Calgary Audio. I just got off this podcast. I just didn't mom with my sister, and it was this woman who just adopted seven children her their parents died in a car accident and she took all seven siblings in amazing crazy yeah, just on another level. Stood. So how how was she related to I mean, right now people are checking out of our podcast and going to that one and these are airing, so you know, I don't switch over. How how did she know the people who passed away? Or was just just in the news she did it? Was it was in the news. Yes, she heard it in the news and then started the process and then got all seven children. And is right after she raised five of her own, they left the house and immediately, you know, a new seven. That's that's phenomenal. I mean, can you confirm or deny that she lives in a shoe? Um, yes, I can't. It was an old lady who lived in a shoe. I can confirm this had so many kidsn't come from me. Andrew Dice Clay had so many kids. By the way, Dice back then, man, I was a young kid too, and I loved him. I was all about Dice. Yeah, I was too I remember when that that album came out that I feel like came out around the same time the Sam Kennison comedy album came out, and we were like we were on bus trips in school and everybody had their walkman with the cassette tape in it, and everybody's giggling and nobody the teachers didn't know what we were listening to. And I mean that was about as rebellious as I got back Roaring eighties, Oh my god, oh for sure. And then that, you know what I tried to play my kids the other day on the car ride is the Jerky Boys. Remember the Jerky Boys, you know you've talked about that on this show. I think that's bad parenting there there I was in high school. It's not bad parenting because after listening to it, you know, especially for my kids, it just didn't hold up. They checked out immediately, you know, like I've heard this kind of crap. Well, it wasn't as far as crank phone prank phone calls go. For me, it was amazing, you know, shooting pumping balls out of my ass that you're roaring with laughter, and because they're like they're on their you know, on their phones in the back, like, what the hell is this? I'm like, all right, quite so, uh yeah, I've got right now. I mean, this is daddy issues and right now, my wife that's that's Blake. Blake just pulled a knife out. It looked like it's a it's a letter opener, and I've never really understood the letter openers, but he just pulled one out. It doesn't have any sharp edges, but it does have a it does have a point. You can seriously injure him. But my wife, Michelle is out of town, and so I've got the boys and I have help, but they just want to stay next to me. So they're they're upset that mom is gone, and I think they're clinging on to the next closest parent and so here, Yeah, he doesn't look happy. He's boy's been crying because I've been trying to pull away from him for the last half an hour to get on this podcast. And every time I take a step into my office, waterworks screaming, and I'm going one room away. I wish our listeners could see right now. It's just too too cute. It's Joe and his boy, Blake, sitting next to each other. Like he's got this look on his face of like, I'm here, but what's what's going on? And and I'm wearing headphones so he can't uh, he may take this out and put in his brother's neck, which is an issue. But I wanted to talk before Rob gets on about what we did last week, which was one of the most fun days of my life and one of the most frustrating and embarrassing days of my life. And odd the whole thing was the thing, and you have not You and I haven't talked about it a ton, but we were on family feud celebrity family feud, which is a different set than the typical family feud, and we can't talk about what happened because it's gonna air some time in the summer. We do not have an air date, so when we get that we will certainly um pass that along. But the whole thing started, it's like, oh wait, we're starting, and and we start, nobody can I couldn't really hear anybody. Maybe that's because I'm old. And then the whole game unfolded, and the way it ended is gonna be a I think it will be a viral moment. And I'm gonna get just trashed. And we can't go into why, we can't get into the details, but you're not gonna get trashed. There's no way. But it's funny because it started as crazy as it ended. The first category, you and I get up. It's you and I and we do our little button things. Boom, I hit it first. I get the number one answer, but then it just goes way downhill from right there. It Yeah, I just devolved. And we can't say in fact that portion of it will never be seen while reviewing public because we can. We can reveal that there is you won the control of the board, and then your side went through you know you, I guess the next three people all got ex is and there were not enough points to really qualify, so we freaking started the whole thing over. We had to start the whole game over. But that category was weird, man, it was a weird one. You know. Even Steve Harvey was sort of like, when are we going to get this category out of the mix here because the question was terrible. It almost felt like they've tried to have tried it before, and they're like, hey, maybe the Hudson Buck plans. Can I think we would have stolen that one, I think, but we we didn't even get a chance to because there weren't enough points. So I and I can't wait till this episode airs because there's gonna be so much to talk about and so many laughs. And it was great without even talking about the show, the show was really great. And again Joe is right, this could be a viral moment when happens at the end. It's really amazing. But just the everyone coming together, the families coming together, my friends who you really hadn't met, best and oldest you know, and your daughters and your sister and Michelle and Aaron, and it was just a fun, really fun time. But I asked you a question yesterday and now you've had twenty four hours, almost to the minute to think about the answer to this, and that is, let's say you weren't playing my family and you were going to do the same banded thing by bringing three of your friends to join your wife on stage. What am I close enough now that I would have made the cut as one of your three quote unquote best friends. And if so, and if the answers no, then the answer is no. But if the answer is yes, then whose spot what I have taken. Well, this is a hard question because, first of all, you live in St. Louis. But let's just assume that right, no way flan Oday. Well here I I I would say that you are You're there, But I'm not sure who I would give the spot, who I would take out of the mix. I guess you know, I've got John, Jesse, Brian, Alex and Mark Okay does five. I'd have to even kick one of them out. I don't know, man, I don't I gotta be honest and say that you probably wouldn't be me and one of the four it would be. It wouldn't be nice to my my other friends. I guess it's a hard one to answer, you know, I get it. I guess it just says more about the state of affairs from my side of the fence, because I can honestly tell you that, Yeah, if if you were willing, and let's say the show was shooting in St. Louis, would I fly you in? Yes? Would you would you be one of my three to four friends that would join me on stage? I think, well that's that's my answer. Maybe me Harry, Mike McDaniel, Yeah, my friend Ryan man Zick Ryan man Zick on Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Rodgers, but he's busy with Jeopardy, so he would switch from Jeopardy host get you know dip by family feud on his way to offseason training program with the Green Bay PA. But I am excited. But on that subject, I am glad that you got to hang with my friends a little bit, you know. So you and we were included on our text threat. Now you know, it's all come all what I thought they would be. They are very buttoned up. I thought I was. I thought I was gonna it was gonna be Oliver, Aaron and three guys who rolled out of the van was Spaccoli. That's what I thought, man, Mr hand, Yeah, that's what I thought. And these guys were far more interesting, quite frankly, than you. So I I I'm trying now to go through you to get onto a text chain so I can have have separate relationships within and every one of them. I love it too, and they love you. But I will say you were a little you were a little quiet, you know, And if you're tired or I was exhausted, you were okay Because I was sitting next to you at dinner, and I was thinking, man, just a little quiet, And I honestly didn't want to feel like I was leaving you out in any way, because my friends and I have such a