Session 167: The Importance of Self Compassion

Published Aug 5, 2020, 7:00 AM
If there’s anything we can use right now and in the coming months, it’s self compassion! Today I’m joined by Dr. Kristin Neff to chat about the many ways self compassion can be a helpful tool to help us get through difficult times. Dr. Neff and I chatted about what self compassion is, how it’s different from self esteem, how it can be helpful in mediating difficult emotions, and her favorite activity for practicing self compassion.

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While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session one sixty seven of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. If there's anything we can use right now and in the coming months, it's self compassion. Today, I'm joined by Dr Kristin Neff to chat about the many ways self compassion can be a helpful tool to us to get through these difficult times. Kristen is currently an Associate professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin. She's a pioneer in the field of self compassion research, conducting the first empirical studies on self compassion over fifteen years ago. In addition to writing numerous academic articles and book chapters on the topic. She is the author of this book, self Compassion, The Proven Power of being Kind to Yourself, released by William Morrow. In conjunction with her colleague, doctor Chris Jermer, she has developed an empirically supported training program called Mindful Self Compassion, which is taught by thousands of teachers worldwide. Dr Neff and I chatted about what self compassion is, how is different from self esteem, how it can be helpful in mediating difficult emotions, and her favorite activity for practicing self compassion. If anything resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag tbg in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Chris, and I'm really really excited to chat with you. Self compassion was our Yellow Cos Collective book club choice for last month, so it feels very timely for you to be joining us for this conversation. Oh, that's great, wonderful and happy to be here. Yeah. So I wonder if you could start just by talking with us about what self compassion is and what it isn't. Right. So, the easiest way to think of what self compassion is is simply being a good friend to yourself. Right, So, in terms of how you relate to yourself, especially when you're struggling, you're struggling because you feel inadequate, or you made this mistake, or just when life is really difficult, that you treat yourself with the same type of kindness, warmth, care, support, concern that you would naturally show to a good friend, right, And most of us actually don't do that. Most of us if we talk to our friends where we talk to ourselves, we would have no friends, right. And so really, self compassion is just turning that around, kind of doing a you turn and being kind of supportive to ourselves. Now, some people get confused about this. I think that being nice to ourselves mean, you know, being self indulgent, being lazy, being selfish. But actually that's not compassionate. Right. So so if you if you want, the technical definition of compassion is concerned with the alleviation of suffering, right. And so when you're self indulgent or you're lazy, or you know, you aren't helping yourself and you aren't actually lie beating your suffering, you're actually causing yourself more problems in the wrong. Un Also, you know, the word compassion comes from the Latin passion means to suffer and and come means with So there's an inherent connectedness in self compassion. It's a sense that, well, everyone's imperfect, everyone's struggling, you know, it's not just me. And this is what makes self compassion different than something like self pity. And with self compassion, we just remember that this is part of the shared human experience, you know, So it's not just me. And by the way, I have to say that, especially in today's times, whenever I say that, some people think this is like a coded version of like all lives matter, right, then, some of it doesn't acknowledge that some groups suffer more than others. Absolutely they do. The amount of suffering is different and the source of suffering is different. All people in all groups do not suffer the same way, and so we need to acknowledge that as part of the human experience. And yet every single individual, especially when it comes to relating to their own suffering, their own suffering is valid. If you're in pain, if you treat your own pain with a kind of a kind caring response, you will be able to turn your attention outward more effectively. So it really sounds like you know, sometimes we hear this conversation around like grief Olympics are pain Olympics, right where we're trying to say like, oh, my hurt is bigger than your heart, right, yeah, exactly, It's not like that. You aren't saying that my pain is bigger or smaller. I mean you recognize that people's pain different. It's very important, I think, especially nowadays, and we have to recognize, like you know, through structural reasons, the pain of all people is not the same. And yet with self compassion, we can treat our own pain as worthy of a compassionate response. You know, we're just saying that, hey, I am in pain, I am imperfect, and I'm not the only one. It's very simple in that way. But the reason that's so important is because if you get into self pity like what was me for me? Like victim mentality, that's actually not helpfully because the wisdom element to self compassion seeing the bigger picture of things and your place in it. So it's interesting that you mentioned like the structural inequalities that have of course lead to some people suffering being different than others. And there's