After more than a year of war, tear and pain in Israel, the need for security essentials and support for first responders is still critical. Even in times of ceasefire. Israel must be prepared for the next attack, wherever it may come from. As Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides. That is where the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews and you come in. They are the ones that help give the support that is needed and the people of Israel need now more than ever before, life saving security essentials, and your gift today will help save lives by providing bomb shelters, armored security vehicles and ambulances, firefighting equipment, flat jackets and bulletproof vests, and so much more. Your generous donation today will help ensure the people of Israel are safe and secure in the days to come. So give a gift to bless Israel and her people by visiting support IFCJ dot org. That's one word support IFCJ dot org or call eight to eight four eight eight IFCJ that's eight eight eight four eight eight IFCJ eight and eight four eight eight four three two five or support IFCJ dot org. Welcome and his Verdict with Center, Ted Cruz Ben Ferguson. With You and Today is part two of our exclusive conversation with Elon Musk, the entrepreneur and innovator who is transforming industries and is dismantling government waste, fraud and abuse With Doge must Relentless pursuit of technology and space exploration continues to capture the world's imagination. In this episode, we unravel the thoughts and aspirations of a man who defies conventional boundaries, pushing humanity towards new horizons. So join us in the White House as we continue to explore the riveting journey of Elon Musk, a modern day pioneer whose revolutionary ideas are set to redefine tomorrow.

After more than a year of war, tear and pain in Israel, the need for security essentials and support for first responders is still critical. Even in times of ceasefire. Israel must be prepared for the next attack, wherever it may come from. As Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides. That is where the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews and you come in. They are the ones that help give the support that is needed and the people of Israel need now more than ever before, life saving security essentials, and your gift today will help save lives by providing bomb shelters, armored security vehicles and ambulances, firefighting equipment, flat jackets and bulletproof vests, and so much more. Your generous donation today will help ensure the people of Israel are safe and secure in the days to come. So give a gift to bless Israel and her people by visiting support IFCJ dot org. That's one word support IFCJ dot org or call eight to eight four eight eight IFCJ that's eight eight eight four eight eight IFCJ eight and eight four eight eight four three two five or support IFCJ dot org. Welcome and his Verdict with Center, Ted Cruz Ben Ferguson. With You and Today is part two of our exclusive conversation with Elon Musk, the entrepreneur and innovator who is transforming industries and is dismantling government waste, fraud and abuse With Doge must Relentless pursuit of technology and space exploration continues to capture the world's imagination. In this episode, we unravel the thoughts and aspirations of a man who defies conventional boundaries, pushing humanity towards new horizons. So join us in the White House as we continue to explore the riveting journey of Elon Musk, a modern day pioneer whose revolutionary ideas are set to redefine tomorrow.

Let me start with a question. You know a lot about what year does man first set foot on Mars.

Let me start with a question. You know a lot about what year does man first set foot on Mars.

I think the soonest would be twenty nine, twenty nine, yes, and I don't think it's more than two to four years beyond that.

I think the soonest would be twenty nine, twenty nine, yes, and I don't think it's more than two to four years beyond that.

And that's not an unman's that's a human being putting his foot on the surface.

And that's not an unman's that's a human being putting his foot on the surface.

Yes, best case would be twenty nine.

Yes, best case would be twenty nine.

And what do you put the odds of finding either alien life or evidence of alien life.

And what do you put the odds of finding either alien life or evidence of alien life.

I don't think we're going to find aliens, okay.

I don't think we're going to find aliens, okay.

But do we find ruins? Do we find remnants?

But do we find ruins? Do we find remnants?

We may we may find the ruins of a long dead alien civilization, that's possible. And we may find subterranean microbial life, that's possible.

We may we may find the ruins of a long dead alien civilization, that's possible. And we may find subterranean microbial life, that's possible.

All right. If Man lands on Mars in twenty nine, how soon after that do you land on Mars?

All right. If Man lands on Mars in twenty nine, how soon after that do you land on Mars?

It remains to be seen. I'm not sure.

It remains to be seen. I'm not sure.

The important thing is that are we build a self sustaining city on Mars as quickly as possible. The key threshold is when that city can continue to grow, continue to prosper even when the supply ships from Earth stop coming. At that point, even if something would happen on Earth, it might might It might not be World War three, but it might be that a bad virus.

The important thing is that are we build a self sustaining city on Mars as quickly as possible. The key threshold is when that city can continue to grow, continue to prosper even when the supply ships from Earth stop coming. At that point, even if something would happen on Earth, it might might It might not be World War three, but it might be that a bad virus.

Yeah, it might not be anything. For those things.

Yeah, it might not be anything. For those things.

It's like like like say, civilization, you could die with a bang or a whimper. It maybe that civilization dies with a whimper rather than a bang or and simply loses the ability to send ships to Mars. But so you absoenly need Mars to become self sustaining and be able to grow by itself before the resupply ships from Earth stopped coming. That That is the critical a civilizational threshold beyond which the probable life span of civilization is much greater.

It's like like like say, civilization, you could die with a bang or a whimper. It maybe that civilization dies with a whimper rather than a bang or and simply loses the ability to send ships to Mars. But so you absoenly need Mars to become self sustaining and be able to grow by itself before the resupply ships from Earth stopped coming. That That is the critical a civilizational threshold beyond which the probable life span of civilization is much greater.

