Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress friends. I am elated to be joined by an actor, producer and activist who I look up to so much today. David o'yelowo is here on the podcast. David was born in Oxfordshire, England, to Nigerian parents. He grew up in South London and then moved back to Legos, Nigeria at the age of six, where he lived until he was thirteen before going back to London again. He studied acting at the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art and then rose to stardom in his stage performance as King Henry the Sixth in the Royal Shakespeare Companies two thousand and one productions of Shakespeare's trilogy of plays about the King. Many of you probably know him for his incredible performance as Martin Luther, King Junior in the film Selma in twenty fourteen. His resume since is nothing short of incredible. But what is really the most inspiring to me about David is his leadership scholarship for girls in his home country Nigeria. David saw a problem and decided he wanted to get to work on fixing it. Nigeria has approximately twenty million children out of school, sixty percent of whom are girls. That's over twelve million girls, making it the highest number in Africa and the second highest in the world. A frightening majority of young school age girls become victims of terrorism and gender inequality, and after the twenty sixteen kidnapping of school age girls by Bokoharam, David knew he wanted to get involved in being part of the solution. The scholarship program he launched covers full tuition, room and board, health insurance, social and emotional support, leadership development, independent academic assessments, workplace skill development, and more. They do incredible work supporting girls in Nigeria. Their first year, they started with seven students and they're currently working with forty five girls in four different places across the country. And his goals for growing a program and working toward gender equality in his home country are nothing short of inspiring. So let's get to it. I love to start when people come and join me on the show because everyone tends to be promoting something wonderful, and I know you have something wonderful to talk about. But we're still on strike, So we'll talk about it when the strike ends. But there's so much wonderful work exactly. There's so much wonderful work you do also, you know, not just on screen, but off screen, your advocacy, you know, so much of what you spend your time in platform promoting that I'm excited to talk about. But I like to go back and meet my guests before you became household names. And so if we were to rewind and meet a young David, say at eight or you know, nine years old, what were you up to, where were you living, what were you passionate about as a little boy.

Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress friends. I am elated to be joined by an actor, producer and activist who I look up to so much today. David o'yelowo is here on the podcast. David was born in Oxfordshire, England, to Nigerian parents. He grew up in South London and then moved back to Legos, Nigeria at the age of six, where he lived until he was thirteen before going back to London again. He studied acting at the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art and then rose to stardom in his stage performance as King Henry the Sixth in the Royal Shakespeare Companies two thousand and one productions of Shakespeare's trilogy of plays about the King. Many of you probably know him for his incredible performance as Martin Luther, King Junior in the film Selma in twenty fourteen. His resume since is nothing short of incredible. But what is really the most inspiring to me about David is his leadership scholarship for girls in his home country Nigeria. David saw a problem and decided he wanted to get to work on fixing it. Nigeria has approximately twenty million children out of school, sixty percent of whom are girls. That's over twelve million girls, making it the highest number in Africa and the second highest in the world. A frightening majority of young school age girls become victims of terrorism and gender inequality, and after the twenty sixteen kidnapping of school age girls by Bokoharam, David knew he wanted to get involved in being part of the solution. The scholarship program he launched covers full tuition, room and board, health insurance, social and emotional support, leadership development, independent academic assessments, workplace skill development, and more. They do incredible work supporting girls in Nigeria. Their first year, they started with seven students and they're currently working with forty five girls in four different places across the country. And his goals for growing a program and working toward gender equality in his home country are nothing short of inspiring. So let's get to it. I love to start when people come and join me on the show because everyone tends to be promoting something wonderful, and I know you have something wonderful to talk about. But we're still on strike, So we'll talk about it when the strike ends. But there's so much wonderful work exactly. There's so much wonderful work you do also, you know, not just on screen, but off screen, your advocacy, you know, so much of what you spend your time in platform promoting that I'm excited to talk about. But I like to go back and meet my guests before you became household names. And so if we were to rewind and meet a young David, say at eight or you know, nine years old, what were you up to, where were you living, what were you passionate about as a little boy.

Wow, that's a great way in At eight and nine, I was living in Lagos, Nigeria. I was actually born in the UK, but age six we moved back to Nigeria, which is where my parents were from. And at that time I was at Sin Savior's Primary School and I was a very precocious young kid, very inquisitive, very artistic, and that there was a real tension for me because I was very artistic. But Nigerian culture generally is very academic heavy.

Wow, that's a great way in At eight and nine, I was living in Lagos, Nigeria. I was actually born in the UK, but age six we moved back to Nigeria, which is where my parents were from. And at that time I was at Sin Savior's Primary School and I was a very precocious young kid, very inquisitive, very artistic, and that there was a real tension for me because I was very artistic. But Nigerian culture generally is very academic heavy.

So I could.

So I could.

Feel already my parents' desire for me to be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer. That's pretty typical for a Nigerian family, any immigrant family. Really, I could feel that pressure beginning to rise up. And my dad was my hero, so I kind of wanted to do anything I could to please him. So I think my nine year old self was sort of enjoying being someone who loved drawing and painting and I loved doing plays, but it always felt trivial compared to, you know, academia, which I was good at, but I wasn't as passionate about as as the artistic self. So that was the tension going on for me at that at that time. And I'm the eldest of three sons, and yeah, I think I spent more time than I cared to admit bullying my brothers, not not not.

Feel already my parents' desire for me to be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer. That's pretty typical for a Nigerian family, any immigrant family. Really, I could feel that pressure beginning to rise up. And my dad was my hero, so I kind of wanted to do anything I could to please him. So I think my nine year old self was sort of enjoying being someone who loved drawing and painting and I loved doing plays, but it always felt trivial compared to, you know, academia, which I was good at, but I wasn't as passionate about as as the artistic self. So that was the tension going on for me at that at that time. And I'm the eldest of three sons, and yeah, I think I spent more time than I cared to admit bullying my brothers, not not not.

Not too intensely, but you know, I was.

Not too intensely, but you know, I was.

I was very keen on establishing my my my alpha status, right.

I was very keen on establishing my my my alpha status, right.

Right, you're for you were the first pancake. You really needed to establish dominance.

Right, you're for you were the first pancake. You really needed to establish dominance.

That's that's that.

That's that's that.

Unfortunately I've I've I've grown to learn better, but at that time, I was definitely that.

Unfortunately I've I've I've grown to learn better, but at that time, I was definitely that.

Kind of kid.

Kind of kid.

Yeah that feels fair. My my best friend has two younger siblings and I'm an only so I never really had the dynamic. But she always jokes that, you know, she was in charge the first pancake joke as hers. I have to at her and she's like, you know, yeah, I was in charge. I had the most rules, but I was also the one they had to figure it all out on. So she talks about how the you know, the younger ones sort of got to benefit from the systems you helped to set up in your family.

Yeah that feels fair. My my best friend has two younger siblings and I'm an only so I never really had the dynamic. But she always jokes that, you know, she was in charge the first pancake joke as hers. I have to at her and she's like, you know, yeah, I was in charge. I had the most rules, but I was also the one they had to figure it all out on. So she talks about how the you know, the younger ones sort of got to benefit from the systems you helped to set up in your family.

