Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hi everyone, we are back with the host of Inside with Jen Zaki and former White House Press Secretary Jen Zaki. There is just so much to discuss, and we're thrilled that you're joining us again for part two of this episode. Let's get into it. What do you make of the way that all these candidates get talked about, because, look, it's not lost on me. We're talking about our experiences as women in our early forties coming into our own I look at the Vice president. I mean, Kamala Harris is charismatic and accomplished. She's incredibly successful, she has done an incredible job in her position. And you know, she's fifty eight. She's young in the political world. You know, Biden is older, Trump is older, but Mitch McConnell is older. Do you it's not lost on me that we're having this sort of ageist conversation, but also a practical conversation about you know, perhaps people who are potentially having strokes, or you know, like the former president can't literally string a sentence together. I don't know, shouldn't be in charge of the country. I think these are important conversations. And I also don't I don't love the way they seem to be weaponized against certain people like the current president, in ways that they don't seem to be weaponized against the former one. It's not lost on me that there is always a sexist angle when women are elected or in powerful positions, which we see happening, you know, with the vice president all the time. How do you kind of make sense of this? You know, do we need to be concerned about these things? Do we need to be pushing back against these like? Yeah, how do you see it?

Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hi everyone, we are back with the host of Inside with Jen Zaki and former White House Press Secretary Jen Zaki. There is just so much to discuss, and we're thrilled that you're joining us again for part two of this episode. Let's get into it. What do you make of the way that all these candidates get talked about, because, look, it's not lost on me. We're talking about our experiences as women in our early forties coming into our own I look at the Vice president. I mean, Kamala Harris is charismatic and accomplished. She's incredibly successful, she has done an incredible job in her position. And you know, she's fifty eight. She's young in the political world. You know, Biden is older, Trump is older, but Mitch McConnell is older. Do you it's not lost on me that we're having this sort of ageist conversation, but also a practical conversation about you know, perhaps people who are potentially having strokes, or you know, like the former president can't literally string a sentence together. I don't know, shouldn't be in charge of the country. I think these are important conversations. And I also don't I don't love the way they seem to be weaponized against certain people like the current president, in ways that they don't seem to be weaponized against the former one. It's not lost on me that there is always a sexist angle when women are elected or in powerful positions, which we see happening, you know, with the vice president all the time. How do you kind of make sense of this? You know, do we need to be concerned about these things? Do we need to be pushing back against these like? Yeah, how do you see it?

I mean, you know, I think, first of all, like call it what it is. And the Trump maga world has been very effective and painting using Joe Biden's age, which, again, just to put it in terms people might understand, Joe Biden would have been a senior when Donald Trump was a freshman in college. I mean, they are not They're like the same age, They're the same god inside. And Donald Trump even said age is not a thing. He's even said that, of course not because he is in his late seventies. But they have been effective in making the age issue, which they've made an issue about being senile, about not being up for the job, and that is where it has become ingrained and a certain faction of the public. I worked for the man for two years. I haven't worked for him in a year. He is very much with it and very much running the country, and like we're organizing Europe to deal with the war in Ukraine and very much moving legislation forward and negotiating with people. Yeah, he's incredible that that is what he's doing. The vice president piece, again, we're gonna call it what it is. Is what when this comes from white ring circles, which a lot of it has. They are basically saying Joe Biden is old and senile. So there's that, and he may die, which again that's morbid and crazy, but that's what they're trying to He may die. You may not find him offensive, but he may not be around that long. And guess who's in charge if he dies? A black woman. I mean, that's what it is. So it's it is. You know, she is obviously a historic vice president. She would not be getting the level of venom if she were not a black woman. I think we can that's pretty clear.

I mean, you know, I think, first of all, like call it what it is. And the Trump maga world has been very effective and painting using Joe Biden's age, which, again, just to put it in terms people might understand, Joe Biden would have been a senior when Donald Trump was a freshman in college. I mean, they are not They're like the same age, They're the same god inside. And Donald Trump even said age is not a thing. He's even said that, of course not because he is in his late seventies. But they have been effective in making the age issue, which they've made an issue about being senile, about not being up for the job, and that is where it has become ingrained and a certain faction of the public. I worked for the man for two years. I haven't worked for him in a year. He is very much with it and very much running the country, and like we're organizing Europe to deal with the war in Ukraine and very much moving legislation forward and negotiating with people. Yeah, he's incredible that that is what he's doing. The vice president piece, again, we're gonna call it what it is. Is what when this comes from white ring circles, which a lot of it has. They are basically saying Joe Biden is old and senile. So there's that, and he may die, which again that's morbid and crazy, but that's what they're trying to He may die. You may not find him offensive, but he may not be around that long. And guess who's in charge if he dies? A black woman. I mean, that's what it is. So it's it is. You know, she is obviously a historic vice president. She would not be getting the level of venom if she were not a black woman. I think we can that's pretty clear.

Yeah, sexism and racism together there all day.

Yeah, sexism and racism together there all day.

Yeah, and I also think there has been a bit of a delay in recognizing what she has been doing out there in the country and talking about a range of issues, specifically abortion rates in a lot of communities, and I think she'll be probably, I think, a pretty powerful force on the campaign trail. We'll see, but that's what I suspect.

Yeah, and I also think there has been a bit of a delay in recognizing what she has been doing out there in the country and talking about a range of issues, specifically abortion rates in a lot of communities, and I think she'll be probably, I think, a pretty powerful force on the campaign trail. We'll see, but that's what I suspect.

So knowing what you know, again, as an expert, if somebody at home is listening to us talk going, I'm kind of embarrassed to admit I don't really know what she's been doing, Like what has the Vice president been doing? What would be your rapid fire overview of her accomplishments, because I know we listed a lot of the accomplishments of the administration, and you know, you just touched on one that Vice President Harris really made women's and pregnant people's reproductive autonomy a number one campaign issue for Biden. Harris, she really pushed it. It's been an incredible thing to watch and to support. You know, I was lucky enough to interview her at an event at Brinmar College just this past October. She has centered our experiences as women in the administration. But you know, if you were going to give like an intro to her before she came on your show next week, like, what would be the things you would highlight?