And how close are we technologically to be able to do that, to have a self sustaining settlement on the surface of Mars.

And how close are we technologically to be able to do that, to have a self sustaining settlement on the surface of Mars.

I think it can be done in twenty years, But.

I think it can be done in twenty years, But.

It would take twenty years, so we're not in twenty nine. We're not there. What are we missing? What are the big technologies?

It would take twenty years, so we're not in twenty nine. We're not there. What are we missing? What are the big technologies?

We don't have a few people running around the surface in a hostile environment is not going to make it self sustaining. So you're going to need on the order of a million people, maybe a million tons of cargo.

We don't have a few people running around the surface in a hostile environment is not going to make it self sustaining. So you're going to need on the order of a million people, maybe a million tons of cargo.

So but you think we could have a million people on Mars in twenty years? Yes, And what's the technology we're missing right now? When you think about a million people on Mars, do we have the ability to get water, to get food, to keep them safe? I mean, what do we need to make that happen?

So but you think we could have a million people on Mars in twenty years? Yes, And what's the technology we're missing right now? When you think about a million people on Mars, do we have the ability to get water, to get food, to keep them safe? I mean, what do we need to make that happen?

Well, you need to recreate the entire base of industry of Earth. So you know, we're here at the top of a massive permit of industry that starts with mining a bas array of materials, those materials going through hundreds of steps of refinements. We grow food, obviously, we grow trees, we make things out of the trees. There's you know, you've got to You've got to build all that on Mars, and Mars is a hostile environment. It's you know, it sometimes gets above zero on a warm summer day near the equator on Mars.

Well, you need to recreate the entire base of industry of Earth. So you know, we're here at the top of a massive permit of industry that starts with mining a bas array of materials, those materials going through hundreds of steps of refinements. We grow food, obviously, we grow trees, we make things out of the trees. There's you know, you've got to You've got to build all that on Mars, and Mars is a hostile environment. It's you know, it sometimes gets above zero on a warm summer day near the equator on Mars.

Meanly it's quite cold.

Meanly it's quite cold.

How do you prep for that?

How do you prep for that?

Well, in the beginning, on Mars.

Well, in the beginning, on Mars.

You have to have a life support habitation module right like you need You can't just live outdoors.

You have to have a life support habitation module right like you need You can't just live outdoors.

You can't breathe the air like.

You can't breathe the air like.

A dome you think is likely?

A dome you think is likely?

Yeah, glass domes type of thing.

Yeah, glass domes type of thing.

Have you identified a location on Mars that is likely to be ideal for a habitat?

Have you identified a location on Mars that is likely to be ideal for a habitat?

What might be Arcadia planet? Here is one of the one of the good options. That's one of my daughters is named Arcadia after.

What might be Arcadia planet? Here is one of the one of the good options. That's one of my daughters is named Arcadia after.

That, and what makes that attractive.

That, and what makes that attractive.

My other son's little name is uh Ari's Mars.

My other son's little name is uh Ari's Mars.

You've been thinking about this for a long time. If you're name and your kids around it.

You've been thinking about this for a long time. If you're name and your kids around it.

My eldest kid is little name is essentially Mars.

My eldest kid is little name is essentially Mars.

When did you get the dream?

When did you get the dream?

Like, I mean, it's twenty two to twenty one. Soon this is decades old.

Like, I mean, it's twenty two to twenty one. Soon this is decades old.

Yeah, dream So like when you were ten, did you look up and say I'm going to Mars?

Yeah, dream So like when you were ten, did you look up and say I'm going to Mars?

No? No.

No? No.

I read a lot of science fiction books and program computers. But the first, finally off, the first video game that I sold was a space video game called Blastar. Maybe I spoiled this way.

I read a lot of science fiction books and program computers. But the first, finally off, the first video game that I sold was a space video game called Blastar. Maybe I spoiled this way.

How do you do? How do you become Elon Musk? Look, you're obviously smart as hell, but but there are lots there are a lot of smart people that don't do swat and you've managed everything you've touched has been an extraordinary success. Uh yeah, yeah, Look, I mean that's just objectively right. So what has led to that? Because there are other smart people that that's not true, and they gaze at their navel and they don't do anything. So what what do you do differently that makes you so effective?

How do you do? How do you become Elon Musk? Look, you're obviously smart as hell, but but there are lots there are a lot of smart people that don't do swat and you've managed everything you've touched has been an extraordinary success. Uh yeah, yeah, Look, I mean that's just objectively right. So what has led to that? Because there are other smart people that that's not true, and they gaze at their navel and they don't do anything. So what what do you do differently that makes you so effective?

Well? I suppose I have a philosophy of curiosity.

Well? I suppose I have a philosophy of curiosity.

I want to find out the nature of the universe, understand the universe, and in order to do that, we have to travel to other planets, see other star systems, maybe other galaxies, find perhaps other alien civilizations, or at least the remnants of alien civilizations, gain a better understanding of worse it's universe going ready to come from and what questions do we not yet know to ask about the answer that is the universe.

