Why are we so fascinated by the people on the absolute fringes of society?


When someone adopts a worldview that seems completely detached from consensus reality, what is the sequence of thoughts and experiences that led them there?

In this episode, I’m joined by the legendary journalist, author, and documentary maker Jon Ronson. For twenty-five years, Jon has been doing the hard work of looking directly at human behaviour that most of us would prefer to avoid.  Jon’s career has been defined by his ability to humanise the people we’ve been taught to fear or dismiss.

Taken from the full-length episode, here’s a few tasty morsels to chew on today including: 
Why we often reward psychopathic traits by making those people our CEOs and political leaders.
What happens when extreme personalities feed off each other, and how do they pull us into their orbit.
How ordinary people drift into ideological bubbles, and what it takes to understand the urge to belong to a tribe.

This is a fascinating, thoughtful, and very funny chat with one of the greats.

LINKS 
Harrison's book 'Transform Your Pain into Purpose' is out now
Follow Harrison on Instagram
Sign up to the Better Than Yesterday newsletter
Watch episodes of Better Than Yesterday on YouTube
Watch full stories recorded live at  Story Club on YouTube
Get tickets for our next Story Club show
Get Osher's latest books  here
Send a pic of what you're looking at to sendosheremail@gmail.com 

LIKE THIS EPISODE? CHECK THESE OUT...
'Comfort Is Holding You Back': Secrets to Growth and Confidence with Ant Williams
How to Communicate Better in Every Conversation with Jefferson Fisher
The Reality of Living In The Outback: Brendan Cullen's Journey from Pain to Purpose

Why are we so fascinated by the people on the absolute fringes of society?
 When someone adopts a worldview that seems completely detached from consensus reality, what is the sequence of thoughts and experiences that led them there?
In this episode, I&rsquo;m joined by the legendary journalist, author, and documentary maker Jon Ronson. For twenty-five years, Jon has been doing the hard work of looking directly at human behaviour that most of us would prefer to avoid.&nbsp; Jon&rsquo;s career has been defined by his ability to humanise the people we&rsquo;ve been taught to fear or dismiss.
Taken from the full-length episode, here&rsquo;s a few tasty morsels to chew on today including:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li>Why we often reward psychopathic traits by making those people our CEOs and political leaders.</li>
<li>What happens when extreme personalities feed off each other, and how do they pull us into their orbit.</li>
<li>How ordinary people drift into ideological bubbles, and what it takes to understand the urge to belong to a tribe.</li>
</ul>
This is a fascinating, thoughtful, and very funny chat with one of the greats.
<ul></ul>
LINKS&nbsp;
<ul>
<li>Harrison's book '<a href="https://www.simonandschuster.com.au/books/Transform-Your-Pain-into-Purpose/Harrison-James/9781923293892">Transform Your Pain into Purpose</a>' is out now</li>
<li>Follow Harrison on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/itsharrijames">Instagram</a></li>
<li>Sign up to the Better Than Yesterday <a href="https://makeitbetterthanyesterday.kit.com/7d9d18dcee">newsletter</a></li>
<li>Watch episodes of&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa-1kXDagJXvgJa9MNymv4jnKkfdtCqBd">Better Than Yesterday on YouTube</a></li>
<li>Watch full stories recorded live at &nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@storyclublive">Story Club</a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/@storyclublive"> on YouTube</a></li>
<li><a href="https://linktr.ee/osher_gunsberg">Get tickets </a>for our next Story Club show</li>
<li>Get Osher's latest books  <a href="https://linktr.ee/osher_gunsberg">here</a></li>
<li>Send a pic of what you're looking at to <a href="mailto:sendosheremail@gmail.com">sendosheremail@gmail.com</a>&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
LIKE THIS EPISODE? CHECK THESE OUT...
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/comfort-is-holding-you-back-secrets-to-growth-and-confidence-with-ant-williams">'Comfort Is Holding You Back': Secrets to Growth and Confidence with Ant Williams</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/how-to-communicate-better-in-every-conversation-with-jefferson-fisher">How to Communicate Better in Every Conversation with Jefferson Fisher</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/the-reality-of-living-in-the-outback-brendan-cullens-journey-from-pain-to-purpose">The Reality of Living In The Outback: Brendan Cullen's Journey from Pain to Purpose</a></li>
</ul>

