I'm always so fascinated to see what you're wearing and how you're presenting yourself. Every time you pop up on my zoom screen. You look exactly the same every time. It's like you look like Master of Disguise with the stocking cap. The beard is more full, uh, and you look a little trimmor Have you kept kept kind of working on yourself a little bit? Yeah? Yeah, this week has been pretty money. I've been eating well, drinking celery juice in the morning, just shipping everywhere. It's good running while running, Yeah, I wear a diaper. Um no, but it's been good. And I just got back from a camping trip actually, which was awesome. I was gonna ask about that. So, in the age of coronavirus and quarantine, you can go camping and I'm assuming, knowing you the way I know you, there was no tent involved. This isn't like, let's sleep out under the sky. First of all, that's like an insult if you don't. But am I right? Yes? Okay? But I do I camp under the stars? What do you mean? I'm like, I'm like a mountain man, you know. Oh? Really? Is that how you can see yourself? You see me as like this bourgeois like you know, yeah, you're kind of you're you're you you poor tend to be low maintenance, but you can be high maintenance. You're way more high maintenance than I am. But anyway, so no, it was a cabin. It was called El Capitan, and it's sort of glamping ish um but not crazy. You know, there's no like, there's no like room service or ship like that. There's canvas tents and and uh, it's every other every third place was rented out, so you're automatically socially distancing. You know, did you mean, did you meet some new friends? You know, you don't even really see anybody. That's what was so great about it, And it felt like sort of you know, the real world a little bit. We made you know, camp fires, and we cooked over the fires, and we brought all over own food, and you know, then we what we walked down to the beach. It's near It was near like a sort of a state beach. The state beach was a little scary because there were there were people on it, but I will say that everyone was sort of doing a good job of staying away from each other. But it was beautiful man, it was just nice to get out. Good weather. Do you have nice weather, amazing weather, just super fun. Kids had a blast. I'm happy for you because during this entire time, you've been so frustrated with the fact that I can lawfully go play golf. I go to balls, I can get outside, you can if we as long as we socially distance, and I can stand on the driving range and and just practice my golf swing, something that you and I love doing. And I've been able to do that. So I'm actually in a selfless mode today, and I'm happy for you that you got a chance to go out and feel somewhat normal. It was nice, It was nice, It was it was very good. And then we had a zoom call with we had a little zoom drink with Michelle and Aaron. Oh yeah, that was man, that was dangerous because that was two hours. But we're in St. Louis, you're in l A. So we got on you know, typical Hudson planning. We're supposed to get on at a thirty our time, six thirty year time. That kind of seven. I don't care, it's that's not the point of this. The point of that is Michelle and I have been drinking why and until you guys showed up. Then we drank more wine waiting for you guys to show up. Then we drank wine while we were talking to you, and at the end of it were like Jesus, we staggered back. Yeah, I love I love Michelle. I love how no bullshit she is and she just can just and she could just annihilate you and just rip you apart without fear. I love it. It's so great. She's not She's just unafraid to say things that why would she mean? Why would anybody I'm married to be afraid to say because she reveals private things about your relationship and certain things that you did in certain words that you may or may not have called her, you know what I mean? Like, Oh, I'm no, I'm just saying like, she's so candid and open and and she's great. She's she is everything I'm not. She is candid, open, she's patient. I am not. I'm a fifty one year old dad with two kids that are two and my patience is at a one on a scale of one to I'm gonna one by the end of the day. I'm shot. Like I try to work out I try. I get up at six o'clock in the morning. I can't. Why do you get up at six in the morning. That's that's when they get up. I'd love to not get up at six. I'd love to, but it's it's we're on their schedule. As you know, you've been there. Yeah, I know, yeah, dude, I I'm just I'm flat ass tired at the end of the day. But it was nice. Yeah it wasn't. And uh you had a nice little romantic session after that, right, yes, yeah. And actually Michelle wanted me to ask you on this podcast. Now that you say that, I'm glad you brought that up, because she actually had a question like ask Ali the ask Ali segment. We should do that. If if a great night, if a great session, if a great love making, whatever, tet tet uh can cover for the fact that you know you're not going at it every day? Can you can you live off what was a crazy grade night longer than you can live off just mundane? Yes? Ye see, that's a great question. It is because um, I think probably I can only speak for myself. It's there's a conundrum with Folt with this for me, and I'm not saying this is every man or every person. But for me, if I have a great sex session, there is a satisfaction, yes, but there's also more of a desire. I get more fired up, Like the next day I'll be like, oh, so good, and then I want it more and more. So it's sort of like it's a double edged sword for Aaron, you know, because if it's on it, if it is just like on another level, like wake up, I want it more, it sort of lights the fight. Yeah. Yeah, so it's her job to make it like pretty good, you know. Yeah, that's a nice that's an interesting balance she has to find. Yeah, she's got to find that balance of like, you know, that was pretty good. But if she if she takes it to like a holy ship off the hanging off the shape, then she knows that it's she's screwed, like figuratively and literally for the next week, because I get I get all, I get all juiced up, you know. But it's I think that's I think that's Every couple has a different feeling about that. Um. But but quality over quantity, I would say, for sure, just generally so, I've never been less psyched that both my daughters listened to this podcast. It's like when I went on Stern for the second time and Michelle was there, and then she came in the studio and that was that was surreal to be there at Stern as the main guest and be having been asked back, which was a great compliment for for you know, a guy who's admittedly not a huge sports fan in Howard, and then to have him bring her out and there we are talking about our sex life. My now almost twenty four year old was like, oh my god, God, that's just like that's does do they do they not act kindly to sort of you're hearing about your sex life? Like, did they listen to this show? To listen to our show? Yeah, my daughters are obsessed with the show. They and you know, they were already fans of just about everybody we've had, but Nikki Glazer was already And did they did they not? Like when you're talking about your sex life for your penis, you know, we really haven't. I usually definitely step away from that part of the conversation. I let you kind of go there and and I just watch from the bench and and in this case, I'm the one bringing it up. Because it was a question posed by my wife, star of ESPNS Monday Night Football. So you don't you don't want to talk about your penis, like that's as an off limit, off limits topic for you. I don't really think anybody's that interested in and my penis, Oh you said it or yours or sims for that matter. I now though, now that I know that that that Trudy and Natalie sort of listened to it a lot, I just it's gonna be my goal just to make them as uncomfortable as that's fine. As long as they know that it's like a thing that you're trying to do, then that's good. I think if it's just me over sharing for the sake of oversharing, or to be a little bit more open then I typically might be, then then it's a different thing. Do you think your girls like me or you more? On the podcast, they're like they think they like what you're doing or what I'm doing? Or is it just we're a team. I think we're a team. I think we're good. Uh, we're good. Yang and Yang. Here, you're you're Oscar, I'm Felix, You're you're Tannil, I'm Captain Share I'm Sunny, I'll be share your Gopher. I'm Doc. I'd be a better share than you, And now you're Doc, I'm Gopher. You'd be a better share. I know. That's why I said your share and I'm Sunny. That's the only reference that I even I knew Captain Taniel and Tanill. But like the other ones, Gopher dfrom a love boat. You're not that. Yeah, I know, but you know I'm Mr Work your tattoo, got it. I'm going through the whole CBS Sunday Night right like I'm Yes, I'm Tim Conway. You're Harvey Corman from The Current. I thought it was gonna be John Travolta. You're John Travolta. I'm horse Shack. Hey. So this week was an interesting week because I found out that by going on Andy Cohen's show and talking about sports coming back and how it will theoretically look on television and sound, I think even more importantly from where I sit on television, I said the same stuff on Andy Cohen and his radio show on Sirius that I've said for literally the last month, whether it's been on this podcast, I said it on HBO Real Sports, which should be the biggest stage that you could talk about this kind of stuff on, and me saying that Fox and I think all networks will put some kind of ambient crowd noise under a broadcast was like mind blowing the people. And then I said, Fox is working on having it looked like there's a crowd there, um and and I meant it. They are, and they're working on a hundred things, probably ninety of which will not come to fruition, look right, feel right, sound right, whatever. But it just blew up everywhere. And then all of a sudden, I'm the spokesperson for Fox and coming back to TV with sports, and that's the last thing that I wanted. My point of it all is you just don't know when you say something. And again I've said this for over a month publicly, when it's gonna have it's gonna get a reaction. It just made it just made no sense to me. I know, well, you're you're you're in a in a precarious spot because you essentially are the face of you know, sports in that you're the one who has inside scoop and you're the one who's going to be broadcasting, so you are the end all as far as. Oh, if Joe Bucks says it, it's probably true and so you know, but but whatever, like, who do you really get in trouble with with this kind of a thing, You know what I mean, I care. The only people I care about, honest to God, are the two