Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy Hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session Therapy for Black Girls podcasts. Are you someone who's constantly putting things off into the last minute? I know this is something I'm definitely guilty of, and sometimes I can figure out why I'm procrastinating, and other times it's not so easy to figure out. So I wanted to chat with someone today to help us try to figure out what might actually be behind all the procrastinating we do in our lives. For this conversation, I was joined by Dr Millette and Dolla. Dr and Dolla is a licensed psychologist working in the suburbs of Atlanta, She works mainly with adult clients facing concerns around anxiety, depression, relationship concerns, trauma, immigrant life, and identity concerns. DR and Dolla and I chatted about the different ways we procrastinate, how to get a better understanding of what's driving our procrastination, some tips for getting a little bit better at not procrastinating, and she shared some of her favorite resource is to help you out if you're still looking for more information. If you hear anything that really resonates with you while listening, please be sure to share it with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr and Dollar. You're very welcome, glad to be here. Yes, so we are going to be talking more about a topic that we started at the World to Be Well a couple of weeks ago that we had here in Atlanta. And when I heard your topic announced, I was like, Oh, I definitely want to hear more about this. I think all of us could benefit, absolutely absolutely. So the topic we're gonna be chatting more today about is procrastination and like the real deal behind procrastination. So what do you think we should know about procrastination, dr and dollar procrastination when you go into kind of like what is the how is that formally defined? Basically, it's an act of unnecessarily postponing decisions actions that you don't need to be made. Right. It's not forgetting, it's not you know, sometimes people will judge themselves or somebody else who has to press it a lot. So it's not about laziness. It's not that people don't care. But there's an internal psychological process that's happening that's keeping you from pursuing something at a pace that would be most efficient. Mmmm. Okay, and that feels like the key they are like the most efficient piece. You're right. Sometimes people will say I work best under pressure and kind of push things off into the last minute, and then that helps, you know, kind of produce something really quick. But if you think of it like logically, if you're working at something on something at a at a reasonable page, it's probably gonna be more quality work, it's probably gonna be less stressful. But all of that gets lost in procrastination. Okay, So if that is the case, then why do we do it? That's the million dollar question. Dollar answers. So basically, whenever we have a task, that's especially when it's something that's important to us and we need to get something done, there's two main processes that we rely on, right, So number one, of course is self control, like how can you control kind of how you skepule in your time and your structure yourself to be efficient. And then also motivation. You actually have to have motivation to do something in order to get it done efficiently quickly. So you know, for example, cleaning your house, you might have all the self control and structure in place, but if you really don't enjoy cleaning your house, that can become a test that procrastination can be applied in. Right, And what happens is is that we encounter what are called demotivating factors. These at of things like anxiety, fear of failure, a lot of times kind of emotional processes that that hinder both our motivation and then eventually our self control. Right. In addition to demotivating factors, there's also things that are called hindering fact so things like how exhausted are you, like mental exhaustion, or you know, I have an idea of like a case example of for example, somebody who wants to apply to med school, right, and something like that. Sometimes the rewards that we gain from the particular thing that we feel like we need to do are so far in the future that there really isn't any reward system in place presently that keeps us motivated. And so when you encounter a situation where these demotivating factors and hindering factors get in your way, they outweigh the benefits of it in the present. That's when you start to procrastinate. Ah, So all along we're just thinking like, oh, I just don't want to do this, but there's all this stuff playing out in the background. There's all this stuff, and honestly, you know, all of that, everything that I just said can be kind of grouped into what people might say psychobabble. The bottom line of it, to kind of simplify that is emotions. Emotions get in the way. Right. A lot of times when we're procrastinating, there's something about the activity that brings up negative emotions for us, negative feeling, stress, anxiety, boredom, whatever it is. And your body, your mind basically says, stopping feeling whatever I'm feeling right now is more important than this task or whatever consequences from this task. Maybe, and I'm just not going to do it and I'm going to go do something else that I feel better. That's the simple process. So it sounds like a lot of maybe what my help to manage procrastination would be really getting in touch with these emotions. That's it, Yeah, that's it. Okay. So if we stick with the example maybe of applying to like medical school, you said, one of the main hindering factors would be that, like, the payoff is so far out in the future that you can't necessarily connected to any immediate reward. What might be some of the emotions underneath that kind of an example, So some of the emotions might be things like, I'm going to be judged when I do this application. What if people basically laugh at my application? Right? What if it's not good enough? What if I don't get in? Fear of not getting in? There's also the opposite, right of that, that people really don't think about when we talk about procrastination or think about it. But what if I do get