Session 383: Being A Black Woman Muslim

Published Oct 30, 2024, 7:00 AM

I’m excited to share the first in a series of conversations that we’ve recorded with Black women of several religious backgrounds. Today, we’ll be exploring the experiences of Black women in the Islamic faith. Joining me to share her experience as a Black woman Muslim is founder of the platform Every Black Muslim Girl, Khadeejah B. During our conversation we discussed what it means to be a Black Muslim woman, address the concerns around women’s agency under the Islamic faith, and explore what Islam teaches about mental health and well-being.

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The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for Session three eighty three of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors.

Hi. I'm Kadija b and I'm of the Therapy for Black Girl's podcast. I'm in session today unpacking my experience as a black Muslim woman.

I'm excited to share the first in a series of conversations that we've recorded with black women of several religious backgrounds. Today, we'll be exploring the experiences of black women in the Islamic faith. Joining me to share her experience as a black woman Muslim is founder of the platform Every Black Muslim Girl Kadija B. In our conversation, Kadija and I discuss what it means to be a black Muslim woman, address the concerns around women's agency under the Islamic faith, and explore what Islam teaches about mental health and well being. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session or join us sober in the Sister Circle to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community do Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Kenesia, the.

Pleasure is mine. Absolutely feel honored to be here, So thank you for having us.

Oh, thank you so much. So can you talk to me about your journey through discovering Islam. Were you raised in the faith or is it something you discovered later?

So I was raised in the faith, born bred Muslim, grew up in a Muslim community, but I would say that I definitely discovered the religion in my early twenties. Is when I fell in love with the religion again and really understood what it means to be a Muslim and then what that essentially looks like as a black Muslim woman.

You're also the founder of Every Black Muslim Girl. Can you tell me what inspired you to create the platform?

So funnily enough, I used to hate telling this story, but now I tell it with so much story because I find it really funny. So growing up, I was always referred to as the Black Muslim Girl. So it would be do you know, teach the Black Muslim Girl, or it would be oh, the Black Muslim Girl, Yeah, I know her. And I didn't really see it as a thing until my late teenage years when I went into college in a different area that I grew up from. So I'm originally from London. I went to college in East London and I just constantly got questions on how I was black and Muslim. To a lot of people, it just didn't make sense, especially because I'm a visible Muslim woman. So it was like, oh, how are you black and Muslim and African? Like, how does that work? And the platform initially started as the Black Muslim Girl because that was what I was referred to, and then more recently we decided to change it over to Every Black Muslim Girl because it was more inclusive, and in that small name change from the black to every Black Muslim girl, We've seen a crazy amount of growth. It's like all of a sudden, people are like, oh, there's a platform for Black Muslim women. So that's the story behind it. I was just always referred to as Kadida the Black Muslim Girl.

And did you start it as a way to share your experiences and find community or something else?

So it's initially it started as a blog. Growing up, I had this really weird relationship with social media per se where I didn't like being perceived and I didn't want people to know my name. So I thought, Okay, I want to have a blog, but I don't want my actual name on the Internet. Let's just call it the Black Muslim Girl. And then from there it grew into a platform and I realized that, oh, there isn't actually a space for Black Muslim women. I struggled with finding Black Muslim women to make friends with other than my family members. I had no other Black Muslim women around me, and that's when I realized that there's a lack of community when it comes to Black Muslim women. It's either wearing black spaces and we're too Muslim, or wearing Muslim spaces and we're too black. So it was birth to almost serve the purpose of the intersection that we live with on a daily basis.

And you mentioned that you grew up in the faith, but that you reconnected with it later in life. Can you talk to me about that reconnection?

Ah, that is honestly the best thing that's ever happened to me. Wow, getting goosebumps thinking about it. So my dad has always been very no matter where you go in life, go with God, and he's always planted the seed of having faith in a lot in our hearts. And I think growing up in the West, there's so much going on. You're going to school, there's different thoughts and opinions and all of this kind of stuff. And I think, like I said, it wasn't until I was in my early twenties that I've made the conscious decision to go back and understand who Ala is. And I think I took a different route. So I wanted to understand the Lord that I was serving. Okay, you are my Lord? Who are you? And when I truly learned who he was and how magnificent he is. It made me fall in love with the religion all over again because it was like, oh, now I actually understand this thing that I'm doing, and I'm not doing it because it's something that's been passed on from parents and you're born into Islam, so you're naturally just the Muslims. Okay, I was given Islam. But now I understand it, I can fully welcome it into my life because I know the Lord that I'm serving. I understand the Lord that I'm serving, and I'm not serving from a point of this is just what I know, this is just what I've been given. Hither I'm serving from a place of I'm choosing to serve you now. And I think that definitely changed a lot for me. Changed my life, changed how I view things, changed, my mindset changed the smallest things like how I do business, the decisions that I make in my life. It all very much comes from a God conscious place and really rooting myself in faith.