So knowing what you know, again, as an expert, if somebody at home is listening to us talk going, I'm kind of embarrassed to admit I don't really know what she's been doing, Like what has the Vice president been doing? What would be your rapid fire overview of her accomplishments, because I know we listed a lot of the accomplishments of the administration, and you know, you just touched on one that Vice President Harris really made women's and pregnant people's reproductive autonomy a number one campaign issue for Biden. Harris, she really pushed it. It's been an incredible thing to watch and to support. You know, I was lucky enough to interview her at an event at Brinmar College just this past October. She has centered our experiences as women in the administration. But you know, if you were going to give like an intro to her before she came on your show next week, like, what would be the things you would highlight?

Well, I'm going to get there in a second. But I think it's important to remember presidents and vice presidents don't run on separate tickets, right, They run together. Their accomplishments are together. So the president, no matter who it is, including when Barack Obama was president Joe Biden was vice president, gets the credit for anything that goes well. Right, vice president is always a part of that. They are partners in the effort. That's important for people to a really good point to make people Also, maybe this will be different. Don't historically vote on who the vice president is. It's just not it's not typically a big factor. Maybe this year will be different. Okay, that is side to mention that.

Well, I'm going to get there in a second. But I think it's important to remember presidents and vice presidents don't run on separate tickets, right, They run together. Their accomplishments are together. So the president, no matter who it is, including when Barack Obama was president Joe Biden was vice president, gets the credit for anything that goes well. Right, vice president is always a part of that. They are partners in the effort. That's important for people to a really good point to make people Also, maybe this will be different. Don't historically vote on who the vice president is. It's just not it's not typically a big factor. Maybe this year will be different. Okay, that is side to mention that.

It's a good little nugget. Yes, What I.

It's a good little nugget. Yes, What I.

Think that she has done is a couple of things. One, she has played a very important role in getting out there since the DABS decision and really engaging directly with legislators, with women, with activists, young people about what this decision means, what can be done, and how we move forward and what we can do to address it and protect ourselves. She also was just named as a co chair of this kind of gun violence initiative. This is another issue she cares very very deeply about. She's worked on a number of the different components and implementation of it, as some of these bills that they have passed together that people care deeply about, including the expansion of broadband access, making sure kids have access to clean drinking water. We're all for that. That is not an easy thing to do or get done and accomplish, and she's been a part of the implementation of that and making sure that is done. You know. She's also a person who is in the room for every meeting the president has about immigration policy, a national security issue, whatever it may be, just as Joe Biden was for Barack Obama. And anything that goes well is because of the work of both of them. And that's what I think it's important for people to remember. And thinks like go poorly too. I mean, it's you know that happens as well.

Think that she has done is a couple of things. One, she has played a very important role in getting out there since the DABS decision and really engaging directly with legislators, with women, with activists, young people about what this decision means, what can be done, and how we move forward and what we can do to address it and protect ourselves. She also was just named as a co chair of this kind of gun violence initiative. This is another issue she cares very very deeply about. She's worked on a number of the different components and implementation of it, as some of these bills that they have passed together that people care deeply about, including the expansion of broadband access, making sure kids have access to clean drinking water. We're all for that. That is not an easy thing to do or get done and accomplish, and she's been a part of the implementation of that and making sure that is done. You know. She's also a person who is in the room for every meeting the president has about immigration policy, a national security issue, whatever it may be, just as Joe Biden was for Barack Obama. And anything that goes well is because of the work of both of them. And that's what I think it's important for people to remember. And thinks like go poorly too. I mean, it's you know that happens as well.

Sure, but I think that's such a good point that you have to remember who's got the ability to speak in those rooms. And uh, you know, it's funny. I think back to the first time I ever saw President Obama, you know, when he was still an elected official, you know, an elected state official, way back in the mid two thousands, when he went on Oprah for the first time. And then I think about, you know, her influence similarly to yours in my life, these women who I just want to hear what you have to say about everything every day, And I think about listening to Oprah's podcast, and I never knew I would get some of my best, you know, gender equity life advice from a Catholic nun. But here we are this old, this older famous nun named Sister Joan, who talks about how, you know, feminist equity is the cause of her life because despite what people might think about that in the Catholic Church, she said, you know, you can't expect people with fifty percent of the information to make one hundred percent good decisions. And by nature, we have a different life experience than the men were in rooms with. And by nature, the experience Kamala Harris brings into a room is different than Joe Biden's. And you know, they've proven this in c suites at corporations around the world. The more diverse perspectives you have in the room. The better your company does, the better your ROI is, the better your ideas are. And I I think we see in these historic achievements of this administration, we see this diverse input in these rooms where it happens, yes, making this this work.

Sure, but I think that's such a good point that you have to remember who's got the ability to speak in those rooms. And uh, you know, it's funny. I think back to the first time I ever saw President Obama, you know, when he was still an elected official, you know, an elected state official, way back in the mid two thousands, when he went on Oprah for the first time. And then I think about, you know, her influence similarly to yours in my life, these women who I just want to hear what you have to say about everything every day, And I think about listening to Oprah's podcast, and I never knew I would get some of my best, you know, gender equity life advice from a Catholic nun. But here we are this old, this older famous nun named Sister Joan, who talks about how, you know, feminist equity is the cause of her life because despite what people might think about that in the Catholic Church, she said, you know, you can't expect people with fifty percent of the information to make one hundred percent good decisions. And by nature, we have a different life experience than the men were in rooms with. And by nature, the experience Kamala Harris brings into a room is different than Joe Biden's. And you know, they've proven this in c suites at corporations around the world. The more diverse perspectives you have in the room. The better your company does, the better your ROI is, the better your ideas are. And I I think we see in these historic achievements of this administration, we see this diverse input in these rooms where it happens, yes, making this this work.

That is such a good point, absolutely true. I feel like something they should be saying. Maybe maybe they're listening right now.

That is such a good point, absolutely true. I feel like something they should be saying. Maybe maybe they're listening right now.

I'll go anytime, I'll brainstorm in the office. Here you go.

