As we know, well, there's been a lot of discussion about this social media ban for those under the age of sixteen, and yesterday the Coalition Senator Matt Canavan had said that he was unsure if he was going to support the Albanzy government's social media ban for kids under sixteen. This well, they've dubbed it world leading policy has received broad supporting principle, but parliamentarians have had little time to scrutinize the legislation and privacy has emerged as a key concern for the opposition. Now, I've made it very clear on the show that I certainly see some real issues with this. And joining me on the line right now is Senator Matt Canavan.

As we know, well, there's been a lot of discussion about this social media ban for those under the age of sixteen, and yesterday the Coalition Senator Matt Canavan had said that he was unsure if he was going to support the Albanzy government's social media ban for kids under sixteen. This well, they've dubbed it world leading policy has received broad supporting principle, but parliamentarians have had little time to scrutinize the legislation and privacy has emerged as a key concern for the opposition. Now, I've made it very clear on the show that I certainly see some real issues with this. And joining me on the line right now is Senator Matt Canavan.

Good morning to you, morning Katie. Good to be back talking to you.

Good morning to you, morning Katie. Good to be back talking to you.

Yeah, good to have you on the show. It's been a while, senator. Now I have seen you in the national media all throughout the week talking about your concerns when it comes to this social media ban, and I've thought to myself, that is exactly what I'm thinking. I think that there are a lot of worries when it comes to this band. But where are we ash with it right now? Has it passed through the Senate.

Yeah, good to have you on the show. It's been a while, senator. Now I have seen you in the national media all throughout the week talking about your concerns when it comes to this social media ban, and I've thought to myself, that is exactly what I'm thinking. I think that there are a lot of worries when it comes to this band. But where are we ash with it right now? Has it passed through the Senate.

No, it has not to my knowledge, that hasn't passed through the House of Representatives yet. It was being debated there last night and possibly again this morning. I I'm back of it, and it's focusing on the Saturate over to the Senate before the end of the week. The last sitting schedule sitting day is Thursday. So look, if you've got the numbers in the Senate, you can always do what you want. And as it stands, there is the numbers to pass this bill. I think it's far too rushed, and I will be moving amendments to try and make it better. But it looks like there's been a deal done.

No, it has not to my knowledge, that hasn't passed through the House of Representatives yet. It was being debated there last night and possibly again this morning. I I'm back of it, and it's focusing on the Saturate over to the Senate before the end of the week. The last sitting schedule sitting day is Thursday. So look, if you've got the numbers in the Senate, you can always do what you want. And as it stands, there is the numbers to pass this bill. I think it's far too rushed, and I will be moving amendments to try and make it better. But it looks like there's been a deal done.

Matt. What are your worries about this legislation and about this ban?

Matt. What are your worries about this legislation and about this ban?

Lookie, you mentioned the privacy elements that's up there. Perhaps one that doesn't get talked about enough, I think is the blunt approach here, which effectively cuts out the role of parents. I actually I do support some restrictions on young people accessing social media. There's clearly arms associated with that, but I just think that government should be there to help parents, not replace them. And there is some positive uses of social media too, and so Florida has had a similar law go through in the last year, but they've carved out a situation where fourteen and fifteen year old children can access or can establish a social media account with parental approval. So I'll be moving similar amendments to that that seek to provide an opportunity for parents to be involved and allow children to use social media. I think perhaps the defaults being know is a better approach, and then if there's good reasons in certain circumstances, kids of an elderly age, maybe kids with learning disabilities, it might be some evidence brought forward to us about that that with parental approval that could be allowed. I just think that would be more flexible approach. The problem, of course, we've got. Then. Another reason I'm worried and against it at the moment is how rushed it's been. And the government has already said that they'll rule out digital ID. Now you might have seen that, but the very fact we're making last minute, on the run amendments of this legislation, this world leading, as you said, legislation, indicates to me that it would be much more prudent to take a breath to bring this back next year. Keep in mind this bill does not come into effect. Even if we pass it this week, nothing will change till twenty twenty six. Yes, the provisions of the bill don't come into effect until January twenty twenty six, more than thirteen months away. Why the rush, Well, call me cynical, Katie, but I think a bunch of politicians here want to look like they're doing something before an election. That's what's happening here. I think that's great for the politicians, but it could have really perverse outcomes for the rest of us. Has to verify their age, their identity to maintain a social media account.