And when you did reconnect it and you mentioned it sounds like everything shifted, like how you do business, and I would imagine there's some relationships you had probably also changed. Can you talk about the relationships and how they shifted with your change.

Definitely for the better. So I married, and I remember when it came to the time for me, like making the conscious decision of wanting to be married. That was definitely something that I know came from God. I always say that it's a God engineered love, which I feel like in my earlier years, when I didn't have that type of solid relationship with him, I probably wouldn't have made the decisions that I made when I was making the decision to get married, if that makes sense. I think it shifted even with friendships, the way that I'm dealing with friendships, the type of friends that I have around. I very much took a grace approach to all of the relationships that shifted. It wasn't oh, I'm on this journey now I can't be your friend anymore. You have to go, or we can't talk anymore. It was just very much, Okay, we're no longer in alignment. I'm growing differently, and I don't think I actually had conversations with people. I think naturally we just grew apart and we knew what it is. For a lot of my friends that I've grown apart from A still very much hold a lot of love for them. But I think that's what happened with relationships. There was just like a lack of alignment, and with time it just fizzled out because I was very conscious with who I had around me, what I have around me, who's talking to me, who am I talking to? So yeah, that's how it all went.

And for those who may be less familiar with Islam, can you talk about some of the fundamental teachings and values that are a part of Islam?

I would definitely say my favorite ones. And it's a value that I almost call it like a life value, right, It is to deal with things with love. Islam teaches us to deal with things from a place of love rather than from a place of harshness, which obviously isn't always what you see. But it just goes back to that one of my favorite quotes, which is Islam is perfect and the last paneta Alah tells us in the Qur'an that I have perfected this faith for you. So Islam is perfect, but Muslims aren't necessarily perfect. We're humans. We fall short. And when you go and study the life of the prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, you see how he teaches us to deal with people with situations, whether we're in the wrong or right, with love and with grace and with so much fairness. And I think that's one of my favorite fundamental values when it comes to Islam. How are we dealing with people, How are we speaking with people? Even like animals. There's so much care that's taken to animals, and I think that just comes from a level of God consciousness and understanding that this is a creation of God. Whether you're forward it against it, this is His creation, and you honor it in that way. So it really silly joke. But in our house we don't kill insects, right, Like, we have this rule where we don't kill insects, and it's literally because it's oh, this is something that God has created. Who am I to now come and kill this thing? So we'll usher it out. And I always say when people look at me and like what are you doing, I'm like no, because on the day that I do meet my Lord, I pray that this insect can interject for me and say, oh, Lord, like she showed me mercy, and the same mercy that I want to receive from my Lord is the same mercy that we should try and give to others. So that's definitely something that I know comes from what Islam has taught me, and not myself because it was myself or I'll be kidding them, they'll be gone. So yeah.

So there are a couple of terms that I feel like are definitely indigenous to Islam, but that I feel like I hear this in part culture or other people reference, and I wonder if you could define some of these for us so that we know what it is people are talking about. So the first one is haram.

Okay, So haram basically means prohibited. It's something that we have been prohibited to do. We shouldn't be doing it, eating it, taking part in it. To put in a simplest form, that's what it is.

Got it? Okay? What about Ramadan?

So Ramadan is one of the biggest months in the Islamic calendar. It's where we fast for thirty days. It's where for thirty days our whole life changes. Ramadan comes and everything is like wow, this is life, and then it goes and it's like, wow, I really need Ramadan. I like to call Ramadan the spiritual cleans. That's what it comes and does it gives you a nice spiritual cleanse. The things that you think matter no longer matter. You're connecting with your Lord on a deeper level, You're connecting with people on a deeper level. It's a spiritual cleans But essentially, it's a month in the Islamic calendar.

And is it the same month every year? A win?

Is it? No? So fun? Fact? Right, it actually goes up by ten days every year. So in twenty thirty, don't quote me, but I'm sure it's twenty thirty, Ramadan and Christmas and Eed are going to be on the same day because by then it would be Christmas. Yeah, so it goes up every year by ten days, ten days, ten days, and then it just continues, continues, continues, continues, gan it And what about id Ed is our festival. It's where we celebrate with our family and friends. So we do have to eat. We have the baby d which is the one that comes after Ramadan, straight after Ramadan, and that's just to celebrate that the thirty days has been completed, be fasted, let's get together have some fun. Then we have the big Ed that won lasts three days long either lead hair, and that's to mark the Islamic calendars come to an end, so we're starting again, and there's a lot of sentiments around this ed as well. Just before we have something called the day of Arafat where a lot of Muslims are going to be fasting the first ten days of the Hidja, which is an Islamic month. There's a lot of fasting that's happening. It's basically like a mini Ramadan. Again, a lot of people are trying to get their good deeds up. So that's what EAT is. It's our celebration where we come together, good vibes, good food, have.

