Congratulations, you’ve been accepted to the inaugural class of Therapy for Black Girls University (TBG U).
Whether you’re packing for a new year on campus, thinking through your gap year, enrolling in a community college, or grabbing your stoles for graduation, embarking on the next chapter of your life is often exciting, but also a little scary. There can be a lot of unknowns that can leave you feeling uncertain and having the right support can help you to feel confident and grounded. TBG U was designed to help you strengthen your voice, sharpen your knowledge, and affirm who you are and who you’ll become. Our goal is to create relevant and accessible resources, content, and experiences to help you thrive at this stage of your life and beyond.
This episode of TBG U focuses on choosing the right college for you. Some factors to consider in this decision include finances, staying local vs. moving away, HBCU vs. PWI, and many more. To help us think through some of these choices, we are joined by special guests Caitlyn Kumi, an Associate Product Marketing Manager at Google and the Founder of Miss EmpowHer and Phylicia Currence, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and founder of College by Her.
Where to Find Our Guests
Caitlyn Kumi
Phylicia Currence
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Our Production Team
Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard
Producers: Fredia Lucas, Ellice Ellis & Cindy Okereke
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Congratulations, you've been accepted to the inaugural class of Therapy for Black Girls University TBGU for short. Whether you're packing for a new year on campus, thinking through your gap year, enrolling in a community college, or grabbing your stalls for graduation, Embarking on the next chapter of your life is often exciting but also a little scary. There can be a lot of unknowns that can leave you feeling uncertain, and having the right support can help you to feel confident and grounded. TBGU was designed to help you strengthen your voice, sharpen your knowledge, and affirm who you are and who you'll become. Our goal is to create relevant and accessible resources, content and experiences to help you thrive at this stage of your life and beyond. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag TBG University and us over on TikTok or Instagram. At CBG University. Our seminar is now in session. Laptops or phones out you'll want to take notes. For many universities and colleges across the country. May first is the official and final day for expecting college freshmen to decide which university they'll attend in the fall. College decision day is a momentous occasion in the lives of prospective students and their families, and like other major life moments, this decision requires considering numerous factors at once, considerations like the financial cost of attending a university, figuring out if you're going to stay local or study far away from home, or for some students, deciding if you'll attend an HBCU RPWI. For the high school seniors listening, I want to stress how important it is for you to make the decision for you and nobody else. The best way to make an informed decision is to be honest with yourself about what you want, conduct your own independent research, and find voices that reflect the college experience you're hoping to achieve to assist you in your decision making process. Today, we're in conversation with two special guests. In part one of our episode, we'll hear from recent grad Caitlin Komi, an associate product marketing manager at Google and the founder of mis Empower, a women's empowerment and professional development brand she founded during her undergraduate career. In Part two, we'll hear from Felicia Currents, a licensed clinical social worker and founder of College by Her, a podcast dedicated to mentally and emotionally supporting college girls as they matriculate through university. Here's my conversation with Caitlin. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Caitlin, thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here. I'm a huge fan of the podcast.
Thank you, thank you so much for joining us. So as we get started, can you tell us a little bit about where you chose to go to school and how you made the decision.
Yeah. So I went to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. So it's a top public school down in North Carolina. We're known for having a great basketball team, great for academics. And when I was going through the process, I had a few factors in mine cost, quality of education. I also thought about the diversity component and what that experience is going to be like. I identify as a black woman, so I really wanted to go to a university that was diverse enough where I wouldn't feel like I was the only one, and funny enough when I was a kid, I know, people don't read magazine as much anymore. Now everything's online, but my mom used to be a huge subscriber of Essence and Essence I think had this online publication at the time. I think they still have it. It's probably from like twenty ten or twenty fifteen, quite outdated, but I think it's still relevant. And it was the top fifty schools for Black women or Black students. You can go on to Google and search it, and it had all the top schools from HBCUs to public schools to private schools that had the best outcomes for Black students, so whether it be graduation rates, how hw their salaries were after graduation, the diversity of the school. So literally, as I was making that list, I just looked at it. I was like, Okay, what are the top public schools or what are the top private schools? Do I want to attend an HBCU? And then I also looked at affordability, like what is that financial aid looking like? Because I personally didn't have a dream school when I applied, because I didn't want to fall in love with something. And my dad or my mom tell me, like, you know what, we don't have the money. So I just said I'm looking at this list. Anywhere on this list, I would be really happy to apply. Oh so there were a few, like other schools that either had good financial aid programs, they had merit based scholarship, or like need based scholarship, so I definitely looked at those things as well.
So where did you grow up, Caitlin, Is unhvel Hill in state for you? Or were you coming from somewhere else?
No, I'm an out of state student. I grew up in Montgomery County, Maryland. D is actually pretty hard to get in out of state, just because the majority of the students come from North Carolina, so it's actually pretty hard getting in out of state. It's a school that I really wanted to attend, so I just applied. So I would also encourage people like, don't listen to that guidance counselor like just apply, because sometimes those guidance counselors will discourage you. I grew up in Montgomery County, Maryland. It's one of the most diverse counties in Maryland, and actually, like the United States, there, I was exposed to so many people of different socio economic backgrounds, races, which was just really beneficial when I transitioned to university, and then also just as a postscrad I definitely had a really good education system, which I'm really grateful for. And even though I was definitely a product of that grouping tracking system where they might take a small group of kids and maybe some of my academic programs weren't as diverse, I'm glad that I was an environment with that broader diversity. I'm also a kid who grew up in the Obama era, so it was really nice to have that representation as well. But I had a really great experience growing up in Maryland.
