If you want to go on a journey, if you're skeptical, don't worry. Now here to preach, want to keep it clean and talk to me and recalls where faith needs, stops nature and get in touch with your creator with a bacon, love and jew She even speaks Hebrew.

If you want to go on a journey, if you're skeptical, don't worry. Now here to preach, want to keep it clean and talk to me and recalls where faith needs, stops nature and get in touch with your creator with a bacon, love and jew She even speaks Hebrew.

What's that?

What's that?

What's that?

What's that?

As well?

As well?

Send the passion?

Send the passion?

You're talking transformation?

You're talking transformation?

What's that got toto?

What's that got toto?

Well, hello, and welcome back to What's God got to do with It? I am so excited and grateful to be sitting here with my dear friend Maddie Jackson, who is an author, a podcaster.

Well, hello, and welcome back to What's God got to do with It? I am so excited and grateful to be sitting here with my dear friend Maddie Jackson, who is an author, a podcaster.

She's a speaker.

She's a speaker.

She's also co founder of Nashville, which is a women's filmthrop organization that serves orphans, widows and victims of human trafficking. Doing a lot of great work out in the world. But her personal testimony and the stories of trials and tribulations and grief and the overcomings that have come are just beyond anything I've really heard, especially from.

She's also co founder of Nashville, which is a women's filmthrop organization that serves orphans, widows and victims of human trafficking. Doing a lot of great work out in the world. But her personal testimony and the stories of trials and tribulations and grief and the overcomings that have come are just beyond anything I've really heard, especially from.

Somebody that I know.

Somebody that I know.

So that is especially why I want to have here on the podcast.

So that is especially why I want to have here on the podcast.

So first and foremost, Hello.

So first and foremost, Hello.

Hey, I'm so glad to be with you.

Hey, I'm so glad to be with you.

Yeah, so happy to have you here and you know, instead of me sharing what has brought you to who you are and how you've come to be, I'd love to just turn it over to you and just, you know, share with us your story, your journey, what has brought you into the woman that you are, all the good, the bad.

Yeah, so happy to have you here and you know, instead of me sharing what has brought you to who you are and how you've come to be, I'd love to just turn it over to you and just, you know, share with us your story, your journey, what has brought you into the woman that you are, all the good, the bad.

The ugly.

The ugly.

Yeah, yeah, the good, the bad, the ugly.

Yeah, yeah, the good, the bad, the ugly.

I grew up in a home that was all about the Lord, and so I'm thankful to have had that foundation as a kid and as a young woman, and that really.

I grew up in a home that was all about the Lord, and so I'm thankful to have had that foundation as a kid and as a young woman, and that really.

Was always a part of my life.

Was always a part of my life.

But I say that to then say that I think I didn't realize how much richer relationship with God could be until. To be totally honest with you, I desperately needed it. And I think with everything that I've gone through, which I'll share with the listeners, the big thing that I kind of want to tee up is like, no matter what you believe, or where you are, how long you've had faith or not have faith, whatever, even growing up in the church and having faith in God and believing in God, it took a tragedy for me to really want to live my life with God, if that makes sense. Like, and that came through desperation, and I think a lot of times, you know, until your feet are to the fire, you don't know how much you.

But I say that to then say that I think I didn't realize how much richer relationship with God could be until. To be totally honest with you, I desperately needed it. And I think with everything that I've gone through, which I'll share with the listeners, the big thing that I kind of want to tee up is like, no matter what you believe, or where you are, how long you've had faith or not have faith, whatever, even growing up in the church and having faith in God and believing in God, it took a tragedy for me to really want to live my life with God, if that makes sense. Like, and that came through desperation, and I think a lot of times, you know, until your feet are to the fire, you don't know how much you.

Believe or don't believe something. Actually, C. S.

Believe or don't believe something. Actually, C. S.

Lewis says, you don't know if what you believe is true until it's a matter of life and death.

Lewis says, you don't know if what you believe is true until it's a matter of life and death.

Like I butchered that quote, but it's something like that beautifully.

Like I butchered that quote, but it's something like that beautifully.

Yeah. So anyway, the big part of my story is when I was twenty eight.

Yeah. So anyway, the big part of my story is when I was twenty eight.

I just turned twenty eight. Basically everything in my life.

I just turned twenty eight. Basically everything in my life.

That I think I saw as making me valuable ended basically in the span of two months. So like I in my twenties, I'm as somolier, so I'm like a wine professional. I worked in the wine and hospitality industry for most of my twenties, and I had a restaurant here, a wine bar here for a couple of years that I ended up having to close June of twenty eighteen after two years of operation, partly because of financial issues, partly because honestly I was just burnt out on it and I felt very led and almost allowed by God to lay that season down like that. There was something more for me ahead, and so that was kind of a really scary. I want to say leap of faith, but it also felt like a failure in a lot of ways.

That I think I saw as making me valuable ended basically in the span of two months. So like I in my twenties, I'm as somolier, so I'm like a wine professional. I worked in the wine and hospitality industry for most of my twenties, and I had a restaurant here, a wine bar here for a couple of years that I ended up having to close June of twenty eighteen after two years of operation, partly because of financial issues, partly because honestly I was just burnt out on it and I felt very led and almost allowed by God to lay that season down like that. There was something more for me ahead, and so that was kind of a really scary. I want to say leap of faith, but it also felt like a failure in a lot of ways.

But I knew it was the right thing.

But I knew it was the right thing.

And then honestly had a wonderful summer with my kind of new husband.

And then honestly had a wonderful summer with my kind of new husband.

We had been married about eight or nine months at that point.

We had been married about eight or nine months at that point.

And then in August, really Labor Day weekend of that same summer, been and I, my husband and I and my two sisters and some friends went down to Florida for the weekend. A lot of them had birthdays that same week, so we were celebrating and we go down there a lot. My dad's a big fisherman, so he has a lovely boat down there, and we went out on the boat for like a sunset cruise and went to this little tiki bar that we grew up going to after we'd go fishing, you know, with him, and got dinner and drinks and they had a band dancing. It was just like a beautiful night. And so we go to get back up on the boat to ride back to our hotel, and you're from Florida, you know, it's like ten minutes random thunderstorms.

And then in August, really Labor Day weekend of that same summer, been and I, my husband and I and my two sisters and some friends went down to Florida for the weekend. A lot of them had birthdays that same week, so we were celebrating and we go down there a lot. My dad's a big fisherman, so he has a lovely boat down there, and we went out on the boat for like a sunset cruise and went to this little tiki bar that we grew up going to after we'd go fishing, you know, with him, and got dinner and drinks and they had a band dancing. It was just like a beautiful night. And so we go to get back up on the boat to ride back to our hotel, and you're from Florida, you know, it's like ten minutes random thunderstorms.

And then it's gone and then it's over.

And then it's gone and then it's over.