back and forth, and I was like, oh, it is Joe feeling like I'm leaving him out? Oh my god, No, not that a little bit, not in the least, but yeah, I don't know. I was tired. It was I didn't get a lot of sleep to night before, and then it was stressful that day and it became a full day because my daughters and my wife and my sister turned it into like, Hey, we're gonna do make up three hours before we go there, and then we're gonna drink champagne and we're gonna have all this stuff. And by the time we got there, I was like, I'm just exhaled. And then and then like we said, I mean the hole and we can talk about this more then. But the whole show kind of started in odd fashion, and it was just a little ambiguous what we were doing. Like I felt I felt naked out there. You're leaving your head a little bit. But you know, it was fun for me to hang out with with Natalie Trudy too, because of course I've known them for a long time, but I have not really got to hang with them. And you've got some clue less girls. And then Natalie stayed with her man after everyone left and we drank more wine and had the great, great time. And and she's she reminds me of you. She's tough, she's brash, she's no bullshit four and you can try to own the room even though she's in it with people who are twenty years older than her. So yeah, totally. Oh, I got great insights as unto you as a dad. And you know how she needs to trying to please you and doesn't want to upset you or make you know, you mean a lot to her. I mean she hung me out to dry everything for her. I know. She's such a great kid. And Trudy is so independent and on her own, and um, she was like a quiet kind of badass. You know. Yeah, it's like you gotta work to get her approval. You have to work to get her. She's not an easy laugh, which I like, uh most of the time. Sometimes I just want her to lighten up. She's a lot like me. Natalie is a lot like my mom in some weird way. But Trudy is most like me, I think. But Natalie worrying about my approval, like my god, you got that on June when you were born. You have my approval. There's nothing you could do, including murder, that would make me bail as as And we've talked about that on this podcast a million times, and she knows that. But I think it's the day today. She's very aware of everybody in the room. And I think mainly, you know, I am of her, I am of her sister, and they are of me. And I think we just worried too much. We talked about it the next day. I talked about you with her, like, you know, I wish I could be more like Oliver and and just kind of let people be. And I can't. I'm trying to manage everybody's feelings all the time. And I and that really it's an unwinnable situation and you just kind of let people be. You may be dealing with your own stuff, that's one thing, but I'm I'm dealing with everybody's crap, especially when my second wife is with my kids from my first marriage and my sister. There's a lot going on in my head that probably isn't even there anymore, but it still gets still gets in there. No. Well, that's like, you know, the part of Natalie that I see that that is of you, is that sort of that I mean, that worry or that holding on too tight. And that's what I was saying to her. You know, we were both drinking right and and she was getting loud and like, Nat, I's like, you just gotta let let it fucking go. You're putting your giving this too much energy. You know, you're doing yourself a disservice. Let it go. You're creating this. It's the same stuff you say to me. Yeah, yeah, I know it was. It was interesting. Look who's in the zoom call? You don't even know because you're on your phone. I'm on my desktop, so I see the beautiful face of Rob Lowe, who's to our podcast. Uh and and I guess appropriately right in front of one of the coolest pictures I think I've ever seen of Rob and as two boys shirtless. That's something I would never do, with their arms crossed looking like badasses. Hi, Rob, how are you hey? I'm good. That's an Annie Leibowitz uh portrait. From a vanity fair thing for that I did years ago, and it just I just love that picture of my guys at that age. So they're now mid twenties. How old are they then, like teenage, like fifteen something like that. Yeah, they're they're both in high school in that photo. My my oldest now is already you know, graduated law school, past the bar, and uh, my youngest is in his third year on writing staffs. He's actually on nine mom. When Lone Star wrote our big episode this year, our biggest episode, it was a crossover. He wrote it. So they're out doing their thing. So you got one in the business and then one who's saying I don't want any part of it. That's right and dialoid. That's exactly what he would say if you asked, I don't want any point? Really, why did you think that's just inherent just natural nature? Or was there a part of him just watching it all happen around him? And he's like, fuck this because I was upon I had that, you know, did you? I? He it's both. He's naturally a man of few words, hates auditioning, and by that I don't mean literally audition. He hates just that notion of having to like charm somebody, like he just wants to be himself. And uh. And then my other son is like, you know a little bit more like me, where he's like happy to come into the room and like be like hello here, and what is it. The three of us on this call are very much that way. I you know, we all do it in different ways too, but I'm always trying to please everybody. Oliver good God, I mean, he's he's kind of the snarky class clown in the back of the room even when he when he's with his family, which is Goldie and Kate and Kurt. Oliver is kind of the cool kid in the corner. But everybody walks away loving him. And for you, Rob, I've seen you in rooms, seen you at upfronts, I've seen you at playoff baseball games and senior NFL games. People just naturally gravitate toward you and and I think the three of us, probably at the end of the day, really are pleasers, which which can kind of get you in trouble sometimes. I think it is, Uh, you have I love people. I do. I I love I'm gregarious in that way and like making people happy and like meeting people, AM curious about them and their lives, and so it makes it easy. I have I feel badly for for people who who end up in the limelight um and then have a hard time with it and like they really hate it. They hate They just are uncomfortable now skin They don't want people bothering them. They don't want to talk to people. And it's not that their dicks, although a lot of them are. It's just that it doesn't come naturally to them, and that would be torture. That would be torture. And you had that seemingly, you know, from from an outsider's perspective, your whole life. I mean you you got into this young. You've you've been in rooms and been around older actors, executives, whatever, you've had to charm people. I would have imagine as you look back, since you can remember, yeah, I've been singing from my supper for a long time. But but but it's not work though, I mean, that's just naturally. It seems to be naturally who you are. I mean, there's a joy that I was putting on you know shows and my grandparents garage, you know, when I was six and seven eight, you know that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to communicate through storytelling. Really, and you know, if you're going to be a storyteller, you're gonna want people around to hear the stories. And your relationship with your dad a good one. He's he was just out here. I just posted on my Instagram just this week, he and I working out of the gym. H he's he's eighty one. Uh. He looks like across between James Cohn and Paul Newman. Uh. And he My earliest memories of my dad when we when we moved out to California, where he would literally stop traffic Beverly Hills when he walked down the street. He is a good looking mofo. Um. And you know he's still practicing law, still working every day at one in Ohio, and uh, yeah, I'm lucky to still have him around. Isn't an amazing rob When you get out into the world and you grow up and you you realize, I mean, you only know your situation. I only knew mine. Oliver new His is very Oliver is very different than mine. And I had a dad that was in the business i'm in now, and I saw how he was to people the same kind of thing. You know, he stopped traffic for different reasons, at least actually because it was like, oh my god, there's Jack Buck. But but then you realize, as you get older, how few people had this relationship with a father that they could look up to and idolize. And in your case, you know, at eighty one, body who's still practicing law can work out with And I