people that I really answer to at Fox Sports being Eric Eric Shanks and Brad Zagger both were totally fine with me saying that. In fact, I've been on ad sales calls talking about and being teed up by my boss to talk about this very topic and saying the same things that I said. Uh, but yeah, PR kind of got upset like um sharing state secrets or I've gone rogue or whatever. And it's just it's just a bunch of nothing. I mean, because that should be obvious every network right now with you know, we just saw this this golf event, and it's it's it's a nerving a bit to have no crowd reaction to a big event that you're watching on national TV. So there's there's gonna be trial and error, and there's gonna be what feels right and what does it That should be obvious, I mean, that should be baked into putting something on that's entertaining and uh important to sports fans to watch whatever. As long as long as the people who fire who can fire, you don't care, then you're all good. True. I just don't I don't like people getting, you know, unnecessary, unnecessarily upset about me saying something or me being the story. That wasn't my intent. I was just talking to Andy Cohen about really all things St. Louis and uh, and that was kind of weaved in somehow, and that wasn't my intention. But I don't like. I don't like that kind of I know, but whatever, you know, what they we live again in such a fast paced world. It's like, even though we have slowed down considerably because of the coronavirus, it's gone in three days, not even don't even remembers it anymore, you know. And and most people, like you said, took it as a peek behind the curtain as to how these networks are thinking about bringing sports back on TV. And as I said on Twitter, I was like, look, there is no traditional take on how we should handle this because we've never been in this situation before. Tell me the last time a national broadcast of a you know, big Sunday football game or a World series or whatever had zero people in the seats. If that's what comes to pass, And then the question is, if that's the case, how do you make it look and sound good to people at home? And I don't think anybody has the answer to that yet, but you better sure be trying stuff now, but it will happen. I mean, look, UFC, you know it was the first to sort of take it on in a sense without a crowd, and that crowd really means something when you're watching UFC. I mean, that's part of the excitement, is not just the fight, but the crowd's reaction to the fight. You feel that energy and it's a whole different ball game when you're watching it. You have seen now it's weird, it is. And and as a broadcasters, a guy sitting there trying to find the right time to talk and maybe more importantly, find the right time to not talk and let the crowd carry it. If that element is gone, you know, I think it's cool to to let people at home listen to a roaring crowd without an announcer trying to fight over the top of it. And and that to me brings the experience of being at the stadium to somebody's home television and couch. I think that's my job. And and so again, if you dip into a game that has no sound, two announcers talking and it looks like nobody's there, it's like, should I even bother? Watching crazy? Watching FC is so funny because Buffer, you know, it's like it's chime and then you hear like the corner guy like like fart or something. I mean, it's like, it's so crazy. It's weird. It's so weird. It's so weird. Oh no, I think Buffer has gotta have like no crowd voice too, doesn't he? Like everybody, he goes full tilt, all out, full tilt. It's crazy, you know. I mean, that's that's that's why they're paying him. In his mind, it's the Michael Buffer experience of the whole. It's still fun, though, it's still fun to watch something live like that. You know, I didn't watch the golf thing. I watched some and I know that course pretty well, and that was cool to see how they play it. But again, it's four guys playing golf. It's cool because it's live, and it was a A great cause too great causes but when you don't have the technology there and watching golf from wide shots. You saw some tracer but they're taking wide shots and all of a sudden, it's like the balls on the green, you know how they get there. You can't even really track the golf ball. So it was different. But but hey, they gave it a shot, and uh, I'm glad they did. For God, So I know. Well, we have Genie bus coming on soon. I don't know when, but this is exciting for me being sort of a lifelong Lakers fan. Yes, I mean, I'm so glad that that she's coming on and willing to talk about a lot of the stuff that you and I have flung the doors to our souls open and talked about our own daddy issues. There she is, can you, Yes, here we are. How are you just realize you're talking to two guys one guy in me. I'm not looking for I'm not looking for any free stuff, any free tickets, nothing down to the stadium, Arina, nothing, Oliver. I can't do. Yeah, I can't say. I've been I've been a lifelong Lakers fan since I was a kid. So yeah, I remember you coming when you were just a kid. Yeah, I was a little a little, a little tiger. Are you in an office, like an actual office right now? Yes, we're actually, um, we're not open for our employees, but we're able to bring our players in if they're if they're doing treatments or rehab and so it's a it's a big protocol. I had my temperature taken. We have a nurse on call. We're doing everything by the book to make sure that everybody stays safe. And whether we can get back to basketball that's a whole other issue. But right now we're just taking maybe steps to make sure that we can, you know, have our players come here and and feel safe and competent, that they're in a place where they don't have to worry about a virus. That's good. I know you must be going through it. I mean, look, well everyone's going through it, but on a personal level, but also just from what you do. I mean, god, what with Joe and I were just talking about it, how it's how it will, how it will come back, sports will come back. We just don't know what it's going to look like, you know, I mean it's just crazy. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's in my forty plus years of doing this. Um I've never dealt with anything like this, but you know, sports has always been kind of a place where we realized not only for our entertainment, but also for the strength of the community, and that how sports unites us all and and you know, it's worth fighting for, it's worth bringing back as long as we can make sure that that it doesn't put anybody at any unnecessary risk. You said something there that I think is really the main reason to have you on. There are a lot of them, but to be a sports executive for basically forty years, I mean, it started from you know, society has changed over those forty years, and it started from oh, you know, you had to always have the disclaimer as a female sports executive, and thank god, you know, things have progressed since then. But you have had this stamina and the staying power, and now you're in charge of one of the most important sports franchises in all of the world. I mean, and that's hats off to you for for being able to do it as long as you have. Um I I really want to ask you what you think your dad saw in you as a young woman at you a see to make you the GM of of a tennis team. And and and what what you think he saw in Eugenie to to know that that you would be a person that could run his franchise. Well, you know, it's it's like I was one of those kids. You know. He before he bought the Lakers and the Kings and the forum, he he started, he owned a tennis team in World Team Tennis called the Daily Strings. And you know, I was like thirteen, fourteen years old. And so he would whenever they would have their league meetings or their owners meetings or whatever, he would send me to go, you know, get him something to eat or sandwich or bring donuts or whatever. And I would go and you know, bring him the sandwich. And instead of leaving to go to the beach, I would stay in the room and sit in the corner and just listen. And I was fascinated by how a league operates, how a team operates, And it was just something that I gravitated to. And he knew that, Um you know that I you know, I was fascinated with it. And I would stick with it. And he could put me in challenging positions, UM, and I wouldn't I wouldn't back down. Maybe I wasn't. I didn't know everything that I needed to know. But he believed in me, and that gave me the confidence that I needed to just keep doing it. Mm hmmm. And what about growing up? You know, I know you had some sort of you had you through, you know, your child of divorce, as am I, and we all deal with all of our emotional bullshit that comes along with that, you know, but specifically from sort of a paternal from the father's side of things. You know, my dad sort of was there for a minute, and then when I was eleven or twelve, he kind of disappeared. I was lucky enough to sort of have Kirt come into my life. You know. Um, when that happened, what did How did did that affect your relationship with your father specifically at all or what? Or was he already sort of so busy that he wasn't around a lot um you know, he was busy building an empire and and it was for him. He came from nothing. He was born in a small town in Wyoming, and he saw a life that he didn't want to live, and he didn't you know, he wanted to have a family and he wanted to provide for his family, and he realized that education was going to be his ticket out and so he, you know, amazingly got his undergraduate degree from the University of Wyoming at age nineteen, and then he got his PhD from USC at age twenty three, which was really am But when you know, when you when you worked that hard, you're you're you know, he was working, you know, twelve fourteen, sixteen hours a day. That's just who he was, and that was his goals and you know, he I think he you know, that's what he wanted to do and he didn't, you know, have time to take care of kids, and so totally, I mean, that's the sacrifice that that that you have to make, you know, as parents, it's like, okay, where do you land on that scale? You know, where do you land? And I have to deal with that as an actor. And Joe, you know, he travels around doing what he's doing, but there are moments where I'm like, I can't do this job because I don't want to go to Bulgaria for two years and be away from my family, you know, But it was it was it was it was you know, I think, you know, we're all put in these challenging situations when we're growing up. But what my issue was was that I couldn't get answers when when the kids at school would say to me, where's your dad? And I would say to my mom, where's where's dad? And and her answer was always he's