That could be the paring of itself, right, because there may be this perception of I have to learn to function at this next higher level. What if I can't do that? And if I get in, I'm going to have to function in that space all the time, and what if I just what if I failed? Yes, so some of the fear of success stuff popping up there. Yeah, I'm guessing most people don't have any awareness of this necessarily, right, Like, it feels like some of this would be playing out very rapidly so that you wouldn't even necessarily know that this is connected to the procrastination. Oh absolutely, I mean I can even talk for my own personal experience of I have some writing to do or paperwork I need to do, I'm just gonna go check Facebook, or I'm just like play this game. I'm just gonna play one one round and then thirty minutes later, you know nothing is done, and now I'm even more anxious. It's a very quick process that happens. So how do you suggest maybe slowing down the process. There are basically four stuffs that you want to think about implumencing when prorastination is a problem. Um Number one is is this goal a good fit for you? Right? So, for something like do I want to go to med school? Or not really thinking about what is your motivation for going to med school? You know, sometimes it's I don't even want to go, but my family expects you to go. So what are the factors around this being a goal for you? How much does it fit with your goals in life? Period? Basically, why am I doing what I need to do right? Then? If that is the issue, then there's some work around that that you can do. Once you've explored your goals and why you're doing what you're doing, next step is figuring out when, how and why you progress me So, going back to this med school process, is it at the very beginning? Is it you know, I don't even know if I want to do this? Is it I don't know what the steps are to apply to med school and get into med school successfully? Is it I know the stuffs, but I'm overwhelmed, or you know some of those fears that we talked about earlier, Will I get in? What if I get in? Will I get into a good school? And are those the hindrances it could be around the am cat So you already know that you want to do this, you know how to do this, but then you think about now it's time to study and sign up for ABCAT and then what's happening there? Could there be possible a d h D or a learning disability or test anxiety. Are you feeling overwhelmed with the studying process and need help structuring that or is it the actual application? So again, this is where some of the fears come in. I fear a failure, perfectionism, your success, just being a rewhelmed. So understanding when, how and why I procrastinate on this specific task. Step three is you want to create a plan of action based on this research that you've done around how, when and why I specifically procrastinate on this particular task. And then step four is implementing that plan and then also having a system in place to monitor the progress because sometimes we'll come up with the plan, but then we'll need to tweak in as we go along as things shift, so you want to make sure you're also kind of monitoring how the new plan is going. Got it okay? And do you think that these four steps are something that you could do by yourself or would you need to be working with a therapist to do this? No, there's a whole sort of professionalists that you can reach out to right to help you with depending on where kind of the issue lies for you specifically anywhere along this like the four steps, a therapist would be fantastic to have as a way of helping you work the steps, helping you even figure out out the answers to some of these questions. So therapy is definitely I think beneficial along the way, especially if there's anxiety, fear, if you're getting overwhelmed, different things like that, therapy is helpful. There are also a lot of coaches. For example, you know around that I've mentioned a minute ago about MCAT and possible a d h D or learning disability. There are coaches that specifically working people with the a d h D diagnosis or learning disability diagnosis to help you really understand what that diagnosis means, to look at how it manifests for you specifically because that varies from person in person, and to help you come up with a clear plan of limiting the negative impact that has on your life. I can also think about career counselors, career coaches. So going back to the earlier questions of isn't that school the right for me? So there are professionals around career decision making can help navigate that, and there are people you can hire who can help you even with you know, if you're overwhelmed by the steps of applying to my school, their professionals who do that. So the bottom line is, you know, we're using this meth school application process as an example, but whatever it is for different people, there probably are professionals out there who can help you work those steps. Mm hmmm. Yeah, And it seems like a lot of you know, like before we get to step three and four in terms of the action plan and like assessing the plan, you really need to spend a lot of time at step number once I kind of figure out where the procrastination is coming from. Because if it's related to my family wants me to be a doctor, but I don't really want to, that's a different kind of plan of action. Right then, If you know, I have a learning disability that is making the MCAT difficult for me, that's going to be a different plan exactly. Yeah, Okay, So what might the kind of really teasing out step number one look like? So let me think about another example of um something that's procrastination. And again I'll use myself as an example. Right, so I'm co editing a book right now on Therapy for African American Women. I'm responsible for co writing one of these chapters in there, and I'm finding that over the past month that I have a couple of months I'm really not putting in. I'm not producing those pages the way I had it in my mind of the case that I was going to be working at, and I had to kind of pause and reflect on what's going on that's creating this and so things that I found that that potentially could be factors for different people right One of them