Hey everyone, Before we get to our very special episode with Chris cole for we have an exciting announcement. Snakes Miss is back, so please join us for a live taping of and That's What You Really Missed live from the I Heart Radio Theater in Los Angeles. We are raising funds and awareness in loving memory of our friend Naya Rivera to benefit Alexandria House. Celebrate the holidays with us and keep the snakes Miss spirit alive. Join us in person at the I Heart Radio Theater or watch the live stream. Special guests, performances, unbelievable gleeful auction items, and a live podcast. Here are the details. In person event December six at seven pm from the I Heart Radio Theater in Los Angeles. And for those of you that can't join us in person, we are streaming the event on December eight at five pm Pacific time, and don't worry, we'll be watching right along with you and chatting with you live. We will even have a virtual meet and greet option. Tickets are available on box office dot Mandolin dot com. We're placing the direct link to the tickets on our Instagram bio and the notes of this podcast episode. So go check it out and we'll see you there. Mary Snicks miss and That's what you Really missed with Jenna and Kevin and I Heart Radio podcast. Welcome to and That's what You Really missed podcasts. I am Jenna Schwitz, I'm Kevin McHale and today's a great day. Today is a great day, Kevin, it is. We had a really good conversation with one of our besties, Chris call for Um. We talked about the beginnings of Glee where we all were as children, and literally he was a child eighteen years old. He was actually a hyeah. Um no, it's a really he's just again like we're going with the theme of like open and honest, and I think people really appreciate hearing from him this way. And um, you know, he's he's He's Chris. He'll always be a little Chris to me, but he's all grown up now and has nineteen running an empire. Yeah, okay, anyway, let's get to it. Enjoy a conversation with Chris Colfort. Hi, Chris, thank you for coming on here to talk to us. Yeah, of course, love love love talking to you, guys. We are we're grateful to have you here. Chris Coleford for everybody listening. Um, and I'm excited to talk to you today about ship we didn't we don't talk about normally, like we know your audition, we know we know about like how you got on the show. Like I want to like dive deeper into like your experience, um, as much as you're willing to share, um, because it was so um unique and jarring in some ways, I'm sure um and from the outside, you know, looking in and being like a just kind of close to you, but like I just can't imagine after all this time and space away from the show, like you being able to think about things and process them differently and like where you're at and all those great things. So um, thanks for coming on. Yeah, no, thanks for having me. Who do I who do I send the bill to? Oh? I mean wrong joke. I mean I meant like, this is therapy and you can billing me any girls are sent to Ryan Riffy Productions. Very good, Kevin, he seems to be open to it. So um, well all right, let's just jump in. Don't you think Jen and I were talking about this. I think when you're young, you just sort of like we all accepted, like we're all here, we got hired and we're doing this thing. But as now a grown ass man, I was thinking about because you were the first person I met on the show, because we auditioned together. But like you, we all had some sort of like foot in the entertainment business prior to this in some way, I mean varying degrees of success, mostly not success. But you, like we lived in l A or New York and you were driving down from Clovis like you were very much you're auditioning for things right, Like you did have an agent, Like how did how did that happen? Like how did you get an agent in l A and start like auditioning for things that eventually led to Glee. Well, I grew up doing UM Community Theater in Fresno slash Clovis, California. I was the little boy in every show known to man UM and a family friend saw one of the shows that I was in, and UM happened to have another friend who was an agent down here, and so he put us in UH in touch uh and UM. So I started auditioning for things when I was a freshman in high school. I remember my first audition was for that so raven um did not get it. Still still better, but so I I auditioned for for four years, um and never got anything. I got one call back prior to Glee. Glee was was the first thing I booked, and I booked it shortly after I graduated high school. Um. So God blessed my parents for driving me back and forth once a month. Yeah it was a big trip. It's like a three and a half hour drive. Um. But they just they were very supportive of me, and they knew that there was nothing else I wanted to do. Um and um, I didn't really have like a you know, a raging social life, so they were probably glad I was getting out of the house in some form. Um. But yeah, so yeah, so Glee was the first thing I ever got, so um yeah it was. It was crazy because um, being so young and having no professional experience whatsoever. Was it was. It was crazy to be thrown into that that uh situation with all of you guys who who you know you you know, you guys were stars to me. I mean I mean we were. And it was a spring awakening, like, oh my god, I was. I was. I was fan girling constantly. Um. But it was. Yeah. And then also just like moving from clubs to l a so young, um by myself because I was not going to let my parents move move with me. That did you guys talk about them moving with you? We talked about it. You told them. I told them, this is not happening. Because I also didn't want people to think that I had stage parents. Um. And I also, you know, I was eighteen. I was like, I want to be with my friends, and I had all that that teenagings just so young though, But like we spent every day together probably that whole pilot because we were the ones that came from out of town. Yeah, you're staying at the Plazza and we basically lived at the Grove. Yeah. Yeah. I went to movies like every night, and literally we went to Disneyland with Lily at one time. That was fun, right, we did. We spent a lot of time with the cheesecake factory. Oh my god, it's a factory, to be fair. But Chris, did you always want to be just an actor or like was like the writing and all of this other amazing things that you've done, like kind of in in the um in the ether for you as well, or did that come later. It all hit me at the same time when I was a kid, because writing and acting were the same thing to me, because there are just two different forms of playing pretend essentially. Um. It was until I got until later, when I was like, I want to say, seven or eight, that I started realizing, Oh, like, these are two very different things, Like you know there's something, Oh, there's something called a script, Like the actors aren't just making things up in there, you know, on camera on stage. Um, but yeah, I know, so I've I've always