In my books and talks, I discuss how great businesses actually look more like social movements. And that's why I wanted to talk to Charmadine read she is leading a movement. What started off as a nail salon became an entire media network. But it's less about the business and it's more about how Charmadine is empowering women. She's a leading voice in England fighting for gender equity in the workplace. Most importantly, all her businesses give women a real sense of belonging and power. I learned so much talking to Charmadine. This is a bit of optimism. Charmadine, thank you so much for joining me. I think that you are the patron saint of powerful women.

In my books and talks, I discuss how great businesses actually look more like social movements. And that's why I wanted to talk to Charmadine read she is leading a movement. What started off as a nail salon became an entire media network. But it's less about the business and it's more about how Charmadine is empowering women. She's a leading voice in England fighting for gender equity in the workplace. Most importantly, all her businesses give women a real sense of belonging and power. I learned so much talking to Charmadine. This is a bit of optimism. Charmadine, thank you so much for joining me. I think that you are the patron saint of powerful women.

That's really interesting because I would say that I don't want to be the saint of anyone or anything.

That's really interesting because I would say that I don't want to be the saint of anyone or anything.

Well, I think that's what makes people saintly, isn't it. They assume the spotlight. They would rather give the credit to other people. This is why we, the people who find you inspiring and wonderful, anoint you sainthood. You don't get to choose it yourself.

Well, I think that's what makes people saintly, isn't it. They assume the spotlight. They would rather give the credit to other people. This is why we, the people who find you inspiring and wonderful, anoint you sainthood. You don't get to choose it yourself.

Okay, I'll take.

Okay, I'll take.

It perfect, Thank you. No, I just love that the work that you do. I mean, I know you're very public about this, that the work that you do is about inspiring encouraging women to find their power and be powerful. What I'm curious about is for you, how you found your power and your confidence. Was it something that you've always had? Was it built into how you were raised? Do it something did you have to find your confidence?

It perfect, Thank you. No, I just love that the work that you do. I mean, I know you're very public about this, that the work that you do is about inspiring encouraging women to find their power and be powerful. What I'm curious about is for you, how you found your power and your confidence. Was it something that you've always had? Was it built into how you were raised? Do it something did you have to find your confidence?

Yeah? It's something that I reflect on a lot because from a really young age, I knew I was different, and then I have spent a lot of time wondering why was I different and analyzing why always different? And I don't think that confidence, or leadership, or any of these qualities that we bestow on others is just innate. I think it's also a muscle that you have to practice. I think it's behaviors, it's reflection, it's all of these things you have to do to make it strong. But what I would say is that I grew up in such a warm, wonderful, super strong female Jamaican family. I've got like eight aunties. They're all incredible. They're so funny and vivacious. And I grew up seeing amazing women, and especially amazing Black women everywhere. So of course, I never questioned my abilities. I never ever thought I couldn't do anything I wanted, and people were really supportive of me. I would say that my confidence has definitely faltered over the four decades of my life, but in those early years, that's when I definitely was support by teachers, family, friends, everyone.

Yeah? It's something that I reflect on a lot because from a really young age, I knew I was different, and then I have spent a lot of time wondering why was I different and analyzing why always different? And I don't think that confidence, or leadership, or any of these qualities that we bestow on others is just innate. I think it's also a muscle that you have to practice. I think it's behaviors, it's reflection, it's all of these things you have to do to make it strong. But what I would say is that I grew up in such a warm, wonderful, super strong female Jamaican family. I've got like eight aunties. They're all incredible. They're so funny and vivacious. And I grew up seeing amazing women, and especially amazing Black women everywhere. So of course, I never questioned my abilities. I never ever thought I couldn't do anything I wanted, and people were really supportive of me. I would say that my confidence has definitely faltered over the four decades of my life, but in those early years, that's when I definitely was support by teachers, family, friends, everyone.

When did you start your first business?

When did you start your first business?

I started my first business when I was twenty four, and it was completely naive, had no idea what I was doing. I tend to start all of the things I start by saying, wouldn't it be cool if? Like, wouldn't it be cool if dot dot dot? And when I was twenty four, it was wouldn't it be cool if I had a nail salon where you could get anything you wanted on your nails and it was total vibes and it felt more like an artist's studio or the true origin of the word salon, where conversations happened and I literally just brain vomit an idea and I always see the idea through to like a completion point. Do you get what I mean? So I'm not thinking, oh, I'd love to start a nail salon, It's always wouldn't it be cool? If I started this and then there would be this, and then this would happen, and this would happen, and then wouldn't it be amazing?

I started my first business when I was twenty four, and it was completely naive, had no idea what I was doing. I tend to start all of the things I start by saying, wouldn't it be cool if? Like, wouldn't it be cool if dot dot dot? And when I was twenty four, it was wouldn't it be cool if I had a nail salon where you could get anything you wanted on your nails and it was total vibes and it felt more like an artist's studio or the true origin of the word salon, where conversations happened and I literally just brain vomit an idea and I always see the idea through to like a completion point. Do you get what I mean? So I'm not thinking, oh, I'd love to start a nail salon, It's always wouldn't it be cool? If I started this and then there would be this, and then this would happen, and this would happen, and then wouldn't it be amazing?

I mean a lot of people do say it, wouldn't it be cool if, and then they don't act. But you said wouldn't it be cool if? And then you it. But I think we have to give you more credit. It has been said that you were the one who sort of started the whole crazy nail fad.

I mean a lot of people do say it, wouldn't it be cool if, and then they don't act. But you said wouldn't it be cool if? And then you it. But I think we have to give you more credit. It has been said that you were the one who sort of started the whole crazy nail fad.

