Welcome back to another episode of the Therapy for Black Girls January Jumpstart mini-series. All month long we will host conversations with talented Black women leaders across creative and professional mediums to assist you in putting the “P” in prioritizing your personal growth. If you’ve been holding back on doing you, THIS is your sign to jump head first into the possibilities of a New Year.
Have you ever wondered how the Therapy For Black Girls Podcast got started, and how episodes are produced? Or maybe thought about creating a podcast of your own or getting involved on the production side of things. You’re in luck, because today we’ll be taking you behind the curtain and getting into the nitty-gritty of what it takes to create a podcast. Joining me for today’s conversation are Therapy For Black Girls team members Fredia Lucas, our senior producer, Ellice Ellis, our podcast producer & social media creative, and Cindy Okereke, our former producer and current director of marketing. During our conversation, we discuss finding an audience for your podcast, explore some basic tools and supplies you should invest in to produce a high-quality podcast, and explain some ways you can monetize your podcast.
About the Podcast
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
Resources & Announcements
Visit our Amazon Store for all the books mentioned on the podcast.
Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals.
Where to Find Our Guests
Ellice Ellis
Fredia Lucas
Cindy Okereke
Stay Connected
Is there a topic you'd like covered on the podcast? Submit it at therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox.
If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out the directory at https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/directory.
Take the info from the podcast to the next level by joining us in the Therapy for Black Girls Sister Circle community.therapyforblackgirls.com
Grab your copy of our guided affirmation and other TBG Merch at therapyforblackgirls.com/shop.
The hashtag for the podcast is #TBGinSession.
Make sure to follow us on social media:
Twitter: @therapy4bgirls
Instagram: @therapyforblackgirls
Facebook: @therapyforblackgirls
Our Production Team
Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard
Producers: Fredia Lucas & Ellice Ellis
Production Intern: Zariah Taylor
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session three forty four of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Welcome back to another episode of our January Jumpstart mini series. All month long, we've been hosting conversations with talented black women leaders across creative and professional mediums to assist you in putting the p and prioritizing your personal growth. If you've been holding back on doing you, this is your sign to jump headfirst into the possibilities of a new year. Have you ever wondered how the Therapy for Black Girls podcast got started or wondered about how to get a job in production, or maybe you've thought about creating a podcast of your own. Well, you're in luck, because today we'll be taking you behind the curtain and getting into the nitty gritty of what it takes to create a podcast and to find a career in podcasting. Joining me for today's conversation our Therapy for Black Girls team members Frida Lucas, our senior producer, Elise Ellis, our podcast producer and social media creative, and Cindy Ocareke, our former producer and current director of marketing. In our discussion today, we drop gyms around finding an audience for your podcast, explore some basic tools and supplies you should invest in to produce a high quality podcast, and explore some ways you can monetize your podcast. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session or join us over in the sister circle to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. I am very excited to be joined again by several members of the Therapy for Black Girls team, So if you would, as we always do, go around and introduce yourself and your role on the team, We'll start with you.
Elese.
Hey, everyone, my name is Elise Ellis and I am the podcast producer and then I also produce creative assets for Therapy for Black Girls as well.
Frida, What's up?
What's up? What's up? Everybody? I'm Freda, the senior producer here at Therapy for Black Girls. Been with the team two years and I've been podcasting since twenty sixteen.
I'm Cindy.
Hi, I'm Cindy. I am a producer for Therapy for Black Girls, but I've now also transitioned into our marketing role, so the director of marketing for Therapy for Black Girls.
We love a good transition.
So I'm happy that you all have joined us today because this has been on the books for some time, making a podcast about making a podcast, So we wanted to share a little bit of behind the scenes kind of information and a little bit about our journey in case anybody else is interested in starting a podcast.
Yes, I'm so so happy that we're doing this, but I think we cannot start this conversation without talking to you first, doctor Joy. So, starting from the very beginning, can you tell us a little bit about how the Therapy for Black Girls podcast was created?
Ooh, a journey into history. Indeed, so I fell in love listening to podcasts. So, like many people, my introduction to podcasts was The Read. So before Therapy for Black Girls was my full time job, I had a forty five minute to an hour commute both ways to Clark Atlanta University. I was the director of the counseling center there. I would just spend that time listening to podcasts, mostly The Read and Cereal, I think a couple of others, and it just felt like such a beautiful conversation, Like it just felt so intimate and like it just really passed the time. And I was already blogging on the Therapy for Black Girls website, and I thought adding the podcast could be another great way to like share mental health information. Luckily for me, my husband has a background in radio production and so I knew I had an in home producer. I did not have to go out to find somebody who would be producing the podcast and making it sound nice. And so I played with it for a while, Like it took me probably several months between when I had the idea and like when the first episode came out, because I was really nervous, like what am I going to be talking about?
