Join hosts Scarlet Fu and Damian Sassower for a look at some of the latest headlines and stories in the business of sports.
KLUTCH Sports Group founder and CEO Rich Paul joins to talk about his new memoir, "Lucky Me", his special relationship with Lebron James and the biggest issues facing today's athletes. Bloomberg US sports business reporter Randall Williams also joins the conversation.
Vince Gennaro, associate dean and clinical associate professor at the NYU Preston Robert Tisch Institute for Global Sport breaks down the impact of two-way baseball star Shohei Ohtani's record deal.
Plus, Bloomberg News senior reporter Gillian Tan reports on a Fenway Sports Group-led consortium entering final talks to be a US co-investors in the entity being formed by the PGA Tour, Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund and the DP World Tour.
This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports.
I'm Scarlett Food and I'm Damien SaaS Hour.
Michael Barr is off this week, and he is missing a big one because coming up we'll talk with Clutch Sports founder and sports agent extraordinary Rich Paul.
At the end of the day, I'm an entrepreneur. Yeah, you know, I can walk into bubble gum. At the same time, you know, the for those that I represent at a level on which any gram wants to align themselves with them, I'm gonna do the best job for the client.
Plus, we'll learn about a group of billionaires looking to become a co investor in the PGA Tour.
All that in Morris straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. But first, Damian, we got to talk show.
Hey O Tani, it's the greatest show. Hey on Earth, Scarlet. We've not seen a talent like him before, and now we've never seen a contract quite like this show.
Hey O Tani leads off the bottom of the sixth in catch the angels on the board.
For the thirtieth home run. This ball went four hundred ninety three feet.
He inked a ten years, seven hundred million dollar deal with the Los Angeles Dodgers. That is the richest sports contract in North American pro sports.
And Otani is planning to defer almost all his annual salary to give the Dodgers financial flexibility. So here and now to walk us through this groundbreaking deal is Vince Gennaro. He is Associate Dean and Clinical Associate Professor at the NYU Press and Robert Tish Institute for Global Sports. Vince, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Well, great to be on with you, Thanks for having me.
So seven hundred million dollars ten years. We know that he's deferring a lot of that salary because of the financial flexibility. There is a report that it actually works out to Otani taking home just two million dollars per season during that ten year span. Given where inflation is, doesn't Otani actually come out behind as a result.
Well, there's there's a couple of factors here. First of all, I have a sense that seven hundred million dollars number was a number, sort of a branding number that they wanted on this deal. But it is the most odd structure you you could have ever imagined for a for an athlete deal. He's going to be paid, as you said, two million dollars a year for the ten years that he's playing. Meanwhile, players out there of his caliber could be paid forty or fifty million dollars for that time per year. But he's being paid two million a year. Then in the ten years after the contract expires, he will be paid sixty eight million dollars a year. Now, there's a couple of things here. First of all, if you if you get the net present value of that deal, it plays a little bit more like a forty five million dollar a year deal over ten years paid out evenly forty five a year, right, so you know, the net present value is like three hundred and fifty million, three hundred and sixty million dollars depending on the discount used. But the other thing keep in mind here is that when he draws that sixty eight million, he probably will not be a resident of the state of Calibdar.
There we go, Vian.
It's a tax.
Yeah, yeah, you start to save that state income. Think of the boy, wouldn't we love to have his state income tax avoidance that he's not going to be paying as a as a as an annibal compensation. So so it's a it's a very unique deal. And in the end, coming in at what we would call a four hundred and fifty million dollars ten year deal, forty five million a year. Honestly, that's a little less than I thought he would get. And I'm sure he could have gotten a better, richer deal, but I'm sure he wanted to play.
In La So, Evince, let's talk about this for a little bit, because you're spot on right, and the hit to the Dodgers is forty six million dollars a year. I'm talking the luxury tax per year hit, right, And what I find most interesting about this is the Dodgers are required to place forty six million dollars a year in escrow to offset those future payments they need to make the show. Hey, TONI right? So you know, so one of the things I keep thinking about is, Okay, you know, what's what's the real risk here?
Right?