Well, there were about six people that I was following on early Internet on Tumbler who were doing really interesting things with noils. I was super obsessed with Japan, and I went to Japan and I just saw these super cool nail magazines where there were painting all kinds of intricate designs. And I came back to London and I was like, we don't have anything like this. Wouldn't it be cool? If you know? Dot dot dot. I also saw a really strong mail culture in LA But like I said, there were six people that I followed super early on the Internet that were painting, but nobody was making it like a movement, and nobody was necessarily utilizing the Internet to share and distribute these images. And I'm a big, big advocate for what are the technologies that are around me at the time that are going to propel my idea to the next level. When I was a teenager, I taught myself Adobe in design and Photoshop. I think I must have actually been about twenty. I taught myself because I thought, if I can use these computer programs to design whatever is in my mind, then nobody's going to stop me from doing anything. So when I had the idea for the now said on, I got my crack copy of Photoshop out and I like designed a logo, and then I did all now menus and I designed like flyers and things, and I then started using Tumbler to share the images. And the thing about tumblers, millions of people would be looking at your images around So I wouldn't say that I am ever an inventor of things. But what I think I'm really good at is taking something that might already exist, packaging it up and sharing it to new audiences in a way that makes sense to them.

Well, there were about six people that I was following on early Internet on Tumbler who were doing really interesting things with noils. I was super obsessed with Japan, and I went to Japan and I just saw these super cool nail magazines where there were painting all kinds of intricate designs. And I came back to London and I was like, we don't have anything like this. Wouldn't it be cool? If you know? Dot dot dot. I also saw a really strong mail culture in LA But like I said, there were six people that I followed super early on the Internet that were painting, but nobody was making it like a movement, and nobody was necessarily utilizing the Internet to share and distribute these images. And I'm a big, big advocate for what are the technologies that are around me at the time that are going to propel my idea to the next level. When I was a teenager, I taught myself Adobe in design and Photoshop. I think I must have actually been about twenty. I taught myself because I thought, if I can use these computer programs to design whatever is in my mind, then nobody's going to stop me from doing anything. So when I had the idea for the now said on, I got my crack copy of Photoshop out and I like designed a logo, and then I did all now menus and I designed like flyers and things, and I then started using Tumbler to share the images. And the thing about tumblers, millions of people would be looking at your images around So I wouldn't say that I am ever an inventor of things. But what I think I'm really good at is taking something that might already exist, packaging it up and sharing it to new audiences in a way that makes sense to them.

You definitely pop up, and you definitely seem to have brought it to Britain.

You definitely pop up, and you definitely seem to have brought it to Britain.

Sure, but popularized it by virtue of the technology. I used, which, if I'm honest with myself, was not intentional at the time. I was just using the tools I had. And what I mean by that is I could design a flyer, but I couldn't code a website. So because I couldn't code a website, I had to use Tumbler because there weren't any other options to me. And then I'd google, you know, HTML, change background blue, and then I'd tweet my Tumbler page and I just use that, thinking that that would be the best tool to achieve the outcome I wanted, which was how can I have a page which is constantly showing noils. Little did I realize at the time that the back end of that would have millions of people rebloging those images, and that's what led to the explosion there could be. And I'm always curious about this in history. I'm always curious about how history changes because of one usually technological advancement, combine mined with a particular subculture and a particular individual doing exactly that thing exactly that time. Because for all I know, there could have been somebody in Sheffield doing a now lot of salm that was similar. But they asked two guys to build a website that was static, that never got updated ever, and therefore the world didn't know them. So it was sort of a happy accident, you know.

Sure, but popularized it by virtue of the technology. I used, which, if I'm honest with myself, was not intentional at the time. I was just using the tools I had. And what I mean by that is I could design a flyer, but I couldn't code a website. So because I couldn't code a website, I had to use Tumbler because there weren't any other options to me. And then I'd google, you know, HTML, change background blue, and then I'd tweet my Tumbler page and I just use that, thinking that that would be the best tool to achieve the outcome I wanted, which was how can I have a page which is constantly showing noils. Little did I realize at the time that the back end of that would have millions of people rebloging those images, and that's what led to the explosion there could be. And I'm always curious about this in history. I'm always curious about how history changes because of one usually technological advancement, combine mined with a particular subculture and a particular individual doing exactly that thing exactly that time. Because for all I know, there could have been somebody in Sheffield doing a now lot of salm that was similar. But they asked two guys to build a website that was static, that never got updated ever, and therefore the world didn't know them. So it was sort of a happy accident, you know.

I think there's a lot of truth in that, and I think that a lot of people take credit for things that right place, right time. I definitely saw that in my work as well. I did a TEDx talk at a time where there weren't that many TEDx talks, and it became the number one view ted X talk on YouTube at one hundred thousand views, which by today's standards is like nothing.

I think there's a lot of truth in that, and I think that a lot of people take credit for things that right place, right time. I definitely saw that in my work as well. I did a TEDx talk at a time where there weren't that many TEDx talks, and it became the number one view ted X talk on YouTube at one hundred thousand views, which by today's standards is like nothing.

And when I think about the legacy and impact that I want to have, it's how many people did anything that I put out, how many of them were sent in a different direction because of something that I did or said. So, rather than thinking about scale, so it doesn't matter if you had one hundred thousand people or one hundred million people, it's more about for the short period in which you were here, which might be a year, it might be a lifetime, what is the impact that you had on culture, on business, on art and fashion, whatever it is that sends people in a different direction.

And when I think about the legacy and impact that I want to have, it's how many people did anything that I put out, how many of them were sent in a different direction because of something that I did or said. So, rather than thinking about scale, so it doesn't matter if you had one hundred thousand people or one hundred million people, it's more about for the short period in which you were here, which might be a year, it might be a lifetime, what is the impact that you had on culture, on business, on art and fashion, whatever it is that sends people in a different direction.

