And yesterday in Parliament, the Independent Member for Johnston, Justine Davis, presented a letter signed by a number of frontline workers opposed to the government's mandatory sentencing for assaults. The letter, signed by mostly health professionals and teachers, says that they deserve to feel safe at work and ought to be consulted about how best to achieve that. It goes on to say that they don't feel safe under the new laws and they feel that they conflict with ethics in their professions. Now joining me on the show is the Independent Member for Johnston, Justine Davis. Good morning to you.

And yesterday in Parliament, the Independent Member for Johnston, Justine Davis, presented a letter signed by a number of frontline workers opposed to the government's mandatory sentencing for assaults. The letter, signed by mostly health professionals and teachers, says that they deserve to feel safe at work and ought to be consulted about how best to achieve that. It goes on to say that they don't feel safe under the new laws and they feel that they conflict with ethics in their professions. Now joining me on the show is the Independent Member for Johnston, Justine Davis. Good morning to you.

Hey, Katie, how are you going?

Hey, Katie, how are you going?

Yeah, really good, Thank you for your time this morning. Now, Justine, why are these frontline workers opposed to the mandatory sentencing which was introduced.

Yeah, really good, Thank you for your time this morning. Now, Justine, why are these frontline workers opposed to the mandatory sentencing which was introduced.

I think he just outlined it really well. First of all, they weren't consulting in the development of the law and they're the people who are going to be it's going to be impacting on most of all. Secondly, what they say is that actually puts them in a really difficult called ethical position and they feel like it makes them less safe because they feel like they can no longer report people to the police, because these are people who should not be going to prison, their people who have complex, vulnerable health needs and there but if they do report them, the judge will have no choice but to sentence them. So they're caught in a bind. So they're saying this, this is not working for us. We all know frontline workers, you know, do so much for all of us every single day and every single night. They deserve to feel safe and we should be listening to them.

I think he just outlined it really well. First of all, they weren't consulting in the development of the law and they're the people who are going to be it's going to be impacting on most of all. Secondly, what they say is that actually puts them in a really difficult called ethical position and they feel like it makes them less safe because they feel like they can no longer report people to the police, because these are people who should not be going to prison, their people who have complex, vulnerable health needs and there but if they do report them, the judge will have no choice but to sentence them. So they're caught in a bind. So they're saying this, this is not working for us. We all know frontline workers, you know, do so much for all of us every single day and every single night. They deserve to feel safe and we should be listening to them.

Justine, I understand what you know, those health stuff and others are saying, But what do you say to the police officers and the police union that really pushed for this. You know, they are facing almost daily assaults on them. Last week, I think it was we're in a situation, or it maybe in the week before in Alice Springs where a police officer had somebody trying to drive at them in a car. What do you say to those frontline workers.

Justine, I understand what you know, those health stuff and others are saying, But what do you say to the police officers and the police union that really pushed for this. You know, they are facing almost daily assaults on them. Last week, I think it was we're in a situation, or it maybe in the week before in Alice Springs where a police officer had somebody trying to drive at them in a car. What do you say to those frontline workers.

Yeah, I think that's shocking. I think it should not be happening. I think we absolutely need to do everything we can to address that and stop it happening. But the evidence is very clear that mandatory sentencing will not do that. The government's own report says the law commissioned report says Managery CENTERCING does not do that. It's very clear there's no evidence, if I'm quoting from that, there is no evidence whatsoever to support the premise that Managery CENTERCING will act as a deterrent and reduce crime.

Yeah, I think that's shocking. I think it should not be happening. I think we absolutely need to do everything we can to address that and stop it happening. But the evidence is very clear that mandatory sentencing will not do that. The government's own report says the law commissioned report says Managery CENTERCING does not do that. It's very clear there's no evidence, if I'm quoting from that, there is no evidence whatsoever to support the premise that Managery CENTERCING will act as a deterrent and reduce crime.

So you reckon just for our listeners, because there's already people messaging in about this. What do you think should happen? For example, you know, what do you think the punishment or the consequence to somebody should be if they drive a vehicle at a police officer.

So you reckon just for our listeners, because there's already people messaging in about this. What do you think should happen? For example, you know, what do you think the punishment or the consequence to somebody should be if they drive a vehicle at a police officer.

Well, I think they should face obviously the full force of the law. But I think what we need to be looking at, and the theop government has been saying is we need to look at what the drivers are drivers, So that's a bad pun when you talk about a car, but we need to look at look at what it is that's causing those things to happen, and dress them and stop them before they're happening. That's where we need to be investing, or we're just going to be seeing to get worse and worse and worse. We've had there's six hundred more people in prison at the moment, and the prison system is under such crisis. We can't keep just shoving people in there and expecting that that's going to create change and give us a safer community. So we need to be we need to be in answer to in answer to your question, we need to be investing in what's going to actually make people safe, and that's in addressing what the causes of these crimes are.