mean, what a gift as you. But you don't know that until you get older and you start comparing notes with friends and you're like, Jesus Man that I was I blessed. And it seems trite and cliche, but that is such the case for for for somebody like you, it's it's invaluable. And and as you alluded to, you start to look at that relationship through the prism of the relationship you have with your own kids, and that's when things get really crazy, Like, okay, so how about this. My oldest son, Matthew is the same age my dad was when he had me. That's insane. And I look at Matthew, who I love. He's so well adjusted, and he's so great, he's he's this is not in any way a knock of my beloved oldest son, Matthew. But that kid shouldn't have a kid. What the it's it's mental. But I'm sure you know he could figure it out, you know, if if that came to pass. I mean, you've put enough into him. And that's why I was so glad that you said you would come on this because I see you from Afar, and I see you through social media. I've seen you in a room with with your boys. There is a real friendship there that that I don't see a lot of the time. It's still for a lot of people it remains father son, father daughter. I see you as three guys hanging out and that that is awesome. And to add to that, though, before you answer it, like how do you balance that? Because do you think that that there is a line that you have to walk, especially when they're younger, between dad and being a friend one hundred percent And thanks, by the way, Joe for for for that observation, because that is what it is and that's what it feels like. But and it's the biggest butt in the world when you're when they're when they're in their formative formative years that you don't want to be their friend. Then I mean, you want to be every fiber and your being wants to be. But that's not doing them any good. They got friends, they you need to be that impenetrable wall that is setting the boundaries for them to to be their best selves, because you know kids, kids don't they think they want their freedoms, and maybe they do want it, but what they need are the boundaries. Whether it's appreciate that all the time, it's it's just amazing to hear you say that. They I saw you interrupted. Unconsciously they want that ship. They crave the boundaries. They crave disciplined without them even knowing it, I believe, and that creates respect. I mean, do you know how terrifying it is for a kid to be rolling around their room. It's six years old and it's midnight, and nobody has said to them get in bed. I mean the messages nobody cares. And then and then you've got a whole set of parents or you know, mindset was like, oh, we give him his freedom. You think you know he'll go to bed when his body is taught. It's bullshit, it's gnarly. It's really bad. So with my I was my my boys would tell you that our house was both the fun house to hang out at and the strictest of all of their friends. M hm. So that means you walk that line really really well, because if if you weren't also the friend while you were being strict, they're not going to drag their friends over there to hang out. So you got that validation that that and you need those little you know, I've got two little boys who are three, but I've got one year old daughters, and you need those little moments and those benchmarks to go Okay. I got to this destination in a pretty good spot because my kids still want to be around me, and I'm not a pushover. You know. It's it's, it's and and so many. To me. It gets back to almost being lazy when I see if I'm in an airport and you see these kids that are running between passengers and their people are hurrying the gates and they're tripping over kids, and it's like, oh, I'm just gonna give my kids. Don't look at my kid that way. I'm just gonna now get your fucking kid over there and and tell them to sit down and be quiet. My kids, would I remember you know, we used to have like vases of like M and M's in the house or whatever for they were sort of decorative, but if you know, if you wanted, when you obviously that they hang on ent ent ent ent ent ent ent, So so that kind of stuff would be around the house. And I remember people coming over when we had toddlers and then how do you don't think eat it? Doesn't that get all over the couch? I get, know, because that's mommy and daddy's things. You don't get to run a muck on mommy and daddy's things. You have your things, and you know it's just uh it all it really all pays off, but you do get exhausted. And I think the hardest part about being a parent for me was the just when they're old enough to be smart as hell, charming as hell and lie like hell, and you are and you are just like, oh my god, Um, I just want to I just want to let go and say yes, the stuff that they've been grinding you on. Like the high school years for me were really really tough, really tough. Yeah, talk about that though for a second, because I'm just thinking of myself in my high school years, I got expelled from Crossroads. I ended up working time time out, time time out time. Yeah, well, well, what must you have done, the expelled from cross Roads that I cheated on a test? I didn't even do anything that bad. They called us in with my mother, my mother and myself into the principal's office and and expelled me on the spot. And my mother was on the spot, and my mom was not a happy camper, not with me, but with how they handled the whole situation anyway. I mean, I wrote a letter to get back in my senior year in high school, and I ended up graduating with my class, but I did get expelled. I worked at an agency. I was on my own, homeschooling, doing crazy crazy things with you know, with older assistants, you know, at ci A. I mean, I was in this whole world that my parents knew nothing about. I had the like east, like east of the of DOHENI at night was my like stomping ground at sixteen, and then I lived a whole separate, you know, at home. I'm wonder if they knew what the hell I was doing. If they did, they didn't, you know, we think we know. I'm pointing stuff out right now, to this day, I'm finding stuff out that my kids did, but I had no idea, and we were as hands on why it awake, under no illusions as you can possibly be, and we still didn't know. Gray. I'll never forget. I'll never kid my My first wife and I were separated, and I was the one that moved out, and I come back. My daughter is getting ready for a dance. She's a junior in high school. Senior in high school, and I walk in the kitchen unannounced. My daughter didn't know I was going to be there. And my daughter is pouring out drinks to her friends and looked up and it was like she saw, uh God walked through the door, and and it was like, wait, what I didn't. And so I'm saying that because I don't think my eyes were that wide open. I felt like I cheated the same stuff I did. I tried to be as as straight and narrow as I could be when I was in high school. I know that surprises Oliver. And as as I walk in there, I'm like, holy shit. All of a sudden, she's the bartender, like pouring out these drinks to these kids, and I was like, I better wake the hell up because stuff's going on here that I don't know. So, I mean, they're there. I think they're always doing a little more than you are aware that they're doing. And you just have to hope and pray that you've put enough of an anchor or ballast in there that that they don't get in trouble or they're not getting getting in harm's way, you know what I tell people, So if you have a the smallest inkling, the smallest, most unsubstantiated inkling that your kid might in the most unlikely scenario be doing something, they are doing it. And they're doing it a lot more than you can imagine. Right, right, But but but but when your kids we talked about discipline, but they start to grow up, they go through puberty, they want to experience things. You know that they're going to go behind your back. At what point or do you ever loosen the reins a little bit and and and let them have these experiences and learn for themselves. You know? Do you did you have that with your kids? Well? I did, and on honestly, I don't mean to be overly serious about it, but I really do think that for young men. I don't know, maybe I had boys. I don't really know, and I know that men are different than girls, but for young men from I would say fifteen to twenty, early twenties, literally, job one is just keep them alive. I'm not kidding, And I agree. I agree. And you know that they're gonna be experimenting with drugs, They're going to be experimenting with alcohol. They've got to figure out what their relationship is with that stuff. It's going to