Yes, yes, and yes, I mean the point I was making is that my career is very much similar to yours in the sense that I got lucky that the technology of the day allowed my ideas to spread. Had I not had YouTube, I'd be a guy with a nice idea talking in boardrooms and that would be it.

Yes, yes, and yes, I mean the point I was making is that my career is very much similar to yours in the sense that I got lucky that the technology of the day allowed my ideas to spread. Had I not had YouTube, I'd be a guy with a nice idea talking in boardrooms and that would be it.

I'm sure you would have found a way.

I'm sure you would have found a way.

Oh, very very kind. You're very kind. But the point is is that the timing of it was right. You know, I got very lucky on the timing. And I loved your comparison of where scale matters there, which is I think those two things have been confused in our modern day, where the collection of you and the collection of followers or the collection of money becomes the goal, which is scale rather than the ripple effect. I'm going to put something out there and hopefully they will do something with that that will benefit them, benefit their friends, and it may or may not come back to me. But I think that's the thing where you talk about you and I use similar language which I didn't expect, which is, I don't really talk about my business. I talk about the movement, and you too are talking about the movement of the Nails. That it became a movement and you were involved, You were one of the leaders of the movement, whether you invented it or not.

Oh, very very kind. You're very kind. But the point is is that the timing of it was right. You know, I got very lucky on the timing. And I loved your comparison of where scale matters there, which is I think those two things have been confused in our modern day, where the collection of you and the collection of followers or the collection of money becomes the goal, which is scale rather than the ripple effect. I'm going to put something out there and hopefully they will do something with that that will benefit them, benefit their friends, and it may or may not come back to me. But I think that's the thing where you talk about you and I use similar language which I didn't expect, which is, I don't really talk about my business. I talk about the movement, and you too are talking about the movement of the Nails. That it became a movement and you were involved, You were one of the leaders of the movement, whether you invented it or not.

Yeah. And the second thing about scale, I've been obsessed with this for a while, which is this concept of de growth. Like I think we I'll speak for myself. I, since I was fourteen years old, have always worked like most people, I work more than the regulated forty hour week, right, And when I think about what I'm working for, and I'm a big believer reparator principle, so I'll always be like, I'm working twenty percent more than I should be always a right, what is that extra twenty percent four? It's always to get to the next milestone, to get to the next promotion, the next rung on the ladder. And lately, over the last few years, particularly since the pandemic, I've been thinking more and more about just maintenance. I've pretty much got everything I need. I've got a safe house, We've got the things I want, I've got food on the table, I've got wonderful friends. What is it that I'm working that extra twenty percent four? Like killing out myself to have this constant growth? You know, I've been obsessed with like when I was fourteen, Right, I'm going to work really hard so I can afford to go to UNI London. Got to UNI London. I'm going to work really hard so I can graduate with a first. Graduated with the first, then I can get a job so then I can do this, do that to that. And actually I'm quite exhausted. When you've been working since you're fourteen years old. I'm just like, actually, I'm just going to maintain for a while. I'm going to hunker down and be at this not on scale level of following my curiosities, pursuing my passions and my ideas. And there'll be a natural growth because I just believe in natural evolution. It won't be rocket shit growth and it won't be crazy like double digit growth, but it'll be enough growth to maintain myself.

Yeah. And the second thing about scale, I've been obsessed with this for a while, which is this concept of de growth. Like I think we I'll speak for myself. I, since I was fourteen years old, have always worked like most people, I work more than the regulated forty hour week, right, And when I think about what I'm working for, and I'm a big believer reparator principle, so I'll always be like, I'm working twenty percent more than I should be always a right, what is that extra twenty percent four? It's always to get to the next milestone, to get to the next promotion, the next rung on the ladder. And lately, over the last few years, particularly since the pandemic, I've been thinking more and more about just maintenance. I've pretty much got everything I need. I've got a safe house, We've got the things I want, I've got food on the table, I've got wonderful friends. What is it that I'm working that extra twenty percent four? Like killing out myself to have this constant growth? You know, I've been obsessed with like when I was fourteen, Right, I'm going to work really hard so I can afford to go to UNI London. Got to UNI London. I'm going to work really hard so I can graduate with a first. Graduated with the first, then I can get a job so then I can do this, do that to that. And actually I'm quite exhausted. When you've been working since you're fourteen years old. I'm just like, actually, I'm just going to maintain for a while. I'm going to hunker down and be at this not on scale level of following my curiosities, pursuing my passions and my ideas. And there'll be a natural growth because I just believe in natural evolution. It won't be rocket shit growth and it won't be crazy like double digit growth, but it'll be enough growth to maintain myself.

And I think it's gotten worse over the past, you know, thirty years. We've become growth obsessed in a companies brag, you know, like you meet a young entrepreneur and they say, oh, I have a hypergrowth company. My standard response is, show me one article. I don't You can pick the publication Mad Magazine or Harvard Business Review, like I don't really care, Like you pick the publication, show me one article that says that hypergrowth is better than any other kind of growth or healthy for the business. I defy you to find one. And the reality is it's not in fact of anything. It breaks things that speed, and it appears in our modern society that the speed of growth has become sort of metric or score by which to measure someone's self worth or the value of their business. I have to believe that the reason it's become more popular is not driven by good business practice, but it's been driven by the venture capital and private equity backings where they want to get money out sooner rather than later, and so if you grow faster, I do better with my investment. It's the pressures, not actually good business savvy.

And I think it's gotten worse over the past, you know, thirty years. We've become growth obsessed in a companies brag, you know, like you meet a young entrepreneur and they say, oh, I have a hypergrowth company. My standard response is, show me one article. I don't You can pick the publication Mad Magazine or Harvard Business Review, like I don't really care, Like you pick the publication, show me one article that says that hypergrowth is better than any other kind of growth or healthy for the business. I defy you to find one. And the reality is it's not in fact of anything. It breaks things that speed, and it appears in our modern society that the speed of growth has become sort of metric or score by which to measure someone's self worth or the value of their business. I have to believe that the reason it's become more popular is not driven by good business practice, but it's been driven by the venture capital and private equity backings where they want to get money out sooner rather than later, and so if you grow faster, I do better with my investment. It's the pressures, not actually good business savvy.