I'm sure that's a definite dynamic that I experienced as a kid, and definitely as a parent as well, you know, But I would categorize what my younger brother, especially my youngest brother was experienced was being spoilt compared to me being very much kept in line, you know. Soon after my nine year old self, I ended up going to a boarding school at age eleven, and it was a military style boarding school, pretty intense, and they did not shy away from a good caning if you didn't walk within the margins. And that is not unusual in Nigeria at all, or certainly wasn't then, but I was.

I'm sure that's a definite dynamic that I experienced as a kid, and definitely as a parent as well, you know, But I would categorize what my younger brother, especially my youngest brother was experienced was being spoilt compared to me being very much kept in line, you know. Soon after my nine year old self, I ended up going to a boarding school at age eleven, and it was a military style boarding school, pretty intense, and they did not shy away from a good caning if you didn't walk within the margins. And that is not unusual in Nigeria at all, or certainly wasn't then, but I was.

I was a pretty naughty kid. It was.

I was a pretty naughty kid. It was.

It was a mixed boarding school, and I have to admit to sneaking into the girl's dorms now and again, and not to do anything crazy. It was it was it was more this sounds so letchy in a kind of a twenty twenty three context, but my my friends and I would there.

It was a mixed boarding school, and I have to admit to sneaking into the girl's dorms now and again, and not to do anything crazy. It was it was it was more this sounds so letchy in a kind of a twenty twenty three context, but my my friends and I would there.

There were a row of windows.

There were a row of windows.

Where the girls would be having their showers, and I have to admit that we would go and feast our eyes. It was a terrible thing to do if my children did the same thing and have something to say, but but yeah, it was a I was a naughty kid. I needed that cane and it certainly certainly brought me back into line.

Where the girls would be having their showers, and I have to admit that we would go and feast our eyes. It was a terrible thing to do if my children did the same thing and have something to say, but but yeah, it was a I was a naughty kid. I needed that cane and it certainly certainly brought me back into line.

So was that how you wound up going to boarding school in the first place, or or was that a decision that you made. I don't know anyone who ever went to a boarding school, so I'm sort of fascinated by the whole culture of it.

So was that how you wound up going to boarding school in the first place, or or was that a decision that you made. I don't know anyone who ever went to a boarding school, so I'm sort of fascinated by the whole culture of it.

Yeah, it was, you know, I wasn't like a naughty, naughty kid, but my parents worked very hard. You know, they were at work a lot, and I think for them having I was the only one of my three brothers that did go to boarding school, and I think it was one less kid for them to have to sort of juggle in the midst of being both full time working parents, but also my parents spent virtually every cent they made on the best possible education we could be afforded. And it was one of the best schools in Nigeria at the time, and my brothers were going to some of the best primary schools, and so it was more that it was more what are the best schools. They happened to be boarding schools because affluent Nigerians could send their kids there from all over the country, and so we actually didn't have much money, but I ended up going to school with some of the richer kids in Nigeria. So it was a weird, sort of schizophrenic upbringing of being around quite affluent kids, but going home in my holidays to a two bedroom apartment with my parents and my three brothers who were doing everything they could to keep us in these schools well.

Yeah, it was, you know, I wasn't like a naughty, naughty kid, but my parents worked very hard. You know, they were at work a lot, and I think for them having I was the only one of my three brothers that did go to boarding school, and I think it was one less kid for them to have to sort of juggle in the midst of being both full time working parents, but also my parents spent virtually every cent they made on the best possible education we could be afforded. And it was one of the best schools in Nigeria at the time, and my brothers were going to some of the best primary schools, and so it was more that it was more what are the best schools. They happened to be boarding schools because affluent Nigerians could send their kids there from all over the country, and so we actually didn't have much money, but I ended up going to school with some of the richer kids in Nigeria. So it was a weird, sort of schizophrenic upbringing of being around quite affluent kids, but going home in my holidays to a two bedroom apartment with my parents and my three brothers who were doing everything they could to keep us in these schools well.

And it's interesting that you talk about just a few years before this, knowing that you loved art and storytelling and being curious about plays, did any of the sort of spectrum of what you got to see you in your neighborhood versus what I'm sure some of these really wealthy kids experiences looked like, did that feel a bit like character study to you?

And it's interesting that you talk about just a few years before this, knowing that you loved art and storytelling and being curious about plays, did any of the sort of spectrum of what you got to see you in your neighborhood versus what I'm sure some of these really wealthy kids experiences looked like, did that feel a bit like character study to you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think I didn't realize it that I was internalizing so much of what I saw everywhere I went. But also because my parents were at work so much, the television was my nanny to a certain extent, and so I was watching so many TV shows, a lot of them from the UK or from America that were happened to be on Nigerian television, and so I was kind of raised by both American and British television in Nigeria. And Nigeria is an incredibly intense and vibrant place, and so you are literally thrust into the most spicy and intoxicating and invigorating soup of humanity in a sense. But I also, unlike black kids or even older now that I'm older, what happened to me was because I was in Nigeria during some of my formative years and everyone around me looked like me. I also didn't have what I would call a minority mentality. I everyone around me were. There was affluence, there was poverty, there was that complete spectrum of humanity. I didn't have that thing that I definitely did when we came back to the UK of going, Oh, I'm black and I'm not on posters or magazines or front and center in the stories I'm seeing on TV, and I am and this was some It wasn't like conscious, but I was suddenly in environments where everything was telling me that someone like me is on the periphery. Living in Nigeria, everyone was at the center of their own lives, and so that definitely informed how I carried myself, what the estimation of what I thought I could go on to achieve was. And then it was quite quite a culture shift moving back to the UK age thirteen, where that was definitely not the case.

I think I didn't realize it that I was internalizing so much of what I saw everywhere I went. But also because my parents were at work so much, the television was my nanny to a certain extent, and so I was watching so many TV shows, a lot of them from the UK or from America that were happened to be on Nigerian television, and so I was kind of raised by both American and British television in Nigeria. And Nigeria is an incredibly intense and vibrant place, and so you are literally thrust into the most spicy and intoxicating and invigorating soup of humanity in a sense. But I also, unlike black kids or even older now that I'm older, what happened to me was because I was in Nigeria during some of my formative years and everyone around me looked like me. I also didn't have what I would call a minority mentality. I everyone around me were. There was affluence, there was poverty, there was that complete spectrum of humanity. I didn't have that thing that I definitely did when we came back to the UK of going, Oh, I'm black and I'm not on posters or magazines or front and center in the stories I'm seeing on TV, and I am and this was some It wasn't like conscious, but I was suddenly in environments where everything was telling me that someone like me is on the periphery. Living in Nigeria, everyone was at the center of their own lives, and so that definitely informed how I carried myself, what the estimation of what I thought I could go on to achieve was. And then it was quite quite a culture shift moving back to the UK age thirteen, where that was definitely not the case.

Yeah, and such formative years for you too. I mean to move from the UK to Nigeria at six and then be there from six to thirteen, and then in that you know teenage experience where you really do begin to shift into young adulthood. To go back, I did it feel like a culture shock.