Like what is all this even going to do?
And in the meantime, though, I took a class called the Healthcasters. So doctor Melvin Borkis is a psychologist who had a class teaching therapist how to be podcasters. So I took his class. I went through all the modules, felt really prepared, and then we finally put the first episode out, I believe in April of twenty seventeen.
You see, that's some backstory that I didn't even know, so I know our audience will be appreciative of it. So you talked already a little bit about how you guys went from like a dynamic duo now we're kind of a band of rock stars. How did a recording of a TVG episode look different from when the show first started versus now?
Yeah, So I'm still recording in a closet just because the acoustics are the best. So it's a new closet because we've moved home since we started the podcast, but I'm still recording in my closet and the addition of the band of rock Stares, as you mentioned, I think has just done nothing but make the podcast even better because while initially it was just me thinking about what kinds of things do I want to talk about and like getting suggestions from the audience, now we have a team of people who can do research and give suggestions. We're thinking through episodes like months ahead at a time, which.
Is really cool.
That's probably the biggest difference is that when the podcast first started, from week to week, I would be likely on Tuesday evening, like in the closet recording for what would be coming out on Wednesday, and now we are typically to six weeks ahead in terms of releasing episodes. So that has been great I think in terms of the quality of the county. But also my stress level is for decreased because we already know what's coming out each week weeks in advance.
So I'm gonna shift this question to everyone because Doctor Joy you talked a little bit about planning for the future, having an editorial calendar and things like that. What are some of the other steps of the production process for this podcast? Freedo send myself feel free to take the floor.
I think for me, at least when I first started producing with Doctor Joy, one of the first things I would do is think about what's going on in my own life or the things that I'm seeing in everyone's life that could potentially relate to therapeutic practice or topic or just an idea, and then see if I can find the therapist or practice that can match that, and then just paying attention to trends that you're seeing, like conversational trends. A lot of things cycle and we go through things as like a community or a group, and that's a way for us to kind of find ideas of how to address our audience's needs because for me, like this whole thing is about being in service to the audience and so thinking about them first and then what is it that they need, and like what's going on in the world or in their worlds or in this particular life stage for them, and then finding a licensed professional to match.
Building off of what Cindy shared, So every week for a Therapy for Black Girls, we have a weekly production meeting, and during our weekly meeting, we talk about what episodes we have in the pipeline and then also what episodes we're dreaming about and imagining. And so if you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh, I'd love to start a podcast. Let's say you know you want to do a podcast on movies and you wanted to plan out content for well, let me preface this. Therapy for Black Girls produces on a weekly basis. Now, we are a rock star of teams, as at least said right, So if you're starting a podcast, let's say you want to do one episode of month. Okay, let's start there. If you want to do one episode of month, having some kind of meeting with yourself or with whomever you're collaborating with, whether that be a co host or someone else, producer, engineer, on Okay, we want to do this podcast on movies. We're starting in the month of February or March. If we think about the remainder of the year, what might be topical but also relate to our film. So, if we know we're releasing in March, do we want to look at a Saint Patrick's Day movie? Do we want to look at a movie that's something related to what the larger zeitgeist or the community of people that you are trying to reach might be interacting with thinking about or engaging. So that way, you can also make content based off Oh I just watched this movie, I loved it so much, and then I'm going to release it and hold on to it. But also you can create content that you can anticipate your audience might be interested in or wanting to do, and prepare for that as well. So our weekly production meetings is a combination of that. Doctor Joe will be like, I just watched the show on X and X streaming platform. Can we get in the studio and talk about it? It's a yes, of course. And it's also, Hey, in a couple of months, it's going to be Mother's Day. What topics related to Mother's Day might relate to our audience. And the cool thing about that is moms is a big topic. We might decide, oh, we want to talk about people who have lost their mothers, or we might want to talk about people who don't speak to their mothers. Those are very different topics as well. And having the intentionality to prepare for that allows you, I think, to have a better work life balance, like doctor Joy said, but then also have a lot of fun because you can spend more time working to bring your ideas to life.
Similar to what you said at the beginning. For me at least, and I think this is my favorite part of the production process is research. There are so many experts out there, whether they're licensement told professionals or you know, if we have an episode about what it's like to be a woman in sports, or if we're looking to talk to black women who have knowledge about gardening. There's so many guests and so going through that process of looking at the interviews they've done in the research and talking to the team and finding that right fit is I think really crucial to the production process. And ever since I've joined the team, I've really enjoyed like discovering, Okay, who is the right fit in defining the types of guests we want to be on the show. So I think that is so important to like any podcasts, is defining what are the types of guests we're looking for, what our voices And yeah, it's really exciting when you have to like go through that research process and discuss it as a team. It's definitely fun for me at least.