wanted to do both. Wow. I love that you had that realization at seven or eight and cut to me at like fifteen, realizing like, oh, that's a job people do, Like, oh maybe I should try that. Yeah, You've always have been more advanced than me. Chris wrote a pilot for Kurt. He wrote his own spin off, and the four of us would take like Me, Amber, Kevin, and Chris would hang out and Chris send it I think to it to us, and you know, just it was I was like, oh, wow, like he's he's multi talented. Kids got it all. I don't know if I was pretty that script, I don't know. I think I think we read it in your apartment. UM, oh my god, hopefully were there. Well, usually when we were doing that, like we um were a little under the influence of partying. Remember we called him Jack Knights because Jenna Amber Chris Kevin, Oh my god, night little did Chris no coming up that elevator at Fox that he would be stuck with me for forever? I know? Did you both audition for Reggie? We had the same side. So the thing is we came up. I had made a like an effort prely auditioning too. I had to talk with myself like let me be just nice to everyone. And I feel like this is a competition, like even for the same role, Like everyone just trying to get a job. It's hard. And this was the first audition after my trying to exercise that nice auditioning thing. And we get up in the elevator. It's Chris and I and we check in and I helped Chris, not that you need to help checking in, but like it's like, oh, he's here too for the same thing. And so then we go up another elevator together and like we're talking, we're nervous, we're nice to each other. And then I looked down at his sides and I see the exact same we had already in regis sides to form like one audition, and I was like, You've got to be kidding me. I'm like, I've just been nice to this kid for a kid I'm like a year and a half older than him, and and I'm like yeah, I was like can you And We're sitting there, like outside the audition room, and I'm just like, keep it together, be nice to him. He's very nice, like there's no reason to not. And then you like, um, Robert or the casting director comes up and starts talking to you about some person named Kurt, and I'm just like a care and I'm like what is happening? And I was like trying to put together these pieces and I didn't want to be overly nosi, so I wasn't trying to ask Chris to any director. I mean real, You're like, what's happening back there? Well? Yeah, I was like what's going on? But I was like, in one breath, I was like, oh, so he's not auditioning for Artie. Oh this is great. We can be friends. Yeah, And then also wait a second, the Regis is out and you're in, like, why are you nervous? You know? Which would which would not fly today? Let me tell you. Yeah, now a lot of things wouldn't fly today, Chris. Yeah. Then them getting rid of a rid of a character of color to put to put my pasty acid that would not fly at all. Several casting things would not have flown. Both of you would have been would have been out. It would have just been me standing. Yeah, I was progressive. Okay. Anyway, Um, you know we hung out a lot before of us, which was really really fun. Did you kind of fly back? Oh no, you didn't, so, Jenny, you flew back to New York. And Chris, when you found out you got the part, did you just drive back to Clovis? Were you driving back to Clovis? We were driving to my aunt's house who she lived in Santa Barbara. Um. So we were in the car on the way after I think it's right after our final audition, um, either the studio or the network auditions. UM. And we got the call and oh my god, I remember my mom and I just my mom had to pull over. We were screaming. So it was just like he was. It was finally and so it was so strange too, because that moment, like I was, I knew it was a pilot. I knew there was a chance that it wasn't going to go, but but I just I think, just like my gut was like, this is it, this is gonna be this, this is happening. Um. And then I never really thought twice about it ever, not getting picked up app really I did the same thing. I It was when we all watched thee at Leah's house. She like secretly was that secretly she was supposed to be showing us or something, and she had gotten that she had a yeah, And I remember us than having a debate whether or not we thought people would like it, And I remember that was the first time that I had sort of approached that question at all, because I was like, we had a great time doing this. I like this show so sure. I just didn't think that it was an option for people not to also feel the same way we felt about it. Then the very reality of that being an option hadn't crossed my mind. It's like, oh no, I don't want this like Summer Camp to end. Yeah. I remember thinking like there it was a show about kids just like me, and like thinking how much of an audience. I think people were like, you know, we're worried if it would have an audience or not. And I always secretly saying myself, like, of course there's an audience, Like every theater kid in the world is going to love this show for sure. For sure, Christy, did you I mean we can get into like closer to like preggers when when that episode came out, But like in the pilot, um, what were you what were you thinking was anything like going through your head in terms of playing, um, a gay character when you were not out to the world. So, uh, my hometown has has come very far, um in the last couple of decades. But when I was growing up there, it was dangerous to be out. Um. Kids would get beat up. On one occasion, someone got stabbed and on their way to school. Um. So uh, being out and proud was just it was not an option. Uh. And so when I found out that they had written to this character for me, I was I was thrilled, and then anyone I finally got the script is when I realized it was the gay character, and I was terrified. Um. And I had a family member actually um, not not my parents of course, but I had a family actually asked me, are you going to do this? Like what? You can't do this? Like you you can't play a gay character like That's that would that would like like that that would ruin your life essentially. Um and so, but I I just wanted to get out and you know, be part of the industry so badly. I I just I knew, I I knew there was no there was no option, um but um um And I also I also I also knew that it would probably force me to answer and ask questions that myself that I wasn't quite ready to do. So um uh. And I'm just actually kind of grateful for it in a way because I think it kind of pushed me into to a path of honesty with myself. Um. But um yeah, no, I mean I was. I was absolutely terrified. And um you know, back then it was like people told told their clients, don't don't play characters because it'll ruin your career. But again, I have been auditioning for so long and never gotten anything that I did. There was no option for me. I had to do it. As scary as it was, did it feel like some sort of I don't know, judgment on you that