happen. Um, it better happen. Um, they better figure it out. And you know, look, I've been sober thirty will be thirty one years next month. And you know I and I'm not speaking out of school. He's very public about it. But I looked at my young son, John Owen, I was like, oh, we're saving a seat for this one. And so I knew. I knew before, he knew way before. And you know, it was all of that thing about trying to get him help and do all these things. And all you can do is sort of try to keep him alive and try to keep them from making any mistake that is irreparable. Did you do you think that's hereditary? Do you buy? I do? And and there's also a theory that it skips generations. I mean, there's all kinds of things, but I think that will we will one day find the gene or whatever the hell it is the strand that shows you. You know, it's like no different than a propensity to be allergic to pollen. You'll be allergic to drugs and alcohol will trigger something in your brain that it that it doesn't in a whole other segment of the population for sure. Hey, if you like conversations with legendary actors like today's episode with Rob Lowe, take a dive into the Daddy Issues archives and listen to our conversations with Hank Azaria. What we discussed everything from Major League Sports, two Hanks times as a TV sportscaster, and Rock Meyer, to fatherhood, raising tweens, and so much more. One of the things that scared me about being a dad was I don't particularly like children. Joe at Oliver, I know you guys, I am not. I'm not a kid guy. Like, oh, wonderful, kids will be there, delightful. I don't like that. Uh, that annoys me. My old cranky. Yes, I love myself. There's like I feel about I said this in the dock I feel about kids a way I feel about people, like most of them are annoying, and every once in a while I run into somebody I think it's cool and I like, you know, and children I know different and uh, my son's you know, he has a couple of friends. I think that kid's cool, but most of them are like, oh god, I literally can't wait to those kids out of my house. Don't go anywhere. We'll be back after a short break with more from today's guest, Rob Low. Did your boys have a tough time or were they just accepting of you and your status in Hollywood as a star, as someone people know and having to deal with that on a day to day basis Because it was different from my sister and I, she handled it much differently than I did. Yeah, I can't even imagine what it would be like for for for you guys, because you've got the double whammy of of Kurt and Goldie, who, by the way, I adore both so much and I have I have, I have such great stories about both of them from the from the day and uh, but um, you know, um, I made the decision early to move my kids out way out of Los Angeles, so Um, we moved up to Santa Barbara. They're really when we moved up here, nobody was here. It was just old people. Uh, you know, it was way before Oprah and Prince Harry. So they're bringing friends home. They're bringing friends home. They were like seventy four years old. Hey meet uh meet cap He he grew up in Chicago. He's been out here for the last forty years. Hanging out with us tonight. There were no there were so they I remember, they would get invited to we can take them into l A and they'd come back and go Dad. We went to Sons house in Malibu and they had a screening room and they showed a movie and Jim Carrey came to it like they might have as well have been raised in Nebraska. Um, and so they but they also knew obviously that you know, they were used to people stopping me on the street. So they had this weird thing of growing up way outside of show business. But because I, you know, I have been doing it for so long, they were also also really used to people stopping me. And it's so fun. They're very codependent about that. It's really fun because um, like they're they're very uptight if I don't, but I always sign an autograph. But if I don't see somebody, or because I'm deaf in one year two by the way, so a lot of times I won't hear people and they say hello and they're like, oh, he's deafinite one year he didn't see you, and they're like Jesus, They're like they very like want to make sure I give every picture, take everything. They like work for the Chamber of Commerce, for my fans. That's great though, it's that's it's cute. I mean, I think that's cute. Yeah, they want people to love their dad and I you know that all it's all intertwined. I mean, if you can hang with them like you do now, and and that makes sense that they would want to make sure that you leave a great impression on whoever comes in contact with Rob Lowe, that uh, that they walked away happy and if they have to help facilitate that, then they will. But you also made a conscious decision right to get them out of l A. I did, and I'll tell you how it happened. You'll you at this because you grew up. You This is in no way a judgment. You grew up in exactly the kind of scenario that I knew what happened to my boys if if I stayed there, and I can remember what happened. My oldest son, Matthew, was about we had to think about preschools, which I don't even consider schools. I guess they are, but it's like, let's get real, it's platoh crayons s so um. And I remember them going, well, your son is only six months old, but you should be on the list for preschools already. And I was like, well, what the six months old? Easy? So and they go and you know who you should talk to to get into the best pre schools is Mike Ovits my god then being the head of CIA, where by the way you ended up working and and I was like, I saw my whole future laid out for me perfectly. It's like Mike Ovits as the gatekeeper to the Plato set at at the at the schools. And then it was like, and then I know I'll end up being the Little League coach, which I was loved it. And I have to worry about whether I'm going to put the Bob Iger's kid in its second base or not, or if I want to pull you know, I'm just making it up David Geffen's kid out of short stuff. And I was like, this is going to be a living hell for me. And we fled. We fled good for you, I mean we We had a similar situation in that Mom met Kurt. Kurt had a place in Colorado. We went to Colorado, fell in love with it, and actually moved up there to get out of l A when we were young as well. And so we went to elementary school for a couple La viears in Colorado. And it changed my my my entire life. It the trajectory of my life. It definitely shifted. I got into nature. I understood independence, you know, figuring shit out for myself, not being afraid. You know, a lot of these big life themes just came flooding into my being from being in the woods. I did the same thing with my kids. I took them out in between gigs. We moved to Colorado for two years. I put them in public school and it was the most amazing two years that we've ever had. I had to come back for work, so it was tough, but I'm trying to just give them a piece of reality. You know, it's the hard thing for both of you guys. If you feel like you're not in the hornets nest of activity in l A and Hollywood and whatever. For you Rob going to Santa Barbara, that's far enough away where it's not that easy to go, oh yeah, I'll be down there and we'll we'll well, we'll agree to a shooting schedule, and then all of a sudden, you know, it's not so convenient. Yeah, for sure, So you can put yourself second there. I think, uh, the reason I ended up doing television in the first place. It's hard to imagine now because television is where everything you know worthwhile really is. But but there was a time when when television was not is esteemed as it was, and you know, and I ended up doing the West Wing a because I thought it was great. But it enabled me to be home at night, because prior to that, you know, I might be gone for you know, eight weeks on a location somewhere around the world, and you know, I gotta figure out I'm gonna slept my kids or not or you know. So the TV thing really was a lot of it was about and and by the way, that's where I've been really almost ever since was being was was able to have a life with with my wife and kids too. Yeah, I know, I know I'm going through that now. It's like, I don't want to go anywhere. I want to sitcom on a stage where I work minimal hours, have a great little time doing that and and just am able to be with my family here. That's that's the goal at this that it shifted, you know, it shifted because you know, you get this creative desire. I want to do something worthy and something that comes from my soul and you know which it's still there. But now I'm forty four and I just want to settle in to my family life. Really, you