Thank you for that. So I love that you saw this list in essence. I think that's super cool. So tell me a little bit about your process then once you found this list, so it sounds like you kind of started, you know, doing some research from these places. Did you visit the campus of several of the institutions or how did you kind of narrow down that list.
Yeah, I actually had the privilege of starting a little bit early. So my parents work for the government, and my parents had i think like hybrid work schedule, and then they also have paid time off, and I think a lot of people don't realize that there's privilege in having parents who are able to take vacation days and paid time off. So I think there's power in having community. And my mom was like, you know what, Caitlin, like, we don't have a babysitter for you. Plus you're grown, like you're coming to this conference so as can. My cousins were going to those scholarship conferences or they were going to their university tours. My mom was bringing me along and at the time, I wasn't really someone who was like thinking about going to a top school or thinking about universities or those impacts. Like my only jobs was to get a's and v's and classes more so those a's, But my parents never really put a lot of pressure on me. Then, sitting in these like information sessions, I'm looking at the SAT score, I'm looking at the grades, and I'm like, you know what, we need to step it up, Like we need to make sure we're taking these honors classes, we need to make sure we're taking these EP classes. I need to make sure that my extra curriculars are looking good. And I'm really glad that my cousins had those opportunities. And my mom forced me essentially to go. I don't really have a choice because I couldn't stay home by myself, so I was going with her that I went to those events and I had that early exposure. So again I would encourage any parents listening to the podcast if you do have that flexibility in your schedule, like especially starting as early as like freshman year of college, even like middle school, it's never too early to get that exposure. And if you don't have the time, if you're comfortable with social media, there are plenty of people to follow on like TikTok and LinkedIn and different platforms where people share their journey and you can understand what they went through. Applying through the process, find your own like digital mentors, you don't have to do it alone.
So let's talk a little bit about the transition to college. And you didn't graduate that long ago, so you probably still remember some of this. What was that transition like for you? And how did you prepare yourself to transition from high school to being on a college campus.
You know what, there was no preparation. I think the best way to go into college is with no expectations. I think sometimes when you create the expectations, like it's going to be like the movies. Guess what it's not like the movies. I will say though I did not grow up super sheltered. But college, depending on where you go to university, whether it's a private school a public school, if your child in particular grew up sheltered, or if you know that you grew up sheltered, college will expose you to so many things. So I would say, really get comfortable knowing yourself. What are your values. If you're religious and you want to remain religious, I encourage you to make sure that you find like church early on, like shop around with different churches. If you know that faith is something that is really important to you. You might have never gone to a party in high school, and now there's parties every weekend. How are you going to balance that with your courseload? I had a friend in college. She would go out Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and she would still get a's on all of her exams because she'd either wake up early do different things. That was not me, Like I do not wake up early. That's never been my thing. I would plan that. Okay, I know I'm going to go to this party. I know I want to go to church. So I need to like really plan my schedule Friday night, like I'm not going out. I'm doing my homework Saturday. I'm waking up early and then I'm gonna get my work done. I'm gonna go to a party on Saturday, and I'm gonna go to church in the morning. Like I'm gonna find a way to really plan my schedule. So just making sure that you really know yourself and you're grounded. Oh. So, I would say for the woman and moms who might be listening to this podcast coaching their young daughters, really talking to them about mental health, talking to them about like relationships and like intimacy, because especially if you're someone who never really dabbled in those things, college is just the wild wild West. You'll be exposed to so many different things. So I wish this is the book. Then I was dating and navigating college campuses that I read this book called Attached. I recommend it to a women who are postcard even as early as like end of high school, to read this book really learn your attachment styles to avoid some of the challenges you might face in relationships and navigating dating. I'd also say if you're early in college. Do not treat dating like you're finding your husband. Just treated as an experience, just to meet and connect with different people. Really know what you're comfortable with, know what you're not comfortable with, and avoid putting pressure on yourself when it comes to making friends. Again, don't put too much pressure to find your best friend that first week, that first month, that first year, even Just go to as many events as you can. Be your most authentic self. But there's not really a crash code. You can follow people like me on TikTok who share like their best practices stuff like that, but honestly, the best way to learn is through experience and really trusting yourself, and also call your parents looking bag.
Is there anything you wish you would have known before that first year?
I wish I would have known that not everyone grew up the same way as you, so don't hold those same expectations. So the way in which you might handle situations, somebody might not handle it that way, and you need to be okay with that. Oh so sometimes it's okay to agree to disagree. Some people won't always be committed to understanding you, and you have to learn to be okay with that. I would also say, if you really struggle with like people pleasing in boundaries and you're not aware of that, I would say, definitely learn those skills. And then the last thing that I didn't do in high school that I started doing in college that I wish more people knew about and I wish I knew was okay and it wasn't a weird thing, was starting therapy. Therapy really helped me become more self aware. It allowed me to learn how to communicate those things I struggled with in the past, like boundaries and people pleasing. If I knew the proper coping mechanisms, if I knew the signs, I definitely could have avoided a lot more tricky situations. Obviously I've learned from them. It gives me tools and resources and experiences to share on my social media pages and through my Women Empowerment BREM. It's empower to help young women now. So I have no regrets, but I definitely wish I would have started therapy earlier. So if you have insurance, the copays aren't too bad. If you don't have insurance, colleges usually provide short term therapy resources, so many great resources, whether it be digital or getting that in person experience, but clothed mouths don't get fed. So make sure you ask your university. They probably do have some free resources or support for you, so definitely take advantage of that.
