Explicit

Lisa Donovan

Published Oct 26, 2021, 7:30 AM

Lisa Donovan is a multi-hyphenated creator who developed The Pattern, one of the most popular apps that only continues to catch the interest of people globally. She joins Sophia on the podcast today to talk about being one of the pioneers of YouTube, what it feels like to be seen and understood, and the impact The Pattern is making on people’s lives and how they understand themselves. 


Executive Producers: Sophia Bush & Rabbit Grin Productions

Associate Producers: Samantha Skelton & Mica Sangiacomo

Editor: Josh Windisch

Artwork by the Hoodzpah Sisters

This show is brought to you by Brilliant Anatomy

Hi everyone, it's Sophia and welcome back to work in progress. Today's guest is basically the original influencer before social media stardom was even really a thing, not content to ride the gigantic wave of YouTube popularity, she co founded her own media and technology company, Maker Studios. After helping develop and expand the company for six years, Disney purchased Maker Studios for about seven hundred million dollars. After that, our guests got back to work to start another giant project from the ground up all over again, and that is Lisa Donovan. In a nutshell, Lisa wasn't only one of the pioneers of YouTube. She was one of the first content creators to cross over into mainstream entertainers when she joined the cast of Mad TV for their two thousand six season, and even added model to her growing resume. But at the end of the day, it was an entrepreneurial drive that motivated her to lay the groundwork for the Pattern, an app she developed in a company she is now CEO of. It's a self actualization platform on like anything else out there, and without a single advertisement. The Pattern recently surpassed a staggering fifteen million users Oh. I have so many questions for Lisa about what it was like to be a touch done for YouTube as it was just becoming popular, what motivates and sustains her business success, and how she developed into who she is today and came up with this company. Getting to see a more personal side of Lisa is a rare thing. So I feel honored to have her here, and I hope you enjoyed today's interview on work in Progress. I am sitting down, as you know, today with Lisa Donovan, who is the founder of the Pattern, and we just went through an analyzed my pattern together, and I took a copious six pages of notes. You all know I love a little bit of curriculum, and we're going to get into how this all works. But before we jump into the present and how it is informed by your work, I actually really love to go backwards first. With all of my guests, I I'm always so curious how a fascinating person like yourself that I'm sitting across from today wound up here. So if we go back to the beginning, was Lisa as a child interested in the spiritual and in the psychological and in the way that people related to each other or were you were you thinking about completely different things. That's a great question. I I think I was always fascinated by people, always really really super curious, very interested in people, very interested information and psychology. Definitely. I liked sort of watching asking. I mean, anybody who knows I ask a lot of questions, some some people your gemini. UM, so super curious about people and what motivates them. Um. I did not grow up in a spiritual type home. It was much more you know, logical, cerebral. Didn't grow up with religion. But I think looking back, I probably was connected to those things and just didn't realize it, if that makes sense. And but I did not consciously think of myself as anybody spiritual or anything like that. This came later when I discovered sort of astrology and my life took a turn and I wind up getting more on a spiritual path. But the psychology, yeah, that piece of it, Oh, it was very interesting. Yeah, that tracks. I think I was very similar as a kid, and I I guess I'm surprised to hear you say that you grew up in such a cerebral household because both of your parents are artists in their own right. So I suppose when I, when I you know, discovered that fact, I assumed that perhaps something was was different. Well, yeah, they were. It's just more my dad grew up you know, Irish Catholic, very religious. I was gonna be like a priest, but then sort of left that world. He was in aquarious moon, like, you know, very different, the out of the box guy and sort of you know, sort of left organized religion. So we grew up in a home where like, we're not going to have any organized religion, no religion, you know, and we don't. And he was much more logical about it. It wasn't there just wasn't that spirituality in the home, even though he was incredibly creative um person and he you know, his job was to be a wedding photographer, which wasn't so fun, but he made documentaries for his creative passion. And my mom was an artist, um. But also she didn't grow up in a religious time, so we just didn't have that part of it. And I think the older I got that's what was missing from my life because I think it's mine body spirit and if the spirit isn't there, something is missing. And I think, um, that's that was a huge change in my life going down that path. Yeah. Wow, all of my sort of systems are firing because you're making me realize. And I've obviously thought about this a lot. But for me, I grew up in a household that was a jumble of deeply Catholic, completely agnostic, and Jewish. Oh yeah, my mom's Jewish. It's funny. Interesting. So between my family and my extended family, the sort of blending of faith, traditions and ideas. I always felt very close to spirituality, but also very confused about how we could fight wars. You know, whether I went to church or synagogue, I was like, everybody's basically saying the same thing. You know, It's like it's basically like it's just people trying on different sweaters. I don't understand they're all a sweater. They're different colors and they're made of different materials, but like we're talking about sweaters. And so for me, as a kid, I leaned into the cerebral side of spirituality and started studying religion, all different kinds of religion. I took a really fascinating theology course my first year at university because I had been studying all of these sort of Eastern philosophies through early high school and then spent my senior year in high school studying Islam, and then I just wanted to know more and more and more because I started with two and I needed to understand the rest. Yeah, and so I'm fascinated by you saying that because I do think there's something about that spiritual notion that that there's something bigger, that we are all connected by an invisible thread that's