If you want to go on a journey. If you're skeptical, don't worry. I'm here to preach. Gonna keep the clean and talk to me and recause where faith meets off nature and get in touch with your creator with a baking love and June. She even speaks Hebrew. What's done?

If you want to go on a journey. If you're skeptical, don't worry. I'm here to preach. Gonna keep the clean and talk to me and recause where faith meets off nature and get in touch with your creator with a baking love and June. She even speaks Hebrew. What's done?

Don what's that?

Don what's that?

As well said talking transformation?

As well said talking transformation?

What's done?

What's done?

Gonzo?

Gonzo?

Well, hello and welcome back to what's God got to do with it? I am here with my dear friend Chip Dove.

Well, hello and welcome back to what's God got to do with it? I am here with my dear friend Chip Dove.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much for being here.

Good to see you. I'm glad to be here.

Good to see you. I'm glad to be here.

Before we dive in, for anybody who hasn't met you, just kind of share a little bit about who you are and how you became the man that you are today.

Before we dive in, for anybody who hasn't met you, just kind of share a little bit about who you are and how you became the man that you are today.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I basically grew up in the situation in which we didn't do feelings, and basically the consequences of that are the same as consequences of everybody. I decided through my own personal search, I actually became.

I basically grew up in the situation in which we didn't do feelings, and basically the consequences of that are the same as consequences of everybody. I decided through my own personal search, I actually became.

I remember talking to my father.

I remember talking to my father.

I was thinking I'm going to go get a counseling degree, because you know, I was kind of like like.

I was thinking I'm going to go get a counseling degree, because you know, I was kind of like like.

I'm not doing so well where I am.

I'm not doing so well where I am.

I remember him saying to me, you know there's exogenous depression, there's also indogenous depression. I'm like, I didn't know you knew stuff like that. Number tumber two is that there's a haything to do with me, right, And he said, if you go and start working on a counseling degree and you find that you're still where you are, why don't you get some help? And I literally like defending myself from him thinking that something was wrong with me, right, because all about there's nothing wrong with me. Sure I didn't know what toxic shame was. And I said, no, I'm not going to get a counseling degree to get help.

I remember him saying to me, you know there's exogenous depression, there's also indogenous depression. I'm like, I didn't know you knew stuff like that. Number tumber two is that there's a haything to do with me, right, And he said, if you go and start working on a counseling degree and you find that you're still where you are, why don't you get some help? And I literally like defending myself from him thinking that something was wrong with me, right, because all about there's nothing wrong with me. Sure I didn't know what toxic shame was. And I said, no, I'm not going to get a counseling degree to get help.

I'm going to learn how.

I'm going to learn how.

To fix people. And I was diagnosing myself really totally. So I get out to Texas from Tennessee. I'd already was already working on finishing up a master's degree in English, believe it or not, and before that was working construction. You know what heies, fifty seven is just like a mix.

To fix people. And I was diagnosing myself really totally. So I get out to Texas from Tennessee. I'd already was already working on finishing up a master's degree in English, believe it or not, and before that was working construction. You know what heies, fifty seven is just like a mix.

Of all these breeds.

Of all these breeds.

I can relate to almost anywhere, anybody and really honestly anytime. Also and learned how to do the dance of not let anybody know me too. I didn't even know I was doing that. So, I mean, it's amazing how far removed we can get from how we're creating who were made to be and honestly the path we're made to be on. But the beauty that we'll hope we'll get into is that God's the ultimate garbage man. He knows how to take what we consider garbage or the garbage we create, literally grinded in the compost, and it turns into kind of a fertilizer for somebody else's future.

I can relate to almost anywhere, anybody and really honestly anytime. Also and learned how to do the dance of not let anybody know me too. I didn't even know I was doing that. So, I mean, it's amazing how far removed we can get from how we're creating who were made to be and honestly the path we're made to be on. But the beauty that we'll hope we'll get into is that God's the ultimate garbage man. He knows how to take what we consider garbage or the garbage we create, literally grinded in the compost, and it turns into kind of a fertilizer for somebody else's future.

Or our own.

Or our own.

Absolutely, so I had no clue about that, and so I get out to Texas. He got into a PhD program without a real background.

Absolutely, so I had no clue about that, and so I get out to Texas. He got into a PhD program without a real background.

I had to do a year of leveling.

I had to do a year of leveling.

And found out at that point that I was an adult child of alcoholism, one of the characteristics, one of the background, one of the experiences of my life, and that I needed help, and so I sought it became really got into recovery. It wasn't labeling. I got into recovery from the things were growing up in a dysfunctional family. And my father knew these things because of his own repair, his own recovery, and his own treatment. But I thought his treatment is the finish. That's great, he's good. I did not know the systematic contagion that kind of spreads out from one sick person, and other people stay with a sick person long enough, they all get sick.

And found out at that point that I was an adult child of alcoholism, one of the characteristics, one of the background, one of the experiences of my life, and that I needed help, and so I sought it became really got into recovery. It wasn't labeling. I got into recovery from the things were growing up in a dysfunctional family. And my father knew these things because of his own repair, his own recovery, and his own treatment. But I thought his treatment is the finish. That's great, he's good. I did not know the systematic contagion that kind of spreads out from one sick person, and other people stay with a sick person long enough, they all get sick.

So anyway, long story short, I really found out.

So anyway, long story short, I really found out.

That I was, if I may say it this way, I was gifted in sensitivity and had run from it my whole life. I was gifted in intuition and had dis counted it or used it to please people, get people's approval, to get achievement so that I would feel okay about myself or caretake others, because that the more I care for others, the more I'll be approved of, the more I belong in matter. I mean, just really, which we call codependency, and I do a podcast called Living with Heart from Birth to Death, and we just finished up about eight episodes on codependency, which is a major part of my recovery. And so what happened was I found out that I was born for what I'm doing, and a person stepped into my life who recognized my giftedness from her own recovery sort of laid claim to me, said there's a man in that person who doesn't even know how.

That I was, if I may say it this way, I was gifted in sensitivity and had run from it my whole life. I was gifted in intuition and had dis counted it or used it to please people, get people's approval, to get achievement so that I would feel okay about myself or caretake others, because that the more I care for others, the more I'll be approved of, the more I belong in matter. I mean, just really, which we call codependency, and I do a podcast called Living with Heart from Birth to Death, and we just finished up about eight episodes on codependency, which is a major part of my recovery. And so what happened was I found out that I was born for what I'm doing, and a person stepped into my life who recognized my giftedness from her own recovery sort of laid claim to me, said there's a man in that person who doesn't even know how.

Much of a man he is.

Much of a man he is.

Wow.

Wow.

But what she really did she said, look at these these are called feelings. I'm like, what, because I believed in body, mind, spirit, personal strength, and effort. I also wrote a book on the Beatitudes that came out in twenty fifteen. That's all about how the Beatitudes are about surrender and that our strength comes from the very thing we.