Got it. Thank you for that. So how did you take care of yourself during the application process? I feel like the college application process has changed so much since I apply for college, Like it feels so much more competitive and now social media, so it feels like there's this piece of like having to kind of share some of that with social media. So how did you support yourself through the application process and did that translate into your first year or your you know, a couple of years in college.
I'm someone if I wait till last minute, I get super anxious, I get stressed, like I'm not the best person to be around, especially for my parents. So I got started early, like in August, and I kind of created like a spreadsheet for myself managing like the different deadlines. So I believe it's around August or like around like early September where they open that common app essay which a lot of universities use and honestly cheat code. A lot of the questions are the same, so you could probably leave and start in like June July and get started a little bit early using those questions from the year prior, just to kind of build out that foundation for yourself. And then for those I think they're like shorter term essays, they're like usually university folk. It might be like two hundred and fifty words. Those ones, you can kind of wait a little bit closer to the deadline. But I would say, create like a project management system, an organization system for yourself so you don't get overwhelmed. Oh so, really think about where you want to go to school. And I have a rule for myself, especially when it comes to scholarships. If you don't think you want to attend that university in the middle of nowhere where you will be the only one. If you know what I'm saying, don't apply. Because when you get that full right scholarship, it's going to be really hard to say no. But if you never applied, it won't be an option. I have cousins who have gone through that experience and it's really ruined their college experience. You guys, it's been great that they had a full right scholarship, but that mental health couse just wasn't worth it. So if you're a student, really think about those things. If you don't care, you're like, you know what, I'm going to go on a vacation and see my friends every month, and school is just where I go to school by all means, do it. But really think about those things as you're planning, just so it's a better process for you. And writing applications is I'm not gonna lie. It's not fun. So you want to make sure these are schools you actually want to go to. I remember when my sister was applying. That was very interesting because we're very different. She only applied to a handful of schools she knew the school she'd actually want to attend. She was really interested in going to the top public schools, so she chose not to apply to any ivys or like private schools or anything like that. Or if you really want to go to an IVY and that's priority, apply to those, but make sure you also have like your safety schools as well. I don't my college application strategy. I wouldn't really recommend it to anyone. I didn't really have a true safety school. But I was just like, hey, like, I'm going to apply to my target stafe school. If I don't get in, I have a few universities that I know that I can apply a little bit later where they'll give me a good financial aid package or a scholarship. So I had like my backups and things like that. But again with this strategy, it's very personal. But I would say if you're someone who gets overwhelmed, really easily start early and then make sure that the schools you're applying to are schools that you actually want to attend to avoid that progress nation.
So it sounds like, kayln, you're super organized. Are you talking about like spreadsheets and all that kind of things. Did you have support with this process? And what suggestions would you give to other people? So starting early it sounds like it's a good one. What other support did you have and what would you suggest for other people?
Yeah, I come from a family where education is just really important. My parents didn't really go to a top like school or anything like that, and I think they became a little bit more interested in college once my cousins started getting scholarships and supporting them. So I was fortunate to come from a family with that support and having that like early exposure, like I said, going with my mom. So those like college and universities, but honestly, like my parents can't write my essays for me.
That was on me.
But it was just nice to like have that support that they were excited. Like I remember when I would write my applications or I was staying for my AP exams, my mom would bring me tea. She didn't know what to do. That was just her way of like encouraging or supporting me. So I would encourage the parents listening to the podcast to really know your child and support them in a way that's most effective. Know that each child is different, and to be able to support them and manage them according to their style.
So you mentioned earlier on that diversity was really important to you, Like you didn't want to go somewhere you were going to be the only one, but you did end up choosing a PWI, even though there may be more students of color there. Can you talk a little bit about that decision making and any suggestions you'd give to other people who are considering that.
Yes, I would say it's a very personal decision. I was actually a part of the UNCF Scholarship program, which actually had a lot of HBCU students as well as students from PWI, So I almost felt like I got my own little HBC experience through that scholarship program. But for me, I went to a top public school that was really diverse. UNC was a school that I knew had a really strong black alumni network, and honestly, alumni network was something that was really really important to me when selecting my university and then overall college experience, and I personally wanted that racial and ethnic diversity like outside of the black community as well. But I also knew that I didn't want to be the only one in the classroom. So with UNC and choosing that university, I knew that I was going to get that diversity and black experience if I really wanted to have that support system and community of like black women in particular that I knew I needed and was instrumental and me being successful at UNC and postgrad. I knew I would get that from that experience. But I would say for everyone when you are, you know, attending those early admin days or if you're lucky enough to connect with someone on Instagram, really ask those questions about what their experience is like as a black person. Or as a black woman on their campus. Because for everyone, whether you go to a public school, whether you go to a private school, whether you go to HBCU, it's different. So really do the research, know yourself, know what you want to get out of your experience. So again it's just really a personal decision.
So you mentioned that you used a lot of resources to find scholarships before where are you applying? But also while you were there, can you say a little bit more about those resources.
