Session 336: Black Girl Nerds

Published Dec 6, 2023, 8:00 AM

The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

Can you think of a time when your nerdy interests were healing for you? It could be that comfort anime that always brings your spirits up, the video game you play when you want to escape the world, or that time when you knew you looked good as hell cosplaying at a convention with your besties. To chat with TBG about all things fandom & wellness, today we're joined by author, worldbuilder, and nerdy creator Jacque Aye. Jacque is a vocal supporter of mental health awareness and self-care amongst Black women, advocating for those suffering from depression and social anxiety. In her fiction work, she writes about women with a surrealist, magical touch.

Some of the themes that came up in today’s conversation include how to cultivate a community within fandom spaces, the importance of showing up as one’s true, nerdy self, and the ways in which our favorite games and TV shows can make talking about mental health issues more accessible.

 

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    Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard

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    Production Intern: Zariah Taylor

    Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional.

    Hey, y'all, thanks for tuning in for session three thirty six of a Therapy Black Girl's podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors.

    Introducing our new Therapy for Black Girl's holiday gift collection. A new ensemble of drinkwaar totes, journals, and sweaters were made to remind you of the importance of centering your mental health. Purchase your tvg gifts at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash shop. Happy holidays, y'all, remember to take good care and give good gifts.

    Hi everyone, my name is Zaria Taylor and I am a sophomore Documentary filmmaking major and philosophy minor attending the SPILM in college. You've likely heard my questions, read my show notes, and listen to podcast episodes that I've pitched. Since the beginning of this summer, I have been the TVG podcast production intern. As an intern, I was tasked to pitch and produce a TPG podcast episode from start to finish. What You're about to hear is a project that represents the culmination of everything I've learned from the wonderful TBG team during my time as an intern. You're in for a treat. Can you think of a time when your nerdy interests were healing for you. It could be that comfort anime that always bends your spirits up, the video game you play when you want to escape the world, or that time when you knew you look good as hell cosplaying at a convention with your besties. To chat with TBG about all things fandom and wellness, Doctor Joy is joined today by author, world builder and nerdy creator Jackie A. Jackie is a vocal supporter of mental health awareness and self care amongst black women, advocating for those suffering from depression and social anxiety. In her fiction work, she writes about women with the surrealist magical touch. Some of the themes that came up in today's conversation include how to cultivate a community within fantom spaces, the importance of showing up as one's true nerdy self, and the ways in which our favorite games and TV shows can make talking about mental health issues more accessible. If something resonates with you while enjoying today's conversation, please share it on social media using hashtag tvg in session, or you can join us in the sister Circle talk about the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation.

    Thank you so much for joining me today, Jackie.

    Thank you for having me.

    I'm so excited, very excited to chat with you. So we are tapping into our black girl nerve bag today and I want to hear from you, like, what is your earliest memory of nerding out to something? Was there a particular movie, a comic? What was your first nerd experience?

    I would definitely say Sailor Moon watching Sailor Moon with my older brother and we shared a bunk bed. He was super into power Rangers. He was super into like Pokemon, Digimon and all of that, and so I would just be under my blanket watching along with him and being in awe of all the colorful images on the screen, the powerful women, the magic I loved it. So yeah, that's my earliest memory.

    And any particular character on Sailor Moon.

    Oh, of course, the main girl, Usagi. I definitely relates to her because she is a cry baby, but she still manages to save the day, and so it's very inspiring to me as somebody who has intense social anxiety that I can go cry the bathroom and still come out and like slay.

    So love it.

    Love it.

    So you mentioned that you're my brother was a fan of the genre as well, But was there any particular response that you got from your family when you express more interest in kind of these nerdier, maybe more fringe things.

    Yeah, no, not at all. My parents are both Nigerian immigrants, so for them everything was new. So me watching my weird cartoons, it wasn't anything weird to them because everything is new to them. So they've always kind of encouraged me to like lean into my interests, which I know is different for a lot of first generation Nigerian kids. But yeah, my parents have always pretty much been, especially my mom, pretty supportive of whatever weird ideas I come up with or whatever weird things that I indulge in.

