Creativity is something innate in all of us. But sometimes our creative instinct becomes so incessant, so overwhelming, it becomes intrusive, an obsession that keeps coming up at night. So what do you do when you have a creative vision that you just can't let go of, but you have no idea how to bring it to life? My guest today might have some answers for you. Stay tuned. Can you write a song if you don't know how to play an instrument? Can you make a movie if you don't know how to direct? Can you choreograph a piece of dance if you don't know how to dance? It turns out the answer is yes. If you're familiar with the artist Bobby Hall, you probably know him as the platinum selling rapper Logic. Bobby made waves in the music world with his brand of positive, introspective hip hop, and he was nominated for two Grammys for his song White eight hundred two seven three eight two five five, which was named after the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. In the three weeks after the release of that song, calls to the hotline increased twenty seven percent. He's also the only rapper who's written the best selling novel, and he's written his own movie, and no one knows what he's going to do next. The one thing we do know is that you don't actually have to have the skills to make stuff. You just have to have the vision to make This is a bit of optimism. Do you prefer Bobby or logic? Even though I like Bobby logic.

Creativity is something innate in all of us. But sometimes our creative instinct becomes so incessant, so overwhelming, it becomes intrusive, an obsession that keeps coming up at night. So what do you do when you have a creative vision that you just can't let go of, but you have no idea how to bring it to life? My guest today might have some answers for you. Stay tuned. Can you write a song if you don't know how to play an instrument? Can you make a movie if you don't know how to direct? Can you choreograph a piece of dance if you don't know how to dance? It turns out the answer is yes. If you're familiar with the artist Bobby Hall, you probably know him as the platinum selling rapper Logic. Bobby made waves in the music world with his brand of positive, introspective hip hop, and he was nominated for two Grammys for his song White eight hundred two seven three eight two five five, which was named after the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. In the three weeks after the release of that song, calls to the hotline increased twenty seven percent. He's also the only rapper who's written the best selling novel, and he's written his own movie, and no one knows what he's going to do next. The one thing we do know is that you don't actually have to have the skills to make stuff. You just have to have the vision to make This is a bit of optimism. Do you prefer Bobby or logic? Even though I like Bobby logic.

You can call me whatever you want, man, I'm just floating on a rock figuring it out.

You can call me whatever you want, man, I'm just floating on a rock figuring it out.

Oh my goodness, dude, we made it way.

Oh my goodness, dude, we made it way.

I mean I got an a for effort.

I mean I got an a for effort.

Yeah, no, for sure.

Yeah, no, for sure.

But you don't understand, bro, I just talked to my mom for the first time in fifteen years on the phone.

But you don't understand, bro, I just talked to my mom for the first time in fifteen years on the phone.

What Yeah, I know.

What Yeah, I know.

That's why I was like a little late to start adding. Eden is the whole thing anyway, You caught me out a crazy ass tarn.

That's why I was like a little late to start adding. Eden is the whole thing anyway, You caught me out a crazy ass tarn.

Dude, Why haven't you talked to your mom in fifteen years?

Dude, Why haven't you talked to your mom in fifteen years?

Let's start there, Because she was very abusive and mentally unstable when I was a child, But I know that was due to her own abuse throughout her lifetime, which led to her mental declined and essentially just kind of ruined her human experience on this earth and then it was a crazy She's had a crazy ass life.

Let's start there, Because she was very abusive and mentally unstable when I was a child, But I know that was due to her own abuse throughout her lifetime, which led to her mental declined and essentially just kind of ruined her human experience on this earth and then it was a crazy She's had a crazy ass life.

You know, how old are you?

You know, how old are you?

I'm thirty four, so fifteen years ago. So this is this is up to nineteen. So you have helt your mom since you were nineteen. And when you say she had her own challenges when she had a crazy life, what what? What was her life?

I'm thirty four, so fifteen years ago. So this is this is up to nineteen. So you have helt your mom since you were nineteen. And when you say she had her own challenges when she had a crazy life, what what? What was her life?

Well? You know, she it's it's super deep, you know what I'm saying.

Well? You know, she it's it's super deep, you know what I'm saying.

From just like physical and sexual assault and abuse and all that kind of stuff.

From just like physical and sexual assault and abuse and all that kind of stuff.

It's just something that was it stayed with her.

It's just something that was it stayed with her.

You know. She has PTSD and trauma and a lot of that stuff that I had to deal with, like when I was a kid, you know what I'm saying, Like she almost killed me when I was a kid, She like almost choked me to death and stuff and wild stuff. Man, just being around, you know, having killers and murders and robbers in the house.

You know. She has PTSD and trauma and a lot of that stuff that I had to deal with, like when I was a kid, you know what I'm saying, Like she almost killed me when I was a kid, She like almost choked me to death and stuff and wild stuff. Man, just being around, you know, having killers and murders and robbers in the house.

And she's an addict and so is my father.

And she's an addict and so is my father.

So being surrounded by violence and drugs and guns and craziness makes.

So being surrounded by violence and drugs and guns and craziness makes.

For good books, you know what I mean.

For good books, you know what I mean.

So how did it come about that you talk to your mom just now, like literally just before you got on with me. Who reached out to who.

So how did it come about that you talk to your mom just now, like literally just before you got on with me. Who reached out to who.

I've I had tried to talk to my mom for a couple of years or just over the years, I would like reach out or I'd talk.

I've I had tried to talk to my mom for a couple of years or just over the years, I would like reach out or I'd talk.

To a brother or a sister, and they kind of be like, nah, like.

To a brother or a sister, and they kind of be like, nah, like.

You know, don't like she's not really in a good space or this or that. It's just never kind of worked out. I talked to my brother like last year or the year before and told him that I wanted to speak to my mom, you know, cause she's getting old. She's sixty three, you know what I'm saying. So, and she's done a lot of drugs in her day. So I'm like that time's gonna come, you know. And I had already previously like kind of forgiven her for all the stuff that she put me through as I've grown and matured and aged as a human being, and you know, just come to the realization of essentially she was just a broken person at that time, you know what I mean. And she had told my brother if he wants to talk to me, he can write me a letter, and that really hurt me because I just wanted to hear my mom's voice, you know, because it had been so long, and when I talked to her, today though, she was like, that wasn't my tone, you know, So I kind of took it like if he wants to talk to me, he can write me a letter.

You know, don't like she's not really in a good space or this or that. It's just never kind of worked out. I talked to my brother like last year or the year before and told him that I wanted to speak to my mom, you know, cause she's getting old. She's sixty three, you know what I'm saying. So, and she's done a lot of drugs in her day. So I'm like that time's gonna come, you know. And I had already previously like kind of forgiven her for all the stuff that she put me through as I've grown and matured and aged as a human being, and you know, just come to the realization of essentially she was just a broken person at that time, you know what I mean. And she had told my brother if he wants to talk to me, he can write me a letter, and that really hurt me because I just wanted to hear my mom's voice, you know, because it had been so long, and when I talked to her, today though, she was like, that wasn't my tone, you know, So I kind of took it like if he wants to talk to me, he can write me a letter.

