On another story that's gotten a lot of attention this morning, this incredible headline that the Trump administration accidentally texted me its war plans. Have to ask, Steven, have you inadvertently ever been added to a group chat that you didn't want to be in group chat?

On another story that's gotten a lot of attention this morning, this incredible headline that the Trump administration accidentally texted me its war plans. Have to ask, Steven, have you inadvertently ever been added to a group chat that you didn't want to be in group chat?

I mean generally when anyone answered to any group chat, I kind of eye roll and then mute.

I mean generally when anyone answered to any group chat, I kind of eye roll and then mute.

It made it forever.

It made it forever.

Had it been had it been me and not Jeffrey Goldberg, perhaps things could have been very different. But it is an incredible story in the Atlantic and his account of how he was added to this group. He thought it was a hoax, as we heard from him, but followed it through and was only really able to clarify that this was serious when after the strikes happen that we're talking about actually happened. Of course, the questions now as to the nature of the national security breach, why high level officials are using this app, and certainly some interesting commentary to to be digested by European leaders. Let's get into it with our senior editor Bill Ferries and our managing editor for European Economics and Government, Ben Sills. Bill to christ how damaging is this league for the white eyes.

Had it been had it been me and not Jeffrey Goldberg, perhaps things could have been very different. But it is an incredible story in the Atlantic and his account of how he was added to this group. He thought it was a hoax, as we heard from him, but followed it through and was only really able to clarify that this was serious when after the strikes happen that we're talking about actually happened. Of course, the questions now as to the nature of the national security breach, why high level officials are using this app, and certainly some interesting commentary to to be digested by European leaders. Let's get into it with our senior editor Bill Ferries and our managing editor for European Economics and Government, Ben Sills. Bill to christ how damaging is this league for the white eyes.

Well, for starters, it's just hugely embarrassing. I mean when you look at you know, President Trump fought off accusations that he was improperly storing classified material in at his Florida resort for years, and he ran his original campaign partly on criticism of Hillary Clinton's shoddy handling of classified material and and her decision to use a private server to look at State Department documents at home. So these are folks who have really kind of you know, run their political careers on their attention to classified regulations and keeping secure documents safe. And so to have this have this pop up on a you know, on a commercial messaging app that includes a senior editor and an editor who Trump has a kind of a negative reaction to. Anyways, it's just it's hugelymbarrassing. But it also just raises very practical questions about, you know, has this been occurring elsewhere? Has there been a regular sharing of top secret material on these kind of systems, and who else has perhaps seen some of these things?

Well, for starters, it's just hugely embarrassing. I mean when you look at you know, President Trump fought off accusations that he was improperly storing classified material in at his Florida resort for years, and he ran his original campaign partly on criticism of Hillary Clinton's shoddy handling of classified material and and her decision to use a private server to look at State Department documents at home. So these are folks who have really kind of you know, run their political careers on their attention to classified regulations and keeping secure documents safe. And so to have this have this pop up on a you know, on a commercial messaging app that includes a senior editor and an editor who Trump has a kind of a negative reaction to. Anyways, it's just it's hugelymbarrassing. But it also just raises very practical questions about, you know, has this been occurring elsewhere? Has there been a regular sharing of top secret material on these kind of systems, and who else has perhaps seen some of these things?

Right? Hugely embarrassing, yes, for the US administration. But what does Europe think all this? Let's bring that question to Ben Sils. There's been a lot of criticism of Europe in that text exchange, including describing European countries as freeloading. How are these comments going to be read in Europe?

Right? Hugely embarrassing, yes, for the US administration. But what does Europe think all this? Let's bring that question to Ben Sils. There's been a lot of criticism of Europe in that text exchange, including describing European countries as freeloading. How are these comments going to be read in Europe?