Some fun exactly what about in Challah?

In cha Allah, this is a funny one. Actually, in Challah literally means by God's grace. It simply just means by God's grace. And as Muslims we are taught there's a verse in the Quran that says, and do not say you're going to do X, Y and Z tomorrow without saying in Challah, like, you don't have the power to be so certain that that thing is going to happen tomorrow. So bring God into it and let them know that by God's grace, because it is by his grace, You'll be doing X, Y, and Z tomorrow. And that's simply what in Challah means. You do find something funny with Lim sometimes sometimes want to be naughty and they use in Challah as a way to tell you, yeah, it's not happening, will be see tomorrow. Yeah, in Challah it's not. But yeah, that's what in Charlotte means by God's grace.

By the way, it reminds me of us saying my grandmother head, which was if God says the same, So it sounds.

Like literally what about alhamdu la la beautiful one that literally simply put it, it means all praises due to God, that ham did it lay say it in the good in the bad. The longer form is at ham de laire equally hand and that means all praises due to God in the good and the bad. It's one of my favorites. Saying it brings a lot of peace to your heart when you say it. It brings a lot of tranquility as well. Handed it lare when you just remember that, well, yeah, all praises due to God, Like I'm not worthy of being praised tears, So that's what I handed it lair means.

And what about our salama? Liacom So that's the one I feel like we've heard most of an outside of even Islam connections, So what does that actually mean?

Salam alekum. It's a beautiful saying and it's actually like a really beautiful way to greet people, and it means peace be onto you. And then the response, which is why kalmuslam means peace be onto you too to classen greed and that's how we signals that, like yeah, I got it. I remember I was in America last year October and one thing I've always said, right my UK people know this as well. One thing about America. You're going to go to America and their sisters are going to give their salams. They don't play. The sisters don't play when it comes to the salams. They are going to give you their salarms. In the UK not so much. You don't really hear it as much as you do in America, which I absolutely love. It's just like oh wow, people actually say something like whether they know you or not, and you get a response like someem. I remember the time I was in America. I went to Philly and I was just in the airport and the amount of salams that I got, I couldn't believe it. I literally messaged my friend like, am I in Saudi Arabia, like, Oh, what's happening? Because I don't get this many salams of the UK. So but yeah, that's what it means.

Get it, Okay? Can you talk about the practice of wearing a hi job? Oh?

My beautiful hey job. The other day I realized that I'm going to be selling in my twenty fifth year anniversary of wearing the hijab next year. So I've worn the hijab my whole life. And essentially the teacher behind it is that a last Paneta Alah tells the women in Sorda and Lissa, the chapter in the Quran that speaks to the women. He tells us, draw your veils to cover your chesteria and your bosom. Right, So the teacher behind it is that your beauty isn't for everyone. That's for the people at home, for your loved ones. Dress modestly, cover yourself up. And that is the basic teaching of why we wear a hijab. Now, there's different levels of hijab. This is like the very simple basic level one hijab that I got on right now. You obviously see some sisters that will wear a remar or a jellabia is from top to bottom like all in one. That's like a level above because they're just covering everything. Then you get some sisters that wear the in a pub which covers their face the veil. But yeah, there's different levels to hijab. And one thing I do want to say which people really tend to speak on, is that hijab is not just for women. His jab is actually prescribed both for men and women, but it just shows up differently for the men. But so the men also have a hijab that is prescribed upon them as well, and a modesty that they have to carry as well. But that's basically the teaching behind it.

So have you worn a hi job kind of all throughout life as long as you were old? Like did your parents dress you in one? Even before you were deciding your own clothing. Because I've seen tiktoks and like other social media videos where people have now decided to wear the hijab, and it feels like it's a very emotional experience for the family. So it is something that you can, like you are not a practicing Muslim just because you don't wear a h job one.