Yeah, and such formative years for you too. I mean to move from the UK to Nigeria at six and then be there from six to thirteen, and then in that you know teenage experience where you really do begin to shift into young adulthood. To go back, I did it feel like a culture shock.

It was a massive, massive culture shop on so many levels. Because even though my parents were not affluent, I had been going to these very very posh schools and then we were suddenly in the UK where financially they could not support anything of that. So we actually my mom and I and my three brothers. We moved back to Nigeria and sorry to London. My dad remained in Nigeria because he had to finish his contract at his workplace for another four years, and we were living in a halfway house. We were sort of in a hostel type of situation while we were waiting for housing, and it was just two rooms and my mom and my three brothers, and we were going to state schools, so suddenly not that level of affluence, and also kids who were talking back to the teachers, and I mean things that were just unthinkable in the environment that I had been in. Also from a royal family in Nigeria, so even though we weren't particularly well for my uncles were politicians and doctors and lawyers, and we lived on a yelloway street on the family compound for a time. So there were things like that that suddenly you're thrust into the UK. And some of it was familiar because I'd been born in the UK, but a lot of it was very, very very different, including the weather. So it was it was a culture shock that took me quite a while to get over, but you know, get over it I did.

It was a massive, massive culture shop on so many levels. Because even though my parents were not affluent, I had been going to these very very posh schools and then we were suddenly in the UK where financially they could not support anything of that. So we actually my mom and I and my three brothers. We moved back to Nigeria and sorry to London. My dad remained in Nigeria because he had to finish his contract at his workplace for another four years, and we were living in a halfway house. We were sort of in a hostel type of situation while we were waiting for housing, and it was just two rooms and my mom and my three brothers, and we were going to state schools, so suddenly not that level of affluence, and also kids who were talking back to the teachers, and I mean things that were just unthinkable in the environment that I had been in. Also from a royal family in Nigeria, so even though we weren't particularly well for my uncles were politicians and doctors and lawyers, and we lived on a yelloway street on the family compound for a time. So there were things like that that suddenly you're thrust into the UK. And some of it was familiar because I'd been born in the UK, but a lot of it was very, very very different, including the weather. So it was it was a culture shock that took me quite a while to get over, but you know, get over it I did.

And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. And in the midst of all of this, you have to tell your family you want to be an actor. So when I'm curious when it happened for you, because I remember for me, you know, my family came to the US from Italy on a boat and there was a lot of that, you know, they settled, they came through all As Island, they settled on the East coast, and there was a a lot of that, you know, big loud Italian energy in my family where you know, my uncle Raymond's like, you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer or a lawyer or a doctor like that was kind of it. And then I eventually was like, I think I want to be an artist. And I remember that, when when did you work up the courage? Because it took me until it was time to apply to college to say anything my family.

And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. And in the midst of all of this, you have to tell your family you want to be an actor. So when I'm curious when it happened for you, because I remember for me, you know, my family came to the US from Italy on a boat and there was a lot of that, you know, they settled, they came through all As Island, they settled on the East coast, and there was a a lot of that, you know, big loud Italian energy in my family where you know, my uncle Raymond's like, you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer or a lawyer or a doctor like that was kind of it. And then I eventually was like, I think I want to be an artist. And I remember that, when when did you work up the courage? Because it took me until it was time to apply to college to say anything my family.

Yeah, it was it was incremental for me. I mean, as I said, I pushed that side of myself away. Even though I loved it, it never occurred.

Yeah, it was it was incremental for me. I mean, as I said, I pushed that side of myself away. Even though I loved it, it never occurred.

To me that I would do it professionally.

To me that I would do it professionally.

So at some point I was just gonna knuckle down and be a lawyer. But I was doing youth theater, and I was doing my sculptures and my paintings and my pencil drawings, and that was all the stuff I really wanted to do. And television, as I say, was such a cataly for me. There was this show called La Law and uh, you know there there was this black lawyer in the in the middle of the show, and I was just so drawn to him, and because he was the conflation of the two things that I He was what my dad wanted me to do and what I subconsciously wanted to do, which was.

So at some point I was just gonna knuckle down and be a lawyer. But I was doing youth theater, and I was doing my sculptures and my paintings and my pencil drawings, and that was all the stuff I really wanted to do. And television, as I say, was such a cataly for me. There was this show called La Law and uh, you know there there was this black lawyer in the in the middle of the show, and I was just so drawn to him, and because he was the conflation of the two things that I He was what my dad wanted me to do and what I subconsciously wanted to do, which was.

The acting component.

The acting component.

So I became obsessed with that show and and and but continued my quest towards going so I would say to everyone I was going.

So I became obsessed with that show and and and but continued my quest towards going so I would say to everyone I was going.

To be a lawyer.

To be a lawyer.

But then, you know, I I fell hard for this girl at church who didn't even know I existed, and one day she invited me on what I thought was a date, but it was actually to join a youth theater at the National Theater in London. And I didn't realize this until I walked into the room and there were all these young people doing the crazy warm ups and all stuff that was completely alien to me, and I thought I thought we were going to see a play and I was quite shy, so but I kept going because I liked the girl. And then I really caught the bug at that theater. But I was still I had got into Oxford Brooks University to do a law degree and so, but this is the schizophrenic nature of it this. I took a gap year after high school and I went to art school. I went to the Guildhall School of Art in London. Yeah, but I was still supposed to be going to go and do law. But in that gap year, I bumped into my theater study teacher who had had at high school, and she said something to me that changed my life. She said, and this was outside a train station. I literally bumped into it in the street. She said, David, I wouldn't say this to every student that I have had, but I think you really should consider becoming a professional actor. And it completely threw me because I had enjoyed doing youth theater. In fact, she had helped me get into something called the National Youth Music Theater, which is where I actually met the lovely lady I eventually went on to marry at the age of We were seventeen and eighteen when we met, so.

But then, you know, I I fell hard for this girl at church who didn't even know I existed, and one day she invited me on what I thought was a date, but it was actually to join a youth theater at the National Theater in London. And I didn't realize this until I walked into the room and there were all these young people doing the crazy warm ups and all stuff that was completely alien to me, and I thought I thought we were going to see a play and I was quite shy, so but I kept going because I liked the girl. And then I really caught the bug at that theater. But I was still I had got into Oxford Brooks University to do a law degree and so, but this is the schizophrenic nature of it this. I took a gap year after high school and I went to art school. I went to the Guildhall School of Art in London. Yeah, but I was still supposed to be going to go and do law. But in that gap year, I bumped into my theater study teacher who had had at high school, and she said something to me that changed my life. She said, and this was outside a train station. I literally bumped into it in the street. She said, David, I wouldn't say this to every student that I have had, but I think you really should consider becoming a professional actor. And it completely threw me because I had enjoyed doing youth theater. In fact, she had helped me get into something called the National Youth Music Theater, which is where I actually met the lovely lady I eventually went on to marry at the age of We were seventeen and eighteen when we met, so.

She had helped me with that.

She had helped me with that.

I had loved it, but still I didn't think that this is what I would do professionally.

I had loved it, but still I didn't think that this is what I would do professionally.

