Kakado tourism operator is calling on the federal Environment Minister to do more to address side access in the popular tourist park, claiming it's becoming almost impossible to organize itineries for visitors and some places only accessible for a few months of the year. Now, this is something that's been raised with me previously, and Greg Taylor from Charter Northern Kakadoo Four Wheel Drive Safaris joins me on the line.

Kakado tourism operator is calling on the federal Environment Minister to do more to address side access in the popular tourist park, claiming it's becoming almost impossible to organize itineries for visitors and some places only accessible for a few months of the year. Now, this is something that's been raised with me previously, and Greg Taylor from Charter Northern Kakadoo Four Wheel Drive Safaris joins me on the line.

Get a Greg, get a Katie here going.

Get a Greg, get a Katie here going.

Good mate, Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now I understand welcome. You've been operating in Kackadoo for decades and you've noticed a huge drop in visitation. Can you talk us through some of the numbers?

Good mate, Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now I understand welcome. You've been operating in Kackadoo for decades and you've noticed a huge drop in visitation. Can you talk us through some of the numbers?

Yeah, I can, Katie. And look, I'm not alone in this. There's I'm really just echoing the sentiments of other operators. But we've had ongoing issues regarding access to sites for you know, probably a couple of decades now. And look, it's my estimate, even though we don't get any data from Kakadou in regards to visit a numbers, but it would be my estimate that you know, we're probably sitting around about one hundred and sixty thousand genuine visitors to the park annually now and that's you know, from nineteen ninety eight we were around you know, two hundred and fifty thousand, So you know, and this hasn't come about, you know, by pure accident. This is this is genuinely connected to how the Kakadu profile has been damaged both domestically and internationally in the way that it's being rung. And you know, my call out to the Minister is is is it's a desperate call out again on behalf of other operators because we're not seeing any action on this. And so what we've got is we've got a we've got a management structure that's divided between Canberra and Kakadu if you like. So we've got a border management placed in Kakadu that are pretty much calling the shots on this and they're acting independently, whereas this is a joint management structure. So we're calling on the other half of that management structure through the Minister to to you know, bring in some management reform to try and resolve these issues. And as a tour industry, we're completely alienated from the park. Kakadu doesn't Kakadu doesn't engage the tourism industry at all, and so what we're wanting, and we've been trying for years, we want to establish a partnership with kakados so that we can work together on the tourism in the park. We understand that, you know, and we've been told for years tourism is not the boss of Kakadu. We accept that, We understand that, but there's only a very very small percentage of the park that was ever set aside for tourism anyway. So we want to work with Kakadu and we've been calling this this for years in growing that tourism and there's provisions within the current Tourism Management Plan and also the current General Tourism Management Plan for the growth and the supporting of tourism within the park, and we're not seeing any of that carried out. We're not seeing any results. It's quite negative from.

Yeah, I can, Katie. And look, I'm not alone in this. There's I'm really just echoing the sentiments of other operators. But we've had ongoing issues regarding access to sites for you know, probably a couple of decades now. And look, it's my estimate, even though we don't get any data from Kakadou in regards to visit a numbers, but it would be my estimate that you know, we're probably sitting around about one hundred and sixty thousand genuine visitors to the park annually now and that's you know, from nineteen ninety eight we were around you know, two hundred and fifty thousand, So you know, and this hasn't come about, you know, by pure accident. This is this is genuinely connected to how the Kakadu profile has been damaged both domestically and internationally in the way that it's being rung. And you know, my call out to the Minister is is is it's a desperate call out again on behalf of other operators because we're not seeing any action on this. And so what we've got is we've got a we've got a management structure that's divided between Canberra and Kakadu if you like. So we've got a border management placed in Kakadu that are pretty much calling the shots on this and they're acting independently, whereas this is a joint management structure. So we're calling on the other half of that management structure through the Minister to to you know, bring in some management reform to try and resolve these issues. And as a tour industry, we're completely alienated from the park. Kakadu doesn't Kakadu doesn't engage the tourism industry at all, and so what we're wanting, and we've been trying for years, we want to establish a partnership with kakados so that we can work together on the tourism in the park. We understand that, you know, and we've been told for years tourism is not the boss of Kakadu. We accept that, We understand that, but there's only a very very small percentage of the park that was ever set aside for tourism anyway. So we want to work with Kakadu and we've been calling this this for years in growing that tourism and there's provisions within the current Tourism Management Plan and also the current General Tourism Management Plan for the growth and the supporting of tourism within the park, and we're not seeing any of that carried out. We're not seeing any results. It's quite negative from.

Your perspective, Like what is the main issue here? Is it access? Like are you're no longer able to access areas that you ordinarily would be able to for certain periods of time? What's sort of deteriorated over the years.