I want to find out the nature of the universe, understand the universe, and in order to do that, we have to travel to other planets, see other star systems, maybe other galaxies, find perhaps other alien civilizations, or at least the remnants of alien civilizations, gain a better understanding of worse it's universe going ready to come from and what questions do we not yet know to ask about the answer that is the universe.

So let's go back twenty five years, late nineties. You're at PayPal. How do you turn PayPal into the success it was, which which then helped launch you to the next one? In the next one.

So let's go back twenty five years, late nineties. You're at PayPal. How do you turn PayPal into the success it was, which which then helped launch you to the next one? In the next one.

Yeah, So I studied physics and economics and college she's a good nation for understanding how the economy works and how reality works. And then I was going to do a PhD at Stanford in advanced ultra capacitors actually as a potential means of energy storage for electric transport. Put that on hold to start an internet company. Essentially came to the conclusion that the Internet was one of those rare things and I could either watch it happen while a grad student or participated. And I figured, I've always go back to grad school. You know, grad school is going to be kind of the same. But I couldn't rather thought of just watching the Internet happen, So I wanted to be a part of building it. So I created an Internet Internet company. We did the first maps, directions, yellow pages, white pages on the Internet. I actually wrote the first version of Suffered just by myself and ninety five and we ended up selling that to Compact Texas company.

Yeah, So I studied physics and economics and college she's a good nation for understanding how the economy works and how reality works. And then I was going to do a PhD at Stanford in advanced ultra capacitors actually as a potential means of energy storage for electric transport. Put that on hold to start an internet company. Essentially came to the conclusion that the Internet was one of those rare things and I could either watch it happen while a grad student or participated. And I figured, I've always go back to grad school. You know, grad school is going to be kind of the same. But I couldn't rather thought of just watching the Internet happen, So I wanted to be a part of building it. So I created an Internet Internet company. We did the first maps, directions, yellow pages, white pages on the Internet. I actually wrote the first version of Suffered just by myself and ninety five and we ended up selling that to Compact Texas company.

I guess yea.

I guess yea.

For about three hundred million dollars in cash about four years after I graduated.

For about three hundred million dollars in cash about four years after I graduated.

Wow.

Wow.

So I should say just to preface that I graduated with about one hundred thousand dollars a student debt. So it wasn't yeah, you and me both yeah, yeah, right, I know.

So I should say just to preface that I graduated with about one hundred thousand dollars a student debt. So it wasn't yeah, you and me both yeah, yeah, right, I know.

And when I first arrived in North America, I arrived with twenty five hundred dollars, a bag of books and a bag of clothes.

And when I first arrived in North America, I arrived with twenty five hundred dollars, a bag of books and a bag of clothes.

All right, So you sell the company for three hundred million, How much does that change your life?

All right, So you sell the company for three hundred million, How much does that change your life?

Well?

Well?

I got twenty one million dollars black jack, and but I wanted to do more on the internet. So started a company called x dot com, which morch were a company called Confinity, which is Peter Thiel and Max Leptun yep, and we're combined. Company was actually at first little called x dot com, but we later later changed the name of the company to PayPal. Because of all the name changes, it's kind of confusing. But the company that people know is know as PayPal today. Was actually I felt those in corporation documents for that company interesting.

I got twenty one million dollars black jack, and but I wanted to do more on the internet. So started a company called x dot com, which morch were a company called Confinity, which is Peter Thiel and Max Leptun yep, and we're combined. Company was actually at first little called x dot com, but we later later changed the name of the company to PayPal. Because of all the name changes, it's kind of confusing. But the company that people know is know as PayPal today. Was actually I felt those in corporation documents for that company interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and as you know, Peter Tiel and I were buddies back in the mid nineties before he went and did any of this, but you know, I became friends with him when he was a corporate lawyer in New York and just sort of a young libertarian with with a lot of dreams. So it's been a heck of a journey.

Well, and as you know, Peter Tiel and I were buddies back in the mid nineties before he went and did any of this, but you know, I became friends with him when he was a corporate lawyer in New York and just sort of a young libertarian with with a lot of dreams. So it's been a heck of a journey.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, And now Peter was involved in a coup. You know, we had a little sort of knifing in the Senate situation where you know that they did cooon met at PayPal.

Yeah, And now Peter was involved in a coup. You know, we had a little sort of knifing in the Senate situation where you know that they did cooon met at PayPal.

I kind of now, did you all make peace after that? Yeah?

I kind of now, did you all make peace after that? Yeah?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean I was doing a lot of sort of risky moves that I think ultimately would have been successful. But I then went on a two week trip which was a dual money raising trip and honeymoon, and said not done my honeymoon earlier in the year. So it's raising money while doing doing Hollywood honeymoon. But I was kind of awake.

I mean I was doing a lot of sort of risky moves that I think ultimately would have been successful. But I then went on a two week trip which was a dual money raising trip and honeymoon, and said not done my honeymoon earlier in the year. So it's raising money while doing doing Hollywood honeymoon. But I was kind of awake.

Did that go over by the way it worked?

Did that go over by the way it worked?

It worked?

It worked?

There, you go, kind of worked. I raised money, yeah, yeah, and we had honeymoon there you go.

There, you go, kind of worked. I raised money, yeah, yeah, and we had honeymoon there you go.