really good for us. Oh yeah, I mean growing up without religion, it is really terrifying because as a kid, I think I was obsessed with understanding it, and like you, I went the cerebral route. I was like, I have to understand this. How does this work? I don't understand what's happening here, because I think it is terrifying. If you don't. I think it's whether you're a child or an adult. If if there isn't sort of that connection to there is something greater. I think it's not easy. You know, if it's all on you and you're like I it's just me and you know and nothing else. I mean, that's it's it's a certain way to live. It's not it's not easy, and I think it's a kid that can be very overwhelming. And that's where religion can be really wonderful because it makes sense of things for you, and in a certain way, my spiritual path when I started going on, I mean, the pattern itself, when you think about it, really is somebody with a cerebral mind trying to make sense of of emotions and things that are overwhelming. That's how it started in a certain way. So, yeah, I relate to what you're saying, because you went down the lane of like, how do I understand this? Yeah? Well, and I got curious about it because the fervency of religion scared me because I I saw that I belonged to, to quote, separate religious groups and they were groups that had killed each other over their religion. And I was like, this is super toxic. How how could you claim to believe in, you know, the sanctity of life for oneness and and have a history like the Crusades. I don't understand this. And so for me, what I wanted was was to get what you just explained to me is how my brain works. I wanted the thirty thou foot view. I didn't care so much for which sweater you were putting on. I wanted to understand why we all wanted a sweater. Yeah, and and to find the through line of the something special, the sacredness in you as the sacredness in me. It gave me an understanding that for me personally felt larger than anyone faith tradition and made the world makes sense. It helped me understand why I felt like I was worshiping when I was in nature. Why the you know, there's something larger, can be the planet, it can be the thousand year old redwood, it can be the spark that enabled you or me. It really helped me because I was having a very hard time with the judgment, cruelty and and killing disguised as faith. Well. But that's and that's also the difference, like being connected to spirit or whatever, your connection is to something greater or God or spirit, whatever you wanna call it, doesn't really have to have anything to do with religion, right because that's the organization of that's the control of it. And of course the history and crusades and all the things that have been done in the name of God or spirit, you know, is the corruption of it. And it's really when I talk about spirit and being connected. It's really whatever it's personal to you. It's looking at a flower, taking a walk in nature, talking to God, talking to spirit, whatever it is that's yours, that's personal, you know. And I think it's such a gift if that can come into your life and you can connect with that, because there is you know, we are, we are all one. It isn't us alone, you know, this is this is uh, We're connected and very deep, amazing ways that will never really understand, and that is the mystery of life. And I think it's so neat. I don't know part of my inner child, I think is is like seeing your inner child down the hall being like, oh, you want to read these books too? Cool? Oh yeah, I didn't know in a lot of other fourteen year olds who were reading the Upanishads, but they were really making me makes sense of things. And it's funny because when I think about it in terms of some of the other things you said about my pattern about always feeling a bit like an outsider, like I didn't understand this place, I'm like, oh yeah, because because when I was fourteen, I was reading those books but not talking to my friends about it. That was my word, and then I had this school world and yeah, a lot of things are clicking right now. And I am curious, you know, since we're talking about you know, Lisa as a young person, which is obviously waking up my inner Sophia as a as a young person. Now, I know you weren't raised with it, but we will be discussing how it informs us. What astrological sign was baby Lisa born under I was born in June, so I was born under Gemini. Of course the pattern doesn't really do sun sign astrology said, it's not as relevant. My sun sign is a camp are right, but your your venus is in Gemini, your moon is inaquarious. Like these we'd say are much more archetypally you. They make up. They're sort of the energy you've been endowed with in this life to work with. So when you think about it looking at your signs, does analyzing your astrological pattern matchup with the kind of kid that you were? Oh? Completely, I mean that's what was sort of incredible when I got the first reading, because I think I thought astrology was you know, cheesy or new ag. It was kind of like when I was talking about doing you're reading. I thought of it just the sun sign way, which it didn't make sense to me. So everybody born in the month of June is having the exact same day and we're the exact same person. It makes no sense. But I think that's why a lot of people go that's not for me exactly. But what I didn't know and I got the reading is we didn't talk about that at all. We were talking about the moment of my birth. So we're talking about the moon that changes every you know, two and a half days end in every two hours, very specific to me. And then it was really just a psychological breakdown of who I was and made sense of all my neuroses and securities, fears, strengths, you know, aptitudes, the things I was going through, my my relationship, the disaster relationship, like you know, all of it. And I was like, it was just this mirror and I was like, wow, okay, what on earth is you know? And the mystery sort of I was like, well, and then my mind was like I must figure this out. And the obsession began. And where did it come from for you? Where where was your first touch point to that? Very specific? I mean, I'll call it science because if we're analyzing positions of you know, the moon and planets, NASA does that. So the idea that there's something you know, somehow unscientific about this is actually quite ironic and comical. And so as I've learned more about it, I'm more and more fascinated by it. Where where did you first intersect with true astrology? Not the your zodiac sign is nonsense. Well, I you know, I had a very different life and different path before this one I was on. I had a whole other business