a quote in your book that talks about and we know this as psychologists, right, that often the critical voice that we established comes from our parents are early caregivers. So the quote in your book is people with critical parents learned the message early on and that they're so bad and flawed that they have no right to be accepted for who they are. And I think that the way that this sometimes plays out, especially in black communities, is that there does tend to be a tendency for parents to maybe be a little more critical as a means of survival. Right, So I need to try to toughen you up for the world before the world has an opportunity to take advantage of you. Yes, absolutely, and so that can be done by parents and also individuals as well. There's this sense being harsh with yourself it's something going to toughen you up, and the problem is that actually doesn't work. But we know, and there's a lot of research showing that when combat veterans who came back from Iraq and Afghanistan I actually saw combat overseas, and so those soldiers who are more supportive to themselves, warm with themselves, were less luckily to develop post traumatic stress syndrome. And so any sort of traumatic situation, whether you know it's a war zone, or whether it's racism, or whether it's sexual assault, or whether it's going through a divorce, or whether it's raising a special needs child. Right, there's a lot of different sources of a struggle in life. If you think of it as when you go into battle, if you're an ally to yourself, if you have your own back, if you're there, if you know that you've got your own support, you aren't gonna abandon yourself. You know, by just not attending to your problems, you're gonna be a warm and supportive and carrying, you're gonna be stronger in battle than if you're an enemy. Cutting yourself down, shaming yourself, that actually doesn't help to be supportive. Supportive doesn't necessarily mean conneling. Sometimes it has to be tough love. But but the difference is there's love. There is that the support comes from a place of love, as opposed to saying you're inadequate, you aren't good enough. And the second you start saying you're inadequate, you aren't good enough and shaming yourself and actually pulls the rug out from underneath you and makes it harder to get through difficult situations. And it's easy to think about when we think about raising our kids. Logically you may have to use tough love. But if you tell your kid you're a worthless loser, you know, how is that going to help them? So I'm wondering if you can say more about the difference between tough love and being critical. I like to talk about there's two types of self compassion. There's yen and young self compassion, and so Yen self compassion since I'm borrowing from Chinese philosophy and is kind of more the passive way of just being with what is very important to be receptive to what is and the young is like taking action where we might have to protect ourselves or you might have to change something motivated change and we always need both right and so being very critical toward ourselves, like harshly critical. There's no yin there's no self acceptance. It's like unless I achieve I'm worthless right or with with the parent, it might be unless unless you do this, I don't love you. So it's so it's in balance. It's all just like action, take action or else. And there's no love same sametime love without like any young. I mean maybe soft love can be coddling. It can be like, you know, just accepting everything you do and sometimes actually causing harm to yourself and others. And it's really not acceptable. You know, you really have to do something to make a change. And so it's like wisdom is this balance of acceptance and change, and we always need both. And so with self compassion, what you have is the bottom line is I care about myself. I'm gonna support myself. I'm not gonna abandon myself. It's like an athletic coach, you know, athletes talk about the difference there's some coaches that just like you know, whip their players in shape, that like beat them down, and it kind of works, but it's not as effective as a really good coach. You may have very high standards to be very exacting, and yet it's clear that the coach is doing it because they believe in you and they want you to achieve your best. And so it's a sense of do I belong and then my worthy of care and respect that makes all the difference in terms of how it impacts this psychologically. So it sounds like there needs to be an understanding of the child or whoever is worth before you can really get into some of this tough love. Like the love has to actually be established, because if you don't, if you don't establish the love, and if it's just criticism and it's not clear that the love and acceptances there and what it's going to do is it actually becomes counterproductive. Right. You may kind of work harder because you're afraid of being punished, so to speak, but it undermines your self confidence. It creates performance anxiety, which is actually gonna make it harder for you to achieve. On the con set of such fear that you actually start like not paying attention to things properly because you don't want to go there. If you might start procrastinating, for instance, because you're so afraid of feeling and all, that actually works against your ability to achieve your goals. M hm. So I'm wondering if you have some tips, Dr Nef for how you can start to unravel this idea that criticism needs to be linked to survival, like somebody, you know, let's say somebody is listening and you know they have felt like they need to be super tough on their little one to kind to get them to be will in society. What kind of stuff might they be able to take to start unraveling some of that. So there's