But then she helped me.

But then she helped me.

With my auditions and applications for drama school, all of which I did secretly away from my parents, and I got into the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Arts on a scholarship because there was no way I was going to be able to pay to go, and miraculously I had this scholarship, and so that was the moment of truth. I had to go to my dad, who knew I was supposed to be going to Oxford Brooks University to do law, and.

With my auditions and applications for drama school, all of which I did secretly away from my parents, and I got into the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Arts on a scholarship because there was no way I was going to be able to pay to go, and miraculously I had this scholarship, and so that was the moment of truth. I had to go to my dad, who knew I was supposed to be going to Oxford Brooks University to do law, and.

Say, this thing has happened.

Say, this thing has happened.

So I will never forget going to him and saying, Daddy, I have something to tell you.

So I will never forget going to him and saying, Daddy, I have something to tell you.

Said what is it?

Said what is it?

I said, I'm gonna go to drama school and said and he went, what is drama school? I said, well, it's a place I want to be an actor. You want to go and be a caught jester. I was just like, no, no, it's not. It's not a school for court jesters. It's it's I'm going to be an actor. And the thing was, and I didn't realize it. At the time, there was so few representatives of true success on television or in films for my parents to go, oh, so you're going to be because Sidney Poitier and Denzel Washington.

I said, I'm gonna go to drama school and said and he went, what is drama school? I said, well, it's a place I want to be an actor. You want to go and be a caught jester. I was just like, no, no, it's not. It's not a school for court jesters. It's it's I'm going to be an actor. And the thing was, and I didn't realize it. At the time, there was so few representatives of true success on television or in films for my parents to go, oh, so you're going to be because Sidney Poitier and Denzel Washington.

That was pie in the sky stuff.

That was pie in the sky stuff.

That was that's not going to be us on a counselor state in North London. That's not the trajectory. So it was just like that that that's not gonna happen. What are you talking about? But the one thing that caught his attention was the scholarship, and I said, but I've got this scholarship. Ah, scholarship, we can tell everyone you are a scholar. So that that was the thing as long as he had something he could show off to his friends about. So so that's so I ended up doing three years of drama school at LAMBDA, and they just came on thinking, well, okay, now you're going to do a proper job. Are you now going to go to law school or whatever? No, like, this is now what I'm going to be doing. And it wasn't until I am about two or three years after I'd graduated from drama school, I got to play Henry the sixth and the Royal Shakespeare Company production of those plays, and my dad, who had suffered a lot of racism in the UK, he had first come to the UK in the sixties and seventies, and he just couldn't get his head around the fact that any black man was playing the King of England and that it was his son. And that was the day beyond which he became my number one fan. You couldn't talk to him without just boring you to death with my acting.

That was that's not going to be us on a counselor state in North London. That's not the trajectory. So it was just like that that that's not gonna happen. What are you talking about? But the one thing that caught his attention was the scholarship, and I said, but I've got this scholarship. Ah, scholarship, we can tell everyone you are a scholar. So that that was the thing as long as he had something he could show off to his friends about. So so that's so I ended up doing three years of drama school at LAMBDA, and they just came on thinking, well, okay, now you're going to do a proper job. Are you now going to go to law school or whatever? No, like, this is now what I'm going to be doing. And it wasn't until I am about two or three years after I'd graduated from drama school, I got to play Henry the sixth and the Royal Shakespeare Company production of those plays, and my dad, who had suffered a lot of racism in the UK, he had first come to the UK in the sixties and seventies, and he just couldn't get his head around the fact that any black man was playing the King of England and that it was his son. And that was the day beyond which he became my number one fan. You couldn't talk to him without just boring you to death with my acting.

And so that was the turning point.

And so that was the turning point.

That's so amazing. What a cool experience experience to get to have with your family. And oh gosh, I also think your point about representation, how we see each other or see ourselves in these spaces, really can shift your whole experience. And to think about what you got to see and didn't get to see for yourself as a young man. You know, the significance of the character on La Law, the significance of this experience at the Royal Shakespeare Company for your father. It the ripple effect that goes sort of back and forward generationally when people take up space and change other people's experience in that space is so profound. Yeah, and it makes me think about something I remember reading this. You know years ago, I loved the balls of it, and while the experience is different, I remember feeling like, honestly, I was like, yeah, I love that he said that. You know, I had this sort of exclamation because you talked. I mean, it's got to be almost ten years ago.

That's so amazing. What a cool experience experience to get to have with your family. And oh gosh, I also think your point about representation, how we see each other or see ourselves in these spaces, really can shift your whole experience. And to think about what you got to see and didn't get to see for yourself as a young man. You know, the significance of the character on La Law, the significance of this experience at the Royal Shakespeare Company for your father. It the ripple effect that goes sort of back and forward generationally when people take up space and change other people's experience in that space is so profound. Yeah, and it makes me think about something I remember reading this. You know years ago, I loved the balls of it, and while the experience is different, I remember feeling like, honestly, I was like, yeah, I love that he said that. You know, I had this sort of exclamation because you talked. I mean, it's got to be almost ten years ago.

Now.

Now.

You said, you know, you don't want to be sent scripts if the role is the best friend who's black, right, And I remember thinking like, that's exactly how I feel. I'm so sick of being sent scripts for the girlfriend, right, Like why can't I be my own person as a woman? Why do I only exist if I'm in a relationship on screen with a man? And you making that statement in your experience as a black man, and who you get to be, what roles you get to embody on screen? I loved the frankness of it, and I loved the boldness of it. And it's so hard because I want to talk about things you've done since then, but we're not allowed to talk about our work on strike. So I'm trying to figure out how to ask you questions without details. But I am curious in the you know, nearly a decade since that interview, when you've done all of these things, these unbearably beautiful roles in your career. Do you feel the same way. Do you feel like the things you've been able to say and do have helped shift the industry for you? You know, how do you look back at that beginning and where you sit today as an actor and the way you do get to represent yourself?

You said, you know, you don't want to be sent scripts if the role is the best friend who's black, right, And I remember thinking like, that's exactly how I feel. I'm so sick of being sent scripts for the girlfriend, right, Like why can't I be my own person as a woman? Why do I only exist if I'm in a relationship on screen with a man? And you making that statement in your experience as a black man, and who you get to be, what roles you get to embody on screen? I loved the frankness of it, and I loved the boldness of it. And it's so hard because I want to talk about things you've done since then, but we're not allowed to talk about our work on strike. So I'm trying to figure out how to ask you questions without details. But I am curious in the you know, nearly a decade since that interview, when you've done all of these things, these unbearably beautiful roles in your career. Do you feel the same way. Do you feel like the things you've been able to say and do have helped shift the industry for you? You know, how do you look back at that beginning and where you sit today as an actor and the way you do get to represent yourself?

Yeah, thank you so much for acknowledging that. You know, for us as actors, especially when you're at the beginning of your career, you can often feel that your existence, your success, your ascendancy is very much predicated on not being seen to be what could be deemed to be problematic in.

Yeah, thank you so much for acknowledging that. You know, for us as actors, especially when you're at the beginning of your career, you can often feel that your existence, your success, your ascendancy is very much predicated on not being seen to be what could be deemed to be problematic in.