So yeah, but you don't want to be away from the battle when things are scary. So I was not there to assuage the concerns of the troops. And anyway, we're passed things up. And I have been friends nonetheless, and yeah, these days all stay at his house and stuff.

So yeah, but you don't want to be away from the battle when things are scary. So I was not there to assuage the concerns of the troops. And anyway, we're passed things up. And I have been friends nonetheless, and yeah, these days all stay at his house and stuff.

So I was super friends. And he's also invested in most of my companies.

So I was super friends. And he's also invested in most of my companies.

All right, So two thousand and two you start SpaceX, Like, how do you start a rocket company? Like what's the first day where you're like, I want to make rockets and I want to go to Mars? Like what do you do on day one?

All right, So two thousand and two you start SpaceX, Like, how do you start a rocket company? Like what's the first day where you're like, I want to make rockets and I want to go to Mars? Like what do you do on day one?

So I think you have to start with a some sort of philosophical premise in order to have in order for the in order to be in order to be highly motivated, you have to have some.

So I think you have to start with a some sort of philosophical premise in order to have in order for the in order to be in order to be highly motivated, you have to have some.

Philosophical foundation. In my case, it was.

Philosophical foundation. In my case, it was.

That that we want to expand the scale, the scope and scale of consciousness.

That that we want to expand the scale, the scope and scale of consciousness.

To better understand the nature of the universe.

To better understand the nature of the universe.

And in order to expand scale, expand consciousness, we need to go beyond one planet. If for one planet there's there's too much risk, you know, hopefully Earth civilization prosperous very far into the future.

And in order to expand scale, expand consciousness, we need to go beyond one planet. If for one planet there's there's too much risk, you know, hopefully Earth civilization prosperous very far into the future.

But it may not.

But it may not.

There's always some risk that we are we self annihilate through nuclear war, or that there's a big meter that takes us out like the dinosaurs. Ye, there's always some risk if all your eggs are in one bast good. So it's going to be better if we're a multiplanet species. And then once we're a multiplanet species, that the next step would be to be a multi stellar and have a civilization among on many different star systems. So in two thousand and one, I didn't think that I could. I didn't think I could sell a rocket company. So I thought I'd take some of the money from PayPal. In that case, I think was about one hundred and eighty million dollars after tax, something like that, And I thought, you know, I don't need a hundred and eighty million dollars, so I'll spend a bunch of it on a philanthropic Mars mission to get the public excited about going back to Mars. We're going to Mars, I should say, yeah, Mars was always going to be the destination after the Moon.

There's always some risk that we are we self annihilate through nuclear war, or that there's a big meter that takes us out like the dinosaurs. Ye, there's always some risk if all your eggs are in one bast good. So it's going to be better if we're a multiplanet species. And then once we're a multiplanet species, that the next step would be to be a multi stellar and have a civilization among on many different star systems. So in two thousand and one, I didn't think that I could. I didn't think I could sell a rocket company. So I thought I'd take some of the money from PayPal. In that case, I think was about one hundred and eighty million dollars after tax, something like that, And I thought, you know, I don't need a hundred and eighty million dollars, so I'll spend a bunch of it on a philanthropic Mars mission to get the public excited about going back to Mars. We're going to Mars, I should say, yeah, Mars was always going to be the destination after the Moon.

Right.

Right.

In fact, if you told people in nineteen sixty nine that it would be twenty twenty five and we've not even gone back to the Moon, let alone it's targetable leave, let alone Mars. They'd be like what happened in the civilization collapse? Top Yeah, like they would be incomprehensible that we've not been to Mars by now, if you told people this after landing on the Moon in sixty nine.

In fact, if you told people in nineteen sixty nine that it would be twenty twenty five and we've not even gone back to the Moon, let alone it's targetable leave, let alone Mars. They'd be like what happened in the civilization collapse? Top Yeah, like they would be incomprehensible that we've not been to Mars by now, if you told people this after landing on the Moon in sixty nine.

Why do you think in fifty years America never went back to the moon.

Why do you think in fifty years America never went back to the moon.

Well, we destroyed the Saturn five rocket that was that could take people to the Moon, and had the Space Shuttle, which could only go to lowth orbit, and then there really hasn't been anything to replace any No, no vehicle has been made since then that can go to the Moon or to Mars until the SpaceX Starship rocket. Yeah, so you can't go to Mars if you don't have the ride.

Well, we destroyed the Saturn five rocket that was that could take people to the Moon, and had the Space Shuttle, which could only go to lowth orbit, and then there really hasn't been anything to replace any No, no vehicle has been made since then that can go to the Moon or to Mars until the SpaceX Starship rocket. Yeah, so you can't go to Mars if you don't have the ride.

So I remember you and I first met in twenty thirteen when when I was a brand new baby senator. Yeah, and I was still down in the basement office. They stick freshman senators in the basement office a kind of like hazy. Yeah, yeah, say it sounds like there are one hundred seared offices. But for six months you stay in the base. You're in your place it's like worrying. Mean, you know where you're supposed to you now, thirteen years into it. I think there's a lot of wisdom to doing that. But you were down in the basement office and I remember you were coming and sitting down with SpaceX and at the time, the Air Force was not letting you all bid to launch satellites, and so you were coming and saying, look, we got a company. I think we can do a really good job of this, and yet we're locked out of this. It's a little amazing to think the journey SpaceX is gone from then to now.