and was running this business, and it was at a time in my life when my life was sort of I need to come up with a more graceful way of talking about it, but I'm mostly just like it was just falling apart. Like in my sort of personality or ego, whatever you call it, however I define myself, what I saw my life as, the people in my life, the things I was going to do, all of it just was gone very quickly. And the illusion of what I believed in so thoroughly and was so sure of was completely shattered. And I was like, oh, I know nothing, okay, which is kind of the most incredible moment of my life because there's incredible liberation when you spend your life trying to fix everything, please everybody, work your ass off, and then you realize in a certain way you failed at doing that. And then you're like, let a relief to just dive into the failure and and or what I would have defined as failure and just be me and be real about that. And I was sort of in a very open, vulnerable sort of place and realizing my mind did not know at all and I was not going to be able to figure it all out with my head. And just I was with a friend and she happened to be talking about astrology. I was like, maybe I'll do one of those, maybe I'll have the answer I don't know, And I did. I had a reading, and like I said, it was just how the fund did you know about me? Like what you know? And of course in my mind was like I have to figure it out. I figured out I have to nail it down and understand it. And but that that actually was the start of what I'd say, a new chapter in my life and an openness to not being as in control and an openness to spirit and the mystery that is life and being in that flow instead of trying to control the flow, and there it began. It's so wild to think about the fact that you were one of the earliest people doing things in the digital space. I mean, your your first YouTube videos from two thousand six. What what made you decide to to start a channel? I mean you were you were really one of the original online creators long time ago. Yeah, that was one YouTube was I mean it was really really early days. There was like tiny, tiny community mostly just people making videos in the room and it was really exciting seeing the site because you're like, what is this and their comedy and we're talking to each and I um was edding at the time and doing a little bit of Brothers and actor. I was doing a little bit act and I was like, oh, this is incredible, you know, and this is going to be the future of everything, and it seems so sort of obvious in a super certain way. And and made the video and you know, the first video of channel it's called Lisa Nova, and it was you know, just sort of took off, but it was at a time before it was you know, monetized. You kind of had to like make the videos and had these people watching, but there's no money. It was a very interesting thing because this tiny niche who had all these people that really cared about this, these silly videos you're making, but the rest of the world had definituitely no idea what you're talking about, and it was a lot of like, why are you doing that? I don't understand, you know, And then did that for many years, for three years, and that was sort of that experience sort of help inspire co founding Maker Studios, which was, you know, studio for YouTube content creators. And again it was this group of content creators or talent whatever you call it, that were there was a sort of a hole and that nobody was sort of taking care of those that kind of talents. Were like, Okay, we'll help make videos for them, will have a studio, mono, will manage, we'll help with advertising, all those kinds of things. And so I wound up being on the business end and moved away from the creating content. And that was a whole creative experience learning about running a business. When did you guys start Makers? That was two thousand nine to three years my channel, and then at the first couple of years I was doing a lot of the channel because it was I was the one with the credit and so I was just going into a tremendous amount of debt and had a bunch of leases and things in my name. It was just I just went all in on this thing. And so any time I was making money or do anything, he was going right back into the business. And then a couple of years and I wound up just being on the business end, and yeah, because I was. But you were one of the first people who got to monetize their YouTube channel, right yeah Google. I was like, I forgot how many of the weal of us? But yeah, that was Google. It bought YouTube and and then you know, the thought was, okay, now we're gonna have enough to really live off of. And it didn't matter how many millions of Yews you got the CPMs, you know, the clicks per thousand were still pretty low. So again, the idea of Maker was, Okay, if we joined forces and we worked together, we can help each other. So what is the what is the ethos of Makers Studios? I mean that was just about sort of empowering the content creator. It was a very specific time where you could just be somebody in your home. I mean, this is we take this for granted now. But then it was this idea of like, no, you could just you don't have to be the richest person, but you can make your living creating content and just being you and and doing what excites you and sharing your sort of niche life and message, and let's empower you to do that. It was you know, this is all overuse stuff now, but that it was a lot of like we're democratizing, you know, entertainment and content. It was sort of the changing of the guard and the shifting of how content was made. So it was a lot about that really just empowering the creator. I mean that that wasn't era of such a major leap in terms of access and in terms of even the amount of information available. I think about you guys growing, you know, co founding the studio and then growing this online media world. And then the company got bought by the Walt Disney I mean that's major, that's a major. Her statement and deal was was that exciting? Was it exciting? And and was there a a sense of goodbye? Like what how how was that to be acquired by such a big Yeah? Yeah again, I mean it's so much in life is timing and it was just it was incredible timing to be on YouTube at that time, and you know, put in those ten thousand hours and the timing of Maker and then again the timing of Disney coming along, and again it is Disney, so you take that very seriously when Disney comes along, And yeah, it was it was very exciting. I mean, there's so many things going on at that time, and so many details we don't need to get into, but yeah, I mean it's been eight years, three years of my channel, five years of the