It's really true. And the word healthy is exactly what that word is. Because when I hear about hyper growth or scale, my immediate thought is who's suffering because of that? And nine times out of ten I would say ninety nine percent of the time it will be the founder. But they won't be saying it. They may be saying it, they might not be saying it, But the first person who's suffering, having been through that myself, is the founder. And then all of your employees, because your employees feel the stress. They feel the pressure. I remember, like the really beginning part of my startup and throughout the pandemic, you'd be working like twelve sometimes sixteen hours. I'd be at my computer, and I remember thinking, for the first time, this is why Silicon Valley people drink liquid food. Because the time it's taken me to stop doing my work and go and make a meal is time that I should be working on my startup. And that's when I knew that's unhealthy. It's unhealthy to be Like, any time spent working away from my startup is time that is like not well spent, and you just become obsessed with the metrics and obsessed with the growth and obsessed with the charts. But it's not a healthy relationship. And I think that period of my life is definitely when I lost my confidence for the first time in my life. Actually, I'd never been on confident before I raised bench capital and started a start.

It's really true. And the word healthy is exactly what that word is. Because when I hear about hyper growth or scale, my immediate thought is who's suffering because of that? And nine times out of ten I would say ninety nine percent of the time it will be the founder. But they won't be saying it. They may be saying it, they might not be saying it, But the first person who's suffering, having been through that myself, is the founder. And then all of your employees, because your employees feel the stress. They feel the pressure. I remember, like the really beginning part of my startup and throughout the pandemic, you'd be working like twelve sometimes sixteen hours. I'd be at my computer, and I remember thinking, for the first time, this is why Silicon Valley people drink liquid food. Because the time it's taken me to stop doing my work and go and make a meal is time that I should be working on my startup. And that's when I knew that's unhealthy. It's unhealthy to be Like, any time spent working away from my startup is time that is like not well spent, and you just become obsessed with the metrics and obsessed with the growth and obsessed with the charts. But it's not a healthy relationship. And I think that period of my life is definitely when I lost my confidence for the first time in my life. Actually, I'd never been on confident before I raised bench capital and started a start.

So when did that happen. Was that for the nail business after the nail business?

So when did that happen. Was that for the nail business after the nail business?

No, so with one Nails. I started that with a little bit of money. It was just a business for fun because I was consulting. I just actually thought, oh, I can get my nails done for free, you know, in my and then I had this idea like, wouldn't it be cool if you could click the picture and book it instead of screenshotting it off tumblow at Instagram, emailing it to the nail salons, you know, back and forward over the prices. So I thought, I'm going to build that. I'm going to figure out how to build it, and I'm going to build it. And I raised my first twenty eighteen I think. Then I closed and now seal On a year later in an effort to focus purely on this startup. And it was really fun pply in those principles of small business which I was running. I was running a small business to a venture backed business, and not the same. If I was to do it again, I know exactly what to do to tick the boxes of what the venture capital system needs, because it's not necessarily how I naturally build a business. I would get the jankiest version of the product out as fast as possible. I would spend hundreds of thousands of my VC money on ads, all kinds of ads, Facebook ads, Google ads, as ad ads. I would get as many users as possible, even if they churned because the product was so janky, and then I'd go back out and raise more money to improve the product, and that's kind of what they want to do. You need to be raising money every eighteen months. You need to be growing as many users as possible, even if your product is terrible. And the difference with me is I've always been a reputational, an integrity based person, so it wouldn't make me feel good if the product was a bit janky because I know that there's a girl on the other end of it who's relying on that product to run her business. I don't want to let her down. I'm not a faceless founder. So the process of building a venture back business was kind of the antithesis to how I naturally operate, and the tension between that was really challenging for me because I kept thinking, I'm not doing it right, I'm not doing it right, and maybe I'm not good enough, maybe this isn't for me. And the standard by which I was holding myself to was also completely not applicable to a black female, older as well founder. So very fortunate to be the first black woman in the UK to raise venture capital. There was no precedent for another black woman who had built to start up in the UK that I could look at to be like, how did that person navigate various challenges. I'll give you one example of a challenge, which I've talked about previous. There are so many biases in our daily lives, right, and trying to hire the best engineers who were typically men. For a female founded, black founded company that was also in a space that was quite female as well, like Beauty was a female in you know, typically female endeavor, I couldn't really hire the best engineers. And I didn't have that network, that inbuilt network that let's say a twenty six year old MBA or Imperial grad had, or someone who'd gone to Oxford. So I found the entire thing challenging. And all I kept doing was questioning myself instead of questioning the system. And what I do now when I'm feeling this internal tension is I actually start thinking Macro, I'm like, am I feeling discomfort because this system wasn't designed for me? Or am I feeling discomfort because of how I'm operating within this system? And at the time when I was doing it, I wasn't thinking like that. I was just panicking.