But what she really did she said, look at these these are called feelings. I'm like, what, because I believed in body, mind, spirit, personal strength, and effort. I also wrote a book on the Beatitudes that came out in twenty fifteen. That's all about how the Beatitudes are about surrender and that our strength comes from the very thing we.

Spend our lives running from.

Spend our lives running from.

And I had indeed spent my life running from the heart of who I am. And it turns out that she introduced me to feelings. And that's when I did the deep dive. I went from recovery from what ailed me to recovery of who I made to be, how I made who's I made to be, and then what I'm made to do. And anyway, everything has spilled out of those eight feelings. What turns out I began to do a tremendous amount of research focus recovery. So my experience, my inborn, you know, makeup my education.

And I had indeed spent my life running from the heart of who I am. And it turns out that she introduced me to feelings. And that's when I did the deep dive. I went from recovery from what ailed me to recovery of who I made to be, how I made who's I made to be, and then what I'm made to do. And anyway, everything has spilled out of those eight feelings. What turns out I began to do a tremendous amount of research focus recovery. So my experience, my inborn, you know, makeup my education.

I did get a PhD in coute're in there.

I did get a PhD in coute're in there.

But what's amazing is I know that the education is extremely valuable, But it's the PhD that I put down as number five or number six in terms of what did for me what I couldn't do for myself.

But what's amazing is I know that the education is extremely valuable, But it's the PhD that I put down as number five or number six in terms of what did for me what I couldn't do for myself.

Now, the PhD is a ticket.

Now, the PhD is a ticket.

I mean, I'm doctor dodyp and it does you know, I say, this is doctor Dodd. I'd like to speak to so and so, and it does open doors, but what opens hearts is not a PhD.

I mean, I'm doctor dodyp and it does you know, I say, this is doctor Dodd. I'd like to speak to so and so, and it does open doors, but what opens hearts is not a PhD.

So I went into deep dive.

So I went into deep dive.

On the study of feelings and then, honestly everything, I mean, an insecure man full of toxic shame became bold and convicted around the witness I had about what had done.

On the study of feelings and then, honestly everything, I mean, an insecure man full of toxic shame became bold and convicted around the witness I had about what had done.

For me what I couldn't do for myself. So it's amazing. Whenever it came to feelings I could speak pretty clearly.

For me what I couldn't do for myself. So it's amazing. Whenever it came to feelings I could speak pretty clearly.

Everything else was sort of lagging behind in terms of the confidence, sense of courage. I had courage about that, but not necessarily courage about everything else. Everything else has been a growing from the inside out, letting the heart of who I am, feel.

Everything else was sort of lagging behind in terms of the confidence, sense of courage. I had courage about that, but not necessarily courage about everything else. Everything else has been a growing from the inside out, letting the heart of who I am, feel.

The body of how I made.

The body of how I made.

Honestly, so to your audience, I just wanted them to know the voice of the heart.

Honestly, so to your audience, I just wanted them to know the voice of the heart.

Book is profound, it is real. It's a similar work.

Book is profound, it is real. It's a similar work.

It's the first book on feelings that was written in the twentieth century.

It's the first book on feelings that was written in the twentieth century.

I mean it's amazing.

I mean it's amazing.

Wow.

Wow.

I didn't know that I was right because when it came out, all I herd were crickets. I remember telling Sona, who I'm married to, I said, science is gonna be really big. It's gonna be big. A year later, nothing, the publisher went out of business. They gave me rights to the book. I just started self publishing, and here we are, honestly, twenty five years later, and the Voice of the Heart book is like number four or five on the best Christian counseling books on Amazon, and on the top ten on the religious counseling books.

I didn't know that I was right because when it came out, all I herd were crickets. I remember telling Sona, who I'm married to, I said, science is gonna be really big. It's gonna be big. A year later, nothing, the publisher went out of business. They gave me rights to the book. I just started self publishing, and here we are, honestly, twenty five years later, and the Voice of the Heart book is like number four or five on the best Christian counseling books on Amazon, and on the top ten on the religious counseling books.

So it was ahead of its time.

So it was ahead of its time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then finally we've gotten to the point that we talk about feelings, but beginning back to it upon the doorway of the human heart, And I mean this with everything in me.

And then finally we've gotten to the point that we talk about feelings, but beginning back to it upon the doorway of the human heart, And I mean this with everything in me.

As much as I believe in God and Jesus, I really believe this too. Like number three that.

As much as I believe in God and Jesus, I really believe this too. Like number three that.

Upon the door way if the human heart are written eight words, and the eight words are the eight core feelings of how we're made. I mean, we have three primary colors, we have a certain number of musical notes, we have certain number of organs in the body, we have on alphabet we have numbers that let us make the world make sense. It wouldn't it be also true of God to give us tools that allow us to create.

Upon the door way if the human heart are written eight words, and the eight words are the eight core feelings of how we're made. I mean, we have three primary colors, we have a certain number of musical notes, we have certain number of organs in the body, we have on alphabet we have numbers that let us make the world make sense. It wouldn't it be also true of God to give us tools that allow us to create.

And so we gave us eight feelings.

And so we gave us eight feelings.

He gave us sadness to deal with loss in the tragic world. He gave us fear to respond to dangers so we can ask for help. He gave us loneliness to be in relationship. He gave us anger to move towards what matters. He gave us hurt to heal. He gave us gladness to express celebration. He gave us healthy shame to stay needy. He gave us guilt to seek forgiveness. He gave us eight feelings to be able to live fully in a tragic world. And what's amazing is you cannot enter your heart and come out of your heart with the material that's in it unless you know the passwords that let you in your heart. And if we don't know the language of the heart, the heart's not going to talk back to us. I mean, they'll give us expressions like despair, depression, it'll give us elation, but it won't give us the core expression that really allows us to connect to everyone and everybody in an understandable way. And what I mean by that is like, if I say I feel really sad, you, as a human being, if you're awake at all, you know exactly what I mean. You just don't know the story yet. But if I say I'm really in despair right now, you're like what what does that mean?

He gave us sadness to deal with loss in the tragic world. He gave us fear to respond to dangers so we can ask for help. He gave us loneliness to be in relationship. He gave us anger to move towards what matters. He gave us hurt to heal. He gave us gladness to express celebration. He gave us healthy shame to stay needy. He gave us guilt to seek forgiveness. He gave us eight feelings to be able to live fully in a tragic world. And what's amazing is you cannot enter your heart and come out of your heart with the material that's in it unless you know the passwords that let you in your heart. And if we don't know the language of the heart, the heart's not going to talk back to us. I mean, they'll give us expressions like despair, depression, it'll give us elation, but it won't give us the core expression that really allows us to connect to everyone and everybody in an understandable way. And what I mean by that is like, if I say I feel really sad, you, as a human being, if you're awake at all, you know exactly what I mean. You just don't know the story yet. But if I say I'm really in despair right now, you're like what what does that mean?