    Nice, So you mentioned Sailor Moon was one of your favorites. Are there others that you feel like you really related to you especially as a younger person.

    Okay, so I can actually speak to ones I relate to now as an adult.

    I don't know.

    I find more inspiration anime now. When I was a kid, I was like, oh, ye, keep you fighting. But now I actually just wrote about this in my newsletter. I have a newsletter I sent out weekly called Diary of a Said Black Girl. We're talking about like healing after hustling and everything like that, and I just spoke about one piece. It's a show about pirates, and you would think, where are you getting inspiration from this show? Right? But the main character, Lucy, he's like, I want to be the King of Pirates, and he is so inspirational in his chasing after his goals and inspiring others to chase after their goals too, even when they directly oppose him. And so I'm like, that is the kind of person, the kind of spirit that I want it embody. It's just that person who keeps trying and keeps going even after failure or even after people try to hold you back, or even after being like ridiculed, which a lot of nerds are probably used to. And so i'd say, right now, One Piece is inspiring me the most.

    Okay, I love that, And you know, I do feel like that is a part of the draw for a lot of people in anime, Like it definitely feels like they're able to take lessons and apply to their own life, or there's something the character is going through and it makes them rethink things about their own life. So I appreciate you sharing that. For anybody who's looking for new things to watch, I'm sure they want to check out One Piece. So, Jackie, where are people watching anime? Are you watching it like mostly online? Oh?

    Yeah, for sure, Country Roll, Funimation, Netflix, Hulu, Hbo Max. You can pretty much watch anime anywhere now. Back in the day, it was only like Tsunami on Cartoon Network at a certain time, But now like anime is write out our fingertips everywhere? Got it?

    Okay?

    Perfect?

    Perfect? So, in addition to being a fan of all of these shows. You are also an author, and so you authored the Nigerian manga series Adorned by Chi. So I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about what inspired you to write, especially in this genre where you're not typically seeing a lot of black authors.

    Yeah, So what inspired me was I was constantly seeing myself in characters who didn't look like me, which isn't a problem because I still identify with characters like Usagi can say with Moon or Lufy from one Piece. But I just thought like, what is stopping me from making characters that look like me and the people I know that we can relate to too in a genre that we all love. And so that along with wanting to explore my own Nigerian heritage, mix it all together.

    That's how I came up with the Burbaichi.

    Even though I've been a writer, not publicly, but like I've been a writer since I was a kid, and so I was always interested in storytelling. So it was like three things I love, which is storytelling, anime and manga and my Nigerian culture and representation so I can score things. And then also each character was inspired by people that I know in my personal life, the main character also has social anxiety. You have characters dealing with abandonment issues and grief and everything like that. I always try to mold in bake in mental health talk and exploration.

    And everything that I do. I didn't even know I was.

    Doing it when I was writing, but now I'm consciously aware that this is something that I care about, is talking about these issues.

    So I know that you are also in school to become a therapist. So with your experience in the mental health field, you just talked about like having to write characters that experience things like social anxiety and abandonment, can you talk a little bit about what that experience is like writing from that angle?

    Cathartic, it is kothardic. I enjoy discussing things that I've been through, things that people I love to care about have been through, and even things that I've learned. And I want people to feel seen through the characters that I create. But I also want to give people like the tools and coping mechanisms to deal with the issues at hand too, And so even though my license yet, but it's the goal. I try to do what I can with what I know through fiction.

    Nice nice. So we've talked to other guests here on the podcast about black girls and black women in nerdy spaces, and we know that it is not always the most hospitable environment for black women and girls. Can you talk a little bit about what your experience has been as you've been the leader in the field and have hosted events. What kinds of experiences have you had and how did you find your voice as the black woman in the field.