Relation to the boat.

Relation to the boat.

Yeah, exactly, exactly, don't rock the boat. Don't have a false sense of yourself. But I've had that from day one, you know, leaving drama school, I remember meeting agents and saying, I want to go up for roles that are not just race specific.

Yeah, exactly, exactly, don't rock the boat. Don't have a false sense of yourself. But I've had that from day one, you know, leaving drama school, I remember meeting agents and saying, I want to go up for roles that are not just race specific.

I want to be considered for.

I want to be considered for.

The roles that white actors are going up for, because at that time, and to a certain extent even now, they would often have more dimension because they were they were they were being written as front and center, they were being written as important, as complex, as aspirational, and there was less way less of that if it was centered around a specifically black character. So outside of being able to create those roles for myself in a world where I was still before, I decided that producing and creating the kind of things I would want to be in was something at my disposal. My way of handling that was to say, okay, for me, when I get out of bed every day, the first thought I have is not I am a black man. How am I going to go out into the world and do black things?

The roles that white actors are going up for, because at that time, and to a certain extent even now, they would often have more dimension because they were they were they were being written as front and center, they were being written as important, as complex, as aspirational, and there was less way less of that if it was centered around a specifically black character. So outside of being able to create those roles for myself in a world where I was still before, I decided that producing and creating the kind of things I would want to be in was something at my disposal. My way of handling that was to say, okay, for me, when I get out of bed every day, the first thought I have is not I am a black man. How am I going to go out into the world and do black things?

That is just not. I am a human being.

That is just not. I am a human being.

I am complicated, complex, I am multifaceted. I am good and bad and everything in between. And I want to be able to mirror humanity back to itself in ways that I understand as a human being. And so the way to do that at that point in my career was to say, do not think of me as a quote unquote black actor.

I am complicated, complex, I am multifaceted. I am good and bad and everything in between. And I want to be able to mirror humanity back to itself in ways that I understand as a human being. And so the way to do that at that point in my career was to say, do not think of me as a quote unquote black actor.

And there were agents who loved at me. Literally.

And there were agents who loved at me. Literally.

I had an agent who I said that to who was just like, they stipulate and what am I going to put you up for an eleven year old girl?

I had an agent who I said that to who was just like, they stipulate and what am I going to put you up for an eleven year old girl?

He was sort of playing dumb.

He was sort of playing dumb.

He knew exactly what I meant, but you know, there was a status quo, and that, to my point earlier, is the danger of sort of being forthright about what you want to do.

He knew exactly what I meant, but you know, there was a status quo, and that, to my point earlier, is the danger of sort of being forthright about what you want to do.

But I stuck to my guns.

But I stuck to my guns.

I found an agent who believed in my perspective or it was at least, to go on that ride with me, and that's what led to me being playing Henry the Sixth that the at the Royal Shakespeare Company and doing projects that were not very specific because even though I now have the words to put to it now that I didn't have then, but the fact of the matter is I had a knowing then and I have it absolutely now that you cannot be what you cannot see, yes, and I am a big believer in being part of the solution, not part of the problem. And so therefore I refused to accept stereotypical caricature roles that I felt continued to denigrate what I personally would want to see as representations of black men on screen, and so I would only participate in projects where complexity, transcendency, inspiration, aspiration, all of those things that I see. And this is where it's important in relation to my formative years in Nigeria, I saw that growing up. So it was something I knew was real, even though the society I was now living in the UK for some reason was not necessarily showing that to me in a pervasive way. And I knew that I had to be part of the solution. And so you know, I constantly till today gravitate towards those kinds of stories, and as I continue to build my career, I butt it up against the fact that there is resistance to those kind of stories being told, and I think there is a fear around I hate this phrase because I actually black and brown people are the global majority, but what I guess we would call minorities. There is a sort of fear about seeing them front and center or being inspirational or it because it upsets the status quo of male, white, middle class apex predator transcendency. And so even if that is sometimes an unconscious bias, it's a bias all the same, and it's something to be thought, it's something to be challenged, it's something to be eroded because it's not reflective of the world we live in. And so it's absolutely crucial this medium that we are afforded the opportunity to be and has such enormous global impact. It's you know, it's the reason why ex presidents have deals at certain companies that will remain nameless during the strike. But you know, it's it's just such a globally important means of education, inspiration, culture shifts, and you know, I have tasked myself with, you know, being being additive and not irrosive when it comes to the things I choose to do.

I found an agent who believed in my perspective or it was at least, to go on that ride with me, and that's what led to me being playing Henry the Sixth that the at the Royal Shakespeare Company and doing projects that were not very specific because even though I now have the words to put to it now that I didn't have then, but the fact of the matter is I had a knowing then and I have it absolutely now that you cannot be what you cannot see, yes, and I am a big believer in being part of the solution, not part of the problem. And so therefore I refused to accept stereotypical caricature roles that I felt continued to denigrate what I personally would want to see as representations of black men on screen, and so I would only participate in projects where complexity, transcendency, inspiration, aspiration, all of those things that I see. And this is where it's important in relation to my formative years in Nigeria, I saw that growing up. So it was something I knew was real, even though the society I was now living in the UK for some reason was not necessarily showing that to me in a pervasive way. And I knew that I had to be part of the solution. And so you know, I constantly till today gravitate towards those kinds of stories, and as I continue to build my career, I butt it up against the fact that there is resistance to those kind of stories being told, and I think there is a fear around I hate this phrase because I actually black and brown people are the global majority, but what I guess we would call minorities. There is a sort of fear about seeing them front and center or being inspirational or it because it upsets the status quo of male, white, middle class apex predator transcendency. And so even if that is sometimes an unconscious bias, it's a bias all the same, and it's something to be thought, it's something to be challenged, it's something to be eroded because it's not reflective of the world we live in. And so it's absolutely crucial this medium that we are afforded the opportunity to be and has such enormous global impact. It's you know, it's the reason why ex presidents have deals at certain companies that will remain nameless during the strike. But you know, it's it's just such a globally important means of education, inspiration, culture shifts, and you know, I have tasked myself with, you know, being being additive and not irrosive when it comes to the things I choose to do.

I love that. And now a word from our sponsors. It's so important not to forget what a privilege our relative platforms are. And it's it's so interesting to me, you know, this this idea that you're bringing up about what the realities of who we are as humans globally really are factually statistically, and then you've got these very bizarre, as you said, sort of status quo experiences or illusions that people really want to hold on to. And even for me, I had a really wild moment with my therapist, who's my favorite person. I talk about him all the time. Trevor's my guy, and we had this conversation recently where I said something about like, well, who's ever had more permission you know, blah blah blah blah than me? And he just said, but you don't. You've been raised in this same society that has told you what your value as a woman is, in an industry that's told you what your relative value is as a woman who's a certain kind of pretty per other people's opinion, who could service certain kinds of characters in service of men on screen in certain kinds of ways. And I mean, he just broke this whole thing down for me, and I was like, oh my god, you're right, and I forget you know that I got on my first TV show in the early aughts when tabloid media was at its prime and we were ripping apart women like Britney Spears, you know, for clickbait, and like, it's such a wild thing to realize the influence of a system. And even for me, by the way, as I'm only I'm only one proximal degree away from pale mail and stale, you know, I was. I was born as a white woman in America in the year I was and still what I've experienced in terms of the upset that so many of those typical people in power have at a woman who is educated, political, outspoken, and whose entire mission is to burn down a white head inormative patriarchy and go out here and be part of this beautiful global populace. And people are like, you are a nightmare, and I'm like, okay, cool, Like I'd love to be a nightmare to you. You know, what are the rest of us going to go out here and do?