Your perspective, Like what is the main issue here? Is it access? Like are you're no longer able to access areas that you ordinarily would be able to for certain periods of time? What's sort of deteriorated over the years.

Yeah, it's purely access Katie. And again, you know, we're not really sure how much Kakadu actually understands how tourism works and the consequences of their current actions. But we've lost access to key sites in the dry season for a longer period. So I'll just give you some examples. We used to get mcgook in May. We now don't get mcgook until June. We used to get gim Jim and Twin Falls in June or even yet probably early June. We now don't get that until late June. In fact, sometimes we don't even get the first week of the school holiday access to Ginger and Twin Falls. And they're just a couple of examples. But we're also seeing closures of wet season sites as well, so sites that we relied on to be able to carry our business through the wet season. So yeah, it's a real site access issue.

Yeah, it's purely access Katie. And again, you know, we're not really sure how much Kakadu actually understands how tourism works and the consequences of their current actions. But we've lost access to key sites in the dry season for a longer period. So I'll just give you some examples. We used to get mcgook in May. We now don't get mcgook until June. We used to get gim Jim and Twin Falls in June or even yet probably early June. We now don't get that until late June. In fact, sometimes we don't even get the first week of the school holiday access to Ginger and Twin Falls. And they're just a couple of examples. But we're also seeing closures of wet season sites as well, so sites that we relied on to be able to carry our business through the wet season. So yeah, it's a real site access issue.

And what do people like you know then, when you have visitors arrive, And with some of these visitors, I would imagine that they're international when they arrive and they you know, they're maybe thinking and you you know, like you're thinking as well at certain times that you're going to be able to book them in to do various different things and then some of the access changes. What do people say, what's their reaction?

And what do people like you know then, when you have visitors arrive, And with some of these visitors, I would imagine that they're international when they arrive and they you know, they're maybe thinking and you you know, like you're thinking as well at certain times that you're going to be able to book them in to do various different things and then some of the access changes. What do people say, what's their reaction?

Well, i'll tell you the latest reaction from a group that I had out there last week. They're demanding a partial refund because we rocked up at a site in southern Kakadu that was clearly listed on the Kakadu Access site as being open, and we got there and only to be confronted by closed signs. So we drove an hour and a half through the park to get to this site and that was the key site for the day and it was closed as opposed to how how you know what it looked on the on the on the access loot?

Well, i'll tell you the latest reaction from a group that I had out there last week. They're demanding a partial refund because we rocked up at a site in southern Kakadu that was clearly listed on the Kakadu Access site as being open, and we got there and only to be confronted by closed signs. So we drove an hour and a half through the park to get to this site and that was the key site for the day and it was closed as opposed to how how you know what it looked on the on the on the access loot?

Is that pretty devastating for you?

Is that pretty devastating for you?

Then it's hugely devastating because one of the one of the big things about tourism is managing people's expectations and actually building people's expectations. So it's got really difficult in that, you know, we can hardly even guarantee itineries anymore. So we're losing bookings as a result of that because we can't guarantee what people are going to say. And what we've got now is we've got a problem and this is the second time this has happened to me personally where I've arrived at a site that was supposedly open and it's been closed. So it's a really really difficult thing. And as a as a tour operator, we're being held responsible because the clients really don't understand the politics behind this, all the mechanisms behind this.

Then it's hugely devastating because one of the one of the big things about tourism is managing people's expectations and actually building people's expectations. So it's got really difficult in that, you know, we can hardly even guarantee itineries anymore. So we're losing bookings as a result of that because we can't guarantee what people are going to say. And what we've got now is we've got a problem and this is the second time this has happened to me personally where I've arrived at a site that was supposedly open and it's been closed. So it's a really really difficult thing. And as a as a tour operator, we're being held responsible because the clients really don't understand the politics behind this, all the mechanisms behind this.

And Gregor, it must make you scrite your head and think, how am I meant to run this business?

And Gregor, it must make you scrite your head and think, how am I meant to run this business?

Well, Katie here that that's the problem that operators are facing. But you know, on a on a in a broader picture, this is really impacting top end tourism the Northern Territory tourism our. Two key sites for Northern Territory tourism, as everyone knows, is Ularu and Kakadou. Ularu at the moment is a far better option because it's closer to markets and it's accessible. When you look at the cost of getting here and the challenges of getting into Darwin, and if there's no guarantee that you're going to be able to visit Kakadoo as you wish, we are losing. We are losing tens of thousands of visitors into the top end every year. So it's it's not just you know, this micro issue for operators like ourselves, it's also for locals and also you know, look there's a lot of revenue that's being lost through the park. So the park, you know, it's a Commonwealth reserve, it's it's almost entirely reliant on taxpayer money. However, the visitation to the park is supposed to generate a certain amount of revenue to assist the management of the park. The park is losing revenue through losings visitation. So this is a really really complex issue.