No, so with one Nails. I started that with a little bit of money. It was just a business for fun because I was consulting. I just actually thought, oh, I can get my nails done for free, you know, in my and then I had this idea like, wouldn't it be cool if you could click the picture and book it instead of screenshotting it off tumblow at Instagram, emailing it to the nail salons, you know, back and forward over the prices. So I thought, I'm going to build that. I'm going to figure out how to build it, and I'm going to build it. And I raised my first twenty eighteen I think. Then I closed and now seal On a year later in an effort to focus purely on this startup. And it was really fun pply in those principles of small business which I was running. I was running a small business to a venture backed business, and not the same. If I was to do it again, I know exactly what to do to tick the boxes of what the venture capital system needs, because it's not necessarily how I naturally build a business. I would get the jankiest version of the product out as fast as possible. I would spend hundreds of thousands of my VC money on ads, all kinds of ads, Facebook ads, Google ads, as ad ads. I would get as many users as possible, even if they churned because the product was so janky, and then I'd go back out and raise more money to improve the product, and that's kind of what they want to do. You need to be raising money every eighteen months. You need to be growing as many users as possible, even if your product is terrible. And the difference with me is I've always been a reputational, an integrity based person, so it wouldn't make me feel good if the product was a bit janky because I know that there's a girl on the other end of it who's relying on that product to run her business. I don't want to let her down. I'm not a faceless founder. So the process of building a venture back business was kind of the antithesis to how I naturally operate, and the tension between that was really challenging for me because I kept thinking, I'm not doing it right, I'm not doing it right, and maybe I'm not good enough, maybe this isn't for me. And the standard by which I was holding myself to was also completely not applicable to a black female, older as well founder. So very fortunate to be the first black woman in the UK to raise venture capital. There was no precedent for another black woman who had built to start up in the UK that I could look at to be like, how did that person navigate various challenges. I'll give you one example of a challenge, which I've talked about previous. There are so many biases in our daily lives, right, and trying to hire the best engineers who were typically men. For a female founded, black founded company that was also in a space that was quite female as well, like Beauty was a female in you know, typically female endeavor, I couldn't really hire the best engineers. And I didn't have that network, that inbuilt network that let's say a twenty six year old MBA or Imperial grad had, or someone who'd gone to Oxford. So I found the entire thing challenging. And all I kept doing was questioning myself instead of questioning the system. And what I do now when I'm feeling this internal tension is I actually start thinking Macro, I'm like, am I feeling discomfort because this system wasn't designed for me? Or am I feeling discomfort because of how I'm operating within this system? And at the time when I was doing it, I wasn't thinking like that. I was just panicking.

Something you said that I thought was really interesting, which is, you know, very often when things aren't working out, we blame ourselves. But in your case, you took a hard looks like is it me or is it the system? And it shook your confidence until you realized the system wasn't organized for you to succeed. The question I have is where's the line, you know, where's the line of blaming the system where you should be taking personal accountability versus destroying yourself confidence because it's actually not you, it actually is the systems, Like, how can you tell the difference when you need to take it on yourself versus when you can let yourself off the hook.

Something you said that I thought was really interesting, which is, you know, very often when things aren't working out, we blame ourselves. But in your case, you took a hard looks like is it me or is it the system? And it shook your confidence until you realized the system wasn't organized for you to succeed. The question I have is where's the line, you know, where's the line of blaming the system where you should be taking personal accountability versus destroying yourself confidence because it's actually not you, it actually is the systems, Like, how can you tell the difference when you need to take it on yourself versus when you can let yourself off the hook.

I don't believe in blame as a thing at all. I feel the world has evolved, like any organism, into a space of inequality, and I never think I can't do this because of X, Y Z door. I can't do this because the system wasn't designed for me. What I do is have compassion for myself. So when I'm thinking that I'm not winning in areas where I would normally and naturally be winning, what is happening here instead of beating myself up about it and turning myself into a victim. I have a moment of compassion and what I actually do when I have really hardcore problems that are like creating a lot of worries. I have this spreadsheet which is like, what is the issue? What are the facts are the issue? Each one of these is a column, right, so the first column what is the issue? The second column what are the facts are the issue? The third column is where do I feel most powerless in this issue? And then I'm like what can I control? And then once I'd done that, I felt a bit better, But I didn't feel better until I added the final column, which is where can I have compassion for myself? And the compassion might be you've never done this before? How on earth would you magically know what to do? You've never done this before. The compassion might be you didn't speak that language, the language of engineering, so how could you possibly have known what to do? So it's rather than blaming the system, I think, where can I have compassion for myself that I'm not thriving in this imperfect organism? And actually the next stage is where do I have control? And what can I do? To get myself back on top. Like I'm a natural survivalist. You know, some of my friends will jokingly say I'm like a cockroach, like there'll be an apocalypse and I'll still be operating. And that's because, through whatever hypervigilance, childhood trauma, I'm always going to put myself into a place of self preservation. So it might be that I need to move into a different area of industry, I might need to move and communicate with different people. I'll I see myself as this constantly evolving entity that is going to find the safest place to survive and thrive. So these things are really important to me to have a model and a principle for when I'm feeling at my worst or at my most not confident because the whole system that we're in now is so overwhelming, so much information, you know, so much trauma and collective trauma going on, that these tools are essential for me to survive. So I had to create my own tools, and that goes to your point on the accountability. I'll always take accountability the first thing. I'll always be like, where is my responsibility in this? As well as then having the compassion for myself about it.

I don't believe in blame as a thing at all. I feel the world has evolved, like any organism, into a space of inequality, and I never think I can't do this because of X, Y Z door. I can't do this because the system wasn't designed for me. What I do is have compassion for myself. So when I'm thinking that I'm not winning in areas where I would normally and naturally be winning, what is happening here instead of beating myself up about it and turning myself into a victim. I have a moment of compassion and what I actually do when I have really hardcore problems that are like creating a lot of worries. I have this spreadsheet which is like, what is the issue? What are the facts are the issue? Each one of these is a column, right, so the first column what is the issue? The second column what are the facts are the issue? The third column is where do I feel most powerless in this issue? And then I'm like what can I control? And then once I'd done that, I felt a bit better, But I didn't feel better until I added the final column, which is where can I have compassion for myself? And the compassion might be you've never done this before? How on earth would you magically know what to do? You've never done this before. The compassion might be you didn't speak that language, the language of engineering, so how could you possibly have known what to do? So it's rather than blaming the system, I think, where can I have compassion for myself that I'm not thriving in this imperfect organism? And actually the next stage is where do I have control? And what can I do? To get myself back on top. Like I'm a natural survivalist. You know, some of my friends will jokingly say I'm like a cockroach, like there'll be an apocalypse and I'll still be operating. And that's because, through whatever hypervigilance, childhood trauma, I'm always going to put myself into a place of self preservation. So it might be that I need to move into a different area of industry, I might need to move and communicate with different people. I'll I see myself as this constantly evolving entity that is going to find the safest place to survive and thrive. So these things are really important to me to have a model and a principle for when I'm feeling at my worst or at my most not confident because the whole system that we're in now is so overwhelming, so much information, you know, so much trauma and collective trauma going on, that these tools are essential for me to survive. So I had to create my own tools, and that goes to your point on the accountability. I'll always take accountability the first thing. I'll always be like, where is my responsibility in this? As well as then having the compassion for myself about it.

