There are an endless amount of studies that show how hobbies can be beneficial to our mental health and wellness. However, it can be understandably difficult to choose what hobby to take on, or even know where to start. If this sounds like you, then don’t fret, because in this first part of our January Jumpstart mini-series, we’re highlighting sewing and breaking down everything you need to know in order to make it your new year hobby.
Joining us for this conversation is Lisa Woolfork, a scholar, sewist, community organizer, and podcaster. She is the founder of Black Women Stitch, the sewing group where Black Lives Matter. She is also the host and producer of Stitch Please, a weekly audio podcast that centers Black women, girls, and femmes in sewing. Lisa and I chatted about the supplies you should invest in as a beginner sewist, how you can make time for sewing in your busy life, and how sewing can teach you lessons in self-compassion and forgiveness.
About the Podcast
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
Resources & Announcements
Visit our Amazon Store for all the books mentioned on the podcast.
Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals.
Where to Find Lisa
Stay Connected
Is there a topic you'd like covered on the podcast? Submit it at therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox.
If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out the directory at https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/directory.
Take the info from the podcast to the next level by joining us in the Therapy for Black Girls Sister Circle community.therapyforblackgirls.com
Grab your copy of our guided affirmation and other TBG Merch at therapyforblackgirls.com/shop.
The hashtag for the podcast is #TBGinSession.
Make sure to follow us on social media:
Twitter: @therapy4bgirls
Instagram: @therapyforblackgirls
Facebook: @therapyforblackgirls
Our Production Team
Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard
Producers: Fredia Lucas & Ellice Ellis
Production Intern: Zariah Taylor
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, Happy New Year, and thanks so much for joining me for Session three party of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors.
I'm six five four three two one.
I'm so excited to welcome you into twenty twenty four by kicking off the third edition of the Therapy for Black Girls January Jumpstart mini series. All month long, we'll host conversations with talented black women leaders across creative and professional mediums to assist you in putting the p and prioritizing your personal growth. If you've been holding back on doing you this is your sign to jump headfirst into the possibilities of a new year. They're an endless amount of studies that show how hobbies can be beneficial to our mental health and wellness. However, it can be understandably difficult to choose what hobby to take on or even know where to start. If this sounds like you, then don't for it, because in this first part of our January Jumpstart mini series, we're highlighting sewing and breaking down everything you need to know in order to make it your new year hobby. Joining us for this conversation is Lisa Wolford, a scholar, soist, community organizer, and podcaster. She's the founder of Black Women's Stitch, the sewing group where Black lives Matter. She's also the host and producer of Stitch Please, a weekly audio podcast that centers black women, girls, and films in sewing. Lisa and I chatted about the supplies you should invest in as a beginning soist, how you can make time for sewing in your busy life, and how sewing can teach you less and self compassion and forgiveness. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in session, or join us over in the Sister Circle to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Lisa.
I am delighted at honor to be here. Thank you for having me.
Absolutely so. There is quite an inspiring story behind Black Women's Stitch. Can you tell us the backstory about how you started?
I started because I built what I needed. This was an example of coming together and transforming pain into a beautiful community that has helped us stay in me as well as the black women and black creatives in generally. I started Black Women's Stitch in the wake of my time as an organizer in Charlottesville, Virginia during a very vicious and powerful incursion of white supremacist violence in the summer of twenty seventeen. Charlottesville, Virginia had a clan or Nazi rally every month throughout that entire summer. We had a torch rally that was unreported in May, we had a small rally in June. The clan came in July, and in August we had the largest white supremacist rally in US history up to that date. They were coming to protest the removal of the Roberty Lee statues, but they were really coming to defend their white right to control public space. I joined a Black Lives Matter group during that time, and we did lots of organizing. We would go to meetings, we held teachings, we did lots of different things. And the reason I chose to do it was because I just could not believe that in this day and age of twenty seventeen, that I would have to tell my one hundred year old grandma that I had to go protest the Klan. It was appalling, and so Black Women Stitch as a very long story. We started with, in some ways devastation. It started because after surviving a white supremacist terror attack that happened on August eleventh and twelfth. August eleventh, you might recall, was what was called the Tiki Torch Rally. That's when white supremacists marched on the campus of the University of Virginia and attack students and community members. That night. As that was happening, I was locked in a church across the street. I was doing an interview with Cornell West for Sir Joerna's magazine and about resisting fascism or the imperative to do so. When someone rushed in and said, the Klan is outside with torches, stay here, and we had to eventually evacuate the