So I remember you and I first met in twenty thirteen when when I was a brand new baby senator. Yeah, and I was still down in the basement office. They stick freshman senators in the basement office a kind of like hazy. Yeah, yeah, say it sounds like there are one hundred seared offices. But for six months you stay in the base. You're in your place it's like worrying. Mean, you know where you're supposed to you now, thirteen years into it. I think there's a lot of wisdom to doing that. But you were down in the basement office and I remember you were coming and sitting down with SpaceX and at the time, the Air Force was not letting you all bid to launch satellites, and so you were coming and saying, look, we got a company. I think we can do a really good job of this, and yet we're locked out of this. It's a little amazing to think the journey SpaceX is gone from then to now.

Yes, it's hard to believe that this is all real because originally, consistently with my belief that we need to become a mother planet species, I thought the only way to do that would be through NASA sou and I think I thought, well, if I just get the public excited about Mars, then they'll do admission to Mars. And so initially my thought was to have to send a small greenhouse with seeds and dehydrated nutrient gel. Then land the greenhouse, hydrate the seeds, and you see.

Yes, it's hard to believe that this is all real because originally, consistently with my belief that we need to become a mother planet species, I thought the only way to do that would be through NASA sou and I think I thought, well, if I just get the public excited about Mars, then they'll do admission to Mars. And so initially my thought was to have to send a small greenhouse with seeds and dehydrated nutrient gel. Then land the greenhouse, hydrate the seeds, and you see.

The sort of money shot.

The sort of money shot.

The money shot would be green plants on a red background.

The money shot would be green plants on a red background.

Ye.

Ye.

I also recently know that money shot has a different meaning in some other arenas.

I also recently know that money shot has a different meaning in some other arenas.

But yeah, story.

But yeah, story.

But what I'm trying to say is the captivating shot would be the green plants on a red background, and then hopefully that would if we did something like that, that would get the public excited about Mars, that would increase nasta's budget, and then we could send people to Mars.

But what I'm trying to say is the captivating shot would be the green plants on a red background, and then hopefully that would if we did something like that, that would get the public excited about Mars, that would increase nasta's budget, and then we could send people to Mars.

Dream was nicey to do this? Yes, not you. No. The original original plan was.

Dream was nicey to do this? Yes, not you. No. The original original plan was.

Literally to take a bunch of the money from PayPal and I guess, by some people's definition, waste it with no probit on a nonprofit thing. I wanted to spend a whole bunch of my money for free to get NASA's budget to be bigger so we could.

Literally to take a bunch of the money from PayPal and I guess, by some people's definition, waste it with no probit on a nonprofit thing. I wanted to spend a whole bunch of my money for free to get NASA's budget to be bigger so we could.

Go to friggin Mars. Right, Wow, that's what I wanted. So that was the holy Grail, That's what I wanted.

Go to friggin Mars. Right, Wow, that's what I wanted. So that was the holy Grail, That's what I wanted.

I was like, so, when did you Mars?

I was like, so, when did you Mars?

That's what I wanted to know, Well.

That's what I wanted to know, Well.

When when did it strike you? Okay, you're going to have to do this.

When when did it strike you? Okay, you're going to have to do this.

If you will, I'll tell you.

If you will, I'll tell you.

It gets crazier, all right, It gets crazier so so that I couldn't afford any of the US rockets because as you know, the US rockets are way too expensive for bying lucky rock Lucky rockets are crazy money I didn't have.

It gets crazier, all right, It gets crazier so so that I couldn't afford any of the US rockets because as you know, the US rockets are way too expensive for bying lucky rock Lucky rockets are crazy money I didn't have.

I didn't even even with one hundred eighty millions. Way I could have afforded were they back then?

I didn't even even with one hundred eighty millions. Way I could have afforded were they back then?

Well, the that with the additional stage to get tomorrows, it would have been about like eighty million. So technically I could have afforded one of them, but I wanted to do too in case one of them didn't work.

Well, the that with the additional stage to get tomorrows, it would have been about like eighty million. So technically I could have afforded one of them, but I wanted to do too in case one of them didn't work.

Yeah. So and then I didn't have enough money for that.

Yeah. So and then I didn't have enough money for that.

Yeah, And I was sort of prepared to, you know, I don't know, waste half the money. And I figured if I had ninety million left, that'd be fine, you know, but ideally on all of it.

Yeah, And I was sort of prepared to, you know, I don't know, waste half the money. And I figured if I had ninety million left, that'd be fine, you know, but ideally on all of it.

So I went to Russia twice to try to buy ICBMs.

So I went to Russia twice to try to buy ICBMs.

How'd that go?

How'd that go?

And who do you call?

And who do you call?

The Russian rocket forces?

The Russian rocket forces?

They sell ICBMs? Does that work?

They sell ICBMs? Does that work?

Yeah?

Yeah?

You got to tell us a story that I want to know who you can buy anything in Russia?

You got to tell us a story that I want to know who you can buy anything in Russia?

Yeah, I like, please walk you down that.

Yeah, I like, please walk you down that.

I want to know how you made that phone call and when you get there, how did that work?