constructive criticism and destructive criticism, right. Constructive criticism is here's what's not working out, So well, here's where you might try to fixing. You know, it's a truism, but isn't it true failures our best teacher. Part of self compassion is protecting yourself. And so you know, I'm a white woman, right, and so I'm gonna own that. And so I'm coming from a different perspective. By the way, I think self compassion is absolutely necessary for white people to wake up. But we that's a different conversation. But just to say so, I'm talking from this perspective, so I don't know from firsthand, do you know the perspective of a woman in terms of oppression. So self compassion means protecting yourself, standing up for yourself, and you have to be very vigilant. You have to be very vigilant, you know, for microaggressions and any sort of discriminatory behavior. You have to be tough. But the toughness doesn't come from like I'm gonna beat myself up before someone else beats me up, because that's actually a good help you. You know. The toughness comes from I am worthy, I am strong, you know, and I will do my best and I'm not gonna take any discriminatory behavior. I'm not going to accept that. I being a woman in academia is you know, it's a pretty sexist place still, and so you you really, you really have to stand up for yourself and be tough as nails. Destructive criticism is is just like shaming yourself and you are good enough and you can do better. We're carrying is like you know, listen, you know I love you, accept you as you are, and yet because I care about you, I think you can do better. Here's what's not working so well, here's how we're gonna change. Here's what you need to do to protect yourself. And you need to protect yourself because you know you care about yourself. It's a difference in tone, but the tone makes a huge difference. And it makes a huge difference because one creates anxiety. One lessons anxiety because you feel supported, you know, and anxiet iety and fear and all those things, fear of failure, they actually work directly against you if you start going down the path of shame. Shame is not going to help you get through in the world. Right So for parents wanting to make sure that kids are tough, shaming them is not going to help. But you can make kids tough by learning them that you believe in them, but also that you know you need to really teach them how to stand up for themselves in a way that's effective. Is it's all about like effectiveness, what works as opposed to self worth. It's about the behavior of the actions as opposed to the value of the person. The value of the person has to be unassailable. So in your book you talk a lot about the difference between self compassion and self esteem. Can you say more about the difference, So that's also really important. One. There is some overlap in the sense that they both deal with kind of human value and worthiness. But the self compassion the human value is unconditional. It's like, I am a flawed human being who makes mistakes, who get things wrong, who I difficult things happen, but I'm gonna be kind to myself because I'm a human being intrinsically worthy of care. Right. There is unconditional self esteem as well. It's very similar, but most often self esteem is conditional. Right, So, for instance, we need to feel special and about average to have high self esteem is not okay to the average, which is a problem because that's a logical impossibility, you know. And so if you aren't worthy, if you're average, well, then you know that that's a problem because we're average by definition. It also tends to be based on social comparison, you know, like how do I compare to another person in terms of like attractiveness or popularity or success. And if we feel we don't measure up, then our self esteem takes a hit. You know, this social comparison can leads some pretty nasty behaviors. So we know, for instance, that bullying, which starts in early adolescence. One of the reasons kids bully others is to try to feel good about themselves and give themselves the self esteem boost if you successfully pick on a nerdy kid, and I'm gonna feel good about myself, and you know, other kids may look up to me, you know. And then in the adult realm, it's a contributing factor to things like prejudice. Now, obviously prejudice is bigger than self esteem. It's also about power and resources, so you know, not to say that it's not. And yet some element is that my group, my racial group, my anti group, my religious group, my gender group, whatever group it is, you know, my sexual orientation group. But I feel that my group is better than yours. It makes me feel it gives me a self esteem boost. Right, that's like some one of the nasty consequences of needing self esteem. And then also it tends to be unstable, right, So like self esteem is therefore when things are going our way, But what happens when we fail or make a huge mistake or do something we regret, you know, or don't reach your goals. Then precisely when we need a friend, the sense of support, our self esteem deserts us. Right, But I do want to go back to something you just said though, like this idea of being ondensic. But this comes up a lot in our community, in the larger therapy for black growth community, especially as it relates to Black women in the workplace. So this idea that you can be as authentic as you want, but that doesn't mean that other people don't still have these stereotypes or ideas about who you are in the workplace. So I'm wondering, like, how do you use at tension of that. This is why we really both need the kind of yen and young self compassion. So self compassion can help kind of give you inner strength to be able to not be so overwhelmed by it. You're more able to deal with things that come your