So there had been a random thunderstorm, so those steps to get back up on the boat were a little wet, and Ben rushed over to sort of help some of us get up on the boat, and his sandal hit the steps and he just slipped and fell back and hit his head on the dock, which was concrete, and obviously alarmed, like he kind of went out for a second, but he came back to you know, we rush over to make sure, you know, he's okay, and really didn't feel that panicked about it. Kind of looked like any like football game you know you've gone to, and they kind of shake it off and get up and and so really, by God's grace, there were two off duty EMTs there at the marina and they saw him fall into the rush over and kind of checked him out and they said, you know, this could be a lot more serious than it looks. You need to probably go to the hospital. And so they called an ambulance for me. Like, again, I'm out of town. I have no idea what the hospitals even are. So they told me, like, this is one you want to go to, and we went and so I was like, no big deal, Like they're just going to watch him overnight. Long story short, the neurosurgeon comes in. This is gosh, in the middle of the night. At this point, I'm terrified. Everybody else's you know, taking two hours to get back to hotels, and nobody's with me, and Ben's kind of coming in and out of consciousness, and he said, you know, we don't have to do brain surgery yet, but we're it's very likely we're going to have to in the next you know, twenty four hours, and talk about like shocking you into reality. So from there he was awake for the first twenty four hours, again kind of in and out of consciousness, which was a gift because he was able to kind of converse with me and have that last little bit. And he ended up being in the ICU there for twelve days and multiple brain surgeries and medically induced coma, and on the eleventh day they were gonna start pulling him out of the coma. They said, you know, his brain swelling has been stable, We're gonna wake him up. And meanwhile, you know, my biggest fear at this point is is he gonna wake up the same man that I married? Because there was never even talk of this being a fatal injury. Everything that they were warning me of is that, hey, the parts of his brain that are injured control personality and judgment and temper. And so I'm thinking, like, please God, let this be the same joyful man you know that I married. And if he's not, like, this is my life, you know, ahead of me. And and so, you know, death wasn't even really on the radar. And so we're talking to the to the neurosurgeon and she says, we're gonna wake him up. And Ben's dad point blank asked her, like, is this still fatal? And she said, I can't tell you no, but from a neurological standpoint, it's very unlikely.

So there had been a random thunderstorm, so those steps to get back up on the boat were a little wet, and Ben rushed over to sort of help some of us get up on the boat, and his sandal hit the steps and he just slipped and fell back and hit his head on the dock, which was concrete, and obviously alarmed, like he kind of went out for a second, but he came back to you know, we rush over to make sure, you know, he's okay, and really didn't feel that panicked about it. Kind of looked like any like football game you know you've gone to, and they kind of shake it off and get up and and so really, by God's grace, there were two off duty EMTs there at the marina and they saw him fall into the rush over and kind of checked him out and they said, you know, this could be a lot more serious than it looks. You need to probably go to the hospital. And so they called an ambulance for me. Like, again, I'm out of town. I have no idea what the hospitals even are. So they told me, like, this is one you want to go to, and we went and so I was like, no big deal, Like they're just going to watch him overnight. Long story short, the neurosurgeon comes in. This is gosh, in the middle of the night. At this point, I'm terrified. Everybody else's you know, taking two hours to get back to hotels, and nobody's with me, and Ben's kind of coming in and out of consciousness, and he said, you know, we don't have to do brain surgery yet, but we're it's very likely we're going to have to in the next you know, twenty four hours, and talk about like shocking you into reality. So from there he was awake for the first twenty four hours, again kind of in and out of consciousness, which was a gift because he was able to kind of converse with me and have that last little bit. And he ended up being in the ICU there for twelve days and multiple brain surgeries and medically induced coma, and on the eleventh day they were gonna start pulling him out of the coma. They said, you know, his brain swelling has been stable, We're gonna wake him up. And meanwhile, you know, my biggest fear at this point is is he gonna wake up the same man that I married? Because there was never even talk of this being a fatal injury. Everything that they were warning me of is that, hey, the parts of his brain that are injured control personality and judgment and temper. And so I'm thinking, like, please God, let this be the same joyful man you know that I married. And if he's not, like, this is my life, you know, ahead of me. And and so, you know, death wasn't even really on the radar. And so we're talking to the to the neurosurgeon and she says, we're gonna wake him up. And Ben's dad point blank asked her, like, is this still fatal? And she said, I can't tell you no, but from a neurological standpoint, it's very unlikely.

So we're like yes.

So we're like yes.

So she says we have to do one more MRI, like going to check everything, and then we're gonna start.

So she says we have to do one more MRI, like going to check everything, and then we're gonna start.

Waking him up.

Waking him up.

And she comes back and she says he's had multiple strokes, like there's no way for us to know because he was in a coma, but like, he's brain dead. Here are your options, and obviously you know the options aren't options. So at that point, you know, it's late in the day, it's been eleven days, We're exhausted, scared, and you know, I told his mom and dad, who had been there the whole time. I said, I think we need just just go back, like he's fine, like his body is fine. I need to pray, I need to sleep. Like we can't. I'm not gonna, you know, we just I can't. I can't make that decision. And so we went back and that was literally my prayer was obviously, like Lord, save him, like make him a miracle story.

And she comes back and she says he's had multiple strokes, like there's no way for us to know because he was in a coma, but like, he's brain dead. Here are your options, and obviously you know the options aren't options. So at that point, you know, it's late in the day, it's been eleven days, We're exhausted, scared, and you know, I told his mom and dad, who had been there the whole time. I said, I think we need just just go back, like he's fine, like his body is fine. I need to pray, I need to sleep. Like we can't. I'm not gonna, you know, we just I can't. I can't make that decision. And so we went back and that was literally my prayer was obviously, like Lord, save him, like make him a miracle story.

And I believed that. I believe that like with everything in me.

And I believed that. I believe that like with everything in me.

But also my prayer was, don't make me choose this, like, don't make me take him off life support. And if you're gonna do it, you have to do it. And so we went to bed and the nurses called me in the middle of night and said, hey, his heart's failing. You know, if y'all can get here, we can keep them alive. And we got there and he was alive for about ten or fifteen minutes.

But also my prayer was, don't make me choose this, like, don't make me take him off life support. And if you're gonna do it, you have to do it. And so we went to bed and the nurses called me in the middle of night and said, hey, his heart's failing. You know, if y'all can get here, we can keep them alive. And we got there and he was alive for about ten or fifteen minutes.

And you just don't, like.

And you just don't, like.

Like, even when I tell you that story, it's like it feels like an out of body experience to be in that room. And that was five years ago, actually last week at the time we're recording this, and it was three weeks before our first wedding anniversary. So it was just the most unexpected I mean, you never expect that to.

Like, even when I tell you that story, it's like it feels like an out of body experience to be in that room. And that was five years ago, actually last week at the time we're recording this, and it was three weeks before our first wedding anniversary. So it was just the most unexpected I mean, you never expect that to.

