Tommy Caldwell’s experience being held captive in Kyrgyzstan unlocks a new state of mind that propels him to become the greatest big wall climber of all time.

This conversation first aired in 2021. It is a companion episode to the one we ran last week about Beth Rodden’s experience of the same trip: “A Climber Loses Her Grip.” Same “Slight Change of Plans”, but wildly different reactions. 

You can check out Tommy’s memoir here, and Beth’s memoir here.