way. But it's not enough. I mean it's not enough as a society. We need to start working together to change things. I certainly consider myself a feminist. You know, women need to change things, and of course we can't deal with feminism without also dealing with racism. They're all interlinked, they're all intersect Hopefully, at this time in history, we're finally finally seeing that things have to change. And I do think that as part of caring for ourselves, we have to care for, you know, other people. We need to make things equal for everyone. You know, whether this is done through voting or just you know, changing how things are a company, we know those we need to take action. So self compassion absolutely helps. It will helps you be strong, It'll it'll motivate you, it'll give you the energy to be authentic as you try to make the change. But it's not enough. It can't be done at the individual level. We absolutely have to change the social systems. I can get in this point. I mean, so I'm not a white male, but I'm a white woman, and I know, just kind of from my own personal journey that self compassion has been really key for me to be able to recognize my privilege because what happens is as I don't need to tell you this, but it's like, I'm not a racist, I'm not a bad person. And then so because you don't want to go there, you tend to kind of look away and kind of disclaim any of that, Well, that's it's not me who's doing that. So I think self compassion and by the way, the Center for Bindful Self Compassion, we're really trying to bring this out as much as we can. In other words, how self compassion can help people who have more privilege recognize their privilege. Well, it's not that I'm a racist. It's just that I've unconsciously incorporated these, you know, stereotypes from watching TV and just for being in society. It's like when you when you have compassion and you support yourself and you don't shame yourself, then you're more able to say, okay, yeah, I see that. Okay. Then then it kind of gives you the ability to see more clearly, to be more awake in terms of your role and things. And then I think the more and more we can do that for all people. If more were able to like use self compassion to take responsibility and to see their own privilege and to see their own role in the unequal power structure, hopefully that will be a key to change. Again, that's still this replace action you see, still need action. You need both personally. I mean, I don't know for sure, but I think one of the barriers the people taking action is the sense. So it's not me. The shame is kind of like made people not willing to take action. So I'm hoping that self compassion plays some role in kind of releasing some of the blocks the people taking action. We'll see. I just hope things start to change. I think there's a different sense in the air. And I really do think at least I hope it's my wish that self compassion place some role to releasing the blocks for people who have powered seeing their home role in the system. But you know, we'll see. I'll certainly do everything I can that makes sense to that. Yeah, that ling for you, Dr Roy. Yeah, I mean I think that there's a part of it that makes sense as a practitioner, but as a human it also sounds like a very hand holding, very soft approach when it feels like black people don't have that opportunity, right like we don't have the privilege of, um, you know, kind of passively examining our stuff when it feels like we're the ones being perpetrated against. Yeah, and I know, and I've had that reaction. I think it's it's definitely worth a conversation. It's like I think it has to accompany action. It's a bit that I feel I can contribute, like that, do you wake up? But it's definitely not enough. It's almost like if I talk about it, I've had people like, you know, because I've written some blogs about this, and I've had people say, well, that's very nice for you, but it's not enough. It's like, yeah, I know it's not enough, but it's first step. So maybe it's the type of thing where maybe I just maybe as something that should be done internally and not externally, because I know from your point of view, was like, well that's a fine and well but you know that was like that should have been done like so long ago, you know you know what I mean? Right, Um, it's maybe that's something that needs to be done just within my community, among ourselves because you shouldn't have to care about that, right right, And I mean again, it makes sense right because we know that shame. We've already talked about that. We know that shame is not a helpful motivator. It's not a helpful motivator. Yeah, and but yeah, so so actually needs to be taken for sure, and liking for that, you know, I'm just you know, willing to do whatever I can. Part of the problem is is kind of knowing exactly what to do and how to do it other than voting and things like that. It's it's a structural, entrenched problem. Hopefully my small contribution as we do the hard work of change, I think the more we're able to do it in a way that supportive only and supportive, I mean we need support. Everyone needs support. And actually, Dr Jo, you said that black people don't have the privilege of doing that. Do you feel you don't have the privilege of being supportive to yourself as you make change? I mean, like just kind of like emotionally, like just got your own back. You know, you're gonna be strong, You're gonna be there for yourself. Oh no, I don't think I was talking about it generally. I was just talking about it more in terms of like the structural racism peace Right, then it feels like we don't we don't like really have the luxury of like taking time because this has been happening for hundreds of years at this point. Yeah, but I'm just curious, do you think