is, UM, what is your overall you know, I call it like even with therapy, whenever I do therapy with people, kind of your baseline of self care. How are you doing with eating, how are you doing with sleeping, exercise, balance between work and rest. Um that really helps UM set your body up to be at the optical MIIT pace of of productivity, of managing stress, all of that. And one thing that I've learned recently that I've come to terms with is how I had expectations of myself, of my productivity level, of what that looked like before I had a child, versus what that looks like now with a three and a half year old who doesn't sleep through the night. So I was setting a pace for myself of how the academic me used to perform back in the day before family, before kids, and expecting myself to replicate that that that now when life circumstances have completely shifted, and so really looking at what are your life circumstances currently, how do you accommodate for the things that are you know, family responsibilities, work that have to get done in addition to this particular goal, how do those things fit together? I think in general another factor that will come up for people if there is a area there is some level of anxiety that gets kicked up with procrastination. Either procrastination you're experiencing anxiety and so you are procrastinating as a as an emotion regulation tool right, using procrastination too to manage anxiety. Or if you allow the procrastination to go far long enough, it will create anxiety for you because there are these things that really need to get done that are important, they're not getting done and added stress to your life. So having really good stress and anxiety anxiety management tools are important both in preventing procrastination but then also in managing when it is there there are also some things that people can think about around efficient time management skills that you'll want to look at. And again these there are professionals who can help you implement this. But how do you do with structuring yourself? How do you do with setting limits? You know that the self control piece that I mentioned for the beginning, and there there really are these systems in place that can make all of this easier, but they're not necessarily intuitive. And there are people who really perfected this as an art form who can help you, again look at your specific scenario or your kind of time and availability and help you identify really good time management tools. So I want to take a step back to something that you said, um in the beginning of our chat. And I think a lot of people identify this way, this whole idea of like I work best under pressure. And I think there are some people that really really believe that. And so they, you know, almost as a habit and as a ritual, will kind of wait us of the last minute because they feel like that produces some of their best work. So how would you kind of talk to somebody or help them examine like is this really accurate? Right? So? And I think that's a really good question. Is this really accurate? Um? For some people it may be. And I know, you know, at the event where I first was talking to a group of people about destination, one of the things that came up was one person brought up things around school work and getting things turned in on time and really hitting that send button on an assignment at eleven you know, when it's do at em And I asked, well, okay, So two things to keep in mind. One, what is the emotional impact the stress level that this process creates for you? And to how do you feel about the grades that you're getting. Now, if the stress level that this is creating is manageable, it's not fun. But you know, the reality is we do need a little bit of stress to produce. That's part of that stress versus distress difference. A little bit of stress is actually a motivating things. So that's not necessarily a bad thing. Um. But as long as the stress is not overwhelming, and as long as you're okay with the grades that you're bringing in, then it's maybe it's not a problem. Maybe it really is part of your process. However, if even one of those is at a level that feels not cholerable problem. That's when you know that something needs to change. M Okay, So you'd be looking at like, what's the level of impact that this really has for you? What's the impactful for you in terms of UM, your stress and kind of your emotional process, and also in achieving the goals that you're working towards. Are you still making progress and moving forward at a pace that feels good enough? Mm hmmm. Something else that I think would be really be important to chat about is um And we talked about this a lot in the community. A lot of people kind of get into this perfectionism UM when really what they're doing is procrastinating, but they're kind of have kind of created this narrative like I just wanted to be perfect. I can't you know, work, I have to work until it is perfect. Absolutely. That's one of the things that it's actually a huge tep around this is avoid that perfectionist mindset, right. It's really it really goes back to and it's it's kind of the language I used to just a second ago with UM that waiting until the last minute, what is good enough? Especially around projects that are really big UM And I say that and sometimes people will hear what is good enough and automatically view that as a deficit or something that is less than. But you really have to look at yourself holistically, meaning what are all the different roles that you have in your life, what are all the different responsibilities that you have in your life? Who are all the people that are depending on you in your life? Um? And if you're aiming for perfect in every single one of those areas, you will burn out. That's not a sustainable pace. And so really being successful and at peace in life, to me, it comes from modulating that. And so some days I show up for my kid and I'm at from my kid because I know he needs it in this moment. Other Times I say, you know, I reach out to family I need to support with this kid because there's I have lines that need more from me right now, and so I show up for them. Other times it's, um, you know, professional commitments or personal