I think they'll find them quite useful in Europe, to be honest, we know JD. Vance's views on Europe from his lacerating speech to the Munich Security Conference a few weeks ago, So there's nothing really surprising in here. I think that we're seeing in Europe. There's a debate about how far how fast European nations are prepared to go in terms of their funding for defense, and that's all about establishing a degree of independence from the US as quickly as possible. And these comments are going to be helpful for the more hawkish members, you know, participants in that conversation, to encourage the more cautious leaders, perhaps those who think there's still potential to salvage something from this relationship with the Trump White House. I think we'll encourage the more hawkish out of that debate, say come on, we've got we've got we've got to cough up, and we've got we've got to sort this out ourselves.

I think they'll find them quite useful in Europe, to be honest, we know JD. Vance's views on Europe from his lacerating speech to the Munich Security Conference a few weeks ago, So there's nothing really surprising in here. I think that we're seeing in Europe. There's a debate about how far how fast European nations are prepared to go in terms of their funding for defense, and that's all about establishing a degree of independence from the US as quickly as possible. And these comments are going to be helpful for the more hawkish members, you know, participants in that conversation, to encourage the more cautious leaders, perhaps those who think there's still potential to salvage something from this relationship with the Trump White House. I think we'll encourage the more hawkish out of that debate, say come on, we've got we've got we've got to cough up, and we've got we've got to sort this out ourselves.

Does it really go that much further? Than what we've heard from Trump administration officials already in terms of their attitudes towards Europe. The present themselves hasn't been shy of saying that Europe needs to step up.

Does it really go that much further? Than what we've heard from Trump administration officials already in terms of their attitudes towards Europe. The present themselves hasn't been shy of saying that Europe needs to step up.

I don't think it goes further. I think I think it's just you know, when you hear people speaking frankly in what they believe to be a private group, you get a sense of the tone the languages really is really derogatory, really dismissive. And I think that in that respect it leaves the US looking extremely, extremely bad, extremely kind of kind of small mind. And I think in that respect, but in terms of the substance it doesn't go a lot than what we've seen before.

I don't think it goes further. I think I think it's just you know, when you hear people speaking frankly in what they believe to be a private group, you get a sense of the tone the languages really is really derogatory, really dismissive. And I think that in that respect it leaves the US looking extremely, extremely bad, extremely kind of kind of small mind. And I think in that respect, but in terms of the substance it doesn't go a lot than what we've seen before.

Bill, what has the current response from the White House been?

Bill, what has the current response from the White House been?

Well, it's interesting. I mean, you had Pete Haigs at the Defense Secretary landing in Hawaii on a work trip and he said, well, nobody quote, nobody was texting war plans. But over at the National Security Council, the spokesman there, Brian Hughes, basically said that the message appears to be authentic. When you read Jeffrey Goldberg's story, you realize he leaves a lot out or he says he left a lot out, that there were details in that messaging group, very specific details about the types of weapons that would be used, how they're getting some of their information. There was the name of a CIA agent who was going to be included in some of the discussions that he left out. So it goes a lot deeper. It appears to go a lot deeper than what he just puts in the story. So it's not just the derogatory comments about Europe and kind of the shock about them having this discuss over Signal, but it really gets into material that is normally only discussed, for instance, in the tank, the secure room at the Pentagon, or in other secure facilities around Washington. It's not something that goes public. So the reaction is basically the public reaction, I think is still going to unfold. There's going to be a real question about whether someone like National Security Advisor Mike Waltz keeps his job or not going forward. He is the one, according to the article, that kind of created this group on Signal.