Lookie, you mentioned the privacy elements that's up there. Perhaps one that doesn't get talked about enough, I think is the blunt approach here, which effectively cuts out the role of parents. I actually I do support some restrictions on young people accessing social media. There's clearly arms associated with that, but I just think that government should be there to help parents, not replace them. And there is some positive uses of social media too, and so Florida has had a similar law go through in the last year, but they've carved out a situation where fourteen and fifteen year old children can access or can establish a social media account with parental approval. So I'll be moving similar amendments to that that seek to provide an opportunity for parents to be involved and allow children to use social media. I think perhaps the defaults being know is a better approach, and then if there's good reasons in certain circumstances, kids of an elderly age, maybe kids with learning disabilities, it might be some evidence brought forward to us about that that with parental approval that could be allowed. I just think that would be more flexible approach. The problem, of course, we've got. Then. Another reason I'm worried and against it at the moment is how rushed it's been. And the government has already said that they'll rule out digital ID. Now you might have seen that, but the very fact we're making last minute, on the run amendments of this legislation, this world leading, as you said, legislation, indicates to me that it would be much more prudent to take a breath to bring this back next year. Keep in mind this bill does not come into effect. Even if we pass it this week, nothing will change till twenty twenty six. Yes, the provisions of the bill don't come into effect until January twenty twenty six, more than thirteen months away. Why the rush, Well, call me cynical, Katie, but I think a bunch of politicians here want to look like they're doing something before an election. That's what's happening here. I think that's great for the politicians, but it could have really perverse outcomes for the rest of us. Has to verify their age, their identity to maintain a social media account.

Yeah, I've been wondering the same. I'm like, are they trying to distract us from cost of living? What are they doing exactly here? And I totally agree we certainly need to be looking more closely in the way in which things are happening on social media. We've seen terrible ramifications to some of the behavior that does happen on social media. But I also really firmly believe that it is a parent's job to educate their children as well, you know, into the harms that can be caused from social media. And then I also have worries as well Senator that you know, like kids can still contact each other through gaming platforms and to other various other ways, so if there is a bullying scenario, it's not going to totally cut that out.

Yeah, I've been wondering the same. I'm like, are they trying to distract us from cost of living? What are they doing exactly here? And I totally agree we certainly need to be looking more closely in the way in which things are happening on social media. We've seen terrible ramifications to some of the behavior that does happen on social media. But I also really firmly believe that it is a parent's job to educate their children as well, you know, into the harms that can be caused from social media. And then I also have worries as well Senator that you know, like kids can still contact each other through gaming platforms and to other various other ways, so if there is a bullying scenario, it's not going to totally cut that out.

Well, exactly right, And it's not just that our parents. You can have a perspective of the parents should be in primarily responsible for government, But the simple fact is less parents are activated involved, who will not solve this problem. I have no confidence at all that a government bureaucracy that blanket blunts laws passed in Canberra will somehow miraculously remove this issue. That's not how real life works. Because, as you say, my kids are pretty savvy. Same you know, I just I love this story. My eight year old Tom end of the day, Katie that issues bluntly told me she knows all my passwords because she watches me when I put her asleep, and she said it very brazenly. And you know that's what they do. They are very very good, and you've got to be vigilant. You've got to be on the ball. And I worry that this approach seems to think, look, govern's have solved it. You don't have to worry about it. We'll sort it out for you. You know, not only is it wrong, but it's also just going to be ineffective because the kids will find a way around. So we have to use some tools that government can give us, some default options, some guiding principles, and then activate parents to play that role supervisor and ensure that we have better outcomes for our children when they use technology.