With every new day comes the opportunity to grow. Hosted by Osher Günsberg - a best-selling author, podcaster, TV host, husband, dad, stepdad, electric mobility enthusiast and part-time climate worrier. This podcast is here to help make today better than yesterday. Since 2013, the show has set out to improve life for you and the people you love. Sometimes it’s authentic conversations. Sometimes we’ll unpack the news or hear how Osher deals with life as a sober person with a different brain. But you’ll always hear something you need to hear (and laugh while you do). Listen to feel less alone, build better habits and discover some solution-based approaches for when life gets tricky.

With every new day comes the opportunity to grow. Hosted by Osher G&uuml;nsberg - a best-selling author, podcaster, TV host, husband, dad, stepdad, electric mobility enthusiast and part-time climate worrier. This podcast is here to help make today better than yesterday. Since 2013, the show has set out to improve life for you and the people you love. Sometimes it&rsquo;s authentic conversations. Sometimes we&rsquo;ll unpack the news or hear how Osher deals with life as a sober person with a different brain. But you&rsquo;ll always hear something you need to hear (and laugh while you do). Listen to feel less alone, build better habits and discover some solution-based approaches for when life gets tricky.

Helping you make today better than yesterday since 2013.

Better Than Yesterday with Osher Günsberg

Better Than Yesterday with Osher Gunsberg

What we get  wrong about conspiracy theorists and narcissists (with Jon Ronson)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/clips/cd938a88-6e14-4247-9188-b49300b4cea7/transcript

What does it really mean to lead with strength?

For decades, we've been taught that great leadership is about being loud, decisive and commanding. But what if the most effective leaders are the ones who listen first, lead with empathy and have the courage to challenge the status quo?

In this episode, Osher Günsberg sits down with former Deputy Commander of the Royal Netherlands Air Force (and first female to be promoted to rank of lieutenant general) Elanor Boekholt-O'Sullivan, whose remarkable career has redefined what leadership can look like. Rising through one of the world's most traditional institutions, Elanor transformed military culture by proving that sensitivity, curiosity and authenticity aren't weaknesses, but powerful competitive advantages.

Drawing on more than 30 years of military service, Elanor shares how she overcame resistance, challenged outdated systems, and created lasting change by helping people rethink why they do what they do. From being the only woman aboard a warship with no accommodation for women, to inspiring a new generation of leaders to embrace vulnerability, her experiences offer lessons that apply far beyond the military.

This conversation also explores her extraordinary decision to leave the military after 32 years to take on one of the Netherlands' biggest challenges: helping solve the country's housing crisis as newly appointed Minister of Housing and Spatial Planning. Her deeply human perspective on the importance of creating not just houses, but homes, reveals why purpose should always be at the heart of leadership.

Whether you're leading a business, managing a team, raising a family or navigating your own career, this episode is packed with practical insights on resilience, change, emotional intelligence and leading with courage.

LINKS 
Elanor's book 'Armed With Sensitivity: A General's Perspective On Leadership' is out now
Sign up to the Better Than Yesterday newsletter
Watch episodes of Better Than Yesterday on YouTube
Watch full stories recorded live at  Story Club on YouTube
Get tickets for our next Story Club show
Get Osher's latest books  here
Send a pic of what you're looking at to sendosheremail@gmail.com 

LIKE THIS EPISODE? CHECK THESE OUT...
Kids Don’t Need Perfect Parents, Just Present Ones with Lisa Taylor
How The Netherlands Turned an Oil Crisis Into a National Opportunity
The New Leadership Playbook: Why Caring Workplaces Win with Graeme Cowan