I love that spreadsheet.

I love that spreadsheet.

Oh yeah, I'm a spreadsheet obsessive.

Oh yeah, I'm a spreadsheet obsessive.

That's so good. Why did you start the stack World? I guess we should first tell people what Stackworld is and then we'll talk about why the.

That's so good. Why did you start the stack World? I guess we should first tell people what Stackworld is and then we'll talk about why the.

Stat world is a media platform for women that has a community attached to it. Community is a big driver. Instead of building a media platform that requires scale, what if we created a community first that we knew who every reader was. We built it in eight weeks. We launched it on International Women's Day, and we launched first and foremost an editorial platform. The content pillars were beauty, wellness, business, culture, and politics society. And I was like, this is what now the modern woman is interested in. It's not about fashion and shopping and celebrity and lifestyle. We actually care about changing the world that we live in. So, you know, reflecting on that, blaming the system versus taking responsibility, there's another step, in my opinion, which is changing it. There's like an infiltration and a change. And actually, if you were in power and you designed and created the system, what would that look like? It was like, could you create an ecosystem of ideas, content, events, community all under one platform that wasn't in separate siloed systems. And I guess that's what the Stack world is. It's media and community for mission driven women we really care about seeing a different world.

Stat world is a media platform for women that has a community attached to it. Community is a big driver. Instead of building a media platform that requires scale, what if we created a community first that we knew who every reader was. We built it in eight weeks. We launched it on International Women's Day, and we launched first and foremost an editorial platform. The content pillars were beauty, wellness, business, culture, and politics society. And I was like, this is what now the modern woman is interested in. It's not about fashion and shopping and celebrity and lifestyle. We actually care about changing the world that we live in. So, you know, reflecting on that, blaming the system versus taking responsibility, there's another step, in my opinion, which is changing it. There's like an infiltration and a change. And actually, if you were in power and you designed and created the system, what would that look like? It was like, could you create an ecosystem of ideas, content, events, community all under one platform that wasn't in separate siloed systems. And I guess that's what the Stack world is. It's media and community for mission driven women we really care about seeing a different world.

There are networking organizations, there are female entrepreneur networking organizations. What do you hear from those inside the stack world community that they say is different?

There are networking organizations, there are female entrepreneur networking organizations. What do you hear from those inside the stack world community that they say is different?

The things we hear consistently about people who join the Stack World is that they've never been in a space that is so diverse and interesting with curious women who want to explore their intellectual side as well as just their cultured or creative side. So if you wanted to attend a public lecture, it would normally be with older people, the establishment, mainly white people in London where we are. It wouldn't necessarily be a cool girl who happens to be a DJ, but she also did a master's in philosophy. Most of the women's communities that are in existence today tend to be solely focused on business, business and entrepreneurship or life stages like motherhood or menopause. What my goal with the Stack World is to be a different addition to those really important communities or communities for women are important to have safe space to talk about the things that you need is important. But what I was looking for was a space where I could really go deep on some of the things that I felt that were injustices in the world, but I didn't know how to solve them. I didn't know what to do. You cannot change the world by business alone at all. You can't just be an entrepreneur change the world. Being an entrepreneur is not going to solve an inequality. In my opinion, you need all of these different forces in society working together. So we have members who are in the art world, for example, who will actively support exhibitions solo exhibitions of women because you don't often see those. We have people in the healthcare we have people who are in policy design. We have women are all different industries who are all pulling in the same direction. And my hope is that when I'm on my deathbed that there is Stack World alumni in positions of power all over the world using the principles by which they learned from our community to design a more fair and equal world. And I feel like being around clever women just makes me feel so good.

The things we hear consistently about people who join the Stack World is that they've never been in a space that is so diverse and interesting with curious women who want to explore their intellectual side as well as just their cultured or creative side. So if you wanted to attend a public lecture, it would normally be with older people, the establishment, mainly white people in London where we are. It wouldn't necessarily be a cool girl who happens to be a DJ, but she also did a master's in philosophy. Most of the women's communities that are in existence today tend to be solely focused on business, business and entrepreneurship or life stages like motherhood or menopause. What my goal with the Stack World is to be a different addition to those really important communities or communities for women are important to have safe space to talk about the things that you need is important. But what I was looking for was a space where I could really go deep on some of the things that I felt that were injustices in the world, but I didn't know how to solve them. I didn't know what to do. You cannot change the world by business alone at all. You can't just be an entrepreneur change the world. Being an entrepreneur is not going to solve an inequality. In my opinion, you need all of these different forces in society working together. So we have members who are in the art world, for example, who will actively support exhibitions solo exhibitions of women because you don't often see those. We have people in the healthcare we have people who are in policy design. We have women are all different industries who are all pulling in the same direction. And my hope is that when I'm on my deathbed that there is Stack World alumni in positions of power all over the world using the principles by which they learned from our community to design a more fair and equal world. And I feel like being around clever women just makes me feel so good.