My high school, we had a career center, so I would go to them. They would post different like local scholarships that were for my county. So I think I got a few scholarships through my county. And then I didn't honestly do the best job. When I was in high school, I was given bad information from a family member that was like, they'll never get those scholarships. Don't apply, it's a waste of time to focus on your mission. I wish I didn't listen to them, but I did apply and get a few of those, like smaller scholarships. But when I was actually at university, that's when I decided to start applying for scholarships. It's a bit harder to get them when you're at university, but it's still possible. UNCF is a really great resource that I used as a black woman, and I had two scholarships from there. I think one was called the UNCF scholars It was around like entrepreneurship. I don't know if they still had that scholarship program. And then I also did the Walt Disney Scholarship. I forget what it's called as well. And then my actual university had a lot of scholarship programs through University Journalism School, and then you could do like grants for like study abroad and different things like that. So I would say, first, if you're in high school, focus on those like general like smaller scholarships that you can get, and then when you're in a university, see what university resources are out there and just really take advantage of that.
So while you were at UNC during your junior year, you also started missing power. So can you tell us about that organization and what inspired you to start it.
Yes, this empowers my Woman Empire and brand. It's really focused on helping young women feel more confident and empowered through personal and professional development. So many women say no to opportunities because of fear of failure, and I just really wanted to create a community that helped young women overcome those challenges and almost be that big sister as they're navigating young adulthood. It's a lot going from your parents' house and being in high school to being thrown into college and then being thrown into the real world. So I wanted to be that big sister with my brand to support young women through that pivotal phase in their life. I really focus on sharing resources where young women are, so we're on social media platforms like LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram, and then I also share resources through my blog and then also having virtual events. One of the events we had a few months ago was mis Empowered Talks Women in Tech, just because a lot of young women were interested in pivoting into the tech industry, learning what the day to day was like, and it was really important for me to show young women that look like them that it's possible for them to hear about their experiences, and it's something I do a lot on my social media platforms just because, like I think it's really important for young women to be able to see someone that looks like them and to be able to see that you know what it is possible to go from university, get into these big companies and really understand the how because so many people show that like highlight reel of wow, like I work at this company, or a while like I've been featured here, but people are wanting to know how. So I really focus on using my brand, whether it's my personal brand, through my social media potform or through mis Empower, to really uncover that how.
Perfect And can you say a little bit more about how spaces like mis Empower really can help support young black women in college.
I think they can really be a great support system and I like to call them a cheat code. So I have this saying that everyone should really try to find a digital mentor if you can't find a mentor in real life. And I think that's one of the biggest advantages of social media platforms today, whether it be on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, you can really find a digital mentor if you look for one. So, for example, career is something that people really struggle with. On my personal TikTok, I talk a lot about how I was able to get my first internship, some of the challenges I have. I really share that on TikTok and LinkedIn a lot because I struggled and I don't want everyone to have the same struggles applying to one hundred internships and like only hearing back from one. I don't want people experiencing that, So I like to share my best practices so you can follow people like me that share those resources, as well as linking and getting on like email newsletters, whether that be at your university. That's how I found out about a lot of things. So like my journalism school, they would announce when internships were being posted, when they were having virtual events. Just being exposed and having access to information is just a huge game changer. So get on as many email listers as you can, even if you have no business being in that club, you're still going to have access to all of those resources. That's something that definitely helped me a lot. And then resources like misempower where they're sharing like events, internship opportunities. Definitely take advantage of that, and then also don't be afraid to reach out first. There are so many people, whether it's through a formal program, there's some good ones like MLT that's a really great pipeline program. If you're like in the business space, or you're interested in like engineering. SEO is another good pipeline program if you're in that space as well, looking to break into like banking or the tech industry. Things like that apply for those pipeline programs to get that mentorship, coaching, and support because they make it so much easier to find internships and build that community as well outside of your immediate university and then joining clubs. I didn't do a sorority, but I had a lot of friends who are part of sororities. It's a great way to build community and also a chance to build your your network and get opportunities as well. But the key to be successful and really navigate university is just like not to spend all day in your dorm room and never make any friends. You really have to put yourself out there, join clubs, let people know what you're interested in so they can support you.
So, Kaylene, you know, we talked a lot about red flags in terms of a lot of different relationships in allies, but I would love to know what are some green flags that people should be on the lookout that lets them know, like this might be a good college for me. So you've already said a strong alumni network, you talked about diversity. What are some other green flags for you?
I think a really big one in terms of green flags would be like really assessing what that culture is like. I will never say anything bad about particularly universities, but let's say you hear a university is known for students having lots of suicides on campus. That might not be the one that I'm looking at. A university that's known for being like cut throat. Maybe they only have a particular amount of books and people are known for like ripping pages out of the books, or there are these crazy curves that cause divides, or like exclusive study groups. I know what I'm saying just sounds ridiculous, but that's a real thing. Also, campuses that might be known for like excessive hazing or like bad practices. Campuses that might be known for high amounts of sexual abuse, or like how do they address sexual abuse on campus as a woman. That's a real thing that we need to think about. Red flags are universities without like strong security systems. I mean, I went to a school with an open campus, but I still felt relatively safe, Like I just I don't want anyone to be able to access my dorm, Like it's really scary out here, so really think about all of those things as well. I think also a red flag. Most universities don't do the best with this. It's like a university which is a horrible I mean horrible career system. Like the whole point of view going to university is to elevate yourself to have access to career opportunities. If your career center just has nothing for you, like there's no jobs opportunities that come to campus, like when you ask them, like they can't even point you to the right direction or just give you access to like a lum like I would personally stay away unless you're just like a super self starter. Like I said, this university is only here to sponsor and pay for you. But I believe that like your university is supposed to have people there to provide you, like the support and resources. Honestly, I'm just going to say this as another red flag because you pay a lot of money intuition. I think universities that don't have any access to like mental health, wellness, academic coaching, those things are really important resources like to have like a learning center to have academic coaching or tutoring. Having access to the mental health resource is. I mean college is hard, like you will get lonely. You need to have resources to support your mental health. If they don't have that, that to me is a red flag. So my green flag would be a university having that great list.