Or I'm depressed, like, well, what happened?

Or I'm depressed, like, well, what happened?

Or if I say I'm just disgusted, like what are you talking about? But if I say I'm sad, you already relate to me, because as a human being, you're responding to the core of how you're made. So feedings connect us the needs. Needs connect us to desire. Desire connects us to longings for a life that really isn't here completely, but we need to move towards it. And then long's connect us to hope. Hope reconnects us to fear. And then so there's the daily living. We're called to face our feelings, name our feelings, and deal with our feelings so we can be fully connected because.

Or if I say I'm just disgusted, like what are you talking about? But if I say I'm sad, you already relate to me, because as a human being, you're responding to the core of how you're made. So feedings connect us the needs. Needs connect us to desire. Desire connects us to longings for a life that really isn't here completely, but we need to move towards it. And then long's connect us to hope. Hope reconnects us to fear. And then so there's the daily living. We're called to face our feelings, name our feelings, and deal with our feelings so we can be fully connected because.

That's how we relate to each other.

That's how we relate to each other.

That's a long little bit there, but I'm just like hanging on every word.

That's a long little bit there, but I'm just like hanging on every word.

This's the thing at the end so here we are.

This's the thing at the end so here we are.

We're talking about me being when we're talking about me being twenty eight.

We're talking about me being when we're talking about me being twenty eight.

And then Kathy Gola just said, there's somebody there you don't know.

And then Kathy Gola just said, there's somebody there you don't know.

Yeah, I'm like, well, what do you mean you're poking through my walls? Like yeah, because if you get to know who you don't know, you're going to find him as defective as I think I am. And she said, you're mistaken, and I'm like, what are you talking about? And she began to talk about God in ways I didn't know and reintroduce me to Jesus i'd forgotten about, honestly through relationship. Then I learned the power of what relationship does.

Yeah, I'm like, well, what do you mean you're poking through my walls? Like yeah, because if you get to know who you don't know, you're going to find him as defective as I think I am. And she said, you're mistaken, and I'm like, what are you talking about? And she began to talk about God in ways I didn't know and reintroduce me to Jesus i'd forgotten about, honestly through relationship. Then I learned the power of what relationship does.

But here we are years later.

But here we are years later.

I was twenty eight, I'll be sixty seven next month. Okay, So here I am just as energized, just as focused, just as passionate as.

I was twenty eight, I'll be sixty seven next month. Okay, So here I am just as energized, just as focused, just as passionate as.

An old band. Still not tired of this pearl that I found.

An old band. Still not tired of this pearl that I found.

Yeah, well it's such a timeless pearl.

Yeah, well it's such a timeless pearl.

And I think, gosh, you touched on so many amazing things, including you know, I really think that deep down fear that all of us have is that deep down we are defective or broken, or if anybody figures us out.

And I think, gosh, you touched on so many amazing things, including you know, I really think that deep down fear that all of us have is that deep down we are defective or broken, or if anybody figures us out.

Then they'll only know how messed up we are.

Then they'll only know how messed up we are.

You know, so so beautiful to even speak about that, because I think just we all need that person to see into us and see who what we're not seeing, and see who we're not being, and really invite us.

You know, so so beautiful to even speak about that, because I think just we all need that person to see into us and see who what we're not seeing, and see who we're not being, and really invite us.

Into that bigger picture, recognize us better in some ways then we recognize ourselves.

Into that bigger picture, recognize us better in some ways then we recognize ourselves.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah, and so and it's so interesting too, because I think you know your your book is timeless and I love it. It's so ironic that it came out with crickets, because now it's everywhere every counseling practice. And I think I told you this the first time we met. That when I first met my husband, one of the biggest green flags for me was that he would in counseling and they were going through a voice of the heart and I was like, Okay, this is a man that's going to be emotionally available and spoiler alert.

Yeah, and so and it's so interesting too, because I think you know your your book is timeless and I love it. It's so ironic that it came out with crickets, because now it's everywhere every counseling practice. And I think I told you this the first time we met. That when I first met my husband, one of the biggest green flags for me was that he would in counseling and they were going through a voice of the heart and I was like, Okay, this is a man that's going to be emotionally available and spoiler alert.

We got married. So thank you for helping my husband. No, but said yeah, exactly.

We got married. So thank you for helping my husband. No, but said yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so here's the thing.

And so here's the thing.

I think it's so easy for people to cast aside this idea of emotions and they think it's this touchy feel a thing, or even the way that you described it how God gave us these eight core emotions, which actually transcends this idea of like there's good emotions and bad emotions, and it's like, no, they're feelings, right, They're just feelings. And like you said, there's healthy shame and there's toxic shame, and so they can be used as a toolro weapon.

I think it's so easy for people to cast aside this idea of emotions and they think it's this touchy feel a thing, or even the way that you described it how God gave us these eight core emotions, which actually transcends this idea of like there's good emotions and bad emotions, and it's like, no, they're feelings, right, They're just feelings. And like you said, there's healthy shame and there's toxic shame, and so they can be used as a toolro weapon.

So I'd love to unpack this. First of all, how did you come to.

So I'd love to unpack this. First of all, how did you come to.

The idea that emotions are the voice of the heart as you call it, And what was the turning point in your life or career that solidified that. I know that you just shared shared the bit, but what was that big turning point that you were like, I have to get this out to the world. What was that big turning point that you were like, I have to get this out to the world.

The idea that emotions are the voice of the heart as you call it, And what was the turning point in your life or career that solidified that. I know that you just shared shared the bit, but what was that big turning point that you were like, I have to get this out to the world. What was that big turning point that you were like, I have to get this out to the world.

Yes, when I saw what feelings do for me, because you know neuroscience now, you know twenty years after the Voice of the Heart came out or early fifteen, started talking about the very things the Voice of Heart was talking about, that we're created as emotional and spiritual creatures, created to do one thing in life.

Yes, when I saw what feelings do for me, because you know neuroscience now, you know twenty years after the Voice of the Heart came out or early fifteen, started talking about the very things the Voice of Heart was talking about, that we're created as emotional and spiritual creatures, created to do one thing in life.

And it's lived fully.

And it's lived fully.

Well, that sentence wasn't true to me yet, but when I started seeing how feelings actually let me be known to me, I wasn't running for me anymore, allowed me to connect with others in the way that I made to, which is relationally see.

Well, that sentence wasn't true to me yet, but when I started seeing how feelings actually let me be known to me, I wasn't running for me anymore, allowed me to connect with others in the way that I made to, which is relationally see.

Because we're made to find fulfillment.

Because we're made to find fulfillment.

Relationship, and I wasn't in relationship with myself others.

