While Andy Williams famously proclaimed this to be the most wonderful time of the year, we know that the holiday season can be more than a little stressful for many of us. Whether we’re navigating changing traditions, grieving the loss of a family member, or considering opting out of the holidays entirely, the question becomes how to communicate these feelings to our family members, friends, and others we may usually celebrate this time with.
Joining me to help sort out these holiday-induced stressors is returning guest Nedra Glover Tawaab. Nedra is a licensed therapist, sought-after relationship expert, and the author of New York Times bestsellers Set Boundaries, Find Peace and Drama Free. Nedra has appeared as an expert on Red Table Talk, The Breakfast Club, Good Morning America, and the CBS Morning Show, just to name a few. During our conversation, Nedra and I discuss ways you might share a grievance with a family member without severing the relationship, navigating holiday-induced grief, and communicating a change in tradition or a decision to stay home for the holidays.
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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session three thirty five of the Theory for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors introducing our new Therapy for Black Girls Holiday gift collection. Our new ensemble of drinkwaar totes, journals and sweaters were made to remind you of the importance of centering your mental health. Purchase your TVG gifts at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash shop. Happy Holidays, y'all, remember to take good care and give good gifts. While Andy Williams famously proclaimed this to be the most wonderful time of the year. We know that the holiday season can be more than a little stressful for many of us, whether we're navigating changing traditions, grieving the loss of a family member, are considering opting out of the holidays entirely. The question becomes how to communicate these feelings to our family members, friends, and others we may usually celebrate this time with. Joining me today to help sort out these holiday induce stressors is Returning Guests Nedra Glover to WAB. Nedra is a licensed therapist, sought after relationship expert, and the author of New York Times bestsellers Set Boundaries, Find Peace, and Drama Free. Nedra has appeared as an expert on Red Table Talk, The Breakfast Club, Good Morning America, and The CBS Morning Show, just to name a few. In our conversation today, Nedra and I discuss ways you might share a grievance with a family member without severing the relationship, navigating holiday induced grief, and communicating a change in tradition or a decision to stay home for the holidays. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in session or join us over in the sister circle to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us again today, Deadre.
I'm happy to be back.
Yes, this is your third time with us here in the chair. The last time you visited with us was in twenty twenty one. We are talking all about maintaining digital boundaries. So update us on what has changed, what has happened since we last chatted.
While I have a newer book, Drama Free, where I talk about family relationships and how we can make them healthier, how we can be healthier in them because most of the time it is us making the changes, not those family members. So that is my newest book, Drama Free.
Yes. Yeah, So we are embarking upon the holiday season and we know that this is one time of the year where those boundaries can be really, really helpful. So can you walk us through some of the difficult feelings and situations that you've heard from clients, are just people in your community that are difficult to really manage during the holidays.
One of the big ones is for folks who have siblings. Thanks seeing those childhood dynamics replay as an adult. So if your brother is a favorite, or if no one ever listens to you, or if they make fun of you, like during the holidays, that stuff comes up and we have to learn how to shift those dynamics as adults, and that work. Again, it's on us. It's having those conversations, hopefully before Thanksgiving dinner, hopefully before we see folks on Christmas. We start to do that work as soon as possible. Often we wait to the last minute. So the big thing that I see as the sibling dynamics. The other issues we might see is figuring out what to do for the holidays. We come from strong traditions sometimes where every year we go to our mom's house, but this year, maybe we want to do a friends giving, or maybe we want to go on vacation with our girls or with our boo, and so this is the time to start talking about that as well. Sometimes we'll wait to the last it will be passive and we'll say, oh, I don't know what I'm doing, and we have an exact idea of what we're doing or what we don't want to do. Another big thing staying with family. We don't have to. We do not have to stay with our families. We do not have to sleep in our sixteen year old bed, We do not have to share bedrooms with our cousins or sleep on anybody's couch. If you feel more comfortable staying in a hotel, or staying out a friend's house, or even just going in for dinner and leaving, you can do any of those things. You know, during the holidays is when my practice picks up. I've had calls on Christmas Eve and worked the day before Thanksgiving because people have waited until the last minute, and the crisis that they had last year is going to be the crisis that they have again this year if they don't work through those issues.
So, Ninda, what do you think it is about the holiday season that often is so stressful for people.