know, for sure, I get it. I get it. What about growing what about growing up? You know? Um with your family, with your dad, you know them and the rope that they gave you, where they disciplined, Did they understand who you were and what you were going to be and some of the hardships that you might be facing, and how they don't that. So my mom and dad divorced when I was four, so I had my my biological father, my father father who was in the year old video still working out. Um, we had from the time. I have memories of living with him, but they're very foggy, and so my my experience with him is the weekend, the quintessential weekend Dad, and then the you know, we're gonna go on spring break, we're gonna get together. And then in the summers I would go back to Dayton, Ohio and um spend a month there. So it's a really interesting thing when you have that with your dad because it's it's not the consistent day in and day out, and I think it makes it makes for a very different relationship and you know my But to your question, what is kind of amazing about both of my parents was that when I said I wanted to be an actor, and then as I got older and had to make concessions or choices about that, they were so supportive of it. Just down to the fact that I see your wearing your sc hat. Joe. I was supposed to go to usc and instead went and did The Outsiders. Now, if you want to be an actor and you can work with Francis Ford Coppola, that's a no brainer. But now as a parent of myself, yeah, I'm like, wait a minute, hang on, hang on, wallo. So you're not going to go to college. We worked all the day to get in, and you're gonna go and like do this thing with no guarantees and what so. And my parents never put any of the second thoughts at all on me. And I don't know I would be capable of doing that with my own kids. Mhm, right, I know, just to say, hold on, wait a minute. You know, well my mom did that with Kate, you know, because she was just acting out of the womb. She wanted to be on television and being movies from the get go. But Mom was like, look, you can do your plays, do your school plays. When you're eighteen years old. You can make some of your own decisions here, but we're I'm not going to allow you to sort of get into that world quite yet. So she put restrictions on her for sure. That I knew that as the I knew that as the Bruce Paltrow rule because I can remember when Gwyneth won her Academy Award and my kids were young, and I was like, I know, I'm going to cross this bridge. I might as well ask the expert because he raised a great young woman. And he said, oh yeah, I never like going to do anything really until she was eighteen. So that's when people ask about kids and acting. Um, I think when in doubt, that's a perfect that's a perfect rule. But as you look back, think about how fast. I mean, when you're going through it, I'm sure it doesn't feel like this. But as you look back, as you know, a guy in his fifties with two older kids, you look back at the beginning of your career, The Outsiders, Class Hotel, New Hampshire, Oxford, Blues, st Elmo, Fire About Saint Almost, Fire about Last Night. That's all within a three four year period. I mean, that's that's unbelievable too. And and so obviously your parents knew to put money on the right horse because you didn't go to USC and you then you're rattling off movies that like shape my Little St. Louis being back in the day, and you know, seeing these movies. I was talking about it with a friend today. There's so many of these kind of coming of age movies that you were in that I hope that stuff is still being produced because I learned a lot about life, oddly enough from your movies and and kind of the dynamic between you know, a guy and a girl, and in your case a lot of times a guy and an older woman, which happened quite a bit in movies that you were in. But but it was important to me. And I hope that's I assume that stuff is still being made, but I guarantee you it's not at the level that you were making it. I mean, you had a lot of a lot to do with who I am as a kid, who I was as a kid. I thank you, man, I love I love hearing that. And you know that that that time was really different, right There was you know, there were three networks on television, that's it. Movies were still movies, and you know, it was the beginning of the celebration of youth in uh in in the world. You know, like now everything is geared towards a fifteen year old boy. Then it was very specific group of movies only guaranteed the fifteen year old boys, and I happened to be in them, so it occupied it. We had a sort of free shot on goal because there was no one else doing it. There was no c W. You know, there was no there was none of that stuff. There wasn't glut, is what I'm saying. Of coming of age. Stuff that speaks to young people today. That's all that there is. Really, there's nothing that speaks to people our age now and the old days it was. It was reversed. But but am I the get off my lawn guy? Or do you do you look back at that body of work and go got you know? That was some really good stuff like it? It holds up if I come across sat Almost Fire now I'm not moving my clicker from Saint Almost Fire, or about last night. I mean, I would imagine about last night is on people of Mom fifty about to be fifty two people on my my age that's on their top ten list. It doesn't matter what you do in life. You could be a teamster and you still call it a clicker. You still call it a clicker to exactly, Yeah, clicker exactly. So I mean I just think that stuff and maybe just because it's it's in my wheelhouse that I think back on it. But do you look back. Do you come across that stuff ever and you look back on your young self doing these movies going it's really it's pretty damn good. It wasn't hard. Look some of it's painful because I was still really learning my way around acting, you know, and uh, you know, you just grow so much, you I mean, you grow as a person, you're going to grow as an actor. So I'm a young kid. So I'm a young actor, which means I don't know a whole lot about much. But but but particularly about last Night, I think anson almost they just occupy a place in people's in the zeitgeist at that time, and I'm I'm really, I feel like, really fortunate and proud that I was able to be in those I mean, ironically they're not. I mean, my favorite movies at that time are like Breakfast Club, which I auditioned for, by the way, and didn't get. It's the only John time for me? Did you get no time for me? Yeah? How are you not in? How are you not in a in a John Hughes movie? I don't gonna understand. I think that if you ask most people, they would think that I would be have been in a John Hughes movie. He had no time for me, zero. I he was not selling whatever or buying whatever I was selling. I don't know why. I have my theories on it. Well, I know what my theories are. I was already I was already famous, and John only used people that he famous, you know, Copola. Coppola was that to me, so um, I think that's what it was. But any but regardless about the Breakfast Club is a fucking amazing movie. It really watched recently. And by the way, I just watched Outsiders because my kid is in seventh grade. He's reading the book, read the book, and I'm like, all right, let's watch the movie. I love that the people every year, I I there's a whole crop of seventh graders that discover um, the Outsiders and therefore discover me, which is an actor like you will want to You want to stay relevant and have young people into your stuff. And I just had this annuity with the with the Outsiders that every year every seventh grader is forced to spend time with my nineteen year old performance performance on me when I was nineteen. It's older than that. Now, Hey, how much how much does does did? How much the sports you know play into the relationship with your boys? I mean, is that a sports abou an important component? Joe can tell you that what with massive baseball fans my boys and I are, we can We flew to Houston for the Dodgers World Series. I think it might have been last time you and and I hung out a little bit, Joe and um, we went to opening day rings ceremony. And you know it's that cliche about baseball, um, sports in general, but baseball in particular, of it is a is a generational thing passed down father's son. All those cliches are true. I can only imagine what it's like for you, Joe, to be in your father's footsteps and and and to be in the booth And it's just it's always your Dad's always going to be a part of that, always, no matter what he's going to be around. And when I go to a baseball game, it's with me and with my kids, And I think