Relationship, and I wasn't in relationship with myself others.

Believe it or not.

Believe it or not.

I believed in God, but I would not say that I experienced God. And feelings allow us to experience ourselves, to be a witness to ourselves to say this is a act, and like, I can't get away from it. I'm not making it up. It's there inside me. I can run from it or I can own it. So feelings actually allow us to connect with others. The neuroscience says you come out of the womb looking for who's looking for you. I was saying, you come out of the womb looking for relationship fulfillment.

I believed in God, but I would not say that I experienced God. And feelings allow us to experience ourselves, to be a witness to ourselves to say this is a act, and like, I can't get away from it. I'm not making it up. It's there inside me. I can run from it or I can own it. So feelings actually allow us to connect with others. The neuroscience says you come out of the womb looking for who's looking for you. I was saying, you come out of the womb looking for relationship fulfillment.

Same thing, yea. And so we're seeking being connected.

Same thing, yea. And so we're seeking being connected.

And it's the feelings that allow us to identify with each other. In fact, simplest way to put it, Leanne there is a ride at Disney World. I'm six four, two thirty. I'm a man, all right, I'm a tough guy, but one of my favorite rides at Disney World, believe it.

And it's the feelings that allow us to identify with each other. In fact, simplest way to put it, Leanne there is a ride at Disney World. I'm six four, two thirty. I'm a man, all right, I'm a tough guy, but one of my favorite rides at Disney World, believe it.

Or not, is a small World.

Or not, is a small World.

Oh yeah, not.

Oh yeah, not.

Because it has that brainwashing song.

Because it has that brainwashing song.

But we were on the ride with our kids and I'm just waiting to get off, just like, let's get this over with, move on, because that small world gets in the brain.

But we were on the ride with our kids and I'm just waiting to get off, just like, let's get this over with, move on, because that small world gets in the brain.

And Sonia said, did you hear that? I'm like, yes, over and over.

And Sonia said, did you hear that? I'm like, yes, over and over.

It's a small world, small world, she said, did you hear the stanza?

It's a small world, small world, she said, did you hear the stanza?

And the stanza?

And the stanza?

It's a world of laughter and a world of tears, a world of hope and a world of fears.

It's a world of laughter and a world of tears, a world of hope and a world of fears.

There's so much that we share that it's time we're aware. It's a small world after all.

There's so much that we share that it's time we're aware. It's a small world after all.

So that song is saying the same thing that we make the world understandable, secure, small in terms of like big enough to be you know, the we can handle it, we can live well in it if we would tell the truth about how we're all made the same.

So that song is saying the same thing that we make the world understandable, secure, small in terms of like big enough to be you know, the we can handle it, we can live well in it if we would tell the truth about how we're all made the same.

And the research has shown that the DNA of.

And the research has shown that the DNA of.

The human being is ninety nine point nine percent the same as every other human being. And that's the emotional and spiritual DNA. That's not just true about you know people right now, it's true across all cultures, all cultures.

The human being is ninety nine point nine percent the same as every other human being. And that's the emotional and spiritual DNA. That's not just true about you know people right now, it's true across all cultures, all cultures.

It's also true up and down throughout history.

It's also true up and down throughout history.

You look at the Greek masks, you look at the Fresh Goes, you look at the old literature. It's all about feeling feelings, telling the truth about and experiencing life to the full.

You look at the Greek masks, you look at the Fresh Goes, you look at the old literature. It's all about feeling feelings, telling the truth about and experiencing life to the full.

Yeah, it's even true across men and women.

Yeah, it's even true across men and women.

Ninety nine percent of the female rain and male rain are exactly the same. It's that one percent difference that helps us understand ourselves differently, you know, and how we express and how they show up. Yeah, and I think we think we're all alone in this world and that we have it worse so that we're more broken than the next. And I love how you said you got to become known to yourself, right, And that is so powerful because I think people are walking around so disconnected from themselves and then they logically understand who God is, but they don't stand in the knowingness of who they are and how God sees them. So that's where that disconnect comes in.

Ninety nine percent of the female rain and male rain are exactly the same. It's that one percent difference that helps us understand ourselves differently, you know, and how we express and how they show up. Yeah, and I think we think we're all alone in this world and that we have it worse so that we're more broken than the next. And I love how you said you got to become known to yourself, right, And that is so powerful because I think people are walking around so disconnected from themselves and then they logically understand who God is, but they don't stand in the knowingness of who they are and how God sees them. So that's where that disconnect comes in.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And see the research has shown too, especially in the past five years, that the heart moves faster that let's just say that the thinking of the heart, and remember this is also scriptural, is Proverbs twenty three seven. I've noticed some changes, but it's the King James. The Old Bible said, as a person thinks in their heart, so is the person communicating what neuroscience is communicating. So the heart actually sends more information to the brain than the brain can actually handle as fast as the heart can.

And see the research has shown too, especially in the past five years, that the heart moves faster that let's just say that the thinking of the heart, and remember this is also scriptural, is Proverbs twenty three seven. I've noticed some changes, but it's the King James. The Old Bible said, as a person thinks in their heart, so is the person communicating what neuroscience is communicating. So the heart actually sends more information to the brain than the brain can actually handle as fast as the heart can.

Number one. Number two is this is the big mic drop, is that we.

Number one. Number two is this is the big mic drop, is that we.

Are feeling creatures who happen to be able to think. We're not thinking creatures who just have to mess with these little flies that bother us, these pests, the mosquitoes called feelings. And even back in the eighties when the big mind body movement, we kind of woke up to being beyond cognition, only that the mind body research completely discounted feelings. Feelings were considered garbage in and garbage out like weaknesses instead of the actually beginnings of our strength. Feelings are the beginnings of our strength, and we feel before we think. Yeah, So if we're don't use our heads to associate with our hearts, if we don't use our minds to engage with our hearts, then we're gonna miss basically half.

Are feeling creatures who happen to be able to think. We're not thinking creatures who just have to mess with these little flies that bother us, these pests, the mosquitoes called feelings. And even back in the eighties when the big mind body movement, we kind of woke up to being beyond cognition, only that the mind body research completely discounted feelings. Feelings were considered garbage in and garbage out like weaknesses instead of the actually beginnings of our strength. Feelings are the beginnings of our strength, and we feel before we think. Yeah, So if we're don't use our heads to associate with our hearts, if we don't use our minds to engage with our hearts, then we're gonna miss basically half.

Of our lives. Yeah, chasing something that we don't find.

Of our lives. Yeah, chasing something that we don't find.

Yeah, absolutely, And I mean you think about the old adage of being chased by that saber tooth tiger. You know, your heart is in play, that fear, that all the things when literally your prefrontal cortex cannot come online in those moments you are. So the heart supersedes the thinking brain, you know, and it does. I think we discount it, or we think that it's maybe relevant to other people but not to us, right, or maybe we just don't know what we don't know?