Well, Katie here that that's the problem that operators are facing. But you know, on a on a in a broader picture, this is really impacting top end tourism the Northern Territory tourism our. Two key sites for Northern Territory tourism, as everyone knows, is Ularu and Kakadou. Ularu at the moment is a far better option because it's closer to markets and it's accessible. When you look at the cost of getting here and the challenges of getting into Darwin, and if there's no guarantee that you're going to be able to visit Kakadoo as you wish, we are losing. We are losing tens of thousands of visitors into the top end every year. So it's it's not just you know, this micro issue for operators like ourselves, it's also for locals and also you know, look there's a lot of revenue that's being lost through the park. So the park, you know, it's a Commonwealth reserve, it's it's almost entirely reliant on taxpayer money. However, the visitation to the park is supposed to generate a certain amount of revenue to assist the management of the park. The park is losing revenue through losings visitation. So this is a really really complex issue.

So greg from your perspective, I mean, like, I guess we're an interesting time now, given the fact that the federal election has been called this morning, I know you really want to see some action from the federal Environment minister. I mean, it's really now, I guess to call out to both sides. What do you think needs to happen here?

So greg from your perspective, I mean, like, I guess we're an interesting time now, given the fact that the federal election has been called this morning, I know you really want to see some action from the federal Environment minister. I mean, it's really now, I guess to call out to both sides. What do you think needs to happen here?

Well, I think you know, from certainly from my perspective and and other operator's perspective, tourism hasn't really been given much consideration over the years. You know, we used to have a small amount of engagement with Kakadu, but we that's pretty much been zero for decades now. So what I think needs to happen is that entire management team, so you know, both sides of that joint management structure Environment Australia through the Minister and through the current director and the border management in kakado and also you know tourism stakeholders at the table as well. For tourism itself, we need to discuss how we can actually improve tourism in Kakadoo National Park and how we can align with that tourism strategy so that we can continue to grow tourism at a responsible way and at a responsible level in Kakadu National Park. We actually want to engage the traditional loans, we want to engage the border management and we want everybody to come to the table to have this issue resolved.

Well, I think you know, from certainly from my perspective and and other operator's perspective, tourism hasn't really been given much consideration over the years. You know, we used to have a small amount of engagement with Kakadu, but we that's pretty much been zero for decades now. So what I think needs to happen is that entire management team, so you know, both sides of that joint management structure Environment Australia through the Minister and through the current director and the border management in kakado and also you know tourism stakeholders at the table as well. For tourism itself, we need to discuss how we can actually improve tourism in Kakadoo National Park and how we can align with that tourism strategy so that we can continue to grow tourism at a responsible way and at a responsible level in Kakadu National Park. We actually want to engage the traditional loans, we want to engage the border management and we want everybody to come to the table to have this issue resolved.

Yeah, look it seems you know, to me, it just seems unbelievable. We're then selling Kakadoo on an international stage. You know, if you look at any of the marketing that happens from Tourism NT, it's got Kackadoo included, right. But then people rock up and you know they're trying to go out and visit these beautiful sites. And then as you've said, happened. You arrive and it's closed, despite the website and everything else telling you that it's going to be open. Like that just makes it not only difficult for you to be able to as a tour operator do your job and operate a business, but for us locals, well, it's incredibly disappointing because it means that tourists are going to arrive and instead of leaving with a positive taste in their mouth, they're going to be disappointed. And then I would imagine, you know, when it comes down to all of that marketing and trying to get visitors to the Northern Territory, how do you think you're going to get the onflow of that word of mouth? And you know, people saying to their family and their friends everybody else, will I want to go to the Northern Territory and I'd love to see Kakado if their famili has been here and they don't get to see anything.

Yeah, look it seems you know, to me, it just seems unbelievable. We're then selling Kakadoo on an international stage. You know, if you look at any of the marketing that happens from Tourism NT, it's got Kackadoo included, right. But then people rock up and you know they're trying to go out and visit these beautiful sites. And then as you've said, happened. You arrive and it's closed, despite the website and everything else telling you that it's going to be open. Like that just makes it not only difficult for you to be able to as a tour operator do your job and operate a business, but for us locals, well, it's incredibly disappointing because it means that tourists are going to arrive and instead of leaving with a positive taste in their mouth, they're going to be disappointed. And then I would imagine, you know, when it comes down to all of that marketing and trying to get visitors to the Northern Territory, how do you think you're going to get the onflow of that word of mouth? And you know, people saying to their family and their friends everybody else, will I want to go to the Northern Territory and I'd love to see Kakado if their famili has been here and they don't get to see anything.