that a practice of self compassion can help at all as the work is being done, or is it just like not kneeling enough. It is it worth doing at all? Or is it not even worth the time? You mean for the white community. For the black community, Oh, I'm curious, and I'm really asking open minded. I think it has a role to play and helping. I definitely do think it is because I think what happens a lot of times, especially if like we go back to the example of like black women in the workplace, a lot of times of course we can't get the answers to like why people are reacting to us in certain ways, and so we internalize it, right, Whereas I think self compassion can help us to really recognize, like this is really not about me. Yeah, and especially this called fear self compassion, So it's not just about like the softness. Sometimes it's like that is not okay, that is not you. I'm not gonna know, I'm not gonna take that. I'm starting to cheach these fear self compassion workshops, which are more about empowerment. You know, how do we support ourselves in empowerment. It's a little different for black women because of the history, but for white woman there's just been the kind of socialization. Is you know, you aren't allowed to get angry. People won't like you if you're angry. And that's why for a lot of women it's very hard for them to stand up for themselves because they've been socialize it. Well, you aren't pretty when you're you know, all this bullshit if I can say that yet, you know, And so I do think this idea of fearselfs sometimes I like to call it mama bear self compassion, like that power of a you know, mama bear, Like have you threatened her cubs head off? Well, I think women need if you threaten us, you know, we're gonna call them that fierce powerful energy that we have inside of ourselves. We actually haven't been been able to access said maybe as fully as as we might because of gender socialization. So you know, we we need to kind of, I think, really confront all the factors of socialization that keeps us from being our kind of true, authentic full cells and so that and I think if we were able to do that out of being we speaking a much better place. Yeah, And I mean I would love to hear more about this fear self compassion because as I hear you talk about it, right, So we we know that black women are already deemed to be angry, right, Like, the expectation is that at any moment, a black woman is going to kind of snap on you, so to speak. And so when I hear you talk about like bringing this fear self compassion to like the work place, my thinking is that this is not gonna work for black women because we're already so worried about being seen as angry. I think maybe it has to be more of an internal job. Might has to be more of an internal job, like, for instance, really owning your anger and like really honoring the place for it. And yet yeah, you're you're gonna be facing different issues in terms of other people's perceptions. So there's the compassion, which is how am I relating to myself, which is the self compassion, and then there's the wisdom of how do I act most effectively in the world. And they aren't exactly the same, right, So how you relate to yourself may be slightly different than what you present at work in terms of what's going to be more effective. So it's all very complicated and like the one easy answer. But so what I do know is that self compassion certainly has a role to play in terms of how we relate to ourselves in the midst of all this complicated stuff that we're happy to do with you know that we need to do it. Yeah, that makes sense. So I mean, I think that this feels like a natural tie into something else I wanted to talk to you about. So there is also a portion of your book where you talk about generational trauma, and you know, the the idea that pain and dysfunction get passed down from generation to generation. Can you talk more about the cycle and maybe some approaches to stepping out of that system. I really do think that obviously we carry not just what we have in in our lifetimes, we do carry generational trauma. I had a recent experience with someone who was very close to me that turned out to be a sex preditor, and it really really shook me. And if someone who was very very close to me that was preyed upon, and it was interesting as I was going through it, as I was feeling my anger arise, I realized that it wasn't just like me, or wasn't just this person was very close to but it was like generations that you know, when you tap into some of this pain it's just like you know, it's ancient, it's connected with none of those We aren't isolated individuals, were situated in the culture and a history in society, and the pain we may experience is connected to a whole history of pain. And so again, and you're just coming back to the self compassion. The first thing is just to be able to knowledge that pain right, just to own it, just to say wow, you know, just to really turn toward it and hold the pain. If one thing self compassion is good for, it is the ability to be able to hold pain without being overwhelmed. Because what happens is when we get in contact with pain, every single cell in our body just wants to be out of there. Right, this is just way too much. And sometimes we do have to be out of there because it is too much. But the more we can hold our pain and kind of the sense of love and care and support and you know, I'm here for myself and it's okay, and I'm not going to abandon myself. I'm present, I care, you know, kind of this warmth with this love and actually allows us to hold the pain. It's not going to make the pain go away. Self compassion is not a magic bullet. It doesn't make pain go away. There's actually nothing that makes pain go away. But it helps us hold the pain, and it helps us