Thank you for that, Kaitlyn. So where can we stay connected with you? What is your website? If you have one or any social media handles you'd like to share.
Yes, So for my website and all social media platforms, you can follow mis Empower. That's MI I S S E, M P O w h e R dot com and it's just mis Empower on all social media platforms. That's for my women empowerment brand. For myself, you can follow me Kaitlyn Kumi. That's c A I t l y N k U m I on LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram. Those are my main social media platforms to connect with me to get more career advice, personal finance tips, mental health tips, onus, beauty, all of that. That's the best way to stay in touch with me and get connected perfect well.
Thank you so much for sharing with us today, Caitlin I appreciate it.
Thank you for having me. This was great, and I hope so many young women listen to this episode and find value because college was definitely a great investment, even though it was very expensive.
Thank you. I can't stop thinking about what Caitlyn said around applying for scholarships not only in high school but also in college. That's definitely a major part of the college application process and enrolled student experience that I think unfortunately goes underlooked. Now that we've heard from a recent grand we'll hear from someone who has spent a bit more time out of college, someone who can share even more resources and considerations to assist you in making your college decision. Here's my conversation with Felicia. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Felicia, thank you for having me.
I'm excited.
Yeah, so you have started the College by Her program. Can you tell me a little bit about what that is?
Yes, So, College by Her is an organization and business that I started when I was in college. And so the way it started was after my freshman year, my friends and I wanted to get together and I had a friend who was a year younger than me, and she was like, you know, you have an older sister, she kind of helped you get ready for college, but I'm the only child, Like what about me? So me and my friends were like, Okay, you know, let's take all of our knowledge from our one year in college, you know, and let's share with these people who are about to go into college, like just what college is?
Like, what is office hours? What is all of these things?
Right? And so we got together one summer and had like a girl talk event. She brought all of her friends who were about to enter college. I brought all of my friends and we literally just told them everything.
About our first year.
When they absolutely loved it. They were like, this is something you need to do every year. And that happened in twenty fourteen. So here we are almost ten years later, and there have been a lot of different iterations of college by her summer events. Those have went from panels to one year I did a full day conference. So it's been a lot of different versions, but all of it to support black girls, specifically as they transition from high school into college.
I love that. So and even at a very young age, you had this whole spirit of wanting to kind of give back and pass on this knowledge. So how does it look different now with you being, you know, some years away from graduating to what it looked like when you first started.
Yeah, So when I was in college, it was definitely more of a peer right kind of model. I was in college as well, so helping younger girls transition. And then even when I was in grad school, like I still had a very strong connection to like my dance studio back home. So through there, a lot of girls would graduate and I could help them kind of transition into college. And so it definitely got a little bit more difficult as I got out of grad school because you know, age wise, I maybe didn't know that many people in high school or things like that, and so really being able to use the network that College by Her had built, and so girls who were still in college, they were kind of reaching back to their younger sisters and cousins and girls that they knew. So it was definitely that trickle down effect. And now like College by Her has a podcast, which I really love because I think when I was on campus, like being able to listen to something that's very quick, right like ten minutes I'm walking from one class.
To another, and so to be able to give them some.
Tidbits and information and inspiration I think has been really important. So the podcast is really like the main thing that College by Her is right now, and that's how I see my way of giving back, even though I am older and a little bit removed from college kind of compared to the younger days.
So what kinds of themes come up in terms of the challenges young black women are having either on campus or as they are preparing to go to college.
Yes, so I would say the main thing would be boundaries. Boundaries, and I'll say family relationships. And it's funny how those two things go together, right, So navigating family dynamics upon entering college, while in college, and then post college. So I think those are definitely two big things that come to mind when I think about the black college girls I've worked with in the past and even now, really talking about how can I assert my independence in this respectful, culturally appropriate way while also like having this autonomy and making choices that maybe everybody back home may not agree with, And then what does that look like? And kind of how am I coping with and managing some of those stressors.
What kinds of things do you think are helpful for young women as they consider like where to go to college, like as they're putting together their list of potential places.
Yeah, so I think definitely being able to go and visit a college physically, I think is helpful. I do know that that might not be available for everyone to do, so I do think some of the things that you can think of, whether you're able to go visit in person or not, is what are some of the things that you're looking for in terms of education. So I know some people know when they go into college what they want to do, and some people do and that's okay too. But sometimes if you do know what you want to do, Let's say you want to go to school for journalism, you might be looking into schools right who have a renowned journalism program.
And so I think if.
You know kind of where you want to go on the education side, that can be something that's kind of helping you to inform those choices. I think another big thing is in state versus out of state college is more expensive than when I went and so I'm from North Carolina, and so I remember my mom telling me when I was looking at schools outside of North Carolina, she's like, girl, do you see these out of state tuition prices? She's like, North Carolina has amazing colleges. So whatever you're looking for, I'm sure you can get here.
And she was right.