Be you, right, yeah, yeah, and yeah.

Be you, right, yeah, yeah, and yeah.

So absolutely wow.

So absolutely wow.

And I mean it's so interesting too that within this time of the tumultuous grief that you were experiencing, in the midst of it, afterwards, your first instinct was to pray. Your first instinct was to ask God. And interestingly enough, like there was a prayer that wasn't answered right, and then there was a prayer that was where It's like, God, I don't want to make this decision on my own, and he really took that from you. But you know, this is the time when I feel like people actually turn away from God. They get mad at God, they get hurt, they get burned God, how could you let this happen to me?

And I mean it's so interesting too that within this time of the tumultuous grief that you were experiencing, in the midst of it, afterwards, your first instinct was to pray. Your first instinct was to ask God. And interestingly enough, like there was a prayer that wasn't answered right, and then there was a prayer that was where It's like, God, I don't want to make this decision on my own, and he really took that from you. But you know, this is the time when I feel like people actually turn away from God. They get mad at God, they get hurt, they get burned God, how could you let this happen to me?

Why?

Why?

Me?

Me?

And then they fall back into stories of you know, well maybe I'm not supposed to be happy, I'm not supposed.

And then they fall back into stories of you know, well maybe I'm not supposed to be happy, I'm not supposed.

To have everything. Did that show up for you?

To have everything. Did that show up for you?

Was there like even a crossroads of that, and like, what do you think pulled you back into your purful life?

Was there like even a crossroads of that, and like, what do you think pulled you back into your purful life?

And what was that first?

And what was that first?

You know, I'm curious, you know about the first week, the first month, that like, can you.

You know, I'm curious, you know about the first week, the first month, that like, can you.

Just kind of walk us through that.

Just kind of walk us through that.

I definitely felt all those things and definitely went through seasons of dow like disappointment, anger, confusion, and honestly, the way that I opened my book, I did write a book about this whole experience of the grief of battling with you know, these things that I had believed and really stood on all my life that felt like, to be quite honest, they just like let me down. And I kind of opened the book saying, like, after that happened, after he passed and we went back that night, I sat on the balcony of this hotel room looking at the ocean that next morning, with the Bible clothes that I had carried all over that hospital for twelve days, you know, and like it had.

I definitely felt all those things and definitely went through seasons of dow like disappointment, anger, confusion, and honestly, the way that I opened my book, I did write a book about this whole experience of the grief of battling with you know, these things that I had believed and really stood on all my life that felt like, to be quite honest, they just like let me down. And I kind of opened the book saying, like, after that happened, after he passed and we went back that night, I sat on the balcony of this hotel room looking at the ocean that next morning, with the Bible clothes that I had carried all over that hospital for twelve days, you know, and like it had.

The scriptures I had prayed.

The scriptures I had prayed.

Over him, and had the hymns that we had sung over him, and everything that we stood on and fought with. Not because like you're supposed to earn God's yes to your prayer, absolutely not, but that's our lifeblood.

Over him, and had the hymns that we had sung over him, and everything that we stood on and fought with. Not because like you're supposed to earn God's yes to your prayer, absolutely not, but that's our lifeblood.

That's what we believe. And the God that I trusted could have saved.

That's what we believe. And the God that I trusted could have saved.

Ben, and I knew that, and so it's almost harder to still know that he could have spared him the slip, spared him the fall, like made him the miracle story, and know that he could, and also know that he didn't. And so that Bible I carried all over the hospital set next to me closed because it had let me down and I didn't feel comfort in it in that moment, and the immediate gift of how did you come back to that?

Ben, and I knew that, and so it's almost harder to still know that he could have spared him the slip, spared him the fall, like made him the miracle story, and know that he could, and also know that he didn't. And so that Bible I carried all over the hospital set next to me closed because it had let me down and I didn't feel comfort in it in that moment, and the immediate gift of how did you come back to that?

Was?

Was?

Of course I was getting all these texts and calls that I didn't even look at. And for some reason, one of Ben's cousins, who is a pastor. He's really he's a dentist, but he's also a pastor and he had done our wedding he married us, called and I answered his call, and he he just said, first of all, he just said.

Of course I was getting all these texts and calls that I didn't even look at. And for some reason, one of Ben's cousins, who is a pastor. He's really he's a dentist, but he's also a pastor and he had done our wedding he married us, called and I answered his call, and he he just said, first of all, he just said.

Buddy, we love you like we've been praying all night.

Buddy, we love you like we've been praying all night.

And he said, I just need you to remember that when Ben took his last breath in your arms, he took his first breath with Jesus, and that is the only thing that gets you through those first moments. This is this is not an alter call. I'm just telling you, like h he reminded me of that. It wasn't even like God's good enough to carry you through this. It was like the person you love more than anything in this world just one lottery man like, his pain is gone, his worries are gone, his anxieties are gone. Man Like, he's perfect. He's doing cartwheels like he's great. And when you love somebody that much, I had to let feeling joyful for Ben be more and have more weight than how broken and mad I felt for me. And that's what I've told people is like, if my testimony and my story had one message, it's like when you sit, you know, at the front row and speak at eulogy at your twenty eight year old husband's funeral, like the fact that because of Jesus, he's good and I'll see him again, Like that's the only thing that makes you survive.

And he said, I just need you to remember that when Ben took his last breath in your arms, he took his first breath with Jesus, and that is the only thing that gets you through those first moments. This is this is not an alter call. I'm just telling you, like h he reminded me of that. It wasn't even like God's good enough to carry you through this. It was like the person you love more than anything in this world just one lottery man like, his pain is gone, his worries are gone, his anxieties are gone. Man Like, he's perfect. He's doing cartwheels like he's great. And when you love somebody that much, I had to let feeling joyful for Ben be more and have more weight than how broken and mad I felt for me. And that's what I've told people is like, if my testimony and my story had one message, it's like when you sit, you know, at the front row and speak at eulogy at your twenty eight year old husband's funeral, like the fact that because of Jesus, he's good and I'll see him again, Like that's the only thing that makes you survive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely, Yeah, And that was a choice in that moment to almost have that payoff of like, listen, I'm here and I'm in my grief and I'm present to that, but I'm allowing right now to be so much more present to the joy that I feel for my husband that just passed away.

Absolutely, Yeah, And that was a choice in that moment to almost have that payoff of like, listen, I'm here and I'm in my grief and I'm present to that, but I'm allowing right now to be so much more present to the joy that I feel for my husband that just passed away.

And coming back.

And coming back.

To something full circle that you said at the beginning of this, where you know the desperation is what really it was almost like a new relationship with God. So you know, when we talk about that desperation for you, what was it like. Was there a moment of awareness of like, God, I'm only going to get through this with you. Was there a were you able to even call it desperation? Is that a hindsight thing like what were those few weeks looking like for you? Or when did you kind of come back and reconnect with God as the new discovery that in your heart?