I love that. And now a word from our sponsors. It's so important not to forget what a privilege our relative platforms are. And it's it's so interesting to me, you know, this this idea that you're bringing up about what the realities of who we are as humans globally really are factually statistically, and then you've got these very bizarre, as you said, sort of status quo experiences or illusions that people really want to hold on to. And even for me, I had a really wild moment with my therapist, who's my favorite person. I talk about him all the time. Trevor's my guy, and we had this conversation recently where I said something about like, well, who's ever had more permission you know, blah blah blah blah than me? And he just said, but you don't. You've been raised in this same society that has told you what your value as a woman is, in an industry that's told you what your relative value is as a woman who's a certain kind of pretty per other people's opinion, who could service certain kinds of characters in service of men on screen in certain kinds of ways. And I mean, he just broke this whole thing down for me, and I was like, oh my god, you're right, and I forget you know that I got on my first TV show in the early aughts when tabloid media was at its prime and we were ripping apart women like Britney Spears, you know, for clickbait, and like, it's such a wild thing to realize the influence of a system. And even for me, by the way, as I'm only I'm only one proximal degree away from pale mail and stale, you know, I was. I was born as a white woman in America in the year I was and still what I've experienced in terms of the upset that so many of those typical people in power have at a woman who is educated, political, outspoken, and whose entire mission is to burn down a white head inormative patriarchy and go out here and be part of this beautiful global populace. And people are like, you are a nightmare, and I'm like, okay, cool, Like I'd love to be a nightmare to you. You know, what are the rest of us going to go out here and do?

And I I.

And I I.

Just I get so excited when people set examples as you have, where you get to go and make beautiful work, and you get to go and do inspirational art, and you're not you're not nervous to say that there's a there's a mission in it in every step of the way for you. It does take courage to do that. And so I guess I'm realizing in this moment I want to say thank you, well.

Just I get so excited when people set examples as you have, where you get to go and make beautiful work, and you get to go and do inspirational art, and you're not you're not nervous to say that there's a there's a mission in it in every step of the way for you. It does take courage to do that. And so I guess I'm realizing in this moment I want to say thank you, well.

Well, thank you, thank you for saying that.

Well, thank you, thank you for saying that.

And look, the reality is that we are all products of our environment, including white men. If all you have been told your entire existence is that you are the the pinnacle of society in the world, and everything around you is evidence of that.

And look, the reality is that we are all products of our environment, including white men. If all you have been told your entire existence is that you are the the pinnacle of society in the world, and everything around you is evidence of that.

You are you are that is going to inform your behavior.

You are you are that is going to inform your behavior.

So you know, I don't I don't blame anyone for being a product of their environment. But where I draw the line is when that is now being wheeled as a cudgel, When that is being wheeled as a weapon to marginalize other people because of a false supremacist narrative, that is just unequivocally problematic. And you know, our industry, a lot of the people who run it are products of that environment, and the bias sometimes is not intentional, it's it's just inherent. And so I feel like my job, to a certain extent is to highlight where we all have blind spots. I have blind spots as a man. You know, I've produced movies. I remember doing a film a while ago where this was a scene in a police station and it took a woman on set to go, every cop in this police station is a guy, and we it was. It was a film set in south central Los Angeles. And and if you go into a police station there there are white there are black cops, white cops, females male, there there's the plethoram And for whatever reason, I don't know who made the choice, but none of us being did anything but right.

So you know, I don't I don't blame anyone for being a product of their environment. But where I draw the line is when that is now being wheeled as a cudgel, When that is being wheeled as a weapon to marginalize other people because of a false supremacist narrative, that is just unequivocally problematic. And you know, our industry, a lot of the people who run it are products of that environment, and the bias sometimes is not intentional, it's it's just inherent. And so I feel like my job, to a certain extent is to highlight where we all have blind spots. I have blind spots as a man. You know, I've produced movies. I remember doing a film a while ago where this was a scene in a police station and it took a woman on set to go, every cop in this police station is a guy, and we it was. It was a film set in south central Los Angeles. And and if you go into a police station there there are white there are black cops, white cops, females male, there there's the plethoram And for whatever reason, I don't know who made the choice, but none of us being did anything but right.

And as a producer on.

And as a producer on.

That, on that film, I thought I was like, oh my gosh, stop, everything stops. I don't care what it says where we're going to be getting the uniforms from. But we cannot be part of the problem, like this is not what a police station in south central Los Angeles looks like.

That, on that film, I thought I was like, oh my gosh, stop, everything stops. I don't care what it says where we're going to be getting the uniforms from. But we cannot be part of the problem, like this is not what a police station in south central Los Angeles looks like.

Let's fix it.

Let's fix it.

But I definitely, and I only say that to say, I'm sure there's a myriad of ones I didn't catch, but we all have these blind spots, and for me, I have made peace with the fact that we all have biases. I have a bias towards African Black, you know, things that represent who I am, and I want to see that on screen. I have blind spots when it comes to Native Americans or Hispanic people or you know, as I just given that example, women at times. And so it's about there being more people, more different kinds of people in positions of power, whereby we are going to do that normal human thing of pushing our own bias. But there's enough variation that you go, oh, okay, so that we need a bit of that. I didn't didn't didn't spot that, missed that one. But when when it's primarily one demographic that now is going on to just completely dictate what the entire I mean, it's you know, Hollywood is such a culturally impactful industry, and and that's the thing that that has to be shifted and and and that you know, to your point earlier about my my more philanthropic work, That's what also happened when I had three sons. I was one of three boys, and then I had a girl, and my world completely changed. I was just like, oh, my gosh, I have.

But I definitely, and I only say that to say, I'm sure there's a myriad of ones I didn't catch, but we all have these blind spots, and for me, I have made peace with the fact that we all have biases. I have a bias towards African Black, you know, things that represent who I am, and I want to see that on screen. I have blind spots when it comes to Native Americans or Hispanic people or you know, as I just given that example, women at times. And so it's about there being more people, more different kinds of people in positions of power, whereby we are going to do that normal human thing of pushing our own bias. But there's enough variation that you go, oh, okay, so that we need a bit of that. I didn't didn't didn't spot that, missed that one. But when when it's primarily one demographic that now is going on to just completely dictate what the entire I mean, it's you know, Hollywood is such a culturally impactful industry, and and that's the thing that that has to be shifted and and and that you know, to your point earlier about my my more philanthropic work, That's what also happened when I had three sons. I was one of three boys, and then I had a girl, and my world completely changed. I was just like, oh, my gosh, I have.