this character that you knew they had written for you was gay and you were not necessarily there with yourself yet like oh absolutely, Like oh and I do I come off like I'm like they just know already. Haven't talked to them about this at all. Yeah, they they just assumed and they were right. They're all like, I mean, I've always always been very um well, I was much more feminate back then. Now, you know, life is hard in me. Um, but um, I started I started that show as Kimmy Schmidt. Now I feel like I'm friend leewoods. Uh. But yeah, it was and and it was, um, I mean it was. I mean I was called a fag at every single day in high school, um, every single day, like like like it was. I couldn't hide it, you know. I just I just wasn't ready to have that conversation with myself for anyone I knew yet. Um. And so so yeah I did it. Did It did kind of feel like a judgment. It could kind of feel like, um, I don't it's it's it's so weird because it's like it's like the world has come so far and I've come so far. It's it's so hard to go back and remember exactly how I felt in that moment. But I think it was just I was just so happy to finally get a job and and have an opportunity to do what I wanted to do. I believe that's really all I was really focused on at that age. You're like, yeah, whatever they want me to do, I'm just going to do it. Yeah. Yeah, I like me have to hire me in the first place. Yeah. Do you remember when we say, like, oh, do it for free? Yeah? Yeah, literally, like we were to get hired. Are you kidding me? Like no, we had the best time. I mean we were having like the best time in the world in those beginning times. Like that was such a special um a couple of like years of like you know, our our lives. But I remember you so vividly in that time, like so like you were so excited that I was part of Spring Awakening, and it kind of like gave me a different look outlook on like what I was doing and Broadway at the time too, because I had just been so wrapped up in Broadway too with Leah. But like you came in from you know, this small town, like oh my god, she's been on Broadway and that was really cool for me. Um. But also it's just like this sweet, sweet young boy who like is going to be thrust into the the arms of some crazy old grandma. That's kind of rap your eyes out and know, I just you know, and I felt protective of you in many ways just because of that. And I think we all did something. Yeah, I was. I was definitely the baby brother of the group for sure. When did we all start hanging out like that, like when we would go to each other's houses. Was that when we came back to do Showmance, Yes, because I moved into the park Libreya y scary elevator that used to drop like five I just remember every the first image that comes to my mind. We talked about the places Amber leaning outside of the window cigarette and I was like, she can't smoke a cigarette her voice and she's like yeah, and she's like it's fine, and it's like if the wind were so high up and I was like, these guys are crazy, jenuine we need to spring awakening. Because this was the first like moment. I mean, it was the first show I've ever been on like this, and it was the first moment I had ever been part of a cast, and so that was that was this, how this happened was all I knew that we were all bonding, we were all it was just like we were friends. There was no job involved. It was Spring Awakening like that, Like were you used to this or was this even more intense because you had to move somewhere? And it was more intense because I had to move somewhere. And I think that's like Chris and I really clung to each other and we drive to work every day together just because like you know, they're everybody else had their own lives going on outside of Glee, but like we moved into l A, and l A was Glee for us so um. But but being in Spring Awakening because the casts were so young, like you were very close and there was lots of you know, Drew drama and lots of like you know, I don't know, interloping, whatever you want to call it, but like we were just you know, it was very intertwined. But this was even more um just because the sheer size of what it was. And then also like living in our bubble of like um because I wasn't a part of the original cast spring making either, So I didn't experience that like, um, intense pressure and all the press and all the things that they were doing. Um, I kind of came afterwards. So you got it on this one though. Yeah, we were all such a tight unit, as we keep saying. But did you have that in high school or is this like your core group of friends like this and then you leave and then all of a sudden you have another core group of friends or was this sort of this was our college so it was this sort of like the first time that we were I don't know if we you want to say this, but like drinking and partying and hanging out with one another being young. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, no I UMU was such a goodie two shoes. I never um, I never went to those parties. I also was never invited. Um they didn't know they were missing. Yeah, yeah, no, they didn't want my European History Fund facts. Um we did you guys? Did you guys? Did um? I? Um? You know, I actually I really did not have a core group of friends when I was growing up. Um, maybe a little bit when I was when I was younger and I was doing like the shows in community theater, but but not not in high school for sure, definitely not. Um. I would like I would spend I would eat lunch with the lunch ladies because I thought they were they were great. Um. And I was very close with the teachers, um, and would spend you know, breaks and lunches in their classrooms and stuff. But I know, you guys are really my first my first core group of friends or my own age. Sorry. Yeah, just like and that that that explains a lot about me. The imprint we made, the residual trauma. Right, um, let's let's talk about um night terror. Sorry, that's also learning about Chris's night terrors. Wake up? Yeah, I still do that? Do you really not to laugh at it? I just had. We were like, we don't have sleepovers every weekend all the time, and I just remember Chris waking up screaming and I and I woke up like, oh my god, is he okay? And it happened every time, and then I started to get used to it. But it's like, you're okay, okay, it's just the yeager, don't worry. Oh I got a blushing so hard. Oh it's so funny. Oh. We also do you remember, like during that time, you and I started to talk on aim I am for us elderly people. Oh my god. And that was also like such a good way back then too. I think, like being a young gay kid, like chat rooms were a big thing to like find people, and no one would no one knows you. It's fine. The kids at school aren't going to find out, hopefully, And you and I sort of confided in each other. I don't know how early that happened either, but I remember pretty early. It was pretty early. I remember in my first apartment, um, we didn't have a washer dryer, and oh my