Michael sits down with trial lawyer Jefferson Fisher, author of The Next Conversation, on why hard conversations are some of the most uncomfortable things we do and how to do them better. They discuss:

- The hardest conversation Jefferson has ever had

- Exactly what to do before having a hard conversation

- Why you shouldn’t try to win arguments (and what to do instead)

- Why your breath should be your first word

- A key to progress: stop over-apologizing

- The five-second rule of silence

- Why brevity wins: say it in three sentences

- Boundaries: lead with the no

- When someone's grieving, just do the thing

- Why no is a complete sentence

And more …

Go deeper: Do Hard Things

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today's episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. Our editor is Will Mayo. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

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