A limb.

A limb.

This girl is like my heart walking outside my body around the world. I just I love all of my children, but there was something so profound about being one of three boys, having three boys, and then having a girl, and so the notion that she could or would be marginalized on the basis of being a girl was something I took incredibly personally and it affected my work choices in terms of certain films I went on to do that centered young specifically Black girls, where I was in a smaller role in relation to them. That really was like, no, no, no, that I am producing this film, I know, but this kind of person needs to be front and center because I need to send a message to my daughter. And that went on to be the driving force for, you know, the scholarship for girls that we have in Nigeria. And you know when that when that bring Back our Girls campaign began with the Boko Haram terrorist attacks in Nigeria, and you know, obviously as a Nigerian, but also as a father to a girl, and when the thing that primarily was being denied these girls was an education, that's when I just thought, Okay, I've got to somehow find a way again to be part of the solution and be a drop in the ocean of saying to those girls that they are of value, their education is necessitous for continued development of Nigerian culture. Nigeria is a very patriarchal country and so in my own way, I wanted to be able to just signify to them that for me, I see them, I want to help. And that's how the scholarship for girls again, that's so beautiful.

This girl is like my heart walking outside my body around the world. I just I love all of my children, but there was something so profound about being one of three boys, having three boys, and then having a girl, and so the notion that she could or would be marginalized on the basis of being a girl was something I took incredibly personally and it affected my work choices in terms of certain films I went on to do that centered young specifically Black girls, where I was in a smaller role in relation to them. That really was like, no, no, no, that I am producing this film, I know, but this kind of person needs to be front and center because I need to send a message to my daughter. And that went on to be the driving force for, you know, the scholarship for girls that we have in Nigeria. And you know when that when that bring Back our Girls campaign began with the Boko Haram terrorist attacks in Nigeria, and you know, obviously as a Nigerian, but also as a father to a girl, and when the thing that primarily was being denied these girls was an education, that's when I just thought, Okay, I've got to somehow find a way again to be part of the solution and be a drop in the ocean of saying to those girls that they are of value, their education is necessitous for continued development of Nigerian culture. Nigeria is a very patriarchal country and so in my own way, I wanted to be able to just signify to them that for me, I see them, I want to help. And that's how the scholarship for girls again, that's so beautiful.

And what I love about what you're saying is the willingness to acknowledge where our blind spots are doesn't necessarily have to mean something's wrong with you or that you're a bad person when we are able to grow, you know, the way I think about it is and talking about our particulars. You know, you as a black man, me as a white woman, like the people whose experiences I learn about that viscerally affect me and that I can relate to in my own way. I think as I move through my life, those are the people who never leave me. Like when I walk into a room and sometimes I'm the only woman in the room, who else am I carrying with me? In my perspective? Who else am I looking for? On set? When will I stop and say, hey, have we noticed who's not in this room and should be? And I think it's really special to hear you talk about the inherent experience as a man and a father, one of three boys and a father to boys. You only know what you know until you have a daughter, and then you see the world through her eyes, and suddenly your perspective grows yet again. And it makes me think so much about how we've seen consistently, You know, when you talk about the industry we work in.

And what I love about what you're saying is the willingness to acknowledge where our blind spots are doesn't necessarily have to mean something's wrong with you or that you're a bad person when we are able to grow, you know, the way I think about it is and talking about our particulars. You know, you as a black man, me as a white woman, like the people whose experiences I learn about that viscerally affect me and that I can relate to in my own way. I think as I move through my life, those are the people who never leave me. Like when I walk into a room and sometimes I'm the only woman in the room, who else am I carrying with me? In my perspective? Who else am I looking for? On set? When will I stop and say, hey, have we noticed who's not in this room and should be? And I think it's really special to hear you talk about the inherent experience as a man and a father, one of three boys and a father to boys. You only know what you know until you have a daughter, and then you see the world through her eyes, and suddenly your perspective grows yet again. And it makes me think so much about how we've seen consistently, You know, when you talk about the industry we work in.

Or.

Or.

School age children around the world, when we include more people at the decision making table, when we around the world center to the education of girls, education for boys gets better when there are more people like us in rooms where decisions are made. Projects do better. Companies actually have a better ROI So having more women and people of color in your c suites actually means you're just going to make more money. So it's not simply a moral imperative. It's a smart decision for the forward motion of the world. And having worked on global education for so long, when I read about your work, it felt like someone put a little more oxygen in the room, because it is I think a gift for us to be in the most connected generation in history. But it's also something I know causes feelings of helplessness for people around the world. Because we hear about what happens to these girls, we hear about this Boko Haram attack. Folks are helping to call attention to it and bring back our girls. Is trending online and then you go book what else do we do? Is this enough? And to have watched what you built and the launch of your foundation, and again the way you spend the privilege of a platform, not just centering young women on screen and taking a step back, you know, as an actor who's used to being lead in his projects and saying I'm going to give up some of this, you know, privilege of how the lines are divvied up here. But to use that platform and say when I go out and promote, when I have the ear of the biggest talk show hosts in Hollywood, New York and London, I'm going to talk about these girls. I'm gonna I'm gonna let the world know about what the education system in Nigeria looks like and what these girls deserve. Again, I think of the ripple effect that you have it and it really does create a massive shift.

School age children around the world, when we include more people at the decision making table, when we around the world center to the education of girls, education for boys gets better when there are more people like us in rooms where decisions are made. Projects do better. Companies actually have a better ROI So having more women and people of color in your c suites actually means you're just going to make more money. So it's not simply a moral imperative. It's a smart decision for the forward motion of the world. And having worked on global education for so long, when I read about your work, it felt like someone put a little more oxygen in the room, because it is I think a gift for us to be in the most connected generation in history. But it's also something I know causes feelings of helplessness for people around the world. Because we hear about what happens to these girls, we hear about this Boko Haram attack. Folks are helping to call attention to it and bring back our girls. Is trending online and then you go book what else do we do? Is this enough? And to have watched what you built and the launch of your foundation, and again the way you spend the privilege of a platform, not just centering young women on screen and taking a step back, you know, as an actor who's used to being lead in his projects and saying I'm going to give up some of this, you know, privilege of how the lines are divvied up here. But to use that platform and say when I go out and promote, when I have the ear of the biggest talk show hosts in Hollywood, New York and London, I'm going to talk about these girls. I'm gonna I'm gonna let the world know about what the education system in Nigeria looks like and what these girls deserve. Again, I think of the ripple effect that you have it and it really does create a massive shift.

