TBG Library: Dyscalculia

Published Aug 25, 2023, 7:00 AM

We’re back this week to provide you with another page-turning addition to your bookshelf. Grab your reading glasses, find somewhere cozy, and get into this week’s TBG library pick, Dyscalculia by Camoghne Felix. In Dyscalculia, Camoghne recalls various heartbreaks experienced throughout her life and connects them to her childhood experience with dyscalculia, a disorder that makes it difficult to learn math, using it as a metaphor for the consequences of her miscalculations in love. 

Camoghne joins us today to discuss the process of writing a vulnerable memoir, what lessons about heartbreak the book has to offer, and her hopes to start an intergenerational conversation around mental illness and Black women. Please note that our conversation does include references to self harm so please support yourself in whatever way is best while listening.

 

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Our Production Team

Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard

Producers: Fredia Lucas, Ellice Ellis & Cindy Okereke

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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so much for joining me for another special TPG live episode. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Which friend are you? And your sister circle? Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker, the firecracker or the leader? Take the quiz at Sisterhoodhels dot com slash quiz to find out, and then make sure to grab your copy of Sisterhood Heels to find out more about how you can be a better friend and how your circle can do a better job of supporting you. Order yours today at Sisterhoodheels dot com. We're back this week to provide you with another page turning addition to your bookshelf, Grab your reading glasses, find somewhere cozy, and get into this week's TVG Library Pick Discalculia by Komone Felix. In this Calculia, Komone recalls various heartbreaks experience throughout her life and connects them to her childhood experience with this calculia, a disorder that makes it difficult to learn math, using it as a metaphor for the consequences of her miscalculations and love. Cimone joins us today to discuss the process of writing a vulnerable memoir, what lessons about heartbreak the book has to offer, and her hopes to start an intergenerational conversation around mental illness and black women. Please note that our conversation does include references to self harm, so please support yourself in whatever way is best while listening. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, share it with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in Session, or join us over in the Sister Circle to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Comone.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm extremely happy to be here.

Yes, I'm honor you took some time to chat with us today. So you are a writer, a poet, and an essay is known for Build Yourself a Boat, and your work in The Cut, New Yorker, Vanity Fair, and many many more places. What attracted you to writing and poetry as a medium.

When I was a little girl, I spent a lot of time in my head and I would make up stories about the things that I wanted to see happen, like, for instance, if I had a crush on a boy, I would be up until four in the morning literally designing what I thought my relationship with this boy would look like, and through storytelling that I used to like soothe myself. I just found it to be really special and cool to be able to use words to paint pictures and explain what I was thinking.

And that has translated you and been a through line throughout your career.

Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. For most of my career, I have continued to think up wild stories, and it's always been very exciting to think about how to put those stories both true stories and fictional stories into words and language that help other people make sense of their own lives. It makes sense of the world around us. I just really wanted to be the kind of maker who brought people closer to the truth of their own lives and the truth of what it means to exist in the world at this time. So all the writing that I do, the poetry writing, the nonfiction, and the essay work is all towards that goal in some way shape or form.

M You know, you are one of my favorite nonfiction writers. I always love seeing like a not fiction piece from you because it feels like it always has some of this storytelling element. Can you talk a little bit about the differences, maybe for inspiration when you're writing like a non fiction piece, maybe for The Cut versus your fiction and poetry.

Yeah. So when I'm writing for The Cut or any other magazine, I'm thinking about the topic at hand, whatever story they want me to write, and trying to figure out what is the way to maximize the context here so that other people can find themselves in the story. Right, if I'm going to talk about, for instance, and mobiles, if I'm going to write about her, what could it be about her life, about her story that might be relevant to all of these readers who are coming to it right and always trying to think about what is the unique angle, the thing that hasn't been discussed before that or the thing that hasn't been discussed enough that I could bring to life in that story. And I think it's not too different from what happens in poetry and in fiction. I think constantly when I'm writing poetry, I'm trying to think, what is the innovative, unique way that I can tell this story that I'm about to tell, and what is it that I can say to people that hasn't been said before? And in fiction, I think it's a little bit less about trying to say something that hasn't been said before, more trying to double down on a fact or a way of thinking that's already been established and trying to bring people a little bit closer to it. Right. So, if you already believe for the kind of person who believes that housing should be a human right, that people should have access to mental health care, then how do you write a story that's shaped around that ideal, that doubles down on that and makes people believe it even more.