Well, exactly right, And it's not just that our parents. You can have a perspective of the parents should be in primarily responsible for government, But the simple fact is less parents are activated involved, who will not solve this problem. I have no confidence at all that a government bureaucracy that blanket blunts laws passed in Canberra will somehow miraculously remove this issue. That's not how real life works. Because, as you say, my kids are pretty savvy. Same you know, I just I love this story. My eight year old Tom end of the day, Katie that issues bluntly told me she knows all my passwords because she watches me when I put her asleep, and she said it very brazenly. And you know that's what they do. They are very very good, and you've got to be vigilant. You've got to be on the ball. And I worry that this approach seems to think, look, govern's have solved it. You don't have to worry about it. We'll sort it out for you. You know, not only is it wrong, but it's also just going to be ineffective because the kids will find a way around. So we have to use some tools that government can give us, some default options, some guiding principles, and then activate parents to play that role supervisor and ensure that we have better outcomes for our children when they use technology.

Well, then the other scenario is that you know what happens then if they do find a way around it and they're using Snapchat, for example, something bad does go on there, and then they're too frightened to tell their parents or to tell anybody about it because they feel as though they're doing the wrong thing and breaking the law. And you know, heaven forbid that they then do something really drastic because they feel as though they've gotten themselves in a city situation that they can't get out of.

Well, then the other scenario is that you know what happens then if they do find a way around it and they're using Snapchat, for example, something bad does go on there, and then they're too frightened to tell their parents or to tell anybody about it because they feel as though they're doing the wrong thing and breaking the law. And you know, heaven forbid that they then do something really drastic because they feel as though they've gotten themselves in a city situation that they can't get out of.

It's a good point, it's a good point. I just don't think there's going to be any perfect outcomes here. I think perhaps the tendency for political leaders to try and try and tell people a pair of tale somehow they can make it all better. But we simply not gaff We certainly not going to eradicate it from technological means. We have to find a way of managing it and minimizing it as much as possible, and I do think there is a way where a bill here could help parents do that. And as I say, I keep coming back to, I'm not against some restrictions, some default provisions. It's just that this bill is very blunt, it's very rushed, and worse than just being incorrect, it could be completely ineffective.

It's a good point, it's a good point. I just don't think there's going to be any perfect outcomes here. I think perhaps the tendency for political leaders to try and try and tell people a pair of tale somehow they can make it all better. But we simply not gaff We certainly not going to eradicate it from technological means. We have to find a way of managing it and minimizing it as much as possible, and I do think there is a way where a bill here could help parents do that. And as I say, I keep coming back to, I'm not against some restrictions, some default provisions. It's just that this bill is very blunt, it's very rushed, and worse than just being incorrect, it could be completely ineffective.

So, Senator, from your perspective, what are your next steps in terms of those amendments and what are you really going to be pushing for.

So, Senator, from your perspective, what are your next steps in terms of those amendments and what are you really going to be pushing for.

Well, I mentioned one, they're the parental responsibility pro finding a way to put parents back in the bill, so I'll be moving that. So basically my role is to try and make the bill better. That's something pretty confident it will go through this week. That's more inestimation of how this is going. I'd love to suggest that somehow the soaring rhetoric of speeches in the Senate can change people's views at last minute, but that's not really how it works. But I can put things on the table, I can get as much support for as possible, And look, we have already had a win with the digital ID being ruled out. That was something I and others were pushing. That's something the government has also said. It will over provide more oversight on the E Safety Commissioner, who will be responsible for writing how your age will be verified. So that's a positive step as well as one of my amendments. Another one, I think all the data collected to verify your age should be destroyed at the moment. There are some loopholes which could allow companies to maintain that data if they get your consents, but we all know that consent given over online sometimes is a little cursory, so I would like to remove that as well, So I'll push those things. I do think there's been lots of people activated by this. I've taken some of these ideas from comments on social media. I've ronically myself, so there's been a lot of community interest and just trying to do my job to scrutinize this legislation in the limited time i've got.