I'm like, what kind of shit is that? I just want to talk to my mom.

I'm like, what kind of shit is that? I just want to talk to my mom.

But she was like, no, I just wanted to see where you were at mentally. She was like, before I put myself in that because maybe I was upset or angry or wanted that.

But she was like, no, I just wanted to see where you were at mentally. She was like, before I put myself in that because maybe I was upset or angry or wanted that.

But which is not who I am, you know.

But which is not who I am, you know.

But she's even told me, she's like, I haven't followed your career because it just hurts too much to it hurt too much to see you or whatever. So anyway, needless to say, it was a crazy conversation. It was super positive and very nice and great, and I just hadn't eaten and I was starving, so that's why we.

But she's even told me, she's like, I haven't followed your career because it just hurts too much to it hurt too much to see you or whatever. So anyway, needless to say, it was a crazy conversation. It was super positive and very nice and great, and I just hadn't eaten and I was starving, so that's why we.

Had to started a little late. Good way to start the pod, though.

Had to started a little late. Good way to start the pod, though.

To hear this from you is it's a perfectly good thing to start talking about. A lot of people who go through childhoods like you had don't sound like you now, or maybe they do, but many many years later that you have forgiveness. I'm very curious about people who go through extreme difficulty and abuse and things like that. How they get to the point of forgiving the people who hurt them.

To hear this from you is it's a perfectly good thing to start talking about. A lot of people who go through childhoods like you had don't sound like you now, or maybe they do, but many many years later that you have forgiveness. I'm very curious about people who go through extreme difficulty and abuse and things like that. How they get to the point of forgiving the people who hurt them.

I think it's looking at it from a realistic standpoint, you know, because how can you actually be like angry at a drug addict, you know what I'm saying, like a person with a disease, Like, how could you be angry at, you know, someone with mental health issues.

I think it's looking at it from a realistic standpoint, you know, because how can you actually be like angry at a drug addict, you know what I'm saying, like a person with a disease, Like, how could you be angry at, you know, someone with mental health issues.

I think we tend to as human beings we do that.

I think we tend to as human beings we do that.

Like if you have a dad who was abusive or this or that, but it's like he himself was abused, so because of that, you know, he was never really the right figure in the first place, but he was the only figure there, so then you can hold that resentment, you know what I mean. But I think as you age and grow and get older, it's like, you know, there are some straight up evil people in the world.

Like if you have a dad who was abusive or this or that, but it's like he himself was abused, so because of that, you know, he was never really the right figure in the first place, but he was the only figure there, so then you can hold that resentment, you know what I mean. But I think as you age and grow and get older, it's like, you know, there are some straight up evil people in the world.

That's not really who I'm talking about here, you know what I mean.

That's not really who I'm talking about here, you know what I mean.

I'm talking about people who leave their families or spend all their money or use them for money because of a drug addiction or this or that.

I'm talking about people who leave their families or spend all their money or use them for money because of a drug addiction or this or that.

Like that's it's actually different. Is it messed up? Of course it's terrible.

Like that's it's actually different. Is it messed up? Of course it's terrible.

You know, my dad stole my social Security card because we have the same name. Name is Sir Robert Bryson Hall. The second his name is Robert Bryson Hall. And it's like when I was ten, he ruined my credit. So it's like there's things like that, or I could step back and be like, yo, he was like living for an addiction. So as an adult, I can put myself in that position, in that situation and find solace in the fact that it was it wasn't a.

You know, my dad stole my social Security card because we have the same name. Name is Sir Robert Bryson Hall. The second his name is Robert Bryson Hall. And it's like when I was ten, he ruined my credit. So it's like there's things like that, or I could step back and be like, yo, he was like living for an addiction. So as an adult, I can put myself in that position, in that situation and find solace in the fact that it was it wasn't a.

Man trying to take advantage of some child.

Man trying to take advantage of some child.

It was, you know, a man who was internally broken and essentially the only thing that could free him from such purgatory was the substance in which he was.

It was, you know, a man who was internally broken and essentially the only thing that could free him from such purgatory was the substance in which he was.

Trying to escape through.

Trying to escape through.

So when you when you when you see it that way, forgiveness isn't that hard.

So when you when you when you see it that way, forgiveness isn't that hard.

Yeah, But you're looking at it as if you're a third party, right, because though that is all true, you also were forced to live a more difficult life and suffered as a result of their disease. So, for example, your credit was ruined by the age of ten, So when you're at an age where you actually need credit, you've gotten none through note fold of your own. You had to fix your credit yourself or you had to overcome, you know, the challenges of not having parents who are there few and all of those things you still had to overcome. And I have to believe at some point in your life you felt a little bit like a victim, like they did this to me, or I have to do this because of them, or I'm suffering more because of them. Like at what point or what happened that the conversion happened, Because there's no way you went through that and you were fine with it the whole time and had forgiveness in your heart from the beginning. No way.

Yeah, But you're looking at it as if you're a third party, right, because though that is all true, you also were forced to live a more difficult life and suffered as a result of their disease. So, for example, your credit was ruined by the age of ten, So when you're at an age where you actually need credit, you've gotten none through note fold of your own. You had to fix your credit yourself or you had to overcome, you know, the challenges of not having parents who are there few and all of those things you still had to overcome. And I have to believe at some point in your life you felt a little bit like a victim, like they did this to me, or I have to do this because of them, or I'm suffering more because of them. Like at what point or what happened that the conversion happened, Because there's no way you went through that and you were fine with it the whole time and had forgiveness in your heart from the beginning. No way.

No, I definitely didn't have forgiveness in my heart the whole time. But what was crazy is I always had this sense of.

No, I definitely didn't have forgiveness in my heart the whole time. But what was crazy is I always had this sense of.

I had common sense.

I had common sense.

So like, you know, I walk in on my father smoking crack, trying to deny it in the bathroom, and he's like, and I'm like, Okay, don't smoke crack.

So like, you know, I walk in on my father smoking crack, trying to deny it in the bathroom, and he's like, and I'm like, Okay, don't smoke crack.

You know.

You know.

I walk in on my mother bloody and beaten by some random dude she brought home, and I'm like, this is not how you treat women. You know, my brothers are in the streets shooting guns and resulting in certain things. I won't even say publicly, and I'm like, maybe I shouldn't run around the like it's just as as it's happening.

I walk in on my mother bloody and beaten by some random dude she brought home, and I'm like, this is not how you treat women. You know, my brothers are in the streets shooting guns and resulting in certain things. I won't even say publicly, and I'm like, maybe I shouldn't run around the like it's just as as it's happening.