Can I just add to the importance of research And I would love to encourage more people in podcasting to be research based your lived experience is incredibly valuable, and having additional research to support the experiences that you have dealt with firsthand only amplifies your impact.
So I feel like each of you have talked about being of service to the community and paying attention to what your community needs. But I think this is where lots of beginning podcasters struggle the most, is like where is my community? Like how do I even find people who will enjoy the podcast? So what tips would you give to people about how to actually find an audience or to tap into an existing audience. What kinds of things do you think have been really helpful.
I'd say when I think about therapy for black girls, and then I've also started my own podcast outside of this, I always try to lean into one knowing that, like all of your friends and all of the people who support you, they may not be your audience. So I think think that's one thing that you have to be considerate of. But then find yourself thinking about the communities in which you already connect with and what people what guess what topics lie within that And so, for instance, this podcast exists within the mental health community, so obviously we're going to choose therapists, a great guest who is notable, or they have a great mission, but then you have to walk it back and like, does this align with the type of content I want to put out? And so I think being very intentional and sometimes for me, I even think about the endpoint and what that will look like. So as someone who works on social it's like, what would the caption be if this guest came, what would the title of this episode be, what would the description be, and does that align with what this podcast is or what I want it to be. Who is our ideal listener? And do you think they would click play on this episode? And I think for any podcast, it's really good to balance being creative, being daring, to taking risks, but also serving your audience and continuing to align with your intention. So I'd say look for guests and topics, not to copy other people, but if you're a part of the Facebook group, Okay, what would these people like and what they listen to this episode? If I view them as ideal listeners? Or if I follow an Instagram page and I'm like, man, I would really want to be featured on that page. I would really want my podcast to be aligned with that, what would that group of people lean into. So I think asking yourself those hard questions and always remembering like what is my end goal? What is my intention? And does this topic or does this guest align with that?
I would say what I've observed to be the most beneficial and high impact when it comes to building a community is already being a part of one. And so what I mean by that is, I think the shows that I've worked on who have built the strongest community, the hosts themselves have had a three sixty approach to that topic and what that might look like for a three sixty approach for therapy for Black girls. Doctor Joy is literally a therapist. She knows therapists. She identifies as a therapist. She was working, as she mentioned, at Clark Atlanta in relation to the mental health space, so she created something based on the community that she was already a part of. For another show I worked on, I worked on Content Queens as the executive producer. Content Queens was about being a social media creator. The two hosts of that show are content creators, so they already know content creators. They know what content creators are thinking about and what they're looking to do, and so when they when to go find an audience, their audience was already the people who are looking at them, because those people aspire to be content creators. A lot of the people who are listening to Therapy for Black Girls identify as therapists or people who are studying to be therapists, very much so, and so on the flip side, for individuals who I feel like were not as strongly connected to a community, it was very hard for them to market the show because they were relying on their family and friends who do not identify with that respective interest of theirs or that area of expertise that they have. And as at least mentioned, your family and friends simply may not be your target audience because they may not gain any benefit or it's not the kind of educational resources they're looking to pour into their lives. Identifying who you are what groups you belong to is imperative, I think for the success of a podcast, especially because it is a new medium and we know that not everyone within your community may even be listening to podcasts, right, and so it's a double of is this an area that I'm interested in learning about and now it's on a platform that I have to learn about as well. That's a double education for a consumer. Whereas if I'm already kind of into the vibe of what you're doing, I like TV, you're making a TV podcast where in a TV group or what have you, I might be more are inclined to then learn more about the podcasting medium and indulge in the art that you're making.
All of that's super well said, and like for me, just the added piece is like always returning to that core question, because what you're really aiming to do as you're building a podcast or any sort of social media platform or any platform really digitally in this day and age, is like you're looking for that thousand true fans, and like people have said this over and over again, and it always starts with one. So if you are one, and then you find two, and then you find three, and then you continue to grow it, but you always have to stay true to sort of why are you gathering these people here in the first place, what is it that we're meant to connect around, what it is that we're meant to learn from one another, and then continuously make it a conversation.
So I want to shift it back to doctor joy A bit. And like we said, you went from a duo to a team of rock stars. How did you grow to a point where you were able to hire a production team? And what were you looking for in producers?
This is another good question.
