In part 2 with podcaster & writer Jonathan Hirsch (creator of podcasts like Dear Franklin Jones), Lola & Meagan discuss life in the cult of Franklin Jones, aka Adi Da. They discuss the dramatic meditation rituals in the group, what it felt like to get blessed by the leader, and how different members saw some of the same things that had happened completely differently, depending on whether they still believed in him later or not.

They discuss the lawsuits and allegations against Jones and how the cult panic of the time impacted the way his followers saw them, the importance of being able to admit when you’re wrong, and how ultimately Jonathan left.

SOURCES

Dear Franklin Jones

The Mind Is Burning

 

In part 2 with podcaster &amp; writer Jonathan Hirsch (creator of podcasts like Dear Franklin Jones), Lola &amp; Meagan discuss life in the cult of Franklin Jones, aka Adi Da. They discuss the dramatic meditation rituals in the group, what it felt like to get blessed by the leader, and how different members saw some of the same things that had happened completely differently, depending on whether they still believed in him later or not. They discuss the lawsuits and allegations against Jones and how the cult panic of the time impacted the way his followers saw them, the importance of being able to admit when you&rsquo;re wrong, and how ultimately Jonathan left.
SOURCES
<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dear-franklin-jones/id1348032695">Dear Franklin Jones</a>
<a href="https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Mind-Is-Burning/Jonathan-Hirsch/9781797190464">The Mind Is Burning</a>
&nbsp;

Trust Me is a weekly interview podcast about cults, extreme belief, and the fine line between devotion and delusion—told through firsthand accounts from the people who lived it. Hosted by two women who’ve been in cults themselves, Lola Blanc and Meagan Elizabeth, the show features survivors from groups like Heaven’s Gate, the Manson Family, NXIVM, OneTaste and more–sharing personal stories of how they got in, how they got out, and everything in between.

Each week, they invite these guests alongside experts who can dive deep into seductive leaders, the darker aspects of organized religion, and the subtler shades of groupthink and the psychology of influence. Trust Me explores it all with unfiltered honesty, dark humor, and a lot of heart. This isn’t a sensationalized deep dive into cults—it’s a compassionate, first-person exploration of what it means to believe, to belong, and to break free. At the end of the day, wanting to believe in something bigger than yourself is one of the most human instincts there is.

Trust Me is a weekly interview podcast about cults, extreme belief, and the fine line between devotion and delusion&mdash;told through firsthand accounts from the people who lived it.&nbsp;Hosted by two women who&rsquo;ve been in cults themselves, Lola Blanc and Meagan Elizabeth, the show&nbsp;features survivors from groups like Heaven&rsquo;s Gate, the Manson Family, NXIVM, OneTaste and more&ndash;sharing personal stories of how they got in, how they got out, and everything in between.
Each week, they invite&nbsp;these guests&nbsp;alongside experts who can dive deep into seductive leaders, the darker aspects of organized religion, and the subtler shades of groupthink and the psychology of influence. Trust Me explores it all with unfiltered honesty, dark humor, and a lot of heart.&nbsp;This isn&rsquo;t a sensationalized deep dive into cults&mdash;it&rsquo;s a compassionate, first-person exploration of what it means to believe, to belong, and to break free.&nbsp;At the end of the day, wanting to believe in something bigger than yourself is one of the most human instincts there is.

Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Jonathan Hirsch, Part 2 - Meditation, Getting Blessed, and Leaving Adidam

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/e73dc260-38bd-4ddd-b015-b3da01630798/transcript

This week’s guest is Makelle Bistline, who grew up in the polygamist sect the FLDS and became one of the wives of self-proclaimed prophet Samuel Bateman–ultimately playing a crucial role in bringing him down. Makelle did not appear in the Netflix series Trust Me, which follows how Lola’s mom got him arrested, but her involvement in the takedown was instrumental. In part one, she reveals what it was like growing up under Warren Jeffs’ teachings, falling asleep to recordings of his voice, and watching Sam Bateman claim to be the new prophet.

Makelle explains how secretly listening to Taylor Swift helped her question what she’d been taught about the outside world, the waysshe resisted Bateman’s control, and how escalating pressure and being sent away eventually led her to become his 22nd wife. Next week, she’ll return to share how she began sneakily communicating with Lola’s mom and passing evidence to authorities.

This week&rsquo;s guest is Makelle Bistline, who grew up in the polygamist sect the FLDS and became one of the wives of self-proclaimed prophet Samuel Bateman&ndash;ultimately playing a crucial role in bringing him down. Makelle did not appear in the Netflix series Trust Me, which follows how Lola&rsquo;s mom got him arrested, but her involvement in the takedown was instrumental. In part one, she reveals what it was like growing up under Warren Jeffs&rsquo; teachings, falling asleep to recordings of his voice, and watching Sam Bateman claim to be the new prophet. Makelle explains how secretly listening to Taylor Swift helped her question what she&rsquo;d been taught about the outside world, the ways she resisted Bateman&rsquo;s control, and how escalating pressure and being sent away eventually led her to become his 22nd wife. Next week, she&rsquo;ll return to share how she began sneakily communicating with Lola&rsquo;s mom and passing evidence to authorities.