To something full circle that you said at the beginning of this, where you know the desperation is what really it was almost like a new relationship with God. So you know, when we talk about that desperation for you, what was it like. Was there a moment of awareness of like, God, I'm only going to get through this with you. Was there a were you able to even call it desperation? Is that a hindsight thing like what were those few weeks looking like for you? Or when did you kind of come back and reconnect with God as the new discovery that in your heart?

It it became.

It it became.

When did you kind of come back and reconnect with God as the new discovery that in your heart?

When did you kind of come back and reconnect with God as the new discovery that in your heart?

It it became.

It it became.

I don't know if it's hindsight recognizing desperation, but it's definitely what it felt like for a long time. I do remember saying to myself, as angry as I was, that the answer to the safe Him prayer was not yes, And as angry as I was that all I got was eleven months with him, I remember thinking, like I still have to deal with this, Like me being angry is not going to bring Ben back. Me being angry is not going to heal me. You know, it's not going to fix what's broken. And so if I have to deal with this. The God that I have known my whole life is the only thing that's gonna equip me to do it. Like I'm a very strong, hard headed person, like I can do most things, Like I don't look at much and be like, probably can't do that. That's maybe a proach, maybe a con But this was a thing that I was looking and I was like, there's no way I can do this.

I don't know if it's hindsight recognizing desperation, but it's definitely what it felt like for a long time. I do remember saying to myself, as angry as I was, that the answer to the safe Him prayer was not yes, And as angry as I was that all I got was eleven months with him, I remember thinking, like I still have to deal with this, Like me being angry is not going to bring Ben back. Me being angry is not going to heal me. You know, it's not going to fix what's broken. And so if I have to deal with this. The God that I have known my whole life is the only thing that's gonna equip me to do it. Like I'm a very strong, hard headed person, like I can do most things, Like I don't look at much and be like, probably can't do that. That's maybe a proach, maybe a con But this was a thing that I was looking and I was like, there's no way I can do this.

And I just knew.

And I just knew.

I was like, whether I feel happy with him or not, the God that I know, who has been with me my whole life is the actual only way I'm going to survive this and be any sort of a human living any sort of a life that I want. Wow, I mean it really was desperation. It was like you are the only tool, and I'm not thrilled about it. I don't feel joyful about it, but I know in my mind it's the only way that I'm ever going to live a life that I want to live again.

I was like, whether I feel happy with him or not, the God that I know, who has been with me my whole life is the actual only way I'm going to survive this and be any sort of a human living any sort of a life that I want. Wow, I mean it really was desperation. It was like you are the only tool, and I'm not thrilled about it. I don't feel joyful about it, but I know in my mind it's the only way that I'm ever going to live a life that I want to live again.

Yeah, and how did you find what that looked like for you?

Yeah, and how did you find what that looked like for you?

I know that Bible that you said you carried around the hospital, it was this closed book. It was almost like a reminder of the anger and so something shifted in you that made you go back home to God and say, Okay, God, like this sucks.

I know that Bible that you said you carried around the hospital, it was this closed book. It was almost like a reminder of the anger and so something shifted in you that made you go back home to God and say, Okay, God, like this sucks.

But you're the only thing that's going to get me through this right now.

But you're the only thing that's going to get me through this right now.

And there was that level of awareness, right So then, like, how did you start showing up?

And there was that level of awareness, right So then, like, how did you start showing up?

How did that look like when you.

How did that look like when you.

Went to God in your desperation and asked him to hold space for it and support you and put his arms around you. And I don't know if at what point in time you asked him to redeem this, you know, but what did that look like practically for you really coming out of this almost cocoon of grief and really the shock and you know, not even necessarily knowing how to respond to it, this whole new life on your own without Ben. What did that look like practically as you developed this new chapter of a relationship with God?

Went to God in your desperation and asked him to hold space for it and support you and put his arms around you. And I don't know if at what point in time you asked him to redeem this, you know, but what did that look like practically for you really coming out of this almost cocoon of grief and really the shock and you know, not even necessarily knowing how to respond to it, this whole new life on your own without Ben. What did that look like practically as you developed this new chapter of a relationship with God?

Practically the things that help you stay connected to the Lord, for him to pour into you, to give you energy and resilience and hope and all those things that you need to navigate something you know, heartbreaking, They're hard to do at the beginning, is what I want to say. Like, first of all, your mind is not clear, right, You're emotionally exhausted, you're running on adrenaline, you're you feel drained in every capacity, and so it's hard to read scripture, it's hard to go to church. I couldn't go back to church for a long time because I was so emotional about it, like I just would have meltdowns. And also I didn't want to go by myself, like that was heartbreaking. So I just want to validate, like if that's really hard for you, then that's fine, Like do what you need to do, like listen to I think I started by listening to worship music was like the easiest thing for me to do because it put words to words that I couldn't find, and so I think I started there, and then I was able to really just go to scripture and read stories in the Bible. And the reason being I needed to see hope in other people's story, Like I didn't see hope in my story. I don't know that I trusted the redemption for me yet at that point, and so where I started to seek God was really trying to see hope in other people's stories like mine. And I mean that realistically, in like women that I met right off the bat. That was a gift that we had been widowed young who were five, ten, fifteen years down the road. So I could see hope in their story and think, Okay, maybe this could happen for me. And then I could see hope in people's stories in the Bible, like Job and David and.

Practically the things that help you stay connected to the Lord, for him to pour into you, to give you energy and resilience and hope and all those things that you need to navigate something you know, heartbreaking, They're hard to do at the beginning, is what I want to say. Like, first of all, your mind is not clear, right, You're emotionally exhausted, you're running on adrenaline, you're you feel drained in every capacity, and so it's hard to read scripture, it's hard to go to church. I couldn't go back to church for a long time because I was so emotional about it, like I just would have meltdowns. And also I didn't want to go by myself, like that was heartbreaking. So I just want to validate, like if that's really hard for you, then that's fine, Like do what you need to do, like listen to I think I started by listening to worship music was like the easiest thing for me to do because it put words to words that I couldn't find, and so I think I started there, and then I was able to really just go to scripture and read stories in the Bible. And the reason being I needed to see hope in other people's story, Like I didn't see hope in my story. I don't know that I trusted the redemption for me yet at that point, and so where I started to seek God was really trying to see hope in other people's stories like mine. And I mean that realistically, in like women that I met right off the bat. That was a gift that we had been widowed young who were five, ten, fifteen years down the road. So I could see hope in their story and think, Okay, maybe this could happen for me. And then I could see hope in people's stories in the Bible, like Job and David and.

You people like you open the Bible.

You people like you open the Bible.

Yeah, it's hard stuff, man, Like you see people suffering, You see people be frustrated with God and all of the things that we feel as humans that we think.