H I love that, Thank you. So let's dive into discalculia. So can you share what discalculia is and why it was so meaningful for you to explore and address your learning disorder in the book given the same name.

Yes, So, dyscalculia is a learning disorder that is similar to dyslexia, except that it applies in a mathematics context and it prevents an individual from being able to do basic arithmetical computation. So when you were in third grade and you were learning how to do fractions and put together a graph and do those calculations, I struggled significantly with learning those things. It just didn't make sense to me. It was like word salad, Like I couldn't figure out where to even put a number or a figure to make a computation make sense. And this was really important for me to think about and to bring into my work because it is a not very well known disorder and it's definitely not a disorder that people associate with black women. And it's also a disorder that can in some ways not necessarily be triggered by trauma, but can coincide with a trauma trigger and sort of happen at the same time as a young person is trying to process trauma, or any person is trying to process trauma. And as I was trying to process my childhood trauma, math and the ability to do it just left my mind. I just wasn't able to do mathematics in the same way that I had been able to do before, which I think has a lot to do with the trauma that I experienced and was brought on by it. And I wanted to highlight some of those connections and bring the conversation both into a mental health context as we were talking about trauma, and also bring it into a physiological context. Right, bringing trauma into a physiological context, how do we talk about the way trauma affects the body and the mind, and then how do we talk about the way the body and the mind are affected by trauma? That was really important for me to highlight, and I wanted to write a book that did all of that and told a really good story and told a story that everyone could relate to, which is about heartbreak and trying to navigate what it feels like to have your heart broken while trying to understand the sort of mathematical equations that create the decisions that you make, or inspire the decisions that you make, and inspire the decisions that the people around you make.

And was this something that was diagnosed for you when you were younger.

This wasn't diagnosed for me until I was much much older, and it was a wake up call. I had always been the kind of person to say like, Ugh, I'm just not good at math, or don't give me the check at the table, I'm not splitting the bill. But I realized once I got diagnosed that these were things I was telling myself as a way to mask and hide behind a real disability. And there was a part of me that knew that I was struggling with a disability, especially because when I was younger, before third grade, I was actually really, really good at math. My mom had bought me a bunch of math games and computer games and I was excelling at all of them. And then at the same time that a significant trauma happened to me, I lost the ability to do those things. And when I was diagnosed as an adult, I realized that none of those things could be understood in isolation, not the trauma, not the disability that I had to look at them all through the same lens, or at least try to understand them through the same lens, and that was really empowering for me.

I thought it was a very innovative. And you've already used that word approach to writing to connect these traumatic experiences to math in a way that I think I hadn't seen kind of written before. And the memoir really goes from early childhood to it seems like more recent days detailing heartbreaks and like in a nonlinear form. Can you talk a little bit about some of those heartbreaks and why you felt important to write about them.

Yeah, Well, first of all, I'm so grateful that you said heartbreaks with that s on the end, because that's exactly what they are to me. There are systems of heartbreaks in that book, everything from the assault that I dealt with as a child, to falling out of love with Math, to some of the conflict with me and my mom, and then the larger macro heartbreak that happened with a young man that I was involved with for a long time. I really wanted to point to the fact that heartbreak can be any scale, right, that heartbreak can be small heartbreak can be medium sized, it can be huge and devastating, but that they were all valid and that felt important because, at least in the world that I live in, black girls in particular aren't validated in their pain. We go through heartbreak, whether it's small or large, romantic or familial, cultural, and we're told that we need to get over it. In the book, I highlight some of the conversations that I had after my breakup where people around me were just like, Oh, you'll be fine, just work harder, don't think about it, and it'll go away, And it didn't at all consider the fact that I was genuinely not okay. I was already disrupted in a way that was going to prevent me from moving on in the way that they thought that I should. And I wanted people to start to think about their own heartbreaks and about the ways that the world breaks their heart and consider whether or not they should be taking their heartbreaks more seriously, that they should be tending to them more carefully, right, giving themselves more care Yeah, you.