at the office. So then when I would go over to my friend Megan's house and her dad was home during the week, I was like, why is it your dad at the office? Don't dad? It's like it didn't mean So that to me was that that was the scary part for me, being that young and not having the answer, and so I even went to the extreme. I think I was like in third or fourth grade, I started telling people he was dead, because then it was at least I had an answer, and at least then they'd stop asking me like that, you know. So that that's where I think. Now parents have been told like it's okay to tell your kids, tell them how much you love them, tell them what's happening, tell them that mom is going to be there for you and Dad's going to be there for you, and this is how it's going to be. But like there must have been some doctor at that time in the sixties who said, don't ever stress out your children, like just tell them you know, everything will be fine, and not to ask questions, because I think that's that's kind of what you know made me, gave me anxiety, was just not being able to answer the questions, right, how did you explain his resurrectory? Wait? Your dad? Is that your dad? Well, I mean then you know. Then they then as time went on, then their separation became clear to both of them, and they each started dating other people and then it wasn't as odd as it was. But my mom probably didn't really know what was happening at that time, and you know, and there wasn't my dad around. So I think just you know, I think now the professionals would tell you, sit down, tell your kids the truth. You know, you don't have to go into the rough details, but just let them know so that they can answer the questions to their to their peers. And what about your your siblings? You know, did you find comfort in a pack, you know, in your crew or was it divided? You know, because sometimes that sibling relationship can be very helpful in dealing with sort of parents not being there or divorce, yeah, you know, or not not, or it could be. When you create that kind of anxiety, then then there's probably everybody's you know, protecting their territory or there you know, like you're trying to find things that you can count on, that are that are you know, stable and predictable. And so when everybody's in that kind of anxiety, I think it doesn't lend itself to being supportive or at least in my case. Yeah, but there is something because I followed my dad into his business. My dad was a broadcaster for fifty years, and I was really close with my dad, and I saw the joy that my dad got out of going to work. I saw him, even at his sickest with Parkinson's and different things that he was dealing with, he couldn't wait to get up and go out the door and go down and do the Cardinals baseball game and and so then I saw that as a kid, and because he and I were so close, I wanted to do what he was doing. And so there's something between you and your dad that, even with all of that that you just talked about, you saw you had a closeness or you had a reverence for him, or you saw something in him getting what he was getting out of building this empire that you wanted to do yourself. Yeah, And I mean that's that's such a beautiful thing to say about your dad, that he inspired you to do what you're doing, and how how cool that is. And and with my dad, it was about how he um he wanted to He wanted us to, you know, participate in the family business. And and early on where he had made his money was in real estate. And I mean first he wanted to just be a doctor professor, a PhD, and be a teacher. And then he realized that teachers don't make the kind of money that he wanted to make, so he started investing in real estate in southern California, apartment buildings and developments. And so I always thought I was going to go into the real estate business, so like I still I'm very attracted to that business as well. But then he just you know that his passion was to own a sports team, and and for him to be able to buy the Lakers was really a dream come true for him because he he had thought if I someday would have enough money to have season tickets to the Dodgers, like that was a big goal for him was just to have season and tickets, and that's how we spent time together as a family. We went to the horse races, we went to baseball games, we went to USC football games. That's so it became like our family lifestyle. So you know, it just was a natural thing for me to go into the sports business because that's how he liked to spend time with us. D I I feel like the three of us, though, carry around some weird voice in our head, like that, that guilt voice that and I have it to this day of you know, my my dad worked his way up from nothing, came from dirt poor, went through World War Two, only went to college because of the g I Bill, and became who he became out of talent, hard work, the right time at the right place. Your dad became who he became because he didn't want to He wanted to make more money and he was smart enough to know where to invest in real estate and now here we are. Ali's the same way. It's why we call the podcast what we call it, because you know, you do get a leg up, you also have that voice it goes I don't know if you would have done this yourself if if not for dad. Do you carry that around too, I know, Oliver, and I absolutely and and you know that's why you know, um, and I'm sure most people are familiar with the the you know. UM. After my dad passed away in um, he left us, you know, he left the team and the family so that the family would inherit the team, and he left my brother in charge of basketball and me in charge of business. And UM. You know, he was very specific and how he ran the team, what his goals were with the team, and I assumed that's how my brother would. You know, he would run basketball the way my dad did, and I would run the business the way we did under my dad. And UM, so when my brother wasn't going with kind of the way my dad did things, it was a little bit distressing for me. And as over the years prior to him passing away, my dad would tell me that he was going to put me in charge, that he was going to give me the authority that if anything how he left it needed to be changed, that I would be able to change it. So when things weren't going well with the basketball side of things, it was it was important to me to do what my dad asked me to because just like you said, that voice in your head that you know, my dad gave us something that he built, that he treasured very much, and he spent ten years transferring the stock and paying off the taxes so that this team could stay in the family. It's it's very difficult to pass assets of this size to the next generation, and it was really important to him that he had that opportunity with his kids. And because he saw many owners like Jack Kent Cook who owned the Washington football team and I say the Washington football team because I will not use their nickname. I find it offensive. And um, you know that when he passed, his son thought he would run the team. Well, as it turns out, the the estate taxes that are come due are so uh it's it's so it's such a great amount of money that he ended up having to sell the team to pay the estate taxes. And he didn't my dad didn't want us to be put in that position, So you know, it was he was very thoughtful and specific about what he wanted to have happened, and that he put that pressure on me. He apologized for it. He said, this isn't this really isn't fair to you. Jennie, But you're the only one that I feel will do what needs to be done. Well, that's a tough position to be in because you're dealing with family both above and to the side of you, and you have to step forward and make tough decisions. And we know how that's all played out. But jeez, that's that's a lot of responsibility. I have a question to what, what what what what? When your dad died? What was lost in jerry bus basketball? What what did you have to resurrect? You know, his reputation of of being you know, fair and straightforward and and really putting the emphasis on winning and over anything else. And you know, he was a winner and he wanted this team to be a winner, but he also knew how hard it is to championships in any league. That it's it's a combination of talent, coaching, um luck because of injuries, staying away from injuries, and you know, one call can change an entire season, so you know, you can only control so much, right But my dad, really, you know, his goal every year was to get at least to the second round of the playoffs and if you if if you got further, then you know that was bonus, but if you didn't make the playoffs, that was a disaster. So he always did twice, right, twice under while he owned the team thirty two years, they only missed the playoffs twice, which is really amazing given things like when you know, Magic Johnson has to retire suddenly because of HIV and like you're the organization wasn't prepared for it, you know, the transition of one star team into another one, right that that just caught everybody off guard, the tragic situation and so, um, you know, we went year after year after year of not making the playoffs and that then that starts too. It's harder and harder to get out of a situation, especially in a league that counts on free agency as a way of you know, building a team, and not that that's the only way to build a team. You can build a team through the draft. Um, but you know, if if now you're you're in the seller perpetually, it's harder and harder to bring free agents to come in because they don't think you're committed to winning, even if you are the Lakers, you know, which is crazy because again I'm a die hard fan and and there was a just that rough, rough, rough, rough patch, and you know, I felt like that, it felt like we were just we but we're digging and digging and it's harder to get out of this hole. And it's and for me as a fan, I'm like, what is it going to take? This is the fucking Lakers. What is happening right now? You know? Well, it's like and it's funny because Oliver, you like, we're you're a hockey fan. So you know, my dad owned the Kings from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty six, and so he couldn't figure out how to win with hockey. It drove him in saying because he was having all this success with the Lakers and he couldn't figure out how to get that with the Kings. And so he had started the conversations with the Peter Pocklington at the Oilers to trade Gretzky because he knew that, um, you know, he explained to the Edmonton you know owner, like, okay, Wayne's won five championships. There's really nothing else he can accomplish there. And my dad knew that he had empty seats to sell and that Gretzky coming to the Kings would you know, kind of be the turnaround