I went to Chapel Hill and absolutely loved it. But I would say that would be a piece as well. If you want to, you know, go far away for whatever reason or stay home for whatever reason, that can also play a part in kind of what college you're picking, as well as proximity to family. So there might be different, you know, reasons that you do need to be close to home, and so what does that look like? And so I think those are kind of some of the big picture things to help you. And I know some people like to look a little bit further into the academics on you know, students to teacher ratio if that's something that you know really is important to you, and other like resources that they have on campus. So I would say it would really depend on your values and what's kind of important to you and then being able to see if the college you're looking at can offer you those things.
And in your mind, are there any red flags that students should be paying attention to in terms of Okay, this might not be a good place for you.
Ooh, that's a good question.
Red flags, I would say, how people treat you when you're either like going to visit this campus or even just calling someone on the phone, and I say, treat you too, and like the culture of the university, so like, are they willing to like, oh, we're gonna you know, you missed the first part of your tour because you were in traffic. We're going to walk you to where they are. Just different things like that. I think the culture of the place can say a lot how people engage with you and how they talk about the university, and I think with that their reputation in a way. Right, of course, you have to kind of take things with the grain of salt, but I think sometimes to being able to hear other people's experiences and if you are kind of noticing a common theme right with everyone that you talk to who maybe went to that university, that could possibly be a red flag. Depending So those are kind of the two main things that are coming up for.
Me more from our conversation after the break. So, you know, a lot of students even still or you know, maybe among the first generation of students to go to college in their families. What kinds of resources exist that you can think of that might help somebody get ready for the application process.
Yes, so I do know that guidance counselors a lot of times in high schools can be a really first good resource to help you in that process.
As well as.
Depending on where you live, I do know there are nonprofit organizations in different cities who provide support to students who may need help filling out fast FA or going through the application process if they are the first in their.
Family to go to college.
So I've oftentimes talked to students about researching what those nonprofit organizations may look like in their community, because there are people out here who are doing this work to really support and walk students through that process if they do need any support. So I would definitely recommend looking into that based on where you live. And then a lot of colleges now have different programs over the summer you can be introduced to and engage in to kind of help you learn more about what college may look like. I know, for one, at Chapel Hill there's one called Project Uplift. It has been going on for over fifty years and I actually went as a participant, and then I got to participate as a staff member all four years in college. And so it's a great program where high schoolers get to come to Chapel Hell for a weekend, they go on a tour, they get to sit through academic class, all these other pieces to.
See like what even is college? Right? What does this look like? What is it like?
And so to be able to engage in different programs while you're in high school like that to expose you and just get your wheels turning, I think can be a really good resource as well.
Thank you for that. So one piece I don't think we often talk about enough is like the mental health impact even of the entire application process. Right, So there's just a lot of moving parts, a lot of papers to fill out, and I think for a lot of young people, this may be their first experience with rejection, right, like maybe not getting into the school they wanted. Can you talk a little bit about the mental health impact of even going through the application process?
Yes, So I think you bring up a good point about rejection because a lot of times, especially let's say, if I'm a high achieving person and I'm doing really well in high school, then that college application process can really be difficult because I am hearing no i'd be from a college that I really want to go to. And so I think a big thing that comes up for me during this process is community and like the people who are around you. So whether that be friends, family, a teacher, guidance, counselor whoever it is that you trust, like really being able to have these people in your corner who you can go to when you get that first rejection and maybe you know your feelings are hurt or maybe you're crying or different things like that, but having people in your corner who can encourage you and show that support and let you know that this one school rejected you, that doesn't mean you're you know, this failure or you're this bad person, or you're never going to go to college.
So really being able to support you in that way.
So I think community is a really big thing when it comes to navigating this process and whatever that community looks like for you.
So, besides the maybe experiences of rejection, are there any other mental health pieces you think are important to kind of pay attention to during this process?
I would say comparison, I think That's a big one in terms of applying for college and then even being in college. So when you're in college, I think it can be easy to compare yourself to your peers. Right, so this person, oh, they already have an internship, or this person already has a job once they graduate, and so it can make you feel like you're not doing enough, right, like you need to do more, or maybe I shouldn't have picked this major because they picked this major and they're getting all the job offers and I'm not. And so really kind of comparing yourself and the same with entering college. Right you might have a friend and they're going to I don't know, University of Hawaii and you're like, dang, I'm staying in North Carolina, and so comparing your experience to theirs and feeling like you need to be doing more, need to be doing less. So I think that is also a really big piece. It can take a toll, like on your mental health as well.
Felicia, I would love to throw you a little bit of a curve ball because I think, like you just mentioned high achieving students, right, so there are people and we know, I think especially in black families, right, there's this expectation that you like, do well in school and then after high school, you're definitely going to college. And you know, the truth is that college is not going to be the best fit for everybody. And I don't know that we always give people space to kind of figure out what are they actually wanting to do after high school? So what kinds of tips would you give for somebody to figure out is college even the next thing for me? Like? What kinds of things should they be thinking about?
Yes, I think definitely going back to this idea of values. I think that would be really important to consider when thinking about what someone might want to do after high school. I know that now people are more open to the idea of going to cosmetology school and going to get other certifications and things. I feel like this more accepted maybe now as people are seeing how expensive college is and all the student loans some people have to pay back, and you know, there are amazing and great jobs that people can have without going to college, and I think that is becoming more normalized now. And so I would say, in terms of being in high school and exploring what's next or what you would like to do, I would say going back to things you're interested and passionate about, and also too, when thinking about your aspirations or just even hopes and dreams that you have, doing research and seeing the different pathways to get there, because I'm sure, as we all know, college is not the only pathway to get somewhere, So there might be other paths that gets you exactly to where you want to be that don't involve a four year degree. And so doing some research, whether that's online, talking to people, shadowing somebody in the job feeld that you want to be in, maybe asking them what their credentials are, what their background is. And so I think being able to talk to people to get that research done, I think would be really helpful.