I mean, obviously there's a risk of inflation picking up or going down, and you know, you come out a little bit ahead or not, right, And obviously there's the tax trade that goes hand in hand with all this, Right, but riddle me this. I mean, isn't oh Tani taking a bit of default risk here? I mean, what if the Dodgers in the next decade spend wildly on players and realize that, you know, the future revenue for media rights or whatever just wasn't enough to offset you know, the price paid. I mean, can't they actually default and something happened where sho Hey actually doesn't get paid is six hundred and eighty million dollars?
You know, I think you have a point. I think the certainly the default risk is not is not zero, it's it exists. I don't know how to even begin to quantify that. I was actually wondering if if that sixty eight million per year over the outside out ten years was secured in any way. And you know, for example, I don't think they could do this and get this approved, but like equity of the club or something like that. Right, that doesn't ensure against bankruptcy because that may not you know, I don't know where you would line up as.
Right, right, you're not a controlling shareholder either. I mean, so this is all so interesting. I mean, they are going to have Harvard Business School studies on this fince as you well know, but you make a great point. I mean, look forward. You know, he's Tony's twenty nine years old. Fast forward to twenty thirty four, when that first sixty eight million dollar payment comes to, he's going to be forty years old. And I promise you he's going to be a full time resident living in a tax free jurisdiction like Bermuda the Cayman Islands. So it's just an unbelievable And by the way, if you think about it, Scarlett, you make you make a good point. There's really no term premium in the contract. So if his agent were really smart, maybe you should have built some sort of an interest rate ladder into these post contract payments.
Now, well, you know, I think he really he really did by adding having an add up to seven hundred million dollars. That's that's what the the in the premium is because because there's no way he was going to get a seven hundred million dollar contract. So I think I think there's a little bit of as I said earlier, branding in this number, because that's the biggest number that a North American athlete has ever taken in, and I think that was what was important. But in reality, he should think of this as more like a you know, forty five million dollar, forty six million dollars a year deal. That's more the reasonable interpretation of it.
Right.
He didn't even really make that five hundred million dollars ten year number, right, if you take it and you pressure value it, all right, that was kind of the whisky number.
So I like the angle of the tax obligations and everything. And we know plenty of people who have to sit there and count days that they're in certain states or certain countries for tax purposes. Do baseball players? Do professional athletes have to sit there and count how many days they play in California versus in Florida versus in New York, especially when you're talking about salary numbers this size.
Yeah, I believe there are tax specialists who who focus on specifically helping athletes prepare their taxes and understand their tax burdens and obligations. So when a player is playing in Saint Louis, he has a different for a three game series, he has a different tax obligation than if he's playing in California. So all that is addressed, it gets very complicated when you look at their travel schedule. Yeah, so it's not just the days they spend to the place, it's where, the where, the purport, where they perform. So yeah, it's it's a pretty tricky thing.
Yeah.
I could just imagine Damian someone saying, I can't show up for the Thursday game on Wednesday. I gotta come Thursday morning.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, I mean, you know what's also really interesting is he is deferring all this money, which means he has revenue coming in from other sources, specifically as advertisers. Right, so endorsement his endorsement. So check it out. Four of his primary corporate supporters Mitsubishi Japan Airlines, Coast Group, and Psycho Group, which is the watchmaker their shares on the Nike We're up huge after this news, which you know, and this is why I'm asking you, e Vince, I mean, how is this contract good for those companies all?
Because I think it's going to make Otani now that you've paired him with one of the I would call it three marquee brands in the sport, and I would think the Yankees, the Dodgers, and the Cubs, in no particular order. I think it elevates his profile even further if you could, if we could even believe that, because he's been emerging as the face of baseball in the US. But I think this takes it on a much bigger, even bigger level, and I think that is going to be nothing but a win for anybody who's affiliated with him. And the word is that he's already making forty to fifty million dollars in endorsement dollars already per year, which explains a little bit why he can afford to go at two million a year for the ten years that he's playing.
Well, Vince, I think Scarlett and Stevie Cohen would take a bit of, you know, a bit of the other side of that. Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers now. But truthfully, what I what I also want to ask you is what do you think this means for forget about baseball, but professional sports and all these contracts. You know, I read a statue yesterday that this contract seven hundred million is more than the combined career earnings of Steph Curry and Klay Thompson. I mean, that is bananas bananas, So what is this like? What impact do you think this can have on NFL player contracts? I mean, you know, Patrick Mahomes was the highest paid per year player and professional sports and so all this, so you know, what does this mean?