Hundred percent hand Laa. I am surrounded by a lot of Muslim women, a lot of Muslim women, women that wear the hijab and women that don't wear the hijab. And in my time, I've seen women that don't wear the hijab that their relationship with our law beautiful, right, And I've seen women that do wear hijab and their relationship with our law isn't as strong. So your level of spirituality is not judged by your hijab, and it should never be because the last panata Allah tells us that he looks like what's in our hearts. Obviously, yes, you want to try your best to do what is most pleasing to him. But then at the same time, I think I've learned to personally deal with this situation from a place of grace and understanding that some people just struggle with it. That's the struggle that Allah has given them, Like that's their test, right, some people find it so much easier to do, but then they struggle with praying five times a day, right, But as long as there's that grace and that understanding that okay, Inshallah. By God's grace, she will get there one day. So yeah, I've won it. My whole life. We start nursery in this country, so nursery is kindergarten. I believe someone were like three years old. So I've had the hir job on from them and there's been no going back. I don't know my life without my hair job. I can't imagine a life without my hit job. So yeah, Dr Joe, I'll be inviting you to my twenty fifth celebration because five years straight. I'st movement.

It isn't something that you wear publicly, like just when you are outside of your house or like if you are having like let's say an e celebration with your family at home, would you have your hir job on or no.

So the ruling off hit jab is that when you are around men who are not your maham, and maham is men within your your family, the men that essentially protect you. Right you becovered, you wear your hirjab when you are around you're mad him. So that's my brothers, my husband, my father. I don't have to wear my headge app but outside, yeah, I wear it on a daily basis different colors. I was telling the ladies the other day that you have to just think of it as a bust down weeds, like you can do it right now. I feel like I've even got a middle part and going on. You can do a little. You could play around with it and make it work. And I think that's what helped me, playing around with it, playing around with the fabric, and just falling in love with it all over again. I think that's what's helped me keep it on for so long.

So you've mentioned that as a part of Ramadan, and even before that, people do a period of fasting. Can you talk about the importance of fast thing in Islam.

One of the main importances of fasting is it teaches you discipline, because when you're fasting, there's a level of God consciousness that you have that you don't have when you're not fasting. Because you know that you're fasting, there's things that you would probably want to do on a normal day and you're like, I can't do that. I'm fasting. Whether it's like the smallest thing of getting angry or speaking harshly, like you remind yourself, let me swallow that back in and fasting, So, yeah, it teaches you discipline. A lot of people like to say, oh, yeah, we fast because it teaches us about how the poor feel, and that's not the main reason as to why we fast. And there's so much more to fast and than just that element of It teaches you discipline and it brings a level of God consciousness to you that you wouldn't have on a normal day.

And so is the process about definitely not like eating? But are there other things that you're also adding to your schedule in addition to the fast thing? Can you talk about that?

It goes beyond not just eating. The funny thing is the not eating part is the easiest part. It is the easiest part because the moment you start fasting, it's like a mirror is placed in front of you and you actually get to see all of your bad habits. You get to see all of the things that you're doing that you shouldn't be doing, and fast in reminds you, oh, I shouldn't be doing that, so I'm not going to do it. The not eating part is literally light work. It is the easiest part of it. It's the desires that's where it gets hard. Then given into the desires that you know you shouldn't be given into and restraining yourself from those desires. That is what fasten does. It teaches you how to not give into those desires that you should not be given into. Whatever that desire looks like to you.

Got it? And what would you say could be the benefit for even non Muslims for fasting?

Personally? I think discipline. If you want to get disciplined in your life, fast fast. I try to fast outside of Ramadan as well, so I've made fast in a habit regardless of whether it's Ramadan or not. I try my best to fast, and the main reason why I do it is because it disciplined me. When I know I'm fasting, I'm on my a game. I'm being careful of what I'm saying, I'm being careful of what I'm listening to, and being really careful of how I'm using my time, what am I dedicating my time to? Am I wasting my time or not? Other than that, the multiple of various health benefits that it comes with in terms of just giving your body that time to just regulate and cleanse, and other than that, I think from a mental and a productivity perspective, fasting is the best thing that anybody can do for themselves. The amount of discipline that you get from fasting is crazy, Like I know that when I'm going on a bit of a dip, it's like, Okay, we need to get back into fasting, Like get on your zoom, get on your A game. You need to be fasting. So sometimes I do the Fast of that, which is the Fast of David. So it's one day on, one day off, one day on, one day off, and again. It just it brings even a level of self consciousness as well, because you're able to see where you fall sure and how you're dealing even with yourself. So yeah, definitely recommend fast into every and anyone that can do it.

What would you say are some of the biggest misconceptions about being a Muslim?