company. And also nobody was really focused on the YouTube content creator at that time, and we had this moment of coming in and being that for them, and I think I saw that eventually kind of YouTube would wind up being our competitor too, And this was great timing. We were sort of at the apex of of where the company was going to be, and it was sort of a great opportunity to go there. And and it's not really about me, you know, like it was about the greater thing and the greater company and it's best for everybody. So sure there is all your letting go of this thing, but I don't have like, oh, it's it's all about me. Or you know, possessive of that. It was like, well, what is best for everybody? And this was the best thing for everybody. And so many people who worked for us were friends and family, and you know, it was just making good on this thing that you you were trying to tell everybody. You know, you're moving people out to California and changing their lives and giving up their jobs and going for it, and you wanted to make good on it. And it was a great moment, an opportunity, and it was happy to help be a part of that happening. And I was, I was personally ready. I was. I was burnt out on YouTube. I don't think I went on YouTube for years after that was like I never see a YouTube video. Good. So you guys got acquired and then what So the year leading up to that is kind of also when my life was spelling apart. So I was going through a lot of transitional stuff. Things were transitioning, life was changing in so many ways, and I was changing and who I was was changing. And I had now had this sort of astrology, reading this new passion, and so I just dove deeper into that passion and shortly after it just was like, this was incredible, This helped navigate my life. I would love to figure out a way to share this with the world, and how do I mimic my experience in a way that's scalable. And that's when I was like, I'll do that. If we go back to your first reading, which has obviously inspired your current work and company and the app and everything. What what was it? What was it about that that was so special to you? What took it from oh that wu wo we thing that people do that I don't believe into this is this is actually major? I had no idea. Yeah, I mean I think it was that being completely mirrored. You know, we talked about you having said Saturn, I have heavy saturn to just the way he spoke about a certain sense of deficiencies, certain need to to work so hard, the heaviness of you need to prove yourself again, certain aptitude, certain fears, such specific things, you know, the things I dealt with in my romantic relationship lives, like these patterns of behavior and the course my life had taken. And I just I don't even think I said anything. It was mostly just being told the stuff and I got off just sort of like what And again I'm very curious, you know, I want to know everything. I've had a million jobs. I want to learn if this was like wow, wow, okay, this is like what just happened? And I wanted to know more. And then I sort of dove in trying to understand it. And again, what's beautiful about it is there's a mystery to this. You know what what I shared with you or what is being shared with me, we are saying the fact that my moon was in Gemini at the time of my birth, that there's meaning behind that, there's mystery. So of course my mind was always trying to lock it down, like how is this perfectly logical and understand? And then there was this giving over to the mystery of life and diving, and that opened me up to more of this spiritual side of my life because there is something quite a lot like faith, where there's a lot about the stories you're hearing that makes sense and then you have to trust. And I will say, you know, going through the pre call to this episode with you having you kind of point out all of the very specific things, as you said about every part of my chart that gave me goose bumps over and over again because they're very particular. And and I didn't know before that there are certain parts of the planetary positioning that change every two hours. You know that that it's that accurate. And what's funny about this? And I didn't tell you this when we were not recording it for a long time. I had my birthtime wrong and charts weren't accurate for me. I was like, no, that's never happened. Now, that's not how I feel. No, And and my mom corrected me on the time, and literally everything got very specific to the point that it's almost eerie. I've had people say that to me. That's what I love about I mean, I've had it where I've done charts like that and it's not making sense. And I was like, bizarre. I was like, maybe your times aren't sure enough, the time will be wrong. Wow. I was like, there we go. So we're talking about this wild you know, science and mystery combined together in this arena of practice. And you spent years developing the app for the pattern, which is your current work for for listeners who are unfamiliar with it, can you tell us what it is? And then I want to ask about how you created it? UM, I like to think of it is a way to better understand yourself and to connect with others in a deeper way. Um. This woman, I shouldn't take credit for it. She wrote this article about and she said it's sort of Myers Briggs meets Burnet Brown. I love that description, but it's it's really a way to better understand yourself and the patterns and dynamics in your life. The algorithms methodology is all astrology based. There is no astrology in the app because I wanted people to just be able to get the wisdom have the experience of feeling seen and understood. I wanted to be the sort of safe place to feel seen and understood because I think it's what we all want. It's what I want, It's what I think everybody really wants to feel like, Okay, I'm being seen, and we can't always get that in our lives or from the people in our lives. And that's what sort of beautiful about this because it can be sort of a mirror for that. And then there's a relaxing, a relaxing into who you are, surrendering into who you are, because usually you know you are, and that's what you're being defined by culture, family or friends, and you're really off course. And perhaps I was in my life too. And when I got this reading and he told me everything I already know, you can be like, all right, I can stop stop fighting against my my, my nature and just let myself be mhm. I think one of the things that it's really impactful for me to consider when thinking about how something like this might just provide a little lift or uh an answer to a puzzling question that I can't quite answer by myself, is really again to lean on the science. You know, if