So I really wasn't necessarily looking to add to the team. It just kind of became a necessity at some point as the podcast became bigger. When I'm thinking about what you said, Cindy around like the thousand true fans, And I feel like we found those thousand true fans pretty early in the history of therapy for Black girls, and so therapy for Black girls really has grown mostly I would say, by word of mouth from black women, so telling their friends and their sorority sisters, and their hairstylists and their colleagues, and like all of these people would just say like, oh, did you listen to the latest episode, and like sharing it in group chats and those kinds of things. And so I think because the audience was so excited about it, the community was so excited about it, then we got attention from big networks to join them. So we were introduced to the people at the iHeart podcast network through someone who listened to the podcast shout out to Eve who was our early executive producer. She loved the podcast and was working at iHeart and said, I think we need to look at bringing them onto the network. And so once we joined the network, then we had more money to actually find producers to hire because I wasn't necessarily paying my husband. He was just kind of working, you know, out of the kindness of his heart while he also had an outside job. Then, so once we joined the iHeart podcast network, then we had additional funds to be able to bring on people. And it was really helpful for me to have Cindy, who was our first producer, to help with like some of the research and like, Okay, well what are you paying attention to? I also think it helps because I am in a certain age of my life right, Like I'm a mom with two kids, and so I have a very different vantage point than like somebody who like just graduated undergrad like Elise. So it helped to kind of have a a variety of perspectives and like life experiences on the team to be able to cover all the spectrum of black womanhood that I think we really try to capture at Therapy for Black Girls.
Yeah, just echoing what you said, Doctor Joy, I always think about how like black women aren't a monolith, and how everyone on our team. Of course we have similarities and we share like a lot of common interest, but we definitely all bring diverse perspectives. And I even love in our wider team meetings outside of the podcast hearing the ideas that other team members have for the show, because I'm like, I wouldn't have thought of that being the twenty five year old that I am, and so I think that is also like something if you're looking to add members to your team, you want people who are aligned with what you want to do, but also people who can like challenge you and push you into new directions and make you consider other ideas. Opening this up to everyone, what resources, platforms, technologies are out there for people wanting to create a podcast, and what supplies us one need to invest in to make a good quality one. I feel like our team we've tried everything, so we can definitely speak to this.
So I will start by saying, having a good quality microphone should probably be your first investment, just because a podcast is an audio first endeavor, and so people who enjoy podcasts, I feel like are sticklers for like good sounding audio, and so if you're wanting to get into the podcast game, then I think a quality microphone, and it doesn't have to be like a five hundred dollars microphone. My first microphone was a deal I got on Black Friday. I think it was like fifty dollars or something like that. So there are definitely different levels of microphones. But when you think that you're gonna be serious about podcasting, then I think that the first investment should be a quality microphone, and then you will need somewhere to record the audio in. So there are lots of different hosting platforms that you can use to host your podcast. So Lipsyn is the hosting software that we use when we initially started Therapy for Black Girls. Now we are on Omni, which is who iHeart podcast Network uses, But there are tons. There are so many different hosting platforms, and the hosting platform is what will allow your podcasts to be pushed through to all of the places. So Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio like all the places where you see podcasts. That is because the file is hosted somewhere else and then pushed through to these other platforms.
Building off of that. So what Doctor Joys talking about is also called an RSS feed, And so previously folks had to submit any audio to individualized platforms, so you would have to send it to Apple. However, there are now additional platforms that you can use to host your site. Some of them are built into some of your favorite streaming platforms. So you can look into different streaming platforms that have their own RSS feed amplification, or you can look into end handed RSS feeds.
This is a mix of process and platforms, but I definitely say just finding the best editing platform that works for you. I think if you're a more interview based show, then you might want to look at a platform that allows you to edit in like a transcript mode and not based on waveform because a lot of times you want that editing to be quicker and more efficient. But I think that's a process of trial and era and kind of researching talking to other producers what does their show use. Because if you're a narrative show and you want to add in natural sound and music and all of that is very crucial to the story you're telling, then you might want to use something more waveform based. But yeah, I think that's something very important to consider, like what type of show am I and what's going to be the most beneficial to my editing process and for.
The folks brand brand brand new to podcasting. When Alis says a waveform, that means it looks like a dancing ocean wave while you're talking, a waveform looks like an ocean wave going up and down depending on how your voice is fluctuating. Okay, so you can edit looking at an ocean wave of your voice, or you can edit looking at a transcript, which means you would in the same way that you be on certain social media apps and you can see what people are saying. You get that caption that's subtitling. You can also edit your podcast using platforms like that. So those are things to keep an eye out for.
I should say I mentioned a little bit about this in my answer, but talk to us everyone about the different formats a podcast can take and how one should choose which route to go. So whether that's video leaning versus audio leaning, or are you a show that wants to have a script and be more narrative or are you an interview based show. Talk to us about those differences.