Well, you know, it's a great question, and you have to balance it with the degree to which this uniqueness is something we've never seen before. So if Steph Curry could play, you know, be the three point shooter that he is and you know, block eight shots a game and play the post position and you know, and do it all, this guy is pitching and hitting. And even though he won't pitch this coming year because of his time and John surgery, he will he is expected to pitch beyond that and be one of the top pitchers in the game in addition to be one of the top hitters. So you know, right now, every GM and every team owner is telling their players, look, don't even think about this as a precedent of setting the because this is a unicorn. This is there's never been a more unique player and none of this applies to anybody else. So this is what the debate is going to be back and forth.
Well, Vince Our, thanks to you, Associate Dean and Clinical Associate Professor at the NYU Preston Robertish Institute, of Global Sports, Vince Gennaro, thank you so much for joining us here on the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
My pleasure, thanks for having me.
Coming off, we turn to a group of billionaires looking to dive in on the PGA Tour. That's straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio brand.
This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Scarlett Fu along with Damien Sassaur. Michael barr Is off this week. Still to come, we'll talk with Clutch Sports founder Rich Paul will get his thoughts on some of the latest big moves in sports and also pick his brain on what it's like representing some of the world's most famous athletes.
The unfortunate thing is for someone in my position and you get people that want to be like me, but they don't want to work with you because they feel like they can't beat them next to you.
That conversation on the way next, but first, plenty of drama in golf.
That's right, Scarlett, after saying he would not do it. The number three golfer in the world, Gen Ram is the latest big name to join Live Golf, and so.
Of course, the PGA Tour announced it will be suspending Rom as a result.
In an interview shared on Live Golf's YouTube channel, Rom explains why he made the leap from the PGA to Live.
I think the innovation and the vision of Live Golf is would push me over to at least give it a chance and hear the pitch out and ultimately ended up being what a I guess I wanted to hear, right. I believe on the growth of the game of golf. I've largely spoken about how Savy improved the game of golf in Spain, and I've always said how I would like to do the same thing over there, and if I can reach a bigger audience, he would be amazing, and I do believe this process will help me do that.
That's John Rahm in a video share by Livegolf on YouTube. But that's not the only headline surrounding the PGA and Live Bloomberg News is reporting that a group of billionaires is in talks to invest in the PGA Tour.
Yeah, this group of potential investors reads like a who's who of the super rich and sports. We're talking Steve Cohen, Mark Lazr, Arthur Blank and more.
Bloomberg News Senior reporter Julian Tan is here now to help us break it all down. Jillian, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Thanks for having me, so.
Jillian, talk to us here. What exactly is going on? Last we heard, you know, the Saudi's were taking over. They were taken over the PGA. They're taking over golf, and now it seems like we have some other parties involved.
Yeah. So we actually first broke news on this a couple of months ago. The whole idea of a US investor sort of coming in, maybe it makes it a little bit more palatable someone to invest alongside Saudi's sovereign Walk Fund it's known as PIFF in its combination with the PGA tour, and there were a bunch of US investors sort of angling. We reported Endeavor, you know, the Arian Annual talent agency. They confirmed they were in, then they dropped. We reported some other very very big names you mentioned billionaires. There was a Friends of Golf group that featured the KKR co founders Henry Kravitz and George Roberts, which then dropped. And then yes, Stanway Sports Group has brought together this consortium of as you say it, who's who of US investors.
Yeah, it involves Steve Cohen of course, the owner of the New York Mets, the hedge fund billionaire Mark Lazree, former co owner of the Milwaukee Bucks. You also have Marktanasio, who owns the Brewers, Arthur Blank, who owned Wick Grouseback.
We've had work on the show.
Yes with Grosseback. You also have Arthur Blank of the Atlanta Falcons. I mean, the list just goes on. What's notable here, Gillian is these guys all want to get in on the new PGA slash Live Golf entity that whose status is clearly unknown at this point.
Yeah.
So the Goal and the PGA and Live and PIFF have all said they're all trying to work towards the December thirty one deadline that's coming up pretty quickly. But what needs to happen is for these US investors to push forward. I think there actually needs to be a change in a memorandum of understanding that would allow you know, this new entity to create a US investor like loophole, because right now Saudi has total exclusivity, right, So what needs to happen, is they need to change terms, allow this US investor in and then, as you said, all these guys want in because they do believe in, you know, the stickiness of the sport, the success of the sport, and you know, Sunday afternoon, a lot of these guys are at home, you know, watching TV and they know the media rights attached to Golfer obviously valuable.
