Session 379: Domestic Violence & Coping With Triggers

Published Oct 2, 2024, 7:00 AM

Unfortunately, it feels like every day there is a new incident of domestic abuse that happens to unfold all over our social media timelines, and with it, the potential to encounter violent footage or hear various arguments in support of the abuser. For survivors of domestic violence, it can be difficult to avoid and then cope with being exposed to such triggering content. Joining me today to discuss domestic violence and retraumatization is registered social worker, therapist, content creator, and speaker, Simone Saunders. Simone is the founder and director of The Cognitive Corner, a culturally responsive and trauma-informed group practice. 

During our conversation we discussed what retraumatization means and how it manifests itself both mentally and physically, how to practice social media self-care when a triggering incident hits your timeline, and changing the way we discuss domestic violence to be more considerate of survivors.

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The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session three seventy nine of the Me for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after word from our sponsors.

Hi, I'm Someone Sonders and I'm on the Therapy for Black Girl's podcast. I'm in session today unpacking domestic violence and retraumatization.

Unfortunately, it feels like every day there's a new incident of domestic abuse that happens to unfold all over our social media timelines, and with it the potential to encounter violent footage or hear various arguments in support of the abuser. For survivors of domestic violence, it can be difficult to avoid and then find ways to cope with being exposed to such triggering content. Joining me today to discuss domestic violence and retraumatization is registered social worker, therapist, content creator, and speaker Simone Saunders. As the founder and director of the Cognitive Corner, a culturally responsive and trauma informed group practice, she's dedicated to fostering mental health awarners and destigmatizing mental health issues within bipod communities. During our conversation, we discuss what retraumatization means and how it manifests itself both mentally and physically, how to practice social media self care when a triggering incident hits your timeline, and changing the way we discuss domestic violence to be more considerate of survivors. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag tpg in session or join us over in the Sister Circle Let's talk more about the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy for blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Somone, Thank.

You for having me I'm so excited.

Yeah. So, I know many people may know you from TikTok and the work that you do sharing information about mental health and your practice, But can you say a little bit more about the work that you do.

Yeah?

Absolutely.

So I am from Great Alberta, Canada, and so I have a group psychological practice here that's focused on trauma informed and culturally responsive care. So we provide therapy throughout Canada, and then on the social media side of things, I provide a lot of psycho education about different topics and just insight into therapy, being a therapist, all of that.

Kind of stuff.

Got it. So you mentioned a word that I would love for us to dig a little bit more into. So you said that your practice is trauma informed. What does that mean when you say that?

Yeah, so, I think it's just the outlook that regardless of who we interact with, we have to understand that this person may have encountered traumatic experiences in their life and that is likely going to shape the way that they show up in the world. And so from a practice standpoint, we need to really understand, Okay, we need to provide as much flexibility as we can. We need to provide as much communication as we can. We need to try and provide as stable of an environment as we can in order to facilitate some of those pieces, because that stability and security is really important for folks who have endured trauma.

And can you say more about what that looks like in practice.

Yeah.

So, for example, we recently moved office locations in January, and so knowing that that was coming up, I made sure that I sent out a lot of different email reminders around Okay, we are moving and talking to my clients in person and reminding them and processing this is going to be our second last session or this is our last session in this space. And so I got feedback from different clients saying, like, I got so many emails about you moving and stuff like that. And then when we're actually in the space, for a lot of people that are like, I didn't expect it to feel the way that it felt. I didn't expect to feel like I'm grieving the old office space.

Even with all.

The reminders and all of the sort of processing, that still has an emotional impact. And so without those things, I can imagine how that would have landed for a lot of people.

Yeah, so it's taking into account all of these things that we may not think about on a conscious level, but that can actually be really important for people who have experienced trauma.

Absolutely.

Yeah, So someone, I wonder if you could say a little bit about how you started making mental health information for Tiktak.

Yeah.

