Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. One product, though not seeing outflows lately, is black Rocks Tokenized Funded Biddle. The VON, which is exclusively on Securitize, is more than one point seven billion dollars in assets under management. Joining us for an exclusive conversation is Securitize CLO Michael Son and Shein. Michael, good to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg Crypto. How are you.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. One product, though not seeing outflows lately, is black Rocks Tokenized Funded Biddle. The VON, which is exclusively on Securitize, is more than one point seven billion dollars in assets under management. Joining us for an exclusive conversation is Securitize CLO Michael Son and Shein. Michael, good to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg Crypto. How are you.

I'm great, Thanks for having me.

I'm great, Thanks for having me.

Yeah, thanks for joining us. Hey, we're going to talk about securities in just a minute. First, I do want to talk about this moment in crypto because it has been a while since we spoke. When you were at Grayscale, you led the battle to create a spot at bitcoin ETF. Fast forward to today, you've got those spot bitcoin ets, You've got this new crypto friendly administration, potentially more crypto friendly sec We'll see what happens later this week. What is the opportunity that you see at this moment?

Yeah, thanks for joining us. Hey, we're going to talk about securities in just a minute. First, I do want to talk about this moment in crypto because it has been a while since we spoke. When you were at Grayscale, you led the battle to create a spot at bitcoin ETF. Fast forward to today, you've got those spot bitcoin ets, You've got this new crypto friendly administration, potentially more crypto friendly sec We'll see what happens later this week. What is the opportunity that you see at this moment?

I mean, it really is night and day. Right. When I was last here a couple months ago speaking to you, I would say that as an industry, crypto was still operating here in the US under a regime of regulation by enforcement. By and large, I think the crypto ecosystem is breathing some sigh of relief that perhaps that.

I mean, it really is night and day. Right. When I was last here a couple months ago speaking to you, I would say that as an industry, crypto was still operating here in the US under a regime of regulation by enforcement. By and large, I think the crypto ecosystem is breathing some sigh of relief that perhaps that.

Has ended right.

Has ended right.

We've seen a lot of lawsuits be dropped against crypto businesses. We've seen more businesses come to the US wanting to offer crypto products and services. We have a Head of Crypto at the White House, we have a Crypto task Force at the SEC that's meeting collaboratively with crypto businesses. And so to me, that combined with the executive branch of government that continues to come out publicly and say we want to make the US a crypto hub, a bitcoin hub of innovation, means that the opportunity around this assa class is going to be here in the US.

We've seen a lot of lawsuits be dropped against crypto businesses. We've seen more businesses come to the US wanting to offer crypto products and services. We have a Head of Crypto at the White House, we have a Crypto task Force at the SEC that's meeting collaboratively with crypto businesses. And so to me, that combined with the executive branch of government that continues to come out publicly and say we want to make the US a crypto hub, a bitcoin hub of innovation, means that the opportunity around this assa class is going to be here in the US.

I think there's a pretty direct connection to be made here in what might be possible in terms of tokenization. Executive after executive that we speak to speak to the idea of accredited investors and even a broader set to be able to have more access to companies or projects that are raising money in a tokenized manner. Private equity funds, venture capital funds. How big is that opportunity? How fast does it come?

I think there's a pretty direct connection to be made here in what might be possible in terms of tokenization. Executive after executive that we speak to speak to the idea of accredited investors and even a broader set to be able to have more access to companies or projects that are raising money in a tokenized manner. Private equity funds, venture capital funds. How big is that opportunity? How fast does it come?

It's coming very quickly. So at securit Ties we sit in a really interesting place. We are the largest tokenization platform out there. To date, we've brought almost two and a half billion dollars worth of assets, real world assets onto public blockchains. So we sit between asset issuers like black Rock and Apollo, KKR, Hamilton Lane in public blockchains, Polygon, Ethereum, Avalanche, et cetera. And so for those that want to bring their investment offerings on chain in a compliance secure way, they're often coming to Securititize. Now the real question is why right. For a lot of folks, it could be democratizing access to the investments, Like you mentioned private credits, something that historically has only been available to a small subset of investors. But I think we share a burden in the tokenization space that we want to make the investor experience objectively better. So that could be daily dividends, it could be instant liquidity. It could be things that investors aren't getting in their traditional counterparts that only this technology allows it.

It's coming very quickly. So at securit Ties we sit in a really interesting place. We are the largest tokenization platform out there. To date, we've brought almost two and a half billion dollars worth of assets, real world assets onto public blockchains. So we sit between asset issuers like black Rock and Apollo, KKR, Hamilton Lane in public blockchains, Polygon, Ethereum, Avalanche, et cetera. And so for those that want to bring their investment offerings on chain in a compliance secure way, they're often coming to Securititize. Now the real question is why right. For a lot of folks, it could be democratizing access to the investments, Like you mentioned private credits, something that historically has only been available to a small subset of investors. But I think we share a burden in the tokenization space that we want to make the investor experience objectively better. So that could be daily dividends, it could be instant liquidity. It could be things that investors aren't getting in their traditional counterparts that only this technology allows it.

To be on your partner Really over here, black Rock, when it comes to this tokenized treasury fund, Blackrock CEO Larry Fink at Davos said this, it caught a lot of attention. My god, if we can tokenize bonds and stocks tomorrow, it would democratize investing in all ways we can't imagine. And I think that just shows you part of what he's seeing down the road. Sure, but let's just start what you have right now. I mean the idea of tokenized treasuries. Why why buy into this fund relative to a money market fund or even a stable coin. There's a spectrum of investments to choose from.