that they needed. But in the meantime, Bruce mcnal came in the picture and really really wanted to own the Kings and operate the Kings, and he signed a lease to stay at the Forum, which is what my dad wanted. He signed an agreement to keep the Kings on Prime Ticket, which was our regional sports network. So my dad was, you know, you know, I think Bruce will do a better job running the Kings, and I'll focus on the Lakers. So it's it's really hard to win, especially in your city, your city in New York. Those are the two that you can get lured into. The star and the name and sometimes a fading star or a fading name or somebody who became a star elsewhere. And now, you know, are you signing the guy to sell tickets up front? Are you're going to develop to win long term? And that's that's always the push and pull in these big cities. You can't rebuild. You can't ever say publicly, oh well we're tanking and we're going to rebuild. It just doesn't work. You can't do it. It's not when you're when you're you know, you're used to winning, you know, if your fan base, you know, and I mean it's certainly you know, it's like I think it's it's like a balance. Like I hate that to say, like you can't rebuild in a big market, but um, you know, for example, when when that the Shaq Kobe era started, Shack came as a free agent, but Kobe came through a trade on draft day, So you know, technically Kobe was developed by the Lakers because he only played for one team his entire career, so you know that, you know, Kobe was somebody that it was like we we could build with a draft, through the draft or free agency with Shack and when you're down and losing and then we were my brother was changing coaches every eighteen months. And okay, I you know, sometimes you have to make coaching changes. I get that. But when when you go from a a coach like Mike Brown whose emphasis was defense, two a coach like Mike D'Antoni, who really doesn't worry so much about defense that that that's two different rosters that you need, like and and and so it's it's like then then the outside world thinks they don't know what direction are you going, you're you should be able to see a pathway as to you hire a coach, you give him the players that play his style of basketball, and then the rest. You know, you make decisions that follow the decision before, and you can see a path You can see what the person is thinking. But I couldn't see what what was going on and where he was trying to go, and what what our identity was going to be as a team. And you know, um, certainly when my dad talked to me about giving me the authority to make the changes, he didn't really let my siblings know the extent of that power because I think he felt that they would first not be happy with that, and and second try to talk him out of it, and he would spend the rest of his life trying to like, you know, and how did and how did that go over? I mean because first, first of all, you I'm sure you've seen Succession right the TV show on HBO. I mean that's apparently for the the the the was it the Family, the murder Murder? I mean, this feels it feels like you've got a sports succession production on your hands. I mean, you know, that is definitely entertaining that show. But I wouldn't say that we were a succession because I believe, truly believe if the Lakers would have stayed under that same kind of rhythm where okay, maybe once every ten years we don't make the playoffs. Um, instead, it was year after year after year, and I said to my brother, you know, when are we going to get back in the playoffs? And that's when he gave himself the three year you know, time frame, And so there was no reason for me to think that he didn't know what he was that that he would deliver what he promised in those three years. Well, as it turned out, it didn't go that way. And then, you know, unbeknownst to him, like I had to, I had to assert my authority. And then that's when it went to court, because we had to make sure that who was given the authority had the authority and to make that change, and um, you know he had. You know, he wasn't happy. I think he wasn't happy with that. But I think anybody who's in a family knows that, Yeah, that's tough. I mean, business family, business, business family, however you want to say it. I mean, it's difficult, you know, I mean, I'm not I'm I'm in business with my sister. We do a podcast together, you know, and it's very minor. Let's just let the other part, I know. But what I'm saying is you have to walk this line because what's most important, you know, Like Katie and I have had an amazing relationship. You know, it's been tumultuous at times, and especially in the beginning, you know, when my parents divorced, but it's own into something really beautiful. And then we get into business together and you just feel there's always a little tension. You want to make sure that everything is good because what's most important. You know, what's most important is our family, you know. But when your family and your siblings, you're so red, so wrapped up, this is part of your identity, so you have no choice but to sort of figure all that ship out. I mean, well, that that's that what that takes us back to the voice in my head, which was I had to do what my dad asked me to do, which was the hardest thing I ever did. And but I think anybody that's in that position would have done the same thing that I did, because you you know, I know what it took for my dad to make sure that we could keep this team in the family. And I know that, you know, I know the joy that my dad got when the Lakers would win a championship and you would see the city of Los Angeles come together under a purple and gold flag. That really meant a lot to him because he chose Los Angeles as his home. This was this He loved Los Angeles. It was he wanted to give the city something they could be proud of because he felt that they the city had given him, you know, everything he dreamed of. And and he wanted the Lakers to beat the Celtics. That was really what he wanted to do. And and and and I feel that obligation of that passion that he had. And what's the pressure, like though, do you feel a pressure to sort of carry on this Laker legacy? This this is you know, this winning I mean not not just for the city and for your own personal feelings about winning, but for your dad. I mean, is they're added pressure there? And then the sort of second part is do you feel like you ever compare yourself being like, oh my god, like I have to live up to it. Um? Yes, there's pressure. Um, But I, you know, as there should be. You know, the Lakers is a brand that UM was is about winning, and you know that's what I have to continue. But I appreciate the pressure I um you know, and you know my in in the conversations that I would have with my dad, you know, all the time, you know, he would say, you're gonna You're gonna do things your wageing me like, don't feel that you have to do it the way that I do it. You have to keep the team evolved and you have to like, you know, keep them competitive and so while you know they're like a lot of the challenges like a pandemic. He and I never had any conversation about that, but I know what he would want to get back to basketball, how important the team is to the community. And we've seen that, we've seen that. You know, without sports, it's it's you know, we don't have things to connect us as there's nothing to rally around. I I you know, people want to downplay sports, and you know, I'm in the sports world during the sports world, so we're biased, but my gosh, when it's not there, there's such a whole in American life and even the non sports fan has to at least acknowledge that walking past people watching a game and whatever town they live in, there's something to that. Like you said, there's so many things out there. They're splitting everybody so far apart that these are the one things. I mean, I'm a huge St. Louis Blues fan. When I go to the games in my season tickets, I'm high after a big goal. You know, you're high five and people you don't know, and you know pre COVID, but you're You're in everybody's face and you're like, oh my god, we're all we just gotta score a huge goal. And there's just something, as silly as it may sound to people, it's a huge part of who we are as Americans. And now here you are after all the struggle of you know, the power struggle and everything else, and you guys are fantastic team and you're in first place and now you get hit with the shut so I can't even talk. You know, you're you're You're the second NBA owner that we've had on here. We had Mark Cuban on uh. When we talked to him, I would say a month ago he was pretty certain that the NBA would come back in some form, um, obviously with safety measures first and foremost in everybody's mind. A month later, as we talked to Eugenie or you still pretty certain that in some form there's basketball in you know. I mean until we we have it all figured out, I can't definitively say yes or no. But that is that what we're working towards. Yes, we're working really hard and trying to get all the pieces to to fit together so that everybody, you know, it feels safe and confident. Um. You know, whether it's playing games without fans or with fans with face masks. You know, I'm not an expert, and I'm not gonna try to speculate what it's going to look like, but we know, like step by step, UM. And and really what I you know, a lot of my philosophical parts about um, you know, a basketball team, any sports team, is that it has to feel you have to feel like a family union unit. And I learned that from Phil Jackson and watching the Last Dance, you know, that becomes top of mind and watching how he um brought that team together, and and um, you know, the idea that I'm the head of an organization and that our players, I feel so we feel so disconnected because you know, not all the players that play for the Lakers live in Los Angeles, and so now we're kind of spread out and and and you know, the practice facility, the office becomes like the center hub. And when when we had to shut down and and lose that connection, it's it's it's it's like traumatic for a team because they didn't have that chance to like say goodbye to each other or finish their season, and um, you know, it's like it's healing their hearts for that to try to bring them all back together. And yeah, it's interesting the last dance, which is just phenomenal, but it does give you you know Mike, of course it's Michael Jordan's but it really lets you into to understand what it's like to be a team and how important that is. And you know, um, like when Scott came with Rodman, but like when Scotty, you know, when when Scotty decided to sit and not not not go in for that last shot when Steve Kerr was Steve Grew hit it, No nos Cook coach hit it. And