Well, Julian, you just hit the nail on the head, right. All we had up until this point was an MoU, a memorandum of understanding, right. We didn't really have any real hard facts on what you know, you know, a live PGA, you know, joint entity might even look like or do do we have any color on that at this point?
No, there was there is if people want to go and read the paperwork like that's all filed with the DOJ. But our colleagues reported, I think it was last week that you know, a refreshed mo OU will be put forward to you know, regulators at the DOJ, likely before the end of this year.
And our understanding is that j Monahan and the head of the PIF are negotiating this week as well. Do we know anything more than that. I mean, do we know how far along they are in discussions. I know this is all the speculation at this point, but everyone's starved for some kind of detail.
Yes, so, I think Jay confirmed at a recent conference he's meeting YAsO this week. And I'm not sure if you guys followed this, but John Rahm, he's the reigning Masters Championship Live Golf, you know, secured him in the Big two recently, and everyone views that as you know, Saudi adding a little bit more pressure and leverage to their side of the negotiation. There were rumors they were also going to get a US golfer called Tony Female, who this week posted on Instagram. Yeah yeah, he's a cashtag I'm not leaving or something like that, which which is interesting. But it's certainly, you know, a pretty tense time as the PGA and PIFF move forward, because you know, the PGA has much less leverage if you know, by the end of the month, which is when the deadline is. And I don't think this will happen, but if PIFF suddenly secured all top ten golfers, then you know, what does the PGA left with really have? Yeah, I mean John obviously have.
A Oh no, no, sorry to interrupt, I just I was going to say that. John Rahm also in twenty twenty two, made it really clear that he was not interested in live golf until the news broke that the PGA was in discussions with live golf, and that kind of opened the door to everything. It legitimized any conversation that a pro golfer might have live.
That's right, Scarlett. And what's interesting about the John Rahm is you know, how is the PGA supposed to act and respond to this. Well, they told you they suspended him, right, I mean, so it's kind of unbelievable, right, I mean, this is the number three player in the world. He's now suspended ahead of the season. Anyway, I mean where I sit with all this is, you know, time, the clock is ticking.
You know.
Is there any chance here that as these kind of negotiations continue with the Fenway Sports Group, Jillian, that the Saudis get cold feet and decide to back away from this. Is that something that they've indicated might well be a possibility and just say, well, you know, to hell with this, We're just going to keep live and go it alone.
No, that doesn't seem to be at all like on the table, Like I think the whole idea is that maybe they figure something out. But yeah, I mean, certainly everything is possible, and there could be a world in which Live remains a totally separate entity and these sort of two leagues compete definitely, but you know, I think the goal is to have a situation where the players can move freely between the leagues, right right.
One thing that I've noticed in our conversation and our name checking all these different sports billionaires is the names that did not come up, Josh Harris, David Blitzer, David Rubinstein, Jillian What happened? These guys aren't interested in golf?
No, Well, I think a lot of them at their hands full with you know, their investment terms. But yeah, I don't think golf is their particular sport of choice or the sports that they love. And yeah, everyone knows Josh Harris led a group that bought the Commanders for a record setting six billion, and then we reported that David Rubinstein is looking at the oriole So yeah, everyone's got their attention a little bit elsewhere. But a ball is usually, you.
Know, in play, A ball is in play all right, well said, thank you so much. Our thanks to Bloomberg News senior reporter Jillian Tan and the sports billionaires who want in on the new entity that might be formed by the Burned Repgia Tour and Live Golf. Up next, we bring in sports super agent Rich Paul.
Is not solely about the money you're making, etc.
It's about the impact you're making, and it's about the opportunity you're able to give. And so instead of me having to necessarily, you know, give somebody advice for a place of yeah, you know, I did it like this, and I did it like that, and if you go to school, you could do this and do that, I can actually hire somebody.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world. Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Scarlett Foo.
And I'm Damian Sasaur.
Michael Barr is off this week, so Bloomberg US sports business reporter Randall Williams is jumping in. Hey Randall, Hey, how are you all?
Thank you for having me.