if the position of the moon is strong enough to move the ocean right, it's obviously strong enough to affect my body, which is sev water. There you go. And to understand gravity, gravitational pull, planetary movement helps us really lean into aliance. And when I think about, as I said, just being affected by that, to be able to dip into something like the pattern which says this is a moment of heaviness, these things are coming up in the world, it's just a nice reminder to go, Ah, that might be why I feel a little intense this week, And maybe instead of beating myself up about why I'm not sleeping better, or or why I can't seem to get it all done today, I can go, oh yeah, this is a really intense planetary time. I would imagine everyone on Earth is feeling this right, just like the seasons. You know, it's winter, it's a season. There are seasons with the planets, and things are moving and and like I said to you when we did your chart, it's about the moment of your birth as above so below so where the planets are in the sky at the time of your birth, you or any individual that is a creative expression of that person that single moment in time, you know. And it's a blueprint for the conscious aware path, you know, because we'll go off of it. But it's a way to sort of be like, Okay, here's here's a way to be sort of more in touch. A lot of times we beat ourselves up for feeling certain things or feeling like we're not enough, and this is also a way to say, okay, well, I haven't done anything wrong. Maybe there's intention to why things are the way they are. And I always say too while we're saying you're maybe faded to deal with these kinds of energies I don't believe in predictive astrology. It is always your choice how you choose to deal with anything, and that's your destiny. And everybody has free will, so somebody with your exact same chart will have a very different life experience. Yeah. So I'm curious because we're talking about this specific, specific, specific things that exists for each of us. Yeah, this is an app that anyone can sign up to use, So how does it work? What are the years of development that went into this consistent? Yeah? Uh well yeah, I was like, oh, I'm gonna make this app. This will be super easy, no problem, and you know, and that wasn't. It wasn't. That was like seven years ago, because I thought I could just hire somebody to do it and write it, and that was impossible because I was trying to mimic my experience. So I wound up um sort of chasing this astrologer around the world, like wherever he was going on, show up and like can I get you for like a week at a time, you sit with me. He was, you know, doing his stuff and living his life. So I'd get him and I just started extracting the information and trying to understand it. So I was going to kind of take somebody as an oral tradition and figure out how to put it in a system that could be an algorithm. And that was the whole process. So you know, it's it's getting in, understanding it, creating the algorithms, working with the CODA, was going to understand those things, and then starting to write the content, and that that took the longest. That took years and years and years, because I wanted it to be really deep, as we said, go deeper. I wanted there to be a lot because I knew as a user, I couldn't find anything that went deep enough for me and synthesized all of it, made sense of the entire holistic picture of who you were. And so I became you know, channeled my saturn or by obsessive energies into this. And it was also at a time when I was going through stuff, so it was kind of a catharsis for me in a way to process and understand my own journey. So I think they were in parallel what was happening and sort of what fed the building of this, and so that that was just years of writing and my father was sick at the time, so I wound up moving home and I stayed there for years, and you know, with my couple of years with my mom as well, after my father passed, and just I'd write, you know all day and eat dinner with mom and do it again the next day, and um, just do it and do it and do it until it felt like it was there was enough, and it just kept building on the system and and then um, we were in a beta and that started to get shared and you're on the original. Wow, because then just Penny was like, oh, I get you on this thing. Penny thought, Yeah, she she's great, she's wonderful, she's one of the really, she's the second time she's come up in podcasts. Um. And but one day it really, it really just took off because there was I had given it to people, you know, and maybe there was people sharing it. But then one day it was like I woke up and there's like thirty thousand people there and I was like what, And I just like what is happening? I'm looking around, like what. And then from that dawn, it's just been the sort of word of mouth thing, you know, friends sharing it with friends, and I think word of mouth is such a compliment too, for any kind of service that grows like this. I mean, you've got fifteen over fifteen million profiles on on the pattern. Now, the fact that it's worked or helped or given comfort or ideas sparked thoughts for so many people that they tell all of their friends must feel pretty amazing. Yeah, it's it's incredible. It's like the mystery of the whole thing, you know how that even happens. I was like, it just did you know? It was like that if you build it, they will come, I say. I was like, you know, because you don't know. You're sitting in your room writing this stuff like a crazy person, you know, no life, and you don't know that anybody is going to think this is interesting. So it was it was wonderful to know that it was of service because you know, you're writing so in depth, and I think there was things like is anybody gonna really want to read that much? Because I would, but would anybody else? And so that was just wonderful to know people were enjoying it and it it was in service to something. Yeah, and that the seven years that you and these experts spent figuring out how to do this have been so generative for so many people. I also have to point out that it's very cool for us to be talking about this, not only because of the subject matter, but in public, because up until this past summer and the interview that you did with Vanity Fair, people didn't know that you were the founder. They didn't know where this came for. And I'm curious what was behind that decision or desire to keep yourself private for so long. It was so amazing how it was just growing on its own, and I was like, this is great. Why do I need to get involved? You know, like it's just great, it's happening. Um, that's the whole thing, you know, to put yourself out in the