I'll go anytime, I'll brainstorm in the office. Here you go.

And and you know, I think when I hired the press team at the for for Biden, it was a huge priority for the team to be very diverse, and and it was like, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna meet that bar and that's important to to have different faces, different voice at the table. What is very true, and it's not just through data, is from experience I can tell you, is that that makes the team better and stronger. And you know, when I worked for I mean, I run perhaps Barack Obama. I was the only female spokesperson in the press office for the first year or so, right, it was predominantly white men. Not we're all great in their own right, but that was just like who was in those jobs. You know, our team was I think it was like maybe we had two white men on our team. I mean, it was just it changed a lot over the course of years, because because it was a priority, but because also it made the team stronger and made the conversations better and made people it Having people at the table means people bring their own life experience to it. It makes you think about things in a different expansive way, and that's just so important. It's so important because it makes us all better what we do as communicators.

And and you know, I think when I hired the press team at the for for Biden, it was a huge priority for the team to be very diverse, and and it was like, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna meet that bar and that's important to to have different faces, different voice at the table. What is very true, and it's not just through data, is from experience I can tell you, is that that makes the team better and stronger. And you know, when I worked for I mean, I run perhaps Barack Obama. I was the only female spokesperson in the press office for the first year or so, right, it was predominantly white men. Not we're all great in their own right, but that was just like who was in those jobs. You know, our team was I think it was like maybe we had two white men on our team. I mean, it was just it changed a lot over the course of years, because because it was a priority, but because also it made the team stronger and made the conversations better and made people it Having people at the table means people bring their own life experience to it. It makes you think about things in a different expansive way, and that's just so important. It's so important because it makes us all better what we do as communicators.

So I'm curious about that because we know the way that landscapes have been changing, we know the way that rooms have been diversifying. We see the difference in the staffing photos from the current administration to the last one. We know that we all do better when diverse perspectives are included in decision making, including people who look like us. By the way, like two white women said on a podcast, I wonder then, why we see this repeat panic in society. You saw the backlash of you know, far right, alt right, white supremacist violent groups when Barack Obama was elected. We're talking about what Kamala Harris faces as you know, a black woman in the second highest position in the land. We see at this moment, all of this far right pushback against generations of progress for you know, gender equity, for racial equity, for equal rights, for the rights of the LGBTQ plus community, for bodily autonomy, for our reproductive autonomy. Why why do you think the right is pushing back so hard? Why to your earlier point, why are grown people who should be prioritizing, you know, our community safety and health going after trans kids. Why do you think the pushback is this intense? Are people just that scared of diversifying perspectives?

So I'm curious about that because we know the way that landscapes have been changing, we know the way that rooms have been diversifying. We see the difference in the staffing photos from the current administration to the last one. We know that we all do better when diverse perspectives are included in decision making, including people who look like us. By the way, like two white women said on a podcast, I wonder then, why we see this repeat panic in society. You saw the backlash of you know, far right, alt right, white supremacist violent groups when Barack Obama was elected. We're talking about what Kamala Harris faces as you know, a black woman in the second highest position in the land. We see at this moment, all of this far right pushback against generations of progress for you know, gender equity, for racial equity, for equal rights, for the rights of the LGBTQ plus community, for bodily autonomy, for our reproductive autonomy. Why why do you think the right is pushing back so hard? Why to your earlier point, why are grown people who should be prioritizing, you know, our community safety and health going after trans kids. Why do you think the pushback is this intense? Are people just that scared of diversifying perspectives?

Yeah, I think that's a part of it. I mean, look in a big part of it. I mean, Rupert Murdoch just announced, right, he's stepping down. And I'm using this example because I do think that the creation, the origin of the right wing ecosystem is part of his legacy. And I don't need that in a complimentary way, you know. I Mean it all started you go back to kind of of the Iraq War and this kind of fear that was created by the Fox News apparatus even back then, right that all Muslims might be terrorists. I mean, that was their basic theme, right, and then it evolved into well, Barack Obama's a Muslim, and remember Muslims are all terrorists, right, And then it was like, oh, okay, Muslims people who are brown, and then there's you should be scared of everybody coming across the border. And it was kind of this like creation of this fear of the other people who are not traditionally white Christian, right. And I'm not suggesting for any haters out there, I know you always come and find me that, like white Christians are all evil at all. I'm white, I would grow grow up Catholic. I just mean it was this creation of anyone who didn't look like you or people in your neighborhood was dangerous, and that fear was profitable, the exclusionary other, and that fear was profitable and it still is. So the other has evolved. It is immigrants, it is trans people, it is people who are different in any way, shape or form, and that is profitable. So it's like, if you were privately having dinner with some of these people who were producing all these segments, would they think this. I don't know, maybe not. I have no idea, but it is a business model and that is part of what's scary about it.

Yeah, I think that's a part of it. I mean, look in a big part of it. I mean, Rupert Murdoch just announced, right, he's stepping down. And I'm using this example because I do think that the creation, the origin of the right wing ecosystem is part of his legacy. And I don't need that in a complimentary way, you know. I Mean it all started you go back to kind of of the Iraq War and this kind of fear that was created by the Fox News apparatus even back then, right that all Muslims might be terrorists. I mean, that was their basic theme, right, and then it evolved into well, Barack Obama's a Muslim, and remember Muslims are all terrorists, right, And then it was like, oh, okay, Muslims people who are brown, and then there's you should be scared of everybody coming across the border. And it was kind of this like creation of this fear of the other people who are not traditionally white Christian, right. And I'm not suggesting for any haters out there, I know you always come and find me that, like white Christians are all evil at all. I'm white, I would grow grow up Catholic. I just mean it was this creation of anyone who didn't look like you or people in your neighborhood was dangerous, and that fear was profitable, the exclusionary other, and that fear was profitable and it still is. So the other has evolved. It is immigrants, it is trans people, it is people who are different in any way, shape or form, and that is profitable. So it's like, if you were privately having dinner with some of these people who were producing all these segments, would they think this. I don't know, maybe not. I have no idea, but it is a business model and that is part of what's scary about it.