Families have expectations, and we have expectations. We want things to go often the way that they've always gone, whether that's good or bad. People don't want to change anything. It's like, oh, if I tell them I don't want to do this thing, then so we're forecasting. If I say I don't want to do this, everybody's going to be upset. If I don't cook everything for this feast, Everyone's going to be mad at me. There's such a variety of ways we can celebrate the holidays. We can go out to eat, we can stay at home, we can potlook it, we can do something by ourselves. We could househop. We have to be willing to explore a different thing when the past thing has not worked. And that's the hardest thing for us because we are creatures of habit and we don't want to plan for this. So it's like Thanksgiving, same time every year sneaks up on us. Christmas is like, oh my gosh, December twenty fifth. Again we are shot that we didn't do anything until maybe a week before. But we have to plan for these things, especially when we know that they are a problem.
M So it sounds like you're advocating a lot for prep work as you get into the holidays. What kinds of questions can people be asking to get in touch with some of these values that it sounds like you're talking about.
What do I enjoy doing for the holiday? What are some traditions that are new and different from me, that I might want to incorporate with others? What sort of things have worked, what sort of things have not worked? Who do I want to spend the holidays with?
And would you encourage people to like actually write that down or is this just kind of like mental prep work that they're doing. Well.
I love writing everything down, But you know, some of us are not journalers, right, But I think those are wonderful questions to write down and to answer, or to list, or to do an audio note, or even to talk to a friend about. Sometimes we do really good with account of ability. And maybe you have a friend where you could say what do you'd like to do on the holidays? And now it's a conversation with someone else, and they will give you some ideas that you may not have considered but you might want to practice. So even sharing that question with someone else and creating some community around it could be really helpful. But I would love for us to sit with ourselves and just journal about what hasn't hasn't worked, what practices you want to incorporate. Sometimes we may see something on TV and be like, oh my gosh, that's a wonderful idea to have a Thanksgiving treat where everybody writes down what they're thankful for that might be a new thing you want to incorporate. So there has to be some exploration around what this holiday could look like.
So you already mentioned, Naer that sometimes we have decided we want to opt out completely of going to the family holidays, or maybe we want to do something different like travel. What would you say to people for how they broached this conversation with family members to let them know they want to opt out that bread stands at all.
Start early, Start early. If you do something this holiday season that does not work, start discussing it in January, start discussing it in February. So people aren't planning on you being there because when you wait to November first, they already have a mental seat at the table for you. So if you have that conversation earlier, they've already worked you out of there, like, oh, you're not in the plan, you're going to Jamaica, You're spending the time at home. So start having those conversations earlier. The other thing is we have to allow people to be disappointed, sad, and upset. I know that's really hard. We want everybody to be happy with us at all times, and we want to make sure that they're feeling good, but it's just not possible. It's not possible for both of us to get our way in these interactions, and so you may have to take the unco comfortable but necessary step and change what you don't want to do anymore. And I know that's tough. I live, you know, in a different city from where I grew up, and I have not been back for holidays, not the cold holidays, because I'm from a cold place. So I appreciate not having to travel houses with my snow boots on, right and having to be bundled up or caught in a snowstorm. And so having those conversations around, I invite you to come to me. I invite you to explore something that's a little bit different. As adults, we get to create these new things in our lives, and I know that that sometimes means breaking tradition, but if you think about it, our parents did it, our grandparents did it, and now we have the opportunity to create the type of holiday experience we want to have.
And I think even when that happens, people should still be prepared that it will feel a little different the first time. You do some things different, right, like it could trigger grief that you are not anticipating related to changing up traditions. What other things would you say people need to be mindful of when they do change up traditions for the first.
Time, that it may not go as planned. I just finished watching What's That Almost Christmas? With Danny Glover, and he's trying to recreate this sweet potato pie recipe from his late wife. Right, and he creates that thing about ten times before it is the exact recipe, and it's after the holiday. Right. You have to embrace that it might not go as planned, that things may not be perfect, That you may try this new thing. You might say, Okay, I'm going to stay at a hotel and then feel really lonely once you get there. So maybe you don't continue to do that. Maybe there's a different thing you can do when you stay with family. Maybe that's just going for a walk and not staying in the house the whole time, or being a person who says, hey, I'll go to the grocery store to grab it. Maybe there are other ways to do this thing. If it doesn't work, you don't have to repeat it.