That was where my mind was.

That was where my mind was.

So I don't know what that is, man, I don't know what you call it regarding forgiveness and specific I think that was more so just maturity growth and especially fatherhood. You know, it puts things into perspective, you know. I think about the things that I endured and went through based upon decisions made or rather not by my parents, primarily my mother, and I look at my child and think, I could never do that to a kid.

So I don't know what that is, man, I don't know what you call it regarding forgiveness and specific I think that was more so just maturity growth and especially fatherhood. You know, it puts things into perspective, you know. I think about the things that I endured and went through based upon decisions made or rather not by my parents, primarily my mother, and I look at my child and think, I could never do that to a kid.

I could have never done that to this pure soul. But I think that's also what makes me awesome, you know.

I could have never done that to this pure soul. But I think that's also what makes me awesome, you know.

What I mean, Like if I'm just being real, like it's like, I'm not going to do that. Like, so those experiences that I went through taught me in great detail how to be the best father and me that I can be. And I mean, I still ain't shit, you know what I'm saying. Like I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm floating on a rock, you know what I mean. But you know, I think I'm doing okay, and that makes me happy. It makes me happy that my kids love me, and I'm there for my wife and my.

What I mean, Like if I'm just being real, like it's like, I'm not going to do that. Like, so those experiences that I went through taught me in great detail how to be the best father and me that I can be. And I mean, I still ain't shit, you know what I'm saying. Like I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm floating on a rock, you know what I mean. But you know, I think I'm doing okay, and that makes me happy. It makes me happy that my kids love me, and I'm there for my wife and my.

Friends and a support system.

Friends and a support system.

I was talking to my homie yesterday, Man, I don't really get a lot of days for myself, so I've been trying to give myself a personal rest day just for me, and my homie was hanging out with me and I told him. I was like, man, I got so much on my plate. You know, I just filmed this movie. I'm gonna star in another movie. I got this album done, I'm working with Seth MacFarlane on another album. I just started this other album. My novel's about to drop. I got another one I'm working on. I'm writing this three scripts da all this sudden. I was like, man, it's just a lot. He was like, sounds self imposed, and like I knew that for a long time, but the way he said it to me it hit me in such a way where I was like, Oh, I am doing this to myself. I am kind of adding this stress and this weight to myself.

I was talking to my homie yesterday, Man, I don't really get a lot of days for myself, so I've been trying to give myself a personal rest day just for me, and my homie was hanging out with me and I told him. I was like, man, I got so much on my plate. You know, I just filmed this movie. I'm gonna star in another movie. I got this album done, I'm working with Seth MacFarlane on another album. I just started this other album. My novel's about to drop. I got another one I'm working on. I'm writing this three scripts da all this sudden. I was like, man, it's just a lot. He was like, sounds self imposed, and like I knew that for a long time, but the way he said it to me it hit me in such a way where I was like, Oh, I am doing this to myself. I am kind of adding this stress and this weight to myself.

And I like it. And I think the thing that I.

And I like it. And I think the thing that I.

Like about it stems from the fact that I never really had much to do as a child, or much to distract me, and so would I would fall into creativity and I would fall into work, and without question, I'm a workaholic.

Like about it stems from the fact that I never really had much to do as a child, or much to distract me, and so would I would fall into creativity and I would fall into work, and without question, I'm a workaholic.

I can't not work even on my off days.

I can't not work even on my off days.

Yesterday, you know, I was working on thirty pages of a new script at midnight, Like.

Yesterday, you know, I was working on thirty pages of a new script at midnight, Like.

I just just who I am.

I just just who I am.

And it all, I think stems from the fear of not wanting to be what the surroundings were when I was a child, you know what I mean. My parents didn't work, these people around me didn't do anything, and I didn't want to do that.

And it all, I think stems from the fear of not wanting to be what the surroundings were when I was a child, you know what I mean. My parents didn't work, these people around me didn't do anything, and I didn't want to do that.

I think the.

I think the.

Good part of it is although I am a workaholic, I know that I have a healthy relationship for the most part, and on most days with my work, you know, and I don't ignore my family or my children. And I have mandatory days weekends no matter what, just me and the family, no work, you know, date nights set every week for me and my wife to go out and you know, have some fun romance. And this shit is important. Man, it's crazy.

Good part of it is although I am a workaholic, I know that I have a healthy relationship for the most part, and on most days with my work, you know, and I don't ignore my family or my children. And I have mandatory days weekends no matter what, just me and the family, no work, you know, date nights set every week for me and my wife to go out and you know, have some fun romance. And this shit is important. Man, it's crazy.

Sorry, I know, I'm going off on a bit of a tangent. Dog.

Sorry, I know, I'm going off on a bit of a tangent. Dog.

Oh, it's such a What I so appreciate is there are people who, you know, let me ask the question. I'll come at it differently, which is how much of your identity is tied to your work. Do you have an identity separate from your work or are your work and your identity intertwined?

Oh, it's such a What I so appreciate is there are people who, you know, let me ask the question. I'll come at it differently, which is how much of your identity is tied to your work. Do you have an identity separate from your work or are your work and your identity intertwined?

Said deep ast question. My identity is separate from my work without question.

Said deep ast question. My identity is separate from my work without question.

And the reason I ask is a lot of workaholics there are identity is too intertwined with their work. Where they are strong, confident, good people so long as they're working hard, doing good work and having success. And if they aren't or they have a setback, they'll be defensive about the work. But really they're defending themselves.

And the reason I ask is a lot of workaholics there are identity is too intertwined with their work. Where they are strong, confident, good people so long as they're working hard, doing good work and having success. And if they aren't or they have a setback, they'll be defensive about the work. But really they're defending themselves.

No I'm not. I'm not that way.

No I'm not. I'm not that way.

Okay, my work it's weird, man, because it is a part of my identity, but it's not solely my identity.

Okay, my work it's weird, man, because it is a part of my identity, but it's not solely my identity.

Like I said, you.

Like I said, you.

Know, it's a health you have a healthy separation without questions. I would argue that my work is a reflection of my identity, but my value of myself is disconnected from my work. So I can have a serious work setback and I don't think of myself as a failure.

Know, it's a health you have a healthy separation without questions. I would argue that my work is a reflection of my identity, but my value of myself is disconnected from my work. So I can have a serious work setback and I don't think of myself as a failure.

I didn't do that until a couple of years ago, because you know, my work was.

I didn't do that until a couple of years ago, because you know, my work was.

My story, my life, my this, my that.

My story, my life, my this, my that.