So initially I started over on Instagram and it was just psycho educational infographics and so I was on the platform a little bit and decided to just take the jump and start making videos. And so it did really well initially when I first started, and I grew quite quickly. The feedback that I've gotten is that it's nice to be able to sort of break down some of the mental health topics that I think there is often a lot of clinical jargon that's associated with mental health topics and makes it difficult for folks to understand if they're not in the mental health field, and sometimes even if you are in the mental health field. So I think it's been nice for folks to really understand what could be going on with them and also have a community of people, whether it's in the comments or people stitching the video or whatnot to say like, oh, I experienced this too, and know that they're not alone in a lot of those different experiences.

So one of your recent videos that we wanted to talk more about was a video about retraumatization, and I wonder if you could say what retraumatization is, and especially Wooden means in the context of domestic violence.

So retraumatization is essentially when you're re exposed to whether it's a situation that is similar to a trauma that you've experienced or just triggers a lot of those sort of emotional memories, and then you experience similar trauma symptoms in that moment. As it relates to domestic violence, if you've been through a violent relationship and say seeing violence on social media or that being talked about, then that can also trigger that for some people as well.

And can you talk about the mental and the physical impact that somebody might experience as a results of retraumatization.

Yeah, absolutely, so.

I think a lot of times when we think about trauma, we don't necessarily think about the physiological impacts in the moment. Some of the things that you might notice in your bodies, maybe your temperature really goes up, maybe your heart starts beating really fast, maybe you feel a little bit more disconnected from your experience. Maybe it's more of an overwhelming emotional experience, or you might be crying, you might feel like you're having a panic attack, all of those different things. So it's really taking your nervous system outside. It's what's called window of tolerance, which is your state of regulation.

Got it. And when you think about the work that you do aspectually with domestic violence survivors, what does it look like to do that work from a trauma inform place versus maybe other therapeutic approaches.

Yeah, So I think, especially if we're speaking about domestic violence, but just trauma generally, I think trauma has a profound impact on relationships, and so the therapeutic relationship in any context is really important. So I devote time to building that sort of safety within the therapeutic relationship so that we can explore some of these more vulnerable things. So I think that period of time in the beginning especially is really important to lay that foundation and then slowly dipping our toes into the trauma and really understanding the client's tolerance for some of those pieces and making sure that you're never pushing too far, you're never crossing any boundaries and that the client always feels like they have autonomy and that experience.

So one can you say more about what it means to be sure that you're not pushing too far, because I don't know that everybody always understands what are we assessing for as therapists to know, Okay, this is probably not a line I want to cross.

Yeah, So whenever I teach about the nervous system and the window of tolerance, and again to clarify the window of tolerance as start of your state we're able to think and feel at the same time, you feel generally regulated. So I think pushing them too far would be pushing them way outside of their window of tolerance. And so I think sometimes maybe from an outside perspective, if someone is maybe like retelling a trauma story and they're extremely emotional, that might on the outside look like, Okay, that's really cathartic. That might be really good for them. But I think as a therapist you really have to understand what is helpful and are they going to process and integrate them information or what is then re traumatizing because they're retelling the story and they're re experiencing all of those symptoms and they're feelings sort of like raw and opened up after.

What kind of work would you maybe do, Like if you notice that happening with somebody, backtrack and get them ready to be able to maybe approach that work at some point in the future.

I think Number one, I try and call attention to some of these things. So the way that I generally work with clients is I like for it to be really collaborative, So I always sort of tell them what my plan is, what I'm doing in the very beginning of working together. I'll let them know like, hey, you know, I will always be curious about what's happening for you internally, and I might ask you if I can share some of the things that I notice. And so if I'm noticing that, oh, I wonder if maybe they're starting to get a little bit too dysregulated, I might point a few things out, and before that, I might engage in different grounding strategies that might be as simple as asking them if they're thirsty, which allows them to come back too, Oh, I need to understand am I thirsty?