And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy and I think you will too. Do you think that that business model understanding that it's business over reason, over fact, over moral care for our neighbor. Do you think that's why people are really frustrated with the hypocrisy that we see in Washington, particularly on the right, because the right screams judgment about a whole lot of things, and then they do all of those things and then say, that's not what we're doing. It's it's wild. Why do you think that we have a whole subset of our political system that sees themselves held to a different standard than the one they demand the rest of the country meet.

And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy and I think you will too. Do you think that that business model understanding that it's business over reason, over fact, over moral care for our neighbor. Do you think that's why people are really frustrated with the hypocrisy that we see in Washington, particularly on the right, because the right screams judgment about a whole lot of things, and then they do all of those things and then say, that's not what we're doing. It's it's wild. Why do you think that we have a whole subset of our political system that sees themselves held to a different standard than the one they demand the rest of the country meet.

Yeah, I think that's part of it, because in many ways, the majority of people are the other you know, in this country almost I mean, it's becoming that way right. I also think it's combined with this frustration with the absolute dysfunction of Washington right now. And you know, the objective of some of the most powerful voices here. Their objective is like not to got not to debate about how to healthcare, how to provide healthcare, or like who should get tax cuts. It's like they just want to shut it all down and burn it all down. Yeah, to some degree, that's their goal. That's it. That's the whole thing that I don't know that people digest it exactly in that way, but that is there's a feeling of like dysfunction and like what are these people doing? Right?

Yeah, I think that's part of it, because in many ways, the majority of people are the other you know, in this country almost I mean, it's becoming that way right. I also think it's combined with this frustration with the absolute dysfunction of Washington right now. And you know, the objective of some of the most powerful voices here. Their objective is like not to got not to debate about how to healthcare, how to provide healthcare, or like who should get tax cuts. It's like they just want to shut it all down and burn it all down. Yeah, to some degree, that's their goal. That's it. That's the whole thing that I don't know that people digest it exactly in that way, but that is there's a feeling of like dysfunction and like what are these people doing? Right?

Okay, so what are they doing? Because by the way, we're we're you know, we have an impending government shut down? Cost Yeah, like what does that even mean? You know, I'm reading all about these things and looking at how every government shutdown that's happened in the last fifty years has happened at the best of the Republicans, but it costs so much money, Like you know, the last one I think they were saying was like an eight billion dollar cost, and people defaulted on loans and you know, cancer research programs halted and all of these things that are just horrible. Jen tell us, like, why why do they want to shut the government down? What is a government shut down for the folks at home even really mean like incrementally? And how could anyone think this is a good idea?

Okay, so what are they doing? Because by the way, we're we're you know, we have an impending government shut down? Cost Yeah, like what does that even mean? You know, I'm reading all about these things and looking at how every government shutdown that's happened in the last fifty years has happened at the best of the Republicans, but it costs so much money, Like you know, the last one I think they were saying was like an eight billion dollar cost, and people defaulted on loans and you know, cancer research programs halted and all of these things that are just horrible. Jen tell us, like, why why do they want to shut the government down? What is a government shut down for the folks at home even really mean like incrementally? And how could anyone think this is a good idea?

Well, it's crazy. There's nothing good about a government shutdown, So let me start there. It's not good. It means for as long as it lasts, and the longer it lasts, the more damaging it could it would be to the economy to your point, But for as long as it lasts, members of the military won't be paid, people who are inspecting food won't be paid, cancer research will be halted. Nobody's going to renew your passport. I mean, you know, these people won't be paid during this period of time. They will retroactively be paid. But given the number of people who can't afford that, including many public servants, it's kind of a Obviously, it's a hugely scary thing for many people across the country, and it is going to have impacts on people who even don't work in government.

Well, it's crazy. There's nothing good about a government shutdown, So let me start there. It's not good. It means for as long as it lasts, and the longer it lasts, the more damaging it could it would be to the economy to your point, But for as long as it lasts, members of the military won't be paid, people who are inspecting food won't be paid, cancer research will be halted. Nobody's going to renew your passport. I mean, you know, these people won't be paid during this period of time. They will retroactively be paid. But given the number of people who can't afford that, including many public servants, it's kind of a Obviously, it's a hugely scary thing for many people across the country, and it is going to have impacts on people who even don't work in government.

What are we, the voters, supposed to do, because you see the numbers, most people don't agree with any of this. Everybody thinks Washington's broken. So what can what do you think we can do to encourage change? Like, what do we do here?

What are we, the voters, supposed to do, because you see the numbers, most people don't agree with any of this. Everybody thinks Washington's broken. So what can what do you think we can do to encourage change? Like, what do we do here?

I mean, you know, part of it, which isn't very satisfying in this moment, is definitely exercising your right to vote. That is the voice that every citizen has right. Everyone is busy in this country. I understand and believe that. I mean, my job is to stay up to date on these things, and I even find it sometimes like there's a lot happening, but it is like nowhere your member of Congress stands. Do you support that? Do you have fiships with that? I mean, that is what a democracy, That's how a democracy is supposed to work. Maybe you're proud of what they're doing, maybe you wish they'd be more courageous, maybe you're opposed to it. This is this is where you can kind of have your voice heard. But you know what's hard and challenging is that because people are so busy, it's like I don't know, like do people even know that the Republicans are in charge of the House. I think a lot of people do. But like, if the government shuts down, typically in the past, it's becomes everybody's fault and there's not a differentiator politically. So it's obviously bad for the country and it's bad for the functioning of our society. It's also not good politically for anyone for the government to shut down. So it's like it's a lose lose lose, as they say, Yeah, something.

I mean, you know, part of it, which isn't very satisfying in this moment, is definitely exercising your right to vote. That is the voice that every citizen has right. Everyone is busy in this country. I understand and believe that. I mean, my job is to stay up to date on these things, and I even find it sometimes like there's a lot happening, but it is like nowhere your member of Congress stands. Do you support that? Do you have fiships with that? I mean, that is what a democracy, That's how a democracy is supposed to work. Maybe you're proud of what they're doing, maybe you wish they'd be more courageous, maybe you're opposed to it. This is this is where you can kind of have your voice heard. But you know what's hard and challenging is that because people are so busy, it's like I don't know, like do people even know that the Republicans are in charge of the House. I think a lot of people do. But like, if the government shuts down, typically in the past, it's becomes everybody's fault and there's not a differentiator politically. So it's obviously bad for the country and it's bad for the functioning of our society. It's also not good politically for anyone for the government to shut down. So it's like it's a lose lose lose, as they say, Yeah, something.