commitments. I just got back from a trip to see, you know, my best friend, and there are other things that have to be put on the back burner in order to be able to make that happen. So I think when people think about perfectionism, they kind of get hyper focused on specific areas of their life and forget that there are a whole person with multiple pieces of them that are going out at any given moment. Does that make sense? And really thinking of yourself holistically and what would perfectionism? What would that do to you if you're trying to show up from that place in every area of your life. Yeah, And I think that goes back to the conversation that you talked about earlier related to the anxiety, right, because what what is this idea of perfection? Like does perfection really exist in any areas? I think towards this thing that's not realistic, then you will never feel like you're ready to kind of unleash this thing, right, you know, So thinking about it again in the contest of anxiety and in managing some some type of anxiety for you, And that's where therapy can be helpful, because really it's a more beneficial way to think about kind of how you show up in different spaces as kind of working progress and something that you're honing on a constant basis. And so rather than thinking about the end product of perfectionism, thinking about it as I'm working to improvement. I'm working towards being better and doing better, and as long as you're making movement towards that, that feels fulfilling, that feels satisfying. But sometimes it takes a little bit of therapy around that to to really really accept that for yourself. M hmmm. Yeah. So something else I wanted to expound on Dr and Dola that you talked about at the Will to Be Will was this whole idea of as entrepreneurs and as you know, like post grad school or post undergrad when you're used to maybe having a very traditional schedule where somebody like planned out what you were supposed to be doing and okay, this is due then and then when you're not in a traditional setting necessarily with people telling you like what to do and how to spend your time, how there can be the struggle to like figure out how to do that for yourself. Yes, no external structure to create it all for yourself. Yeah, So what are some of your tips around that? Number one is it goes back to kind of what we said about Number one for managing procrastinations, What are your goals? What why are you an entrepreneur? What are you why are you doing this? And really having a clearly defined idea of what it is that you're you're trying to achieve and recognizing that there are steps to that. Right, so you're not going to go from zero to one hundred in building a business in two point two seconds, So really understanding what it is that you're trying to cheat. And for many of us that are going into entrepreneurship, part of that is autonomy. Part of that is having more freedom to manage your schedule and structure yourself and to have the freedom to do that. And sometimes what we end up doing is we go and and force that high level, kind of intense structure on ourselves that we were trying to get away from in the first place. Right, there really has to be an understanding that each of us is human, we have limits and if we again we have to start with basic self care, eating, sleeping, some level of exercise, um where physically we are able to to kind of run this long race. If we go hard too much to too soon, you will burn out. And so what you have to have a plan to that prevents burnout once again. Then when you're once you're able to accept that that um, there is a process to this. There's an extended timeline to the is that, um, there is going to be you know, the entrepreneurship. There's ups and downs and cycles that that are a natural part of this process. Then you can really think about what is the structure again that speaks to my whole self, and that speaks to who I am as a person and the responsibilities that I hold um in my life, whether it's family, friends, you know, different spaces, and how do you creating a structure that respects all of that? If that makes sense? M h yeah, And I don't think I had thought about that, right, Like how sometimes the drive to entrepreneurship is to kind of get away from all these things that we don't enjoy. But because it is sometimes all we know, we end up replicating that same system in our own businesses. And not only is it that's all we know, it's also anxiety. Right, So if I'm not pulling in all these hours, is my business going to make it? Right? So that fear of like is this business is this? Is it's going to grow the way I needed to, my bringing an income that I need to It becomes fear based decision making rather than kind of a more sustainable of decision making process. Mm hmmm, that's a great point. Thank you for sharing it. So something I know that I have struggled with that I know you talked about as well, is this whole idea of kind of understanding yourself as either a morning person or an evening person. And so, you know, I again have struggling with this myself because I do think I'm much more of an evening person. But the rest of the world, you know, like stuff is open nine to five, right and even though I have my birth of energy at night, you know, FedEx is not open at three in the morning, right, you know. So so how do you manage that? Because I think sometimes I will procress the need to doing things more in the evening because I feel like that's where my you know, energy is, when really I may be more efficient during it doing it during the day. So there's a difference between tasks that require others versus things that you can do on your own time. So what you want to do is really identify your productivity cycle, like really being honest for yourself, are you that night out that can stay up until three or four in the morning and be okay? So putting in things that really structuring things that you can do independently, things that you need kind of uninterrupted time for during those hours that you're most productive. And then um, things that require others, things that can be outsourced, putting at things, UM, putting those during kind of traditional business hours. That that makes sense when you, you know, thinking