world like this, I think I do. It's not something I like dream of or like love, you know, but I think there was probably certain fear around doing that and and just loving that it had its own life and not wanting to intrude on that. And because then you're connected to something, there can be a lot of projection. That's a lot of energy put at you, especially with something that is so emotional for people and so powerful for them, all of a sudden, that can get projected on you. So there's all those kinds of thoughts. But when you're trying to grow a business, at some point you have to communicate, You have to be tr it's fair, and you have to talk to people. So I knew it was probably gonna have to come and and it didn't. It's actually been wonder everybody's so nice and wonderful and it's not as um, it's not as terrible as I thought. Everybody's really wonderful and it's great. But yeah, if I, like I could have, I probably never would have been. It would have been cool. Wouldn't have been if it was just a mystery and what is that? Why did this? But again I I think that it's the fact that it's ground to tens of millions of people and you didn't have to go out and hustle for coverage. It really did this because of what it offers. And I think it's cool that upon its success you've been able to also take ownership and explain it to people and invite people in. I really wonder if, especially after this year, you know, so many people are feeling burned out. The reports of burnout are going through the roof, whether it's from the pandemic, or this, you know, incredibly tense culmination of five years of insane politics. You know, work stresses, social movements. I wonder do you see astrology Do you see some of these little uh hey, pay attention to this sort of light bulbs that the app can provide. Do you see that as a tool to help with burnout? Definitely? And I think, I mean that's just been with all the intensity and tension in the world and all the things, there's also been this growing awareness that people are having or desire for things like you know, meditation and understanding themselves better and um, going sort of deeper into their own psyche and feelings and emotions, and so it is interesting and astrology certainly is now having this moment. You know, when I started seven years ago, it wasn't quite there, and you know, and that was also part of why we didn't put astrology in the app, you know, just to make sure there was no barrier to entry so people would use it without being turned off by it. But now I think people are looking for tools. It's a part of life. And I feel like all the young people who are way more conscious coming to this world, they're like, I can't believe, Yeah, I mean, I just people are twenty. When I was twenty, I was so far away from the consciousness I see of a lot of young people and it just seems like part of their nature to seek and search and understand. And I think, especially this year, what we've gone through collectively, I think it's taken everybody deeper and everybody wants something that's more authentic and real and all these tools, there's so many, and the Pattern is, you know, just just one of them. I um a way to go in and explore and and feel like it can't help with things like burnout, our anxiety, or anything that that you're going through. I'm also curious about connection, because you're talking about giving people the opportunity to connect to idea, is or truth outside of themselves. But the Pattern has added a new feature that's actually called connect and it helps connect users on the platform with potential romantic matches, and I'm I'm really excited about that. I actually don't even think he knows this, But just to make sure I wasn't completely losing my mind with how great um my relationship with my fiance felt like, very quickly, I plugged his information into the Pattern and I was like, Oh wow, this actually has really really cool stuff to say. All right, that's that's a nice little nod. Um. But I realized actually prepping for our call today that I should have him, you know, properly sign up so we get little notifications about each other stuff. Um. But I'm wondering, you know, I've I've never been on a dating app, like I've never I've never been on Rya or Tinder any of those things, So I don't know what they offer, but I imagine Connect is pretty different from other partnership apps, like you know, even a website like an e harmony or a bumble Um. How how is this different? Yeah? The big differentiator is, well, it's also based on you know, the pattern is about going deeper in general, right, and being more authentic and being comfortable with all the parts of who you are. And so Connect is the next octave of that, you know, and taking it to the relationship realm. So one, when you go on it is you know, typical of how you might be on other dating apps, and you're looking at profiles, um, and you're looking at people, and when you see something that looks interesting before you can connect with that person, you need to run what's called the bond, and so you're getting a sense of your relationship right away, whether you have something extraordinary or challenging or your soul mates, and there's content with it. So it's already telling you this is a life changing kind of connection or this is a karmic link. So then from that point you can choose to connect with that person. And you're already starting from this place nearly of having an opportunity to go right into something that's that's real and deeper and instead of just sort of the glossy fake like look at me, yeah, instead of someone's five best photos, it's like you're both very cerebral in pren days. I can have to this person about that act exactly and yeah, so just start from that place. That's that's just a bit more real. That's so cool. So would you ever say, because I know people will ask, you know, what are the most compatible signs? I don't feel like we do that right no, because um, I don't do sunshine astrology. So it's going to be based on you know, our algorithms. I think that's what's been so great and as what people really feel good about the app is that they they sort of speak for themselves in a certain way, and and I think, uh, you know, we worked really hard on creating some pretty robust algorithms that match you in these very specific, in detailed ways. So we look at Moon and Venus and Mars and Ascendant and um, are you already hearing success stories from users? Yeah, it's so funny. I just before this, they just sent me on in slack from this this guy who found his soul mate and was just like, he wrote the most amazing thing. And I was because we're just in beta, but it was going so well, and there's already hundred