god, I was going to bring that up earlier. Oh my god. Chris and I were an apartment hunting um together, right, We were looking for apartments and Chris, Chris is like one non negotiable was a washer and dryer inside the apartment, which I respect, in the unit I respect. I'd be like, Chris, but what about this one? This location is so good to be like this, why you're trying? But how I was like at the time, like the idea of like a laundry Matt was just like the scariest thing. Oh yeah, and it's still scarest me. You're from suburbia like you gotta have that washing entire suburbia. Yeah. I had only learned the year before, so I I am with you. I also my first job was at a dry cleaner, so that that, yeah, that had something to do with it too, makes sense. And sorry, I we digress. What were we talking about? Um? Oh? Yeah, I started talking? Yeah? Did you did you know? You both knew that you guys were gay, but you didn't like Chris was more out. I don't think the show, but like Kevin was a little bit later than than that, well outside of our core group, yes, but like us, I don't I don't know if you named it. It wasn't like we were like you gay, you gay. It wasn't that. It was just like an understanding. Oh. It was just like talking about oh yeah, I I I think I like boys, or I've hooked up with a guy before, and just sort of like the exchange of information of our experience levels. It was. It was yeah. And also I felt like because I had one of my best friends in high school, she and I sort of like came out to each other senior year, and so I had at least one person I could tell everything too in that way, which was like a huge relief, like a huge asset. And I just remember, like you, I'm like, I if he wants to talk about talk about this, if he is gay or maybe he's not. I just wanted to put myself out there in a way that you knew because it was scary to tell people. And I came from a world and I was like, I'm never telling anyone ever, Like that's just not gonna happen. And but I was like, I feel like we need to have some sort of like trust within each other, and if he needs to talk to somebody, like I would be so happy to be the person. But and the four of us got together and we were all just whatever. We talked about everything well. I mean, I had a crush on Kevin earlier on and Chris like found out about it, and he put a printed photo of Kevin in my drawer and I completely forgot about that and it was a printed photo of Kevin and my underwear drawer. I remember that. Thank you Chris again again A little brother, little brother. Remember when we spent that we had to sleep over at your house, Jenna, and I remember you calling me like, look at this picture. It's like you were like we're giving like tiger faces or something. Anyway. I okay, so let's talk about let's I'm curious because this also kind of ties into my next question of like Chris, when when Pragers was coming out and we were doing single Ladies and this was like the real episode that like this beautiful episode with you and Michaelmalley, um, where Kurt comes out, Like I feel like we were all kind of like is he ready for this? Does he? You know, like how does he feel? But I don't know that we ever like actually asked you that, like what were you feeling and like did you feel supported at the time? And like could were you prepared? You know? If I'm completely honest, there there you guys aside there there really wasn't much support for for for um uh young gay people back then. Um. I think it's it's it's like I think the whole thing with the what's his name? From Heartbreakers show that that thing that just happened right now, Yeah, that absolutely broke my heart because essentially the same thing happened to me. Um but in fifteen years ago, and were we were the same age immediately when that happened, when yeah, and I really wanted to, you know, tweet something in support of him. But I asked to just I don't want to be like, you know, the old guy trying to get attention, you know, trying to take someone and be like, oh, I don't know now, I'm sure you would have appreciated. It's also such a specific thing to experience that you may be one of the only other people that can't actually to r and it's like, you know, I I think coming out is I highly recommended. I think it's one of the best things I've ever done. Um. I highly I highly encourage everyone to come out when they are ready. UM. But to force someone to come out, especially publicly, that you know, unfortunately that when when you come out publicly, it does put your career and your safety at risk. I wish, I wish that wasn't the case. But there's still a lot of homophobia in this world, and there's still a lot of homophobia in this industry. Um. Again, I I can't emphasize enough how much I I think coming out is the best thing you could possibly do for yourself, so you get to have that freedom. Uh. But UM, for anyone to to push someone into that, I think that is just one of the cruelest things you could you could possibly do. Um. So, but one silver lining that I that I saw from from that was how much support. Uh. People were furious that it happened to him people, you know, And I think that's proof like how far the community, how far the community has come, because when it happened to me, it was it was very much like I deserved it. It was crickets and it was I deserved it. Um, Like you know what you signed for, right, I know, it's what I signed up for. Um. It was obvious. So therefore therefore I had no reason to be upset about it. That's a big thing. I think that was. Yeah, that's a huge putting that on you, that it was obvious and it was obvious. And the thing is I at the time, I like, I wasn't ashamed of it at all. I I very much knew that. I just you know, I wanted to be on a boat before I called myself a sailor. You know, I didn't want to label myself. I didn't know because I didn't have the experiences to know for sure yet. Um. And uh, yeah, so so there was there was that there was very little support. I would say back then, and that that was that made it a very very lonely experience. I mean, I remember I was even dirinkly. I would I would get you know, I would get called a faggot at auditions, um by casting directors and producers and directors and um. And like when I would tell people those stories, they would they would just say like, well, what do you expect You're you're an openly gay actor in Hollywood? What do you expect? You know? And now now I feel like if if that sort of like that was was ever leaked, you know, people would career, people would bring pitchforks. You know, you know, it's totally curious. Um so um. Yeah, so sorry, that's a long, long winded answer. You say there wasn't much There wasn't much support back then. I feel like I remember too, like and correct me if I'm wrong. Like you, I feel like there was a moment to like the show had been airing, and I feel like you went on a talk show or something and somebody and I don't remember, like I don't know if it was like Chelsea Handler or something