survive the pain, helps us get through the pain. And in it's the process of trying to avoid the pain and sidestep it and to pretend it's not there that gets us into trouble, or you know, we get into behaviors that aren't helpful as a way to avoid the pain, like you know, alcohol or drugs, or or you know, sex or does anything overeating does anything that kind of helps us avoid the pain. So what self compassion can do is it helps us open to the pain. It also helps us not identify with it so much. It's almost hard to put into words. But in your sense of self gets locked into the pain, then like your sense of self becomes quickly overwhelmed. But if you like expand the sense of self, so you're kind of a consciousness who's experiencing the pain, you're also experiencing the love and the care along with the pain, and your sense of self isn't so like, this isn't so narrow, it's like broader. I am, I am a human being, you know, I'm part of this larger unfolding experience, and if you're a spiritual person you can add in some spiritual way its parts to that. Then it's not so overwhelming. The end is self compassion is the most important element for the healing. This kind of accepts this, this is how it is. You know, I need to accept that this is how it is because this is reality. Can I be kind to myself, warm with myself, caring for myself? I'm so sorry, this hurts so bad, darling, you know I'm here for you. Now actually allows us to be with it and to heal from the pain. And then the young self compassion is about the what are the concrete action steps I can take and make things better. It has to always be in the future moments, because right now this is how it is. How can I make things better so that as a future unfolds and unfolds in a healthier way. Does that make sense? Yes? Absolutely? Yeah. I like that you keep coming back to the un and the young to give us examples of what that looks like. Yeah, because it really has to be both. If it's just opening the pain without changing things, that does not very much help. But if it's just all about change, like, we gotta take action, we gotta do this. There's no sense of first of all, opening to what is then that's not healthy either. We need the acceptance and the love at the same time that we're taking concrete steps towards change. Yeah, without the others incomplete and is unbalanced and it's actually ultimately not gonna be very effective. So it definitely feels like Kristen, your concepts related to self compassion can be super helpful right now, you know, I mean in my community, lots of people are experiencing increasing stress. You know, we already know what's been going on for the past couple of months, but we also know that schools are reopening, and so there has been lots of conversation in the community just around how in the world are we gonna do all of this? And so I'm curious to hear if you have any thoughts about like what self compassion looks like as we are, you know, continuing to try to work from home, continuing to try to educate from home, Like what concep tips might you have? The first really important thing is just to pause and take a moment to kind of give yourself compassion for the difficulty. So if you notice, if you only focus what am I gonna do? And you know, how am I going to deal with this? How am I going to homeschool my kids? Or you know, how am I going to get through this? Then you actually aren't giving yourself the emotional support you need. So just taking a moment to pause and just to say this is really hard, this is really this, this sucks, this hurts. I'm feeling prayed and feeling lonely, I'm feeling frustrated, whatever it is, and then give yourself some emotional and this kind of the end, give yourself some emotional support, some warmth, kind of validating your pain, acknowledging it right. So that's kind of more of the end self than passion. And then as you take action, you'll be able to take wiser action, make wiser decisions from this kind of more balanced, emotionally supported place. And so in terms of actual steps, you know, are you sending your kids to school or not? Are you gonna be able to deal with it? I think again that's just the wisdom elopment in terms of each situation is going to be different. But sometimes parents think that it's kind of selfish to be focusing on giving yourself compassion. Again, your your kids are really stressed or worried. But what we know about the way empathy works, we're designed by evolution to constantly be feeding off of those emotions. So when other people around us, especially our kids, are stressed or frustrated, we feel that inside our own body, we feel stressed and frustrated. They also pick up on our interurnal lines at we have mirror neurons or at least part parts of the brain. This whole function it is is to feel the emotions of others, and that's partly the way that humans communicate, especially the first years of life. So the more you can cultivate a warm, carrying, kind of peaceful state of mind internally, or even if you can't be peaceful, but at least be kind to yourself because it's so chaotic inside, so you help other people by helping yourself. And so, in other words, we aren't we aren't separate. This idea that we're totally separate individuals who don't influence each other, it's a complete fallacy, right, it's not the way humans were evolved. Were evolved to influence each other through our emotions. Who are interactions who are social interactions, and so the way you treat yourself, you know, affects others, just as the way you treat others affects yourself. We're all part of the same human family, the same human system. And so if we leave ourselves out of that system and we just focus on helping others or just focus on problem solving and forget to give ourselves the emotional support we