Oh? I think one that Islam isn't a religion of peace. I feel like a lot of people don't understand the religion. Unfortunately, they don't understand the religion, and because they don't understand the religion, they don't understand us as Muslims. One of the biggest misconceptions of being a black Muslim woman is always that we were never born into the religion. It's always that we converted. So the question is always, so, when did you convert into Islam? Straight off of the back, like if you're having a conversation with a non black Muslim person, it's straight Also when did you come to Islam? And the answer is always when did you come into Islam? When did you come into Islam? You know, I'd say that as well. And then I think it would be that we don't live normal lives. I think a lot of people think we're like we're it's like, we do normal things, we live normal lives like you. It's not all that different. I mean, there's obviously things that we don't do because it's prohibited. It's hard. We live life a certain way, but that doesn't make me any less of a woman. I'm still very much intact on what's going on. So I think that's what I would say.

The third one is m hm, and can you talk more about the misconception about Islam not being a religion of peace? What's the confusion there.

I think there's a lot of stereotypes when it comes to being Muslims, and it's oh, okay, he's a Muslim, he's got a bed on. We know exactly who he is, we know exactly what he's up to, we know what he's going to do, which is literally the furthest thing from the truth. It's literally the furthest thing from who we are as a oumah with auma means nations. It's the furthest thing from who we are. It's the furthest thing from our truth. It's the furthest thing from our are teaching. And that's why when you ask me about the foundations, I mentioned love, because that's who we are. We are taught to deal with people with love. We are taught to deal with people with justice. We are taught to deal with people with grace and with peace. But the narrative that you see on social media, on the news is the furthest thing from the truth. And I think that's where the misunderstanding comes from, because, like I said, people don't understand this Lam. People don't take their time to understand this Lam. And because they don't understand the religion, they don't understand us as Muslims, and that chickles down in many forms. That was like an extreme form, but a less extreme form is oh, I can't eat that because it's not Hellad and not having it in them to cater to Muslims. Very quick story. The other day, I was actually end of term. Colleagues wanted to go out. They wanted to go to a pub. Now I ain't gone to no pub. Okay, whether or not I'm drinking, I'm not going to the pub. It's just not a place that I would want to be as a Muslim woman, as a visible Muslim woman, And a lot of them just didn't understand that. It was like, oh, but you're not drinking. I don't want to go to the pub. And I was almost made to seem like I was. I got called a party pooper. I was being gas lit, and it was like, why can't you just take my no for no, I don't want to go to the pub? Is I don't want to go to the pub. But then upon reflection, I just realized this, because you don't understand my lifestyle as a Muslim. You don't understand Islam, So me saying I don't want to go to the pub is a big deal for you. But if you just took the time to understand why I don't want to go to the pub, you wouldn't be arguing with me. Furthermore, regardless of whether you understand or you shouldn't be arguing with me, but I recognize that it comes from a place of ignorance.

Yeah, more from our conversation after the break, but first, a quick snippet of what's coming next week on TVG.

It's good for you to know what it's like to be high in business, and it's good for you to know what it's like to be low. I'm a deep believer in experience, because that's really our best teacher. This work that I personally do is very much my life's work. The humans that we serve I take it very seriously. I take it very personal. I am very devoted to them. And so when you're in a place of scrutiny where you've got millions of people saying that you're trying to do the.

Opposite, that's hard.

But I also am grateful that it happened, because it only makes you stronger.

So for people who are interested in learning more, Let's say somebody is enjoying our conversation and thinking of exploring, like, do I want to convert to Islam? What would be some resources you would point in people to to learn more.

Definitely start with understanding who a art is. There's no Islam about our understand who he is. Jaquine Institute, which was founded I believe by doctor oh Marcelo Martin, beautiful platform. Whether you're in the beginning stages, whether you're heavily into it, whether you're in the middle, there's something there for you. You can find them on YouTube. His lectures are beautiful and I recommend them for the everyday Muslim like people that are just really trying to connect or people that just want to understand Islam. Yaquin Institute do an amazing job at that. We also have doctor Abdullah Adoro who is a revert and his journey to Islam is absolutely beautiful. So there's people that you can see some of your journey in as well, if that's what you're looking for shamelessly going to plug every black Muslim girl. We do a lot for our sisters that are interested in Islam and new reverts. We have mini community just for them where they can questions without feeling like they're asking like word questions or wrong questions and all of that kind of stuff. And then I would definitely say pick up the English Qoran, the Oxford English Quran to be precise, that one has been translated but with modern day English, so it's very very easy to understand, and that Quran has changed my life as a born into Islam woman. But don't feel the pressure to read and understand. I always tell people read and let his words settle into your heart. Whatever it is, let his words settle into your heart and take it from there.