What does it really mean to lead with strength?
For decades, we've been taught that great leadership is about being loud, decisive and commanding. But what if the most effective leaders are the ones who listen first, lead with empathy and have the courage to challenge the status quo?
In this episode, Osher G&uuml;nsberg sits down with former Deputy Commander of the Royal Netherlands Air Force (and first female to be promoted to rank of lieutenant general) Elanor Boekholt-O'Sullivan, whose remarkable career has redefined what leadership can look like. Rising through one of the world's most traditional institutions, Elanor transformed military culture by proving that sensitivity, curiosity and authenticity aren't weaknesses, but powerful competitive advantages.
Drawing on more than 30 years of military service, Elanor shares how she overcame resistance, challenged outdated systems, and created lasting change by helping people rethink why they do what they do. From being the only woman aboard a warship with no accommodation for women, to inspiring a new generation of leaders to embrace vulnerability, her experiences offer lessons that apply far beyond the military.
This conversation also explores her extraordinary decision to leave the military after 32 years to take on one of the Netherlands' biggest challenges: helping solve the country's housing crisis as newly appointed Minister of Housing and Spatial Planning. Her deeply human perspective on the importance of creating not just houses, but homes, reveals why purpose should always be at the heart of leadership.
Whether you're leading a business, managing a team, raising a family or navigating your own career, this episode is packed with practical insights on resilience, change, emotional intelligence and leading with courage.
LINKS&nbsp;
<ul>
<li>Elanor's book '<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/Armed-sensitivity-generals-perspective-leadership-ebook/dp/B0G1Z91271">Armed With Sensitivity: A General's Perspective On Leadership'</a> is out now</li>
<li>Sign up to the Better Than Yesterday <a href="https://makeitbetterthanyesterday.kit.com/7d9d18dcee">newsletter</a></li>
<li>Watch episodes of&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa-1kXDagJXvgJa9MNymv4jnKkfdtCqBd">Better Than Yesterday on YouTube</a></li>
<li>Watch full stories recorded live at &nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@storyclublive">Story Club</a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/@storyclublive"> on YouTube</a></li>
<li><a href="https://linktr.ee/osher_gunsberg">Get tickets </a>for our next Story Club show</li>
<li>Get Osher's latest books  <a href="https://linktr.ee/osher_gunsberg">here</a></li>
<li>Send a pic of what you're looking at to <a href="mailto:sendosheremail@gmail.com">sendosheremail@gmail.com</a>&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
LIKE THIS EPISODE? CHECK THESE OUT...
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/kids-don-t-need-perfect-parents-just-present-ones-with-lisa-taylor">Kids Don&rsquo;t Need Perfect Parents, Just Present Ones with Lisa Taylor</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/how-the-netherlands-turned-an-oil-crisis-into-a-national-opportunity">How The Netherlands Turned an Oil Crisis Into a National Opportunity</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/the-new-leadership-playbook-why-caring-workplaces-win-with-graeme-cowan">The New Leadership Playbook: Why Caring Workplaces Win with Graeme Cowan</a></li>
</ul>

Leading with Sensitivity: How Elanor Boekholt-O'Sullivan Challenged 100 Years of Military Thinking

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/clips/c3a9ac21-db62-4d2d-95de-b496007bf14a/transcript

Two-time world surfing champion Tom Carroll scored back-to-back perfect 10s at Pipeline, one of the deadliest waves on the planet. But behind the world titles and global fame, Tom was fighting a quiet, destructive battle with methamphetamine addiction while raising three daughters.

In this conversation, Tom opens up about the trauma of losing his mother as a child, what actually happens when you stop running from emotional pain, and the split-second decision at a roundabout six months into recovery that saved his life.

Whether you’re in recovery, supporting someone who is, or trying to break free from your own unhealthy cycles, Tom’s insights offer a practical map out of isolation and into a life beyond what you thought was possible.