building. But that was just a precursor to what happened the next day, which was brawls in the streets and a state of emergency being declared, and then the white supremacists were pretty much abolished. They got kicked out, they had to cancel their event, and we thought we had won because they were being turned away and it was our community. My kids went to that library where they were doing all these terrible things, and so it felt like an act of love and an act of community defense to be out in the streets that day. That was my position. And as we were walking and preparing to turn into one of the narrow streets on the downtown mall, that was when the white supremacist drove his car through and hit all of the counter protesters. I was standing there at the intersection when that happened, and it was utter chaos. And so after this event, after trauma and nightmare and loss. I made the decision, and in retrospect, a bad one, to go to a quilt event that I had been attending for the last fifteen years or so. It was out of town, and when I arrived at the event, I was always the only black person in that space. And in the past it wasn't a problem. It wasn't a problem when my father passed away, suddenly they made me a quilt. They were very supportive and very kind. But after this event and my work with anti racists and anti fascists organizing, their mood changed. And when I arrived, I was told that Charlottesville was not to be discussed. Now. It was not to be discussed because they were concerned about my feelings. It was that they didn't really feel like being bothered. And I had always had these inklings, you know how you have that little nudge in the back of your neck, like, I don't know, you hear somebody say something sideways, the things that we now call microaggressions. That was something that was, you know, common, I was used to it ain't no thing but a chicken wing. Just brush it off, just like everything else. But it really came to a head at this time and it helped me remember them saying things like, well, I don't know why people complain. If you just comply, the cops wouldn't do anything. And these were the exact same women who told me that they told cops to hurry up and give them the damn ticket. So those rules only applied to black people, they never applied to them. And so after this event, I attended some of the people. Many were very kind. The organizer of that event was pretty furious with me for reasons I never understood beyond just her racism. And I got home and about maybe two or three weeks later, I see this envelope in the mail with my name on it. And when I open the envelope, inside is a check that I have written to pay for the next year's event. That check was returned to me. Now, my dumb self, I say, oh, maybe the event has been canceled and it's just not happening anymore, and that's why my check was returned. So, like myself an eternal optimist, I contact the one person whose phone number I have and I say, hey, do you know if this is still going on? It's really strange. My check was returned and the person says to me, No, Lisa, I don't think it was canceled, and I think it was because you broke the rule. The rule was that Charlottesville was not to be discussed and you disgusted. Now trust me when I say I did not walk into this environment preparing to lecture these people about the dangers of anti fascism. I came because I wanted to sew some quilt blocks and that was what I wanted to work on and did. But that showed me a lot. It showed me a lot. And it's a beautiful quote that says that which breaks your heart can correct your vision. Because when I tell you, I was so sad, doctor Joy, I was so sad that these people had kicked me out. I was so sad, like on top of the trauma of the terror attack, now I have this, and so I thought something that I loved was taken away from me. And after I got finished being sad, then I got embarrassed because it made me wonder who did these people think I was all this time? Who did they think that I would sit idly by while to me, my children's lives are in danger from these white supremacists who think they can own our community. And so so that was when I hit the decision point, and it said, I will never again exchange my humanity in order to do what I love. And so I created Black Women's Stitch. I started just by posting on Instagram in twenty eighteen. I kept posting and it just came from there. I wanted it to be black from a distance, so that people saw that this was what we are, this is what we did, and I called it Black Women's Stitch, the sewing group where Black Lives Matter. That was what it was for, and anyone else could come and participate as they get in where you fit in kind of thing, but it was definitely meant to center and celebrate the black experience in sewing so that we didn't have to be the lonely onlies in many of these spaces. So again, that was a very long answer to your question, but that's how I got here.
No, thank you for sharing that. I appreciate all of that history. I don't even know that I knew that there were all those other rallies that summer, right so, I think, of course the one that everybody heard about was in August, but it sounds like there had been a long summer of really antagonizing.
Yes, yeah, absolutely, And one of the things we kept seeing was among white folks in particular, was this idea that if we ignore them, they will go away. And a lot of it was fighting apathy. And I finally got to the point where I said, you know what, you don't get to tell me how I resist this. You have no skin in the game, literally and figuratively. You don't get to tell me to do nothing, because nothing is what you are doing. And so it definitely means that Black Women's Stitch started in a place of resistance and then eventually became a place of respite because we do more than survive.
So tell me about your earliest memories sewing. Do you remember when the first time you picked up a thread and needle? Was it something that came easy to you.