Makelle Bistline, Part 1 - The FLDS, Marrying Sam Bateman, and Resisting Control Through Taylor Swift

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/c2f7f3c1-4470-424e-9134-b4e80176e49e/transcript

This week, the girls are joined again by Felicia Rosario, survivor of the cult at Sarah Lawrence, led by a man named Larry Ray. Today Felicia, who previously came on the show along with fellow survivor Daniel Levin, explains how Larry drew her in over time by love bombing her, winning over her social circle first, and using his genuinely powerful connections to give himself a mystique and an air of authority.

Felicia shares more about Larry’s crimes and abuse, what made her decide to finally finally decide to leave, and the life she’s built for herself since—as an expert witness testifying about coercion. She explains some of the factors one can point to in court toestablish that someone has been under coercive control. They also discuss the Cornell case and how common it is for people to behave unexpectedly when they’ve just experienced something traumatic.

SOURCES

Felicia Rosario Consulting

This week, the girls are joined again by Felicia Rosario, survivor of the cult at Sarah Lawrence, led by a man named Larry Ray. Today Felicia, who previously came on the show along with fellow survivor Daniel Levin, explains how Larry drew her in over time&nbsp;by love bombing her, winning over her social circle first, and using his genuinely powerful connections to give himself a mystique and an air of authority.
Felicia shares more about Larry&rsquo;s crimes and abuse, what made her decide to finally finally decide to leave, and the life she&rsquo;s built for herself since&mdash;as an expert witness testifying about coercion. She explains some of the factors&nbsp;one can point to in court to establish that someone has been under coercive control. They also discuss the Cornell case and how common it is for people to behave unexpectedly when they&rsquo;ve just experienced something traumatic.
SOURCES
<a href="https://www.feliciarosario.com/">Felicia Rosario Consulting</a>

Felicia Rosario - Larry Ray’s Coercive Tactics, Life After the Sarah Lawrence Cult, and Becoming an Expert Witness

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/63cd2d89-2d80-4a43-a61a-b4e2014f5e8e/transcript

This week, author and historian Stephen Kinzer joins Trust Me to discuss his book, Poisoner in Chief, and its subject: chemist Sidney Gottlieb, who led mind control experiments in the CIA’s Project MKUltra. Stephen explains who Gottlieb was and how he came to lead this harrowing attempt to control the human mind, what Operation Paperclip was (the US saved doctor-torturers from Nazi Germany and Japan and gave them jobs), and how the CIA began experimenting on subjects in other countries in horrific ways—all in the name of patriotism and “fighting communism.”

Stephen describes Gottlieb’s obsession with LSD and how the CIA began conducting drug experiments on inmates, people in psychiatric institutions, and other unwitting folks. He discusses the hunt for the perfect mind control tactic, how the word “brainwashing” can’t be separated from the Red Scare, and how none of the experiments were fruitful.

Plus, whether Gottlieb experienced any remorse later in life, and how we have the CIA to thank for the explosion of LSD onto the American scene (and, ironically, the major role it played in the anti-war movement).

SOURCES

Poisoner in Chief: Sidney Gottlieb and the CIA Search for Mind Control

 

This week, author and historian Stephen Kinzer joins Trust Me to discuss his book, Poisoner in Chief, and its subject: chemist Sidney Gottlieb, who led mind control experiments in the CIA&rsquo;s Project MKUltra. Stephen explains who Gottlieb was and how he came to lead this harrowing attempt to control the human mind, what Operation Paperclip was (the US saved doctor-torturers from Nazi Germany and Japan and gave them jobs), and how the CIA began experimenting on subjects in other countries in horrific ways&mdash;all in the name of patriotism and &ldquo;fighting communism.&rdquo;
Stephen describes Gottlieb&rsquo;s obsession with LSD and how the CIA began conducting drug experiments on inmates, people in psychiatric institutions, and other unwitting folks. He discusses the hunt for the perfect mind control tactic, how the word &ldquo;brainwashing&rdquo; can&rsquo;t be separated from the Red Scare, and how none of the experiments were fruitful.
Plus, whether Gottlieb experienced any remorse later in life, and how we have the CIA to thank for the explosion of LSD onto the American scene (and, ironically, the major role it played in the anti-war movement).
SOURCES
<a href="https://stephenkinzer.com/2019/08/poisoner-in-chief-sidney-gottlieb-and-the-cia-search-for-mind-control/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://stephenkinzer.com/2019/08/poisoner-in-chief-sidney-gottlieb-and-the-cia-search-for-mind-control/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1791405306160000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3SHHAtSshU-qxgSP8dCUG2">Poisoner in Chief: Sidney Gottlieb and the CIA Search for Mind Control</a>
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Stephen Kinzer - MKUltra, Sidney Gottlieb, and the CIA’s Hunt For Mind Control

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/b664f94f-953d-412a-8d0e-b4db014b4782/transcript

Jonathan Hirsch, Part 2 - Meditation, Getting Blessed, and Leaving Adidam

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Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

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