So it's like if I put out an album then it received negatively or a song or people on the internet or whatever. That would affect my actual every day like you know, it would affect me and my sense of self worth or lack thereof, or feeling you know, regarding enough good enough, cool enough, black enough, this enough, that enough, like whatever, and it would really mess with my mind deeply. I was very depressed, and even through having my first child and through COVID like trying to discover and figure that out. And once I truly understood this sense of self love and appreciation for myself away from my work, Yeah, that's when I had it. So yeah, I think it's funny. I think it was that thing, but it's not anymore. So when you had said it, I was like, no, I don't feel that way. It's crazy and I feel very much so like yourself. I feel that my work is a reflection of me. I'm not a reflection of my work, and my work is the ethic behind it. You know, I'm like Edison a thousand times, however many times until that light goes off, like that's just who I am. Whether I'm playing a video game and I'm trying to beat the boss and I'll stay. I'll be there for eight hours or you know. I learned the Rubik's cube learn how to learn the rubs cube on Thanksgiving twenty and fourteen, and I locked myself in a room for sixteen hours, however long it was. It was like, I'm not leaving until I can solve the Rubis cube. And then I did it, you know, and.

So it's like if I put out an album then it received negatively or a song or people on the internet or whatever. That would affect my actual every day like you know, it would affect me and my sense of self worth or lack thereof, or feeling you know, regarding enough good enough, cool enough, black enough, this enough, that enough, like whatever, and it would really mess with my mind deeply. I was very depressed, and even through having my first child and through COVID like trying to discover and figure that out. And once I truly understood this sense of self love and appreciation for myself away from my work, Yeah, that's when I had it. So yeah, I think it's funny. I think it was that thing, but it's not anymore. So when you had said it, I was like, no, I don't feel that way. It's crazy and I feel very much so like yourself. I feel that my work is a reflection of me. I'm not a reflection of my work, and my work is the ethic behind it. You know, I'm like Edison a thousand times, however many times until that light goes off, like that's just who I am. Whether I'm playing a video game and I'm trying to beat the boss and I'll stay. I'll be there for eight hours or you know. I learned the Rubik's cube learn how to learn the rubs cube on Thanksgiving twenty and fourteen, and I locked myself in a room for sixteen hours, however long it was. It was like, I'm not leaving until I can solve the Rubis cube. And then I did it, you know, and.

Learned every single algorithm, every level, every step. Like that's who I am.

Learned every single algorithm, every level, every step. Like that's who I am.

What's funny, you know you come from to both your parents are addicts, and what's interesting is it seems like you have it in you. You know, they say addicts are children of addicts.

What's funny, you know you come from to both your parents are addicts, and what's interesting is it seems like you have it in you. You know, they say addicts are children of addicts.

You know, I am one thousand percent an addict.

You know, I am one thousand percent an addict.

And so you get addicted to the things you get addicted to. It sounds like are just healthier than crack low bar. I grant you, but.

And so you get addicted to the things you get addicted to. It sounds like are just healthier than crack low bar. I grant you, but.

That is a bar.

That is a bar.

Literally, that's a wrap there. Yeah, you just snap now for sure. Like you know, I was never into hard drugs anything like that. Even with alcohol, I've always like watched it almost over to the point. I remember talking to my therapist and I was like, she was like, you don't have that problem with alcohol.

Literally, that's a wrap there. Yeah, you just snap now for sure. Like you know, I was never into hard drugs anything like that. Even with alcohol, I've always like watched it almost over to the point. I remember talking to my therapist and I was like, she was like, you don't have that problem with alcohol.

You have a problem with alcohol. I was like what.

You have a problem with alcohol. I was like what.

She was like, you just overthink alcohol because of your parents. She was like, You're fine, and I was like, oh, like, you know, so that was a couple of years ago, and I've just like had all these thoughts regarding addiction and this and that, and my thing is I have to be doing something, you know, my heart. One of my hardest points was actually last year when I felt like I didn't have anywhere to put my creativeness and I was drinking a little more than I should because of that, you know, kind of definitely using alcohol as a form of self medication out to the point where I'm fucking drooling and falling all over the place or anything like that to really turn the voices in my head down because they never stop, you know, intrusive thoughts of creativity and.

She was like, you just overthink alcohol because of your parents. She was like, You're fine, and I was like, oh, like, you know, so that was a couple of years ago, and I've just like had all these thoughts regarding addiction and this and that, and my thing is I have to be doing something, you know, my heart. One of my hardest points was actually last year when I felt like I didn't have anywhere to put my creativeness and I was drinking a little more than I should because of that, you know, kind of definitely using alcohol as a form of self medication out to the point where I'm fucking drooling and falling all over the place or anything like that to really turn the voices in my head down because they never stop, you know, intrusive thoughts of creativity and.

Stuff like that.

Stuff like that.

But the question is, if you feel that you genuinely have no outlet, it feels as as though that those voices that are generally there to aid you have now kind of in many ways become a foe. And so, you know, I drink more than I should because I didn't know what was next for me. And then it hit me like, you know, I was trying to turn these voices down, trying to turn shit down because I didn't know what was next. And so if my mind is forever going, and it's usually thinking about like a scene or a lyric or a novel idea or this or that, now it's like it's my health, okay, like I'm chey, like health anxiety, and I'm overthinking that in my future and money and like oh no, like what if I just did this?

But the question is, if you feel that you genuinely have no outlet, it feels as as though that those voices that are generally there to aid you have now kind of in many ways become a foe. And so, you know, I drink more than I should because I didn't know what was next for me. And then it hit me like, you know, I was trying to turn these voices down, trying to turn shit down because I didn't know what was next. And so if my mind is forever going, and it's usually thinking about like a scene or a lyric or a novel idea or this or that, now it's like it's my health, okay, like I'm chey, like health anxiety, and I'm overthinking that in my future and money and like oh no, like what if I just did this?

What if I stop working? Is the money going to go away? Am I going to go away? You know?

What if I stop working? Is the money going to go away? Am I going to go away? You know?

I'm purposefully not making pop music anymore because that doesn't really make me happy. And when I reached the height of that pop mainstream success, I was left a bit empty.

I'm purposefully not making pop music anymore because that doesn't really make me happy. And when I reached the height of that pop mainstream success, I was left a bit empty.

What do I do now? And then it hit me one day that it's it's.

What do I do now? And then it hit me one day that it's it's.

Not just film, but it is film. Film is my true future. That's where I'm putting one hundred billion percent of like my energy towards. But it is music, it is novels. It is like I had to realize, like it doesn't have to just be one one thing. And I think finding your purpose is really important, but I had found mine so young that by the time I finally hit the goal and reached that goal of like essentially everything a musician could dream to attain.

Not just film, but it is film. Film is my true future. That's where I'm putting one hundred billion percent of like my energy towards. But it is music, it is novels. It is like I had to realize, like it doesn't have to just be one one thing. And I think finding your purpose is really important, but I had found mine so young that by the time I finally hit the goal and reached that goal of like essentially everything a musician could dream to attain.