Yeah, absolutely, And I mean you think about the old adage of being chased by that saber tooth tiger. You know, your heart is in play, that fear, that all the things when literally your prefrontal cortex cannot come online in those moments you are. So the heart supersedes the thinking brain, you know, and it does. I think we discount it, or we think that it's maybe relevant to other people but not to us, right, or maybe we just don't know what we don't know?

And even what you mentioned that the brain is doing two things all the time.

And even what you mentioned that the brain is doing two things all the time.

One is your frontal lobe is always saying is it safe? Always checking out the environment?

One is your frontal lobe is always saying is it safe? Always checking out the environment?

Is it safe?

Is it safe?

But you're trying to find safety so you can ask another question, yeah, and the other real questions but do you care if I'm safe?

But you're trying to find safety so you can ask another question, yeah, and the other real questions but do you care if I'm safe?

Do you care?

Do you care?

And the problem is we have forgotten how to ask that second question, yeah, because we never get enough control of our world outside to know we're safe. Right, So we're driven by anxiety more than we're driven by being able to tell the truth, like I'm in need because anxiety makes us run away from neediness.

And the problem is we have forgotten how to ask that second question, yeah, because we never get enough control of our world outside to know we're safe. Right, So we're driven by anxiety more than we're driven by being able to tell the truth, like I'm in need because anxiety makes us run away from neediness.

Sure what I'm saying, light freeze, appease.

Sure what I'm saying, light freeze, appease.

Childs what we really need in those moments.

Childs what we really need in those moments.

Yeah, and we're in an anxiety driven society more than ever before, because the world's not small, it's bigger than ever.

Yeah, and we're in an anxiety driven society more than ever before, because the world's not small, it's bigger than ever.

Absolutely, and we don't know.

Absolutely, and we don't know.

How to relate to each other face to face. We do it through social media technology.

How to relate to each other face to face. We do it through social media technology.

So absolutely losing our way. It's such a powerful point.

So absolutely losing our way. It's such a powerful point.

So many people are taught to avoid and suppress emotions like anger or fear. So what would you say to somebody who has a hard time seeing these emotions as beneficial?

So many people are taught to avoid and suppress emotions like anger or fear. So what would you say to somebody who has a hard time seeing these emotions as beneficial?

Yeah? Yeah, just number one.

Yeah? Yeah, just number one.

People need to know that suppression of expression equals oppression that comes when anxiety has just warn us out. Okay, So suppression of expression equals depressing your life. Everybody comes into life with a hunger to live, a desire to be connected, a search for fulfillment, Okay, and fulfillment occurs through belonging and mattering. As I'm created, right, and so that requires that that I'm going to have life experiences, and life experiences means that I'm going to have feelings and feedings are there to allow me to express myself so I can be connected to others and have the life I'm made to have. No one's made to live alone. In fact, we're so relationally built that even the word hermit only has a definition by separated from relationship.

People need to know that suppression of expression equals oppression that comes when anxiety has just warn us out. Okay, So suppression of expression equals depressing your life. Everybody comes into life with a hunger to live, a desire to be connected, a search for fulfillment, Okay, and fulfillment occurs through belonging and mattering. As I'm created, right, and so that requires that that I'm going to have life experiences, and life experiences means that I'm going to have feelings and feedings are there to allow me to express myself so I can be connected to others and have the life I'm made to have. No one's made to live alone. In fact, we're so relationally built that even the word hermit only has a definition by separated from relationship.

Wow, I mean what I'm saying. You feel what I'm saying.

Wow, I mean what I'm saying. You feel what I'm saying.

Like, everything's about relationship, everything, And so feelings are the language of the heart, and they're the language of how we experience life. If life touches you, you're going to feel. If you care about someone someplace or somewhere and you lose that, you're going to have sadness. If you can't have sadness, it means you never attached. If you can't attach, it means you're not in life because it's relational. And if you can't attach, it means you are trying not to care, so you won't have loss. So love is all about a willingness to be.

Like, everything's about relationship, everything, And so feelings are the language of the heart, and they're the language of how we experience life. If life touches you, you're going to feel. If you care about someone someplace or somewhere and you lose that, you're going to have sadness. If you can't have sadness, it means you never attached. If you can't attach, it means you're not in life because it's relational. And if you can't attach, it means you are trying not to care, so you won't have loss. So love is all about a willingness to be.

Sad, absolutely, Yeah, for sure.

Sad, absolutely, Yeah, for sure.

And so if you don't feel, you don't live and you're working against how you're made.

And so if you don't feel, you don't live and you're working against how you're made.

Yeah, And I love how you talk about it's knowing the truth of who you are, right. So it's not that these emotions exist for some of us. They exist for all of us. So if we're not acknowledging them, we are literally hiding from the truth of who we are.

Yeah, And I love how you talk about it's knowing the truth of who you are, right. So it's not that these emotions exist for some of us. They exist for all of us. So if we're not acknowledging them, we are literally hiding from the truth of who we are.

As human.

As human.

Yeah, and I feeding is are energy in motion. Emotion means energy in motion. They're made to take us somewhere. There's so suppression isolates us. Expression connects us. Now, if you're with people who don't do feelings, you're going to be with people who you can't connect with. Now, you might can help them, you can assist them, you might can offer them an invitation, but if they don't take it, then you are alone with them.

Yeah, and I feeding is are energy in motion. Emotion means energy in motion. They're made to take us somewhere. There's so suppression isolates us. Expression connects us. Now, if you're with people who don't do feelings, you're going to be with people who you can't connect with. Now, you might can help them, you can assist them, you might can offer them an invitation, but if they don't take it, then you are alone with them.

Yeah, okay, absolutely, So.

Yeah, okay, absolutely, So.

People who don't do feelings can't do relationship and they can't do life fulfillment. So you've got to be with people who do feelings to find full life. And if somebody is scared and won't admit it, then that person becomes scary because they defend themselves from being known. If you're with somebody who's sad and has lost something but won't connect with you so you can help them, then they're isolated from your care. So sad people who won't admit they're sad leave others sad. I mean, think about marriages, and I know men are mostly associated myth wise with not knowing what to do with feelings or rejecting feeling means and that's because of their toxic shame. But many marriages are so lonely because the men in those marriages don't know how to take their fears to men, their hurts, the men, their sadnesses to men, so they can grow up from the inside out and deliver to their spouses what their spouses need, yeah, which is connection, absolutely, understanding, listening, ears, availability, vulnerability, and that way that that spouse they end up knowing I'm secure, I'm safe, this place is stable, and I can trust this man because he shows.

