When we change environments to support neurodivergent children, everyone benefits. In this preview of Saturday's interview with Professor Adam Guastella from Sydney Children's Hospital, discover why viewing autism as a 'disorder' might be missing the point, and learn how the right support systems can transform outcomes. Plus, understand why insufficient support leads to troubling patterns of bullying and underachievement.
Quote of the Episode: "When people have changed environments to be more inclusive to support children with autism and other neurodevelopmental needs, those environments are really good for everyone."
Key Insights:
Focus should be on changing environments, not just children.
Inclusive environments benefit all children.
Support needs are both environmental and individual.
Better support leads to better educational outcomes.
Lack of support correlates with higher bullying rates.
Academic underachievement often relates to poor support.
Professional collaboration improves outcomes.
Early intervention and support are crucial.
Resources Mentioned:
Brain and Mind Centre, University of Sydney
Self-Determination Theory research
Action Steps for Parents:
Focus on environmental adaptations that support learning.
Build collaborative relationships with support services.
Ensure appropriate support systems are in place early.
Look for ways to create inclusive spaces that benefit everyone.
Would you like to understand autism better? Today? A preview of a fascinating conversation that I've had with a professor from Westmead Hospital and the University of Sydney about autism. Hello and welcome to the Happy Families podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every single day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. My name's doctor justin course, I'm here with my wife and mum to our six kids, Kylie, Kylie. Just recently I've had a discussion with a professor who this guy knows stuff. His name's Professor Adam A. Guestella. He works at the Sydney Children's Hospital at Westmead and the Brain and Mind Center at the University of Sydney and what he tries to do is build collaborative partnerships between researchers and clinicians and services to ensure that kids and families receive the best available assessments and treatments to support well being. He the co leader of the Child neuro Development and Mental Health Team for the University of Sydney. This guy knows his stuff around autism and as you know, there is more and more challenge and more and more confusion around raising children with neurodivergent challenges.
I love how you talk about this idea of collaborative partnerships. Obviously, he's a pretty clever guy. He's got some pretty big letters at the end of his name. But I just love the acknowledgment that it doesn't matter how smart or clever you are, you can't be everything to everyone. And the idea that he is looking at ways to pull in all the goodness that he can to support family specifically dealing with this challenge is just It's powerful.
I love talking to him. On Saturday, We're going to play the full interview, but I know not everybody has time to listen to the whole thing, and some people are sort of going, well, should I or shouldn't I invest I'm going to play this snippet. I asked him a question that I hear all the time, and I wanted to hear the way he would respond to it. I said, when it comes to autism specifically, it used to be known as autism spectrum disorder, but increasingly people are pushing back and pushing back hard against the idea that autism is a disorder or even that ADHD is a disorder, So I asked him how he would respond to that particular query.
The issue in this space really is that it's not all about changing the child, which the term disorder sort of insinuates that it's something we have to fix in a child to get optimal health outcomes. And the answer is certainly not that right. It's about actually going what in the environment needs to change to make the environment easier to learn from, What in the environment needs to change to encourage more cohesive and more supportive interactions with people and better friendships, and also what in the environment needs to change so that people can succeed in achieving the goals they want to achieve. And so the focus is very much on helping the individual, but also recognizing that the environment can change in a huge way as well. And related to that, when people have done studies and change environments to be more or we term inclusive to support children and adults with autism and other neuro own developmental needs, those environments are really good for everyone. You know, all of a sudden, we start seeing improvements in learning outcomes for all the kids in the class, not just the kids that have in your own developmental condition.
I love this I love this. I love this idea that when we suggest that there's a disorder, we're suggesting that something needs fixing. And if we turn that on its head, it's the acknowledgment that our children are broken. And our children aren't broken. The environment that surround them is broken. It's not supporting them in the areas that they need support and to have success. And I just I love that if we were all on the same page with this, society in general would be safer for everyone.
This is one of those things that I have been I guess, banging the drum about for such a long time. We've created a society that is not in the best interests of children's development.
He even acknowledges that he acknowledges that when changes are made to the environment, it's not only the children who are struggling with autism, right that benefit, the entire class benefits.