where yeah yeah, and she just like I was like, oh, so you're gay, and and I remember after that something felt different or something felt weird in the sense of like he hasn't said that publicly and like she's taking it based off of the character, and no, actually she we we planned that, did you like? I I That's one of the reasons why I went on her shows because I remember watching it and being like scared and concerned. Yeah, because what happened was I during the first round of press for the first season, UM, I did an interview with UM with a with a publication, I'll say a publication, UM and uh. They asked me questions that the character about the show, not not one same question about me. And the article that was published was was it was It was basically like you know, oh, you know Chris coover this out and proud young kid, and I was and I was like, I was like eighteen, and you know, I hadn't even had the conversation with my parents or myself, you know, So it was it was just terrifying and and UM and I was devastated because it was just I just I wasn't ready. I was not ready to to to go there. And then UM and I was I was also afraid that UM, because I was so different from my character, Like the more similarities that that were presented between me and my character, the less of an actor people would think that I was, and that that that was also a fear that I had, UM and so and so then I did another interview where they they flat out asked me and I said, oh, I just want to I I think I said, I want to keep some mystery, you know. And then people were furious with me. Um, like all the blogs they were like, well, we you know, how dare you? Like? How you know all this all that, like, I mean, just awful awful things to say to an eighteen year old um for you know not you know. Um, it was, it was. It was a awful awful week. Um. And so I I told my team, I was like, I just want to I would rather read the unicorn than the elephant in the room, right, So I I just need I need to, I need to clarify it. Um and uh and I did and UM it was terrifying, but um terrifying and in a bit of a nightmare. But then once all the press stuff started dying down and I started doing the letters from kids around the world and the messages and you know, from kids from Egypt. You know that that that that legally could not come out, you know, things like that. That's when it was all it was all worth it, worth worth it for me, right. Yeah. I was gonna say, like, it feels like amongst all the the things you didn't ask for, um, part of it is like I don't know that you could have ever projected, like we could have ever seen what kind of an icon Kurt and Chris became in the media as well as one of the first you know, gay men out, and then we see the first gate you know kiss and and just all of these things that were happening on this massive show that millions of people watching. That there was like this massive responsibility thrust upon you at eighteen years old, that you had just been brought out um again, not against your world, you know, before you were ready and then I wasn't right yet. Yeah, and then this massive responsibility as well, like did that feel like did you feel pressure? Did you feel like those letters kind of got you through? Oh? Absolutely? And and and there were so many really truly horrifying experiences that I that I went through at that time, UM, And I never vocalized them because because because of that responsibility. I feel like I had a responsibility to be almost more of a it sounds so, you know, I was very pretentious when I was eighteen, looking back, right right, looking back now, I'm like, okay, he was, he needed to calm down. Um, but no, I feel like I had this responsibility to sort of, um live the fans, to be to live the fantasy that the show was creating, and and and to only h to only have positivity surrounding me so so to other kids and other you know, adults even wouldn't be afraid to come out. Um. So there was a lot that I internalized at that time. I'm sure I'll do a book about it someday. I'm sure you will, Chris, Yeah, I'm sorry. Well, I mean I might also will throw one of those through, one of those into the collection to the collection of a hundred yeah, uh yeah, yeah, so yeah absolutely. And sometimes sometimes the pressure was suffocating. Um. And it was you know, getting getting death threats constantly, and then and then having to put on a smile and and and and you know, uh, you know, I I had I had horrible agoraphobia for for a while because I was too afraid to leave the house, yeah, um to go with you though somewhere like people were also as much they love another level, but they were very like when we went in public places, the response to us was one thing. The response to you was very physical. People people would come on you, would grab me you and touch you, and it was like you were probably the most introverted like out of all of us. And maybe it was because with the responsibility, maybe you were just treating yeah where it was I've had to explain to a lot of people over the years where the response like to your daily life, You're going grocery shopping, know, you had to stop because everything everywhere you went, you were so recognizable and people had such a passionate and strong response to you. It was like unlike anything I had ever seen. And I don't think it was like a switch. I remember we went to Disneyland or something like that, all of a sudden people were treating you very differently. And maybe it was after preggers where there was this new sense of ownership over you, but no one knew you, and it was like, well, this is our friend, like back off, yeah, yeah, oh, I guess you're so sweet. Thank you, thank you, thank you for saying all that it makes me feel so you guys are so sweet for saying all these But yeah, I remember we were in Australia when um we're in Australia when Preggers aired, and I remember I remember leaving for Australia, like when we came back life life was we got off that. Yeah, we got off that plane and then it was I think for like a lot of us, because it was like the second or third episode that you know I started airing and the audience started building and building, and yeah, I remember that was just strange. It's like we went to a different world when we came back to a different world. Yes, we went to our first gate club. Sorry, oh my god, we know, I climbed the spider whip and they announced that you guys were there, right. That was in Arizona. But we were in Australia and it was our last night and we were going out and like Chris and I were the last two remaining, and we each had like a boy we were sort of like interested in. And then our boys went home together. We got to the class. So then we then Kevin I went back to the hotel. They're our jails I'm like, what do we do? What we do was because I climbed the spiderwhib speaking of because the two of you guys had like this little kind of knowing relationship. Um, we were curious, Chris, like because Kevin didn't have