    So with my experience, luckily, because I cultivated a community of like kind, caring and empathetic people, I tend to avoid those kind of super toxic vibes, but I see that they're there, and I see that people in my circles are highly affected by it. There's a lot of misogyny, there is a lot of racism. A lot of these characters do not look like us. But when we try to engage and cosplay and have fun, you have people saying you can't do that because you're black, you know, and things like that, or you don't really like this stuff because you're a woman. And so I've dealt with some of the misogyny being a nerdy woman and engaging with men in the space. But for the most part, I stick to who I call my magical girls, my magical girl gang, where we talk about feelings and fiction and magic and it's safe over here.

    Can you say a little bit more about how you went about creating that community or finding space, is that we're more affirming?

    Yeah, So I think it has to do with a lot of what I personally talk. Like I was saying earlier, I talked and write about mental health. I talk and write about things like grief and coping and things like that, And so when people enter into my space, they already know that this is a space where we can talk about deeper issues in a safe environment. And so I think just kind of like wearing what you're about on your chest kind of helps because I find that super toxic people find my spaces to be boring because there is no room for that over here. And I do hope that over time, with more exposure and more like events, like there's an event called dream Con that's all about black nerds and it's very lit. Everybody loves it. It's growing exponentially. I feel like the more we all engage with each other, the less the misogyny and the racism will exist.

    I hope fingers cross.

    But yeah, more from our conversation after the break.

    So, besides your magical girl gang, can you talk about any other communities where black women might be able to find spaces that kind of foster that camaraderie.

    Yes.

    So on the gaming side, there is a community called Black Girl Gamers, and I know that they are safe space for women in gaming. Like I said, dream Con, it's hosted by prominent members of anime community. It's a collective called RDC, and I know they care a lot about creating safe spaces for women. They're men, but they see what happens to women. And I know that they've been cultivating spaces within their own spaces where women can feel safe.

    So those are the two that come to mind.

    So you've talked about how kind of anime and in these spaces you found a respite for kind of working through some of your own mental health challenges. Can you talk a little bit more about how being a part of fandoms has cultivated your mental health.

    I think that being able to speak about mental health issues through the lens of these characters like Soggi probably having anxiety, Lucy dealing with people stumping on his dreams. I think that being a nerd kind of provides a perfect vessel to talk about these issues, but through these characters in a way that's more I guess that just accessible. Yeah, excess, thank you, accessible as the morn.

    Yeah.

    And so I enjoyed talking about issues through the lens of my favorite characters, my favorite shows, and I find that it opens up other people when I have these discussions too, They're like, yeah, yeah, no, I felt that way too, Like I've gone through this too.

    Can you give some examples, Jackie, of some of the characters and shows that kind of have some of these mental health angles.

    Yes, Okay. So there's a show called Watimote and the main character has intense social anxiety, like she goes to McDonald's and can't even plays an order anxiety. And I relate to that so bad, Oh my gosh, because I've gone to places where I'm stuttering and stumbling and everything over my words, where I'm shaking a sweater and I'm like, ah, So to see that in the medium that I enjoy and to see it so like obvious. And then also I keep circling back to one piece, but it's the last thing I watched in One Piece, the main character, I'm neuro divergent. Main character is definitely giving neuro divergent vibes to me. He has a strong sense of justice, he is very open minded to people. He's very very laser focused on his goal and that they if he enjoys, and so I can relate to that. And then there are shows like Wonder Egg Priority that deals with actually suicide where every episode the characters battle monsters that represent the mental health issues of young women who have committed suicide. And so it's like, you think that anime is fun and fights and adventure, but there are also shows that really dive deep into different issues.

    So, Jackie, have you seen any resources? I'm curious, you know, like a show like that, if you just stumble upon it and don't necessarily know what the content is, are there resources that you've seen that help people to kind of process what they're seeing, or you know, help the process after they've watched.

    No, that would be great if there was a warning or any sort of resources after the showing, But like no, I went in there kind of blind and I was like, oh, this is very deep. So I would definitely suggest looking up the show that you're about to watch, seeing if there's any content warnings or trigger warnings before you watch the show, because the thing with anime is the show will look one way and then you watch it and it's totally different that you expected. So I suggest always looking up the trigger warnings before you watch any show.