Yeah, it's hard stuff, man, Like you see people suffering, You see people be frustrated with God and all of the things that we feel as humans that we think.

Oh, you're not being a good Christian.

Oh, you're not being a good Christian.

I feel the no, Like these guys struggled, they suffered, they questioned, they didn't get the answers, you know, and you see God be kind to them, and you see him restore and bring goodness in ways that doesn't make sense. And when you see that in other people's stories, in scripture or in life, it gave me the energy to keep hoping that it could be true for me.

I feel the no, Like these guys struggled, they suffered, they questioned, they didn't get the answers, you know, and you see God be kind to them, and you see him restore and bring goodness in ways that doesn't make sense. And when you see that in other people's stories, in scripture or in life, it gave me the energy to keep hoping that it could be true for me.

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah, when you were saying that, I was wondering if it was.

Yeah, when you were saying that, I was wondering if it was.

Job.

Job.

Joe was one of the first Old Testament stories I read, and it was one of those things for me, I'm like, yeah, I know, I don't know how I feel about this. Old Testament's not there's job. No, thank you exactly, but it did show me like, even on my most hard days and heart is all subjective to each person and individualized, and not to minimize anyone else's pain, because pain is pain.

Joe was one of the first Old Testament stories I read, and it was one of those things for me, I'm like, yeah, I know, I don't know how I feel about this. Old Testament's not there's job. No, thank you exactly, but it did show me like, even on my most hard days and heart is all subjective to each person and individualized, and not to minimize anyone else's pain, because pain is pain.

But it was a depiction of like, Okay, if job, can you stay faithful in this?

But it was a depiction of like, Okay, if job, can you stay faithful in this?

But that being said, you said there was you know, you met other widows that had been kind of further down the road and their grief and their journey and the restoration process, and you.

But that being said, you said there was you know, you met other widows that had been kind of further down the road and their grief and their journey and the restoration process, and you.

Called that a gift. Did you go seek that out?

Called that a gift. Did you go seek that out?

Or was that gifts from God that people place, that He placed people in your life?

Or was that gifts from God that people place, that He placed people in your life?

No, I mean it was truly gifts from God. I will say that between I mentioned closing my restaurant. Between the point of closing that in June of twenty eighteen and been passing away in September of twenty eighteen, I had been approached by a friend of a friend who was wanting to start now Vill. You mentioned the beginning just a women's philanthropic organization. So I had been working with her on that over the course of the summer, which was really cool. I didn't really know. I didn't seek it out. She was an adoptive mom, and so that was sort of her heart behind it. She wanted to serve foster care, adoption, that sort of thing. And so over the course of kind of building that up with her, we had decided, this is so crazy. We had decided strictly because scripture says it, we wanted more than one mission to get back to, and so over and over in the Bible it says take care of orphans and widows, take care of orphans and widows, And we both growing up the church kind of knew that and we were like, man, I guess, like, I guess that's a second group that we need to serve. Like again, at this point, I'm twenty eight, she's thirty, like I'm a newlywed.

No, I mean it was truly gifts from God. I will say that between I mentioned closing my restaurant. Between the point of closing that in June of twenty eighteen and been passing away in September of twenty eighteen, I had been approached by a friend of a friend who was wanting to start now Vill. You mentioned the beginning just a women's philanthropic organization. So I had been working with her on that over the course of the summer, which was really cool. I didn't really know. I didn't seek it out. She was an adoptive mom, and so that was sort of her heart behind it. She wanted to serve foster care, adoption, that sort of thing. And so over the course of kind of building that up with her, we had decided, this is so crazy. We had decided strictly because scripture says it, we wanted more than one mission to get back to, and so over and over in the Bible it says take care of orphans and widows, take care of orphans and widows, And we both growing up the church kind of knew that and we were like, man, I guess, like, I guess that's a second group that we need to serve. Like again, at this point, I'm twenty eight, she's thirty, like I'm a newlywed.

And we're like literally said, we'll.

And we're like literally said, we'll.

Just put that on the back burner, like I feel like we need to do it, but we have no idea what that means or looks like. And then we ended up working with trafficking victims and survivors as well because that been worked with them actually as an attorney here in Nashville. But so because of that, in hindsight, I see the kindness of God setting up this organization where Okay, we think we're gonna come in as young women and serve what eighty year old widows at the nursing home is probably like what we had in our head. And God was setting up a platform for me to not only have prepared access to these groups that we now work with that serve widows, but also he was setting me up to walk it in real time in front of people. And I only say that because my biggest, one of my biggest fears was and this was a prayer I pray, an angry prayer, angry prayer, I.

Just put that on the back burner, like I feel like we need to do it, but we have no idea what that means or looks like. And then we ended up working with trafficking victims and survivors as well because that been worked with them actually as an attorney here in Nashville. But so because of that, in hindsight, I see the kindness of God setting up this organization where Okay, we think we're gonna come in as young women and serve what eighty year old widows at the nursing home is probably like what we had in our head. And God was setting up a platform for me to not only have prepared access to these groups that we now work with that serve widows, but also he was setting me up to walk it in real time in front of people. And I only say that because my biggest, one of my biggest fears was and this was a prayer I pray, an angry prayer, angry prayer, I.

Pray a lot.

Pray a lot.

Was God, this has to have purpose like this, I'm not doing this and it's not gonna help people. Like that's the only way that I can feel okay about the fact that you made me do this.

Was God, this has to have purpose like this, I'm not doing this and it's not gonna help people. Like that's the only way that I can feel okay about the fact that you made me do this.

And that may be entitled and that is probably not on it.

And that may be entitled and that is probably not on it.

I think it is very human of you, but it was.

I think it is very human of you, but it was.

And I was like, you have to make this.

And I was like, you have to make this.

No, I don't want to say worth, it is not the right word, but you have to bring purpose from this for me to like forgive you, to be honest, not that God needs our forgiveness, but I needed to know, like there is good that's going to come from this, from our marriage, from Ben's death, from my pain, and so for him to have prepared that organization and that space for me to feel purposeful immediately in my pain, and for me to have access to these these groups that we work with, and these older women who I would have never known how to find, step into my life and just immediately start walking it with me. Like it's just unreal, Like I tell it to you and I'm like, this is a made up story, but it all happened.

No, I don't want to say worth, it is not the right word, but you have to bring purpose from this for me to like forgive you, to be honest, not that God needs our forgiveness, but I needed to know, like there is good that's going to come from this, from our marriage, from Ben's death, from my pain, and so for him to have prepared that organization and that space for me to feel purposeful immediately in my pain, and for me to have access to these these groups that we work with, and these older women who I would have never known how to find, step into my life and just immediately start walking it with me. Like it's just unreal, Like I tell it to you and I'm like, this is a made up story, but it all happened.