LINKS 
Listen to the full conversation with Tom here
More on Tom's meditation workshop
Tom's breathwork workshop
Sign up to the Better Than Yesterday newsletter
Watch episodes of Better Than Yesterday on YouTube
Watch full stories recorded live at  Story Club on YouTube
Get tickets for our next Story Club show
Get Osher's latest books  here
Send a pic of what you're looking at to sendosheremail@gmail.com 

LIKE THIS EPISODE? CHECK THESE OUT...
AFL Coach Michelle Cowan on How to Stay Confident When People Doubt You
Enjoyment Is Efficiency: The Productivity Shift That Changes Everything
The Iconic founder Adam Jacobs' reveals his top 3 ideas for success

Two-time world surfing champion Tom Carroll scored back-to-back perfect 10s at Pipeline, one of the deadliest waves on the planet. But behind the world titles and global fame, Tom was fighting a quiet, destructive battle with methamphetamine addiction while raising three daughters.
In this conversation, Tom opens up about the trauma of losing his mother as a child, what actually happens when you stop running from emotional pain, and the split-second decision at a roundabout six months into recovery that saved his life.
Whether you&rsquo;re in recovery, supporting someone who is, or trying to break free from your own unhealthy cycles, Tom&rsquo;s insights offer a practical map out of isolation and into a life beyond what you thought was possible.
LINKS&nbsp;
<ul>
<li>Listen to the full conversation with Tom <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/506-caught-between-insanity-and-death-surfing-icon-tom-carroll-s-greatest-triumph-happened-well-away-from-the-ocean">here</a></li>
<li>More on Tom's&nbsp;<a href="https://www.tomcarrollmeditation.com/">meditation workshop</a></li>
<li>Tom's breathwork <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/DbSlfenh5nk/">workshop</a></li>
<li>Sign up to the Better Than Yesterday <a href="https://makeitbetterthanyesterday.kit.com/7d9d18dcee">newsletter</a></li>
<li>Watch episodes of&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa-1kXDagJXvgJa9MNymv4jnKkfdtCqBd">Better Than Yesterday on YouTube</a></li>
<li>Watch full stories recorded live at &nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@storyclublive">Story Club</a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/@storyclublive"> on YouTube</a></li>
<li><a href="https://linktr.ee/osher_gunsberg">Get tickets </a>for our next Story Club show</li>
<li>Get Osher's latest books  <a href="https://linktr.ee/osher_gunsberg">here</a></li>
<li>Send a pic of what you're looking at to <a href="mailto:sendosheremail@gmail.com">sendosheremail@gmail.com</a>&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
LIKE THIS EPISODE? CHECK THESE OUT...
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/afl-coach-michelle-cowan-on-how-to-stay-confident-when-people-doubt-you">AFL Coach Michelle Cowan on How to Stay Confident When People Doubt You</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/enjoyment-is-efficiency-the-productivity-shift-that-changes-everything">Enjoyment Is Efficiency: The Productivity Shift That Changes Everything</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/the-iconic-founder-adam-jacobs-reveals-his-top-3-ideas-for-success">The Iconic founder Adam Jacobs' reveals his top 3 ideas for success</a></li>
</ul>

Why Willpower Won’t Fix Addiction (And What Actually Does) with Tom Carroll

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/clips/52339d14-77ed-41f1-936e-b4970015a2c5/transcript

Content warning: This episode contains discussions of child sexual abuse, domestic violence, mental health and suicide which some listeners may find distressing. Resources can be found below.

In this raw and real conversation, Harrison James joins Osher Gunsberg to tell his remarkable story of surviving years of child sexual abuse at the hands of his stepmother, overcoming unimaginable trauma, and transforming that pain into a mission that's creating lasting change within the justice system.

Harrison speaks candidly about the grooming and abuse he endured as a teenager, including fathering a child at just 15, only to have that same child ripped from his life, the devastating impact it had on his mental health, and the long road to healing. Together, they explore the many myths surrounding child sexual abuse continue that persist, particularly for male survivors, and why these conversations are essential if we are to better protect children and support victim survivors.

The discussion also shines a light on hope as Harrison shares how therapy, community, and practical tools such as writing unsent letters helped him reclaim his life. His advocacy has led to legislative reform across Australia, abolishing the use of good character references during sentencing for convicted offenders in multiple jurisdictions. It's an honest, confronting and deeply moving episode about resilience, recovery and purpose. 