It's so funny you say that, because my mother laughs at me to this day. My mother sewed, my grandmother sewed, my grandmother's grandmother sewed. All of us are from Florida. I have some cousins that are very into genealogy and they found all this information and my mother would sew are closed during the summertime. She made doll clothes. She made everything, and I wanted nothing to do with it. I remember sewing being a kid and being stuck with pins and having to stand still, and it's like my mother was also a really wonderful baker, and yet my sister loved nothing more than Public's cupcakes. That was me as well. It was, yes, you can sew, but I really want the guest jeans Jordash jeans from bird Eyes or from Jordan Marsh or wherever. I was not all interested in it, even though my mother was and still is if she feels like being bothered. Is a very talented seist and very talented with the sewing machine. I chose sewing when I was in graduate school because I needed something I could finish when I was working on my dissertation. I think I am a slow writer, and so it felt like, Okay, I got the course work done, I'm doing my tag, but this dissertation is taken an eternity, and it felt good to start with a piece of fabric and then end up with a duvet cover. And so I find sewing in that way to be powerfully transformative, and it really puts the means of creation in the hands of people. And so that goes to my overall idea about seeing sewing as a liberatory action that you can with Niela and thread radically transform something into something else and make it what you want. And I find that really powerful.
I love that so first. I love that she started in grad school and what a powerful example of being able to do something else during probably a very stressful time, right. And so this idea that like, Okay, this dissertation is stressing me out, but I can finish this thing, right, like I can start with fabric and create a duvet. I think that that's beautiful. And we know that there's so much research now. You may not have known this at the time, but there's so much research that talks about like doing things with your hand and being able to have many projects like this, and how this is actually good for our mental health.
Absolutely, I absolutely believe it to be true. And one of my favorite historians she was at Princeton. Her name is Nell Irvin Painter. She has done a ton of books, including some excellent research on so journal truth and right now she's writing a book on knitting. But she is a huge, big time historian at Princeton, and she would go to historical conferences and sit in the audience and knit. And no one is expecting someone as big time as her to be sitting and knitting, but that's what she did, and she's really amazing and very well regarded. But the idea that she would bring and could bring a needlecraft into a space that is seen as academic, I think for me, I always thought that was really powerful and just another great thing about her as a historian.
So, once you finally reclaimed your love and your family's love, it sounds like for sewing, what kinds of obstacles have you faced in kind of learning how to sew again for yourself?
I think one of the big obstacles has been understanding that many of the patterns that we have today, the sewing patterns, were not intended for the body that I have. In fact, they're not intended for many bodies. I've been doing some research and discovered that many of the measurements that we have today are based on a study from nineteen forty one of fourteen thousand white women. And if you look at the stuff and the report that you can find at the USDA website, it comes down to these very narrow prescriptions because they deliberately excluded measurements from non white women. And this is something people have talked about in other contexts about why American sizing for women's clothing is just so random, and that all that comes from having something called a fit model, which is where you make one size and you can then scale up or down. But they don't really fit anybody very well. So one of the obstacles that I've found is learning to modify these patterns and to maintain a sense of bodily optimism and integrity, because the pattern will have you believe that something is wrong with you, when in fact, something is wrong with the pattern. And so that was one of the obstacles. But after I think I figured that out and found the patterns that I liked and found the pieces that I liked, then was off to the races. It was no turning back. And now I've got hundreds upon hundreds of patterns and notebooks and binders and notes and everything like that to kind of help me get started. So I'm always encouraging everybody to sew. I do believe it is something that anyone can do. I think you just have to find what's right for you and no one has to do it. But I think nothing is beyond you. And I'd like to think that everything you are wearing right now was made by someone. Why not you?
Okay, So you're gonna have to take us back through this, Lisa, So how do we find patterns that we might like? So my mom also sold a lot when I was a kid, and I could remember us going to the store, and like, I think McCall's right, was that the pattern maker?
That's what? Okay?
So the call still in business? Like how are people finding patterns at this point?
Listen, the calls is in business. But something you might like to know, and I think that your audience might appreciate, is that there is a new pattern line that has started and it was created by a woman of color named Mimi g. They're called No Me Patterns. They are more size inclusive and most of their designers are people of color, including folks who are Atlanta based soists and designers. So you can find work by Aronica B Cole, for example, and she's based in Atlanta, The Corny Rainbow, These really bright, fun, interesting designs. I think the No Me Patterns started in twenty twenty two. I believe very new, very new, but they have really made some powerful contributions to the mainline of the pattern industry. In addition, a lot of independent people have individually transferred their frustration with the mainstream industry by making their own form of patterns. So you can get patterns that are meant for larger bodies, that are designed in style with things like biometrics in mind, and so you can get some really well fitting garments regardless of your size. And I think that that is one of the things about sewing that I love. I love that there is a way to make something do what you want and need it to do without having to do too much. And so the patterns themselves become a good way to translate your own vision for yourself. So, just for one quick example, I talked with a wonderful person. Her name's Martha McIntosh, and she talks about how she started sewing, and she's a plus sized sister, and she wanted this Ankara print dress. So she contacted the designer and sent in her measurements and the designer says, Okay, sure, I can make you this dress, but because of your size, it will be an extra three hundred and fifty dollars and she said no, thank you, and she took that three hundred and fifty dollars and bought a sewing machine and has never looked back. And when I tell you, the looks that she makes are fire. She sews carnival costumes, she sews her travel wardrobe, all of these things. I love the way that a sewing machine can turn a no into a yes.