then you watch how it all went down in the locker room. It's like, whoa. You know, that's there's a there's a real letdown when it came to that. I mean, that's that's still stuck with to this day. And I mean during this crisis, you know, we had a player in the NBA, UM Karl Anthony Towns, who lost his mother, and and I think about how he would love, probably feel nothing more than to have his teammates wrapped their arms around them. And we couldn't do that, Like, we can't do that as a community because we're all isolated and disconnected and quarantined and sequestered and whatever you wanna call it. It's been really hard. No, I know, Well it's funny you guys were talking about how sports and the outlet and um, you know, when Kobe passed, I was obviously, with everyone else devastated, but I was exceptionally devastated. And I didn't know why because I only met him one time. UM, and I was really trying to think about why I was so devastated, you know, and then it came to me. He there's certain things, certain times in life, when you are fully clear of thought, you were, you were in that present moment, when you're experiencing any elation that is beyond anything like you felt. It's there's there's moments in life when you purely exist in that moment and that is all like the birth of your child. There's certain times and Kobe for me was that he it was he gave me moments of just forgetting about every problem in my life. I think the sports does and I appreciate that so much. You know that when that is taken and when that goes, it's just a piece of you has gone, has gone. You know you talk about and I and I think it is worth bringing up. I thought you guys for for having that hit the organization, hit the country, hit the seeing this larger than life figure and his poor daughter and everybody else that was on that helicopter pass away. Um, hats off to you for how you guys honored everyone and and honored his time in your organization. That was that that brought in everybody that I'm sure people that's some that never heard of Kobe Bryant, if that's possible. But you guys, really you don't know how you're going to react, and you don't know how it's gonna come off. But I don't think it could have come off any better. When you look back on that, you gotta be really proud. Um well, I mean I would give anything to go back and and have January six and never take place like that. But you know, for me, it's like when you know, my dad bought the team in nine nine, that first year, won a championship, won five in the eighties, and then when Magic had to retire, it all stopped right. And you know what, the next year, we didn't make the playoffs, and you know, it was just it was depressing. And I prayed to the skies above and I said, if we ever get a player on our team like Magic Johnson again, I will never ever ever take that player for granted. And then we got Kobe, and I as as heartbroken as I am, the one comfort that I have is that Kobe knew how much we loved him, and we told him and we retired his numbers, and you know, he never he never doubted that we were behind him. That in that that gives me some comfort because we we never held back the celebrating the greatness that was Kobe. And you know that's so well said, because I think these these stars, whatever the sport, they come and go and you don't really get it until they're gone, whether you're you know, in your position of ownership or you're in just any fans position. And you see these certain players in every sport, and did they really even as a fan in St. Louis, do you did you really appreciate that player while he was here and while he was doing you know, all or he or she doing all that they could possibly do to bring a smile to your face and try and win at all costs. And man, I think most of the time the answers probably no. And the fact that you had been through that with magic and this you know, unexpected, almost impossible ending to that, and then you know, having this guy like Kobe Bryant come along so good for you that and you can see, you know it was it was there, that was that was genuine, that was heartfelt, That was the Lakers as an organization that was just heartbroken. And you're not heartbroken unless you're all in with that person. And you guys were all in with him, so so good that you enjoyed it and honored him while he was playing instead of just after the fact. I was I was thinking, as you were talking about your dad, it's probably a weird question, but um, how often do you dream about your dad? That's that's a really interesting question because it's like, um, you know, there there has there have been moments in the last seven years that I've had these very viscerald dreams where either I'm going through some stress or I feel I'm not confident in a decision or whatever, and like they'll be an appearance or there'll be some you know, I sometimes I out of nowhere, I'll run into a person or see somebody and they'll come up and they'll share a story about my dad that I've never heard of, or they'll send me a picture or something, and it's it's like a trigger that then it, you know, the good feelings come back, like you remember, okay, like this was what it was like when he was around, and and you know how important that is for me. Do you get the same thing you get dreams of your dad? I do. I mean, I'm I'm a month short of my dad being gone for eighteen years, and I will tell you that I dream about him, I would say, and I tell my wife it's like I had another dream about him. I dream about him maybe four times a week, and it's like, it's not like, oh my god, there's my Yeah, it's weird. It's not like, oh my god, there's my dad. It's or he's been he's been like hiding for the last eighteen years, or he's been somewhere else and now he's back. But then it's just normal. And I had some moments with him that I wrote about a book that I wrote, you know him, you know, begging me to let him die, and then the moment on his deathbed and me not going to see him before I went down to do a game, and then breaking down and going in to see him, and then him passing away five minutes after I left. These moments that you just are so indelibly printed on my mind in my heart that you know, he's he's just he's around me, and like you, I get a story a day. It feels like around St. Louis where I live, about something my dad did and I'm like, God, he did that, you know, I walk away from this person like okay, yeah, he really. He set out a hell of an example that I try to live up to every day. But I just was wondering because I I feel like our dads were so larger than life in our own world and in the of these we live in that you probably you know, he doesn't ever really truly leave you, even even on death and death. Yeah, and you know, and it's like I had, I've had a couple of dreams about Kobe too, and um, it's like and and those like make me feel like he's okay, Like it's it's going to be okay, Like there's you know, because he was somebody going through what I had to go through in the last couple of years. I leaned on him a lot for advice and support and he was always there for me. And um, you know, to lose my dad and to lose Kobe and to have you know, Magic leave his job as president, even though Magic and I still you know, see each other and communicate, working with Magic every day was really, um, such a pleasure for me. I really enjoyed it, and I was, you know, sad that he it wasn't something that was making him happy having to work every day and a job that is a tough job. Um, but you know, I think you know, it must feel lonely around It does for as many people as walking the hallways your your pillars of strength or and something and and David Stern, like these were all people that had such influence on me and that I could always count on to be there when I needed help. And and I've lost a lot, and you know, it's it's hard, but you know, I think, you know, Magic got us to where we are today, like he's he got us, he got Lebron James too. Say, the Lakers were back, you know, like a belief in the organization that we were going in the right direction. And I cannot thank Magic more for you know, coming and helping me at the most difficult time in my professional business side of an operation. Mm hmmm. Well, the Lakers are fun now, I mean, what a fun fun team. It's funny. It's almost like back to back to showtime in a way. You know, It's it's quick pace and it's just fun, fun, fun, fun. So I can't even the fact that we were we were where we were now we're not finishing thee or whatever that might be. It's I mean, look, there's a lot of worse things that are happening in the world, of course, but as a Lakers fan, I mean it's just like, oh yeah, I mean everything these days Junie comes with that disclaimer and and so we send it out there yet again that while people, you know, we're talking about sports and Lakers and you know, whatever, our hardships are in our own minds about what we're going through with our families and losing dads and whatever. You know, this this is a daily struggle for so many people out there. Um That obviously there are bigger things and getting back to basketball, but I do feel like, if it's possible, when it comes back, it will be an emotional return for all these sports, but but for the fans, for just the citizens going. Man, we're kind of back to somewhat life like we knew it. And I think that sports gives us that opportunity to kind of, you know, make a statement that that maybe we're winning this battle. At some point, hopefully that comes to pass. Um. I have a question, Okay, so when you're building a championship team, right, I mean, you've got talent and then you've got sort of the culture of the organization. Does one tip one way or the other? I mean, what's more important? You know? Do you think the talent? Of course you need talent, there's no doubt about it, but right half to have talent, but what about just the culture of the sort of the organization. How important is that? Um, you know untel you know, I like used in that word. The culture didn't really didn't have clarity for me until Magic came and how it's like everybody knew. It was like, Okay, now we're you know, the hammers coming down, we're serious, we're about winning. We're going to get back to winning. And how like, not only from the basketball side, but like every aspect of the organization, everybody sat up a little bit straighter. Like Magic. You know, it's like, we're here to do something. Now, this is what we're this is what we're committed to, and and you know, he set us off on that path. And now I really see how the culture has come around in terms of, you know, bringing somebody like Lebron, and then the players that want to come and play with somebody like Lebron, and the coaches that we have, the coaching staff, and and what they're