need, and that's going to be a hole in the system, right. I don't know if you want a more concrete advice, I can't really give concrete advice. Well, we know everybody's situation is different. But I do think the idea of like the long pause and like really talking to yourself about hard, how hard this is, this is really hard, and just that and just remember when you do that, you aren't saying this pity. You aren't saying that you have it harder than anyone else's all of us. You aren't alone, and yet you know you're the only one who's inside your own head. Don't forget to take a pa us and too emotionally support yourself. And it's not just self care. It's not like just taking bubble bass or going for walks and doing exercise. Self care is great, you know, but the way you relate to every single moment, especially in every single moment, is suffering. It's really a mindset. So you need to adopt the self compassionate mindset. So as the frustration comes up, as your kids are screaming, as you're trying to do your call right, as you relate to that moment of frustration or overwhelm or anger or whatever it is, if you can do that with a sense of kindness, warmth and support. And again it may be tough love, you know, maybe like come on, got hold it together right, Maybe kind of tough but firm but warm and caring. That the more you'll be able to cope and get through. I do know that much. And the specific steps your opinion is because MND have not that. I like that that that is very concrete, though you didn't describe it that way. So we do have a question from one of our Your Coach Collective book club members. So the question is in the Sex and Love chapter of your book, you talked about assessing when your old patterns are asserting themselves and in the moment, taking the time to give yourself self compassion and then after doing so, fully accept your overreaction. What do you recommend when you come out of your self assessment and realize that it isn't an overreaction or an old pattern asserting itself. What should you do if they've actually done something wrong, like light or something similar to that. So the book you read it was more focused on you in self compassion, I hadn't really developed as much. My new book is called Fear Self Compassion. Oh is it out already? No? No, I'm okay. At that point, I wasn't as much aware of kind of the need to protect ourselves. So it sounds like when the person really has lied, then that's the time you need fear self compassion. That's the time you need to stand up and say that's not okay, that's not acceptable. Here's the thing. Sometimes, for instance, we need to leave a relationship if it's really not good for us. And it can be hard to leave a relationship if we feel that we aren't good enough, if we feel we need the other person to complete us, you know, if we feel we need the other person to be happy, and so that's why, you know, the more we're able to kind of fulfill our own needs, especially our needs for a sense of love and worthiness. The more we're also able to leave a relationship where we're being mistreated, you know, or at least stand up or at least take risks, So the two really are connected. So sometimes, for instance, it's not just you, it is the other person. I'm currently not in a relationship because I had to leave shortly after the book came out. Because I won't go into detail, but I really needed to leave that relationship sadly. And then I was in another relationship and I needed to leave that relationship. And now I'm alone, and you know, I would like to have a partner, but my practice really is about how do I'd be fully happy about being with someone, How do I not feel incomplete? How can I really learn to be happy and fulfilled without needing a man? I must say it, you know, it's it's really amazing because my whole life I always kind of imagine, well, of course, you have a man, and you know, it's kind of that's I like having to man and all this stuff. I'm so open to one. It's not really you know, if one comes my way, kind of good luck and COVID define a new man. But it's like I'm really seeing how much of myself I gave away, was willing to give away, like subtly, not even seeing the small ways we kind of give ourselves away. We kind of compromise, so that sometimes compromise is good about you know something, But since we shouldn't have to compromise who we really are in a relationship. If for for me at this point anyway, it's not worth it. I'm not going to do it again if if I can't be my full true self, it'd rather be alone. You know, I'm kind of at that point in my life. So if someone's lying to you, you need to confront them again. Wisdom has to play itself out. But sometimes you just need to say I'm sorry. It's not good enough. You know, it's not good enough for me. I need to protect myself. I need to leave you. And that's that happens. Yeah, so you we'll have to be on the lookout for a book too to see you. Yeah. Yeah, I write a lot about it. Yeah, so I I go into a lot of my dirty laundries in book one, and there's a lot of dirty laundry and Brooke to you ever't want to come off. Is it's just no at all self help gurgle, who's got it all figured out? Right? Right? We're all I have some passionate but right a work in progress, like we all. Yeah. So something that we loved is that there's so many exercises in your book, Dr and NEF. I wonder if you can kind of give us a closing in terms of what exercise you feel like it's best for people who really want to get started working on self compassion. There's a practice of probably the most portable practice that you know is in the Mindful Self Compassion program, which which we develop is the self Compassion Break. In the book, I called it the self Compassion mantra. We've renamed it the self Compassion break to kind of give a sense of I