You know, it's funny because it seems like in black families and maybe other families too, there's fun being picked at students who say they want to take a gap year, right, Like, what does that even mean? I don't even feel like that was a conversation when I was like coming out of high school, So I feel like that is a newer kind of a term. But you know, people tend to make fun of students who say they want to take a gay year and it's like, well, what are you gonna do with your life? And it's funny because even as recently is I'm not sure if you watch The Queen's barnb Show on Bravo, but Koco was having a conversation with her child about it. Sounds like the child did really well in their first year of school and initially wanted to be a dentist, but they're thinking now they want to follow moms footsteps and singing and they have a beautiful voice. And she was like, absolutely not like you're going to school, you wanted to be a dentist. And so I wonder if there are suggestions you can offer two parents about maybe how to be more supportive of their student if they do decide they want to take a gap year or they want to do something different than college.
Yeah. So I think the example you gave about even someone going to college and then changing their mind, I've been seeing that a lot as well. And so to parents, I think my advice is to understand developmentally, like where your child is, and so we oftentimes talk about this idea like in high school. When someone's eighteen seventeen, that is a very interesting age to be asking them to make a decision of what they want to do for the next four years, because at eighteen, you probably don't even know what you want to do next month, and so when you think about it, you know, culturally, it is really interesting. That's a lot of weight, right to kind of put on someone. I mean, we're trusting them to make this decision that then they're just not supposed to change their mind about or have any other feelings about. I mean, I think that's tough, and so I think for parents, I would encourage, you know, empathy in conversations and communication. So being able to talk to your child about what got them to that point in making that decision that maybe they no longer want to go to college and no longer want to be in college. I think those conversations can be really helpful because sometimes I think, especially in the black community, it can be because I said, so, right, and you're going to college.
That's it.
And so to have that two way communication to listen to what it is that your child is sharing. That of course doesn't mean you're going to agree right with everything, but to be able to have that conversation so that they feel like they can share with you what made them change their mind or what's going on for them, I think is really important.
While we are talking about parents, I think one something else that they often struggle with is the idea that they are now turning over responsibilities to their student right and they are in the driver's seat in terms of like what happens in their life. What might you say to parents who are struggling with this new transition.
Woo.
So it's so interesting. I feel like I have so many different perspectives here. I'm not a parent myself, but I'm the youngest of four, and so my mom, you know, having to come into this on her own, and then of course now working with college students and so hearing them share their experience with their parents. And I've also worked with parents in the past, so kind of having these different experiences, I think I will definitely go back to this idea of communication. I think it's really important, and going back to boundaries as well.
Because we know that in black.
Households and families it can be really difficult to know how to set a boundary if that's never been modeled for you, if you've never seen someone do that in a healthy and respectful way.
I'll add those.
Two pieces, and so if I've never seen that before, then when I get to college, it's going to be that much more difficult for me to set a boundary with my mom or my dad or my grandma or whoever as I am making that transition. And on the other side of that, my mom or dad might not know how to respond to set boundary because I've never set one before. So it's a lot of new things happening that no one has experience, and so I think with that, everyone needs grace. So the student, you know, needs grace for their parent. The parent needs grace for the student. When I find oftentimes when I'm able to let people know that like, hey, this is new for all of us, like nobody has done this before, and that can kind of lower people's defenses in terms of like needing to be right or all of those other things, because it is really hard to navigate these transitions, especially when you're talking about like living situations.
So you used to live at school and now you're.
Coming home for the holidays, and you want to be able to stay out till three o'clock in the morning because that's what you do at school.
But your mom was like, no, you're not doing that in my house? What does that look like? So, yeah, it can be difficult.
So what advice would you give to students who are in the throes of the application process right now? Any tips for taking care of themselves or just kind of getting through the process.
Yes, I would definitely say to take breaks. I think oftentimes when we're in any type of application process, but specifically for school, it can feel very much like if I started this application today, I have to finish it today. So what would it be like to break things down into smaller parts? So maybe today you work a little bit on that essay that you write, and maybe tomorrow is when you're gonna email such and such for that letter of recommendation. So kind of giving yourself benchmarks and breaking tasks down into smaller tasks so that you don't feel like overwhelmed by the process a piece of advice as well, as I found this to be helpful.
Tricking your mind about the due date.
So like, if the due date for something is January first, you tell yourself is December first. So that guy that gives you, you know, that gap, that buffer for things that might go wrong, whether that's somebody who was supposed to write you a letter of recommendation is two weeks late, right, or anything like that.
It gives you that.
Time and so you're not feeling so crunched and stressed, and you know that you'll probably have it done by December first, and if you don't, you still kind of have that wiggle room because you gave yourself that time.
So I appreciate that you have such a wealth of knowledge, right starting this organization while you were in college, going through college yourself, and now being on the other side helping college students. What kinds of life skills do you think young people need in college that they might not quite be developing in high school, and what kinds of things should they do to kind of start working on those.