to come out because he wasn't outed, because people didn't really assume um because already wasn't Like what did that? Did you feel angry at all, like at that or resemble at all? Oh? Absolutely absolutely, if if I'm being completely honest, absolutely, I mean more so more sort just towards the situation, not not not you personally, Kevin, but which was like the yeah, yeah, I'm sure you deserved it to um, but no, because I at the time, I feel like like the people listening to have a drinking game every time I say, at the time, take a shot. But at the time they were sort of like this like underground gay world in the industry, UM that I just didn't get to participate in. UM like yeah yeah. And I feel like Kevin like got to see people, got to date people who were also closeted, where like I would go somewhere and like I would be pulled out of photos by publicists and agents because they did not want their clients taking a photo with me because they did not want like us to start and so so it that that was really that was way tough. But um, I mean, I like, I didn't I didn't go on my first date until I was twenty um um. And I remember actually I missed the Grammys to go on my first date. Um yeah, yeah. I got asked out and he was like, what are you doing Sunday? And I opened my calendar, said Grammys and I said nothing, I'm free. But because I was just so desperate, Yeah, what's another award show? Yeah, we weren't. We didn't win anyway, we didn't win anyway, and and Cord got to go in my place and I was like, yeah, that's that's that's good, you know. So um uh so yeah that was that. That really was just it's just why I mean, it's I think it's way different now. Um. I remember that too, because I remember because we were so close and all of a sudden when all that stuff started happening to you, everything you just explained, which I didn't know as in depth then where it was sort of like the first little riff or riff or like distance I felt out of any of us, and I was like, oh no, I'm like, I hope he's not mad at me. I don't know what I did. And I remember talking into Amber and pulling her aside, and she explained it to me, and I was like, oh, well that makes a lot of sense. And I was like, say something. She's like, just give him time, Just give him like he's going through a lot. And I was so thankful that she was just so honest and open because we were like that, and I I didn't want anything to get in between us, like our core friendship, because at that like that was the most important thing to me that was coming out of this show or in the experience. And so I do remember um sort of like walking on eggshells around you for like a couple of months, but your life had completely been upended and mine was relatively the exact same, and so I think I knew that I needed to just give you space because I was representative of the thing you were not able to have a different sort of way of living at that moment. But I also envied you in a lot of ways because I I didn't know how or if I ever would do that, and I was like, Oh, at least he's sort of like you said, it's pushed you to have to reconcile with yourself and reconcile with what that um meant maybe publicly going forward, and so there was a part of me. But I think honestly, once I saw all this ship you had to go through, I was like, and we're gonna step that back down. No one's going to know that. Yeah, it looks like a picnic and Chernobyl. Yeah, so the only time I will make out with someone is halfway around the world in Australia. Yep. That's oh my gosh. I was and I there was a point where Kevin even knew, like there was something about it that I was like, is he ever going to come out? And you're like, and somebody said, he doesn't have to announce it, he doesn't have to you. You're like, you're totally right. We just live in this media bubble where like everything has to be announced and you know, presented in some way. But it was more like, I just wanted you to be honest with yourself enough to be open with other people, and and that came with time obviously, But you know, we're all just so involved with each other's lives at that point that you're like constantly thinking about all that. There was also some pushback or at the top some of the executives um that worked on our show. I won't name names, but there were there was There were like two schools of thought. One person was very much what are you doing? You need to come out, because at some point, I think at the end of the first season, we were all like at upfronts or something, and I drunkenly came out to everyone and one of them was very would give me ship regularly afterwards, like you you need to come out. This is like you can't live like this, this is a lie. And I'm like I'm fine, I'm sort of um. And then that he was just like, well, yeah, we're taught to sort of fetishize the secret nous of it all. And I was like, oh, okay, let me try to wrap my head around that. And then there was also somebody else was like, oh, you can never come out, you need to do that, don't ever do it. Yeah. Yeah, And so I was very much battling those two camps the whole time as well, and I was like, I'm just gonna ignore it and pretend nothing's happening. Did you have anyone say anything to you Chris, Like, oh yeah, I had. I had many people tell me tell me, um, uh, never never say it. Just just be a mystery. And I never say it even even even if people know, just just you know, you're you're. You're more likely to get casts and things if you don't say it than if you do. Um, you're you know. Um. I had someone say, um, you need you need, you need to have a fake girlfriend, find a fake girlfriend, which okay, yeah, people were going to believe that, um general my fat girlfriend. So yeah, I remember, Yeah, that was Those are fun though, those those are kind of those are fun days. Um, my past with gay men, it's you invented being gay. You supported the community. Jendaye, I am a gay man. Okay, that's true. Let's talk aboutly for a second. Um, like Curtain Burt became such this iconic duo. Um, what was it like working with Mike and was he like what was he like for you? And in terms of like support for like on set and all of that, and can you talk about a dream A wonderful absolutely wonderful. I loved love working with him loved every single thing we did. Um. I think I think that is. I think that relationship is. Um. You know, the curtain blame thing took off pretty became pretty big, but um, I always think the curtain Burt thing was a little more um yeah important. Um And like, UM, I would be you know a few times I would go to the grocery store, like I have grown straight men walk up to me in tears and tell me how much it meant to them, you know, because it was like they put themselves in that situation. They asked themselves, would I support my child if you know, if they were if they were gay. Um. So, so yeah, that was I think, I think and I think it was. I think I do. I think it was. Um, one of the best parts of the show. It was, was that relationship