all about and what they're trying to accomplish. So yes, I think we managed to change our culture. It took time to implement, but now we're now we're people know who we are, they know the kind of basketball team. We want to be the kind of players that we're going to bring it in and now it all feeds on itself. Now we we've got the pieces, and now the pieces can grow and be bigger. I think I think Jeanie and Ali that that's what the Last Dance has shown me yet again, that you can have everything in place that you want, but if you don't have the one player in the locker room that holds everybody accountable, that he's kind of the last say. You know, I just have not seen many winning teams or teams that go on long runs that don't have that one guy that even when the coach walks out of the door, everybody is still accountable to that guy over in the corner. That's probably because he's such a veteran, has three lockers to himself. It's like the three locker mentality. If if you know, it was that way with the Cardinals with Albert Poohole, So it's that way, you know whatever these guys in their prime, or gret Sky in his day, or whatever it might be, that the players can get away with whatever little stuff they can get away with. But there's a line, and that line is drawn by that guy in the corner, not by the head coach, not by the GM, not by the owner, not by the media. It's drawn by that guy who's setting the example every day. And if you don't have that, you're dead. And I just I just don't think you're gonna win, especially with all of the distractions that exist today. This is not nixt. If you don't have somebody that the players are accountable to on their level, you're not gonna win. Is that your experience, Jenny Um. I do think that you need that that guy in the locker room that is gonna say what needs to be sad and that, you know, to get guys to like follows suit and and you know Kobe was that guy. Lebron is that guy. You know Kobe was in the gym. He was the first one in the gym every day. And you know, when the best player on your team works that hard, then you know everybody else has to fall in line. I also think that it's important that you give players the right role for them, and meaning that when you ask a role player to be your star player that doesn't work, it's it's frustrating for the athlete as well as for the team. You have to put players in the right position for them to be successful. So you have to be familiar with your roster and have you know, complementary pieces so that you're you're not wasting your time having you know, eight, you know, small forwards on one team and then it it just it doesn't work. There has everybody has to know their role and they have to be in a role that they can exceed in and see what the expectation that is being asked for them. Was Kobe is tough as Jordan's now that we get to see, so how tough Jordan is in the locker room and how brutal he might have been to some of his teammates. Was Kobe is tough? Because obviously Kobe was emulating Jordan's like to the tea. I mean, you even watching some of these these these miss messing things that the YouTube people are putting together. It's it's uncanny, you know. So was he his fiery um? You know, like that would be a better question for Phil to answer, But I would say that did Kobe set a bar? Yes he did? And did did he not tolerate players that didn't work hard or you know, weren't committed yeah, like that he that was hard for him to, um, you know, respect a player that didn't care about it as much as he did, and that's what he demanded. And you know, even like with Dwight Howard who was a Laker and played with Kobe and then left to go joint Houston. Um, you know it's it's like when Dwight came back the next time, people were kind of like, how Jeanie, how could you guys bring you know, somebody that Kobe didn't like or or was frustrated with or that left the Lakers. And I said, I completely understand why Dwight left as a free agent because Mike D'Antoni was not a coach that was going to put him in a position to succeed, you know, because he really didn't. He liked shooters and instead of big man and whatever. But that um, you know, Kobe himself would have he would He was always there to like make the team better. Meaning if Dwight Howard could make your team better, then you have to at Dwight Howard like he would never say. It was always about winning. So if a player could help him win, it didn't He didn't have to be best friends with them. It was all about are you going to do the work? Are you going to be part of a team. Are you going to contribute instead of be a distraction. And you know, as it turned out, Dwight has been amazing for us, Oh god, so great, amazing. It's almost like he just had to accept his role and he's just done that. It's just like, Okay, he's in this sort of twilight of his career a little bit. He goes, Okay, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna do. I'm just gonna accept the role that I'm in, and he is just did you ask Kobe about Dwight? I mean when when you were bringing him in and did he what did he did he like the idea or not? Like the I'm saying, I'm nodding my head. Yes, Um. I mean of like Kobe wanted us to to win. He wanted to see Lakers win, and you know, um, you know, he became to a couple of games and you know, he was happy to see Dwight and greeted him and and it's it really you don't ever give up on anybody. I mean, Phil Jackson taught me that. He's like you know he he he said, you know, um, because you know Phil before he coached the Bulls, he coached in the c B A, he coached in Puerto Rico, and he said, you know, every player will develop at his own rate. You can't force somebody to develop faster than anybody else. Some players are ready to play in the NBA at eighteen, he said, you you know, some guys aren't ready to tell their twenty six or twenty seven. You you can't just paint them as Okay, this guy is this, and so therefore, you know, give up on him. It's like Phil could always see something and somebody that could help us win. And you know that's like a Shannon Brown or Trevor a reason that that came and kind of were trades that just made the numbers work. And and Phil took those guys and said, this is how they can play a role on this team and and you know, bring out their best. I I always really appreciated that about Phil. M Did you learn things about your long time partner and Phil during watching the Last Dance that you didn't know about him? Um? You know, I think the thing that really surprised me, and I mean he told me pretty much every story about the Steve Kerr and Michael and at the practice with the punch. Um he told me about, you know why, like the whole thing about the start of the season when they said it doesn't matter if Phil goes eighty two and oh he's never coming back as the coach. Like things like that he told me about. But what he never told me was the story about how they they wrote their feelings on the paper and then burned in the coffee can. He never told me that story, which I think was a very private story for that group of people. So that now that it's been shared, I think people are going to be more interested in what that ritual was about. And you know, I know I am, and I know that, um, I want to know, you know, exactly what everybody wrote. It's like that. It's funny though, because pro sports and and really all sports, but they're going to analytics, and I get it, and and analytics has its place. But what is always seemed to be discounted, at least to me, is that these are people, you know, like Tony LaRussa, the longtime manager of the Cardinals. His his thing when somebody didn't you know, come through and these are men, not machines, and that's there's some real truth to that. And you see them as these super athletes and and you know, he's getting paid ten billion dollars a year, so he should just go run through a wall for you. But these are people with feelings and people who had a fight with their spouse and people who you know, whatever it is, or they're having a bad week or their kid this or that and and and having that or have frustration with the guys sitting across the locker room from them, whatever it might be. And these are big egos trying to cram into a small team or small locker room. I think that's so brilliant and probably ahead of its time, uh, that that Phil did with that team, because I think we're kind of more toward that even during the more analytical times at least within the clubhouse of the locker room. But man, there's such value and just kind of getting it out and getting it out of your system and having it out and then going on from there. Yeah. Yeah, Like, um well, I just I was gonna say, like Phil and I used to get a fight every Thanksgiving, you know, like and I would because he would make the team practice, right, And I was like, oh my god, they're on the road. It's like, you know, they never get a any time off. Why just give them Thanksgiving off? It's and and he said listen, he said, I'm bringing them in just in the morning. He said, I'm building a family. And this is a holiday, and families are together on holidays, so they need to see their basketball family in the morning and they'll have plenty of time to go home and have Thanksgiving dinner with their their family. And I was like, wow, I never even thought about that. And those are the kind of subtleties that is the brilliance of Phil. And um, you know, I remember even when I got my dog, but like I got a little dog and I was so proud of her and I was gonna everything, do everything by the book with this dog. And I caught him feeding her people food. I was like, you can't do that. Why are you? And he goes, I want her to know I have her back to that she can always come to me when she needs something. So Phil was really good, good at like figuring out just keeping everybody happy and what each person needed and what you know, not that a dog is a person, but it's like those kind of things, how he thinks about from their perspective and what they need. And did you did you find spirituality through Phil? I mean, did he bring you into sort of that space? I mean, I think, you know, not to get you know, too much into the relationship, but it's like I was at a place in my life in my late thirties when I met him, and and I really was like on a journey of truth and you know, seeking things. And you know, when my dad hired him, I was like, why are you going to bring in this guy. He's like, you know, he's gonna we have two stars, we have Shock, we have Kobe. He's just gonna upset the balance. And you know, thankfully my dad didn't listen to me. So then then you know, I didn't really know. I had never met Phil. So then when I met him, I was so blown away by his presence, just his presence and his voice. I didn't know if he was married