Okay, Liza, now you're getting us all inspired. But I am thinking I'm not somebody who is like not. I don't feel like I'm quite inclined to be able to like look at a pattern and like have it come out to be something that's actually wearable. So if people are interested in starting to sew, where should we start, Like, what do we need to get started?
I think you should determine what is your learning style. Some people learn best from YouTube university, and some of the people that I mentioned, like Ironica Cole, for example, has a YouTube channel and you can go there and you can look and you can learn. People have broken down lots of different steps. And so if you're someone that likes to have a video and you can pause it and do side by side, then that's one way. There's also people that are teaching online on social media. There's a place called the Black Sewing Network and they live on TikTok and they do so alongs every single day, and you can go on there even if you're not going to get on screen or to join them. You can be in the comments and ask questions. You can watch them as they work through and make mistakes, and so that's another way to think about it. There's also local in person ways to meet up and do sewing. So if you have a sewing shop or a small quilt shop or even a Joeanne Fabrics, sometimes they'll have sewing shops inside those stores that offer lessons. In addition, places like the four H Club, different City and County extension programs, Scrap RVA, or Scrap Lanta in Atlanta, these folks might also have different programs. Anyone that's selling sewing machines tends to have sewing lessons, so you don't have to start alone. You could also find people that do one to one sessions online. So I know a lot of folks through Black Women's Stitch that are offering someone like Nicki Griffins, for example, who is also based in Atlanta. You can sign up and do a genes making class, bra making class, all of these different things, and they'll work with you side to side and help you with any questions or concerns you have. So I think there's lots of ways to learn. It's just a matter of finding what works best for you.
Okay, more from our conversation after the break. So what are some of the basic supplies we need to get started?
I think the basic supplies is a machine that is reliable, a sewing machine that is reliable, and that means what you want the sewing machine to do, because the sewing machines now can do so many more things than when I was a girl. They can cut the threads for you, they cannot them for you, they can thread the machine for you. It does all of these things so that you can get a good feeling of satisfaction. So I would say a good sewing machine, a good pair of scissors, and a good pair of snips, which are little tiny scissors that help you cut little tiny threads off. So those are some very basic things just to get started and then decide what kind of project you want to make. Are you someone who is good with well? Let me start with a tote bag just to get myself started. Do something simple. It has four seams. A pillowcase is another very easy, especially if you make it out of satin. We all love and need a satin line pillowcase. You can get some satin and make you a pillowcase, and that gives you a good feeling of satisfaction and surprising. Making underwear is one of the easiest things you can do, doctor Joy. It is so easy.
I'm laughing, Lisa, because you have taken me back to my home economics class where our project was to make a pair of boxer shorts.
Wasn't really Oh my god, I had no idea.
I was like, what a random choice? But now I hear you saying that that's a good starter project. So that's probably why we did.
It exactly because it's practical and even if you don't wear them as boxers, you can wear them just around the house to kick around or whatever. And I think it's some kind of really special feeling to put on clothes that you have made with your own hands. And it reminds me of that Bible verse. I'm gonna forget where it's from, but it's something about putting on the full armor of God. And sometimes I feel like when I am going into these spaces where I am not sure how I may or may not be received, I always take care to put on something that's gonna make me feel good, and typically the clothes that I make. Since I usually only wear clothes that I made, it's gonna be that and it reminds me as I'm wearing it that I can do hard things. It's reminding me as I wear it that I have the power of transformation in my own hands. And I think that that is one of the reasons I find sewing to be so empowering and really generative and overall encouraging for how one wants to live.
Thank you for that. So what kind of budget should we be thinking in term for a sewing machine? Like, what's the cheapest sewing machine somebody could kind of get started with.