I mean, goes back to the beginning you're talking about a movement. It's common cause, not necessarily common industry.

I mean, goes back to the beginning you're talking about a movement. It's common cause, not necessarily common industry.

Yeah, I would say fundamentally, a movement is key because the networks that exist today where systems of power thrive, tend to be institutional. So you all went to Harvard, you all went to Oxford, you all did an MBA, you all worked at PwC or whatever. You know, when you're an alumni of an institution, there is a power within that. And I'm like, how can I create a new alumni? But it's through this community.

Yeah, I would say fundamentally, a movement is key because the networks that exist today where systems of power thrive, tend to be institutional. So you all went to Harvard, you all went to Oxford, you all did an MBA, you all worked at PwC or whatever. You know, when you're an alumni of an institution, there is a power within that. And I'm like, how can I create a new alumni? But it's through this community.

You made a comment earlier about men are better at maintaining the crew as they get older. A. Why do you think that is? And B is this your attempt to sort of help women maintain their crew.

You made a comment earlier about men are better at maintaining the crew as they get older. A. Why do you think that is? And B is this your attempt to sort of help women maintain their crew.

Women will tend to put others first and put their own well being and desire and need for connection and community second. They will deprioritize themselves and prioritize others instead of maintaining that group. And there are places where I hate to stereotype and generalize, but this is from my fifteen years of running women's communities. I've seen that time and time again. However, if I say to you, know, my brother who goes and watches football every Sunday. You have to come because I'm in town to my birthday lunch. He'd be like, yeah, come after football. It's not even a question. He not for one second does he think that he's going to decline this ritual that he does with his friends in order to put what I'm doing first. And I think it's that boundary setting that is firmer with in terms of male ritual, and the boundary is far more flexible when it comes to female ritual. And like I said, it's I try, you know, in my work it comes up all the time, but I try to not make sweeping generalizations on gender or sex rather at all. But it's just something I've seen time and time again.

Women will tend to put others first and put their own well being and desire and need for connection and community second. They will deprioritize themselves and prioritize others instead of maintaining that group. And there are places where I hate to stereotype and generalize, but this is from my fifteen years of running women's communities. I've seen that time and time again. However, if I say to you, know, my brother who goes and watches football every Sunday. You have to come because I'm in town to my birthday lunch. He'd be like, yeah, come after football. It's not even a question. He not for one second does he think that he's going to decline this ritual that he does with his friends in order to put what I'm doing first. And I think it's that boundary setting that is firmer with in terms of male ritual, and the boundary is far more flexible when it comes to female ritual. And like I said, it's I try, you know, in my work it comes up all the time, but I try to not make sweeping generalizations on gender or sex rather at all. But it's just something I've seen time and time again.

There's so much conversation about boundary setting, and I think some of it is very healthy, and some of it becomes unhealthy. Maintaining boundaries becomes an excuse for irresponsibility or selfishness or all these other things. I really like that you describe boundaries around community and about ritual, But those rituals usually include other people. So the boundaries aren't I'm protecting myself from you, but rather I'm protecting my relationships from distraction.

There's so much conversation about boundary setting, and I think some of it is very healthy, and some of it becomes unhealthy. Maintaining boundaries becomes an excuse for irresponsibility or selfishness or all these other things. I really like that you describe boundaries around community and about ritual, But those rituals usually include other people. So the boundaries aren't I'm protecting myself from you, but rather I'm protecting my relationships from distraction.

I think it's also saying that this crew is important to my health and well being as well. I think that we forget sometimes how imperative it is to maintain social connections to stay alive. You know, there have been so many reports globally that women report loneliness far more than men, And when I think of early motherhood as an example, it can be one of the most loneliest times when you know you're looking after this child, and you're alone with this child, and you feel that there's no one around you, which is why you know, mum's networks and communities are so important as well. But it's how you perceive a relationship as part of your health instead of just thinking, oh, I've got lots of friends, because the statement of that I've got lots of friends is not necessarily looking at what the end result of those friendships are to your actual health. When I'm around people who I feel like see me and understand me, I'm actually like an hot air balloon, like I'm bolstered up, like it makes me feel, yes, I can achieve anything. I do have the confidence to do that. It's all, you know. It goes back to the top of this conversation like where do you get your confidence from? I get a lot of confidence by having these people in my life that see and understand me. Now when you change your thinking around friendships to I have a lot of friends that I love, to my friendships are essential to my health and well being well and it's a non negotiable. It's not even a question.

I think it's also saying that this crew is important to my health and well being as well. I think that we forget sometimes how imperative it is to maintain social connections to stay alive. You know, there have been so many reports globally that women report loneliness far more than men, And when I think of early motherhood as an example, it can be one of the most loneliest times when you know you're looking after this child, and you're alone with this child, and you feel that there's no one around you, which is why you know, mum's networks and communities are so important as well. But it's how you perceive a relationship as part of your health instead of just thinking, oh, I've got lots of friends, because the statement of that I've got lots of friends is not necessarily looking at what the end result of those friendships are to your actual health. When I'm around people who I feel like see me and understand me, I'm actually like an hot air balloon, like I'm bolstered up, like it makes me feel, yes, I can achieve anything. I do have the confidence to do that. It's all, you know. It goes back to the top of this conversation like where do you get your confidence from? I get a lot of confidence by having these people in my life that see and understand me. Now when you change your thinking around friendships to I have a lot of friends that I love, to my friendships are essential to my health and well being well and it's a non negotiable. It's not even a question.

Okay, can you tell me something that you've been involved in over the course of your career. It doesn't matter if it was commercially successful or not, that you absolutely loved being a part of it. And if everything that you did in your life was like this one specific thing, you'd be the happiest person alive.