I want to know how you made that phone call and when you get there, how did that work?

And what do you tell your friends? Yeah, listen, I'm going to Russian device in ICBMs. I might not return, you know, in this situation.

And what do you tell your friends? Yeah, listen, I'm going to Russian device in ICBMs. I might not return, you know, in this situation.

Literally, Yeah, So I guess slightly less insane when you when you understand that the Russians had to demolish a bunch of their ICBMs because of uh, you know, sult talks like the peace because basically an agreement between the United States and Russia to reduce the total number of ICBMs, Russia was actually obligated to scrap a bunch of their ICBMs.

Literally, Yeah, So I guess slightly less insane when you when you understand that the Russians had to demolish a bunch of their ICBMs because of uh, you know, sult talks like the peace because basically an agreement between the United States and Russia to reduce the total number of ICBMs, Russia was actually obligated to scrap a bunch of their ICBMs.

So you've took it the very biggest ICBMs.

So you've took it the very biggest ICBMs.

You could converte those into a rocket at additional stage and send something to Mars.

You could converte those into a rocket at additional stage and send something to Mars.

So those are big enough with one more stage to get to Mars.

So those are big enough with one more stage to get to Mars.

To send a small payload to Mars. Yeah, so the SS eighteen.

To send a small payload to Mars. Yeah, so the SS eighteen.

So you try to buy CBMs, do you succeed or no? Or do you figure out you got to build your own instead.

So you try to buy CBMs, do you succeed or no? Or do you figure out you got to build your own instead.

They kept raising the price on me, so because I figured like, look, they're going to throw these things in scrappy on anyway, should get a really good deal, right, So the price started out at four million, then the next conversation there were at eight million. Then the next compsition, they were like nineteen million, and I'm like, this is before we signed a contract.

They kept raising the price on me, so because I figured like, look, they're going to throw these things in scrappy on anyway, should get a really good deal, right, So the price started out at four million, then the next conversation there were at eight million. Then the next compsition, they were like nineteen million, and I'm like, this is before we signed a contract.

By the way, was there another bit? Was there another bid or were you the only one trying to buy them?

By the way, was there another bit? Was there another bid or were you the only one trying to buy them?

I think I don't know if there were other bids, but they didn't mention any other bits. But I was like, man, if if the price is increasing this much before the contract signed, I'm really going to get fleeced.

I think I don't know if there were other bids, but they didn't mention any other bits. But I was like, man, if if the price is increasing this much before the contract signed, I'm really going to get fleeced.

After the contract sign So I got pretty frustrated there.

After the contract sign So I got pretty frustrated there.

Actually, in some cases we got into like shouting matches in Moscow. Some guy shouting at me in Russia and I'm shouting back at.

Actually, in some cases we got into like shouting matches in Moscow. Some guy shouting at me in Russia and I'm shouting back at.

Him and really badly, you know, I'm like, so you are all I mean, you're all.

Him and really badly, you know, I'm like, so you are all I mean, you're all.

In Moscow.

In Moscow.

Yeah, So.

Yeah, So.

Man, I should have recorded that. That would have been one for them.

Man, I should have recorded that. That would have been one for them.

How many days were you there negotiating that first time? I mean it was just like ongoing, yeah, yeah.

How many days were you there negotiating that first time? I mean it was just like ongoing, yeah, yeah.

This this took place.

This this took place.

These conversations took place over probably six months or so so, and then the final trip trip there was with the with was with Mike Reffinue later became as administrator. I actually realized in the course of this that my original premise was wrong, that that America actually has plenty of will to go to Mars, but needs that. It just needs a way to Mars that is affordable and that doesn't break the budget.

These conversations took place over probably six months or so so, and then the final trip trip there was with the with was with Mike Reffinue later became as administrator. I actually realized in the course of this that my original premise was wrong, that that America actually has plenty of will to go to Mars, but needs that. It just needs a way to Mars that is affordable and that doesn't break the budget.

You know, just as you know, we couldn't even get to the space station. We needed the Russians to get us to our own space station.

You know, just as you know, we couldn't even get to the space station. We needed the Russians to get us to our own space station.

That was embarrasing.

That was embarrasing.

It really was pitiful.

It really was pitiful.

I'm not sure most Americans know just how much we're being fleeceed. Like I think they got up to like ninety million.

I'm not sure most Americans know just how much we're being fleeceed. Like I think they got up to like ninety million.

Dollars a seat.

Dollars a seat.

Yeah wow, Yeah, well for a seat that custom like ten.

Yeah wow, Yeah, well for a seat that custom like ten.

Was predge obviously, but it was the only.

Was predge obviously, but it was the only.

Yeah it was before SpaceX.

Yeah it was before SpaceX.

Ninety million dollars a seat for a seat that cost them ten million is high.

Ninety million dollars a seat for a seat that cost them ten million is high.

Yeah, that's a lot of money. Yeah, all right.

Yeah, that's a lot of money. Yeah, all right.

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So a few months ago you and I were down in Bokuchika with a president for a starship launch, and it is incredible what you built in Bocachica. You know, five years ago it was an empty beach.

So a few months ago you and I were down in Bokuchika with a president for a starship launch, and it is incredible what you built in Bocachica. You know, five years ago it was an empty beach.