And Katie, you're absolutely correct in everything you say there, and this is the difficult thing that we're facing at the moment. But I also want to reiterate that it's not just small business owners like myself, it's larger companies and it's the overall territory tourism. So Kakadu is our key draw card the Northern territory, I mean to the top end. And you know, you can try and get around that as much as you like, but it's indisputable. Kakadu brings thousands of visitors to our top end every year. And you're right, if they can't come and if it cops a bad rap, which it is copying, that momentum has already been broken. You know, not just domestically, but internationally. There's there's international inbound tour operators that design you know, entire Australian itinities for clients and they've struck Kakadou off their list. They're not even selling Kakadu to their international clients. I mean, how about that. You know, that's it is shameful. But again I'm not in this for a fight. My call out is to try and resolve this and you know, for whatever that takes, because we are hurting, we are genuinely hurting. And look, Kakadu is now on the cusp of you know, promoting Aboriginal tourism. You know, they need to transition that economy out there. From mining and that they are looking at tourism. But I you know, we just want them to understand that by continuing to damage the Kakadu profile, you know, nobody's going to come. So they're not going to have any success with their businesses.

And Katie, you're absolutely correct in everything you say there, and this is the difficult thing that we're facing at the moment. But I also want to reiterate that it's not just small business owners like myself, it's larger companies and it's the overall territory tourism. So Kakadu is our key draw card the Northern territory, I mean to the top end. And you know, you can try and get around that as much as you like, but it's indisputable. Kakadu brings thousands of visitors to our top end every year. And you're right, if they can't come and if it cops a bad rap, which it is copying, that momentum has already been broken. You know, not just domestically, but internationally. There's there's international inbound tour operators that design you know, entire Australian itinities for clients and they've struck Kakadou off their list. They're not even selling Kakadu to their international clients. I mean, how about that. You know, that's it is shameful. But again I'm not in this for a fight. My call out is to try and resolve this and you know, for whatever that takes, because we are hurting, we are genuinely hurting. And look, Kakadu is now on the cusp of you know, promoting Aboriginal tourism. You know, they need to transition that economy out there. From mining and that they are looking at tourism. But I you know, we just want them to understand that by continuing to damage the Kakadu profile, you know, nobody's going to come. So they're not going to have any success with their businesses.

I Well, the thing is, it costs a bloody arm and a leg to get to the Northern Territory as it is, you know, so you want to make sure that when people are here that they are having the best possible experience. But as you've said, you know, let's work together, let's try and make this you know, let's try and sort things out, because it would benefit everybody in the Northern Territory if it gets worked out.

I Well, the thing is, it costs a bloody arm and a leg to get to the Northern Territory as it is, you know, so you want to make sure that when people are here that they are having the best possible experience. But as you've said, you know, let's work together, let's try and make this you know, let's try and sort things out, because it would benefit everybody in the Northern Territory if it gets worked out.

Yeah, absolutely, Katie. And again you know that's that's the bigger picture on this. You know, it's not just small operators like myself. And look, if I could, if I could, you know, communicate this directly to Kakadu, I would be But and I've tried, and it's not through lack of trying, you know, from me and other operators for a very very long time, but they're totally unresponsive. And and I guess Katie, what would help is I'd like to know the views of our current Tourism minister on this. You know, is there something that the Northern Territory can do at our level to perhaps communicate this back to Canberra and even you know, you know, communicate this to Kakadu directly. I know that there's been people trying, but again we're not getting any results, and that's that's the reason for my call out. So I'd be curious to know what's happening at a territory government level in regards to this, because this is a huge problem.

Yeah, absolutely, Katie. And again you know that's that's the bigger picture on this. You know, it's not just small operators like myself. And look, if I could, if I could, you know, communicate this directly to Kakadu, I would be But and I've tried, and it's not through lack of trying, you know, from me and other operators for a very very long time, but they're totally unresponsive. And and I guess Katie, what would help is I'd like to know the views of our current Tourism minister on this. You know, is there something that the Northern Territory can do at our level to perhaps communicate this back to Canberra and even you know, you know, communicate this to Kakadu directly. I know that there's been people trying, but again we're not getting any results, and that's that's the reason for my call out. So I'd be curious to know what's happening at a territory government level in regards to this, because this is a huge problem.

Well, look, we'll see what we can find out. Greg, We'll see if we can have a chat to the Tourism Minister at some stage next week and see what we can find out. Mate.

Well, look, we'll see what we can find out. Greg, We'll see if we can have a chat to the Tourism Minister at some stage next week and see what we can find out. Mate.

All right, thank you, thank you.

All right, thank you, thank you.

Thanks so much, appreciate your time this morning.

Thanks so much, appreciate your time this morning.

You're welcome to thank you.

You're welcome to thank you.