Is my mouth dry?

And it allows them to come back to the present, and eventually I'll explain this is some of the things that I'm noticing, and it's a slower process of can we di bertoe and how far can we di berteu? And can we dip it a little bit further after while still maintaining that sense of safety.

Got it?

Got it.

So one of the things that we talked about a little bit, and I know you see this all online is conversations around triggers and what if people do when they're triggered. And so when you're working with clients who experience retraumatization, do you typically advise them to avoid the triggers entirely or typically are you giving them strategies to cope with triggers.

I think that it really is dependent on the situation, but I would say it's a little bit of both. I don't think ultimately it's helpful to just completely avoid triggers, but I think that if you know that you're in quite a vulnerable state and something that is obviously going to trigger you and put you into a shutdown or something like that, then I would say maybe leave that. But also I think it's important to prepare for triggers because they can sometimes just come out of nowhere. So if there's situations where you know that, Okay, this might be triggering, but this is something I'm going to engage in anyways, then how do we prepare for that? And in other situations, does it feel helpful or do you need to engage in this knowing that it might be triggering? And if not, then that's also okay to take a step back.

And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about people's experience being online, because I know a lot of times there will be some violent footage of police brutality or other people's domestic violence situations, and you don't maybe necessarily know that you're gonna come upon this. What kinds of strategies would you suggest for people for how they navigate these kinds of situations online.

Yeah, absolutely, I agree.

I think that there's definitely a lot of stuff online and we're exposed to more information than I think we ever have, and so I always say practice social media self care. And so if certain pages tend to post a lot of these graphs things and that's something that tends to be triggering for you, then I would say, number one, maybe decide when you're actually going to access that page rather than having it come up on your news feed, so you can easily mute an account and then decide okay. At this point in time, I feel regulated enough to access and take a look through some of these things, and I know what strategies I have in order to help regulate myself in the event.

That I do get triggered.

And I think there's other times where you can't necessarily control what kind of comes up on your news feed, and I think in those instances, again, just having a toolbox of strategies of okay, maybe I need to debrief with a friend about this. Maybe I need to take a little bit of a social media break. Maybe I need to talk with my therapist about this. Maybe I need to ground myself in some capacity.

I'm glad you shared that because that was my next question, like, if you do encounter some of these videos that maybe are activating for you, what kinds of things can you do to take care of yourself in the aftermath. So you've talked about maybe talking with a therapist, talking with a friend, other other things you would suggest.

What I do notice from some folks is that there can be an inclination to continually expose yourself. So if you notice one story or one real or whatever it might be, of a specific incident and then sort of going down the rabbit hole, not knowing that that's just activating you further. And so I think the general practice of checking in with yourself is also really helpful to know where am I at with this? And Okay, I just watched something that was a little bit activating. Is it to the point where, even though I want to look into more information about that, would that be helpful? Do I need to take a step back and take a break. And so I think really checking in into tuning with yourself as far as where you're at is helpful as well.

More from our conversation after the break, But first, a quick snippet of what's coming next week on TVG. So.

I'm studying their voice. I'm studying their breathing patterns. I'm studying whether or not they use longer short sentences. I'm studying whether they're clever and witty or whether they're polished and professional, whether they're the you or the girlfriend next door? Are there any unique phases or jokes that your audience knows is related directed to you?

And then from.

There we produce the document and the best part is actually watching the client execute, whether it's the speech on a stage, whether it's the book tour that they start or launch, whether it's the published article, whether it's on the personal blog or LinkedIn or a big publication. I'm in the business of making dreams contrue and that's what really makes me happy.

And what kinds of things might we've been able to do as a friend or a loved one for somebody who maybe has been triggered by either something they saw online or in another place. What kinds of support can we offer?