    It all, I'm wondering, Jackie, as you continue with your training to become a therapist, have you already thought about and I can't imagine that you wouldn't like marry your interest in like these nerdier things and anime and that kind of thing with clinical practice or you know, talking about mental health kinds of topics.

    Yeah, when it comes to talking about mental health topics and anime and nerd stuff, I already do that. But when it comes to like marrying my professional practice with who I am in the nerds space, I've already decided to keep it separate because I have a great fear of birth of the code of ethics or doing something wrong, maybe anxiety, and so I definitely want to keep those two things separate. But I do want to take what I learned and then reflect it in my nerd content as well. So it's like secret but like still share with everybody.

    It's interesting to hear you say that because I feel like i've seen now. Granted, I think the people I'm thinking of are white men, so we know that, you know, they can occupy a very different space. But I've definitely seen male therapists talk about video games and like they use that as a part of their practice, and you know, have whole groups around social anxiety and gaming and like use the game content to really, you know, kind of work through some clinical pieces. So it's interesting to hear you say that you're hoping to completely avoid that and keep it completely separate.

    Oh yeah, yeah, well not completely separate content wise, but just like you know how Superman has his secret identity and then he works at the Daily Viegle or wherever he works. That's how I ought to be. Where I work, it's private, but the content things that I learned, I will definitely mix it in with the anime and the nerd stuff. I just have to find a way to do it in a way where I feel like my license is safe. Because something I understand the line, and I'm sure you've seen it too, is I've seen black you know, therapists be like and so I want to avoid at all costs.

    Got it, got it, understandable, understandable. So I'm curious, Jackie, at the beginning of the pandemic around how many people were soothing with Animal Crossing. Can you talk a little bit about any games or movies or cartoons or anime episodes that have been particularly soothing for you?

    Oh? Yeah, I mean Animal Crossing for sure, it's like very relaxing. But there are two things in particular, one show episode and one movie that I watch over and over again, and so for feelings of burnout and burnout recovery, I see just people watch Kiki's Delivery Service. It's a Haya Miyazaki movie about a little witch who loses her magic and she has to regain it over time, and so I relate to her because, as I said earlier in the podcast, I had to pump the brakes on everything in my life at some point because I was losing my magic and dealing with burnout and I'm just now getting over it. And so Kiki's Delivery Service is one of the movies that I watch to kind of inspire me and let me know that it's okay to chill and then get back to it. And then I don't know if you've heard of the show Recess. It was on Disney Channel. Yeah, there's an episode of Recess called Nobody Doesn't Like TJ. So TJ is the most popular kid in school. Everybody likes TJ. There's nobody who doesn't like him except for one kid. And so TJ spends the whole episode doing everything he can but this one kid. I think he even saves his life low key in the end, and he's like, so do you like me? You know you like me now, like I did all this for you, and the kid's like, no, I don't. I just don't like you. And so that episode, like when I watch it as a kid, and even when I watch it now as an adult, it's inspiring because it's like, Okay, you're not always going to be like you can't always strive for this like idealistic perfect I don't even know how to describe it, Like you just won't always be like by everybody, no matter how hard you try. And I think a lot of anxiety comes from trying to get that sense of perfection and everything like that. And so when I watch that show, I'm like, Okay, even TJ was disliked, it's okay, and sometimes it's nothing you did. Sometimes people just don't like it. So those are like my soothing pieces of media.

    I love that. That sounds like a great watch. I'm gonna have to go try to find that one.

    Yes.

    More from our conversation after the break.

    So what advice would you have for young black girls who are interested in nerdy things but may be afraid to express this interest.

    I would say that you should nerd out loud, because the louder you are about your interests and the things that you like, the more you become like a homing beacon for other people who think like you and feel like you. I'm a black girl, child of immigrants growing up in the Middle Kansas, So for me to find people who were on the same wavelength as me, I thank god for the Internet and I was able to share and share and share on the inn, which is how I ended up on this podcast too, and find like minded people like me. So if you just keep being yourself, even in the midst of criticism, even in the midst of self doubt, just keep being yourself, and the people that you were supposed to vibe with will rock with you.