when you need a break and you just like you take like a three minute time out to do this. It's kind of a kind of the reset button on your computer, you know, you just kind of press this button and reset. And I've got a recording to this on my website. If you just google self compassion, you'll find me. So basically what you do is you just call in the three components of self compassion intentionally. So the first one is mindfulness. You just are mindful of the fact that this is really hard, that you're in pain. And this could be, you know, something that's happening, maybe because you're lonely, because of social distancing, maybe because you're angry at yourself. You know, whatever the pain is, you're just mindful of that, you validate it. This really hurts. When you get in touch with that, you open to the pain, and then you remember common humanity. You remember that you aren't alone. There's something odd or unusual about having these things happen. This is part of the human experience. It's not just me, that sense that it's out. It's just to me, like as insult to injury. It's not just you. This is what it means to be human. So you know, okay, so this is normal, this is part of life. And then the third one is bringing in the kindness. And so you can bring in the kindness and I'm touched can be a really important way to can make kindness. You can put your hand on your heart, or your face or your stomach, just some some sort of warm touch. Do remind yourself physically of your own presence. And then in terms of language. You might just think, well, what would I say to a really good friend they cared about in this situation? You know what types of supportive language when I use with a good friend, And then you try that language out with yourself, right, and so just bringing in the mindfulness, the common humanity and the kindness and you can do it very very quickly, really shift your ability to relate to what's happening with more strength and also um, you know, more peace and it makes easier to bear. And then sometimes the mindfulness is this is not okay. The common humanity is I'm in power because it's not just me, it's my brothers and sisters, whoever you know who's also in this situation. And the kindness maybe like fierce protective kindness, like I'm gonna do what I can, but I need you to stand up for myself and to say no more So it's not always just like a soft acceptance. Sometimes it's like a fierce um, fierce waves and taking relating to the situation. So it can be either spending on what you need in the moment. So what is the best way for us to stay connected to you and your work? Dr Netwhere can people find probably just my website, so self compassion dot org can spell it anyway you'll find me. You can take your own self compassion test. I've got videos, I've got guided meditations, I've got tons of research if you're in the research, have a lot of resources, and there's also links to the center from Mindful Self Compassion if you want to actually get training. We're doing all our training online now, so it's much more accessible than it used to be. And so we just added to our board a woman named Sydney Spears. She's a professor from Kentucky University, and she is offering affinity practice groups. So that may be of interest so for people of color, for instance, or people you know with it with non heterosexual orientation or transgender. So it's in other words, that people can practice self compassion with members of their own community and so they can discuss to talk about how self compassion is relating to you know, this form of suffering, this relevant and particular community. And so we are just starting that up and we're so excited about it. Typically, if you go to one of our regular workshops, it's mainly white, middle aged one with graduate degrees. That's or demographic are really working hard to change that. But and so one of the ways if you want to look, you know, practice the people who are more like yourself, um is Sydney Spears is leading these affinity groups. So that is a resource at the Center for Mindful Self Compassion and so you can link to that from my website. So we're really excited to see where that goes nice and we will of course include all of that in the show notes. We really appreciate your time and expertise today, Dr Nef, thank you so much. You're welcome. Dr Joy, thank you. I'm so glad Dr Nef was able to join us this week. Be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot Com slash Session one sixty seven to connect with her and to check out the resources on her website. Don't forget to share your takeaways with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in session, and please text two sisters in your circle right now and encourage them to check out the episode as well. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot Com slash directory And if you want to continue digging into this topic and connect with some other sisters in your area. Come on over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take a deeper dive into the topics from the podcast and just about everything else. You can join us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y c C. Don't forget that. If you're looking for a way to end summer on a high note, Cricket Wireless has got just the thing. Get four lines of unlimited data for a hundred dollars a month. Cricket Core is required on four lines. Data speed limited to three megabits for a second. Cricket may slow data speeds when the network is busy. Additional fees, usage and restrictions may apply. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care, but brest Wood Press s Wood

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The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
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