Well, you could get cheap ones. I know they sell them at big box stores. The challenge with some of those is that they are just not reliable. I think one of the things that frustrates people is, Oh, this machine is no good or the tension was off or it never worked right, and you don't really have anybody to complain about. You can either return it to the store and get one just like it, or return it to the store and go someplace else. I tend to recommend that people do their best to work with a local dealer where you can go in person and find a machine that you want and somebody who will sit down next to you to help you. And if they don't do that, they'll have things like owners' classes. So I would say you could do it an intro level machine. I would say the low level would be about three hundred up to five for a very basic starter machine. It does not have a lot of bells and whistles, and it doesn't really need to until you know what you're interested in. I'm so glad you asked about price, because I'm never sure how much people think sewing machines cost, but a low cost sewing machine is about three hundred to five hundred dollars. The machine that I use was closer to six thousand dollars, and there are other machines that start at ten, ten to fifteen thousand dollars for a sewing machine. I do not recommend that anybody in the world get that for their first sewing machine unless you decide you hate it and then you want to give it to me at a discount, I'll totally buy it off you, and you can totally do it for a few hundred dollars and buying good needles and those kinds of things. And so for people looking to start something just to see if they would like it, I would say about three to five hundred to give yourself a good start. Remember getting high quality thread because different machines respond differently to different threads, high quality needles, all of these things are things that are easy to acquire and easy to maintain. And think of it as an investment. Yes, you might be spending more than you anticipated, but what you're going to be getting if it continues to be reliable for you, is years and years of really good use from that. And so even as you grow and maybe add to your collection of machines, you might say, okay, well I want to go up and get one that has a few more features, or something that does this a little more easily, or I want to add embroidery or whatever, and so you have room to grow, but I think you can get a very good starter machine for between three and five hundred dollars.
Got it. So something else I think that makes people a little hesitant to take up sewing is that it feels like it's a math heavy kind of a hobby and it feels very technical. So tell me how much math and calculation is actually involved with sewing?
For me, none, Praise God, because if this was a math heavy hobby, I would not be doing it. There are some things just knowing about fractions. About something called a seam allowance. That's where when you sew a stitch down, to the left of that stitch will be your garment. To the right of that stitch will be the allowance that little tiny strip of fabric on the other side of where your clothes are. That is the only thing you need to be mindful of is your seam allowance one quarter inch, which is what you use for quilting. Is it three ace inch, which is what you use in a lot of European and independent patterns, or is it five eighths inch, which is what you use when you're doing a standard McCall's type patterns. Almost all of the McCalls patterns, buttery patterns, Vogue patterns, and Simplicity patterns all use a five ace inch seam allowance, and so in terms of math, that's pretty much the basics for anyone who's getting started. Once you go into adjustments, that math is more simple. So if I say, well, my waist is this size, but this pattern is that size, the difference between my waist and the pattern waste is four inches, let me add four inches two inches in the front and two inches in the back, and then it'll fit me. So all the math I've ever done has been quite simple. It is not fortunately a math heavy type thing. It is something that once you read the directions and understand what you're being asked to do. And I have a friend who recommends Naomi P. Johnson says, read the directions three times. I read them one good time, and then I go back and look at it again and again, and then I make mistakes, and then I go back and look at the directions again. But you really can do it with a pretty much an ABC. And then, of course, in some ways mistakes are also a gift. Mistakes are part of the learning process, and you should never feel bad about it mistakes. If it doesn't work out, then you know what to do differently for next time. So it's absolutely a pretty forgiving hobby. If you make a mistake, you can just unsow it. It's not like it's sewn in stone or something like that. You can totally correct it, and then you can make something and then decide, oh, I like this element, but not that element, and then you can change it.
M mm hmm. So a huge part of you know, a new year is goal setting and like trying new things. What kinds of things should a beginning sow or have to look forward to in terms of milestone, so like in a month, in six months and a year, like what kinds of bitchmarks might they be able to use for themselves.
I really like that idea of documenting one sewing journey, and so some of the things that I thought about in my own journey was the first thing you make for yourself that you're proud of, the first thing you make for somebody else that you're proud of, the first thing that you make for your kitchen that you're excited about, the first thing that you make for your bedroom that you're happy about, the first garment, the first pair of pants that you're willing to wear outside of your house, the first time that you're able to turn that Gordon Gatrell into an actual wearable shirt. That's something to definitely celebrate. So there's tons of milestones depending on the sewing you're wanting to do. If you want to start with quilting, if you want to start with home decorations you're interested in. Curtains are expensive, but fabric is a lot less expensive, and so if you can figure out how to make curtains, you could save yourself a lot of money. It is not often the case anymore that sewing will save you money to make clothes. I think that between fast fashion as well as big box stores, we can get clothes for cheaper than I could sit down and make them. But what you cannot buy in the store are things that are so unique to you, things that when I choose, I might buy a pattern and my friend buys the exact same pattern and we both make it. It looks totally different because we've chosen different fabrics, Our bodies are different, our styling is different, and so there really is a great benefit to making pieces that uniquely reflect what your creative process is and speak to your style. And I think that that is something that as one goes through the sewing journey. After you've gone through the pillowcases and the baby bibs and the tote bags and the pull on boxer shorts, and you know, all these different things, you grow into a belief in your own competency. And so trying different materials, sewing with a woven fabric versus a knit fabric, so on, with something that's stretchy versus something that's like denim. All of these are ways that you can grow and share your sewing story as you're moving through the process. And I think that is so wise to keep track of your milestones because it is, in deed, a journey, and I think people progress through this faster than they even imagine, especially if they get the bug and they start to really love it. They move very quickly from one phase to the next.