So you mentioned that a part of the reason why you started Every Black Muslim Girl is because you always felt like there were spaces for Muslims, but not like you were too black. So can you talk a little bit about some of the discrimination maybe you've experienced at the hands of non black Muslims and how you've dealt with that.

So, Yeah, like I said earlier, it's always when was you born into Islam? And then you tell them that you're not born into Islam and it's oh, so where are you from? Or the one that I now find like absolutely hilarious, and for the past I don't know seven years, I literally flip it back on them is are you Muslim? I always get non black Muslims that ask me, am I Muslim? And it is the most irritating question you can ever ask, kidija, because I have a hijob on my head, and before I used to say, oh, yeah, I am Muslim, and then when I realized that, no, actually, you clearly don't see me as a Muslim because of the color of my skin. That's why you're asking me this question with so much joy. I always ask them if their mum is Muslim, and they always are startled. Also, ah, sister, are you Muslim? Are you Muslim? Is your Mumuslim? And it's like, yeah, she is, Okay, so then why are you asking me that silly question? And after some time it can become really irritating. It can become really really irritating because you realize that, Okay, you see my skin first, that's what you see first. As a visible Muslim woman, you don't even see the hijab. As a Muslim, I would expect you to see my hijab first, but you don't see that first. You see my skin color first. And it's just things like that, the underestimating the amount of knowledge that you have in the religion. It's a lot of just microagression, not understanding that there's certain things within my culture as a West African Muslim that is not her arm. But because it doesn't fit your narrative of what Islam looks like, you're quick to tell me that it's hard arm, but it's just not your culture and that's okay. And I think that's why EBMG as a platform is so important. And every single day I realize how important it is. I've been doing it now this is going to be my seventh year or my sixth year. I can't actually remember I've been doing I started when I was really younger as well. I think I was only twenty twenty one when I started. But every day I just realized that, wow, Kidjia, you can't give up on this space because it's very much needed. Yeah. So that is what we get, the tedious questions, the microaggression, the racism, the even when it comes to reading Quran and being able to read the Quran the way that we're taught to read the Quran, you get people that will make comments like, oh my gosh, don't judge a book by his front cover? What does that mean? What does that mean? Okay, so this front cover is black, does that mean I can't fee the Quran? Get it together? So yeah, It's just things like that that can definitely have an effect on one's identity the way that one views themselves in the faith as well. And that is why again spaces like EBMG are so important because it's like, you can come here as a black Muslim woman, this is your safe space.

Can you talk more? You mentioned something about there are certain things because you are a West African Muslim that are different about the ways maybe other Muslims might practice. You say more about that.

So a big one actually, which is really funny, is outfits, so modesty, the way that we dress. A lot of people tend to I don't know if you've seen it, but a lot of Muslim women wear something called an abaya and it's like a long dressed like flowy sleeves. It's very very elegant. However, and a baya is not Islamic attire, and a baya is actually Arab traditional wear. So when you go to the Middle East, ninety percent of the women you will find there will be in a baya because that is their traditional where. However, with time is transcended and a lot of people think that, oh I'm a Mudlim woman, I must wear an a bayer the word a baya is not actually in the coron at all. Okay, So when Allah tells us to cover ourselves, he doesn't actually say cover yourself in a bayer. He says, cover yourself in a jellabia. Draw your cloak across your body. Now, when we move towards West Africa, we don't have a bay in West Africa. Now we do, but it's not our traditional wear. It's not our traditional modest wear. My mother's, our aunties and grandma's and the movement that came many many years before us. They wear something called a booble right, and it's literally this big dress, flowy free, elegant, royal, and it comes in different colors, it comes with different patterns. And you'll get people that would say, oh no, but that doesn't fit the requirements of Islam. Why doesn't it fit the requirements of his lab because modest, it's covering me. You cannot see my shape, which is part of our modesty, like you don't just where your figure is being seen. Why is it not allowed? Why can I not wear it? And again it just goes to that the misconception, the ignorance and the lack of understanding of what it means to be a West African Muslim per se. So yeah, it's literally small things like that. That's some people be like, oh, but that's not part of Islam. Neither is there a bio if you do your research.

But hey, more from our conversation after the break. So some of the criticism I've seen most often is around and again I think this is a lack of people understanding what Islam teaches. You mentioned the comment that one of the purposes of the hijab is to cover yourself when you are not in the presence of men who can protect you. And I think other people would say, well, what are the men doing so that they are not like looking at you in ways that are not appropriate. So I think there's a question around women's agency and you know, like, okay, you're having to cover this and what decisions can you make? Can you shed some light on them for us, for people to maybe understand better.