And that's the power again of what we do. Because the reason I love to do that on screen is for that little white girl in Idaho to feel connection to a little black girl from Uganda who plays chess, and the little girl and Idaho loves chess, and the likelihood that she will ever meet someone like that might be incredibly remote, but there's a connection. And that's the thing. You know, Until you walk in someone's shoes, you don't really know who they are, so to speak, and especially in a world that unfortunately has become increasingly divided. Ironically, the closer we are by way of proximity, the more divided it seems like we are. In some ways, it's extraordinary what can happen when, for whatever reason, you are in the proximity of someone, for two hours, just two hours, and that tends to be around about the time that a film is or if it's a TV show, you have even longer. And it's extraordinary what can be achieved. I mean the Girls Scholarship. You know, I have a wonderful relationship with Oprah Winfrey, who I did a film with and we played mother and son, and it led to me going to her academy for girls in South Africa, and three hundred South African girls, a lot of whom were coming out of sexual violence, poverty, living in refugee camps, abuse, just every challenge you can imagine, and they're being afforded this opportunity on the basis of their intellect to go to an academy where that will be nurtured into its greatest potential. And Oprah did that because she saw herself reflected in these kids. Her story is one very much rooted in everything I just said, all of those challenges she dealt with as a young person, and so given the platform, given what she's been blessed with, she recognized what her plus them could equal, not just for South Africa, but for the world. And I went and it was this sort of incubator for greatness. I just thought, Wow, what an amazing thing. And by seeing again, you cannot be what you cannot see.

And that's the power again of what we do. Because the reason I love to do that on screen is for that little white girl in Idaho to feel connection to a little black girl from Uganda who plays chess, and the little girl and Idaho loves chess, and the likelihood that she will ever meet someone like that might be incredibly remote, but there's a connection. And that's the thing. You know, Until you walk in someone's shoes, you don't really know who they are, so to speak, and especially in a world that unfortunately has become increasingly divided. Ironically, the closer we are by way of proximity, the more divided it seems like we are. In some ways, it's extraordinary what can happen when, for whatever reason, you are in the proximity of someone, for two hours, just two hours, and that tends to be around about the time that a film is or if it's a TV show, you have even longer. And it's extraordinary what can be achieved. I mean the Girls Scholarship. You know, I have a wonderful relationship with Oprah Winfrey, who I did a film with and we played mother and son, and it led to me going to her academy for girls in South Africa, and three hundred South African girls, a lot of whom were coming out of sexual violence, poverty, living in refugee camps, abuse, just every challenge you can imagine, and they're being afforded this opportunity on the basis of their intellect to go to an academy where that will be nurtured into its greatest potential. And Oprah did that because she saw herself reflected in these kids. Her story is one very much rooted in everything I just said, all of those challenges she dealt with as a young person, and so given the platform, given what she's been blessed with, she recognized what her plus them could equal, not just for South Africa, but for the world. And I went and it was this sort of incubator for greatness. I just thought, Wow, what an amazing thing. And by seeing again, you cannot be what you cannot see.

I went to that.

I went to that.

Academy and I saw what was possible, and that was hundreds of girls. We currently have forty five girls that we put through their education where with them for six years, everything is provided, room board, all the books, all the facilities, all the education, and there's a mental health component because you know, some of our first girls had literally seen their parents murdered in front of their eyes because they were there in the middle of these terrorist atrocities and things like that. And so you can go in and think, oh, yeah, we're going to do this great thing and educate them, but it's so far wide and deep what they actually need. But once you know what it is they need and can afford it to them, it's the greatest joy imaginable. But the reason I felt the need to really focus, and this is another thing Oprah taught me. She said, people are going to pull on you left, right and centitive. Part of that cause part of that court you're gonna erode yourself and you're just going to be tired. Pick one thing and do it to the absolute end. Theory and funnel everything into that and I took that to heart. So girls' education is my thing, and I'm an ambassador for Girl Rising, and then you know, I have a leadership scholarship for girls, and those forty five girls who we are hoping become hundreds and thousands are my focus. And in focusing on them at a time where the bring back our girls, I just knew that was going to fall out of the news cycle. I knew the hashtag and all of that, and it did. But it is so meaningful for these girls to know that even though a lot of the world seems to have moved on, certain folks haven't and are here for the long haul. That in and of itself, outside of the actual education of them, just means the world. Because for so many girls, the feeling of being devalued, forgotten, discarded.

Academy and I saw what was possible, and that was hundreds of girls. We currently have forty five girls that we put through their education where with them for six years, everything is provided, room board, all the books, all the facilities, all the education, and there's a mental health component because you know, some of our first girls had literally seen their parents murdered in front of their eyes because they were there in the middle of these terrorist atrocities and things like that. And so you can go in and think, oh, yeah, we're going to do this great thing and educate them, but it's so far wide and deep what they actually need. But once you know what it is they need and can afford it to them, it's the greatest joy imaginable. But the reason I felt the need to really focus, and this is another thing Oprah taught me. She said, people are going to pull on you left, right and centitive. Part of that cause part of that court you're gonna erode yourself and you're just going to be tired. Pick one thing and do it to the absolute end. Theory and funnel everything into that and I took that to heart. So girls' education is my thing, and I'm an ambassador for Girl Rising, and then you know, I have a leadership scholarship for girls, and those forty five girls who we are hoping become hundreds and thousands are my focus. And in focusing on them at a time where the bring back our girls, I just knew that was going to fall out of the news cycle. I knew the hashtag and all of that, and it did. But it is so meaningful for these girls to know that even though a lot of the world seems to have moved on, certain folks haven't and are here for the long haul. That in and of itself, outside of the actual education of them, just means the world. Because for so many girls, the feeling of being devalued, forgotten, discarded.

Is the wound.

Is the wound.

That's the word you carry, and therefore just it becomes this sort of insurmountable thing in relation to what your actual capabilities are. But to know more than anything actually to know I remember going to see some of these girls, just going almost meant more than anything else we could afford them. And so that to to feel seen to feel like you're you're at the center of a life that is meaningful. Is just it's you cannot put a dollar number on that. And so what we're trying to do is not just educate girls, but shift the culture in relation to who is valuable, who gets to be a leader. There's it's very intentional calling a leadership scholarship and so you know, look, I can go on and on and on, but it's that that to me, it's about centering those who are worthy of it, not because they are special, but because they are flesh and blood human beings, traditionally marginalized. As you said earlier, we are all better. I mean, there's a reason. There's design in the fact that by a life wherever you go, fifty percent of the population are men.

That's the word you carry, and therefore just it becomes this sort of insurmountable thing in relation to what your actual capabilities are. But to know more than anything actually to know I remember going to see some of these girls, just going almost meant more than anything else we could afford them. And so that to to feel seen to feel like you're you're at the center of a life that is meaningful. Is just it's you cannot put a dollar number on that. And so what we're trying to do is not just educate girls, but shift the culture in relation to who is valuable, who gets to be a leader. There's it's very intentional calling a leadership scholarship and so you know, look, I can go on and on and on, but it's that that to me, it's about centering those who are worthy of it, not because they are special, but because they are flesh and blood human beings, traditionally marginalized. As you said earlier, we are all better. I mean, there's a reason. There's design in the fact that by a life wherever you go, fifty percent of the population are men.

Fifty percent. We need each other.

Fifty percent. We need each other.

Why, whether it's female directors or actresses or politicians or you know, all these arenas where women are marginalized, Why would we do that when nature itself is telling us there's a there's a yin and a yang to this. There is that you need both sides of this coin. How dumb is it to the It's like saying to your body, I'm only going to work out my left side right, you know, and you know that's going to be great for this body. It just doesn't make any sense to me.