Okay, Lisa, so you are a very busy sister, like many of our community members, right, So when are you making time for sewing? And like what could that look like for other people? Like when are they adding this into their schedule?
So there's lots of different ways to go about it. I find that for me, I'm a good nighttime person. I find it relaxing. I find it like after a long day, like of work, I'll come home and have dinner and then say, like, rather than like sit in front of the TV or watch Netflix, I will go into the sewing room or I'll put the Netflix on in the sewing room and I'll be watching and listening and deciding what I want to sew next. There's also a sister, Brittany J. Jones, who's also based in Atlanta. Oh, y'all in Atlanta, now that I think of it, she has this pro call thirty minutes to sew, and she just does it, even in the middle of a busy workday. She says, you know what, I got thirty minutes. She will set a timer and put that timer next to the sewing machine and will do nothing but sewing tasks for those thirty minutes. And she's able to get a lot made. And so I think about if you can incorporate it into your daily life and schedule, that's gonna look different for everybody. I have a friend who is a planner, and she loves to plan, and so she'll look at her weekly planner and say, Okay, on Monday, I will pick out the pattern. On Tuesday, I will cut it out on Wednesday, I will lay out my fabric. On Thursday, I will So it's really about choosing what works best for your schedule. And now that my kids are grown and pretty much out of the house, I don't need to snatch nighttime hours anymore. But I got so accustomed to that. Okay, the kids are asleep, now, it's my time, and so that time translated into sewing time since they're grown now. So I think whatever works organically for your lifestyle, if it means, hey, I'm on my lunch break at work, I'm going to pick out a few patterns on the internet, I'm going to buy some fabric or whatever. So that's how I tend to kind of incorporate it. I do try to carve out distinct time and try to protect that time, and that if I can, I'll incorporate it while I'm also doing other things.
Got it, Okay, So squeezing it in and making it time. Like you said, we have thirty minutes to watch a Netflix show, we could be doing that at the same time as we're.
Sewing at the same time. Absolutely love it.
More from our conversation after the break. So I imagine that when people first start out sewing, they may run into some hiccups, get a little frustrated. How do we know when it's time to step away from the sewing and put the needles down.
My rule is, and I learned this from somebody else, is when I make three mistakes the row. If I'm working on something and it's the same project and I've sown it backwards, I'm like, Okay, that's just a mistake. I'm gona check that out. And then I sew it sideways and it's like, okay, I'm gonna take it out, and then I sew it crossway. If I make a mistake three times, that shows that my fatigue is taken over for me. And this was something that's happened. Over time, you just get better and so you make fewer mistakes, and then it lets you sew for longer periods of time. But you have to give yourself the chance and the invitation even to make mistakes. And so one of the things that we'll do and sewing, it's called making a muslin m us l i n and muslin is a type of cheap cotton fabric, and that word is used to describe making a sample garment. So if you have fabric that you love and it's really precious, and you don't want to cut that up. To see how it's gonna work. You'll get some muslin fabric, our sample fabric and make a sample garment. That's a great opportunity to test out how it's going to go. And you make all your mistakes on that, and then when you get your real fabric you can have smooth sailing. But I think if people could be a little kinder to themselves and just accept mistakes as part of the learning process, then people would be less afraid, I think, to take it up and to run with it.
I feel like I'm hearing all these beautiful mental health analogies in the way you are talking about sewing, right, So you're basically talking about self compassion, right, being able to forgive ourselves, and this idea that if you make a mistake, you just unsow it right, so that few things are permanent. We can make mistakes and still recover.
