For years, Brené Brown’s research has shaped how millions of us understand concepts like shame, vulnerability, and resilience. So, as Maya prepared to launch her new book, The Other Side of Change, there was one person she knew she had to talk to. In this special conversation with early readers of the book, Brené and Maya explore why uncertainty rattles us, how it reshapes us, and what it reveals about who we are—and even take a quick detour to gush over the hottest show on TV.

If you enjoyed this episode, check out Brené’s previous appearance on A Slight Change of Plans: “Brené Brown on Our Flawed, Imperfect Selves”

In case you missed it—Maya’s book, “The Other Side of Change” is officially a NYTimes bestseller! Order your copy at changewithmaya.com/book, or wherever you like to buy books.