Well, I think they should face obviously the full force of the law. But I think what we need to be looking at, and the theop government has been saying is we need to look at what the drivers are drivers, So that's a bad pun when you talk about a car, but we need to look at look at what it is that's causing those things to happen, and dress them and stop them before they're happening. That's where we need to be investing, or we're just going to be seeing to get worse and worse and worse. We've had there's six hundred more people in prison at the moment, and the prison system is under such crisis. We can't keep just shoving people in there and expecting that that's going to create change and give us a safer community. So we need to be we need to be in answer to in answer to your question, we need to be investing in what's going to actually make people safe, and that's in addressing what the causes of these crimes are.

So justine if look, people are going to be really fired up about this. So I'm trying to think of the best way to ask it. But you know, if somebody is put in an incredibly dangerous situation, the one that always springs to mind for me is the police. And I understand that there are a lot of other frontline workers and I'll go more into that in the moment, but with our police, for example, some of the saults we are seeing against them are pretty horrendous, you know, like the example that I gave obviously of that vehicle being driven at somebody. We're in a situation in Alice Springs towards the end of last year where two well actually there was a group of police officers who were off duty walking home, so a little bit of a different scenario, but you know, one of those young female officers assaulted really quite badly. It is happening like it's happening very often. So in terms of the investment, in terms of stopping that before it happens, like, what do we do a program? What are you suggesting?

So justine if look, people are going to be really fired up about this. So I'm trying to think of the best way to ask it. But you know, if somebody is put in an incredibly dangerous situation, the one that always springs to mind for me is the police. And I understand that there are a lot of other frontline workers and I'll go more into that in the moment, but with our police, for example, some of the saults we are seeing against them are pretty horrendous, you know, like the example that I gave obviously of that vehicle being driven at somebody. We're in a situation in Alice Springs towards the end of last year where two well actually there was a group of police officers who were off duty walking home, so a little bit of a different scenario, but you know, one of those young female officers assaulted really quite badly. It is happening like it's happening very often. So in terms of the investment, in terms of stopping that before it happens, like, what do we do a program? What are you suggesting?

I think, yeah, there are lots of things we can do before it happens. The other thing I just want to say is that the courts, it's not like these people are just walking for you at the moment. The judges make a decision about what the best sentence is, what their appropriate sentence is going to be for someone. And what mandatory centerces does is it takes that away from the judges. It's like people in parliament, people like me who do not have training to be making this decision. We're saying this is how you need to sentence someone, rather than judges who have years and years of training and experience in making in making that decision. So the argument against the argument that the frontline workers are making is not that people know people should go to prison. It's not that people shouldn't face consequences and be accountable for what's happened. It's that mandatory sentencing will not achieve what this bill was designed to achieve, and they give examples of people, I mean who you know, maybe for example, not able to because of a psychiatric situation, may not be in control of the situation what they're doing. They will have to go to prison. And it's not going to address what happened. It's not going to make people safer, and it's not going to make the frontline workers any safer.

I think, yeah, there are lots of things we can do before it happens. The other thing I just want to say is that the courts, it's not like these people are just walking for you at the moment. The judges make a decision about what the best sentence is, what their appropriate sentence is going to be for someone. And what mandatory centerces does is it takes that away from the judges. It's like people in parliament, people like me who do not have training to be making this decision. We're saying this is how you need to sentence someone, rather than judges who have years and years of training and experience in making in making that decision. So the argument against the argument that the frontline workers are making is not that people know people should go to prison. It's not that people shouldn't face consequences and be accountable for what's happened. It's that mandatory sentencing will not achieve what this bill was designed to achieve, and they give examples of people, I mean who you know, maybe for example, not able to because of a psychiatric situation, may not be in control of the situation what they're doing. They will have to go to prison. And it's not going to address what happened. It's not going to make people safer, and it's not going to make the frontline workers any safer.

Justine, how many people have signed that letter?

Justine, how many people have signed that letter?

Yeah, there's one hundred and seventy and as you said, it's a very wide group of people. So doctors, social workers, I'm just looking at the listen now, nurses, to get therapists, psychiatrists, mental health clinicians, pediatricians, teachers, I said, original health worker. Let yet, so it's a lot a long list. I know you've got a copy of it there.

Yeah, there's one hundred and seventy and as you said, it's a very wide group of people. So doctors, social workers, I'm just looking at the listen now, nurses, to get therapists, psychiatrists, mental health clinicians, pediatricians, teachers, I said, original health worker. Let yet, so it's a lot a long list. I know you've got a copy of it there.

Yeah, see as well, and I will read that out for our listeners throughout the morning. Have you spoken to the police as well and do your plan to Yeah?

Yeah, see as well, and I will read that out for our listeners throughout the morning. Have you spoken to the police as well and do your plan to Yeah?

Look, I frequently talked to the police, and I have talked to many police who've contacted me with a wide range of concerns. And you know, I want to also say, just like frontline work, there's police are doing an incredibly tough job on behalf of all of us, and you know we need to do what we can to support them to be safe as well.

Look, I frequently talked to the police, and I have talked to many police who've contacted me with a wide range of concerns. And you know, I want to also say, just like frontline work, there's police are doing an incredibly tough job on behalf of all of us, and you know we need to do what we can to support them to be safe as well.