There was nothing left.

There was nothing left.

You know, It's like Michael Phelps eight medals, like then what you know your body's not what it used to be? Then what you woke up every single day, jumped in a pool every day of your life and now you're in a desert?

You know, It's like Michael Phelps eight medals, like then what you know your body's not what it used to be? Then what you woke up every single day, jumped in a pool every day of your life and now you're in a desert?

What are you gonna do? You know what I mean?

What are you gonna do? You know what I mean?

And so that's where we talk about that sense of self worth and not equating that to your work. And when I realized that, I found myself much happier, which it's still a struggle every day.

And so that's where we talk about that sense of self worth and not equating that to your work. And when I realized that, I found myself much happier, which it's still a struggle every day.

I'm a human being.

I'm a human being.

You said something you talked about you know, I had my purpose until I achieved my goal. And if that's what you meant, that's a common misperception where people confuse purpose and goals. Like my purpose was to become a pop star. My purpose was to have a number one hit. My purpose was to win eight gold medals, become the most metaled Olympian of all time. But those aren't purposes. Those are simply goals. And you can't achieve a purpose. You can advance towards it, you can build upon it, you can live it. You can't achieve a purpose.

You said something you talked about you know, I had my purpose until I achieved my goal. And if that's what you meant, that's a common misperception where people confuse purpose and goals. Like my purpose was to become a pop star. My purpose was to have a number one hit. My purpose was to win eight gold medals, become the most metaled Olympian of all time. But those aren't purposes. Those are simply goals. And you can't achieve a purpose. You can advance towards it, you can build upon it, you can live it. You can't achieve a purpose.

Wow, that's exactly how I feel. Like that's what I had gone through. Yeah, you know what I mean. So I hear you on that. Yeah, that's right.

Wow, that's exactly how I feel. Like that's what I had gone through. Yeah, you know what I mean. So I hear you on that. Yeah, that's right.

I think that's where people get confused because you try lots of things looking for your purpose, or you set these goals thinking that you're living your purpose, and the two are easily confused because both require lots of energy and lots of passion. You know, like whether you want to be on Broadway or you want to be a singer, or you want to be an actor, or you want to go to law school, or you want to get it to Harvard or you know, like, you know whatever this outsized ambition is, and it feels like purpose because you make sacrifices for it, which you do when you're purposeful. You're fixat on it. You can see it, you can smell it. But the problem is it's achievable or worse or worse. And what if that is you confuse your goals and your ambitions with your purpose and you don't make it to Broadway and you don't become a multi platinum selling artists, then what my.

I think that's where people get confused because you try lots of things looking for your purpose, or you set these goals thinking that you're living your purpose, and the two are easily confused because both require lots of energy and lots of passion. You know, like whether you want to be on Broadway or you want to be a singer, or you want to be an actor, or you want to go to law school, or you want to get it to Harvard or you know, like, you know whatever this outsized ambition is, and it feels like purpose because you make sacrifices for it, which you do when you're purposeful. You're fixat on it. You can see it, you can smell it. But the problem is it's achievable or worse or worse. And what if that is you confuse your goals and your ambitions with your purpose and you don't make it to Broadway and you don't become a multi platinum selling artists, then what my.

Purpose is to create?

Purpose is to create?

That's really what it is to create to entertain, you know, to inspire. That's that's what it is because I've been inspired, taking my inspirations and wearing them on my sleeve. That's but it took a long say, it takes a long time, man, you know what I mean. Look, and I mean I've learned it young.

That's really what it is to create to entertain, you know, to inspire. That's that's what it is because I've been inspired, taking my inspirations and wearing them on my sleeve. That's but it took a long say, it takes a long time, man, you know what I mean. Look, and I mean I've learned it young.

Like I'm thirty four. That's another.

Like I'm thirty four. That's another.

So you're pretty much ahead of the game.

So you're pretty much ahead of the game.

Yeah, but it's like the game makes you think, like especially a hip hop game, and like mainstream media, it's like, oh, you're thirty four, you got wrinkles and your hairlines going a little bit, and.

Yeah, but it's like the game makes you think, like especially a hip hop game, and like mainstream media, it's like, oh, you're thirty four, you got wrinkles and your hairlines going a little bit, and.

Uh, that's it. Oh, that's it, that's over, you know what I mean.

Uh, that's it. Oh, that's it, that's over, you know what I mean.

So I had to make a switch of realizing, like I'm not making music for teeny boppers no more.

So I had to make a switch of realizing, like I'm not making music for teeny boppers no more.

You know what I mean. I'm not making music for kids. I'm not a kid anymore.

You know what I mean. I'm not making music for kids. I'm not a kid anymore.

It's like when I'm rapping on songs, I'm rapping about like doing your taxes and like, you know, being a successful person and like, you know what I mean, Like it's different when I was younger, albeit you know, very still positive and you know, in that lane, I was still you know, just rapping about young people's shit, you know and stuff, and so for me, yeah, my purpose is, my purpose is to create and write and spread a positive message. Like that's really, that's that's all it is, you know. And I think I thank you for this because like this is already off jump like a core memory, cause you kind of helped me be able to put it into words that I couldn't even explain, but I knew inherently and deep down in myself through a sense of a moment of self discovery, you know, say ten to eleven months ago, when I decided to fund my own film for a few million dollars and really dive into that which isn't out yet, but that.

It's like when I'm rapping on songs, I'm rapping about like doing your taxes and like, you know, being a successful person and like, you know what I mean, Like it's different when I was younger, albeit you know, very still positive and you know, in that lane, I was still you know, just rapping about young people's shit, you know and stuff, and so for me, yeah, my purpose is, my purpose is to create and write and spread a positive message. Like that's really, that's that's all it is, you know. And I think I thank you for this because like this is already off jump like a core memory, cause you kind of helped me be able to put it into words that I couldn't even explain, but I knew inherently and deep down in myself through a sense of a moment of self discovery, you know, say ten to eleven months ago, when I decided to fund my own film for a few million dollars and really dive into that which isn't out yet, but that.

You hold on, I want to push you, which is you went from conflating your purpose with a goal to conflating purpose with an activity. My purpose, you said, is to create and write and make inspiring stuff, right.

You hold on, I want to push you, which is you went from conflating your purpose with a goal to conflating purpose with an activity. My purpose, you said, is to create and write and make inspiring stuff, right.

Yeah, my creative purpose. Yeah as an artist, Yeah, my purpose is an artist to explain, Wait, so.

Yeah, my creative purpose. Yeah as an artist, Yeah, my purpose is an artist to explain, Wait, so.

What's the difference when your purpose as an artist versus your purpose as a person.