I think one of the key differences for those is a time and resources perspective. So, like anything that's more video leaning, I would say budget three times the amount of time on the edit, just because video files are a lot larger, it's a little bit more complicated to make it look natural. If you're cutting certain things in audio, you can like be like, Okay, well, I know that they meant to say this part of the sentence at the beginning, and you'd be able to easily swap that out so it flows. But when somebody is speaking and talking if they said at backwards, you're just going to have to leave it that way and hope that it makes enough sense, unless you have like multiple camera angles so you can cheat it. And these are things that I feel like most of the time people record in like a one camera setup, so that's the one camera you can use, but if you're adding multiple cameras. And I say this because I got my start in podcasting and like the video leaning side of podcas casting, and we worked with a three camera technically four camera setup because there's a jib included, and that is very expensive, especially if you are going to be going for like kind of camera quality that level the number of camera operators, the production team around that. That's very expensive and so definitely take into consideration what your goals are with it, what your runway with a budget is, and then again how much time you want to spend in post production versus like pre production research and the scripting.
And free do you know you initially mentioned a good point around deciding how often you want your show to come out. So Therapy for Black Girls is weekly, but podcasts don't have to be weekly. And I think if you are thinking about a podcast, that is one place where you want to start is deciding like how much bandwidth do you have to produce on a certain cadence. And the most important thing for building a podcast is consistency. So your audience will rock with you as long as they know, like when the podcast is coming. So if monthly is all you can commit to, then that's totally fine to give yourself a month to get episodes out. But I think it's hard when you start out becoming weekly, then you move to two weeks, and then you jump to a month. It's really hard for your audience that predict when they're going to get a new show. So I would say to stick with something from the very beginning that is easy for you to fit into your schedule. I will also say that the thing that when people ask me, like, what did you not know about podcasting before now, is how much work it's actually involved in from a post production perspective in making a show. Right. So our show, I would say, is pretty low lift in terms of being interview style mostly right. So it's sometimes me talking by myself and sometimes I'm interviewing another therapist or another guest, and typically the episodes are brought between like thirty and forty five minutes, and so what you hear as the end product, which is how I was fooled by podcast right, because they sound like, oh, it's so easy, it's just people talking, right, But for any thirty to forty five minute episode, you're probably looking at an additional six to eight hours of somebody listening to the file and somebody editing the file to make sure it sounds nice, and like putting all the pieces together writing the show. Notes like, it's a lot of additional work that goes into putting out these thirty to forty five minute episodes. And so from the front end, you do need to know that even if you only record like thirty minute episodes. We're not looking at just thirty minutes of work more from our conversation after the break.
Yeah, I think that's definitely something very important to consider. What you hear on Apple podcasts or Spotify is not what is coming out of a recording session. And I think a lot of people do think podcasting is quote unquote easy. It's like, oh, it's just talking into a mic. But the best shows like ours have such a robust production process. And you said sany, that is something that you have to think about when choosing your format. Do I want to put in a lot of effort to find a studio where I can do video and do these video edits and work with an editor and give them notes and all those different things. So I definitely think that's something important to consider. And then, as we all mentioned about, like audience in community, what is going to be the most beneficial for them? Are you talking about a subject matter that is just so popular on YouTube that you know, whether it's video only episodes or both video and audio, you have to do something that aligns with YouTube's format. Is your episode teaching people how to cook or how to do something visual? And do you have to have that visual aspect or do you have so many great gems in your episode that you need to break it down for people and be on a platform like TikTok where they can see those bite sized pieces of information. Are you gen Z focused and studies show that they prefer shorter form content, so I think you also have to take your audience and community into consideration as well. Circling back to Doctor Joan, you talked a little bit about this. What are some things you wish you knew or considered before starting a podcast? And also for our producers, what are some things you wish or considered before becoming a podcast producer.
I think for me, the biggest lesson is the amount of time that it actually takes to produce good quality audio. Like I said, I think some of the best podcasts make it sound very effortless, and then you get on the other side and you realize, like, oh, okay, this is this is a lot of work. I think the other thing that I wish I would have known beforehand is to account for breaks. So we are pretty much like an always on kind of podcast, but I do think we are able to take breaks sometimes because we have so much of a bad catalog or a queue of episodes that we release. But I think thinking about like when you're gonna want to give yourself breaks ahead of time before you saw it, is probably a really good idea.