or what. But you know, then I found out he was going through divorce and um, you know, so anyway, but I was, I was seeking and he he is a seeker. Both of his parents were ministers, um, and he you know, he wanted to know about the spiritual side that he was brought up knowing, but he also wanted to experience other religions, and he went on you know, years and years journey. He's you know, he's an intellectual. He's very curious about everything, and he has to learn about everything. And it was really a wonderful relationship that we had, um for the time in my life and the time in his life. And um, I'm great. He's just one of those people. He's just one of those people that makes me feel lazy, like I'd love I didn't. I don't know. I'd love to know about all that stuff too, but I don't. I just can't bring myself to read anything. I can't. I just good for him when you're searching, when you're searching inward, and and I like, hell, no one's a Phil Jackson. I'm certainly not. But I love that that sort of discovery of self. You know, it's important to me. Um. I've been in therapy for twenty years, you know, sometimes because I need it, but mostly just because I just love the education in a sense, you know, I mean, the human condition is extremely um important to me, you know, and understanding it and understanding who I am. Um, so I just I can relate to that discovery that's of self Joe. It's like there's a laziness. But when you're interested in who you are and what makes you tick, you know, you can tire that about saying that. Don't try to shame me, you just don't. You just don't respect you're game. You're just happy and you're a little midwestern home you know doing. I would just just say that, like you're not ready for the message yet, because at some point you will say I want to read this, or I'm gonna look up that, or I want to know more. And that's exactly how Phil would want it to be. Again, Like another thing that Phil would do is he'd give books. Every year. He picked like the longest road trip of the year. He would specifically pick out a book for each individual player and give them the book on this road trip. And you know, you have guys that would read the books, and then you'd have guys that would roll their eyes and never read it, or you know, make a joke or whatever. And I finally said, go, why do you go through this exercise when you have so many players that just kind of like, yeah, whatever and and throw it on their shelf and forget about it. And he said, because at some point they will pick up that book. It might be ten years from now, but the message is still the same. There's no time limit of what I'm trying to teach them. M M. Yeah, I'm falling in love with him. For God, he plays the long game, you know, he plays the long game. Uh said, I'm gonna read tonight. Let's let Jeanie go hold on. I have a couple more questions because it's just this is like a dream of mine to talk to you. Um, first of all, role models do you have growing up? Did you have role models you know, um that you sort of looked up to? And who were they? Um? Billy jene King? Luckily like I was a person that got to meet her when I was a teenager and she meant her me And is you know still somebody that I call and and really, UM, so proud to call her a friend of mine because she really changed so many things. She she broke glass ceilings and and was never afraid, never look back, fearless, so she is. Do you see yourself as a role model for women? Um? I don't. I can't say that about myself and except I know what it meant for me as a young person to look at people in positions like mine. So if that makes me a role model, great, But I would say that my career path isn't like if someone is looking at me as a role model, they should look at it as um, you know, not taking the like career path that I did. And I only say that because I posed in Playboy, and it doesn't mean like to get into my position, you should pose a Playboy because me posing a Playboy had nothing to do with business. That was like a personal decision. So I don't I don't want to say, oh, everybody needs to pose and Playboy and that's not the case. But by the way, how did your dad deal with that? My dad, like, as you know, again one of the most brilliant people he had, he gave a quote that was so perfect where he said, um, it will be the first issue of Playboy magazine I've never read so, meaning he is endorsing the magazine. But it's I'm right, like he can like walk that fine line of not being judgmental or putting me down. And you know, when I posed, I was thirty two years old. So it wasn't like I was, you know, making a mistake that I didn't know what I was getting myself into. Like I was for me, I was at the maturity level that I could do it, and I was like every other model, I had to go through the test photo shoot and all that kind of stuff. It was like my own personal goal, not anything to do with business or anything. Something I wanted to do. What an amazing quote. That's so great, a brilliant thing to say. But I don't know. But I don't feel like I feel like you have to throw that out as a disclaimer And I don't think you have to lug that around like that's something that you It's like, try being a woman. And God, I like my my Twitter avatar is a picture that I took for a story that ran in Sports Illustrated, and it's me holding two basketballs And can I take a second to explain this whole picture? Because Sports Illustrated was doing an article about my entire family and about like who you know, all the siblings and my dad and kind of like what the future was looking like and whatever, and so some people were afraid that it was going to be like a negative article, and you know, we didn't know which way it was going to go. So now they send a photographer to do the photos of you know, each of us individually. And so the photographer came to my house and he explains, he pitches to me what the photo is going to be, and I go, are you crazy? I said, we don't even know what this article is going to be. And that's gonna like you're you're you're mocking me. You're like, you're and he's like, look, I'm really sorry. I don't know who you are. I'm not a sports fan. I'm know. He goes, I do fashion photography and for whatever reason, they hired me to take your picture. And the only requirement that they gave me was that I had to have basketballs in the picture. And he said, so, he goes, I looked at some pin ups and so and so he and so. Then he explains to me the artistic part of it, and I was like, oh, a pin up picture, for sure, I would love to do that. That sounds fun and like creative and different. And it was like it was kind of like I was like a mermaid underwater with a blue backdrop. And then it's like they used to show mermaids holding pearls like like this right, and and so instead of the pearls, I got basketballs and I'm not naked, but it might look like I'm naked the way I was laying, you know whatever. But I it's like, I get people like, how dare you put a naked picture of you on Twitter? And it's from Playboy and it's not. It was from Sports Illustrated, like and so everybody's judge and jury in their own mind, it gets that we all, you know, just let it go. I'm yeah, but that's it is. And so that's what I'm saying. It's like, I, yes, do I have to like talk about the Playboy and the decision. Yes, I'm still explaining it twenty years later that people, you know, they want to judge and you know, put me in a category. But can I, like, before we switched subjects, can I just say, like we brought up Succession. There is a show that that is being developed on HBO. Yeah, but it's not We're not involved in it. Yes, it's inspired by our story. But like I always thought that if they ever did a show based, you know, with a character like me, that I would think that Kate would play me. Well, can we have this conversation for real? Because Kate would literally like and she like, it's like that's it's she would be perfect because she could play a team and she can play over for me. So but I mean, you know what I mean, because it's like, literally the story starts when I'm eighteen and my dad buys the Lakers and Magic's a rookie that year to like, you know, me hiring Magic, you know, thirty years later to every age without a lot of makeup. Oh, that's that's perfect. But I feel maybe to doing that project. No, you will, you have to. It's got to be that's great. It got to be a choice. That's a good choice. Oh of course, without a doubt. Oh god, now now you got my mind thinking about that whole thing. That would be amazing. Brother. Yeah, yes I will. Oliver is trying to figure out what he gets out of it. No, just no, no, I'll play. I can, I'll play like a ball boy. We can't. We can't like make you feel Jackson or anything that would. Yeah, Katie on like dating each other on screen? Yeah, did you ever want to have kids? Janie? Or I saw where you you referenced your marriage one time and you said, I, I just didn't give it the time I needed. I was always leaning more towards the business side. Is that? Yeah? I mean I I really wished I would have had a child with self, Like I wish that would have happen, but it didn't happen for me. And really, you know, the team became like our children. Like that was you know, um taking care of you know, these these wonderful players that you know that that will be part of my life for the rest of my life. Pal and Sasha and Meta and you know Lamar and all those guys. Sasha, where about you? You would be perfect. I'll play Sasha. Sasha. Sasha has his own winery. Everybody should check it out. It's his wine is called Alexander with an ass instead of an X, but it's he has his own winery. Um, and forget exactly what a great role player he was. Oh my god, jeez. Um. All right, well we end by asking um a question. It's sort of a two parter. So from your father, the things that you have gotten from him genetically, you know, just a piece of him. What is that thing that you are so grateful that you have, and then what is something that you wish that you didn't have? Wise from a DNA genetic standpoint, Well, it's funny because he he tried to teach me how to play poker, and I am the worst poker phase like, I can't bluff, I'm not a good liar, not like and so he would. My dad was a poker players. I guess I wish I could play poker, but he always told me, he said, what I'm worried about, and the reason I want to teach you poker is that, you know, his philosophy was like, you have to be extremely patient playing poker. You have to wait for the cards. And he said most people can't do it. They get anxious and they have to do it fast, trying to like create winning out of not having the right cards right. So he said, but he goes, so I know you have the patients. What I don't know if you have is that if you get the cards right and you can