To be on your partner Really over here, black Rock, when it comes to this tokenized treasury fund, Blackrock CEO Larry Fink at Davos said this, it caught a lot of attention. My god, if we can tokenize bonds and stocks tomorrow, it would democratize investing in all ways we can't imagine. And I think that just shows you part of what he's seeing down the road. Sure, but let's just start what you have right now. I mean the idea of tokenized treasuries. Why why buy into this fund relative to a money market fund or even a stable coin. There's a spectrum of investments to choose from.

Sure, So there's a couple of dimensions to look at this. So if you take a money market fund today, for instance, investors maybe only getting their dividends monthly. Investors have to submit in order to buy or sell the money market fund or treasury fund by a certain cutoff time each day. The fund may not be open obviously, usually on weekends, et cetera. By contrast, you look at the product that we have with Blackrock Fiddle, there's twenty four to seven three sixty five liquidity, daily dividend accrules, instant subscriptions and redemptions. You know, this is objectively a better investor experience, and we're starting to see people really think about money market funds in a different way, using it as collateral things that they just don't typically think about when they think about the traditional counterpart.

Sure, So there's a couple of dimensions to look at this. So if you take a money market fund today, for instance, investors maybe only getting their dividends monthly. Investors have to submit in order to buy or sell the money market fund or treasury fund by a certain cutoff time each day. The fund may not be open obviously, usually on weekends, et cetera. By contrast, you look at the product that we have with Blackrock Fiddle, there's twenty four to seven three sixty five liquidity, daily dividend accrules, instant subscriptions and redemptions. You know, this is objectively a better investor experience, and we're starting to see people really think about money market funds in a different way, using it as collateral things that they just don't typically think about when they think about the traditional counterpart.

But how does that open it up to more people? How does it democratize this because it's pretty easy to use any sort of app be it robin Hood, Schwab, Fidelity and more, and go and buy any of these assets that you're talking about, Sayer Venture Capital.

But how does that open it up to more people? How does it democratize this because it's pretty easy to use any sort of app be it robin Hood, Schwab, Fidelity and more, and go and buy any of these assets that you're talking about, Sayer Venture Capital.

So I think in the terms of a tokenized treasury or money market fund, it's actually about connecting that collateral in a way that people aren't typically used to using it. So today I think a lot of investors' mindsets may be I have some spare cash, I'm going to make it interest bearing by putting it into a money market fund or put it into treasuries. But today those assets in those products aren't connected or utilized in the world of DEFIVE, for example, Whereas if you're doing this on chain, it allows you to use that collateral to post on an exchange, to post as collateral with an OTC desk, or even link it to the world of DeFi.

So I think in the terms of a tokenized treasury or money market fund, it's actually about connecting that collateral in a way that people aren't typically used to using it. So today I think a lot of investors' mindsets may be I have some spare cash, I'm going to make it interest bearing by putting it into a money market fund or put it into treasuries. But today those assets in those products aren't connected or utilized in the world of DEFIVE, for example, Whereas if you're doing this on chain, it allows you to use that collateral to post on an exchange, to post as collateral with an OTC desk, or even link it to the world of DeFi.

So how far does this go in your view? What ultimately gets tokenized? What do you want to get tokenized.

So how far does this go in your view? What ultimately gets tokenized? What do you want to get tokenized.

Well, it's a small but growing market. Right. The world of RWA's has more than doubled in the last year, and within that tokenized treasuries have actually expanded over five hundred percent. We've recently tokenized public equity on New York stock listed company Exodus. So we're starting to see movement beyond tokenized treasuries, movement beyond tokenized money market funds into things like public equities. But again, it's small, and you know, a lot of that momentum I think we'll continue to carry throughout this year.

Well, it's a small but growing market. Right. The world of RWA's has more than doubled in the last year, and within that tokenized treasuries have actually expanded over five hundred percent. We've recently tokenized public equity on New York stock listed company Exodus. So we're starting to see movement beyond tokenized treasuries, movement beyond tokenized money market funds into things like public equities. But again, it's small, and you know, a lot of that momentum I think we'll continue to carry throughout this year.

You know, I also want to just take another big picture of you for a moment, because you have the confirmation hearing for the incoming SEC chair Paul Atkins this week. From the seat that you're in, what are you looking for in terms of how he might lead the SEC?

You know, I also want to just take another big picture of you for a moment, because you have the confirmation hearing for the incoming SEC chair Paul Atkins this week. From the seat that you're in, what are you looking for in terms of how he might lead the SEC?

So again, it seems like gone are the days of regulation by enforcement, and so I think as long as we are continuing to proactively work as an industry with our regulators, we are unlocking new use cases around crypto every single day, and so it's really a burden that we have to share as an industry to continue to educate them. Right, if we're going to continue to expand access to our WA's, if we're going to revisit things like the accredited investor definition. All of these are the types of engagements that we certainly want to have with our regulator.

So again, it seems like gone are the days of regulation by enforcement, and so I think as long as we are continuing to proactively work as an industry with our regulators, we are unlocking new use cases around crypto every single day, and so it's really a burden that we have to share as an industry to continue to educate them. Right, if we're going to continue to expand access to our WA's, if we're going to revisit things like the accredited investor definition. All of these are the types of engagements that we certainly want to have with our regulator.

Do you ever get a little concern that this administration is too close to crypto? Given World Liberty Financial their entry into stable coins announced today, and then of course meme coins as well.

Do you ever get a little concern that this administration is too close to crypto? Given World Liberty Financial their entry into stable coins announced today, and then of course meme coins as well.

I wouldn't say that's a concern. I think it's certainly an area that has been nice and welcomed by both myself, my peers and peer businesses to see that level of collaboration.

I wouldn't say that's a concern. I think it's certainly an area that has been nice and welcomed by both myself, my peers and peer businesses to see that level of collaboration.

All right, Michael Sunshine of Securitized, good to see you, Good to see you.

All right, Michael Sunshine of Securitized, good to see you, Good to see you.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.