As always Randall, Rich Paul represents some of the biggest names in the NBA and beyond, starting with none other than the King, Lebron James.
He is founder and CEO of Clutch Sports Group and also co head of Sports at United Talent Agency.
He also has a new book out called Lucky Me, a memoir of changing the odds, and he's here to talk to us about it, plus some of the latest big headlines in sports. Rich Paul, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
Thank you, thank you, thanks for having me.
I want to play off of the title of your book, Lucky Me. What has been the luckiest thing that's happened to you in your career that led you to where you are?
Oh?
You know what, I think the luckiest thing that's happened to me was created by me just having the belief of myself. And you know, when I left CAAA, that was probably the best decision I ever made in my career.
One of the things one of the main themes of the book for anybody who's read it or listened to it, is betting on yourself. And you alluded to that. What do you think your dad instilled than you that allowed you to continue to bet on yourself? Even at this age, because a lot of times there's risk with it. And I think that's one of the things that you've mastered, is risk versus reward.
Yeah, you know, I just never had a doubt. I never allowed somebody to.
Position the fact that you know, I had this job that young black men don't supposed to have because I didn't have the requirements to do so. And so my dad believing in me. My dad always been president in my life. My dad instilled in that work ethic and being a great example for me allowed me to take that step that you know, allowed me to then take many steps to the pathway that brought me to the place I sit today.
Rich.
I mean, look, one of the chapters in the book, which is by the way, amazing for our audience, you have to read it, is leave nothing to chance. And one of the quotes I remember that your dad told you is be careful. No, the robbers know, the jackers know the schemers. So how do you tell Tom Brady and Steph Curry, who basically decided to go into business with Sam Bakmon Freed and FTX, right, how can you how can these athletes know or even sort of try to determine that he was, that this was a Ponzi scheme, that he was a robber, he was a schemer, you know. I mean it was good money. I mean, thirty five million for Steph, fifty five million for Tom Brady. Did they have to give that back?
Now?
What do you think?
I don't know.
I think it's unfair to Stephan Tom. You know, like that's a blind sided thing. You can't really see that coming, and you can do all the diligence, et cetera, but that that's just a tough one.
You know, that's probably a little bit above my pay grade.
But both Steph and Tom are great dudes and so and smart guys, so I know they wouldn't purposely do something to put themselves in that position.
I want to get your thoughts on a couple of big headlines going on in the world of sports, and of course we have to start with the show. Hey Otani Monster contract signings seven hundred million dollars over ten years, but of course a big chunk of that will be deferred. Does this change a game for big contract signings? I mean, not just in the MLB, but across sports.
I don't think so, you know, I think everyone has their opinion on it. I think, you know, based upon where he lives and understanding the taxes where he in the state of California, I can understand why he's doing it. And in addition to the fact that he's made he makes probably forty five to fifty million dollars off the phil makes him able to have that cushion to do so. I mean when I did when Lebron came back from Miami and we did the one plus one and one plus one on his contract, a lot of that went into effect. You know, he made so much money off off the court that we can take that risk, right and so you know, that was one of many reasons why we did that, and so I fully understand it. I fully understand It's two different strategies, right, because you have the same state tax in Ohio as as a Tony does in California, but same principle in terms of the reason why he's able to only make two million dollars this.
Year as a player in baseball.
Allowing his team to then go out and build around him was one aspect that I imagine he's trying to save a little money on the taxis I mean I let the RS deal with that.
That's something that he would have to deal with later on down the road.
But the same thing in terms of when we came back, when we came from Miami back to Cleveland, and it was for different reasons, but strategy, you know, it is all strategy for us. It was, you know, we understood that the cat was increasing each year. We understood that Lebron was at a level in which he could take that risk because he made so much money off the court and he was just so good he would have to lose both arms and both legs not to get paid his value. And so in addition to it was on the reverse though in terms of team like and even wants his team to be able to, you know, continue to have great talent around him. The NBA restricts certain things, so you couldn't necessarily do that per se, But it was the other way around. We wanted to have flexibility in case the team decided not to continue to pay the tax every year to maintain and retain the players that were currently on the roster to help you know, play at the level.
That was needed. And so you know, again.
I understand it fully Again, you know, everyone will have their own opinion on it, but if they feel it works for them, then great.
Rich.