People who don't do feelings can't do relationship and they can't do life fulfillment. So you've got to be with people who do feelings to find full life. And if somebody is scared and won't admit it, then that person becomes scary because they defend themselves from being known. If you're with somebody who's sad and has lost something but won't connect with you so you can help them, then they're isolated from your care. So sad people who won't admit they're sad leave others sad. I mean, think about marriages, and I know men are mostly associated myth wise with not knowing what to do with feelings or rejecting feeling means and that's because of their toxic shame. But many marriages are so lonely because the men in those marriages don't know how to take their fears to men, their hurts, the men, their sadnesses to men, so they can grow up from the inside out and deliver to their spouses what their spouses need, yeah, which is connection, absolutely, understanding, listening, ears, availability, vulnerability, and that way that that spouse they end up knowing I'm secure, I'm safe, this place is stable, and I can trust this man because he shows.

Up completely absolutely.

Up completely absolutely.

A lot of my friends are still searching for their their mate, their future husband specifically, I mean a men too, But I think you know they have this this idea that everyone who's married or in a relationship has something that they don't have. But look to your point, you can be alone and next to somebody that and feel that aloneness, right, and it's not necessarily a grass is always green on the other side, versus like, hey, if you're on your own and you haven't met your partner yet, you can feel so interconnected to yourself and God and feel so just that sense of self that the person you're comparing yourself to might not be experiencing.

A lot of my friends are still searching for their their mate, their future husband specifically, I mean a men too, But I think you know they have this this idea that everyone who's married or in a relationship has something that they don't have. But look to your point, you can be alone and next to somebody that and feel that aloneness, right, and it's not necessarily a grass is always green on the other side, versus like, hey, if you're on your own and you haven't met your partner yet, you can feel so interconnected to yourself and God and feel so just that sense of self that the person you're comparing yourself to might not be experiencing.

So I think that's that.

So I think that's that.

You don't have to change how God made you to have a spouse that will never know you. Right.

You don't have to change how God made you to have a spouse that will never know you. Right.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

There's a poem that says, I can't even remember who wrote it, but it's the loneliest place I've ever been is with you in.

There's a poem that says, I can't even remember who wrote it, but it's the loneliest place I've ever been is with you in.

The next room. Yeah, which in other.

The next room. Yeah, which in other.

Words, this person I'm married or you know with and he she doesn't know me, and they won't let themselves be known. And when you're not in the house, I can at least fantasize, but then when you come home, I know.

Words, this person I'm married or you know with and he she doesn't know me, and they won't let themselves be known. And when you're not in the house, I can at least fantasize, but then when you come home, I know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm telling.

So I'm telling.

You you need to get okay with you, but you're also made to live fully in relationship. That doesn't mean marriage, right. It means that God may have you in another direction. But if God has you in that direction, it will be okay.

You you need to get okay with you, but you're also made to live fully in relationship. That doesn't mean marriage, right. It means that God may have you in another direction. But if God has you in that direction, it will be okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it means you may grieve or feel pain or welcome to lee.

But it means you may grieve or feel pain or welcome to lee.

And it's something to look for when you're in when you're in the process of finding your mate, is like that knowingness that Okay, I am in the same room with them and I feel interconnected. They get their feelings that I can be with mine because that loneliness within a relationship.

And it's something to look for when you're in when you're in the process of finding your mate, is like that knowingness that Okay, I am in the same room with them and I feel interconnected. They get their feelings that I can be with mine because that loneliness within a relationship.

It's real. I hear it with my clients.

It's real. I hear it with my clients.

All the damage I caused in my own marriage.

All the damage I caused in my own marriage.

I've been married forty two years now, and the damage I caused in my marriage is directly connected to me running from feelings, not taking ownership of feelings, not knowing what to do with feelings, not asking for help with feelings you follow, yep, not being able.

I've been married forty two years now, and the damage I caused in my marriage is directly connected to me running from feelings, not taking ownership of feelings, not knowing what to do with feelings, not asking for help with feelings you follow, yep, not being able.

To offer therefore compassion about hers.

To offer therefore compassion about hers.

I'm not doing feelings. Something's wrong with you for doing feelings. You're being weak. Yeah, And that's where the damage is cased. Absolutely, if you've got a man that won't do feelings, then you've got a man who doesn't have courage, because courage means fullharder participation, which means he's running from and therefore anybody gets close to him.

I'm not doing feelings. Something's wrong with you for doing feelings. You're being weak. Yeah, And that's where the damage is cased. Absolutely, if you've got a man that won't do feelings, then you've got a man who doesn't have courage, because courage means fullharder participation, which means he's running from and therefore anybody gets close to him.

He's got to have control.

He's got to have control.

Yeah, And so you don't need somebody who is controlling. You need somebody who's stable enough to be empowered to make good decisions in the midst of tough things.

Yeah, And so you don't need somebody who is controlling. You need somebody who's stable enough to be empowered to make good decisions in the midst of tough things.

Absolutely, that's not controlling, that's courageous. They'll stand firm for sure.

Absolutely, that's not controlling, that's courageous. They'll stand firm for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I love that distinction.

No, I love that distinction.

We're seeing by the way, we're seeing a movement now where men are like, don't be allied, don't be a sheet, be a lion because of the snowflakes. Guys that are just they're not doing feelings, they're just doing passivity. Yeah, I don't want to throw the you know, the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.

We're seeing by the way, we're seeing a movement now where men are like, don't be allied, don't be a sheet, be a lion because of the snowflakes. Guys that are just they're not doing feelings, they're just doing passivity. Yeah, I don't want to throw the you know, the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.

Guys, come on, come back home to how God may God.

Guys, come on, come back home to how God may God.

It's without getting you know, political or putting labels.

It's without getting you know, political or putting labels.

There's that kind of toxic masculinity that it's like, you know, beat your chest to show how big of a man you are. And it's like, really, like you said, courage of the heart is you know, masculine is when you can be that dance of the masculine, but also the energy of the of the heart, the emotions, the feminine, the femininity of that.

There's that kind of toxic masculinity that it's like, you know, beat your chest to show how big of a man you are. And it's like, really, like you said, courage of the heart is you know, masculine is when you can be that dance of the masculine, but also the energy of the of the heart, the emotions, the feminine, the femininity of that.

Yeah, and when I recognize and so many I've worked with thousands of marriages that the need of the DNA, the need to belong in matter is the same and a woman and the.

Yeah, and when I recognize and so many I've worked with thousands of marriages that the need of the DNA, the need to belong in matter is the same and a woman and the.

Same in a man.

Same in a man.

Absolutely, But the way it's met, the way that need to belong to matter and a woman, most of the time it's met through security, like can I trust you to be stable? And in the man it's met through appreciation. I appreciate you so much for being stable.

Absolutely, But the way it's met, the way that need to belong to matter and a woman, most of the time it's met through security, like can I trust you to be stable? And in the man it's met through appreciation. I appreciate you so much for being stable.

Yes, trust it.