I will say has really inspired me because a lot of the folks who just want to burn it down do it for self serving interests, right, Like they want to sell books and they want to have more Twitter followers, and they want to do whatever they want to do. And I've been really inspired during all of this mayhem coming out of the extreme right in Washington, seeing the way labor has organized this summer and seeing the flight attendance unions coming to protest, with the writers' guilds and with Sagastra and the actors, and with Iotze our crew members, and with you know, the the ups workers and drivers. Folks are saying enough, like the structures of power aren't working for us, and they're really seeing through the sort of veils of separateness and this like this hot strike summer we've been watching, I've just been like cheering all summer long, like I'm so so in for every every labor group that is organizing, and in a way, I'm really hoping that the the energy of the strikes and this sort of spirit of unity that you see permeating all of these unions, because union workers are saying, look, I may not get exactly what I need, you know, as me individual number, whatever I might be on the planet, but our union is going to win. The people are going to win. People will have better protections, people will have better healthcare. Every member of this union will benefit, regardless of how much I personally stand, you know, to gain a little or a lot. Yeah, And I really hope that that labor energy can kind of get into our elected officials a bit more where they realize, oh, right, our job is to essentially unionize the country. It's to work on behalf of the people, not our little individual selves. Wouldn't that be nice?

I will say has really inspired me because a lot of the folks who just want to burn it down do it for self serving interests, right, Like they want to sell books and they want to have more Twitter followers, and they want to do whatever they want to do. And I've been really inspired during all of this mayhem coming out of the extreme right in Washington, seeing the way labor has organized this summer and seeing the flight attendance unions coming to protest, with the writers' guilds and with Sagastra and the actors, and with Iotze our crew members, and with you know, the the ups workers and drivers. Folks are saying enough, like the structures of power aren't working for us, and they're really seeing through the sort of veils of separateness and this like this hot strike summer we've been watching, I've just been like cheering all summer long, like I'm so so in for every every labor group that is organizing, and in a way, I'm really hoping that the the energy of the strikes and this sort of spirit of unity that you see permeating all of these unions, because union workers are saying, look, I may not get exactly what I need, you know, as me individual number, whatever I might be on the planet, but our union is going to win. The people are going to win. People will have better protections, people will have better healthcare. Every member of this union will benefit, regardless of how much I personally stand, you know, to gain a little or a lot. Yeah, And I really hope that that labor energy can kind of get into our elected officials a bit more where they realize, oh, right, our job is to essentially unionize the country. It's to work on behalf of the people, not our little individual selves. Wouldn't that be nice?

It's so true, and I think it's so interesting. I was listening to kind of I think it was on NPR kind of a story about the writer's strike and where things stood earlier this week, and it like struck me in the car. I mean, this is obvious and you've lived it. It's like that is about something, right, The UAW strike is about something. It's like people getting paid what they deserve and paid what they have earned. In Washington, these negotiations are about anything. And sometimes I think this small wing of the right. I say small wing of the right because I don't think it's as hopeless as everybody thinks it is. I think it's like a very problematic crew. They like to pretend or portray themselves as like the truth tellers, these like oppressed. Well I say that because I think it's important to differentiate. Like they are not the writer striking, they are not the union workers. Like these people, I don't know who to compare them to. But it's not about anything. They're trying to destroy the industry they work in, right, They're not trying to get paid for what they deserve so that their industry can continue functioning. And there's a big difference.

It's so true, and I think it's so interesting. I was listening to kind of I think it was on NPR kind of a story about the writer's strike and where things stood earlier this week, and it like struck me in the car. I mean, this is obvious and you've lived it. It's like that is about something, right, The UAW strike is about something. It's like people getting paid what they deserve and paid what they have earned. In Washington, these negotiations are about anything. And sometimes I think this small wing of the right. I say small wing of the right because I don't think it's as hopeless as everybody thinks it is. I think it's like a very problematic crew. They like to pretend or portray themselves as like the truth tellers, these like oppressed. Well I say that because I think it's important to differentiate. Like they are not the writer striking, they are not the union workers. Like these people, I don't know who to compare them to. But it's not about anything. They're trying to destroy the industry they work in, right, They're not trying to get paid for what they deserve so that their industry can continue functioning. And there's a big difference.

Right, Well, they seem to want to model themselves after oligarchies that we see in other parts of the world, where it's just about who has more as the as the individual person, and you get to compete in these little zones, and I don't quite understand it. I'm like, listen, if that's what you want, Like, okay, move to Russia and be friends with Putin. But like, this is America. We were built on the American dream. We were built on the notion of democracy. We were built on ideologies that, however flawed and their execution, are really and truly about a democratic republic where everybody is supported and has a shot and you don't have to like that, but maybe don't try to represent it in the halls of government. If it's not your thing, go do something else.

Right, Well, they seem to want to model themselves after oligarchies that we see in other parts of the world, where it's just about who has more as the as the individual person, and you get to compete in these little zones, and I don't quite understand it. I'm like, listen, if that's what you want, Like, okay, move to Russia and be friends with Putin. But like, this is America. We were built on the American dream. We were built on the notion of democracy. We were built on ideologies that, however flawed and their execution, are really and truly about a democratic republic where everybody is supported and has a shot and you don't have to like that, but maybe don't try to represent it in the halls of government. If it's not your thing, go do something else.

Well, I also think that there's a version of this that is their business model. Not to be gross about it, but like the more that they are obstructionists, right, and the more that they are outrageous, the more money they can raise, the more they can get on Fox Prime Time.

Well, I also think that there's a version of this that is their business model. Not to be gross about it, but like the more that they are obstructionists, right, and the more that they are outrageous, the more money they can raise, the more they can get on Fox Prime Time.