So I think one of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to Islam is that Muslim women are oppressed. Now, I had to tell everybody that is going to listen to this that that is the furthest thing from the truth, right. The beauty of Islam is that the women have a role to play and the men have a role to play. And Allah has created those roles as he see fits. There's some things that we don't just question. Submit now, we listen and we obey. Now to a lot of people, like you said, that comes across as all women can't do this and women can't do that. But I think and I don't know why that is a lot of light is shown in that direction, but it's never shown in the direction of the things that men also aren't allowed to do or the way that men are taught to operate around women. Right we serve Aladdin, that is one of our law's name, the just. He is very fair in what he has prescribed to us. And if our last panta Alah has told us well as a woman, I don't want you do in X, Y and Z, we believe and we know that it is for the better. There is nothing that a last anata alert has told us that goes against our safety or our protection or the way that he wants us to live. Whatever it is that he's told us is for the best now, rightly, so, there's a lot of people that don't see it that way, Like you said, women's agency, they can't make decisions for themselves and all of that kind of stuff. But like I said, women in Islam have a lot of rights, a lot of rights. Women are placed above men in Islam. The mother is placed above the men, or are placed above the father three times in Islam. That the rights that a man has upon a woman is you don't get it anywhere else, right, So I feel like people pick and choose when they want to be fine with women in Islam because the women, I say, oh, but as a Muslim woman, my man's money is my money and my money is my money. Everyone is like, oh, okay, that sounds good, now, okay, right, So I feel like people literally pick and choose when the narrative suit to them. But as Muslim women, we understand that the laws and the things that a lust pantala has put in place for us is for our own benefit, and we understand that we appreciate it and we love it. And the same goes for Muslim men. There's things that are put in place for them as well. So to answer the question of oh, what's being done to the men, Like why can't the men stop looking at you? Muslim Men are taught to lower their gates. That is a fundamental part of being a Muslim Man, being a Muslim in general. But muslim Men are taught to lower their gays and lowering their gaze means when you're walking, you're not walking aimlessly, you're not walking without purpose, You're not being a tennis ball, and your eyes are literally everywhere you're walking, and you have higher to you. You're given higher which means modesty for the lack of a better words, You're showing that respect to those around. You're not just staring at people. So there's definitely things that are put in place for the men as well. Like I said, I feel like when it comes to this topic, people can choose what suits the narrative that they're trying to run with.

So you talked a little bit about this, but it definitely is I think like growing anti Muslim sentiment, and you mentioned like it can chip away your self esteem and really have some impacts on your mental health. Can you talk about suggestions for people about like how to navigate some of this anti Muslim sentiment.

I think the first thing would be to understand and to know that you are very much here and you are very much a part of this religion because a Lot has chosen you to be And that is the most important thing that goes further than anything anybody has to say. You are here because He's chosen you to be here. And the second thing, which I think is really important, is understanding that you are worthy of being here, regardless of what that looks like to anybody. You're worthy of being here. You're worthy of calling yourself a Muslim because a Lot has chosen you to be amongst the people that call themselves a Muslim. So when you look at it from that perspective, oh, oh my gosh, my Lord has chosen me. This is what he has chosen for me. You don't give into what everybody else has to say, because it's like we're on the same plain level field me. Whether you think it or not, we are because a Lot doesn't tell me that, Oh, on the day of judgment, I'm going to put the Blacks here and the Arabs there and the agents there, and that's how I'm going to judge you. He doesn't say that. What he actually does say in the Quran is I created you in different tribes so that you may get to know one another. So there's a beauty in the way that He's created us differently. So I think understanding that you're very much worthy of being in this space, you've been chosen to be in this space will definitely help you get through that and going back and learning Islam again, so you're not actually adopting Islam from a Middle Eastern perspective. You're not adopting Islam from Arab culture, which I think a lot of people struggle with. A lot of people don't know the difference between what is Arab culture and what is Islam. And I think when you go and learn Islam, you let go of arid culture because it's not your culture. You don't need to be holding onto it respectfully. And I think when you do that, you're able to build confidence in yourself. So when you are talking to people, you know exactly what you're saying because this is your religion too, and sometimes you know more than them. So those will be the three things that I would.

Say thank you for there. So what kinds of things would you suggest to non Muslim support systems to support practicing Muslims around, like celebrating your holidays and like just general support. What kinds of things would you suggest?