I think often just being a listening air and empathizing and validating what has happened for the person can be really helpful. I think that if you're in person, sometimes like physical touch can be really grounding, sometimes just like the physical presence of another person. So I think really, when we tend to get triggered, then what we really are needing is that safety and stability to come back to again. And so if our friend or a family member, whoever it is, can be that person just to provide that safety and stability, then a lot of times people are able to come back down.

So well, can you talk a little bit more about trigger warnings because I think that is something that we have begun to see in the past couple of years, right, like information about what you're going to watch in a video before you maybe play it. Can you talk a little bit about why those kinds of warnings are important.

Yeah, I think it's important because we see so much on social media, We consume so much, and I think social media in a sense has desensitized us a little bit to a lot of the things that are going on in the world. And because we consume so much information, and I think sometimes it can feel normal to come across things like violence, whether it's violence and a political landscape, violence within relationships and family. And so I think that trigger warnings really help people navigating social media and take that break to decide, Okay, knowing that this might be triggering, do I want to go forth and still watch this video? And it gives them that pause rather than unknowingly coming across us feeling triggered, feeling activated, and then so you're sort of left to clean that up.

You know. One case someone that I know you've talked about that was all over people's timelines was Meg the Stallion's case with Tory Lane's right. So there was all this evidence about him shooting her, and yet there was still a lot of support. Did this really happen? And would did she kind of thing?

Right?

And I think for a lot of people, especially for a lot of black women, that was very activating right to see people so vehemently continue to support him even in the face of like very clear evidence. I wonder if you could say a little bit about out one, like, how do you take care of yourself if you are somebody who has experienced a domestic violence kind of situation, And how do you like navigate conversations either online or in real life, especially if maybe a lot of people don't even know that something like this has happened to you.

Number one, having safe people, whether that is a professional or family, friends, partner, but navigating that in a way of understanding that, I think.

A lot of grief comes up.

So speaking about that incidance specifically, I think one of the most difficult things for black women watching that was the grief of the black woman experience not necessarily being believed or downplayed or ridiculed, made fun of, all of those different things. And I think whether or not you have actually had experience with domestic violence or violence in that way, I think a lot of people can relate to the feeling of not being heard, being ridiculed, being passed by, and all those different things. So I think number one, having sort of a safe space safe relationships can be really helpful. I think also talking about these things with other people, and you don't necessarily have to share your own experience, but you can talk about these things with other people and get ideas around what are other people's thoughts and debrief with other people without saying I've also experienced this, because I think sometimes that can also be really helpful, just to talk to other people who may or may not have had the same experience, but still validating and empathetic around it.

M Yeah, I'm really glad that you mentioned that, because I do think the grief piece around what it means to be a black woman in this country, I think was very triggering for a lot of people that there are so many experiences we have where people don't believe us or don't support us. So I'm really glad you called attention to that.

Absolutely, I want to talk.

A little bit more about domestic violence in particular because I think something that happens for a lot of people is that there is this confusion about Okay, if you find yourself in a situation that's abusive and you don't immediately exit, like what's going on? There are all these questions, and so I wonder if you could talk about, like, how do we undo that pattern of thinking and maybe show more compassion to people who find themselves in these situations.

Yeah, I think that a lot of people. From an external perspective, I think it's very easy to say, if someone treats you like that, just leave, But I think that the nuance of that conversation is missed. I would say at least a good eighty percent of the time that typically it's not always just violence, right, There's these double sided relationships where that person might experience a lot of love, a lot of care, a lot of affection, all of these different things, and also be experiencing violence, which makes it really hard to actually leave the relationship. There might be other pieces where there might be financial dependence, or there might be children involved, there might be family relationships. There's a lot of different things that could be going on within the relationship in addition to the violence that makes it really, really difficult to actually decide to leave that relationship. So I think that knowing all of those pieces gets really importance that we give compassion to people around. It's not easy. Nobody wants to be in a relationship where they're being hurt. Generally, no one would actively choose that if they could make a confident decision and say I'm going to leave and I'm going to walk away from this and never go back. And so generally people need that support from their external family, friends and loved ones in order to feel confident enough to say, Okay, I have the support in order to walk away.