When I started off podcasting, I was hosting my own show, executive producing my own show. It had a video element and multi camera situation, just jumped in be first, head first, all the body jumped in the water, and we wanted to be a weekly podcast. We want to be a weekly podcast so bad. And we were like, how are we going to do it? You know, we're just recording them, we'll release it. It'll just come out. We ended up realizing, to your point of doctor Joy about having breaks, that that would mean for the ten weeks that we were recording and releasing, like we would be doing two jobs at once. And so we ended up deciding that it made more sense to do something that's called badge recording. So we recorded all all the episodes first, and then we took a small break because we were tired from doing all that recording. We took a small break, and then we went into post production. We were producing it and getting it out on a weekly basis. I would recommend batch recording for people starting off in production for the first time, because the lessons and opportunities of going through something the first time is enough without having to worry about putting it out. Putting it out it's more work than you think, and so giving yourself the opportunity to have X amount of weeks. If you're a ten episode podcast, I might recommend you do a twelve week batch recording period. You give yourself ten weeks to do each of the respective episodes, and then you have two additional weeks on those weeks that either you don't want to because you're tired, or also you can build it into two weeks of rest before you get into the editing of all that you've just recorded. But for people who are starting out, definitely pacing yourself and figuring out on a weekly basis in the same way that you planned for work, or you plan to make dinner for your family, or you plan to go to the gym, planning when in your schedule it's going to work for you to do this, as opposed to just thinking that you're going to have the energy to do part one and Part B on the same day. Because I'm gonna tell you you're really probably not.
I definitely agree with that, And I think for me, I started in an interesting way. So I was primarily like in the marketing side, but I mostly worked on larger productions. So for me, like becoming a producer for just audio at the time was learning how to scale back with an understanding about like where you could possibly scale too. So I feel like I did the opposite of a lot of people who start out in audio, and so because of that, I think I always knew how much time and effort and resources went into it, and so I'm never surprised when someone quotes me something or is like it's gonna take X amount of hours or whatever. I'm like, oh, I've seen that export before, Yes, that will take twelve hours. And the thing is people don't realize that sometimes like literally some camera you record it for an hour, and if that camera file is shooting in like four K, like you literally easily could be there for twelve hours just having it saved down just to open it in premiere. And I think it's the balance of that.
This might be more of a trivial one, but when you're a podcaster, you consume so much media, whether it's your own show watching things for research, and so sometimes for me at least, it can take the joy out of watching things or listening to things mindfully, because sometimes I'm always think about, ooh, this is a good idea for work, or we should talk about this on the podcast. And so I do think having your kind of decompression shows or podcasts that are just for you is really great. And sometimes at the end of the day I don't want to talk to anyone because I've listened to like three to six hours of audio and been in recordings and be in meetings, and I'm like, whooh, these ears are tired. So I think that's just something to be mindful of, Like, yes, you can love podcasting, and of course, like I love the show I'm working on, but sometimes it's just like, oooh, I've listened to and I've consumed so much. I need a break and I need to detox. And so that's something I've definitely had to be more mindful of as my podcasting career has progressed.
Oh yeah, I'm definitely known to just be sitting in like a silent room. I feel like people ask, like, what's your serial killer trade? It's like at the end of a long day where you've had multiple recordings, you've worked on multiple shows, or done a bunch of different notes on video edits, and you basically like, my eyes can't work anymore and my ears don't work, so I'm just gonna not see your listeners to anything.
So we've all seen the jokes about how Amazon needs to stop selling podcasting mics on social media. We've seen an uptick in podcast bros and viral problematic clips from popular podcasts. How does one make sure that the podcast they are creating is ethical and offering meaningful resources slash knowledge to the community.
I feel like this is our hot take version of a question, right, So I think at least we have to start with understanding that everybody is not ethical, and so because we have seen so much virality, I think from podcast clips, it has encouraged some people to kind of go into the field for that reason, as opposed to wanting to share knowledge and like help their communities. I think if you are interested in only just going by, then I don't think that you probably won't be listening to this show anyway. But I think for most people who want to go into podcasting because they have a story to share, or they want to help their community in some way. I do think it is important to always make sure that you are tapped into that community. Mean, you know, for Therapy for Black Girls, my training and my license because I do still have an active license to practice, definitely gives perspective to the way that we approach the show, because I am never wanting to do anything that harms our community or giving people information that is not accurate or has not been well researched. So I think if you are wanting to make sure that you're acting ethically, it is important to have people that you are checking in with. I think you mentioned this Indy, not just having people who will agree with you on everything, but people who can push back and say, I don't know if that's who we want to put in front of our audience, or do we really want to give this person a platform. I think having people that you answer to that there's a group of you actually responsible for the show is one great way to make sure that you're acting ethically.
I guess like the slug or like the slogan for the Therapy for Black Girls podcast is where mental health meets pop culture. But I also think people have to realize that every topic in pop culture, and you know, every trending topic on Twitter, does not need to be discussed in audio format, and so you have to think what new perspectives am I offering or am I existing in an echo chamber? Like you said, doctor Juid's always great to have people on your team who keep you in check, but I also think some of these ideas that you're discussing, it's always great to have I don't want to say opposing perspectives, but also make sure you're considering a breadth of perspectives when you're approaching any topic. So I think that's really important. And then what free to say is research is so important. So are you speaking to hear yourself speak and to have your own perspective validator or are you really trying to explore and have your audience explore.
