Dr. Irina Steenbeek is a data practitioner, and author of multiple books including Data Lineage from a Business Perspective. In this episode, Juan and Tim discuss with Irina the practical realities of implementing data lineage and its relationship to Data and AI governance. For example, do you really need to have a comprehensive technical lineage? A lot of honest no-bs nuggets in this episode!

Dr. Irina Steenbeek is a data practitioner, and author of multiple books including Data Lineage from a Business Perspective. In this episode, Juan and Tim discuss with Irina the practical realities of implementing data lineage and its relationship to Data and AI governance. For example, do you really need to have a comprehensive technical lineage? A lot of honest no-bs nuggets in this episode!

Catalog and Cocktails is the honest, No-BS, non-sales-y podcast about data and analytics. This is your unfiltered chat about everything interesting in data and analytics. Join Juan Sequeda and Tim Gasper to explore emerging topics and hear from thought leaders, practitioners and executives across the data and analytics space.

Catalog and Cocktails is the honest, No-BS, non-sales-y podcast about data and analytics. This is your unfiltered chat about everything interesting in data and analytics. Join Juan Sequeda and Tim Gasper to explore emerging topics and hear from thought leaders, practitioners and executives across the data and analytics space.

Catalog & Cocktails: The Honest, No-BS Data Podcast

ServiceNow Podcast Program is a collection of podcast shows hosted by various ServiceNow experts and professionals covering different focus areas and a broad variety of topics. Come listen to our experts talk about what's going on at ServiceNow. Join the conversation!

Visit the Now Community forums

ServiceNow Podcast Program is a collection of podcast shows hosted by various ServiceNow experts and professionals covering different focus areas and a broad variety of topics. Come listen to our experts talk about what's going on at ServiceNow. Join the conversation!
<a href="https://community.servicenow.com/community">Visit the Now Community forums</a>

ServiceNow Podcasts

All things Data Lineage with Dr. Irina Steenbeek

Tim and Juan unpack why Vaibhav Gupta, co-creator of BAML, states that most agentic AI code out there is dumb. It's ugly, fragile, and built by people who've never had to wrestle with probabilistic systems before. But here's the thing: we've seen this movie before. Remember when building websites was painful? Then jQuery showed up... then React... then Tailwind. Abstraction always wins. It just takes time (and about 50 bad frameworks for every good one). The gaming industry also figured out about unreliable systems decades ago. The takeaway is that the real bottleneck isn't abstracting the AI, instead it's abstracting the failure. Oh, and this episode has a live demo (first time we ever do this!). 

Tim and Juan unpack why Vaibhav Gupta, co-creator of BAML, states that most agentic AI code out there is&nbsp;dumb. It's ugly, fragile, and built by people who've never had to wrestle with probabilistic systems before. But here's the thing: we've seen this movie before. Remember when building websites was painful? Then jQuery showed up... then React... then Tailwind. Abstraction always wins. It just takes time (and about 50 bad frameworks for every good one). The gaming industry also figured out about unreliable systems decades ago. The takeaway is that the real bottleneck isn't abstracting the AI, instead it's abstracting the failure. Oh, and this episode has a live demo (first time we ever do this!).&nbsp;

The way we build agents today is dumb with Vaibhav Gupta

This is the takeaway episode with Vaibhav Gupta, co-creator of BAML, where we unpack why most agentic AI code out there is dumb. If you like what you hear, you should listen to the full episode. 

This is the takeaway episode with Vaibhav Gupta, co-creator of BAML, where we unpack why most agentic AI code out there is dumb. If you like what you hear, you should listen to the full episode.&nbsp;

TAKEAWAY - The way we build agents today is dumb with Vaibhav Gupta

Juan and Tim grab a beer and rant about decision intelligence and context graphs, MCP vs Skills, and how companies really have a work problem (not a data/AI problem) and what is the maturity model to get that work done

Juan and Tim grab a beer and rant about decision intelligence and context graphs, MCP vs Skills, and how companies really have a work problem (not a data/AI problem) and what is the maturity model to get that work done

All things Data Lineage with Dr. Irina Steenbeek

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Catalog & Cocktails: The Honest, No-BS Data Podcast

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