One of the things I wanted to ask you about is where do you think the sports industry is headed? And the reason I want to ask about it is because athletes today are able to make more money earlier than they've ever been able to make it, and then once they go professional, the rookie contracts are bigger and the max contracts are humongous. When you look at the sports agency world, where do you think it's going?
Well? I mean, look, I think I think that's a very slippery slope.
And I think most people, especially you know, the people around the athlete, I think they have to really allow themselves to be firmly planned from a place of education and experience, right, Because when you talk about athletes are able to make more money, that's just a broad statement. You can't really name one, and you can't really name one that does it with consistency.
Right.
So if you can sit here and say give me an example, we'll be sitting here.
Next to next probably right.
So, I think it's very confusing, and I think social media also confuses people because there's a lot of announcements and no follow right.
There's a lot of.
Show, there's articles, there's you know, there's all these things, but there's no follow through.
There's no real infrastructure position.
You don't see something being built where it has sustainability and what I would say a track record, right, And so I don't really get into that. I think the sports agency business, you know, is a lot like music, right. It depends on who you represent. If you're representing guys that want to not pay you, the better they become, the less they want to pay you, then you're in a bad business, you know. If you're representing guys that want to show up on time and want to be professional and want to be great partners and want to respect you for your work just as much as you respect them for their work, and they feel good about paying the people around them because they understand that's how business actually works, and they feel good about the partners, and they feel good about the fact that you advise them to do something and when they show up and it's a six hour shoot and they get it done in four, that it allows them to further position themselves with that partner versus showing up at four when they should have been there at two and they ask for eight hours, and now you can plan.
And only want to do one if you're trauma.
Yeah, no, I mean, I mean I've been around this business twenty two years.
There's nothing There's nothing I haven't seen.
And the unfortunate thing is for someone in my position, you get people that want to be like me, but they don't want to work with you because they feel like they can't beat them next to you, so they can beat them somewhere else.
You know, so rich, I have to ask you this, right, I mean, look, you are the kingmaker man. You've been dealing with Nike since the beginning of your relationship with Lebron James and through all your clients. I'm sure. I mean you've even I've been dealing with Nike much adopt right, I mean you went off I mean three former Nike executives. You have a wellness of brand with them, a super products band with them. So here's my question. Well, yeah, Clutch Athletics, your own brand with New Balance. I mean, what does Nike think of that?
I think I think Nike respected, you know, I think at the end of the day, I'm an entrepreneur. Yeah, you know, I can walk into bubble Gum at the same time, you know, for the for those that I represent UH at a level in which any brand wants to align themselves with them, I'm gonna do the best job for the client. You know, there's some clients that just you know, just we just can't pay. I mean, look, I could have signed darreon Fox. He signed to the Curry brand. Great, no problem, right. I have clients at Nike, and I have a few clients at New Balance. Our focus at Clutch from the from the brand side has been more on N I L.
I have signed some football players and we'll continue to be active in that space.
But it's a little bit different, you know, right, and it's very selective, it's very strategic with our approach. We just signed a young lady by the name of Elia Crump out of Minnesota, who is we're really excited about and will continue to invest in the in the in the girls game as well as the N I L space.
But you know, at the end of the day, I just saw.
An opportunity, you know, I felt like, you know, I didn't name the company Rich Paul's for a reason, right, Rich Paul Sports or anything like that. I wanted to to name the companies something that could grow legs, and in this case, Clutch Brand and Clutch Sports Group are two totally separate companies, you know, just they just able to share the same name because they were created by the same person. But in addition to that, you know, I'm forever evolving. I don't feel like I should be limited. I don't feel like I should be content or can place in any matter, or satisfied for that matter.
I mean, look, we've been extremely successful despite.
You know, I had to build a company with one arm behind my back for a lot of different reasons, and I appreciate that because it just makes you stronger. But I'm not stopping there. I'm not going to be discouraged by it, because at the end of the day, no one puts a limit on Bezos, no one puts a limit on Zuckerberg, no one puts the limit on you know a lot of guys who continue to roll up these companies into a company that they've been able to build.
And so I want to be the same way.
I want to be able to sit in rooms with those guys as you know.
Respect the peers.