    I love that. Thank you so much for that, Jackie. So I love it if you could share, like one of your most favorite experiences from like a con that you've gone to, are some kind of event that really affirmed for you that you were in the right place.

    Definitely dream Con.

    I know I've brought it up like three times now, but I went to dream Con last year for the first time as a civilian. Like I usually go to cons to represent my business and my brand and things like that, the last year, because I was in my season of rest, I just went for fun and it was so fun. I'm not usually one who goes to like after con parties or like connecting people after the convention that I put myself out there and because of things like massage mey and stuff like that, I usually avoid certain spaces. But at dream Con, those spaces were so safe, so fun, and I just had a great time connecting with everybody. So I definitely suggest if you're going to go to any convention, go to that one.

    Perfect. So I have a couple of rapid fire questions for you that I'd love for you to answer. So the first one is, what is an anime that you'd recommend to first time watchers.

    Okay, so I would recommend Full Metal Alchemists. I think that it is a fun adventure. There's lots of deep themes, like anime is just teeming with deep things. Actually, it's a short watch. I believe it's around fifty episodes, so it won't be overwhelming because I think One Piece is at a thousand now. But Full Metal Alchemists I feel like girly things like me. Of course, Sailor Moon is a great first watch. And then also if you like superheroes, a show called Tiger and Bunny.

    So who is the character that you haven't cosplayed as that you want to someday?

    Mmm?

    Oh my gosh, Sister Knight from Watchmen? Did you watch Watchmen with Virgin? I did?

    Yeah, yes, yes, yeah.

    Ever since I saw her costume, I'm like, oh, I want to be Sister Knight.

    So that's what we love it.

    What comic book are manga? Have you read more than once?

    Hmmm?

    Let's see. It's snot Girl, So it's not a manga. It's a comic book by the same guy I believe he did Scott Pilgrim Versus the World. It's about a influencer named Lottie. She literally just has a problem with Scott. That's why it's called girl. It's very surreal, it's very weird. It's even hard to explain the plot, but the vibes are immaculate. So I suggest that everybody read It's not Girl.

    All right?

    And what's a game you've played lately that you've really enjoyed.

    I'm definitely a Sims floor girl. I love sims FO. I love when you play on PC. You can add a bunch of modifications. So give my character social anxiety because I just kind of want to live through you for the day, or you really do anything. You can raise an alien, have a vampire, the husband sims fourth grade.

    So how can people stay connected with you? Jackie? What is your website as well as any social media channels you'd like to share.

    So people can check out more of me at my website jackiea dot com. That's ja c q U E A y E dot com. If you're interested in very candid, quote unquote diary entries that I send out weekly, you can check out my Diary of a Sad Black Woman that's JACKIEA dot sulkstack dot com. I've been documenting how I've been rebuilding my life, so if you like, come on this Starney with me. Check it out. And I Jackie a on all social media platforms.

    And we talked about the Adorned by Chia book. But you have a couple of other books. Do you want to tell people about those books and where they can find them?

    Yes?

    So I have The Magical Girl's Guide to Life, which is actually, like we were discussing, mixing mental health with magical girls and saving the day through self care. I also have How to Be a Better Adult. That one is a very very weird book, admittedly weird book about a young neuro divergent black woman who feels like a failed adult and then she finds a magical handbook like we al wish we had an adult handbook, and she follows it to the tea with disastrous results. I actually just wrapped up a kickstarter for another book called I Lived to Served, which it is a magical mystery, the very first romance I've ever written, because usually I'm just all about magic and weird themes. But I took a stab at Rowe, so that's what I've thought. So fall in my repas Fall, So yeah, just check that out.

    When you cosette perfect, We'll be sure to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today, Jackie.

    Thank you.

    Once again. I'm so glad that Jackie was able to join me for this conversation to learn more about her and the work she is doing. Be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three thirty six, And don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and myself Zaria Taylor. Editing is by Dennison L. Bradford. What's

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