Yeah, And it's such a beautiful picture of you know, you just being you're also humaning your way through this in this in this spiritual space and giving yourself permission to be like, you know what, God, I know, I don't air quotes, you don't need my forgiveness, but like I feel like I need to go through this process of forgiveness and there's anger and just letting yourself be human about it. I think a lot of people think, like, no, I'm I'm not supposed to be mad at God or need forgiveness or whatever, and it's like.

Yeah, And it's such a beautiful picture of you know, you just being you're also humaning your way through this in this in this spiritual space and giving yourself permission to be like, you know what, God, I know, I don't air quotes, you don't need my forgiveness, but like I feel like I need to go through this process of forgiveness and there's anger and just letting yourself be human about it. I think a lot of people think, like, no, I'm I'm not supposed to be mad at God or need forgiveness or whatever, and it's like.

No, you're You're human. You're a human, you know, and giving yourself that space.

No, you're You're human. You're a human, you know, and giving yourself that space.

So for anybody who's listening, and they have been through the depths of hell, and they've had their own experiences of loss and grief and you know, transition and just so unexpected curveballs that can give us this gamut of emotions.

So for anybody who's listening, and they have been through the depths of hell, and they've had their own experiences of loss and grief and you know, transition and just so unexpected curveballs that can give us this gamut of emotions.

You know, I'm curious to know what would you say.

You know, I'm curious to know what would you say.

To anybody who just doesn't feel like getting out of bed some days, or feels like maybe they've lost that connection with God?

To anybody who just doesn't feel like getting out of bed some days, or feels like maybe they've lost that connection with God?

You know, what would you say to them?

You know, what would you say to them?

And what did that look like practically for you rebuilding your life? What would you say to anybody who just doesn't feel like getting out of bed some days or feels like maybe they've lost that connection with God?

And what did that look like practically for you rebuilding your life? What would you say to anybody who just doesn't feel like getting out of bed some days or feels like maybe they've lost that connection with God?

You know, what would you say to them?

You know, what would you say to them?

And what did that look like practically for you rebuilding your life?

And what did that look like practically for you rebuilding your life?

I think the big thing that I would tell people practically is literally, try as hard as you can to just do twenty four hours at a time. It's very easy in the depths to spiral into okay, but what about that thing that for us even it was like what about that thing we had planned?

I think the big thing that I would tell people practically is literally, try as hard as you can to just do twenty four hours at a time. It's very easy in the depths to spiral into okay, but what about that thing that for us even it was like what about that thing we had planned?

Like what about the kids we wanted?

Like what about the kids we wanted?

What about you know, and you spiral into the future and there is a moment to at least in a situation like this grieve You have to grieve the future you imagined, but you don't have to do it today. You know, like twenty four hours is hard enough, like spiritually, emotionally, physically, if you can't get up out of that bed. And I say that from experience, and I also say it because God says it. He says, my mercies are new every single morning, and like they really are. Talk about something else I still don't understand. But it's like if you get up and you literally ask God whether you have a good relationship or any relationship, he still made you. He's still listening no matter how you feel and say God, you say your mercies. Now every morning you say, you have enough for us for twenty four hours. Give me what I need for twenty four hours. It is a miracle that happens, Like you can survive twenty four hours and at the end of the day, like your tank's probably shot and you're like, there's no way I can do this again tomorrow.

What about you know, and you spiral into the future and there is a moment to at least in a situation like this grieve You have to grieve the future you imagined, but you don't have to do it today. You know, like twenty four hours is hard enough, like spiritually, emotionally, physically, if you can't get up out of that bed. And I say that from experience, and I also say it because God says it. He says, my mercies are new every single morning, and like they really are. Talk about something else I still don't understand. But it's like if you get up and you literally ask God whether you have a good relationship or any relationship, he still made you. He's still listening no matter how you feel and say God, you say your mercies. Now every morning you say, you have enough for us for twenty four hours. Give me what I need for twenty four hours. It is a miracle that happens, Like you can survive twenty four hours and at the end of the day, like your tank's probably shot and you're like, there's no way I can do this again tomorrow.

But you can't. And so that would be the practical thing is like just.

But you can't. And so that would be the practical thing is like just.

Ask, like no matter what you believe or how you feel, like He made you, he loves you, like he wants to help you survive, like and so it is a twenty four hour thing, and that's what I would do practically, And then whatever you can do, however small, even if it feels minuscular, meaningless, to give a little I don't even want to say joy, but that is what it is.

Ask, like no matter what you believe or how you feel, like He made you, he loves you, like he wants to help you survive, like and so it is a twenty four hour thing, and that's what I would do practically, And then whatever you can do, however small, even if it feels minuscular, meaningless, to give a little I don't even want to say joy, but that is what it is.

It's not going to feel like joy.

It's not going to feel like joy.

It's just going to feel like a tiny burst of energy, like whatever your practical things are. So for me, I have always loved cooking, and after been diet, you know, people are so kind they bring you food. You don't you have any energy, your motivation to do anything. But I realized if I can even once a week take two minutes to google a recipe or find something, even if it's five ingredients and make it, it gave me a little burst because I was being creative and it just gave me something to choose joy. That's I have a podcast now called Enjoy Life, and that's really where it came from, because I never realized the agency we have to choose tiny joys and how powerful that is in the good seasons, but especially in the hard seasons.

It's just going to feel like a tiny burst of energy, like whatever your practical things are. So for me, I have always loved cooking, and after been diet, you know, people are so kind they bring you food. You don't you have any energy, your motivation to do anything. But I realized if I can even once a week take two minutes to google a recipe or find something, even if it's five ingredients and make it, it gave me a little burst because I was being creative and it just gave me something to choose joy. That's I have a podcast now called Enjoy Life, and that's really where it came from, because I never realized the agency we have to choose tiny joys and how powerful that is in the good seasons, but especially in the hard seasons.

Because nothing.

Because nothing.

I wasn't happy about anything, you know, I wasn't happy about my life but I could choose tiny things songs, taking a walk, cooking, watching something stupid on TV, Like, just do tiny things that give you a burst of energy, a burst of joy, because you don't, you know, you have to start small.

I wasn't happy about anything, you know, I wasn't happy about my life but I could choose tiny things songs, taking a walk, cooking, watching something stupid on TV, Like, just do tiny things that give you a burst of energy, a burst of joy, because you don't, you know, you have to start small.

I mean that seems silly. I don't feel like that's super found.

I mean that seems silly. I don't feel like that's super found.

But two really important distinctions, you know. The first one was, you know, there's a big difference between telling ourselves what we think we know versus asking, right, And so the first part that you shared, you know, instead of telling yourself, like I can't get through another day, I can't do this, I can't get out of bed, you're asking for God, Hey, God, help me meet me here in this twenty four hour show me what I can't, what I don't know, show me what I can't do you know, and show me how to do it, you know, through your strength, not my own. So the big distinction of like telling yourself what you think you already know versus asking, it's.