about my dad watching the Reds and back in Cincinnati, and um, you know, or the Lakers. You know, that was another big thing for me. My other son is a bigger Laker fan. Um. But we love our sports, big sports family. Do you find yourself still parenting your kids even though they are a little bit older, and do you think that will ever go away? And in your does your eighty one year old dad still parent you? Here's what's interesting and m H, I look, Mike, at eighteen, I believe our kids are old enough to go go out and fight in a war. I think I think it's a team, right, So you've got a transition. You have to you have to give them that respect of their adults. And it's hard, it's really hard on to speak for myself, it's really hard for my wife. Like the only fights my wife and I have today is that she it is almost impossible for her to see these men as men. And you know, we that's an ongoing thing that we talk about because I now have come to a place and I think it's really necessary where I will let them fail. That's hard to do, even when you know that they're going to meaning, Okay, I know what. I know that I know the outcome, but I'm gonna let you have this one and feel it yourself. Well, here's a here's a there's a perfect one. It's I'm going to digress into something I'm sure we'll run within a minute. So we did celebrity family Feud this week. You were on right after us, You're right after Did you know it was on right right after I've only found out afterwards. I know, I'm like, well, where's Rob, Well, the cool thing was and I'm stopping your story, but this this leads to another thing. You've been married forever, you're still romancing your wife. Your wife is a huge family feud fan, as is my wife as a huge and so you tricked her into thinking that you guys were going for an interview and you walk in. We were around long enough to see you guys walk on stage and to see her face kind of like, oh my god. It was just so cool. And for somebody who's been two people who've been around Hollywood and that kind of stuff their whole lives, to see two people get into family feud like that was so cool. But you're still you know, they moved everything they were in on the surprise for your wife. I just thought that was so cool. They were thank you. It was in my wife is hard to surprise and impossible in fact, and I pulled it off. She had no idea until she was standing on the set of Family Food and which just to say that she's a fan of that show is an understatement. I mean, every night, you think the last thing I would hear would be good night, honey from my wife, it's actually Steve Harvey's voice yelling surveys. But so my my my thing about letting my kids fails. I I told John Owen, I told both of us, said listen, they're not they don't know nothing about Family Feud. I was like, watch some stuff on YouTube, get acquainted with the show, so you know the rules. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Matthew, being the diligent lawyer, did John Owen, being you know whatever, did not. I knew he didn't. I knew he didn't. I was like, I said, dude, don't, don't suck us get like, of course he didn't. He shows up to Family Feud having never seen it, no idea what it is. I think that's and thinks that's fine, and so inevitably there's that moment where it's like you're a person to person and you've got to hit the buzzer. The people were playing with hit the buzzer flamed out John and Owen didn't know it would he would have a chance to answer a second question, so he didn't even think of anything. And I'm like, this is what I'm saying. It's like I'm telling you he's I have one kid that if I say it's raining, if you go outside, you're going to get wet. He doesn't believe it until he goes outside and gets wet. That's who my youngest son is, and when he was younger, I had to force my knowledge and boundaries on that. But he's a man now and now I let him walk out and get wet. Mm hmm. Wait till Cheryl sees our episode because she's she's not going to think much of me. Are Our episode ended in the biggest flame out of and we can't talk about it. We can't talk about it because it hasn't aired, and there they kind of swear you to secrecy, although they really don't, but for the purposes of of not revealing how it ends. It's just not pretty. We started out talk about not pretty. It was literally you were watching oh oh okay, you remember game Game seven Dodgers against Houston Astros, where there was literally it was a humiliating, mortifying nowhere to hide all eyes on you want to dig a hole. That's where we were. We were down. You were you were I was you you darvishum except nobody was giving the other side the signs. Right, there's no there's no trash cans, no trash can, no trash can there should have been, but we managed to come back. And I will only say that the whole thing came down to one do or die question for me. Wow, so did our kind of and I had to get fifty points on one question or we were done. I'm not gonna say what happened. It was really fun the game show. God's really smiled that day because it took a ship on me, so they literally opened up and yeah, I needed the raincoat your son should be wearing to to go walk outside and get shipped on, because it was not. But we'll just leave that for another day. Uh. If you're enjoying this episode of Daddy Issues, which you should be, because if you're not, then you have problems. You know what starts that over? Don't take the word if out of that. Okay, so you do. Hey, listen, you're enjoying this episode of Daddy Issues. Yeah right, you're enjoying it. Don't keep it to yourself. Share the love, tell a friend about Daddy Issues. Go subscribe on the Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If I sound angry, I'm not. I'm just push gently pushing you. Stay tuned. You don't want to miss the rest of our conversation with Rob Low coming up right after this short break. Are you having more fun now in the business than you ever have doing doing the show and kind of picking and choosing and I'm sure producing and piecing things together than you did when you know you were rolling back in the eighties. I did. I mean, I think part of it is where my career is at and and sort of also my worldview where it's at. And I just I'm knocking on on wood right now because I have the job. I love, I work with collaborators, I love by making a show that it's hard, by the way, it's hard to have a hit, and this is this show is a fucking monster beast hit. And um, and I love that that. I mean, that's not nothing because I've had, you know, other shows I love that just don't find an audience. Um, so that's really fun. Um didn't you didn't you turn down Gray's Anatomy? Is that real? That is real? And my wife never lets me forget it. I'll never show keeps talking about all the time share planes we would have and uh, you know, but you know it's really weird about that is if I had to go and do it again. I probably with the same information that I had at the time, I would have made the same the same choice, because you just don't know. Um. But and then you know, the other thing is like I've had I done Grays, then I wouldn't have done Parks and rec And I love that show and that's been really important in my life. So you just, um. Peter Goober, the great who you may have known, the great executive and business mind and ran a movie studio now is running world series titles with the Lakers and an owner of Golden State Warriors. He's one of the smartest men I know. And he made a chart of all of the movies he passed on and all of the movies he made, and if he had reversed the decisions, he would have been in exactly the same place. And that's sort of what I where. Yeah, And I think about that a lot. And I think that at the end of the day, if you're around long enough, granted, if you only have two or three opportunities in your life, you better choose right. But if you're around a long long time, the yeses in the nose are going to equal themselves out and I really do believe that, But Sheryl Lowe does not. She have you made made have you made choices though, based on your family and your kids being like, Yeah, in another world, I would love love to do that, but sorry, I have different priorities now, oh for sure, things that are things that involved like right now, Look, I'm just, for example, if it shoots in Canada, I'm not doing it. I'm not going up there and quarantining for two weeks and then quarantining for two years coming out. I'm just not doing it. And um so there's you know, it's it's it's all for me around travel and time away from the family. But here's the big butt. My my kids were empty nesters, Sheryl and I, but with COVID we're