Absolutely, Yes, absolutely, And I think that's because some people say sewing is my therapy, and I say, oh no, man, therapy is my therapy. Sewing is therapeutic. It is something for me that has brought me peace. It feels like I'm closer to my ancestor. It feels like I'm stepping into a story that was already sewn and written for me, and all I had to do was recognize that it was there. It helped me to heal after some really painful losses, and it became as I started to do it in Sisterhood with Black Women, it became such a powerful reminder of that which I had already grown up with. Like my mother and her cousins and her mother would get together at our house and the sewing machines would be all set up, and the TV would be on and the kids running around and somehow the radio was also on, and everybody's cackling and laughing and key keying and girl, come over here, stand still, you know. Like that was the kind of loving environment, very loving environment in which I was raised, and sewing was a key part of that. So in creating Black Women's Stitch, it felt like I was coming home, and in coming home, I was able to create a space for other sisters to join me, And that has been one of the ways that sisterhood heals shows up for me in the work that I'm doing.
I love that thank you for that leaf.
So what are some of the things you.
Would it like caution beginning sewers again about or if there are some things that you wish you would have known when you picked sewing back up, what kinds of things would those be.
I think the first thing I would say is don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. There is nothing you can do with a sewing machine that is going to cause dangerous, powerful harm to other people. I think that something like, oh I'm afraid of this sewing. I'm a Frian'm like, well, you drive a car. A car is very dangerous, and people get into a car and drive and don't even think about it. There is nothing that you can do short of sewing your finger, which I have done two times. And see I said too, because after over twenty years of I have only sowed my finger twice. Because you do it once and that's enough. It forces you to pay attention after that. And so I think one of the things I would caution people to do is to step into it with a spirit of curiosity, don't feel like you have to do it right, and don't compare yourself to anybody else. You're not trying to make the pattern look exactly like the picture on the envelope, because your picture is not on the envelope. So I would encourage people to be kind with themselves and to begin with something that they think they want to do. A lot of sewing teachers will say, here's a tote bag because this is the easiest thing to show somebody, or a pillowcase because it's the easiest thing to show someone. But I've an own people who have said, I like this dress, it's a rap dress, and I want to make it. And they took the time and they made it, and they were satisfied with the outcome. It was something that they could wear, and while they would get better over time, they're satisfaction was the perfection. Being satisfied and happy and proud of what you've done. It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. And so I would caution people to think about what it is they want to make, and to follow that curiosity and be kind to themselves along the way, and then you'll be more into it.
So you talked about this a little bit, but you are also the host of an amazing podcast, Stitch Please, which is such a great name. I love that as a podcast name, tell me a little bit more about the podcast and what kinds of topics you discussed.
So, the Stitch Please Podcast is a weekly audio show where we center black women, girls and fems in sewing. And we've had over two hundred episodes, and through the course of that, I've talked to so as who just started a year ago. I've talked to people who went to fashion design school, people who are currently in design school. I've talked to museum curators, artists, quilters, business owners, hobbyists, people that are involved in all different aspects of sewing, authors of books, people that are interested in sustainability. Almost anything you can think of, we've been able to talk about through the lens of sewing. And it has been really a powerful journey because I never expected it to grow in the way that it did. And I have spoken to a few people and they're like, well, do you think you might be exhausting the topic by now, And I'm like, I don't think so. I'm not talking to every black person in the world yet, So I think I got a little ways to go yet. Because what's been so surprising is that regardless of the person's position, whether they are a museum curator, or a professional artist, or a quilt teacher or someone who designs patterns. All of them have a really beautiful story of creativity that we can all learn from. And I see my task as building that archive of information to be a repository to come back and to get affirmation and to get a sense of wonder, like, Oh, this person has done this, I can do it too. One of my recent episodes toward the end of twenty twenty three was with a student that I had spoken with when she started fashion school. I interviewed her she was a freshman, a first year student in fashion school, and then when I interviewed her most recently, she was between being on New York Fashion Week where she had some pieces in New York Fashion Week, and in the following week she was going to Paris for Paris Fashion Week. So the idea of being able to kind of follow along with someone's journey like that to ask her what is fashion school like, what can someone expect? What are some of the kind of things that you do? What does it mean to major in apparel? These are the kind of things that I wouldn't know because I've never been to fashion of design school, but the fact that I can bring that forward to other people, and I'm just so grateful to both I think be a possibility model and to speak with possibility models for nearly every single episode, And that's what I think. I want us to remember that we are limitless. Like Beyonce says, that we live and are situated in an abundant universe, and we participate in that actively and robustly, and that we can believe in ourselves and each other that we are enough, that we are a universe. And that's something that the show has shown me over time.
Oh I love that so beautiful. Thank you so much for that, Lisa. So, in addition to all the other things you're doing, you're also working on a nonfiction book called Black Women's Stitch Liberation. Can you give us a little bit of a sneak peek of the book in what you're hoping for the book to do?