Yeah. Look, I guess for me, I've been on this show for quite a long period of time, and they were literally screaming for help. You know, they were saying, we cannot continue on the way that we are. We are in dangerous situations every single day.

Yeah. Look, I guess for me, I've been on this show for quite a long period of time, and they were literally screaming for help. You know, they were saying, we cannot continue on the way that we are. We are in dangerous situations every single day.

Yeah. Yeah, and no argue. I have no argument with that, Katie. I don't think that's what this is about. I don't think we're saying that we need to put police or anyone who's working on the front line in any more danger. I think we need to keep them safe, and I think we need to make sure that people are accountable for their actions and then we do something to address it and make sure that it doesn't happen again.

Yeah. Yeah, and no argue. I have no argument with that, Katie. I don't think that's what this is about. I don't think we're saying that we need to put police or anyone who's working on the front line in any more danger. I think we need to keep them safe, and I think we need to make sure that people are accountable for their actions and then we do something to address it and make sure that it doesn't happen again.

All right, Justine, I want to ask you about a emotion that you had planned, as I understand it, to table yesterday in Parliament around the Indigenous Employment provisional some fraud scandal. Did that happen yesterday or did it get pushed back?

All right, Justine, I want to ask you about a emotion that you had planned, as I understand it, to table yesterday in Parliament around the Indigenous Employment provisional some fraud scandal. Did that happen yesterday or did it get pushed back?

It didn't happen. So for people who a new deparliament, like I am. The way it works is that there's four hours every week that non government members can bring things to the floor, So that's both the Opposition and the cross Bench on Wednesday afternoons and emotions that we put up on a list and we get to them as we get to them. You didn't get to that motion, yes, Safin, I thought we would, but we didn't. It will come up in the next sitting of Parliament. And for people who don't know what that's about. The Indigenous Employment Provisional some with a scheme set up to support Aboriginal people in the working in the construction industry we set out by the Coop implement by by Labor closed down because there were allegations of extremely significant fraud investigated by the Order to General. What we have heard is that there's at least sixty million dollars that has been basically stolen from that scheme by private enterprise, money that should have been going to original people, money that belongs to us as taxpayers. So I've put up a motion saying we need to actually investigate this, we need to find out what's happened and we need to get that money back for antique, for our anti taxpayers.

It didn't happen. So for people who a new deparliament, like I am. The way it works is that there's four hours every week that non government members can bring things to the floor, So that's both the Opposition and the cross Bench on Wednesday afternoons and emotions that we put up on a list and we get to them as we get to them. You didn't get to that motion, yes, Safin, I thought we would, but we didn't. It will come up in the next sitting of Parliament. And for people who don't know what that's about. The Indigenous Employment Provisional some with a scheme set up to support Aboriginal people in the working in the construction industry we set out by the Coop implement by by Labor closed down because there were allegations of extremely significant fraud investigated by the Order to General. What we have heard is that there's at least sixty million dollars that has been basically stolen from that scheme by private enterprise, money that should have been going to original people, money that belongs to us as taxpayers. So I've put up a motion saying we need to actually investigate this, we need to find out what's happened and we need to get that money back for antique, for our anti taxpayers.

So Justin, has it been pushed now? So next parliamentary sittings do you reckon it'll get up? What do you think will happen?

So Justin, has it been pushed now? So next parliamentary sittings do you reckon it'll get up? What do you think will happen?

Well, I can't see any reason why people shouldn't support it. It's just like, actually, this is this is this is our money. We need to be looking at what happened with it. So there's no My hope is that they support it. There's time, you know, for the government to have a look at it now and see whether or not it's something that they want to support. But I'd be curious if anyone voted against emotion that's aimed at, you know, a scrutiny accountability and getting back money that actually belongs to all of us.

Well, I can't see any reason why people shouldn't support it. It's just like, actually, this is this is this is our money. We need to be looking at what happened with it. So there's no My hope is that they support it. There's time, you know, for the government to have a look at it now and see whether or not it's something that they want to support. But I'd be curious if anyone voted against emotion that's aimed at, you know, a scrutiny accountability and getting back money that actually belongs to all of us.

Well, Justine, I always appreciate your time. What else is on the agenda today? Anything I should know about?

Well, Justine, I always appreciate your time. What else is on the agenda today? Anything I should know about?

Big Day today? There's an energy statement from Minister Maine this morning. We're voting on a couple of bills. One defamation bill to bring our laws in line with the rest of Australia. A bill a police a bill to change some of the sorry police's right to enter property. There's going to be what's called a matter of public importance on public education. So there's going to be a lot's happening, probably going to be a long night again.

Big Day today? There's an energy statement from Minister Maine this morning. We're voting on a couple of bills. One defamation bill to bring our laws in line with the rest of Australia. A bill a police a bill to change some of the sorry police's right to enter property. There's going to be what's called a matter of public importance on public education. So there's going to be a lot's happening, probably going to be a long night again.

It will be a busy one, no doubt about it. Justine, I always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for joining us on the show this morning.

It will be a busy one, no doubt about it. Justine, I always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for joining us on the show this morning.

Thanks Katie, I have a great Dame you too.

Thanks Katie, I have a great Dame you too.

Thank you

Thank you