What's the difference when your purpose as an artist versus your purpose as a person.

Because I think my, I mean, my true purpose as a person is to just set a good positive example.

Because I think my, I mean, my true purpose as a person is to just set a good positive example.

But I think that but I think that I am.

But I think that but I think that I am.

I am an artist, Like it is my identity, like that that is a real thing, Like it's who I am. Like I'm not saying my work. There's a big difference, but like I'm an artist, you know what I mean. You look at and I'm not comparing myself saying you look at Da Vinci. That's not just a guy, you know what I mean. It's like that's Da Vinci, you know what I'm saying, or this or that or Prince or whatever.

I am an artist, Like it is my identity, like that that is a real thing, Like it's who I am. Like I'm not saying my work. There's a big difference, but like I'm an artist, you know what I mean. You look at and I'm not comparing myself saying you look at Da Vinci. That's not just a guy, you know what I mean. It's like that's Da Vinci, you know what I'm saying, or this or that or Prince or whatever.

It's like that's who they are. Like I am a writer.

It's like that's who they are. Like I am a writer.

Like if you take yeah, if you take writing and creativity away for me, I don't think I could.

Like if you take yeah, if you take writing and creativity away for me, I don't think I could.

They are there are a core to your identity.

They are there are a core to your identity.

Yeah, it's like the thing that is the most important in my life is my children and my.

Yeah, it's like the thing that is the most important in my life is my children and my.

Wife, Like that's the most important thing to me.

Wife, Like that's the most important thing to me.

But if you took away creativity and time for myself to be able to create my own worlds, I'd be no good to them because I wouldn't be happy. You know. It's like the mask at the bottom of the ocean or on an airplane, Like there has to be that thing that self selfishly gives me purpose, and to me, that's what it is. It's to create, you know, and as you said, a goal, man, that's really cool to be able to really differentiate between the two, you know. And and wow, thank you because it's really cool the way you put it, because I'm at this place in my life, this juncture where I'm like really trying to figure out a lot about myself in a good way, you know, and I'm doing I'm seeing it.

But if you took away creativity and time for myself to be able to create my own worlds, I'd be no good to them because I wouldn't be happy. You know. It's like the mask at the bottom of the ocean or on an airplane, Like there has to be that thing that self selfishly gives me purpose, and to me, that's what it is. It's to create, you know, and as you said, a goal, man, that's really cool to be able to really differentiate between the two, you know. And and wow, thank you because it's really cool the way you put it, because I'm at this place in my life, this juncture where I'm like really trying to figure out a lot about myself in a good way, you know, and I'm doing I'm seeing it.

I was really locked off for a long time of like.

I was really locked off for a long time of like.

Not knowing what was next. And I think those were goals because it's like, no matter what, the whole time, I'm still doing that thing, which is writing or creating, singing, rapping, acting, Like I love that, and the main key component there is a message.

Not knowing what was next. And I think those were goals because it's like, no matter what, the whole time, I'm still doing that thing, which is writing or creating, singing, rapping, acting, Like I love that, and the main key component there is a message.

We'll be right back. Tell me a project you've been a part of, something you've made, something you've written, something you've sung about a song. I don't care. It doesn't even have to have been commercially successful. And if all of your projects were like this one, you'd be the happiest person in a live.

We'll be right back. Tell me a project you've been a part of, something you've made, something you've written, something you've sung about a song. I don't care. It doesn't even have to have been commercially successful. And if all of your projects were like this one, you'd be the happiest person in a live.

Honestly, it would be the film I just made. I never felt anything like that in my life.

Honestly, it would be the film I just made. I never felt anything like that in my life.

It was the.

It was the.

Greatest experience ever because it wasn't just me in a room alone with four guys for ten months.

Greatest experience ever because it wasn't just me in a room alone with four guys for ten months.

It was me and eighty p.

It was me and eighty p.

And I'm at the head of this, and they're all kind, and they all understand the tone of the film and what we're trying to say and what we're trying to do make people laugh but also think and this and that. It was the craziest experience I was. I was scared and nervous because it was new and exciting, and yeah it was I mean, just to wake up every day and be surrounded by dozens and dozens of people all there for what I'm trying to do in from my head and they care was the craziest experience for me.

And I'm at the head of this, and they're all kind, and they all understand the tone of the film and what we're trying to say and what we're trying to do make people laugh but also think and this and that. It was the craziest experience I was. I was scared and nervous because it was new and exciting, and yeah it was I mean, just to wake up every day and be surrounded by dozens and dozens of people all there for what I'm trying to do in from my head and they care was the craziest experience for me.

On anything, over music, over everything.

On anything, over music, over everything.

So you've done some amazing things in your career. I mean the song you wrote about the suicide hotline that was remarkable and it had a massive and positive impact in the lives of people. And yet you choose to tell me about the film and not that song.

So you've done some amazing things in your career. I mean the song you wrote about the suicide hotline that was remarkable and it had a massive and positive impact in the lives of people. And yet you choose to tell me about the film and not that song.

What was it about that? That's that's selfish.

What was it about that? That's that's selfish.

You said, What's what's the greatest thing that I loved more than anything that I could do over and over and over again.

You said, What's what's the greatest thing that I loved more than anything that I could do over and over and over again.

Right right? But that's why what's been sic what specifically was it about making this film that was so different than all the other remarkable things that you've worked on.

Right right? But that's why what's been sic what specifically was it about making this film that was so different than all the other remarkable things that you've worked on.

I think the thing that was sorry for the Elon Musk pause, I think the thing that was.

I think the thing that was sorry for the Elon Musk pause, I think the thing that was.

It was different.

It was different.

It was like it was like letting me know that I don't have to just do that thing, and that even though I might make a bunch of money if I just did that thing over and.

It was like it was like letting me know that I don't have to just do that thing, and that even though I might make a bunch of money if I just did that thing over and.

Over and over again, it wasn't fulfilling.

Over and over again, it wasn't fulfilling.

And and to know that I was absolutely terrified, like every day, I mean, in millions and millions of my own dollars in this film, that if something went wrong, and a lot of things went wrong, but I made it work. But if something devastating happened, it's like this dream, this thing could not be there.

And and to know that I was absolutely terrified, like every day, I mean, in millions and millions of my own dollars in this film, that if something went wrong, and a lot of things went wrong, but I made it work. But if something devastating happened, it's like this dream, this thing could not be there.

So what was it is that it was? It was since I was.

So what was it is that it was? It was since I was.

A little boy making Jim Carrey faces in the mirror, wanting to star in a film, and this and that, and and then you get on set and you realize how like it just becomes so much less about the vanity of it.

A little boy making Jim Carrey faces in the mirror, wanting to star in a film, and this and that, and and then you get on set and you realize how like it just becomes so much less about the vanity of it.