I have the support in order to make my decisions.

I'm glad you mentioned this about family and friends, because I do think all the research talks about the importance of your support system, especially when you are in an abusive situation. And we know sometimes family and friends can make really ill informed, derogatory sometimes comments that really lead you to further feel isolated. What kinds of boundaries or strategies would you suggest for somebody who maybe is in an abusive situation or a violent situation about how to protect themselves and their mental health if family and friends are making those kinds of comments.

I would say having some open and honest conversations, because I think where I try and balance is we never want that person to be isolated who's in the relationship. And so I think when family and friends are making these comments, it can be easy to say like, Okay, I'm done with them, I don't want to talk to them anymore. But on the same hand, being isolated within the relationship often makes that situation much worse. And so I think having these conversations around I can understand why you might be angry, why you might be upset, why you might feel hurt for me, and all of these different things, And here's how you can best support me. And here's where I am, and sort of collaborating with your family and friends around I might not be ready to lead this relationship, and so what does that mean as far as our relationships? How can we still collaborate on a relationship that feels supportive and authentic to the both of us while also still having a relationship.

And you know, thing with the support piece for a little bit in connecting it to our earlier conversation around retraumatization, how do you effectively support a friend without invoking some of this retraumatization, So is it typically good to ask a bunch of questions about what's happening, like what's the line there for somebody who is not trained as a therapist right around how to offer support without retraumatizing someone.

I always take this perspective of just being curious and sort of letting the person laid at first. So I think it also depends on sort of the relationship that you have with that person, and the closer you are, you might be able to read them a little bit better. And so you can just ask them generally like what has your experience been in this relationship or what has your experience been with the violence that this person has inflicted on you? And they can share as much or as little as they want. And I think in a situation where maybe it's less emotionally intense, having those conversations of what's helpful for you as far as me supporting you. Do you want me to ask a lot of questions? Do you want to share a lot of these things? Is it just helpful for me to let you take the lead? And I think once the motions have settled, if it's an active abuse situation, then it can be helpful to navigate those conversations based off what that other person really needs.

More from our conversation after the break. I know one thing that we often turn to, I think, to try to make sense of our own experience is media. So, whether there be.

Movies or videos and.

TV shows, would it be helpful for somebody who is a victim or survivor of domestic violence to consume media that depicts these same kinds of images. Would you say that it's ever healing to be able to consume that kind of content.

I think, Number one, it depends on the nature of the media and where that storyline goes. Generally, I find that for folks who've been in abusive relationships that it's not often helpful.

I think consuming media.

Whether it's TikTok or Instagram of other people who have been in abusive relationships and them sharing their stories and how they have felt and all those things, I think that has often been helpful for other people to feel like they can relate to another person and really understand sort of the steps that they might have taken, or the mistakes that they feel like they've made, or whatnot. But generally, I would say whether it's movies or TV. I think abuse or abuse adjacent relationships can often be romanticized, and so I often don't find that to be the most helpful resource.

I wonder if you can talk a little bit about maybe some healthier images of relationships that you've seen, either in pop culture in media that people might turn to instead of maybe once that are kind of abuse or abuse adjacent.

The first sort of thing that pops into my mind is the TV series This Is Us. I think that series, I found depicted real relationships in a really authentic way and family conflict and all of that kind of stuff, because I think that, especially in a therapeutic sense, we can easily say this is sort of the things that you need to say in order to set boundaries, and this is exactly how it's going to go, and it sometimes feels like it's all going to be tied up in a neat bow, and that's just not really the reality of the human experience.

And so I found that show to be really good because it.

Does feel like there's often like a tendency to feel very interested in couples that are not necessarily those healthy depictions. So something that comes to mind is Krishan in blue face, right, So it feels like there's always something going on. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about like our tendency to maybe gravitate towards those things and be really interested in like those kinds of conversations and content.