Know, I think it's important to think about heartbreaks, even if the content is not the same every time. It is in a lot of ways peeling the scalpe off of a wound that was there, like every additional heartbreak, and so I really appreciated you talking about how this felt in cumulative in a lot of ways, because it really is scratching at that wound all over again, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, So in the book, you also talk a lot about your diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Why did it feel important to write about that as a part of this story.

Being bipolar is something that I've been struggling with all of my life, but only just was diagnosed with in the last six years. And in the book you see a lot of my behavior right, especially from being a child onward. But I wanted to kind of show the world what a bipolar black girl could look like, not to make myself the sort of poster child, because there are so many different ways that bipolar affects any one of us. But as a person who struggled significantly in childhood with behavior stuff, with access to resources, who was hospitalized many times, it felt impossible to tell the story of heartbreak without talking about the way mental illness has facilitated some of those heartbreaks in my life. And if not mental illness as an abstract thing, then maybe mental health care and the mental health care system the way that I had been abandoned, and it took me a really long time to get the correct diagnosis, even though all the evidence was there from the very beginning. It feels like bipolar is as much part of my story as dyscalculia is, especially because the two of them are actually coexisting, and so for many people with bipolar disorder, they struggle with dyscalculia or dyslexia, and that connection was really eye opening for me to recognize it. As a kid, I was already struggling with manic episodes and struggling with depressive episodes, and the way that it was affecting my brain triggered the dyscalculia and made it harder for me to show up for myself and show up in the way that I would have liked to intellectually. And yeah, I wanted to talk about it because I haven't seen many books written by black women about bipolar disorder, and I just felt like there needed to be more out there, especially for young bipolar people, to be able to know that like one, You're gonna be okay, and two life looks good on the other side.

Yeah, I would say. Besides, I'm lying, but I'm telling the truth. I can't think of any others that talk about black women. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I.

Actually want to talk about that book for a second because I think it's so important to look at lineage like Bassie. It has been inspiring me since I was maybe fifteen years old, watching her poetry, seeing her at the New yorreekan Poet's Cafe, which is a big part of where I got my start, and really just admiring her, not knowing what she was struggling with, and when she came out with I'm lying, but I'm telling the truth, I felt a sense of freedom of validity because she was talking about it, and because she was being open about it, I felt like I could talk about it and I could be open about it. And I just think that lineage is so important. It's so critical to know to be able to see in the world work that mirrors your life, because it gives you permission to take it a little bit further, to tell a different story, but something that's just as connected. I really love Bassie and I'm very grateful for her.

I appreciate you sharing that more from our conversation after the break. Have you gotten emails or private messages from readers talking about seeing themselves and their stories in your work.

For sure. I've gotten so many messages on Instagram and on TikTok and on Twitter, people just saying like this has been my story. The most popular message I get is like I have discapulated, and I've never seen anybody write about it. I've never even seen the word outside of a mental health context, and that's really gratifying and special, because I think that's what makes writing feel so important, is knowing that there are people out there who are going to be able to see themselves in your work. And every time I get one of those messages, I get a little emotional and I have to kind of like avoid it, like I'll look at it and then put it down really quickly so that I don't get overly emotional. Because to know that there are so many people out there, so many black girls in particular, especially those with bipolar disorder and dyscalculia or just who are working through heartbreak and just got their hearts broken, I just kind of want to hug them all. And this book feels like my opportunity to do that to just hug them and send them some love.

So what do you feel like you learned about yourself by transferring your experiences to the memoir.

I feel like I learned that I'm very flawed, that I don't always make the best or healthiest decisions for myself. And I also learned that I'm really strong, that I have the ability to advocate for myself and to articulate who I am and articulate what I need and honestly like one of the biggest takeaways for me in the process of writing was how I relate to my mother. Reading the story back and seeing how she's portrayed just made me have a lot more not respect, because I obviously really respect my mom, but a lot more affection for the way that she raised me and what she had to sacrifice so that I could be a kind of self affirming person who could make something like this and put it out in the world. I feel like I don't always understand how I've been mothered, but looking at this book and reading this book helped me understand how my mother mothered me and like what her style was, and helped me understand why it turned out to be probably a lot better off than I could have been. And I'm not a mother, and I don't think that I intend to be, but it does inspire me to think differently about what we expect of moms, especially of black moms dealing with mentally ill children who are likely mentally ill themselves. Yeah. I just felt like she really showed up in this narrative and I learned a lot about her.