people and ten millions wipes. Actually there's more, I think like a hundred ten millions swipes, and you know, it's just a beta, but we're getting all this incredible feedback and working everything out and then yeah, it's pretty it's pretty exciting. And yeah, and getting feedback like that that somebody you know, found their soul mate and they're just and there were soul mates in the app. They actual their bond was a solmate level and you were like, yeah that, So are there other features based on the ability that you guys have? Are there other features you're working on? Adding in the future that will continue to kind of create new avenues in the pattern. Yeah, I always, I mean, the pattern is the core. We're not like turning into a dating app that is a feature within it, sort of like the you know, the door you can open or you can ignore it if you want. So we're always going to be improving your experience with the pattern and creating more content, and they'll be also different kinds of relationship content that you can read, you know, work, boss, coworker, family, parent, child, and I think also you know, content that supports your pattern, you know, things that can support whatever you're going through, whether it's anxiety or or depression or you know, and also making sure because we have so many people that constantly ask can you put it in our language? So localizing and other languages and very so yeah, lots, it's like it's just seven years in, but we're just getting started. So I love that. So you're obviously inspiring so many people, you know with the app and with the content and the ways that you're encouraging people to think about things. Who do you go to for inspiration? I feel really lucky. And then I have a few very dear, dear friends where I feel seen and her. I think being seen and understood as a very rare thing in life. And I feel very lucky because I have some people in my life who I talked to every day that that's inspired. Those are such rich relationships that I cherish so much. And and I have other people that I work with in different ways um that inspire me, you know, outside of just astrology, but other kinds of spiritual work and different people I connect with that are incredible. So yeah, I have to keep my own energy levels up and groundedness, and I definitely do that through the connections in my life. I love that when you think about this moment, you have achieved so much in multiple fields, multiple business verticals, if you will. When you look back at the landscape of your career, are there are there a little firework moments, the things you're kind of most proud of so far. I never think about that, chee. It's so funny when you're in things and you're doing them or you're building them, or doesn't seem like that's what's happening. You're just in the flow of your life. You're just making this like you know, making the pattern. It's not guarantee it's going to be something you're just moving and creating and living and doing. But I think the things I'm most proud of are probably things nobody will ever know about. You know, these are the small moments in life. It's the things that nourish you. Whether it's how you connect with somebody, treat somebody, or when you're authentic to yourself and you're in your integrity and those smaller moments, really, I think are the things that most proud of. I don't even know why the question came to me, but in in you know, a moment of self reflection, I thought about, you know, what are the questions I want to ask myself regularly? What are the what are the ways to check in with self when it's time to do that at the end of every week or at the end of the year, when you're thinking about the new year. And for the last couple of years, I've I've regularly asked myself, are you proud of the person that you are when no one is watching? And I am even more proud of the person I am when no one is watching than when there's eyes on me, definitely, because I know how much work I do especially for others that no one, no one publicly knows about what happens in pub look is a fraction of what it takes. And I don't know, I I'm not exactly sure why the way that you answer that question brought that to mind, but it feels kind of similar that you're saying that some of your proudest moments don't have to do with the things that might earn a public accolade, but but that we're really authentic and genuine and in integrity. Because that's it. I mean, that's the thing. Because it doesn't matter what you do outside or what you look like, it's always going to come back how you feel inside yourself. So it's gonna it's when those things are off or you're not in that. You know, it doesn't matter what you've accomplished out there. So I think, I, yeah, I relate to what you're saying, and that is how it feels. And sometimes those things even feel removed from you know. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know I was coming. I know I did this, But it's not about that, you know, day to day, it's about you commune with people and how you feel about yourself and in yourself. Yeah, and the ways that you continue to show up. Obviously, mistakes and failures in stride, we all have them. But I think if you can take them in as as lessons and continue better today than you were yesterday, I think that that's really a wonderful goal. And I think that that's why the space that you've built has been so helpful to so many people, because understanding where you exist in this larger landscape of the planet and other planets can sometimes let just enough air out of that pressure balloon to make it a little easier to get to tomorrow. Yeah, because I mean, we touched on this earlier, but we spend a lot of time. You know, we're defined by our environment and our culture and our family and parents and all that stuff, and we get very lost in that, and as you know, when we disconnect from our soul or heart or whatever it is, and we just go off trying to be something in somebody else's eyes or prove something and something which I have I did for the better part of my life, you know, And that's where I think my life changed with this and being on this path is because I couldn't live that way anymore with myself. I had to be more aligned with my integrity. And I think that's the hope of the pattern too, is I can is there something that is said or something that speaks to you that brings you back to yourself? Uh, so that life is more enjoyable and fulfilling and you feel more at peace with yourself. So when you think about that, that kind of self awareness and the propensity we all have for self improvement, for better connection to ourselves and to each other. What what are the hopes that you have for how