So I don't like quiet allies. If you're going to be an ally, I need you to speak up. Yeah, speak up when you see an injustice. Don't be afraid. You've actually got the voice, so use it. We don't always have that voice, So where you can be the voice, please feel free to use it. And then another thing support for me, I think would be understanding. I think that's the biggest form of support. Understanding someone. So just taking the time out to understand your Muslim colleagues. Oh okay, so this Ramadan? What does that look like for you? What does that mean? And how can we tailor the day to match your needs and all of that kind of stuff. I think understanding I think you can't support someone without understanding them. In order for you to support, you need to understand. So just taking the time out to understand them and even asking them a question like, okay, so can you tell me a little bit more about your beliefs? And a lot of Muslims are open to answering questions. I've got a work colleague that literally asked me a new question every single day. So why do you where they hit are? Do you want a home, So what do you eat? And I love it because I know that it's not coming from a place of ignorance, it's just coming from a place of cure understanding. She just wants to understand. So, yeah, take the interest in just understanding your colleagues.

And what would you say, Islam's teaching have taught you about what it means to be well.

I think one of the main things that's taught me about what it means to be well is that ser myself is an act of ibada, and ibada means worship. So serving myself is an act of serving the Lord, that is an act of serving God. Looking after myself is an act of serving God because I'm looking after what he has given me and taking care of what he has given me. I think that's one of the biggest things that it's taught me, that self care is actually a form of worship. Taking the time to reregulate, get yourself back together again, breathe, whether it's journaling, whatever it is that you do, is a form of worship because you are essentially looking after what he's given you. You're showing him that appreciation of Oh, thank you, You've given me this thing I'm going to take care of it to the best of my ability.

That's beautiful, Thank you for that. I'm curious, Kadiji. Is there the same tension sometimes? I think in like Christian spaces, there's this tension between like spirituality and mental health, like, oh, you can't talk with the therapist because you know you can pray. Is there there the same tension in Islam?

Yes, we do have people that have that thought of, oh, well, how can you be depressed when you have a lot And again, a lot of these things just come from the lack of understanding when you go when you learn the religion, you see that, Oh okay, so depression is a thing. The prophet Mohammed son Allah, and it was still am piece upon him. He went through a phase of where he was depressed and Allah sent him down a specific sour like I haven't forgotten you. I'm still here. I'm still very much here. So I think, yes, that tension is there, and I think as of recent people are starting to see that, oh okay, I can actually be a person of faith and I can be depressed and I can struggle with mental health. That doesn't mean that I'm no longer a person of faith, and it also doesn't mean that I don't trust a laugh. That's something that I like to speak a lot. So I've got a newsletter and it's one of the things that I like to speak a lot about to the women on there is that mental wellness and your mental health isn't judged by your level of faith, and your level of faith isn't judged by your mental health and your mental illness both can exist. And I've been through my own journey of dealing with severe depression and still having so much faith, and it was being able to say, Okay, Kadija, this is what this is. This is what you're going through, but you still have faith. You're not questioning your faith. You're just in a space right now where you need to deal with yourself a little bit more differently. And I think again that's where grace comes in. So yeah, there is that tension of all about how can you be depressed in And I think it's because people don't actually understand what depression is. They just think that pression means, oh, I'm sad, right, So it's like, okay, but how can you be sad if you trust God? Because if you trust God, then you won't be sad. But if he actually understood what these mental health conditions are, then you'll be able to show more grace to it because you will understand that. Oh Okay, like I said, depression has nothing to do with my love and of faith in God. I can very much trust Him with everything I have and still be depressed. I can very much trust God and still have bipolar. I can very much trust God and still struggle with mental That literally has nothing to do with my live and of faith. But I again, I just think it boils down to lack of understanding.

Well, thank you so much for that, Kadiza. Where can people stay connected with you and everything that's happening at Every Black Muslim girl.

First and foremost, you can stay connected with my baby, Every Black Muslim girl that's my firstborn, absolutely love her. We have an amazing community in America. Must I say my UK guys, they know that I am for the Americans. I am for the Americans. You are my people. Yeah, you can stay tuned with us and every black Muslim girl were coming out to New York soon and shut a lie, So yeah, feel free to come along and see what we're doing. You can find me at It's kadijb on Instagram. So yeah, I'd love to speak with you guys.

We'll be sure to include all of that in this show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I appreciate it.

Oh, the pleasure of mine has actually been a beautiful conversation and like I said, it's an honor to be here. So so thank you so much. Ernie. Yeah, a big good onto you for the work that you're doing for black women. It's amazing, it's important, it's needed, and we see Feelia and we love you.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

You're welcome.

I'm so glad Kadija was able to join me for this conversation. To learn more about her and her work, be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot Com slash Session three eighty three, and don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters. Come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet, designed just for black women. You can join us at Community dot Therapy for blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,

Therapy for Black Girls

The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
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