Maybe not from a bank account, perspective, that's difficult to do. But from a perspective, yeah, definitely, from a perspective of you know, you just you just work hard. And the thing for me is what I one thing I love about it most and the biggest joy I get out of it is as you create these companies, it's not about the money. It's not solely about the money you're making, et cetera. It's about the impact you're making, and it's about the opportunity you're able to give. And so instead of me having to necessarily, you know, give somebody advice from a place of yeah, you know, I did it like this, and I did it like that, and if you go to school, you can do this and do that.
I can actually hire somebody, And I.
Think that is extremely That's much more important than any magazine cover I can be on or any praise I can get. Giving someone an opportunity that can change their life, that can change the trajectory of their children's live, that can give them a different experience to better understand how life.
Is supposed to be lived. That's a different place than.
Where I come from.
Because where I come from and you read the book, When you read that book, it is a different dynamic. I have France that's never been downtown, that don't even make sense, you know, And so that's what pushes me every day. And that's why, you know, despite anything, you know, look, God has blessed me and my family and allowed me to be extremely successful despite all the challenges. But at the same time, you know, I don't look at it as a negative. If there's anything negative or any type, I'm vegan too, anything beef negative, I'm vegan as a particular.
So Rich, Rich when you when you when you left, he said, leaving c AA was you know, one of the best movies, the best movie you ever made. I know you don't miss Veno, but do you miss Lloyd for sure? No, I'm just kidding. I'm not going to ask you about Lloyd, but listen, I need to ask you.
Good guys over there, I just you know, I just had to do his own things.
It's the opportunity. And again, you know, I think no one expected me to be in the position I am today. And what I see guys there, you know, they're respectful. They may not like it. I'm sure there's conversations. I know for a fact, there's conversations behind closed doors.
But everyone has to respect it.
And you know, I gotta talk from a place of truth, you know, And so I know most people are afraid to do that in my position, but that's just the way it has to be.
That's how I was raised.
Rich. One of the things that I've heard you say, I think it was on first take, is that when you were starting, you didn't have agents who looked like you opened the door for you And you mentioned a little I think it was the question before about how you are opening doors for the people who are coming behind you? Yeah, what ways are you? How are you opening those doors for people to excel?
Yeah?
Well, I think just to clarify, you know, because when I was on first take, you know, I think people made about black agents. Let me clarify. There was no agents. There wasn't an agent I was working with. It wasn't no plan, there was no strategy. It was just hey, you somebody friend, let's try to keep in positions, just home.
And yeah, and but but it was a little bit more love.
Than that, but it was just no plan. I can't see. It was a little bit more love than that, but it was just no plan. But it was no whether you were black or white agents. When I came into business, they were doing everything they can to, you know, to assassinate my character, to discourage families. You know, there was I mean, this is all public. There was an article written October tenth. I remember, you know, two thousand there was an article written October tenth, two thousand and twelve that basically assassinated my character and tried to get me investigated and all these things that was planned by my previous That was planet that was a strategic thing that didn't work.
But I had to do an investigation n Cuba and everything.
And you know, I understood the war within the game because I came from that.
So I was basically like, okay, bring it on.
But every day I lived my life that way, understanding that I was at war.
So it was a different dynamic for me.
But but getting back to your question, Yeah, today, what I'm doing is I leave the door open.
I really do.
And my door's always open in my office. My door's always open.
Anyone who works with me, I like to say, work with me, not for me. Anyone who works with me.
You think you think leon door is open? Is lack? Vin is zach levin coming to the next I mean, no, no, that's not gonna happen.
Your answer, thanks, it's blatantly honest.
The rich.
Yeah, I think, I think I leave the door open, and I think, and it's not just for people that work with me, you know, even the so called rival companies. Whatever I talk, I see young people, and I talk to them as well, you know, as much as I would someone who works at my company, because it's not really a competition.
I think that's a fictitious thing. It's not really a competition.
I don't see anybody, whether they were here twenty years before me or hopefully someone who comes after me, based upon the trail that I'm that I'm continuing to blaze, have it better that I had it right, It's able to be positioned better, proceeding better, and things of that nature. But yeah, no, I mean, look, I had there was black agentes selling parents, and you know, still to this there's something that happens still to this day.
You wouldn't believe it.
There still hasn't been a conversation at the high level. People still don't want to work alongside you. People still don't want to, you know, allow you to buy their businesses.
Yeah, I mean, look, I mean I was just thinking about it when I was just getting ready for this.