Have there been conversations with your mom since then that have been difficult to have?

Not so much difficult. She hasn't read the book. When I started writing poetry when I was sixteen, my mother was like, your poetry is morbid and put it down, walked away. She was just like, I don't want to be sad when I read your work. But I have sent her some screenshops of passages of where I'm talking about her, and pretty much almost everything that I've sent her, she's just confirmed. She's like, Yep, that's exactly how it happened, That's exactly how I felt. You got that spot on, That's exactly what I taught you. That's exactly what I said. And it is validating because I think often when we try to retell the stories of our child. We realized somewhere along the lines that like the story we're telling ourselves or the stories that we're telling others, is not necessarily the same story that our parents are telling. And I feel like she continues to give me confirmation that we actually are on the same page, that it did happen the way I thought it happened, and that I'm not making it up, and that's been really empowering.

We already talked a lot about, you know, some of the content, but it is incredibly transparent, Like you, I feel like, don't really hold back much in the book. So you even shared about your experiences with heartbreak and being cheated on? Was there any trepidation for you as a black woman author writing about that or why did you feel like it was important to share that?

There was some trepidation, But honestly, the reason why I felt important to share was because when I was going through it, I texted my then best friend and was like, are there any books that you've read by black women that are about heart break and being cheated on in this way? And she could recount maybe three of them, And even when I went to those books, it wasn't exactly what I needed like it got me close, but it wasn't exactly what I needed. And I remember her saying to me, like, listen, you know what Tony Morrison says. If you can't find it, then you have to write it. And once I started writing it, I realized how much I needed it and how much I needed my candor, and I needed to be honest and generous. And by the time I finished it and sort of realized that other people would be reading it, it felt senseless to try to scale back or to limit what I put on the page, since what I gave to myself was exactly what I needed and I could only assume that someone else might need it. And I just feel like there are so many times where a black woman is going through the world with no support in the situation that she's dealing with, and I didn't want to create another book that left her hanging. So if I can have candor, and if I could be honest and be generous in my depiction of my own pain, then maybe that meant that she could have relief in her own And that felt more important to me than the anxiety of feeling embarrassment or feeling like I said too much.

So tell me a little bit about the process, because it sounds like this work came about because it was what you felt like you needed to read at this particular moment in your life, So you weren't necessarily setting out to write this. This kind of came from experiences in your life. What were you on task to write as your next book?

I was just writing poetry. And when I started, I wrote most of this book in my phone because at first I just started writing small passages to my and it was originally titled I Think Twenty Ways to Lose Your Girlfriend or something like that, and it was a poem that had these small stanzas that were sort of dancing all over the page, and the poem format just like didn't fit. I couldn't get honest enough. And in the process, when I started writing these short paragraphs in my notes, I realized that there was something there, something like readable and generous that I just wasn't able to get at with my poetry. So I just kept going mainly for myself because I just felt like I needed it. I needed to, but also for an assumed reader, right like I was like, if my little sister were reading this, would I want her to read this series of poems or would I want her to read these like generous and honest paragraphs. And yeah, one thing turned into another and we have the.

Memoir slash poetry book.

Yeah. Yeah, the poetry book is like hanging out now begging me to be written. So I'm trying to pay attention to her. And it's also going to be about mental health, so they're all working in the same theme.

So there's a moment in your story where you can fide it in your boss about your breakup and challenges, and she suggested using work as a coping mechanism. Tell me a little bit about why you think romantic breakups don't carry the same weight and seriousness as other griefs that people experience in their lives.