Well, I mentioned one, they're the parental responsibility pro finding a way to put parents back in the bill, so I'll be moving that. So basically my role is to try and make the bill better. That's something pretty confident it will go through this week. That's more inestimation of how this is going. I'd love to suggest that somehow the soaring rhetoric of speeches in the Senate can change people's views at last minute, but that's not really how it works. But I can put things on the table, I can get as much support for as possible, And look, we have already had a win with the digital ID being ruled out. That was something I and others were pushing. That's something the government has also said. It will over provide more oversight on the E Safety Commissioner, who will be responsible for writing how your age will be verified. So that's a positive step as well as one of my amendments. Another one, I think all the data collected to verify your age should be destroyed at the moment. There are some loopholes which could allow companies to maintain that data if they get your consents, but we all know that consent given over online sometimes is a little cursory, so I would like to remove that as well, So I'll push those things. I do think there's been lots of people activated by this. I've taken some of these ideas from comments on social media. I've ronically myself, so there's been a lot of community interest and just trying to do my job to scrutinize this legislation in the limited time i've got.

You know, the big question I've got is like, has anybody actually spoken to kids about how they use social media and spoken to those at that age. I know you and I have we've got kids probably at that age but I just think to myself, has the Prime Minister sat down and asked them to speak to him frankly about it?

You know, the big question I've got is like, has anybody actually spoken to kids about how they use social media and spoken to those at that age. I know you and I have we've got kids probably at that age but I just think to myself, has the Prime Minister sat down and asked them to speak to him frankly about it?

Look, I can't speak to the Prime Minister, but it's an excellent point. There's a young kid called Leopolizi who at a very young age, with parental supervision, started up a political news channel on Twitter, the six news. It's called Yep, and he does a great job a lot of people. He breaks his broken stories in politics and he's now he's now seventeen. But ironically he interviewed the Prime Minister when he was fourteen on Twitter and how the Primister wants to ban other fourteen year old and doing the same. And I've spoken to him about his experience and how positive that was for his development. As I said, he did it with rental supervision, and he's a great success story. I wanted to get him along to the Senate inquiry on Monday and he was keen to come along, but he had cool and couldn't make it. So yeah, yeah, that's you know, because we've done this so rush. No we haven't. We haven't spoken to any children in the Senate inquiry and why not? Why not have some examples like Leo or others that have had negative outcomes, if they want to come forward, we could have had the time to look at those things. And I say there's no rush for this bill not starting for thirteen months anyway. That's yeah, we're going to happen.

Look, I can't speak to the Prime Minister, but it's an excellent point. There's a young kid called Leopolizi who at a very young age, with parental supervision, started up a political news channel on Twitter, the six news. It's called Yep, and he does a great job a lot of people. He breaks his broken stories in politics and he's now he's now seventeen. But ironically he interviewed the Prime Minister when he was fourteen on Twitter and how the Primister wants to ban other fourteen year old and doing the same. And I've spoken to him about his experience and how positive that was for his development. As I said, he did it with rental supervision, and he's a great success story. I wanted to get him along to the Senate inquiry on Monday and he was keen to come along, but he had cool and couldn't make it. So yeah, yeah, that's you know, because we've done this so rush. No we haven't. We haven't spoken to any children in the Senate inquiry and why not? Why not have some examples like Leo or others that have had negative outcomes, if they want to come forward, we could have had the time to look at those things. And I say there's no rush for this bill not starting for thirteen months anyway. That's yeah, we're going to happen.

Look, it doesn't seem as though it's going to happen, And I'll be really fascinated to see how it all does roll out and whether it makes a difference or whether we wind up in a situation where we've got, you know, young people that are still jumping online and finding those loopholes and what it's all going to mean.

Look, it doesn't seem as though it's going to happen, And I'll be really fascinated to see how it all does roll out and whether it makes a difference or whether we wind up in a situation where we've got, you know, young people that are still jumping online and finding those loopholes and what it's all going to mean.

Well, thanks for taking interest in it. Great to good to catch up.

Well, thanks for taking interest in it. Great to good to catch up.

Thanks so much for your time, and no doubt we'll find out more and certainly hear more over the coming days when it comes to this legislation.

Thanks so much for your time, and no doubt we'll find out more and certainly hear more over the coming days when it comes to this legislation.

Thanks Cady Gay say bye.

Thanks Cady Gay say bye.