Well, they're building brands off of it.

Well, they're building brands off of it.

They're building brands, and so it's gross because it's like not for good, but that's what they're incentivized to do.

They're building brands, and so it's gross because it's like not for good, but that's what they're incentivized to do.

Yeah, yeah, I'm curious watching all of this because, look, I know how it affects me as a person, as an advocate, and I know how passionate about it you are and how passionate about getting the truth out there you are. But you know, you mentioned earlier thinking about your eight year old self and watching that younger version of your self mirrored and your eight year old daughter, and you know you are a mother of two children, Like as a parent, does this stuff ever just overwhelm you or does the world that you will be passing to your kids? You know the promise of that, and perhaps the danger that that future is in. Now, does it make you want to double down on the fight? Is it a little bit of both? Is it like terrifying and inspiring?

Yeah, yeah, I'm curious watching all of this because, look, I know how it affects me as a person, as an advocate, and I know how passionate about it you are and how passionate about getting the truth out there you are. But you know, you mentioned earlier thinking about your eight year old self and watching that younger version of your self mirrored and your eight year old daughter, and you know you are a mother of two children, Like as a parent, does this stuff ever just overwhelm you or does the world that you will be passing to your kids? You know the promise of that, and perhaps the danger that that future is in. Now, does it make you want to double down on the fight? Is it a little bit of both? Is it like terrifying and inspiring?

You know, I think it's about I always try to think of the right way to not shade them from what's happening, or you know what I mean, but how to expose them to it in a way that feels in some way age appropriate. And I you know, we didn't this wasn't on a part of the interview on air, but when I interviewed Hillary Clinton a week ago, we talked about this a little bit afterwards, just about because her granddaughter is eight, my daughters eight, and just about exposing kids at that age to the realities to some degree of the world. And I don't mean like let's watch murder documentaries, not that, But you know, I watched my daughter watched a little bit of the Zelensky interview on sixty Minutes with me, and she was kind of asking questions just like what's going on there? Why why do they want that more of that country? And you know, we kind of guy covered her eyes when there was something that was scary. But I try to think a lot about how to expose them to a world that's bigger than them, because I do think that that's something that we can share with our kids in doses that is acceptable, if that makes sense, you know. But you know, my son, it's so funny because I don't even you don't always know like where they get things from. When I was at the White House, he thought I worked at the Honda dealership, which sounds very funny and random. I mean, he was like three and four. He also loves cars. It was like a big compliment. But lately he's been saying, Mommy and Donald Trump hate each other. First of all, I don't know where that comes from. Second, like, we don't use the word hate in our house. Third, like I don't feel hate. Like also he doesn't. I mean I can't even imagine. I was like, he doesn't think about me, you know, but I mean think about you a lot. Well, who knows, But there are ways that some of the stuff is like some of the vitriol out there. I mean he's five, right, Yeah, it's like I'm not talking about Donald Trump in my house. Like I'm like being quizzed on which monster truck I like on a particular day. And that's very stressful because I can only remember so many of their names. But somehow it's like they consume it, you know, and so it's like, how do you introduce it to them in a way that's about values and not about like hate or vitriol, but about like what we believe in. Like I believe in I say, daddy, and I believe that people should have access to healthcare. And I mean I met my husband, as you know, in democratic politics, so like you know, I can be a spokesperson, but I do think a lot about like what to expose them to and when. I mean, they are kids growing up in a suburb of Washington, d C. But I also don't want them to like go around saying they hate anyone, including like you know, politicians I find to be abhorrent so well.

You know, I think it's about I always try to think of the right way to not shade them from what's happening, or you know what I mean, but how to expose them to it in a way that feels in some way age appropriate. And I you know, we didn't this wasn't on a part of the interview on air, but when I interviewed Hillary Clinton a week ago, we talked about this a little bit afterwards, just about because her granddaughter is eight, my daughters eight, and just about exposing kids at that age to the realities to some degree of the world. And I don't mean like let's watch murder documentaries, not that, But you know, I watched my daughter watched a little bit of the Zelensky interview on sixty Minutes with me, and she was kind of asking questions just like what's going on there? Why why do they want that more of that country? And you know, we kind of guy covered her eyes when there was something that was scary. But I try to think a lot about how to expose them to a world that's bigger than them, because I do think that that's something that we can share with our kids in doses that is acceptable, if that makes sense, you know. But you know, my son, it's so funny because I don't even you don't always know like where they get things from. When I was at the White House, he thought I worked at the Honda dealership, which sounds very funny and random. I mean, he was like three and four. He also loves cars. It was like a big compliment. But lately he's been saying, Mommy and Donald Trump hate each other. First of all, I don't know where that comes from. Second, like, we don't use the word hate in our house. Third, like I don't feel hate. Like also he doesn't. I mean I can't even imagine. I was like, he doesn't think about me, you know, but I mean think about you a lot. Well, who knows, But there are ways that some of the stuff is like some of the vitriol out there. I mean he's five, right, Yeah, it's like I'm not talking about Donald Trump in my house. Like I'm like being quizzed on which monster truck I like on a particular day. And that's very stressful because I can only remember so many of their names. But somehow it's like they consume it, you know, and so it's like, how do you introduce it to them in a way that's about values and not about like hate or vitriol, but about like what we believe in. Like I believe in I say, daddy, and I believe that people should have access to healthcare. And I mean I met my husband, as you know, in democratic politics, so like you know, I can be a spokesperson, but I do think a lot about like what to expose them to and when. I mean, they are kids growing up in a suburb of Washington, d C. But I also don't want them to like go around saying they hate anyone, including like you know, politicians I find to be abhorrent so well.

And I imagine not only are you trying to figure out how to inform them without overwhelming them, but that goes beyond Washington, that goes into the news cycle in general. Right. I mean, we live as a privilege in the most connected information era of all time, but I think it can also really feel like an onslaught. You know, there's these huge news cycles on these important stories to your point talking to kids about what's happening in Ukraine, watching the earthquake in Morocco, the flooding in Libya, the fires in Maui, you know, the fires in Canada, tropical storms off the East coast. Like everything feels so dialed up, and there's tragedy and suffering everywhere, and not just for kids, but I mean even for us. You know, you said it, your job is the news. How how do you think we can maintain the sort of like drum beat and presence for these important stories, for these you know, people around the world who need our support and not feel like everything is crumbling around us all the time. Is there is there a balance that working in the news you have found works for you.