Yes, trust it.

Work symbiotically together.

Work symbiotically together.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

So would you.

So would you.

Say there's an emotion among the eight that you think most people are resistant to embracing and why do you think that is and what's the cost of resisting that?

Say there's an emotion among the eight that you think most people are resistant to embracing and why do you think that is and what's the cost of resisting that?

That is a great question. The two things there. One is that personally and individually, the feeling that you're most out of touch with is the one that you're most resistant to.

That is a great question. The two things there. One is that personally and individually, the feeling that you're most out of touch with is the one that you're most resistant to.

Yeah, and the one that you probab need the most.

Yeah, and the one that you probab need the most.

It is and it's the one that's actually controlling your life.

It is and it's the one that's actually controlling your life.

I mean, I owned a treatment center for twenty two years and we treated doctors, pastors, business people and so on. The people that were considered extremely successful, but they're extremely sick. And it was amazing how the feeling that they were in denial about was the one that was controlling, like hurt one person, sadness another person, fear another person. So but the feeling that I find that most people are resistant to and also ashamed of, okay, which means they think that this makes them sickening, disgusting, pathetic is healthy shame, and healthy shame is the feeling of knowing I'm dependent, like I know I need you. I know I make mistakes, I know I don't have all the answers. I know I'm not God like, Oh I'm in trouble. And it's the feeling that is literally the core of what we need to hang on to because it's the feeling makes us all need each.

I mean, I owned a treatment center for twenty two years and we treated doctors, pastors, business people and so on. The people that were considered extremely successful, but they're extremely sick. And it was amazing how the feeling that they were in denial about was the one that was controlling, like hurt one person, sadness another person, fear another person. So but the feeling that I find that most people are resistant to and also ashamed of, okay, which means they think that this makes them sickening, disgusting, pathetic is healthy shame, and healthy shame is the feeling of knowing I'm dependent, like I know I need you. I know I make mistakes, I know I don't have all the answers. I know I'm not God like, Oh I'm in trouble. And it's the feeling that is literally the core of what we need to hang on to because it's the feeling makes us all need each.

Other and connect to each other.

Other and connect to each other.

Absolutely healthy shame is the beginning of caring about other people because I know I'm in need.

Absolutely healthy shame is the beginning of caring about other people because I know I'm in need.

I bet you are too.

I bet you are too.

Absolutely so healthy shame is.

Absolutely so healthy shame is.

Kind of like the feeling that's the fulfillment of that stands it from a small world.

Kind of like the feeling that's the fulfillment of that stands it from a small world.

But shame is something that people feel either feel so kind of embedded in and that takes over their life, or they have shame about their shame because it's like I've.

But shame is something that people feel either feel so kind of embedded in and that takes over their life, or they have shame about their shame because it's like I've.

Taught, you have toxic shame about being dependent. Yeah, and dependency does not make us babies. Dependency grows our strength because it allows us to experience more, be more, be curious, allows us to take risks.

Taught, you have toxic shame about being dependent. Yeah, and dependency does not make us babies. Dependency grows our strength because it allows us to experience more, be more, be curious, allows us to take risks.

Of learning more, finding out more, asking for help growing. Like you know, when.

Of learning more, finding out more, asking for help growing. Like you know, when.

You're a businesswoman who has actually started, I'm sure your audience knows your list, but I mean you had to be needy for that to happen.

You're a businesswoman who has actually started, I'm sure your audience knows your list, but I mean you had to be needy for that to happen.

You had to make mistakes and some of them were kind of like oh.

You had to make mistakes and some of them were kind of like oh.

Boy, yeah, I love that totally.

Boy, yeah, I love that totally.

But kept getting back up, and you had to know I don't have all the answers, but I'll go find them.

But kept getting back up, and you had to know I don't have all the answers, but I'll go find them.

Yeah, And you.

Yeah, And you.

Had to trust God to do for you what you knew you couldn't do for yourself. But that healthy shame, that dependency has grown you into. I mean, come on, yeah, look at you. Some podcasts stuff going on. A book will hopefully eventually come out about what does God had to do with it? And it's gonna basically summed as everything.

Had to trust God to do for you what you knew you couldn't do for yourself. But that healthy shame, that dependency has grown you into. I mean, come on, yeah, look at you. Some podcasts stuff going on. A book will hopefully eventually come out about what does God had to do with it? And it's gonna basically summed as everything.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, I received that healthy shame that drives you.

Yeah, I received that healthy shame that drives you.

Yeah, for sure. And I will say this too.

Yeah, for sure. And I will say this too.

When I notice myself in the thick of things or when I feel disconnected from God, it's because I've switched back into self reliance.

When I notice myself in the thick of things or when I feel disconnected from God, it's because I've switched back into self reliance.

Like it's very black and white for me.

Like it's very black and white for me.

I can see when I've gone from that healthy dependency and that healthy shame over to self reliance and thinking I can do it on my own or just thinking I am on my own right and the pressure is on me, And it's I'm grateful for that distinction because now when I see that I turned to God.

I can see when I've gone from that healthy dependency and that healthy shame over to self reliance and thinking I can do it on my own or just thinking I am on my own right and the pressure is on me, And it's I'm grateful for that distinction because now when I see that I turned to God.

I know the path back.

I know the path back.

You say, God, dependency is how we need to begin every morning. Arts may not grasp it, but please read the voice of the heart. Because if you wake up in the morning, your healthy shame allows you to know that you don't have control of the day, but you're in need. Okay, when a child is born, they've got no problem depending. But what are they depending for? And I know they're depending on the caregivers, but they're depending on them for a reason, for a purpose, so they can go learn how to do this big, bad, tough life with great energy because they want to live.

You say, God, dependency is how we need to begin every morning. Arts may not grasp it, but please read the voice of the heart. Because if you wake up in the morning, your healthy shame allows you to know that you don't have control of the day, but you're in need. Okay, when a child is born, they've got no problem depending. But what are they depending for? And I know they're depending on the caregivers, but they're depending on them for a reason, for a purpose, so they can go learn how to do this big, bad, tough life with great energy because they want to live.

So they're depending so they can have a life to be full.

So they're depending so they can have a life to be full.

And so when we wake up in the morning and we know we don't have control.

And so when we wake up in the morning and we know we don't have control.

Of life, then we need to get with God. And like I'm the child of God. You're God, I'm in.

Of life, then we need to get with God. And like I'm the child of God. You're God, I'm in.

Need of you do for me what I can't do for myself. So we hand God our fear like my neediness. Now God, you hand me, hand me your paw or hand me your presence, hand me you're walking with me, your peace, your prosperity, your shalom. But also it's like I give you my fear now give me my anger, give me my courage, give me my willingness to take risks, because if I know you're with me relationship, I'm going to do things that I wouldn't do by myself.