At the southern tip of tex Soundbara.

At the southern tip of tex Soundbara.

And it's now a city and a factory where you're building a rocket ship a month with incredible precision. But one of the things you said to me when we were down there that really stood out me is is is you said your philosophy on intellectual property talk to lots of CEOs or we fight to guard our I p and and you had a very different approach. What's what's your view.

And it's now a city and a factory where you're building a rocket ship a month with incredible precision. But one of the things you said to me when we were down there that really stood out me is is is you said your philosophy on intellectual property talk to lots of CEOs or we fight to guard our I p and and you had a very different approach. What's what's your view.

Of I P patents of the week, patterns of for those that innovation slowly.

Of I P patents of the week, patterns of for those that innovation slowly.

I literally do not know anyone else in business who would say something like that, like like it was a startling and and and and what Elon said down there is he said, look this stuff. I assume everyone will steal everything, but by the time they steal it will be five generations beyond and it won't matter.

I literally do not know anyone else in business who would say something like that, like like it was a startling and and and and what Elon said down there is he said, look this stuff. I assume everyone will steal everything, but by the time they steal it will be five generations beyond and it won't matter.

Yes, at Tesla, we actually open sourcedal Lite patents. So we said our patents are anyone can use them for free. Really yeah, uh. The only wily do patents of Tesla to to avoid patent.

Yes, at Tesla, we actually open sourcedal Lite patents. So we said our patents are anyone can use them for free. Really yeah, uh. The only wily do patents of Tesla to to avoid patent.

Trolls causing causing trouble.

Trolls causing causing trouble.

So we'll try to look ahead and say, okay, patent trolls are going to trial file patterns to blocks and things, will file patents and then open source to make it free.

So we'll try to look ahead and say, okay, patent trolls are going to trial file patterns to blocks and things, will file patents and then open source to make it free.

I mean, I'm want to say patents for the week. Now.

I mean, I'm want to say patents for the week. Now.

There are a few cases, in say with pharmaceuticals, where it might cost you billion dollars to do a Phase three human file, but then subsequently the drug is very cheap to manufacture. So cases there are some in my opinion, which would massively reduced what can be patented. And and say, because the whole point of patenting is to maximize innovation, not inhibit it. And in my opinion, maybe a controversial opinion, most patents inhibit innovation, they do not help it. But there are case I want to do one a single cases like where such as a phase three clinical trial. It might cost a billion dollars, but then the drugs thereafter cost a few dollars to manufacture, and if you can then immediately copy those drugs for a few dollars, no one will pay for the billion dollars free writer problem exactly. So you have to address the free writer problem. But other than that, there should be no patents. The ideas are easy.

There are a few cases, in say with pharmaceuticals, where it might cost you billion dollars to do a Phase three human file, but then subsequently the drug is very cheap to manufacture. So cases there are some in my opinion, which would massively reduced what can be patented. And and say, because the whole point of patenting is to maximize innovation, not inhibit it. And in my opinion, maybe a controversial opinion, most patents inhibit innovation, they do not help it. But there are case I want to do one a single cases like where such as a phase three clinical trial. It might cost a billion dollars, but then the drugs thereafter cost a few dollars to manufacture, and if you can then immediately copy those drugs for a few dollars, no one will pay for the billion dollars free writer problem exactly. So you have to address the free writer problem. But other than that, there should be no patents. The ideas are easy.

You want ideas to flow maximum to people, to get there faster and do things bigger.

You want ideas to flow maximum to people, to get there faster and do things bigger.

The idea is the easy pot. The herd execution is the hard part.

The idea is the easy pot. The herd execution is the hard part.

As the old saying goes, it's one percent inspiration, if not less than one percent, and nineteen nine percent perspiration.

As the old saying goes, it's one percent inspiration, if not less than one percent, and nineteen nine percent perspiration.

But I'll say the perspiration part you're really damn good at. Also because you're making you know, the companies you're building are actually building stuff they're building cars, they're building spaceships, they're building things that if they don't work, it's a real problem. And the precision you manufacture things with, how do you get that level of precision? How do you get how do you build a culture? You're not You're amazing at thinking outside the box. But what's interesting is you you may even be better at execution, which is how do you execute so effectively?

But I'll say the perspiration part you're really damn good at. Also because you're making you know, the companies you're building are actually building stuff they're building cars, they're building spaceships, they're building things that if they don't work, it's a real problem. And the precision you manufacture things with, how do you get that level of precision? How do you get how do you build a culture? You're not You're amazing at thinking outside the box. But what's interesting is you you may even be better at execution, which is how do you execute so effectively?

Well, I take a physics fresh principles approach to everything. It's not as though I wanted to in source manufacturing. It's just that I was unable to outsource it effectively. So uh, you know, the idea at the beginning of Tesla was that we would outsource.

Well, I take a physics fresh principles approach to everything. It's not as though I wanted to in source manufacturing. It's just that I was unable to outsource it effectively. So uh, you know, the idea at the beginning of Tesla was that we would outsource.

Almost all the manufacturing.

Almost all the manufacturing.