It's weird.

It's weird.

It's like, WHOA, this is an ecosystem of something I've never been a part of, and deep in my heart and soul. Always knew I could crush and I'd go to auditions and they're like no.

It's like, WHOA, this is an ecosystem of something I've never been a part of, and deep in my heart and soul. Always knew I could crush and I'd go to auditions and they're like no.

And I'd go to auditions and they're like no.

And I'd go to auditions and they're like no.

And I'd go to studios and be like, check out this script and they're like eh. And I go over here and I'm like please, please, please, And then I sit down with Kevin Smith, and Kevin Smith was like just making yourself fuck them, just do it. And I'm like, easy for you to say, you know what i mean, He's like, just do it. I mean, it was a beautiful experience because it was unlike anything I'd ever done in my.

And I'd go to studios and be like, check out this script and they're like eh. And I go over here and I'm like please, please, please, And then I sit down with Kevin Smith, and Kevin Smith was like just making yourself fuck them, just do it. And I'm like, easy for you to say, you know what i mean, He's like, just do it. I mean, it was a beautiful experience because it was unlike anything I'd ever done in my.

Life, you know what I mean.

Life, you know what I mean.

I've made music since I was like eleven, you know what I mean, So stepping into this new space and seeing that I mean, don't get me wrong, the same with novels. You know, I can describe myself in a different way, but you know what it really is. I think what's so beautiful about the film is that there's so many messages in this film that I've talked about in my music for so many years. But it's crazy when you can show someone instead of telling them, and in my music, I've just been telling them. But with this film I was able to show them. And another thing that's crazy is, especially in today's day and age with how we consume media, there's people literally.

I've made music since I was like eleven, you know what I mean, So stepping into this new space and seeing that I mean, don't get me wrong, the same with novels. You know, I can describe myself in a different way, but you know what it really is. I think what's so beautiful about the film is that there's so many messages in this film that I've talked about in my music for so many years. But it's crazy when you can show someone instead of telling them, and in my music, I've just been telling them. But with this film I was able to show them. And another thing that's crazy is, especially in today's day and age with how we consume media, there's people literally.

On the Internet like, oh, I don't like Drake. I don't listen to Drake.

On the Internet like, oh, I don't like Drake. I don't listen to Drake.

That's just how they feel, like, no matter what Drake does, they're not even going to listen to it or pay attention because they have a predisposed notion of whatever it is that they just don't like this person. Pretty Much, everybody's going to watch a movie, Like if you're into a specific type of a genre of movie, even if you don't like Brad Pitt, but some crazy movie comes out that everybody's talking about, you'll watch it and guess what, Even if you don't like him and he crushes it, you'll be like, yeah, he did good.

That's just how they feel, like, no matter what Drake does, they're not even going to listen to it or pay attention because they have a predisposed notion of whatever it is that they just don't like this person. Pretty Much, everybody's going to watch a movie, Like if you're into a specific type of a genre of movie, even if you don't like Brad Pitt, but some crazy movie comes out that everybody's talking about, you'll watch it and guess what, Even if you don't like him and he crushes it, you'll be like, yeah, he did good.

He did it.

He did it.

Like it's a different space, and it's a visual space that I don't think I've ever been able to partake in.

Like it's a different space, and it's a visual space that I don't think I've ever been able to partake in.

And I'm glad I could.

And I'm glad I could.

Sorry, very long winded, but no, I'm on a journey of self discovery. So you're asking questions that are really making me think.

Sorry, very long winded, but no, I'm on a journey of self discovery. So you're asking questions that are really making me think.

Man, tell me in an early specific happy childhood memory, going on.

Man, tell me in an early specific happy childhood memory, going on.

An Easter egg hunt, with my mom. I was probably about three and a half.

An Easter egg hunt, with my mom. I was probably about three and a half.

Okay, what do you remember.

Okay, what do you remember.

I remember walking in this park by our apartment complex, picking up Easter eggs by a creak, and then getting a turtle. I found a turtle and she let me bring it home because I was like, I have to bring this turtle home. And then I put it out on the balcony and the next day was gone and I think it jumped off. But now later in my life I realized I went to sleep, my mom said I'm gonna get this turtle now hear.

I remember walking in this park by our apartment complex, picking up Easter eggs by a creak, and then getting a turtle. I found a turtle and she let me bring it home because I was like, I have to bring this turtle home. And then I put it out on the balcony and the next day was gone and I think it jumped off. But now later in my life I realized I went to sleep, my mom said I'm gonna get this turtle now hear.

Yeah, crazy, I know it.

Yeah, crazy, I know it.

You had a difficult childhood, but you know there was some happy moments. What was it about all of your memories that you think that this one stands out?

You had a difficult childhood, but you know there was some happy moments. What was it about all of your memories that you think that this one stands out?

I don't know. It's probably just more so the first one that came to mind.

I don't know. It's probably just more so the first one that came to mind.

You know, you said, give me a memory, and that that's one that popped out that was happy. Yeah, but there's not too many of those, if I'm being honest.

You know, you said, give me a memory, and that that's one that popped out that was happy. Yeah, but there's not too many of those, if I'm being honest.

But play with me here a little bit, So like, what is it about that memory that that is happy, that makes you smile? I mean, I'm sure there were other happy things that you've forgotten.

But play with me here a little bit, So like, what is it about that memory that that is happy, that makes you smile? I mean, I'm sure there were other happy things that you've forgotten.

Probably that for me personally. In that specific moment, there was no you know, screaming or yelling and money.

Probably that for me personally. In that specific moment, there was no you know, screaming or yelling and money.

Issues or this or that or blah blah blah blah blah.

Issues or this or that or blah blah blah blah blah.

It's the fact that it's it's it's that it was a happy memory because they're so little man, so it's just the fact that that other shit wasn't happening in this specific memory. You know, it was just me and my mom. Another one is being under a weeping willow with my mom and eating eating lunch, having a little picnic, which is crazy.

It's the fact that it's it's it's that it was a happy memory because they're so little man, so it's just the fact that that other shit wasn't happening in this specific memory. You know, it was just me and my mom. Another one is being under a weeping willow with my mom and eating eating lunch, having a little picnic, which is crazy.

I remember that.

I remember that.

Yeah, just by this lake in Montgomery Village on the way to Germantown in Maryland. But that's it, Like I have snapshots. I don't have like complete like and then we did this and went here like that doesn't exist.

Yeah, just by this lake in Montgomery Village on the way to Germantown in Maryland. But that's it, Like I have snapshots. I don't have like complete like and then we did this and went here like that doesn't exist.

Yeah, so interesting. So now tell me a memory, a very clear memory that I can relive with you as if we were telling as if I'm reliving a movie with you. Come up with a particularly difficult one.