great. I think it was the heart of like that was sort of the foundation of There was a singing in the comedy and high school relationships, but that was the most I think thought through and make meaningful relationship in the entire series. Yeah. And I remember when I got that script, when I got Greggors and I read, you know at the very end, um that the dad accepts him. I was furious. I was like, no, this is supposed to be Miami moment, Like, this is supposed to be the you know when I get to cry and scream and get kicked out, and I was like, what are they doing? What's wrong with them? You got to cry? Other times I cried. You were so good at it. It gave me a confixt you know it. I'm sure that comes with me at the Night Terrors too. It's a those were pretty um those scenes within though too and Curtain like so powerful, so good, yeah, really really good. When I feel like those like those scenes took with with Burton and Finn, like they were so real, they were so authentic, and and I kind of made me almost resent the stuff with Curtain Blaine, because it was kind of all fairy tale, you know, it was all like fantasy. It was all like you know, you know, you know, you know, young gay people go through quite a lot in high school, you know, finding a soul mate, uh at, you know, fifteen probably isn't experienced many people can resonate with. So um. I really missed all that that stuff, the more authentic stuff. That's really interesting that that makes like a lot of sense when when you say it now, Like I'm I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, you're right, Like what, we didn't get to work with you and Blaine like a whole ton, or like you and Darren like a ton. We were around you guys, but like you know, you're you're big numbers, and things were kind of off on. We were not in the story on their own, and yeah, I wish I were in the story Lane, but but they but you guys did have like the proposal and the things. It was always so massive and maybe that was just in like in Ryan's mind, like what he wished he had her, you know what I mean, just like large kind of bigger than life stories. But that makes a lot of sense. Well, it's like they're both fulfilling like different fantasies. Yes, having the dad that you want to have and then having the great love in high school. I guess you never get yeah yeah, because you know, yeah, yeah, how many books have you I'm honestly, I'm just floored by it, I really am. I'm just I've knew, always known you were a writer to be a bestseller, to write and whenever we text Chris or like, we'll be like, hey, we're doing this and he's like I'm writing and you're like, Okay, bye, see you in a moment. Yeah. But I'm like when he's like out of his writing cave because then like I'll see him out on the town. Yeah. But it was like we're going to see him every weekend. Yeah, it's the Land of Stories. Though. Congrats it's ten years, right, ten years. How many books have you written now? I am. I'm currently writing book number nineteen. Oh my insanee. Oh god, that's absolutely insane. You're a maniac. I love it. I also wrote a movie in like years three two or three of Glee. Yes, yes, like Lightning. Remember when you're writing, when you're writing the first book and you were just like we were all there talking ship, talking about things that does not matter, and you're like when when did those stories come to you? And when did you decide you were going to write them. I just want to talk about it for a second because it deserves so. The main characters, Alex and Connor, have have been my imaginary best friends since I was as for as long as I can remember. My mom used to read me fairy Tale before I would go to bed that night, and I would always have these crazy questions about the characters and the kingdoms and the motives and whatnot. And she got so tired of answering these questions for me. One night she said, Christopher, you're so if you're so inquisitive, why don't you just write your own down fairy tale? Um and so I started and um, and it was really wonderful because, um, my sister got very very sick. But when when I was young, UM, and so I used the Land of Stories as as an escape whenever, like she would, you know, have a grandma seizure or you know, an epileptic fit or or something, I would just I would just get up my pad paper and start drawing pictures of the Land of Stories or start writing you a little stories about land stories. So it really, really, uh was a very very therapeutic tool. And then years later, going back to what we were just talking to talk about earlier, when all that stuff was happening, UM, and I was, you know, I had all the pressure about being out and whatnot, I suddenly like found myself thinking about land stories again and again. And so it's really land Stories has always saved me twice um in my life. UM. And then um, everyone wanted me to do an autobiography, and I was like, absolutely not, I'm nineteen, that is horrible idea. Um. So I was like, what I'd love to do a children's book, and and so luckily I found the right right publisher. Wow. Wow, that's I've been working with them ever since. Yeah, broke amazing, Yeah, exactly amazing. Um. Sorry, I'm just I'm just blown away. Its book nineteen and really, how many have been published? How many you're out? Yeah, I'm just like shocked at like how I've known you for this long and I don't even I can barely get my shoes on in the morning. And he's written nineteen books. Oh I do a bare Okay, good, Okay, that makes yourself. You've made a human. That's pretty impressive. You've made a human with your body. Fair enough, fair enough, fair enough. I have nothing to show, only two fine months. No, that's it. She'll take care of you when you're older. These books aren't gonna do ship for me. I don't know the check. Yeah, do you have any Glee favorites? Favorite song do you have? Do you have a favorite song that we did? Um? Or I'm more just in what you hated the most? What I hate? Oh my god, what what was your least favorite song to do? Least favorite? Um? Oh my god, I think Umbrella was rough. Oh that was just the water And I was really upset at that, you know, yeah, and we're all just like ruining. Um, I think, um whatever that number we did? And oh no, I hated Ben when I had been Michael Jackson episode cut didn't it? God? I hope so maybe didn't. I was like, of all the songs in his catalog, this is the one, this is the one that I and I had to sing to my my my lover who was in a hospital. Bit like top I can't it was it was about a rat. I mean, I gotta I gotta say Turkey Lurkey really is up. Oh that made me so angry. I had worked for years to get a Scissor Sister song on that show, and then they matched up with so you're the one that's been sending Ryan hate mail for that song. There's like there's like uproar about about when that member. Hands are just really upset about that. That it was And then I had to go back because because because the Scissor Sisters were my friends, Jake and On and I had to go back and apologize