Got on and this. I talked to him a bit about self determination theory. He wasn't familiar with it, and I said, what do you think and he was like, oh, this is it right. So that means that if we can build stronger relationships, if we can help kids to feel like they're progressing and developing mastery and confidence in these areas, and if they feel like they're in the driver's seat of their lives because they've got some volition, choice, autonomy, they do so much better. And he just like, yes, yes, and yes. When parents say to me, will that book that you wrote, The Pairing Revolution, will that help my autistic child or my ADHD child, My response one hundred percent is yes, because when you create the environment the supportive of their needs, of course they're going to thrive. And that's really what he's getting at. What he was really doing was just endorsing my book. I shouldn't say that, Sorry, Andrew, if you're listening now, There's one other thing that I do have to highlight. Though he's emphasized that environment matters, it's key, but he also did clearly say that our goal is to help the individual as well. It's not either either, and some people are taking it really really hard and saying no, no, no, no, there's nothing the matter with my child. My child's perfect. It's the environment's of the problem. We wouldn't do that to a neurotypical child. We are very much interested in helping neurotypical children to grow and we're quite happy to point out areas where they're not performing strongly and work on remedial interventions and saying, hey, this is an area where you're not doing so great, let's build you up there. When we're talking about neurodivergent children, the same principle applies. We don't just say, well, you're perfect, the environment's the problem. It really is a both and rather than either or.
Well, it's an acknowledgment that we're all individual, right, They're all really unique and we have different ways of learning. And if we understand that and we're able to build a structure that supports that individual space, then of course we're all going to benefit.
The great irony is when you get the environment right and those basic psychological needs are being supported, you become more growth oriented. Anyway, Okay, after break, one more thing that Professor Andrew Gostela had to say that I just got to play you ahead of our full length interview on Saturday. When I was talking to Professor Andrew Costella from the University of Sydney and Westmead Hospital about raising children with developmental needs. We talked about how often it's usually someone like Grandpa Joe or anymored who'll say it's poor parenting, or these neurodevelopmental challenges are not actually a thing.
You're saying it like it's your family members that are often the biggest challenge. But in my personal experience, often it has been the medical professionals who don't agree or don't believe that what you're experiencing is real. And as a parent who was dealing with the day to day challenges that exist with having a neurodivergent child, to be told that there is nothing wrong with them and it's all your fault, essentially, it's such a lonely place to sit, and not only lonely but heavy. It's heavy because you know what you're experiencing on a day to day basis, and you know the challenges that your child is experiencing, and there doesn't seem to be anyone to help.
Asked him how this plays out in terms of what's going on with kids in school and push back against the NDIS and support There are plenty of people who are arguing that we're wasting all of our tax payer money on supporting kids that just need better pairing in that kind of thing. Here's what he had to say.
When you don't provide the right support and you don't give people the needs that they have, then you get poor outcomes. We know that autistic people and people with ADHD have enormously high rates of bullying and schools enormously high rates. They are victims over and over and over again, and it's a consistent story of trauma and dislike of schools in regards to their peers for a lot of young people. We also know that under achievement, particularly in those later years, is very very common in comparison to their cognitive ability. And so if we're happy for people not to succeed and fulfill their potential, if we're happy for people to be excluded and to be bullied in our schools and where happens, for people to underperform and then to have what is often lifelong self esteem issues and difficulties then moving on into other fields, then yes, we should leave things the way they are. Stark.
So, what I love again about this is this actually creates this beautiful framework for what support workers that go into children's homes actually do. It takes me back to a conversation you and I had recently on the podcast where we talked about this notion and idea of not necessarily putting so much energy and effort into our children hanging out with their classmates at the end of the day, but finding positive role models adults in their lives who can benefit them and they can learn and glean from and see different perspectives. And if we look at that with the acknowledgment that often these kids are the ones that are victimized, they are the ones that are bullied, they are the ones that are left alone in the playground, and recognize that we have support workers there to be another safe place, another safe port, another person who's cheering them on from the sidelines. That actually changes the conversation.
You can hear the entire interview with Professor Adam Gstella from both Sydney Children's Hospital at Westmead and the Brain and Mind Center at the University of Sydney this Saturday morning. Great conversation for anyone who wants to know more about neurodivergent needs raising kids who are autistic or who have an ADHD diagnosis. This is a conversation that I just relished. It's a little bit geeky, Kylie, It's an opportunity for two psychology needs to geek out a bit on the academic research, but really really compelling, all about helping with executive function and you know what I'm not. It's just great. Saturday morning, that's when you want to check it out. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. If you'd like more information and resources to make your family happier, visit us at happy families dot com dot um
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