Yeah. I think it's because it's something that everyone experiences. And I know that that sounds a little contradictory because you would assume that because it's something that everyone experiences, everyone would take it seriously. But I think that because there isn't death involved, right, and it's not as final as death, and because it means that someone had to make a choice, and because that happens to everyone at some point in their lives. We all just fall into the trap of like, that's life, right, Life is falling in love and getting your heart broken, and every one of us goes through it, and every one of us has to endure, so you'll just have to get over it. I think we see its ubiquity as a sign that it can't be that serious because everyone experiences it, which is different from the death of a parent or something like that, where we all experience it, but it only happens to you one time, right or twice, and it usually happens at the end of your life. And it does have a lot of material gravity, right. It changes the materiality of your life when a parent dies, and in the way that we grieve, But we don't think about the materiality of a breakup and the way that it changes the system of the life around you. And I think we have a lot of as a societ. We have a lot of distractions. There's a lot of ways to avoid processing your heartbreak and processing a breakup. We have hookup culture, we have happy hour culture. Right. There are so many ways that we set up that we think allow us to move past heartbreak, when really what we're doing is masking and hiding, and yeah, I just think we undervalue it because we have that.

Access more from our conversation after the break I appreciate you sharing that, and you know, I talk about that as well in sisterhood heels around how romantic breakups, you know, I feel like there's even more even though still not enough support there. But friendship breakups are worse in a lot of ways.

Yeah, for sure, I've definitely had a friendship breakup that to this day, I'm still in therapy trying to process. And this person and I fell out maybe four years ago, and I feel like, even more so, there's even less space in our society to talk about what it feels like to lose a friend, especially if you lose them in a traumatic way or whatever. I feel like that's a story I want to write.

We'll be looking forward to that one. Yeah. So, based on the support you feel like you did not get around your breakup, what message or advice would you have for your younger self related to romantic relationships ending, or what advice would you like to share with people who might be enjoying our conversation.

I would tell myself and anyone listening to call out of work, especially if you can to turn the lights off, to drink water right, to watch the sad shows, cry as much as you want, eat as much ice cream as you want. Literally, allow your brain and your body to do the healing that it needs to do so that you can come out on the other side of it. And don't force your mind and your body to go straight into survival mode in order to process it. Let your body take care of you. It wants to do that, right, even if that means indulging in thousands of calories. Whatever their calories, you can burn them later. I just wish that I had given myself the chance to grieve within the time that I had, because not being able to grieve meant that it came out in this book later, right, which, like, yes, it's a lovely book, and I'm very proud of what I put out, But the anxiety and the pain that I went through in trying to understand why I needed to write this book, in trying to understand the care I needed to give myself, could have been avoided if I had just let myself feel what I needed to feel.

That's powerful advice, very very good stuff there. So what do you feel like you learned about love by writing the book.

I learn that love is a system, and that our actions are calculations and we make choices based on what we consider valuable and what we consider important. And I learn that you don't always mean to hurt someone, but that you may cause harm anyway, and that it's really important to be accountable to that harm in whatever way you can. And finally, and most importantly, I think I learned that heartbreak doesn't necessarily mean that there is a villain. Sometimes the victim and the villain are the same person, and trying to sort of blow up that binary really allows us to understand our own behaviors and to understand how harm happens in love. And I take that into the relationship that I'm in now. There are choices is that I get to make every day, and there are some choices that allow me to love this person a little bit more and choices that get in the way of me loving them. And I want to make the choice that allows me to love them more. So I have to think really hard about my actions and control my impulses, and if I can't control them, at least evaluate them, like why do I have the impulse to do this thing versus the other.

Yeah, I'm curious. Come on, how if in any way did you work with mental health professionals as you were writing the book.

Yeah. I don't think I was in therapy as I was writing this book, but I was medicated at least for half of the process half of writing it. And I think what I've learned about therapy and just mental health care in general is that like for the most part, you may not always, but for the most part, you know what you need. And I knew that I needed to process this in this book. And that's not to say that I couldn't have used a therapist or that it wouldn't have been useful to me, but that the way that I needed to be therapized was through this creative process. And so I was being medicated and making sure to avoid episodes. At least in the latter half. I've medicated to stay present. But I also wrote this book as a way to talk to myself and to do similar work that I knew I was hungry to do with a therapist. And now that I'm back in therapy, I see that book as a two year process of me writing down everything that I needed to talk about with a therapist and getting clarity on where I was confused and what I've been frustrated with. And my therapist now is like so proud of me and has been a huge help as the book came out in helping me navigate what it would feel like to have all of these people engaging with the text and reading things about my life. And I've learned that the process doesn't end. There's so much work that I have to keep doing in therapy and with my therapist to be able to continue to show up for this book and show up for myself and show up for everything that I'm going to write in the future. And I really just like I love therapy, I really do. And there's a part of me that wishes I had been in therapy while I wrote this book, Like I wonder what the book would have looked like. I think that if I were in therapy, that dynamic would have made itself into the book, Like I would have been talking about my therapist and talking about some of those conversations, which frankly could have been really interesting. But yeah, that's pretty much how I engaged with it.