about entrepreneurship, it's such a there's so many things that are required and running a business. You can absolutely fit the things that feel really need your undivided attention into those hours that work best for you, and really other things that require others, you know, moving back to different times, it's it's about um again, going back to planning, having a clear idea of like a task list. This goes back to time management, clear tasks lists, clear calendars, where you're organizing things intentionally. What happens sometimes is, you know, I'll walk into my office, it's Monday morning. I reserve, for example, Monday tuesdays for a documentation, paperwork like all non clinical stuff. Right. I can come in on a Monday morning, walk into my office and think about, okay, now what am I supposed to be doing? Where do I need to start? You know, and you can imagine that day would go in one direction, or I could walk out Friday night with a clear list for myself, leave it here at the office so I don't need to think about it a little weekend, and that way, when I walk in Monday, I have this time blocked out and here's my clear list of things that I want to accomplish. You know, So having that intentionality and planning ahead of punt can help with that. Mm hmm. Yeah. So I mean, sometimes, like you've mentioned, you know, there is a real emotional drive, but sometimes procrastination really is just like the lack of structure and disorganization. And so if you can put more things in place, like you're mentioning, like a Friday night list, so that you walk in on Monday morning doing what to do, then that can help your data run much smoother exactly. Yeah, Even something as simple as what does your workspace look like? Is it organized? Do you have all the tools that you need? Is it contained in one space? Um? Versus? Is it you know, kind of papers everywhere messy? You need to go to the store to pick up printer paper. You know, things like that really affect perfectionism because again, think of the perfectionism is an emotion management tool. And if you can run to the store to go pick up that paper rather than from here and do what you need to do at a moment of stress, you're going to do that. Mm so yeah, so I mean, and again I think you know, we don't always think about how much of this is playing out in our unconscious right, So you're not necessarily purposely having to go do a target run, right, but a target run definitely feels much better than like, this is a long list of things that need to get done, and while you're a target, you might as well stop at the public's next door home. And it keeps going on and on, right right, Yeah, good points, good points. So what are some of your favorite resources dr? And Dalan for anybody who maybe wants to read up more on this or are there any books or videos that you find yourself frequently suggesting for this topic. There is one that really was the ham on for me. UM. It was a New York Times article that came out and it's called Why You Procrastinate? Um. I encourage anybody who's really trying to understand this process to read that article, and it really breaks down this concept of um transt nation being an emotion um influenced thing. So a lot of times we really go into you know, I'm just not structured, or I'm not you know the whole I'm lazy, or I'm forgetful, or all of these things that people judge themselves um in the ways that they judge themselves around this. It really kind of domesticize all of that and lets you know it's very much an emotional management process, and it does a really good job of explaining that. There's also for anybody. You know, like we said, everybody deals with procrastination, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a problem for everybody. If anybody is interested in taking a quiz to see how disruptive their procrastination is, and that's something that needs attention or not, there's a good quiz on very well mind dot com that you can take that has it's like tental questions and really breaks it down to let you know how how disruptive this is for you in particular. And then a lot of the information that I share today comes from a website called Solving Procrastination dot com. It's one of those where you can it really breaks down all the concepts, you know, all the the steps to manage procrastination that I mentioned earlier came from there, and you can even sign up for um sic information for you around different parts of this that you want to target for yourself. Oh, those sounds like incredible resources and we will linked to all of those in the show notes and tell us where we can find you online, So your website as well as any social media handles you'd like to share. Sure, so I am at Atlanta Mental Health Counseling dot com. Um the business is called Crossroads Crossroads Mental Wellness Services and to find me on Twitter, Facebook all that at cross Roads metal Health perfect and we'll add that to the show notes as well. Well. Thank you so much for all this incredible information today, Dr and Dola. I'm sure everybody will appreciate it. I hope it's helpful. Thank you, You're welcome, Thank you. I'm so glad Dr and Dolla was able to share her expertise with us today. To find out more information about her and her practice and the resources she shared, check out the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session. Don't forget to share of this episode with two people in your circle and share your chakeaways with us either on Twitter or in your I G stories using the hashtag tv G in session. Remember that if you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic and meet some other sisters in your area, come on over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take a deeper dive into the topics from the podcast and just about everything else. You can join us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y c C. And don't forget to check out our online store where you can grab a copy of our guided affirmation track, Breakup Journal, or your favorite Therapy for Black Girls T shirts, sweatshirts are mug Go ahead and grab your goodies at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash shop. Thank you all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care