because I was just I was devastated. Um, I think I think I think the worst one of all time was was Thriller? Right? That was? That was the Everyone hates that one the most. It It took a month to shoot because we kept they kept canceling the night shoot. It was the worst to shoot. It was. And I mean, while I wasn't even and I was warm in my trailer watching the parent traffic Roman Dott shut up. Really I wasn't. I wasn't because Mike Kurt wasn't at McKinley at that time. I was. I was see what happens when you suggest songs? A lot of times it backfired because it didn't happen the way you wanted it to. That's right. I was so desperate from Michael Jackson and then three hours of prosthetic makeup and bronchitis and the flu, yeah, pneumonia and yeaheen degrees like, oh never mind, I take it back. We're recapping UM Showmance soon and um we got that's a great episode. It's an excellent episode. I think it's better than the pilot. Oh wow, eight doesen. I watched it last time. I was like, oh my god, but push it. Oh my god. I was laughing, and I was like, this still laps. This is really funny. It's really really funny. We all go, We all really got into it, and we as the things we had to do to each other in that number. Yeah, we did. We got close real quick. Wasn't there like didn't we have to learn like five different versions of it? That was really I thought that was don't stop. There were stop. There were five different versions and push it. There were varying degrees of like sluttiness right right right right, and they kept it all. We did the most extreme version. Do you remember when we showed We had to rehearse it for the crew that morning, Like we had been sitting with this number for like three or four weeks, and then we get in there and I just remember sweet Andrew Mitchell's face were like looking out at everyone, and it's very early in the morning, and then all of a sudden, we're all humping each other. It's basically like the audience's reaction to it was like because there was a pilot, you know, there was nothing, there was nothing that was like vulgar or really like in this which is full full. Yeah. Do you remember do you remember the claw hands that you kept having on your your pants smallpants? That's what I swamp swampants. Okay, so everybody can start watching the show now for my swamp hands, which I still I still do. There's something about the way that my my limbs and my um my joints go that like, this is really comfortable. I even sleep like this. It's the game man in you cons and wrist break the swamp hands. Um. I still also um. Before we let you go, we have to talk about your Golden Globe win for a second, because right this was one of the best moments of my life. Oh gosh. We sat there and we're at the table with you and they and they're like the winner is and they call your name and I saw and I'll never forget it. The color leave your same. Yeah, And there wasn't much he was trying. You were translucent. You turned into Casper, right, absolutely, I will never I was flush. We were like, Chris, you have to go up. Yeah. Yeah. Someone I think it was either Diana or actually had to pull me up. I feel like both of them did. And we're screaming while screaming at that table. You can watch it on YouTube, but I don't even I don't even remember. I don't remember that, Like I I I literally left my body and I just I just gone through something similar at the Emmy's. We're going up the Emmy's. Every like award prediction said I was going to win the Emmy and then I didn't. And then the Golden Globes. Every word thing said that, um uh eric Ston Street was gonna win the Golden Globe and then he didn't. I once, So I was just it was I had my biggest thing going into that work show was like how can I drink the champagne without being caught on camera? Because that was to eat we were we didn't chocolate, some champagne on the table and that was it right right. And I was twenty at the time, and I was like I just want I want some champagne like everyone else, you know. And so I was like timing it like, Okay, my category is coming up. As soon as it's over, I can start drinking the champagne, keeping on the cameras and then, um, I'm sure people are handing your champagne after you won. Oh yeah, yeah they were. Um in your acceptance speech also, which I don't I think we were all crying and screaming and blacking out as well. But you said, screwed the kids, screwed that kids, screw that kids. Um, yeah, I'm amazing. I mean what, thanks, I don't want I don't know where that came from, all right, thank god, thank god. I had like speech and debate training in high school, but that I have no idea where it came from. But um, it's great. It was really great. I remember looking back. I remember I like I flugged a line that I was trying to say where I meant to I meant to say something like, UM, like I owe this to you guys, but I was thinking I owe this to you guys, and you deserve this as much as I do. And I think I said, like you owe this too. Oh wait, no, I mean you deserve I look at that, like, oh my god, thank god, no one, thank god, people knew what I was trying say. Yeah, you would owe me, Like I feel like that that was a good one. I'm not being so worried to going up there. I don't know why. Of course, you had something like you know you're gonna say something great. Yeah, you always were eight steps very quick. But I remember, I'm glad I didn't shoot my pants walking up there. That's what I was scared of. I was like, what is he going to say? I've never seen any of my friends went an award before, Like, what the hell is going to happen? Yeah, I'm really glad the globes are coming back because that means my award isn't canceled. And oh my god, that's right, Chris were We're so lucky that you you came on to chat with us. Honestly, I know we bug you for a million things and like you're always games, so we really appreciate it. Oh, I love you guys. Thank you. Guys always had my back and of course thank you. Thank you for giving me a safe space to talk about stuff. Now we appreciate it. Yeah, if you wake up with night terrors, with any more trauma, you can come back on and just air it and imagine like a fainting goat. Like night terrors is a good good good title for podcast is should we start one? Horror? Start one? What? Yeah? What is your night terror? That's what we'll We'll start that. Okay, Anyway, next time on What is Your Night Terror with Chris, Kevin and Jenna. We gotta get Amber Jack Jack Jack Presents Night Terrors. Um No. Thank you for being so open and with us and sharing your experience. And we we love you, and people, we love you, love you guys so much, Thank you, love you. Thanks again to Chris for joining us, Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week. We're going to recap Showman's so come on back and subscribe. Tell your friends, tell your children, tell your wives, tell your husband's, tell your sisters and brothers to come listen. Anyone with the phone, computer, Alright, see you next week. Okay, bye bye bye