SUPPORT:
If this episode raises concerns for yourself or a loved one, help is available:
1800 RESPECT - 1800 737 732 or https://1800respect.org.au
Lifeline - 13 11 14 or https://www.lifeline.org.au
Beyond Blue - https://www.beyondblue.org.au 

LINKS 
Find out more about Jon here
Sign up to the Better Than Yesterday newsletter
Watch episodes of Better Than Yesterday on YouTube
Watch full stories recorded live at Story Club on YouTube
Get tickets for our next Story Club show
Get Osher's latest books here
Send a pic of what you're looking at to sendosheremail@gmail.com 

LIKE THIS EPISODE? CHECK THESE OUT...
'Comfort Is Holding You Back': Secrets to Growth and Confidence with Ant Williams
How to Communicate Better in Every Conversation with Jefferson Fisher
The Reality of Living In The Outback: Brendan Cullen's Journey from Pain to Purpose

 

Content warning: This episode contains discussions of child sexual abuse, domestic violence, mental health and suicide which some listeners may find distressing. Resources can be found below.
In this raw and real conversation, Harrison James joins Osher Gunsberg to tell his remarkable story of surviving years of child sexual abuse at the hands of his stepmother, overcoming unimaginable trauma, and transforming that pain into a mission that's creating lasting change within the justice system.
Harrison speaks candidly about the grooming and abuse he endured as a teenager, including fathering a child at just 15, only to have that same child ripped from his life, the devastating impact it had on his mental health, and the long road to healing. Together, they explore the many myths surrounding child sexual abuse continue that persist, particularly for male survivors, and why these conversations are essential if we are to better protect children and support victim survivors.
The discussion also shines a light on hope as Harrison shares how therapy, community, and practical tools such as writing unsent letters helped him reclaim his life. His advocacy has led to legislative reform across Australia, abolishing the use of good character references during sentencing for convicted offenders in multiple jurisdictions. It's an honest, confronting and deeply moving episode about resilience, recovery and purpose.&nbsp;
SUPPORT: If this episode raises concerns for yourself or a loved one, help is available:
<ul>
<li>1800 RESPECT - 1800 737 732 or <a href="https://1800respect.org.au">https://1800respect.org.au</a></li>
<li>Lifeline - 13 11 14 or <a href="https://www.lifeline.org.au">https://www.lifeline.org.au</a></li>
<li>Beyond Blue - <a href="https://www.beyondblue.org.au">https://www.beyondblue.org.au</a>&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
LINKS&nbsp;
<ul>
<li>Find out more about Jon <a href="https://jonronson.com/">here</a></li>
<li>Sign up to the Better Than Yesterday <a href="https://makeitbetterthanyesterday.kit.com/7d9d18dcee">newsletter</a></li>
<li>Watch episodes of&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa-1kXDagJXvgJa9MNymv4jnKkfdtCqBd">Better Than Yesterday on YouTube</a></li>
<li>Watch full stories recorded live at <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@storyclublive">Story Club</a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/@storyclublive"> on YouTube</a></li>
<li><a href="https://linktr.ee/osher_gunsberg">Get tickets </a>for our next Story Club show</li>
<li>Get Osher's latest books <a href="https://linktr.ee/osher_gunsberg">here</a></li>
<li>Send a pic of what you're looking at to <a href="mailto:sendosheremail@gmail.com">sendosheremail@gmail.com</a>&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
LIKE THIS EPISODE? CHECK THESE OUT...
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/comfort-is-holding-you-back-secrets-to-growth-and-confidence-with-ant-williams">'Comfort Is Holding You Back': Secrets to Growth and Confidence with Ant Williams</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/how-to-communicate-better-in-every-conversation-with-jefferson-fisher">How to Communicate Better in Every Conversation with Jefferson Fisher</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omny.fm/shows/better-than-yesterday-with-osher-g-nsberg1/the-reality-of-living-in-the-outback-brendan-cullens-journey-from-pain-to-purpose">The Reality of Living In The Outback: Brendan Cullen's Journey from Pain to Purpose</a></li>
</ul>
&nbsp;

Turning Pain Into Purpose: Harrison James on Surviving Child Sexual Abuse and Making A Difference

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/clips/1a72b885-b9dc-452f-889f-b4950016241a/transcript

What we get wrong about conspiracy theorists and narcissists (with Jon Ronson)

Better Than Yesterday with Osher Günsberg

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