Well, it's interesting. I mean, you had Pete Haigs at the Defense Secretary landing in Hawaii on a work trip and he said, well, nobody quote, nobody was texting war plans. But over at the National Security Council, the spokesman there, Brian Hughes, basically said that the message appears to be authentic. When you read Jeffrey Goldberg's story, you realize he leaves a lot out or he says he left a lot out, that there were details in that messaging group, very specific details about the types of weapons that would be used, how they're getting some of their information. There was the name of a CIA agent who was going to be included in some of the discussions that he left out. So it goes a lot deeper. It appears to go a lot deeper than what he just puts in the story. So it's not just the derogatory comments about Europe and kind of the shock about them having this discuss over Signal, but it really gets into material that is normally only discussed, for instance, in the tank, the secure room at the Pentagon, or in other secure facilities around Washington. It's not something that goes public. So the reaction is basically the public reaction, I think is still going to unfold. There's going to be a real question about whether someone like National Security Advisor Mike Waltz keeps his job or not going forward. He is the one, according to the article, that kind of created this group on Signal.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Indeed, and also be interesting to monitor what the Republican Party more broadly says about this as well. Of course, they've always painted themselves as the Party of National Securities. It doesn't look good from their point of view either.

Indeed, and also be interesting to monitor what the Republican Party more broadly says about this as well. Of course, they've always painted themselves as the Party of National Securities. It doesn't look good from their point of view either.

No, not at all. And the really interesting thing in terms of the timing is that I believe it's today in Washington, Tuesday, and Wednesday in Washington you have a previously scheduled hearing with the heads of the different intelligence agencies that includes Tulci Gabbert, the Director of National Intelligence. This is obviously going to be front and center when they talk about this meeting about worldwide threats. The first question is going to be has the you know, the Republican administration here in this case put out information that we don't want our adversaries to know about. So that's going to be very interesting to watch, going to be must CTV.

No, not at all. And the really interesting thing in terms of the timing is that I believe it's today in Washington, Tuesday, and Wednesday in Washington you have a previously scheduled hearing with the heads of the different intelligence agencies that includes Tulci Gabbert, the Director of National Intelligence. This is obviously going to be front and center when they talk about this meeting about worldwide threats. The first question is going to be has the you know, the Republican administration here in this case put out information that we don't want our adversaries to know about. So that's going to be very interesting to watch, going to be must CTV.

I think, Ben, do you think this raises intelligence sharing fears around Europe that intel shared with America might not be safe?

I think, Ben, do you think this raises intelligence sharing fears around Europe that intel shared with America might not be safe?

One hundred percent? Yeah. I mean it's just shambolic and amateurs, isn't it. And if you are charged with handling information that could affect the well being of agents or allies operating in kind of hostile situations, you're going to be very worried about sharing that sort of information with them. With officials who handle their own comms and such a such a kind of cavalier fashion.

One hundred percent? Yeah. I mean it's just shambolic and amateurs, isn't it. And if you are charged with handling information that could affect the well being of agents or allies operating in kind of hostile situations, you're going to be very worried about sharing that sort of information with them. With officials who handle their own comms and such a such a kind of cavalier fashion.

Ben For many in Europe, watching this unfold comes as a bit of a side show to the bigger question of tariffs. Were of course looking forward to the President's announcements on the second of April. How will this feed into the conversation around how Europe could be hit by tariffs in the US.

Ben For many in Europe, watching this unfold comes as a bit of a side show to the bigger question of tariffs. Were of course looking forward to the President's announcements on the second of April. How will this feed into the conversation around how Europe could be hit by tariffs in the US.

That's a good question. I mean, I think that the European response on tariffs has been reasonably measured, But measured in this sense does mean if the US comes out with a maximalist tariff policy, then the Europeans have got similarly far reaching plans that they've already got drafted. So they are kind of stiffening the sinews at this point, bracing themselves to find out what exactly they're going to get next week. But they've got a full range of options lined up, and I think this will probably just serve as one more reminder that they need to stand up, stick together in order to push back against this administration.

That's a good question. I mean, I think that the European response on tariffs has been reasonably measured, But measured in this sense does mean if the US comes out with a maximalist tariff policy, then the Europeans have got similarly far reaching plans that they've already got drafted. So they are kind of stiffening the sinews at this point, bracing themselves to find out what exactly they're going to get next week. But they've got a full range of options lined up, and I think this will probably just serve as one more reminder that they need to stand up, stick together in order to push back against this administration.