I'm like that, It's crazy that people that you would talk to all the time would rather see and help someone else and help you. This is what I deal with every day. I've had NBA players call families and say, don't go with this person, like you should go with And they don't have nothing to do with anything, right, and they know me, by the way, they really should be like, you know what, if it's rich, that's off limits, right, if it's company to company, then of course I'm a group for you.
You know, this is where I made well I have.
But if you know me, you've been in my house, you've been around my here, then I'm not asking you to say go to Rich, Paul or anything. I'm just asking you to be like, you know what, Hey, that's that's family there. You've made the best man win because that's how I am. I don't negatively few. I don't care to do that, don't need to do that. Who's going to be for you is going to be for you. I've always lived my life like that.
So rich good there.
From the our conversation, that there's very little that surprises you. And in fact, you said, in all your years of doing this, not much catches you by surprise, so very quickly. Here when was the last time you were surprised by some kind of sports deal, some sports headline? What surprise you last?
Oh man? What surprised me? That's a tough one, man, you know. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what excited me more than anything. I don't know what. I don't know what surprised me? What excited me?
And that kid continue to talk about this is the deal that we were able to do for Chris Livingston this year. You know, Chris Livingston was a kid who came out highly talented, probably went to the wrong school, you know, And that happens to a lot of young men. And here's here's the thing we don't see, and I might do something on this. We don't see the kids that came out highly talented, sat in the living room and was told something by coaching staff, and they got to campus and the total opposite thing happened and they go from being a draft a draft prospect to never heard from again. And people don't understand how important and how devastating that is to someone's life, their families, because everyone's thinking, hey, it's gonna be a red carpet rolled out as long as the Golden gate Bridge, and we're gonna make it, and the family's gonna be straight everything. And so I continue to go back to that because here's a kid that probably should have been a first round pick, but because he got off to such a weird start due to a number of things, and you know, wasn't playing and wasn't starting and this and that, and you know it wasn't being put in position to be.
Successful, and you know, and here it is.
He was the last pick in the draft, but he got a first round structure and guaranteed money and all you can and I sell all my guys. All you can ask for in life is direction, and you have to make your way from there, right. And so I'm extremely thankful for the opportunity that Lebron had allowed me to have by by representing him. It took me nine years to do so on paper as a friend, I'm extremely thankful about the experience I was able to have and the rooms I was able to be in. And I'm also thankful for my parents who allowed me to be a person to understand when you're in the room, to shut up and to pay attention and to respect people and to listen more than you talk, which allowed me to then reposition myself and transition and have some type of direction.
But it was up to me to.
Have the yards after the catch the brons through a screen pass. Yes you did, but I had to run the rest of the way to score a touchdown.
Yeah.
And so I think the ignorance on social media at its abundance doesn't necessarily realize that. And I see more people talking, and it just reminds me of how I grew up. How I grew up. No matter what you did, somebody had something negative to say, and to me, it was just because of the trauma that.
They're going through every day. So it didn't matter what happened.
And so you continue to play this game amongst each other, and then it starts. It starts out with two people, then go to six, and you go to ten and go to twenty, and before you know it, it becomes a massive thing. This is psychology and mentality that we deal with in every day. It's one thing to have a debate that's in all sports, and I think it's necessary amongst fans. It's another thing to want to see somebody not do well. And it's disguised as debate, but what it really is, it's internal hatred of your positioning for thyself that you have to look in the mirror every day and deal with. And so I'm extremely happy about what we were able to do with Christippins. It has never been done before. And all I wanted to do is make sure I know our heart that young man worked as well as everyone that we had act clans last year.
But he got a raw deal. Man, he got a raw deal.
And I was and I was determined. I was determined to at least get him to a place to where, Yeah, if you can, if you're nineteen years old, you can start with a couple of million dollars in your bank account. Hey, you can make it from there. Hopefully you can make it from there.
And maybe one day a lot of us didn't.
Yeah, maybe one day he'll be writing a memoir as well. Rich really really appreciate your time and sharing all these stories with us. Rich Paul, of course, is founder and CEO of Clutch Sports Group and co head of Sports at United Talent Agency. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. We're here each and every week at the same time. I'm Scarlet Foo and I'm Damian sat All. Tune in again next week for the latest on the stories moving big money in the world of sports. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.