And so that is.
Something that I think about a lot when I'm listening to podcasts, Like I love pop culture podcasts, I love a chat show, but I also really appreciate a chat show that is able to say, you know what, someone wrote an article on this and you guys should dig deeper there. Or maybe even I was thinking about this, and I talked to my therapists or my friends and this is what they said about this, or you know, helps you put some of these larger ideas in the context of what has happened and what is happening in the world. And so I think whether you're a listener or someone looking to create a podcast, you really have to think about the aspect of kind of credibility and how people are going beyond their own beliefs and thoughts to offer their audience or even themselves like a different or better perspective. All right, So I'm going to move to the next question. Beyond recording the podcast itself, how important is branding? What steps should someone take to promote their podcast, and what does good branding look like?
So for podcasts is super important. I know that it's primarily an audio space, but there are opportunities for you to visually key your audience in what you pick for the thumbnail for your podcast, what you put in the banner space for the Apple podcasts, and there are now more and more visual surfaces that allow for your audience to kind of tap into what your show is about. So really thinking about what are the principles of your podcast. So if you notice a lot of money podcasts, like they use reds and blacks and greens, because those are kind of like the colors of the stock market. Money wellness podcasts, a lot of times it's like browns and greens, like it's about growth. Think about like the thematic colors for your branding, what messages that you're trying to carry through. There's like a whole thing about the psychology of colors, even some of the psychology behind certain fonts and things, and that's something that you should just always pay attend to do as your branding. But it also needs to feel like it speaks authentically to you. And then always remember that most people are consuming things on mobile, so like make sure that it looks good and clear when it's scaled down really small, because a lot of times people get wrapped up in like I love how this looks, and they're looking at it on a big screen and so it looks great, and then when you make it small, no one can see the title. They can't even see your face. You need to like remember that the visual needs to both scale up and scale down.
Those are such great tips.
I think you also though from the very beginning need to be mindful of when you're choosing the name of your podcast, because I think you know, if you think about, like, oh, you and a couple of friends like want to start a podcast, and y'all have this very clever inside joke. Well, of course it's clever to you all because you're a part of the joke, but your audience will not know what that inside joke means. And so being very clear I think with the naming of your podcast, so that people very quickly can get a gist of what the podcast is going to be about. Right, So not being cute with your name or if you are cute, like saving that for a subtitle, but making like the main title of your podcast something that's very easy for people to recognize and understand what you're going to be talking about.
So, as someone who's working like both on the podcast and in social media, I think one a big part of branding is giving people other formats to digest the information of your podcast. And so whether that means you're making tiktoks about your podcasts or graphics about your podcast, I don't think you can only rely on the full audio version or the full YouTube version. A big part of branding is like, how can I reach as many people as possible? And so you never know where a thirty second clip or three tips or a quote from the show, where that'll go. Someone could post it on their LinkedIn, they can post it on their Twitter. It could be, you know, an affirmation that they say to themselves every day, and someone could be like, where do you hear that from? And so thinking about of course honing in on your audience, but other smaller ways that you can make your brand and your podcast successful is really really important. And then I think something we do great at is having just a really strong tagline for your podcast in ways that you talk about your show, and I think that's a lesson in intention and not trying to shift and mold what your show is. So a whole bunch of people can listen having a very strong point of view and a very strong way you discuss your show, so that everyone understands what it is, but also everyone can say, you know, what is this for me? Do I want to check it out? And you can invite people in by just being confident in the way that you talk about your show. So, before we close out, let's talk money. How does a person make money from a podcast, and what does the process of working with companies and sponsors look like to do things like in person events, build virtual communities, or just have money to produce their show other than what's coming from their own pockets.
This is a great question at least, and I think more and more people are getting into podcasting as like a career. I didn't necessarily start the podcast thinking like I would be able to make any money from it, and it just so happened that I was able to turn it into my full time career. But I think if you are thinking about it as a career interest, there are several different ways that people make money with podcasts. So primarily for us, we make money through ad revenue. So, like I mentioned, we're part of the iHeart podcast network, and you will hear ads on the podcast. So we're talking about shopping at Macy's or Tied Detergent, are those kinds of things, And so iHeart is responsible for getting those sponsors for us, and then we say yes or no to whether we want to work with certain sponsors, and then you will hear the ads show up on the podcast. But other podcasts make money through live events. Lots of podcasts have paid tres or other communities where they will have versions of the podcasts that are not no ads are read, or they have like little mini shows, or like other video content that they share only with their exclusive community. People do lots of different things, I think with podcasts, and so I think that that has been the cool thing is that like it feels like there are no shortage of ways that you can actually monetize. But I will say, though, you should not expect that you will like start a podcast and like be making money in month two. So, like I mentioned, like we started the podcast in twenty seventeen, and I don't think we signed with iHeart until twenty nineteen, so we were doing the podcast for about two years before you know, we were really making any kind of consistent income from the podcast. And so I do want people to make sure that you keep your expectations realistic, because you won't necessarily start making a ton of money from a podcast overnight.