Yeah, so interesting. So now tell me a memory, a very clear memory that I can relive with you as if we were telling as if I'm reliving a movie with you. Come up with a particularly difficult one.

Oh, here's a good one.

Oh, here's a good one.

So when I was about four and a half, almost five, there was this these two kids, these these like little white kids that lived in the neighborhood, and they never wore shoes, which I thought was weird.

So when I was about four and a half, almost five, there was this these two kids, these these like little white kids that lived in the neighborhood, and they never wore shoes, which I thought was weird.

So this is actually going to go deep.

So this is actually going to go deep.

So they never wore shoes, and they'd always walk outside without shoes, and they would always try to convince me to take my shoes off, and I was like, no, I don't want to take off my shoes. Then there was this one day they were like, hey, Bob, we have a cigaret. Go ask your mom for a lighter. And I was like what, and they're like, yeah, tell your mom our mom needs a lighter because we told our mom your mom needs a cigarette.

So they never wore shoes, and they'd always walk outside without shoes, and they would always try to convince me to take my shoes off, and I was like, no, I don't want to take off my shoes. Then there was this one day they were like, hey, Bob, we have a cigaret. Go ask your mom for a lighter. And I was like what, and they're like, yeah, tell your mom our mom needs a lighter because we told our mom your mom needs a cigarette.

And I was like okay. So I was like okay, so I get it.

And I was like okay. So I was like okay, so I get it.

And then we end up walking like through this these woods near the back of our apartment complex and we have to go through these thorn bushes and they end up crying and they start crying and they're crying because they don't have any shoes on, and me, I'm just like, fucking told you man, you know what I mean, Like, don't be walking outside with no shoes. And then we make it to this specific space with this other kid Ian and they start smoking the cigarette in the bush. Ian doesn't want to do it. He's like cartman, like I'm going home. So he goes home and they're like, come on, Bobby, do it, man, just do it. So I take a puff and he's like, no, you got to inhale it. And I'm like, bro, we're five years old. What do you know about this?

And then we end up walking like through this these woods near the back of our apartment complex and we have to go through these thorn bushes and they end up crying and they start crying and they're crying because they don't have any shoes on, and me, I'm just like, fucking told you man, you know what I mean, Like, don't be walking outside with no shoes. And then we make it to this specific space with this other kid Ian and they start smoking the cigarette in the bush. Ian doesn't want to do it. He's like cartman, like I'm going home. So he goes home and they're like, come on, Bobby, do it, man, just do it. So I take a puff and he's like, no, you got to inhale it. And I'm like, bro, we're five years old. What do you know about this?

Right? So I'm like, okay, I do that. It's so disgusting.

Right? So I'm like, okay, I do that. It's so disgusting.

Ian's mom tells all of our parents. My mom sits me down. She's like, I can't believe you were smoking.

Ian's mom tells all of our parents. My mom sits me down. She's like, I can't believe you were smoking.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Right, this is a good memory. And so she sits me down with my stepfather who actually was killed by the police in prison or the guard's long story short whatever, that's a different situation, and he sits down. His name was Tony Bransford. Has these big ass fucking hands like cinder blocks. Right. He was French and black, so mixed guy, very very brown skinned, chocolate fellow. And he's had his voice to him, you know what I mean. She was like, you know what, Bobby, So you know that I'm not messing around. Tony's gonna take you in your room and give you a whooping. Don't you ever do this again.

Right, this is a good memory. And so she sits me down with my stepfather who actually was killed by the police in prison or the guard's long story short whatever, that's a different situation, and he sits down. His name was Tony Bransford. Has these big ass fucking hands like cinder blocks. Right. He was French and black, so mixed guy, very very brown skinned, chocolate fellow. And he's had his voice to him, you know what I mean. She was like, you know what, Bobby, So you know that I'm not messing around. Tony's gonna take you in your room and give you a whooping. Don't you ever do this again.

So he takes me into the room and I'm crying already. I'm terrified. You know.

So he takes me into the room and I'm crying already. I'm terrified. You know.

This guy is like the Kingpin from Spider Man. Like I'm like freaked out right.

This guy is like the Kingpin from Spider Man. Like I'm like freaked out right.

And he comes in. He goes, damn it, Bobby, and he slams the door and he turns around and he.

And he comes in. He goes, damn it, Bobby, and he slams the door and he turns around and he.

Goes, Listen, when I was your age, my dad he used to beat up my brothers and sisters mom, and he would beat me up really really bad.

Goes, Listen, when I was your age, my dad he used to beat up my brothers and sisters mom, and he would beat me up really really bad.

Now always promised that I'd never put my his own child.

Now always promised that I'd never put my his own child.

And I was like okay, and he goes, but we gotta make your mom think I'm kicking your ass in here, okay, and he goes, so it so just pretend like I'm beating you.

And I was like okay, and he goes, but we gotta make your mom think I'm kicking your ass in here, okay, and he goes, so it so just pretend like I'm beating you.

So he's clapping and I'm.

So he's clapping and I'm.

Like, oh, sit, Tony, no stop, and he goes, good job, good job, Tony.

Like, oh, sit, Tony, no stop, and he goes, good job, good job, Tony.

No please no oh, and he.

No please no oh, and he.

Goes, Okay, that's good, all right, and then he leaves and I'm still in there and I'm like, oh oh.

Goes, Okay, that's good, all right, and then he leaves and I'm still in there and I'm like, oh oh.

And he comes in and he goes shut out and shut the hell up. I can't be in here kicking your ass and out there at the same time. And I was like, oh okay. And it was one of the sweetest things that anybody's ever done for me.

And he comes in and he goes shut out and shut the hell up. I can't be in here kicking your ass and out there at the same time. And I was like, oh okay. And it was one of the sweetest things that anybody's ever done for me.

That's beautiful. So what I find really interesting is you use the word terrified to describe the film. You use the word terrified to describe what you're going into with Tony. And both the sitting under the willow and and going egg hunting are not really fully complete memories. They are these little snapshots. But the only thing that the snapshots give you value is is there were moments when when life was okay, there was an interruption. You said, to the screaming, the yelling, the violence, And so I wonder if you know that this idea of facing terror and not in an aggressive way, but finding a way around and through it is part of this that you have a weird relationship with terror. The experience you have with Tony is not dissimilar to the experience you have on the film, which is absolute terror, but thanks to someone else, thanks to the guidance and support and advice of other people. Because you said that, you said, the best thing about the film is it wasn't just me, it was all these people will help help me get through this. Yeah, And to some degree, you've a little bit become Tony, which is you are sort of helping people face their fears in a way that they didn't expect. Like they're they're standing there petrified, and you're like, no, no no no no, no, no no no, I'm going to get you through this. And you look at some of your work, it kind of does that. It's kind of a helping hand, you're I just find that interesting.