not. But if all things being equal, you know, I do have more freedom to do the things that I would have turned down previous to being an empty nester. Yeah. I was actually gonna ask that because I mean, just in my situation, I've got three kids. I've got thirteen eleven and seven, two boys, little girl, and my number one priority in my life is being a father before work, before anything, you know. And I do feel though that I have so much of my brain capacity is filled with my children that once they do leave, I think I feel like I feel like my creativity will sort of open up and I'll have more room and just more time to explore things. I mean, did you feel that like once the kids actually left, as sad as it might have been, you've you've been opened up to do more. Oh and it's and that is the great gift. And it's kind of exhilarating. I mean, not kind of exhilarating, is exhilarating. So all kinds of things that I've always wanted to do, Um, just down to stupid stuff Like I I quit golf when my kids were born. I couldn't see my way away from from them on the weekend. I want to hang out with my boys at the beach or do whatever, and we'll be on golf course. So I took golf up again. Um. And by the way, Joe, we gotta play at some point. Yeah, I know we we whiffed in in October, and I know we've got to do that. So I got back into Gulf. I started doing t M transcendental meditation. I'd always heard about it, wanted to do it. I've been doing that, which has been really fit, and just like you diligent on that? Are you diligent on that? Because I have a friend who taught my wife and me, and I see it. I see the benefit, and my god, it's hard to get up, you know now with these little boys, to get up a half hourly, get out of bed, go somewhere else, do it or find time a night or sometimes twice a day. I mean, are you diligent with it? Now? I'm diligent once a day every day, for sure. They obviously you're supposed to do it twice a day, and I'd say, um, I might miss a day here and there. But it's easy for me because I have the big commute. And you know, one of the beautiful things I've learned about TMS, you can do it anywhere. I mean I and I do it. You know. I'm get driven into work and I just in the back of the car and I from Santa Barbara and you go down, you go to you go to work. That that's how you go. When I did the West Wing, I commuted every single day. Eventually eventually and drove myself. Eventually I got a place. But I but I don't like being there. I try to. I mean, I will come back and forth, no problem. The only time I won't do it is if I'm last up and then first up the next day. I won't do that. That's crazy. But I'm in the car so much, so much travel and um, and then on the set if I'm working, you got twenty minute blocks all the time waiting for them to do the lighting setups. So for for me, the TM really actually kind of works out. Let me answer a question about that, because I've been meditating forever and it goes on and off, but it's not t M. And uh, I'm of course I'm a massive Stern fan, and and I know that he does it, and he's the one who's sort of back into day even enlightened me to it. But do you have to have somebody to give you a mantra? Or how do you start TM? Can you just read? I mean, I I don't know, maybe you can. But everybody that I that I respect on it, and I had and I had ended up on a on a ski trip with Jerry Seinfeld of all people who I love and admire but didn't really know very well, and we started talking about it. He's been doing it forever. And what he said to me was, I have never been professionally exhausted ever in my career because of t M M. And I was like, whoa, I'm professionally exhausted every day. And think about his schedule with when when he's on the road and doing multiple shows a night, and that that's I mean, you can't say anything better about transcendental meditation than that. And so I then my Joe, our mutual boss, Charlie Collier at Fox, as a gift for my birthday, got me a t M instruction and I so, I I think you do have to have there's the David Lynch found and there's a bunch of different places to do it. It's the they teach ten year old to do it. It's the easiest thing imaginable. Do you get their quote unquote do you do? You get? You know? Do you drop in and you do kind of leave you sometimes you don't. And the whole point of it is you don't judge it. That's the thing is if it's if it's hard, you're doing it wrong right. If if stuff starts getting in or your mind starts to wander, that's okay. Not only not only is it okay, it's a good sign because when you when you drop out into the level of transcendental not thinking whatever you want to call it, the and you then come out of it, you've got thoughts. It's not bad. You didn't screw up. It's it's that you're you're transitioning. Something got fixed, you got what you needed, and now you're back consciousness. And it's always going to be in a wave, an up and down wave. That's that's the nature of the beast. Ali, I've got the guy for you. I'm gonna send him over. I'm gonna give you that for your birthday because it does come with a bit of a price tag. And I'm I'm I'm glad that that Charlie got that for you. As we're winding down and we've got like five minutes left, Um, I've talked on this podcast about the fact that I've had eight hair transplant surgeries. I'm headed for my ninth. I got light bo last year. Yesterday, I got a light bo touch up in my low belly. I am staring at at like a fifty seven year old fucking embryo on the other side of the zoom call. How in the hell do you maintain your glow? Now, I'm not a drug guy, but I'll drink my face off when we and and so that's one thing that's got to go. But I'm looking at like, you know, the son of of a lamb coming down from heaven. So how do you? How do you? How do you keep this freaking glow? You look? You look like you're you're ready to go back on set for the Outsiders for God's sake. Oh you're two nice first, So I I want to do a deep dive about hair transplants. I literally watched the Bosley ads uh like like entertainment. I'm obsessed with him. And there was a moment in time I'll never forget it when uh I was doing a big photo shooting out first season of West Wing, so two thousand and one, and I was like, oh, wait on a minute, what is happening of what? This will not stand? And I hit that fucking Propecia so hard, bro, like I'm on a I am on a Propecia drip. Yeah, I was the only kidding. Hi school, It's like, oh, hold on a second, let me take my propitia before calculus. Yeah, listen, this this we can't have this go No, I mean, no one wants to see that. I would kill I would literally, I feel like I'm a nice person. I would kill somebody for your hairline. I would kill him. They wouldn't find him. There's a Hudson over there, you know, can see. I mean, look at that he's got Yeah, but he's kind of you should have been in Gray's Anatomy with that hair. Yeah, where was your agent when you needed him? Look at that? Look at that? Patrick Dempsey mop you got it is a mop. But you know I saw I saw Buck the other day for family food and now he's pointing out look at the forehead line. It's it's a nice hairline, but it starts. It's it starts, you know, it starts like around the second row. I'm not doing not going to your fucking guy. It's not happening. There's no chance. You know, I'm not telling you to do anything my hairline, right, Look, answer the question, Rob, I've seen you with with the freaking diet, like the Mediterranean diet or whatever that thing is. You know, it's the it's the Atkins. It's by the way, it's it's been around forever. It's the it's not even a diet. It truly isn't a diet, cause when you think of a diet diet, it just means you're gonna stop at some point. It's a it's a limited thing. I eat the Atkins way I have, which is look, it's it's low carbs, low sugar. But I also a minute for the long haul. Like listen last night, when the sun goes down, all bets are off for me. Sadly, like during the day, I can be all over it. The sun goes down and it's like DAWs, you must eat it. Okay, I'll tell you what I've what I've been doing. Um Uh. Jimmy Kimmel, you remember Jimmy was like Doughey and Tubby for a long time, and all of a sudden I was like, so he was he does the intermittent fasten and UM, I got into that. So I've been doing that. Um. But mostly it's it's eating, you know, eating well, drink a lot of water. I don't um. I work out like a fiend, and and then I have I've got you know, my dad looks greezy one years old. A lot of it is genetic do you think do you think addiction transfers, meaning if it was drugs or alcohol, then it can become religion, it can become fitness, you know. I think that that's