And I imagine not only are you trying to figure out how to inform them without overwhelming them, but that goes beyond Washington, that goes into the news cycle in general. Right. I mean, we live as a privilege in the most connected information era of all time, but I think it can also really feel like an onslaught. You know, there's these huge news cycles on these important stories to your point talking to kids about what's happening in Ukraine, watching the earthquake in Morocco, the flooding in Libya, the fires in Maui, you know, the fires in Canada, tropical storms off the East coast. Like everything feels so dialed up, and there's tragedy and suffering everywhere, and not just for kids, but I mean even for us. You know, you said it, your job is the news. How how do you think we can maintain the sort of like drum beat and presence for these important stories, for these you know, people around the world who need our support and not feel like everything is crumbling around us all the time. Is there is there a balance that working in the news you have found works for you.

Gosh, that's such a good question. I like feel like I want to phone a friend and bring my mom on who's a therapist? Oh, because it is like this time almost requires that, you know. I think one of the things that I've really tried to do, and I have not perfected this over the last couple of years, is really be conscious about being present and being present. That's important to do, and I mean present in all aspects. Right, If I'm with my kids, I want to be present in their lives. I'm imperfect at this, but like I should not be looking at what's on Twitter. I should be like playing with again Monster Trucks. It's a big dominant part of my life, Monster Trucks, or like you know, my daughter is like the star of her own musical play. So like you know that whatever she's into, and that's important. It's like carving out time to be present in your life with your kids, with your spouse or partner, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever. I think, as I've established, you can date and be with anyone you want to be with, just be present with them. But I also think that's true in work too. I mean, you know, it is about I mean, one of the things I don't remember who gave me this advice, but I thought it was so good. As I'm like learning to transition here is about being present in the conversations that you're having. Even on a television show or a podcast, you were a very present person, like you are, like a very That is hard to do. It takes focus, you know, and but it makes the conversation so much more enjoyable and so much deeper. And so I've thought a lot about that no one's perfect at being present, right. We all have moments where you just want to like endlessly scroll through Instagram and like read us magazine. I do all those things. I've like gone down the rabbit hole of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey the world. But like, but I also think it's like carving out time to be present, and that's a would be present for yourself too. You know it's time for yourself because I can't. You know. It's it's funny like someone was asking the other day, like how do you engage with people or how do you convince people to come your way who are support Trump? And like how do you discuss it at the bus stop? And I'm like, I don't. I don't make it's like at the must stop. I have no idea what people's political views are. Sometimes people will tell you or want to discuss something, but like we talk about our kids, we talk about the dogs, We talk about like the neighborhood party that's coming up. We talked about when the trash guys come in, when the leaves are coming, who's decorating their house for Halloween? You know, there are ways to connect with people that don't have to be about the things you disagree with. It doesn't mean that you're putting aside your views and your morals. It just means for me, I can't. I'm not going to debate people twenty hours a day because I would be depleted, you know. And so it's about being present and also recognizing that sometimes it's about finding connection and not finding topics to debate over.

Gosh, that's such a good question. I like feel like I want to phone a friend and bring my mom on who's a therapist? Oh, because it is like this time almost requires that, you know. I think one of the things that I've really tried to do, and I have not perfected this over the last couple of years, is really be conscious about being present and being present. That's important to do, and I mean present in all aspects. Right, If I'm with my kids, I want to be present in their lives. I'm imperfect at this, but like I should not be looking at what's on Twitter. I should be like playing with again Monster Trucks. It's a big dominant part of my life, Monster Trucks, or like you know, my daughter is like the star of her own musical play. So like you know that whatever she's into, and that's important. It's like carving out time to be present in your life with your kids, with your spouse or partner, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever. I think, as I've established, you can date and be with anyone you want to be with, just be present with them. But I also think that's true in work too. I mean, you know, it is about I mean, one of the things I don't remember who gave me this advice, but I thought it was so good. As I'm like learning to transition here is about being present in the conversations that you're having. Even on a television show or a podcast, you were a very present person, like you are, like a very That is hard to do. It takes focus, you know, and but it makes the conversation so much more enjoyable and so much deeper. And so I've thought a lot about that no one's perfect at being present, right. We all have moments where you just want to like endlessly scroll through Instagram and like read us magazine. I do all those things. I've like gone down the rabbit hole of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey the world. But like, but I also think it's like carving out time to be present, and that's a would be present for yourself too. You know it's time for yourself because I can't. You know. It's it's funny like someone was asking the other day, like how do you engage with people or how do you convince people to come your way who are support Trump? And like how do you discuss it at the bus stop? And I'm like, I don't. I don't make it's like at the must stop. I have no idea what people's political views are. Sometimes people will tell you or want to discuss something, but like we talk about our kids, we talk about the dogs, We talk about like the neighborhood party that's coming up. We talked about when the trash guys come in, when the leaves are coming, who's decorating their house for Halloween? You know, there are ways to connect with people that don't have to be about the things you disagree with. It doesn't mean that you're putting aside your views and your morals. It just means for me, I can't. I'm not going to debate people twenty hours a day because I would be depleted, you know. And so it's about being present and also recognizing that sometimes it's about finding connection and not finding topics to debate over.

Yeah. Well, and I think you know that this idea sort of keeps coming up. It's remembering that there's so much more to a human than what they do, or they believe, or how they vote. I think we're all beginning to see that you've got to vote with your humanity because if you don't, people who don't believe that anyone who's different than them deserves humanity, those are the people who get into power. So hopefully we really do see our civic engagement as a as a more human exercise of love moving forward. But yeah, yeah, I think it's wild, and I get it. You know, it's sometimes I wonder, I'm like, what do people think actors do all day?