Thank you. Yes, I'm really excited about it. And what I'm trying to do is to talk about the ways that sewing is an act and practice of liberation. I think that we've thought in really powerful ways about black women and rest black women and sisterhood black women and community, And what I see in sewing is a combination in some ways of all of that. It is a way that by talking with individual people, I'll be going back through some episodes of the podcast and revealing how black women stitch things like justice, how questions of liberation show up in something like size inclusion, how black women in terms of sustainability, how we've been able to honor our ancestors. All of these things are practices that we're able to do with a needle and thread. And so the subtitle of the book is when freedom is fed with needle and thread, and that freedom takes the form of not just political and cultural freedom, but also personal the idea to stitch what you need. When somebody says no, you can't, you and your sewing machine can say yes, I can. And I find that such a powerful thing, particularly in the society in which we live that is bombarding Black women with all manner of misagnir and negative messaging about our capacity. And so it feels like a reminder and an invitation to step into our wholeness and that this is just one way to do it.
So do we have a date when we can expect to get our hands on it.
We do not not yet, so we'll just have the state tuned. No, ma'am exactly, it's listen. We all all be surprised.
So I feel like you have already given us lots of great resources. It sounds like there's a TikTok channel that you recommend. What other resources might you suggest for somebody who's interested in learning more about sewing or participating in some of these classes.
I think I would say to just look to your local area. If you are a person that learns best in person, see if you can find some of these groups that I mentioned. See if there is a sewing machine shop near you that you feel comfortable going to and working with. Find other influencers that might be in your area. People are often doing like meetups. There's a group called Atlanta Sewing Style, for example, and they get together and do like photo shoots and sewing stuff. And there's similar arrangements around the country. And if you don't see what you need, it is okay to build it, and you don't have to do it alone. I know folks in Dallas, in Houston, in Atlanta, in Chicago, all these places where people are getting together and coming together to build too what they need, so that's another opportunity, and also again reaching out to folks like on YouTube. You never know, like if someone has a YouTube channel, they'll be willing to come and say, Hey, I have a group of people together. Would you come and speak to our group or would you offer some advice about how we can build? Those are other things too that people can do to connect. So that's something that I was doing before I decided to just finally build what I needed. And I also encourage and invite us. And it's so tough, right, doctor Joy, because we're already so busy, We already have so much going on, Like why do I have to make everything? I'm already trying to figure out how to navigate work, I'm trying to figure out navigating home, I'm working in the community and love, et cetera, et cetera. Why do I have to do this? And I was in that position for quite some time, but for me it became urgent. And it doesn't necessarily need to be urgent, but for me, it became urgent, and that is why I ended up building what I have done and hope to continue to grow and move it in a positive and very slowly. You know, I've not thought about scale yet because it's just so challenging, But I think that we can care well for ourselves, and in caring well for ourselves, we also care well for others. And so just remember that you're worth it, that we are worth it, and that we are absolutely able to find what we need, get the resources, get advice, and move forward from there.
So where can people stay connected with you? Lisa? What is your website? As well as any social media handles you'd like to share.
You can find me. I'm Black Women's Stitch everywhere, black Womenstitch dot org, which is our website, Black Women's Stitch on Twitter, Black Women's Stitch on TikTok, and I'm most active on Instagram at Black Women's Stitch. And the stitch Plase podcast is available on all podcast platforms. If you look somewhere and you can't find it, please tell me. I'd love to know where that was, but.
It should be everywhere. We will be sure to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today, Lisa. I really appreciate it.
Thank you, doctor Joy, and I want to thank you just not only for this conversation, but I want to thank you for all the work that you've done in these beautiful conversations, in the community that you've created, in the booklists that you do, and in your own book, Sisterhood Heels. I can tell you I listen to the audio book, which makes it feel like you're talking only to me and me alone, and I really appreciate that private narration session. It really feels like you are It's like, just like you and Michelle Obama, you're only reading the book to me, and I appreciate spending that quality time with you.
Thank you so much. I appreciate you, Lisa.
I appreciate you. Thank you.
I'm so glad Lisa was able to join us for this conversation. To learn more about her and the work she's doing, be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com slash Session three four zero, and don't forget to text two of your girls right now and tell them to check out the episode. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at the Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com slash directory. And if you're looking for a support system to aid you in your New Year journey. Join us over in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet where we celebrate support and practice vulnerability. Every week this January, we're setting the foundation to turn our resolutions into realities. Join us at Community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. This episode was produced by Frieda. Lucas, Elis Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.
What's