Sheree Sullivan went from a jazz piano degree to running one of Australia's leading Brie and Camembert makers. Her family's goat dairy, Udder Delights, came close to going under more than once, and she says pain has been her biggest teacher.

In this conversation with host Sav Perera, Sheree shares the costing wake-up call that changed how she ran the business, the HR lesson she learned after handing a hard conversation to someone else, and why she now asks "what's the lesson?" the moment something hurts.

She also opens up about selling Udder Delights while grieving her mum, why the dollar value is only one part of a sale, and what she did differently the second time around with Grünthal Brew.

If you're starting out, you'll hear her practical advice: know your profit percent, get a bookkeeper, work out what you're prepared to sacrifice, and do an organisational chart of every role in your business to find your first hire.

Recorded on Kaurna Land. You're In Charge is brought to you by ThincHer, an initiative of ThincLab at Adelaide University.

Chapter timestamps

00:00 Welcome to season two and meet Sheree

01:20 From jazz piano to cheese and brewing

03:55 A family of side hustles and a goat dairy

07:52 Learning to make cheese when nobody else could

09:59 Doing everything when you start a business

11:08 Fail fast and the five year commitment

12:00 The profit percent wake-up call

16:14 The HR lesson

18:52 Cash flow, sacrifice and Rich Dad Poor Dad

21:49 Near bankruptcy: metal in the cheese and the insurance fight

24:07 Where the motivation comes from

25:32 Selling Udder Delights

32:59 Why start again? Finding the why behind Grünthal Brew

35:23 The practice night panic attack

38:33 What's different the second time around

41:05 From doing to leading: the org chart

44:29 Letting go of control: boundaries, values and systems

48:50 Advice: finish what you start, and what you're prepared to sacrifice

52:04 Get a bookkeeper

55:14 What Sheree wants to master

56:48 Sav's takeaways