make a move, if you will switch gears fast enough, because when you when you got the cards, you gotta go all in right. And I feel that as hard as it was to trade the young players that we had for Anthony, Davis. We like that was the moment that my dad said, I don't know if you're going to be able to pull pull it off, like if you're going to have the guts to floor it. And that was really really hard for me because we had this great young nucleus of talent that we all were you know, loving and protecting and nurturing. But to get something of really great value, you got to give up something of really great value. And that to me was like the moment where it was like, yes, let's do it. Put the metal, you know, the pedal to the metal. Do you actually did you hear your dad saying that to you when that came to pass? Yeah, because it's like how did that ever? How did he know that at some point there'll be a day where it's like I'm going to have to push myself because that's not my nature. I'm not I'm not a like a game alert, I'm not a risk achre. I'm a very conservative approach. Get all the information, be thoughtful, have purpose, and then make your decision. But something like that is like, I mean, you know, like any of you put in that position, it's a hard it's a hard do you was there a moment during it. Was there a moment you remember we're like, Okay, screw it, I'm doing it. I'm no more in decision boom. Was there that moment or was it a process? More of a process? It was we just knew like we were heading to that path, So it was a process. It was. But after Kauai, So Kauai came in and did you think that that was going to happen? Um? Yeah, I mean I we were very sincere in our efforts to try to get Kauai, and you know, we felt that that was something that he was and he was obviously interested because he wanted to meet with us. But as it turns out, he made the choice that was right for him. But it was it was very Um, it was difficult to go through that process because we were waiting the waiting game and you know, we were missing out on other players. We could have missed out on other players. But I think once he made his decision, Rob Polinka really like turned and got the work done and put together a really terrific roster. And how do you feel about the Clippers? Um, you know, it's the Clippers are one of the teams that's trying to beat us, So you know, they're a competitor, and I want to be all of the other teams in putting, including Michael Jordan's team in Charlotte and friends in Boston and in milanch So yeah, yeah, but I feel like the Clippers Lakers could turn out to be a great rivalry. I mean, is the way the teams are built right now, at least there's a there's I think there's some years where it could turn into something really special. It feels like it has that it could be that. Yeah. I mean, I think you can't build a rivalry until there is a rivalry. And I mean that from like we've never played them in the playoffs, whereas with Boston we can go back and go remember when this happened, Remember when that happened, you know, and all of our playoff experience against Boston. Then then it all that's a rivalry because you're you, you got a history, like we just haven't had a history with the Clippers in the playoffs. Would you say, and now I'm getting off on my Lakers tangent. Now I'll stop, but would you okay, I'm just one one more thing. Would you say that Sacramento series that gate went to Game seven overtime. Sacramento series was one of the great Laker playoff series ever. I mean it was that Robert Are shot double. I think it was a double overtime Game seven. Yeah. Well, I mean you were talking about like the like similarities between Michael and Kobe. Well, during that series, Kobe got food poisoning from a Hamburger that he ordered room service. So I'm like, oh my god, the pizza was it was It wasn't blue? Yeah, No, I remember. I remember that. It was this whole speculation that like, oh they poisoned him, they actually gave him food. I never thought i'd see Oliver turn into Chris Farley on SNL talking to Paul McCartney like about his time in the Beatles, like remember that time when you guys sang let it do a stupid question. No, but I was saying, that's the greatest playoff series I think I've ever seen. It was. It was just phenomenal. The whole thing was just on another level for me, just incredible. I think. I know. Listen, here's what you know, Go go go. Dad's exact quote about poker was the poker's about perseverance and and that I think describes you. You've gone from somebody who started at nineteen while at USC and I have a twenty year old at USC and air quotes because we're not really at school, uh, but being a GM of a team too. Now basically forty years later, as an executive in sports, you've gone from you know, a female executive in sports. To take the female part out of it, it's not relevant anymore. You're just a longstanding executive in professional sports now, and that you know that would make your dad so proud, and the decisions that you've made and restoring the Lakers, and let's hope that we all get back to to basketball and the season so you can finish what you started this year. But I just have a feeling that your dad would be proud of of the decisiveness with which you've run these last few years here building towards this time. So I hope you take some some piece and some solace from that, knowing that that you're doing his name and his work proud. Yes, and then so finish it off, though you've got to answer the second half of that question is what is there? What is that thing about your dad that you wish you just did not have, whether it be you know, impatience or whatever that that bus trade. You're like, oh like I like, oh my gosh, Candy, I'm like a bad and and and that's like everybody talked about in his sweet you have the bowl of skittles and you know, milk goods and red vines and all on stuff at a game and yeah, now you taught me that too. Well good, well, thank you, Jeannie. This has been like super special for me. Joe, thank you for listening to me. Get all lakeery. No, it's just it's great. I am so excited. And then I know I'm to talk to my sister. We're gonna get this whole thing going. You know. Well, thank you, thank you for your time. And I feel like it was a therapy session. Jenny. Thank you Jeannie. That was fun. Brother. You know, I gotta give you ship. When you're doing the fanboy stuff, that was awesome. I think you broke her. Did you have the potential to broker a deal? Like what would your cut be if if Kate ends up getting some HBO thing, I'd produce it, you know, and uh, that would be amazing though. Meant the story of the bus family, you know, and the the the the ascent of the Lakers. But it would have to be done, you know, on the up and up, with their permission and with access. Yeah, I forgot sucking ask something. I knew it. It doesn't matter. Well, you know that they filmed Kobe season, his final season, like like sort of like the Last Dance. You know, they filmed they had like crazy acts s to Kobe's final season. So there's so many more questions I wanted to ask and get all Laker Laker fans. We were on for an hour and a half. I feel like she needed a break. I think she was ready to go. She liked talking, it was fun. She was great. But that's the thing, you know. I remember Tim McCarver on a baseball game we did in the World Series, I think it was two thousand thirteen, and then our opening on camera said, Michael Waka has gone from being a good young picture to being a good picture. And the point was there was always this disclaimer like for all young guys. I mean, he's a good picture, but I was just a good picture. And and that was within the course of a season. And that's the same for her forever, you know, female executive, female executive. They don't say it to the men, you know, male executive. They So she was kind of the anomaly and very pioneering and groundbreaking. And now she's you know, like I said, I mean, forty years doing something and following in her father's footsteps, and and you know way more about it than I do. But going from where they've been the last few years to where they seemed to be now is really a feather in her cap. God, I know. And how she took over operations and turned that ship around because her brother, I think his Jim was not was It just didn't feel like he had his heart in it. I don't know, it didn't feel like it was you know, it just didn't have the same feeling. And then she take tough position to be in right, to to be the one kind of tabbed amongst six kids. Yeah that you're you're the golden one, and it's hard for everybody else to take of course, of course, but she's so uh, she's so humble and sweet and present, and I think she's awesome. She was great. I could have I could have asked a thousand fucking questions. That's the thing with these podcasts. I mean, there's no beginning and end. It's not I love it. And yet you feel like at some point when to go, Okay, let him up where we've kept him, held him hostage for an hour? I know, but we got to a lot of we got to a lot of things. I think it seems so regretful. I hate I don't like I'm not regretful. I just wanted to ask about Kobe's last game and the sixty point when I have all the thing you and I. That's the only NBA game I've probably watched the beginning the last I watch up. You and I watched Kobe's last game together in Cobbo with her wives. Remember how crazy I was getting. Oh my god, I thought you were going to break stuff, crying and rolling around. I was crying. We didn't even we didn't even talk about that. Well we're talking about it now. Yeah. But with her waiting, what's she's supposed to say? Oh great, what she's supposed to say, She's just supposed to she'll like realize, like, how much how much I care about? What are you angling for? What do you want? I want? Yeah? On the phone a season parking path. That's all that's like gold. I want her to I just wanted to like me. I want her to get off of them. She does zoom and be like God that Oliver, what a great man he is, you know? Yeah, and you think that that you roll around on the floor and Kobe's last game would have sent it over the top. Yeah. I wanted to let her know that I cry a lot and so she knows that I'm sensitive. Okay, Well, if we talked about my supposed crush on Nicky Glazer, I think you're venturing into the category against with Genie. Oh, I have a for sure crush on Jennie without a doubt, for sure, I will I will admit that, admit that right here on air. You know I have a crush on Genie bus for sure that and you're willing to say that with a fare a gun in the background of your shot back there there it is. Yeah, the guns should Sports should sponsor the show? Um? Well, yet another great episode. Joe Buck, thank you for being you, and goodnight from Cincinnati.