part of sort of how it works. I mean, I have an addictive personality. I need a vice of some kind. I can't know without advice, you know. Yeah, I the hardest part about working is the hours on loan start and thank god it's a physical part. Is I am not in my right mind if I if I don't consistently work out really hard and um uh, it's it's it just is brutal for me. I have to left to my own device. Is I do something every day, maybe multiple it's you might say it's not manic. I'm not going to say it's that, because it isn't. I'm doing t M how gonna be manic? But but it most people can't keep up with it. You're a big enough star there will they will drag all that ship to wherever you're shooting and you can have it there too. Right. Yeah, it's hard for me though, to do to work out for twenty minutes and just I don't need to like well, COVID shut the gym down on the we can't do it with COVID. I used to do that, Like, um, every lunch break, I would work out. That's what I used to do. You're right, cardio or weights? Like where do you where do you need your intensity? Is it through weightlifting or just hardcore cardio stuff. So that's changed a little bit as I've gotten older and as we as the science has evolved, in the thinking changes and you know, every every ten years is a new way to think. And um, I have to watch about staying in the junk zone. And the junk zone for me feels like where I want to be, where it feels like I'm fucking grinding. I'm like, but it's not in that zone too long since I'm not I need to be either lower or higher, but not in that that zone. So I used to think people who are walking or pussies. Turns out walking is awesome and that is the best way to burn fat. And so I need to be doing something that seems to me like I'm not working out at all. It seems like a waste of time. It's not. And then do pick my spots where I beat the ship out of myself. God, I need to be more like I'm gonna go walk, I'm gonna we all do I look, and by the way, you huff you doing that heavy breathing, and that reminded me of Tea with Mrs McGill, which I think that helped me through my my high school lonely years. So thank you for that. Rob really appreciate that. The the I always know a hockey fan when they talk about Tea with miss McGill. You, but just that something about the way when buck when I when I shot that scene that that actress, I felt like she was eighty. Yeah. I look back on it and realized she was maybe in her late thirties, right, No, I know, perspective shifts. Yeah, maybe that's why I've always had a thing for kind of older women. I think I might have to blame you and miss McGill for that. I'm listen, there's nothing wrong with that. It's sticking. Uh well, you gotta go and uh man this we could talk to you all day obviously, but I just I'm such a fan and uh I'm such a fan of what you do, what you do on screen, but but I'm a bigger fan of what's behind you right there. Which is you and your boys and the way you carry yourself. I'm glad you're at Fox. I'm glad we actually have instead of I used to joke that, you know, we would get tickets for the World Series at Fox, but all of our stars were animated, and you know, it's just nice to have a living, breathing human actually on camera instead of, hey there's Marge Simpson down behind home plate. Now we've actually got Rob Low and uh lone star. So good. I love it, Thank you, thanks, thanks you. This was great, man, This is great. I love talking to you. I feel connected to you in the way that you're raising your boys and raised your boys in the way that I do it with my kids. You know, I just not to get into a whole other conversation, but I feel like we're entering this coddle zone with our children these days, and it's not a healthy place to be. We need to get back more to understanding that they need discipline, they need structure, you know, And it's nice to hear that that's the way you think and that's the way that you did it. It worked out for me for for sure, and and it's great to to talk to you both both of you guys, and Buck you know I love you, and Oliver Man I listen. I please give my love to everybody in the Emily um you know. And and just took Kurt that a week doesn't go by that we don't watch Bone Tomahawk. God it's so good. I mean, yeah, yeah, for your listeners, for your listeners out there, if you can handle it. Mr Kurt Russell, it's a bit gruesome, but god, it's good. Real quick. Sorry, But before we get out of here, though, how how are you digging your podcast? I mean we're doing it and was doing it since since you since you brought it up. I want to know, I love you. With the hand mike, what is the handmike, it's very vegas. I notice you do it. I Unice, you've done it. You do it with your podcast with your sister. Um am I missing out? Do I need to go to the hand knife? I like it. It's freeing. I can do this, and you know, hes just need He has literally gone to take a piss and while we're interviewing somebody and he drag all that into the bathroom. He needs to be mobile. I would try. I love doing my podcast. I thought I might like it, it turns out I love it. I absolutely love it, and more than anything, it's kind of like I wrote to memoirs, and I feel like the podcast is taking it to the extra step where if, like I think, without getting too high salutint about it, I think that at the core of people who want to do what we do is we're storytellers. We're communicators, and we want to be seen and not literally seen, but understand, understood, understood. And if you if you cannot get through a podcast without revealing who you are, that's what's great about It's not like being on Ellen or not like being on Oprah, CBS Morning News. Anybody can fake their way and they do through those appearances. You're a podcast host or a podcast guest, you will be found out. And that is what I love about podcasting that it really literally with Rob Low, and literally is a word that people in my family, my daughter Natalie and my wife Michelle really overuse. Y do I start, I blame myself, I blame I blame me. Well, thanks man, I really appreciate it. This is really fun. Thank you guys. Thank you, And if you, if you decide to play golf, invite me if you want to get smoked, because Ali's playing good right now. So yeah, we'll make this happen. We got this is this is a good foresome with Collier right here, that'd be great. Yes, okay, and we'll get then we get Ali. We'll get Ali a show on Fox by the turn. Yeah, I'm there, alright, alright, alright, thank you later. Man. Uh Rob is a good dude, man, very cool guy. Yeah. The guy he has seen it and done it all and he has come out of the other end of that and he is so well put together. It's it's remarkable that that's somebody that that that got in you know, eight three I think is when yeah, Outsiders three. And honestly, I've never I've met him here and there, but I've admired the way from Afar, the way that he has raised his boys and his relationship with his kids. You know, you see it in little pieces that he does or you know, NFL stuff for interviews, and you can just feel the bond there, you know, And I just I dig him. I think he's a good a good dude, really really really nice man. And I really hadn't put it together in my mind, but it's true. I mean, if you think you know. I was born in sixty nine, so when The Outsiders came out, I was fourteen. Class was another coming of age movie. I was fourteen. Oxford Blues another one. I was fifteen. Someonelmo was fire. I was sixteen. About Last Night I was seventeen. So those were like the Wheelhouse years of me putting all that stuff together and watching these movies was a part of it. My wife was just you know, when we were on she was like, you know, she was right behind me, not on screen, but she's like, is that Rob Low? It's Robb Low. I'm like, yes, I mean, you know she was in love and the posters on on her wall when she was a kid and the whole things. She's all giddy. I'm like, well, do you want to come in say hi? Whatever? I think she wanted to, but you know, she was all nutty back here. Uh huh. Well he's just a nice person, so good for him, and uh and good for us. We got another big guest. I don't know how that happened, but we got them. Yeah, it's all you, Joe, You're not. I had nothing to do with that. I had nothing to do with it. No, all right, well should we end it? Yeah? Goodbye, goodbye. Listen to Daddy Issues on the I Heart Radio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daddy Issues is a production of Cavalry Audio and i Heeart Media, produced by Margot Carmichael, sound engineering and editing by Josh Wendish. Executive produced by Joe Bach, Oliver Hudson, Dana Brunetti, and Keegan Rosenberger.