It's been really interesting to work in college mental health through COVID because I think something that we've really been able to see in real time, like I'm sure many other therapists have as well, is the impact on the social piece of people's development, particularly communication. So as I'm meeting with college students now, some of these students were coming up on possibly the majority of their high school time was online, right, So when you think about that and then you come to college and let's say you're unhappy with something your professor did. That kind of skill of maybe going to office hours and asking your professor like, hey, can you explain to me the score on this paper or help me understand the rubric a little better? My've scene that's fl maybe isn't all the way there. So in terms of advocating for oneself communicating, whether that be to a professor, or it can even be in peer relationships, I do think that COVID and a lot of those skills that maybe people might develop in high school because the opportunity wasn't there. There might just be some gaps there, and so that can make some situations a little more challenging in college because that practice maybe wasn't there the same way in high school that we've seen in years past.
So do you have like an exercise or a prompt that you can offer our community that you maybe use with your clients to help with the communication skills?
I oftentimes talk about I statements and so being able to share with whoever it is, family member or professor, how you're feeling. I think a lot of times it's easy to point the finger and tell them what they're doing, but to let them know the impact. So I feel blank and being able to fill that with an emotion. A lot of times we follow I I feel with the thought, and so I give my students emotion and feelings will so that they can have toolbox in a vocabulary to be able to pick from in terms of what they might share with someone about how they're feeling. Then I also encourage them to listen, to understand, and not to respond, so remembering that communication, of course is what you share with others, but also being able to like hear and listen to what it is the other person is saying back.
So oftentimes I find that that I feel.
Prompts are really helpful, and going into a conversation being able to identify what it is you may need, I think that is a really big one. So for example, if I'm talking to a friend, I may need support, I may need advice, but being able to start that conversation off asking for what I need can also help clear up any confusion between me and that friend, and I find that to be helpful. You know, when thinking about professors too, so do I need help with this assignment? Am I looking for guidance? Clarity and being able to start the conversation off with stating that too.
You know, Felicia there, it feels like are so many different things for a student to consider when they are picking, Like what's the right school for me? So I want to share a list of things, and I want you to tell me, like what might be the top three considerations? So sports, academics, social, the city or town that the schools in, or money in financial support.
Ooh, this is a great question. By the way, I would say money and finances is going to be up there, because with the way college is costing in these student loans.
Look, if you got a school that's giving.
You a good amount of money and they are a reputable and accredited school and all those other things, and you like them, I would pick that school over at school that I also really liked, what wasn't giving me that much money?
So I would say money and finances is up there.
I would definitely say city in town is up there as well. And then this might be cheating, but I feel like amongst the rest of them, it would depend on who you are and like your needs, right, because for some person, and you go back to that example of journalism, maybe I want to be a sports journalist, so I might feel like the sports at a particular school are more important because I want to, you know, work in their sports journalism program and do different things and travel with their team, whereas for someone else that might not be important at all. You know, I don't care if you don't have a football teams. I would say the third one would depend on who the person is and what it is that they're looking for. But I would say money is definitely up there.
On the list.
Okay, So I want to take this question a little further because I think for a lot of people who might be enjoying this podcast, one of the decisions they will be making is a PWI versus an HBCU. So can you shed a little light on what kinds of things might be helpful in somebody trying to make that decision.
Yeah.
So, I know for a lot of people, their family. If they're not the first person and their family to go to college, their family plays a big role, right, whether it's everybody in our family went to A and T or everybody in our family went here. So being able to I think realize is this a place that you want to go or is this a place that your family's making you go, and that can go for any place. So I would say that is could be a first step when it comes to thinking about colleges.
I also think going back to program.
So for example, there are a lot of schools who have great nursing programs, and so maybe you're looking at when the Salem State because of their nursing program, or maybe you're looking at a specific school because of a major that they have, So that can also drive what it is that you're looking for in terms of a college and also a community. It's no secret that the Black community is very different on a PWI on the HBCU campus, right, and not good versus bad, but literally just different. And so I think a student being able to recognize what they might like and what they want their college experience to be like.
And I know there are different.
People who they've given theirselves the opportunity to do both because maybe they went to a PWI for undergrad and a hbc for grad school, or even going to a PWY that maybe an HBCU was down the street, so you get to engage in their social activities and vice versa. So I think it really depends on what it is that you're looking for.
I did attend a PWI.
For both undergrad and grad school, and I think that being in the Triangle area in North Carolina, like being able to go to different functions. And I was also as black and goal, so I was really close with like the alphas at Central even though I went to Chapel Hill, and so being able to engage and be a part of black culture at other colleges even though I wasn't a student there. So I would say it just definitely depends on the person and what it is that they're looking for out of their college experience.
I think that's incredibly helpful. Thank you so much for that for Alicia, So you know where we can stay connected with you. What is your website as well as any social media handles you'd like to share.
Yes, So, as we talked about earlier, College by Her the podcast is one of my favorite things.
College by Her the podcast.
You can find that everywhere that podcasts are so Spotify, Apple podcasts, all of those things, and we're also on Instagram at College by Her. And then in terms of everything else related to me, I do like workshops and speak and facilitate group dialogue and all of those things, and that information is at her wellness et which stands for Enterprises dot com. So really excited about all the upcoming things I have going on. I also have her college manual that I wrote, so it's like a mental health guide for college students that walks through a variety of social and emotional mental health topics. When it's twelve topics kind of to go one month out of the year and you pick one, and there's psycho education in there as well as journaling, pomps and tips and all of that. So that's also located on her wellness eant dot com.
Perfect We will be sure to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today, Felicia. I want to thank Caitlin and Felicia for joining us for this episode. To learn more about the work we're doing at TBG University, please check us out at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash TBGU