But then it turned out there was no there were no good companies to outsourced manufacturing too, which there wasn't a really really, it wasn't peaceable outsourced manufacturing actually is the exception of the rule. And and just over time, we had to insource almost everything for Tesla and same for SpaceX. I became very good at manufacturing because I had to use no choice. At this point, I might know more about manufacturing than any any human ever has, because I've done so many. I've manufactured so many different things and so many different arenas. I think probably more than anyone ever has.

But then it turned out there was no there were no good companies to outsourced manufacturing too, which there wasn't a really really, it wasn't peaceable outsourced manufacturing actually is the exception of the rule. And and just over time, we had to insource almost everything for Tesla and same for SpaceX. I became very good at manufacturing because I had to use no choice. At this point, I might know more about manufacturing than any any human ever has, because I've done so many. I've manufactured so many different things and so many different arenas. I think probably more than anyone ever has.

Look, that's that sounds like an astonishing statement, but it's not a crazy statement. And you're somehow running Tesla and running SpaceX and running X and running the Boring Company and running Norlink and doing doge. How much do you sleep in a given night?

Look, that's that sounds like an astonishing statement, but it's not a crazy statement. And you're somehow running Tesla and running SpaceX and running X and running the Boring Company and running Norlink and doing doge. How much do you sleep in a given night?

About six hours and average.

About six hours and average.

So about six So so that's it wouldn't have shocked me if you said three or four.

So about six So so that's it wouldn't have shocked me if you said three or four.

So the cornets rush is how many hours do you work a day?

So the cornets rush is how many hours do you work a day?

I work almost every working hour.

I work almost every working hour.

And Ben, he's not kidding that. Like when Elan and I were first getting to know each other, I suggested, I said, hey, let let's grab dinner sometime. And I don't know if you remember what you said. You said, I don't eat dinner. I don't have social dinners really right, I mean that, Yeah, I mean you obviously eat food, but yeah, idea going to a restaurant for two hours, But the idea of like, I don't, But it was it was just kind of a matter of fact. Why would I go to dinner like you jump you work? Uh?

And Ben, he's not kidding that. Like when Elan and I were first getting to know each other, I suggested, I said, hey, let let's grab dinner sometime. And I don't know if you remember what you said. You said, I don't eat dinner. I don't have social dinners really right, I mean that, Yeah, I mean you obviously eat food, but yeah, idea going to a restaurant for two hours, But the idea of like, I don't, But it was it was just kind of a matter of fact. Why would I go to dinner like you jump you work? Uh?

Yeah, I interally just I'll have lunch, and then it brought during meetings and continue being.

Yeah, I interally just I'll have lunch, and then it brought during meetings and continue being.

How many nights have you slept at your offices? You think your career percentage wise where you say, I just got to take this nap basically because my body forces me to, and I got to get back to work fast and efficiently without going somewhere else.

How many nights have you slept at your offices? You think your career percentage wise where you say, I just got to take this nap basically because my body forces me to, and I got to get back to work fast and efficiently without going somewhere else.

Well, I guess it started out even with the first company two which is a terrible name, but the first interror company, we were able to rent an office which was like in a leaky attack essentially for five hundred dollars a month, and the cheapest apartment we could find was eight hundred dollars a month. So like, and we only had about five thousand dollars between our brother and I, so like we're not we'll we'll, we'll.

Well, I guess it started out even with the first company two which is a terrible name, but the first interror company, we were able to rent an office which was like in a leaky attack essentially for five hundred dollars a month, and the cheapest apartment we could find was eight hundred dollars a month. So like, and we only had about five thousand dollars between our brother and I, so like we're not we'll we'll, we'll.

Just stay in the office. Yep. So we got some.

Just stay in the office. Yep. So we got some.

Couches that converted into beds and we'd can't sleep at night, and then we just have like turn the beds back into couches before anyone came, and then we would shout the Y M C A down the road and so that went that that that that literally was for several months.

Couches that converted into beds and we'd can't sleep at night, and then we just have like turn the beds back into couches before anyone came, and then we would shout the Y M C A down the road and so that went that that that that literally was for several months.

What we did, it was in great shape. You know, we work out the y.

What we did, it was in great shape. You know, we work out the y.

I still remember that that YFC at Page Miller al Camino in Palo Alto.

I still remember that that YFC at Page Miller al Camino in Palo Alto.

So that was a long time.

So that was a long time.

Again, so it's been I don't know. I've never thought to count it, but several hundred days maybe, I don't know.

Again, so it's been I don't know. I've never thought to count it, but several hundred days maybe, I don't know.

So you're now the richest man on earth? Do you still sleep at the office, Well, that's true, maybe Mars, we'll find someone else.

So you're now the richest man on earth? Do you still sleep at the office, Well, that's true, maybe Mars, we'll find someone else.

But I think if someone is a sovereign head of a country there to facto richer by a lot.

But I think if someone is a sovereign head of a country there to facto richer by a lot.

Do you still sleep at the office now?

Do you still sleep at the office now?

I have sometimes slept at the office. Yeah, don't forget.

I have sometimes slept at the office. Yeah, don't forget.

We do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Hit that subscriber auto download button from the White House. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for being with us.

We do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Hit that subscriber auto download button from the White House. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for being with us.

Some verdict.

Some verdict.

We'll see you guys back here in a couple of days.

We'll see you guys back here in a couple of days.