I think it's interesting for the human experience, right. I think because of the extreme highs and the extreme lows, it makes really good TV, right, because it's exciting for people. But I think a lot of times we don't necessarily recognize that these are actually people's lives and this is actual abuse that we're watching, and we're sensationalizing it.

I agree.

I think that there is a lot of content of these extreme high and extreme low relationships that people just take their popcorn and they're like, Okay, this is the best content.

Yeah. That does feel like one of the downsides to social media and how easy it is for anybody really to make content, because I think we do get desensitized and think that we're actually watching like entertainment as opposed to people's actual lives and their real consequences.

And I think that quote unquote, healthier relationships don't necessarily make the most interesting content because people want to see the drama. They want to be excited and all that kind of stuff. So I think even if we look at dating TV shows all of that kind of stuff, sometimes we might cheer for the couple that has healthy communication and all of that kind of stuff. But generally a lot of people tune in because they want to see the highs and the lows.

They want to see a lot of the toxicity.

Do you think it's the case that many of us may be over identifying with what we see on social media in terms of relationships, and if so, then can you talk about some of the impact that might have on our actual lives.

Yeah, I think that because healthy communication, mental health, all of that kind of stuff has gained a lot more traction throughout the last decade than it ever has, a lot of people are recognizing, oh wow, like I've been in situations that might have been abusive, or might be abuse adjacent, or I might have acted in ways that we're abusive. And so I think it's easy to see ourselves in a lot of these different relationships or a lot of these different content. And again, I think it can be often romanticized as well, like the excitement of the high highs and the quote unquote passion of the low lows. And so I think that it's easy for us to say, Okay, that's what a real passionate relationship is is if you love each other more than anything and also hate each other more than anything. But really we want that consistency for our nervous system's sake.

So something you just said someone made me think of. I do think like the mental health information that's out it does help people to recognize like, oh, maybe that's my experience or maybe I was a perpetrator in some of these kinds of situations. How might you work with a client who realizes, maybe after watching something online, that maybe previous relationships they've been in actually have been abusive, Like what kinds of steps would you take with them to maybe help them unlearn some of those maybe to be able to spot red flags sooner? Can you say a little bit about how you might work with a client like that.

I always come at it from an angle of what sort of felt comfortable or familiar in that dynamic. And so in these relationships, whether they're hurtful or not, a lot of times there can be a sense of familiarity, and that familiarity could come from childhood, that could come from consuming media, could come from a lot of different places. And so if that familiarity might be, for example, that I've learned really good relationships have those high highs and extremely low lows, then how do we unlearn that and how do we navigate towards what you might feel like is a boring relationship, which actually might be something that is consistent. And if you are the person who sort of was a perpetrator of some of those things, understanding where does that come from for you? How can you tap into your own emotional experience to understand when is your breaking point, When is your point where you need to maybe walk away, Where is your point where you feel like you can't communicate effectively.

I know there's been lots of ongoing conversation around the usage of terms like victim versus survivor. I wonder if you could share a little bit about your thoughts around that language and when it's appropriate to use either.

I think that different people have different preferences for either language. I think that what I have found is that survivor often feels more empowering for folks than victim does. But again, I think everybody has different sort of perspectives on how they would like to label their experience. But I've found in my experience that survivor tends to feel more empowering and feel a little bit more actionable.

Got it? Got it?

Well, someone, I'm so glad that you were able to spend some time with us today sharing all of this. Please let us know where we can stay connected with you. What is your website as well as any social media handles you'd like to share?

Yeah, so my website is www dot the Cognitive Corner dot ca, and then all of my social media handles are at the Cognitive Corner.

Perfect.

I'm so glad someone was able to join us for this conversation. To learn more about her and the work she's doing, visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three seventy nine, and don't forget to text this episodes to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for Black women. You can join us at Community dot Therapy for blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Alice Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,

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The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
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