people can or will approach those concepts? Yeah, I mean that's the design of the pattern. Was that in a way of again, without having the astrology, if we just give you this information, is there something that is going to help you in some way to surrender more into yourself and be more at peace with yourself and remind you of what you know to be true? So you can get away from the fakeness that we all go down at some point because we are all pressured by the world around us. And can that bring more peace and hope and light to your life? And can you try and connect with others on the app? Two? Because if I go look at your profile, because that's how it was for me, it was such It was so eye opening to be able to look at people's charts and see what they we're going through and who they were, and it gave me such perspective because people go through life thinking people hate them, they're judging them, when no, you don't know their whole background, you don't know what they're going through. You also don't know your pattern together, there are dynamics you're going to create insecurity when you're around that person has nothing to do with what they think or feel. So perspective was a big part of this. I wanted people to be able to understand where somebody else was coming from, not take things personally, because then again, life is just it's it's it's just a nicer experience with a little bit of perspective, because well, I think we can fall into feeling like victims of our lives and very disempowered by our lives. And the hope here really is to feel empowered through this information and understanding other people as well. I mean, it all feels incredibly inspiring, and I I wonder for people who are inspired by you or or people who look up to you, is there advice that you would give just general life advice. I think fear is a is a big I think we can all get caught in a lot of fear, you know. I know I have certain times in life, and I'd say go into that fear as much as possible, whatever your most afraid of, so that it doesn't have that power over you. And don't be so afraid of what I And I know this is like cliche, you know, it's it's not even about being afraid of failure. Don't be afraid of being you, being the most you, the most successful, the most full you. I think we can be just as afraid of that, you know, And it's almost easier to not even try. And so I think dive into whatever is the scariest, dive into whatever your fears are. Sometimes there's great relief in that. I talked about that earlier. In the times I would say the most amazing I ever felt were like moments after I had failed or failed in what I thought was failure. Because you spend so much time trying to avoid it, your whole life is defined. You know, you're such a victim of what you're so afraid of, and then you go into it and you're like, oh, it wasn't at all what I thought, and you can just move on totally. Fine, it's not what I thought, so so just be bold and go for it because you're not here forever and none of so much of this crap as an illusion, And the things you're afraid of right now, like ten years from now, you'll be like, can you believe I even cared about that? You know, none of it, None of that. A lot of the things that were most afraid of really matter in the end. And uh, and nobody nobody is thinking about you as much as you think they are, judging you as much as you think they are. That's mostly just start crazy minds judging ourselves. Yeah, everyone's too busy judging themselves to be judging you. Exactly exactly the way that you speak about things, and it feels to me like the way you encourage other people to look inward and offer themselves permission to grow. It really leans into the theme of the show, into progress into learning. And I wonder for you, what would you say today this year, this moment in your life is your work in progress so much so. The first step is being aware of some of your patterns and behavior, whether it's you're not enough for proving yourself anxieties. So I think these are things you have to contend with always they get less loud, but certainly there's perfectionism. There's there's still things I'll get hung up on, you know, And I have to let myself be and be like you're enough and it's okay. And that thing of not being enough and that you're you're lovable. I mean I'm not. It's not as extreme as it used to be, but that you are enough, That I am enough and just as I am flawless, mess and all, and I'm enough. It's the thing day to day I have to let go of and surrender all the time. H Surrender is tee. That's a big one because you surrender one part, you shatter one part of your ego and another one just grow oh this, you know, and you're like you gotta shadow that one. I think it's a it's a constant growth and strounding there. But no question, I'm not nearly as hard on myself as they used to be. But but there's still things and moments in places. One step at a time, step at a time, how about you, I think for me to really own what's working is hard. I feel like I haven't done anything in my life. Yeah, I hear you, so figuring out how to own what I have is Um, it's a big it's a big one. It is funny or the older I get that that's what's really the things that make me happy a very small thing, you know, it's just a cup of coffee, that hanging with a friend. I'm like, I don't even know. I don't even want the big things that where. I'm more like, how do I just get to like my little farms somewhere? And for me it's it's, you know, it's less about needing big things in and more about trying to figure out why I'm so proud of everybody else and I go at my own accomplishments or winds or whatever, and I guess, really that's just a signal of a larger idea. I think my work in progress is learning to love myself as well as I love others. Right, And what we spoke about in your chart classic Saturn, which I have to it doesn't matter what you Yeah, it's really that is the thing. It's it's a path of self love because it doesn't matter how many boxes you check or what you accomplish it. It will never be enough because it's that's not the point. The point is that you are enough. Yeah hoo, going deeper. Well, thank you so much for today. I'm I'm excited to get our listener feedback and find out who's using the app, who signs up for the app, and what they learned from it. It's it's a very special thing that you've built, So thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Very grateful. If you're amazing, this podcast is amazing, and thank you

Work in Progress with Sophia Bush

Work in Progress with Sophia Bush features frank, funny, personal, professional, and sometimes even  
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 264 clip(s)