But two really important distinctions, you know. The first one was, you know, there's a big difference between telling ourselves what we think we know versus asking, right, And so the first part that you shared, you know, instead of telling yourself, like I can't get through another day, I can't do this, I can't get out of bed, you're asking for God, Hey, God, help me meet me here in this twenty four hour show me what I can't, what I don't know, show me what I can't do you know, and show me how to do it, you know, through your strength, not my own. So the big distinction of like telling yourself what you think you already know versus asking, it's.

So powerful, ya, your words are so powerful.

So powerful, ya, your words are so powerful.

One thousand percent.

One thousand percent.

And then the intention that you in that concept of just choosing small, minuscule moments of joy, because we find whatever we're looking for, if we if we are looking for more misery or more you know, finding ways to argue with reality or wish it hadn't happen, or go back in the past, or try to retrace steps or all the.

And then the intention that you in that concept of just choosing small, minuscule moments of joy, because we find whatever we're looking for, if we if we are looking for more misery or more you know, finding ways to argue with reality or wish it hadn't happen, or go back in the past, or try to retrace steps or all the.

Things that we can't change.

Things that we can't change.

It keeps us present and it shows us that even in the midst of chaos or tragedy, we can find small little things to focus our attention on.

It keeps us present and it shows us that even in the midst of chaos or tragedy, we can find small little things to focus our attention on.

And it really is just a choice. And sometimes it doesn't feel like a choice when you're so bogged.

And it really is just a choice. And sometimes it doesn't feel like a choice when you're so bogged.

Down with that heavy, heavy grief, right, but it really is. And I think you said it sounds so simple, but you know, the elegance is in its simplicity, as da Vinci said, and I probably just butchered that quote, but it really is these.

Down with that heavy, heavy grief, right, but it really is. And I think you said it sounds so simple, but you know, the elegance is in its simplicity, as da Vinci said, and I probably just butchered that quote, but it really is these.

Small things that you need to grasp onto.

Small things that you need to grasp onto.

Before we wrap up, you and I met about three three and a half years ago. When I met you, you had already found the purpose in a way, you know, through Nashville and through your your you know, your.

Before we wrap up, you and I met about three three and a half years ago. When I met you, you had already found the purpose in a way, you know, through Nashville and through your your you know, your.

Podcasting, and you're you're authoring a book.

Podcasting, and you're you're authoring a book.

And so we're gonna dive into what has transpired in the past few years. But like, when did you know that you were on And I know grief never ends.

And so we're gonna dive into what has transpired in the past few years. But like, when did you know that you were on And I know grief never ends.

It comes in waves.

It comes in waves.

You know, even you can still feel joy in the grief as well, you know, but and celebrate his life. But when did you feel the wavelift? When did you feel a shift and know that you were back? And what do you think was like the magic recipe for you? Like, what was your spiritual recipe? What were some things that you think really moved the needle for you to feel like, Okay, I'm back and I'm different. I'm forever changed, yeah, you know, but like I feel like I'm coming back to myself again.

You know, even you can still feel joy in the grief as well, you know, but and celebrate his life. But when did you feel the wavelift? When did you feel a shift and know that you were back? And what do you think was like the magic recipe for you? Like, what was your spiritual recipe? What were some things that you think really moved the needle for you to feel like, Okay, I'm back and I'm different. I'm forever changed, yeah, you know, but like I feel like I'm coming back to myself again.

When was that shift and what did that feel like for you?

When was that shift and what did that feel like for you?

I think that that shift happened.

I think that that shift happened.

I can't like pinpoint exactly what you know, how many years in or whatever it was, but there was a very specific moment you mentioned Job earlier, which is funny because and I remember so clearly this moment reading the beginning of.

I can't like pinpoint exactly what you know, how many years in or whatever it was, but there was a very specific moment you mentioned Job earlier, which is funny because and I remember so clearly this moment reading the beginning of.

That book of Job.

That book of Job.

And if people don't know that story, it's in the Old Testament, and it's this guy named Job and he is called like the most faithful man on earth, like he's he's crushing it with God, like perfect church attendants everything, and the story opens and this is what I was reading in this moment. We were going through it in this Girl's Bible Say group that I've had forever. We were reading it so I was preparing for our meeting, and it opens with a conversation literally between God and Satan, and Satan's coming to God and saying like, your dude, job is only like super faithful because he's had an easy life, like nothing has obviously I'm paraphrasing this, nothing bad has happened, Like, of course he loves you, like you've just give him blessing.

And if people don't know that story, it's in the Old Testament, and it's this guy named Job and he is called like the most faithful man on earth, like he's he's crushing it with God, like perfect church attendants everything, and the story opens and this is what I was reading in this moment. We were going through it in this Girl's Bible Say group that I've had forever. We were reading it so I was preparing for our meeting, and it opens with a conversation literally between God and Satan, and Satan's coming to God and saying like, your dude, job is only like super faithful because he's had an easy life, like nothing has obviously I'm paraphrasing this, nothing bad has happened, Like, of course he loves you, like you've just give him blessing.

I'm blessing.

I'm blessing.

He's rich, huge farm and family and you know, like he's got a cush life.

He's rich, huge farm and family and you know, like he's got a cush life.

Of course he loves you.

Of course he loves you.

And God says to Satan like, okay, you can test him, you can do anything you want to him except kill him. He will be faithful to me. And that's what happens in the story. He takes everything. Every one of his ten kids dies, his wife dies, he gets sick, and all these ailments and diseases, and he loses his whole all his money and his whole farm and business.

And God says to Satan like, okay, you can test him, you can do anything you want to him except kill him. He will be faithful to me. And that's what happens in the story. He takes everything. Every one of his ten kids dies, his wife dies, he gets sick, and all these ailments and diseases, and he loses his whole all his money and his whole farm and business.

And the whole story is.

And the whole story is.

Him grappling with that and grieving and being angry and saying prayers like I said, but also never not trusting God to restore it. And so when I was reading this opening, I mean that was like that was like I was red hot, angry, crying, yelling, because when I read.

Him grappling with that and grieving and being angry and saying prayers like I said, but also never not trusting God to restore it. And so when I was reading this opening, I mean that was like that was like I was red hot, angry, crying, yelling, because when I read.

That, I was like, is this what happened to me? Like was this me?

That, I was like, is this what happened to me? Like was this me?

Did Satan come to you and say, yeah, of course she loves you, She's had a cush life, Like watch this? And I was so mad and reeling and crying and going this whole tirade at God in my kitchen. And when I finally just sort of like ran out of steam. It was and this will sound weird people who don't haven't had this experience, but it was I it was like he spoke to me, not audibly, but it's like when thoughts come up in your head and you know that that's not your thoughts. And it was so clear, and the message was Maddie, whose are you? And I was like what it was like, whose are you?