Yeah. Well, and I think you know that this idea sort of keeps coming up. It's remembering that there's so much more to a human than what they do, or they believe, or how they vote. I think we're all beginning to see that you've got to vote with your humanity because if you don't, people who don't believe that anyone who's different than them deserves humanity, those are the people who get into power. So hopefully we really do see our civic engagement as a as a more human exercise of love moving forward. But yeah, yeah, I think it's wild, and I get it. You know, it's sometimes I wonder, I'm like, what do people think actors do all day?

Like?

Like?

Do you think I just do monologues in my house? I don't, you know, It's like people think you're debating at the bus stop. You're like, I'm not. I'm like, I'm packing, I'm making.

Do you think I just do monologues in my house? I don't, you know, It's like people think you're debating at the bus stop. You're like, I'm not. I'm like, I'm packing, I'm making.

Sure my kid has lunch, Like right, forget whether my kids leave breakfast or not. I'm like around with muffins. Yeah, you know exactly. It is. It's such an important point. Everybody is multifaceted, right, and and that is sometimes hard to digest or hard to picture, because, especially if you are a person who is in any degree of a public role, people picture you in a very specific way. Yes, like you'll really picture you like you're always on a movie, Like you're always like on a television set, right, Like you're just always like you know, and then.

Sure my kid has lunch, Like right, forget whether my kids leave breakfast or not. I'm like around with muffins. Yeah, you know exactly. It is. It's such an important point. Everybody is multifaceted, right, and and that is sometimes hard to digest or hard to picture, because, especially if you are a person who is in any degree of a public role, people picture you in a very specific way. Yes, like you'll really picture you like you're always on a movie, Like you're always like on a television set, right, Like you're just always like you know, and then.

People people think the work is very glamorous, and then people come to visit sets and within two hours they're like, I got to get out of here. This is horrible, and Mike, welcome to reality. It's always so like where I.

People people think the work is very glamorous, and then people come to visit sets and within two hours they're like, I got to get out of here. This is horrible, and Mike, welcome to reality. It's always so like where I.

Change for where I change before the show. Since I've established I wear like jeans and sneakers, like every day I change in like the hall bathroom, which is shared with like all of the organizations, and I just like throw stuff over the stall. I mean, yeah, which is fine. I'm not gonna it's just this is this is, this is. Yeah, we're lucky to do what we get to do. But yeah, but.

Change for where I change before the show. Since I've established I wear like jeans and sneakers, like every day I change in like the hall bathroom, which is shared with like all of the organizations, and I just like throw stuff over the stall. I mean, yeah, which is fine. I'm not gonna it's just this is this is, this is. Yeah, we're lucky to do what we get to do. But yeah, but.

It's like you don't have the dressing room that Jen Anison has on the Morning show. To be clear, Well that's a TV maybe.

It's like you don't have the dressing room that Jen Anison has on the Morning show. To be clear, Well that's a TV maybe.

Some people do. I just have like the bathroom stall in the hallway, which works just fine.

Some people do. I just have like the bathroom stall in the hallway, which works just fine.

Honestly, I love it. I learned I learned like back in the day as a camp counselor the good you know when you can like change under your own clothes. Oh yeah, and like I still do the camp change on set all the time. I'm like, we don't have time to go to base camp. I've never seen the inside of my own trailer, Like, you know, let's do this corner. This will be fine. Yeah, somebody somebody tossed me up like a yeah, hand me a reflector that the camera uses and I'll change behind it. I don't care.

Honestly, I love it. I learned I learned like back in the day as a camp counselor the good you know when you can like change under your own clothes. Oh yeah, and like I still do the camp change on set all the time. I'm like, we don't have time to go to base camp. I've never seen the inside of my own trailer, Like, you know, let's do this corner. This will be fine. Yeah, somebody somebody tossed me up like a yeah, hand me a reflector that the camera uses and I'll change behind it. I don't care.

It's a skill set to have exactly all.

It's a skill set to have exactly all.

Right, Well, what's coming up next? I mean, my god, two big interviews recently, you know you you mentioned you spoke to Hillary Clinton and you were speaking to Nancy Pelosi. What can viewers look forward to? What's what's what are you looking forward to.

Right, Well, what's coming up next? I mean, my god, two big interviews recently, you know you you mentioned you spoke to Hillary Clinton and you were speaking to Nancy Pelosi. What can viewers look forward to? What's what's what are you looking forward to.

Oh god, you know, one of the things I'm so excited about is just having conversations with people who are not afraid to speak their and like change the conversation, if that makes sense, And so I'm super drawn to those people. I'm also really drawn to some of the up and coming elected officials and members of Congress who people don't entirely know or they're getting to know and introducing those them to people. I also love a good hypocrisy call out, so there'll be plenty of that. But you know, we're gonna in the next couple of months, we're gonna go on the road with some more people and kind of hopefully bring their lives and what they're really like to some of our viewers. And we literally, i mean, you know where NBC is in Washington, We're just like blocks from the Capitol, so people can walk over here and come on the show. And that's my hope too. But yeah, now that we have one Monday Night shown our belts, we're just we're excited for the next one.

Oh god, you know, one of the things I'm so excited about is just having conversations with people who are not afraid to speak their and like change the conversation, if that makes sense, And so I'm super drawn to those people. I'm also really drawn to some of the up and coming elected officials and members of Congress who people don't entirely know or they're getting to know and introducing those them to people. I also love a good hypocrisy call out, so there'll be plenty of that. But you know, we're gonna in the next couple of months, we're gonna go on the road with some more people and kind of hopefully bring their lives and what they're really like to some of our viewers. And we literally, i mean, you know where NBC is in Washington, We're just like blocks from the Capitol, so people can walk over here and come on the show. And that's my hope too. But yeah, now that we have one Monday Night shown our belts, we're just we're excited for the next one.

Oh it's so cool. Well, thank you so much for taking your time.

Oh it's so cool. Well, thank you so much for taking your time.

Thank you to.

Thank you to.

Be here with us today. It's really just a thrill.

Be here with us today. It's really just a thrill.

It was a pleasure. Thank you so much.

It was a pleasure. Thank you so much.