Okay, can you tell me something that you've been involved in over the course of your career. It doesn't matter if it was commercially successful or not, that you absolutely loved being a part of it. And if everything that you did in your life was like this one specific thing, you'd be the happiest person alive.

Something I was a part of, which I organized and orchestrated, was a hackathon for un women in UK on ideas on how to create technology to keep women safe on the streets. We had one hundred women in our office on the weekend, so you know, pushed all the computers and filing cabinets aside, and there were girls with their laptops just sprawled out on beanbags, working in teams that'd never met each other before. And then we had the judges, the chief executive, you and women UK. We had another charity exec there and in the space of a day, the teams had designed one you had even built prototype in a day, and they pitched these different apps. And the warmth I felt from it was because it ticked all my boxes. It was connecting women together, it was helping them understand how the world functions. In this case, it was urban design and city design and how you know it wasn't necessarily safe for women. It was tech and innovation, like how to use technologies to make a change. And then finally it was also through the public sector or charity sector outside of just doing something for business and just for profit. So it was all the things that were really important to me in connection impact, education and developing design in a city. And if I could just do those all over the world, I'd be pretty pretty happy.

Something I was a part of, which I organized and orchestrated, was a hackathon for un women in UK on ideas on how to create technology to keep women safe on the streets. We had one hundred women in our office on the weekend, so you know, pushed all the computers and filing cabinets aside, and there were girls with their laptops just sprawled out on beanbags, working in teams that'd never met each other before. And then we had the judges, the chief executive, you and women UK. We had another charity exec there and in the space of a day, the teams had designed one you had even built prototype in a day, and they pitched these different apps. And the warmth I felt from it was because it ticked all my boxes. It was connecting women together, it was helping them understand how the world functions. In this case, it was urban design and city design and how you know it wasn't necessarily safe for women. It was tech and innovation, like how to use technologies to make a change. And then finally it was also through the public sector or charity sector outside of just doing something for business and just for profit. So it was all the things that were really important to me in connection impact, education and developing design in a city. And if I could just do those all over the world, I'd be pretty pretty happy.

Tell me an early, specific, happy childhood memory, something specific that I can relive with you, Not like we've visited my grandparents every weekend, but something specific I can relive with you.

Tell me an early, specific, happy childhood memory, something specific that I can relive with you, Not like we've visited my grandparents every weekend, but something specific I can relive with you.

My first ever memory. Yeah, when I was three years old. I remember climbing up the top of the climbing frame in my nursery school. Getting to the top of the climbing frame and screaming at the top of my voice, I'm the king of the castle and you're the dirty rascal. That was it. It's like I knew I wanted to be on top from three years old. What I should have done is said, I'm the queen of the castle. But I remember being three years old climbing into the climbing frame and singing, I'm the king of the castle and you're the dirty rascal to nobody, by the way, to nobody, just.

My first ever memory. Yeah, when I was three years old. I remember climbing up the top of the climbing frame in my nursery school. Getting to the top of the climbing frame and screaming at the top of my voice, I'm the king of the castle and you're the dirty rascal. That was it. It's like I knew I wanted to be on top from three years old. What I should have done is said, I'm the queen of the castle. But I remember being three years old climbing into the climbing frame and singing, I'm the king of the castle and you're the dirty rascal to nobody, by the way, to nobody, just.

To the air, right to yourself. Yeah, that's where the confidence began. So what I love about you is you are a climber. And the thing that you've learned over the course of your life and what I'm learning from you have got this conversation is that you only know what you know, and you can climb further, higher, faster, better, stronger when you surround yourself with people who know more than you do. Like the examples you gave, that wasn't like let's start a business and get rich. That was like, let's figure something out. The hackathon was let's figure this out. And I wonder what if is let's figure this out and you're incurably curious. You want to figure things out and learning is one of those ways you're taking a course, but working with and around people who are smarter than you or more experienced than you is a big part of it. And I understand why community matters to you, because being insatiably curious and wanting to figure stuff out. You've learned that by doing it with people, not only do you figure things out, but it feels really good when you do.

To the air, right to yourself. Yeah, that's where the confidence began. So what I love about you is you are a climber. And the thing that you've learned over the course of your life and what I'm learning from you have got this conversation is that you only know what you know, and you can climb further, higher, faster, better, stronger when you surround yourself with people who know more than you do. Like the examples you gave, that wasn't like let's start a business and get rich. That was like, let's figure something out. The hackathon was let's figure this out. And I wonder what if is let's figure this out and you're incurably curious. You want to figure things out and learning is one of those ways you're taking a course, but working with and around people who are smarter than you or more experienced than you is a big part of it. And I understand why community matters to you, because being insatiably curious and wanting to figure stuff out. You've learned that by doing it with people, not only do you figure things out, but it feels really good when you do.

It feels good when we do.

It feels good when we do.

Yes collective you, yes you, plural Sean. I could talk to you all day. You are magic. I'm glad people like you exist. I hope that more women join Stackworld. And I just leave very inspired, and I have learned a lot about the importance of my friendships, the points of my crew, how to maintain those crews, but also when things go wrong, how to evaluate those things. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much.

Yes collective you, yes you, plural Sean. I could talk to you all day. You are magic. I'm glad people like you exist. I hope that more women join Stackworld. And I just leave very inspired, and I have learned a lot about the importance of my friendships, the points of my crew, how to maintain those crews, but also when things go wrong, how to evaluate those things. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for the work that you do as well, Like this is consistent, incredible work that is inspiring so many people. So yeah, thank you, thanks for having me.

Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for the work that you do as well, Like this is consistent, incredible work that is inspiring so many people. So yeah, thank you, thanks for having me.

If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like even more optimism, check out my website Simon sinek dot com for classes, videos, and more. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.

If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like even more optimism, check out my website Simon sinek dot com for classes, videos, and more. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.