Did Satan come to you and say, yeah, of course she loves you, She's had a cush life, Like watch this? And I was so mad and reeling and crying and going this whole tirade at God in my kitchen. And when I finally just sort of like ran out of steam. It was and this will sound weird people who don't haven't had this experience, but it was I it was like he spoke to me, not audibly, but it's like when thoughts come up in your head and you know that that's not your thoughts. And it was so clear, and the message was Maddie, whose are you? And I was like what it was like, whose are you?

Your mind?

Your mind?

Like you are my child, you are my daughter, Like I made you, I chose you, I died for you, I fight for you. I'm gonna redeem you. I'm gonna make your life what it's supposed to be and what you need to remember is that you are mine. That is your only identity. It is the only thing that brings you value. It is the only thing in your life that cannot be taken away. And for me, I don't. That was such a profound moment because I think it showed me like, obviously I was grieving been his actual person, right, I was grieving our future, I was grieving our marriage. I was greeted all this stuff. But I think what at the core, what I was hurting me so much and what was keeping me so lost, was that I lost the things that I thought.

Like you are my child, you are my daughter, Like I made you, I chose you, I died for you, I fight for you. I'm gonna redeem you. I'm gonna make your life what it's supposed to be and what you need to remember is that you are mine. That is your only identity. It is the only thing that brings you value. It is the only thing in your life that cannot be taken away. And for me, I don't. That was such a profound moment because I think it showed me like, obviously I was grieving been his actual person, right, I was grieving our future, I was grieving our marriage. I was greeted all this stuff. But I think what at the core, what I was hurting me so much and what was keeping me so lost, was that I lost the things that I thought.

Made me who I was. Yes.

Made me who I was. Yes.

Wow, And for God to be there in that story and say like, look, I get you feel like job, like you've lost all these things that define you. But I'm the only person who can define you. I'm the only person who can heal you. All you have to remember for the rest of your life, no matter what you gain or what you lose, is that your mind, like I've got you. And that really changed everything for me because in that moment, like I know I'm always secure, like he's always gonna I'm always gonna come out on the other side, and I may not like it, and it may take longer than I want. And I may have scars that I hate, but I'm his and he's got me and and so I don't know why that was it for me, but it came down to like everything that we grieve, everything that we lose, everything that really hurts us is in some part because we feel like it's the core of our identity and it's not.

Wow, And for God to be there in that story and say like, look, I get you feel like job, like you've lost all these things that define you. But I'm the only person who can define you. I'm the only person who can heal you. All you have to remember for the rest of your life, no matter what you gain or what you lose, is that your mind, like I've got you. And that really changed everything for me because in that moment, like I know I'm always secure, like he's always gonna I'm always gonna come out on the other side, and I may not like it, and it may take longer than I want. And I may have scars that I hate, but I'm his and he's got me and and so I don't know why that was it for me, but it came down to like everything that we grieve, everything that we lose, everything that really hurts us is in some part because we feel like it's the core of our identity and it's not.

Yeah, So it's such a beautiful lesson for all of us because all of us are identified by something something worldly, whether it's you know, gene size, bank balance, relationship status. In your case, I mean, you were a missus of Ben, you know. And just to brag on you for just a minute, because you know, part of it is like when anybody meets you, they wouldn't know your upbringing, like you grew up in a famous family, you know.

Yeah, So it's such a beautiful lesson for all of us because all of us are identified by something something worldly, whether it's you know, gene size, bank balance, relationship status. In your case, I mean, you were a missus of Ben, you know. And just to brag on you for just a minute, because you know, part of it is like when anybody meets you, they wouldn't know your upbringing, like you grew up in a famous family, you know.

And one of the things I'm most proud of you about and what I love.

And one of the things I'm most proud of you about and what I love.

About you is you've always been your own person, you know, before Ben and in the midst of and now after. And it is one of those things like it would be easy for anybody to be like, oh, she's had a cushy life or she's had an easy upbringing, and it's like no, first of all, everything that you're saying is was a choice, Like you chose to become who you've become, you know, and in the midst of tragedy, you've chosen to lean in and create purpose and serve others. You know, when a lot of times grief it can be an all consuming thing where you don't want to think about anybody else. And one of the first things you did is you started serving widows and orphans. Like what I mean, it's just a testimony to who you are, right But despite that, like in the midst of all the things that you could have identified with, you have created your own identity. And this was just the next layer of you becoming God's beautiful daughter and stripping of any other you know, roles or labels or identity that you could have maybe misconstrued as as the thing that gave you value and worth, and you put that and here's the thing you heard that call. Do you know how many people maybe hear air quotes, hear these things and they just ignore it and they pursue other worldly idols that they're chasing after, whether it's money, skinny relationship, likes on Facebook, whatever it is. And these are choices that you've made and so it's just such a beautiful testimony. And again, the people that don't know you don't like the heart of who you are. The essence of who you are and who you've become in the midst of this tragedy is just truly it's remarkable and profound and admirable.

About you is you've always been your own person, you know, before Ben and in the midst of and now after. And it is one of those things like it would be easy for anybody to be like, oh, she's had a cushy life or she's had an easy upbringing, and it's like no, first of all, everything that you're saying is was a choice, Like you chose to become who you've become, you know, and in the midst of tragedy, you've chosen to lean in and create purpose and serve others. You know, when a lot of times grief it can be an all consuming thing where you don't want to think about anybody else. And one of the first things you did is you started serving widows and orphans. Like what I mean, it's just a testimony to who you are, right But despite that, like in the midst of all the things that you could have identified with, you have created your own identity. And this was just the next layer of you becoming God's beautiful daughter and stripping of any other you know, roles or labels or identity that you could have maybe misconstrued as as the thing that gave you value and worth, and you put that and here's the thing you heard that call. Do you know how many people maybe hear air quotes, hear these things and they just ignore it and they pursue other worldly idols that they're chasing after, whether it's money, skinny relationship, likes on Facebook, whatever it is. And these are choices that you've made and so it's just such a beautiful testimony. And again, the people that don't know you don't like the heart of who you are. The essence of who you are and who you've become in the midst of this tragedy is just truly it's remarkable and profound and admirable.

And I just I wanted to brag on you for.

And I just I wanted to brag on you for.

Me, Yeah, well you're kind and to more probably accurately and properly answer your original question. That was the moment that the whole mind shift kind of changed for me. It was like it reset the foundation. And I think you asked, when did you feel like you had really moved into a place of healing or stability.

Me, Yeah, well you're kind and to more probably accurately and properly answer your original question. That was the moment that the whole mind shift kind of changed for me. It was like it reset the foundation. And I think you asked, when did you feel like you had really moved into a place of healing or stability.

Those weren't your words, but that's what it felt like. It felt like. Once I had that realization, I was.

Those weren't your words, but that's what it felt like. It felt like. Once I had that realization, I was.