Need of you do for me what I can't do for myself. So we hand God our fear like my neediness. Now God, you hand me, hand me your paw or hand me your presence, hand me you're walking with me, your peace, your prosperity, your shalom. But also it's like I give you my fear now give me my anger, give me my courage, give me my willingness to take risks, because if I know you're with me relationship, I'm going to do things that I wouldn't do by myself.

Yeah, so you make me big.

Yeah, so you make me big.

And I know I'm not absolutely and it's noticing when we take it back. It's like, Okay, God, I'm taking my fear back. I'm taking my you know, all the things back. It's like, no, it's an exchange. We have to give it back to him.

And I know I'm not absolutely and it's noticing when we take it back. It's like, Okay, God, I'm taking my fear back. I'm taking my you know, all the things back. It's like, no, it's an exchange. We have to give it back to him.

Maybe it's everything. I know what you're talking about. That's right.

Maybe it's everything. I know what you're talking about. That's right.

I believe that so much and we've experienced it. This isn't like a belief.

I believe that so much and we've experienced it. This isn't like a belief.

Sure, this is a this is an experience, absolutely absolutely.

Sure, this is a this is an experience, absolutely absolutely.

So how do you guide somebody who feels overwhelmed by one particular emotion like grief or loneliness and really help them see it as a part of their journey because I think a lot a lot of times what happens is we get identified as grief or we get identified as loneliness, and then it becomes you know, that storyline of old this is just who I am, or this is how it's always going to be. So how do you walk people through that.

So how do you guide somebody who feels overwhelmed by one particular emotion like grief or loneliness and really help them see it as a part of their journey because I think a lot a lot of times what happens is we get identified as grief or we get identified as loneliness, and then it becomes you know, that storyline of old this is just who I am, or this is how it's always going to be. So how do you walk people through that.

I walk people through that by bringing them back to the core eight feelings. Like when a person says I'm in grief, I know they're saying I've experienced loss externally. But see, you can't change your external world necessarily all the time, especially with somebody. Let's just say, use death. A loss is something gone. So I'm in grief. Okay, well that means nothing. I know it sounds crazy, but where are you? Where are you? Within you? What does grief mean to you? And I ask them to use the eight feelings. I say, identify it's not on there when you see yourself in grief? What do you experience on that sheet? And the person may say I believe or not. You would think they'd say sad. Some people will say fear, fear of what that it will last forever. Okay, now you know where you are. Now what do you need to do with your fear? And it's asked questions seek help because each feeling has a direction that it's there to help a person go. But once you identify what you're feeling, you actually know where you are and you're not lost.

I walk people through that by bringing them back to the core eight feelings. Like when a person says I'm in grief, I know they're saying I've experienced loss externally. But see, you can't change your external world necessarily all the time, especially with somebody. Let's just say, use death. A loss is something gone. So I'm in grief. Okay, well that means nothing. I know it sounds crazy, but where are you? Where are you? Within you? What does grief mean to you? And I ask them to use the eight feelings. I say, identify it's not on there when you see yourself in grief? What do you experience on that sheet? And the person may say I believe or not. You would think they'd say sad. Some people will say fear, fear of what that it will last forever. Okay, now you know where you are. Now what do you need to do with your fear? And it's asked questions seek help because each feeling has a direction that it's there to help a person go. But once you identify what you're feeling, you actually know where you are and you're not lost.

Absolutely, it's like a compass guiding it is.

Absolutely, it's like a compass guiding it is.

It's amazing then it's a compass that points you to what you need, and it points you to towards where you need to go to get the need met.

It's amazing then it's a compass that points you to what you need, and it points you to towards where you need to go to get the need met.

And it's an identifier too, again of self awareness, because it's like, do I have fear that I'm always going to feel this way?

And it's an identifier too, again of self awareness, because it's like, do I have fear that I'm always going to feel this way?

Fear of who I'm going to be without this person, you know, fear.

Fear of who I'm going to be without this person, you know, fear.

Of what am I feeling? Exploration where is it coming from? And then expression who do I tell?

Of what am I feeling? Exploration where is it coming from? And then expression who do I tell?

Absolutely?

Absolutely?

Where am I? Where is it coming from? It's this my past? Is this my present? Is this my my thinking? That's distorted? And then where do I go with this?

Where am I? Where is it coming from? It's this my past? Is this my present? Is this my my thinking? That's distorted? And then where do I go with this?

Really? And where do I go as a who? God and others?

Really? And where do I go as a who? God and others?

And that I think dismantle is also the stigma behind feelings too, when you're not used to identifying that. Once you've walked through that, it dismantles the bigness of it.

And that I think dismantle is also the stigma behind feelings too, when you're not used to identifying that. Once you've walked through that, it dismantles the bigness of it.

It really does. And believe it or not, when you break it down into the elements, it sounds weird. But when you're talking about your feelings and you're giving stories around them, that's great. You use the metaphors about them, that's great. If you're saying it's as if that similes that's great. But unless you're naming the feelings of the breaking down to the elements of what you're experiencing, you're still not telling the truth. And so you can't learn how to live in the truth unless you start out with telling the truth.

It really does. And believe it or not, when you break it down into the elements, it sounds weird. But when you're talking about your feelings and you're giving stories around them, that's great. You use the metaphors about them, that's great. If you're saying it's as if that similes that's great. But unless you're naming the feelings of the breaking down to the elements of what you're experiencing, you're still not telling the truth. And so you can't learn how to live in the truth unless you start out with telling the truth.

Absolutely yeah, for sure.

Absolutely yeah, for sure.

Well you're in the dark with what you're really feeling, and then you're calling it something else.

Well you're in the dark with what you're really feeling, and then you're calling it something else.

Yeah, And it's almost like a lie.

Yeah, And it's almost like a lie.

It's you're identifying the effect or the symptom rather than go.

It's you're identifying the effect or the symptom rather than go.

To Taco Bell and order a big Mac and they won't know what you're talking about. So call things what they really are, so you can wind up getting what you really need from.

To Taco Bell and order a big Mac and they won't know what you're talking about. So call things what they really are, so you can wind up getting what you really need from.

Absolutely yeah. It is like a compass, a guidance system.

Absolutely yeah. It is like a compass, a guidance system.

It is. I love it, you said.

It is. I love it, you said.

In fact, I do an actual physical activity with people. It's a boundary work and I'll tell them right, here's your Sturnham. You actually have a compass. You have a gyroscope. You have a Geiger counter which picks up on toxicity. You have a barometer that picks up on pressure and stress around you. So you have this instrument within you, and it's expression, it's identifying characteristic, it's feelings. It's by you knowing what you feel, you also begin to know what to say, like I feel and you name it, and then it say I need or I want or I wish, and you make yourself known. If I make myself known and you reject me being known, I know that I'm with somebody I'm not going to be able to at this point and time be in relationship with like oh wow.