I think the business models that I've seen work be best for podcasts that are especially within that first two year marker where you are least likely to be making money from ads, because you may not have a distribution channel that is assisting you and finding ads and partnerships. So if your mom and pop style fundingate yourself by your own brute straps, however you like to say it. Live events is what I think I've seen most podcasters really prophetize on because they've made a community the people whomever listen to their podcast want to meet in person, and they charge nominal fees to get people really invested in the brand to feel like they are part of a community. So that way those people continue to listen because the most important thing that is going to be needed to be picked up is to have a community of unique listeners that are growing per month. So that way, when whomever calls you says, oh, your show is so great, it's like, yeah, I've got twelve thousand people, I've got five thousand people, I've got ten thousand people, I've got fifty thousand people that continuously come and listen to my show. When I tell them I'm having an in person event, they want to spend additional money to support this business. So in person events, I would feel like granted when we talk about making money for in person events, especially in some of the places our listeners are, which is major metropolitan cities, it's hard enough to break even. But I do like to think of podcasting as a long term investment. So let's say you do an event and you put two three thousand dollars into it. Prayerfully you will have created such a community amongst yourselves that when you get that fifty thousand, seventy thousand dollars deal from whatever major platform wants to pick you up, those initial fees are nominal at this point. They're minis school at this point. But if you are looking to get some coins, I recommend in person events and if you can have the initial investment in merch, have merch at that event. Have stickers, have posters, have something that your audience, your community can once again grab onto to cement themselves in your community so that they stay with you for the ride. And most importantly, don't go broke on podcasting because in the long term, you're going to need to take care of yourself. This is a long game. So if you blow ten fifteen and you're out in a situation where you can no longer provide for yourself and your podcast, you've done it wrong. I'm gonna completely echo that Freeda and speaking from my own experiences like starting my own podcast. I did in person event and I think it allowed me to test how strong community is attracted to the content that I'm putting out there. And so I think that's you know, even if you have five or six episodes, trying to do that and just seeing okay, is this something that brings people out in real life? Because I think that's something that sponsors are always looking for. I also think the more you talk about the things that you love on a show, there are going to be companies are people that represent those things that are going to be attracted to your show, And that's where it's important to niche down and have a strong point of view. If you're kind of a variety show, some companies don't know where they fit in when it comes to aligning with your show. But if you have a very strong point of view, whether you're talking about sexual health or budgeting, or you're talking about personal style, if you're able to showcase that, then it'll be no problem to get any type of company, whether it's a women's health company, or if it's a budgeting app, or if it's a reselling app, to say, you know what, this show is something that we want to invest in because our audience is aligned. So when you have such a strong audience and you take those steps to figure out what is that audience and what are the different ways in which they'll show up, I think you'll start to see monetary value from your podcast. So we've shared just a wealth of information here and I know everyone's going to be wondering, how can I keep up with this team of rock stars? How can I tap in with therapy for black girls? So before we go, how can we keep up with your work and stay connected? What are your social media handles as well as any website information you'd like to share.
So you can just keep up with me. I'm at Essence of Zen like Essence of cin or you can find me on like LinkedIn, maybe TikTok. I'm trying to kind of social detoks a little bit. So right now I'm mostly just active on Instagram and TikTok and LinkedIn.
Okay, So for me, I would love to direct people to my LinkedIn so you can find me on LinkedIn at Frieda Lucas. That's f Rdia Lucas l Ucas on LinkedIn. I'm trying to share more as it relates to creating in the podcasting space, share more insights on how people can begin sharing their stories and also meet other podcasters who believe in creating magical art that benefits the world and foster's positivity. So please find me there.
And you can find me most often on Instagram. I am at Hello doctor Joy both there and on threads.
You can find me on Instagram at E l l I C E E l l I S and my website is Elise Ellis dot com.
All right, thanks y'all, thank you so much for joining me and having such a great conversation today. I'm so glad Alise, Cindy and Freedom were able to join me for this conversation, so learn more about the work they're doing. Be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three forty four, and don't forget to text two of your girls right now and encourage them to check out the episode. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls slash directory. If you're looking for a support system to aid you in your New year journey, join us in the Therapy for Black Girls Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet where we celebrate support and practice vulnerability each week. This January, we're setting the foundation to turn our resolutions into realities. This episode was produced by Frieda Lucas, Alis Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Take good care,