And have you used any passages from the book with your therapist as a like, here, this is evidence of what I was talking about or what I've experienced, or do you just share based on what you've written in the book.

Yeah. I share with her what is in the book and the things that I've said, and she takes it, holds on to it, and is like, yes, I see this in how you work. Now let's talk about what we can do so that either this doesn't happen or you avoid these impulses like going into an episode and cheating on my ex. Right, Like using that as an example of how scary it can be when I'm in an episode and her helping me navigate why that's happening. What is it that I'm running away from or attracted to while I'm in an episode that causes me to lose impulse control? Right? But I talk to her a lot about the sort of life around the book. So I'll tell her when I have an event or if I had a conversation, like I'm definitely going to tell her about this because I know she'll be excited, and she's just like the best cheerleader. She's just so like, yes, I'm proud of you. Keep going and it's crazy you never realize how much you need that from a therapist until you have it. I just did not know that I needed my therapist to be so caring, like genuinely caring, And now that I have her, I don't want to go back to dealing with therapists who maintain that distance that doesn't allow them to really get to know me or for me to feel loved by them. Frankly right, it's obviously like professional boundaries that are set up and that are necessary. But I think that there's something so special about feeling genuinely loved and liked by this person that you spend money to hang out with once a week and tell all your problems too.

So if there was one thing your readers of this calculata could walk away learning, what would that thing be?

I think the one thing it would be is that never let anyone tell you that learning information about yourself is harmful to you. The more information you have about who you are, about how you work, about how your brain works and how your mind interacts with your body. The more information you have about that, the more you understand what you need, how you need it, and how to that show up for yourself and the world, and if that means going to therapy, getting a diagnosis, trying out different sports, going to the doctor for full body workups once a year, just so that you know all the information that you could possibly have about yourself is necessary to hold close to chess.

And besides your book, what other books or TV shows or documentaries or any other kind of media do you feel like do a really good job of addressing heartbreak?

Fleishman Is in Trouble is a TV show on Hulu that is based on a novel by Taffy prodesster Acnor. And it's about heartbreak, but it's also about mental health. And I think the way that it's handled is really really careful and really interesting. And I think even though the mental health aspect is pretty implicit, it still does everything that a good TV show about heartbreak does and a good TV show about mental healthcare does.

I had not heard of that one. I definitely won't add that one to my list. Thanks to check out. Thank you for sharing it. So where can we stay connected with you? Kimon? What is your website and any social media handles you'd like to share? And where can we grab a copy of the book.

You can grab a copy of the book at any place that books are sold bookshop. If your online is a good place to get books, especially from independent booksellers, please take a walk into your local bookstore and order it there. Support local indies for sure. You can find me on social media at my name, which is Camo Ngne. I'm very active on Instagram. I love it there, so if you can find me there, that's probably where you get the most updates. I don't have a website yet, but when I do, it'll probably just be my first name and my last name dot com, so keep a lookout for that.

Perfect will we short to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for sending some time with us today. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me, doctor Joy.

You're welcome. I'm so glad come one was able to join us today to chat about Discalculia. To learn more about her work, or to grab your copy of the book, visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, slash Discalculia, and don't forget to text two of your girls right now and encourage them to check out the episode. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Brad. We'll be back next week with another regular episode of the podcast, but until then, take good care of yourself. Which friend are you and your sister circle? Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker, the firecracker or the leader? Take the quiz at Sisterhoodheels dot com slash quiz to find out, and then make sure to grab your copy of Sisterhood Heels to find out more about how you can be a better friend and how your circle can do a better job of supporting you. Order yours today at Sisterhoodheels dot com.

Therapy for Black Girls

The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
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