Data teams obsess over pipelines and platforms but often skip the most fundamental step: truly understanding what people are actually asking for. We chat with data librarians Jenna Jordan and Amalia Child who share a framework for exactly that; it's called the reference interview, and it might be the most practical toolkit data teams have never used.

Data teams obsess over pipelines and platforms but often skip the most fundamental step: truly understanding what people are actually asking for. We chat with data librarians Jenna Jordan and Amalia Child who share a framework for exactly that; it's called the reference interview, and it might be the most practical toolkit data teams have never used.

Catalog and Cocktails is the honest, No-BS, non-sales-y podcast about data and analytics. This is your unfiltered chat about everything interesting in data and analytics. Join Juan Sequeda and Tim Gasper to explore emerging topics and hear from thought leaders, practitioners and executives across the data and analytics space.

Catalog and Cocktails is the honest, No-BS, non-sales-y podcast about data and analytics. This is your unfiltered chat about everything interesting in data and analytics. Join Juan Sequeda and Tim Gasper to explore emerging topics and hear from thought leaders, practitioners and executives across the data and analytics space.

Catalog & Cocktails: The Honest, No-BS Data Podcast

ServiceNow Podcast Program is a collection of podcast shows hosted by various ServiceNow experts and professionals covering different focus areas and a broad variety of topics. Come listen to our experts talk about what's going on at ServiceNow. Join the conversation!

Visit the Now Community forums

ServiceNow Podcast Program is a collection of podcast shows hosted by various ServiceNow experts and professionals covering different focus areas and a broad variety of topics. Come listen to our experts talk about what's going on at ServiceNow. Join the conversation!
<a href="https://community.servicenow.com/community">Visit the Now Community forums</a>

ServiceNow Podcasts

TAKEAWAY - Think Like a Librarian: Why the Reference Interview Is the Framework Data Teams Are Missing with Jenna Jordan and Amalia Child 

Can't believe it's already been 6 years. Thank you to our amazing guests and specially our listeners. In this season finale episode, Juan and Tim rant about the honest no-bs discussions they've had in 2026 and what are the topics they are looking forward to cover in the next season. 

Can't believe it's already been 6 years. Thank you to our amazing guests and specially our listeners. In this season finale episode, Juan and Tim rant about the honest no-bs discussions they've had in 2026 and what are the topics they are looking forward to cover in the next season.&nbsp;

6th YEAR SEASON FINALE: Juan and Tim Rant

Jason Doerr has spent years watching governance programs undermine themselves by cataloging everything without a use case, naming data stewards who have nothing to actually do, and building central teams that become blockers instead of enablers. In this episode, he walks through what pragmatic governance actually looks like: start with use cases, give stewards real work to action on, and let the central team set principles rather than police behavior. He also digs into PADU (Preferred, Acceptable, Discouraged, Unacceptable) as a practical roadmap framework, how LLMs can accelerate semantic layer creation without generating vanity metrics, and why the governance operating model is shifting toward agentic management ... whether the governance community is ready for it or not.

Jason Doerr has spent years watching governance programs undermine themselves by cataloging everything without a use case, naming data stewards who have nothing to actually do, and building central teams that become blockers instead of enablers. In this episode, he walks through what pragmatic governance actually looks like: start with use cases, give stewards real work to action on, and let the central team set principles rather than police behavior. He also digs into PADU (Preferred, Acceptable, Discouraged, Unacceptable) as a practical roadmap framework, how LLMs can accelerate semantic layer creation without generating vanity metrics, and why the governance operating model is shifting toward agentic management ... whether the governance community is ready for it or not.

Pragmatic Use-Case-Driven Data Governance with Jason Doerr

This is the takeaway episode with Jason Doerr who has spent years watching governance programs undermine themselves. He walks through what pragmatic governance actually looks like and digs into PADU (Preferred, Acceptable, Discouraged, Unacceptable) as a practical roadmap framework. 

This is the takeaway episode with Jason Doerr who has spent years watching governance programs undermine themselves. He walks through what pragmatic governance actually looks like and digs into PADU (Preferred, Acceptable, Discouraged, Unacceptable) as a practical roadmap framework.&nbsp;

TAKEAWAY - Think Like a Librarian: Why the Reference Interview Is the Framework Data Teams Are Missing with Jenna Jordan and Amalia Child

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Catalog & Cocktails: The Honest, No-BS Data Podcast

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