So, Dedra, I wonder if you could help us with a little bit of language translation, because we know sometimes we want to say things, but we want to also maybe keep the relationship intact. So I'm gonna give you a few examples, and I wonder if you could give me some ways that we might say this. So the first one is, I'm not coming over for the holidays because you all give me a headache.
This year, I will spend the holiday at home.
Okay, So we don't even have to address the headache peace. We can just say I'm just not coming over.
The headache part sounds like you're ready for a fight, if I'm being honest, because now we're asking the person to change who doesn't have an issue with themselves or the situation. Now we're telling them you need to redo your whole holiday to fit what is peaceful for me. Now, it may be true that they are giving you a headache, and you have the power to figure out what would make your holiday better, and perhaps that is staying at home, perhaps as deciding to do something else with other people. I mean, I've heard people say like, oh, I hate going to my family's house because they don't get dinner ready until seven pm. Well you can go at five pm. Or you can maybe hit a few other houses and then go to your family's house. Or you could say, Hey, I'm going to do Thanksgiving breakfast and I'll be over there for dinner. There are many ways to take the power back in that situation without telling everyone else. You need to start cooking earlier, right, that's not their process. This is the time that they have things prepared every year. So you have to figure out what can I do in my situation?
Got it? Okay? What about I'm kind of buying expensive and thoughtful gifts for people who don't do the same for me.
This year, I will be on a spending budget and you may not see as big or as many gifts as you've seen from me in the past.
Okay, more from our conversation after the break. You kind of answered this one, But I wonder if there's something else you would say. So, I'd much rather spend the holiday with my boo and their family than with you. I love these.
These are given Jerry Springer. This is like fighter Aunt Tea comments, Yeah, I would say this holiday season, I will be spending the holiday with my partner. Again, we don't have to pull people into it, because what are we signing to them, you need to be a different person for me to like you. You need to do this different for me to want to spend the holiday with you. Okay, let's say that they oblige. Right, Okay, I'll be quiet this whole holiday. What if you still don't want to spend the holiday there, Like the issue hasn't been you still want to spend the holiday with your booth. So sometimes even asking this other person to change doesn't take away from the thing that you actually want to do.
I love these So it sounds like in all of these responses it really is about looking at where you have power to make some changes and not depending on the other person to do that.
Absolutely, I don't think we're changing our parents, our siblings, our aunties, uncles and cousins by telling them about themselves and expecting them to have this therapeutic journey in twenty four hours. That is a recipe for disappointment and failure and probably some challenges in the relationship. A huge part of existing in relationships sometimes is expecting people to be themselves. Else you will be yourself on Thanksgiving, on Crispin, on Kwanza, on everybody birthday. You gonna be yourself, and a part of me being in relationship with you might be noticing where I need to pull back and when I need to speed ahead.
So we have some less Jerry Springer like scenarios that our community submitted, but we just love to get your insight on. So Eleanor is hosting the holidays at her home for the first time this year. She's feeling anxious about having so many people that are home at once. She's worried that you'll make a mistake and people will regret spending the holidays with her. She feels like she'll have to always be on in order to make a good impression. How can she prepare for this beforehand?
I wonder what is her idea of making a good impression? Like is it Hallmark movie having the house decked out smelling a certain way, or is the expectation having all of your family together in your home. The expectations that we set for ourselves can sometimes be really big and unreasonable, and if one part of that dynamic falls apart, where like the whole holiday was a disaster, and so we have to be really reasonable. The point of the holidays is to gather, is to gather and be in community. And sometimes when we're hosting, we have elaborate plans. We may overschedule. I've seen people do it where it's like, I'm gonna have an itinerary and at this time, we're gonna do this, and we're gonna go to the parade, and then we're gonna sit down and play cards, and then we're gonna sit down to eat. And if one of those things are off schedule or if we need to change anything, we're like, oh, the total holiday was trash. That is hard to do with more than one person. If you've ever been on a group trip, you know it. The only person you can manage in a group of people is yourself. You try to be on time, you try to but getting three, four, eight people on the same accord that can be challenging. And so some of the hosting might be having more flexibility and what that looks like, who can be on guard instead of you? Are there other people to manage other things while you're maybe cooking. Is there a person who can facilitate some activity or play. Figuring out who your helpers can be and not putting this all on you and your helpers can be a child. Some of these kias can get these grandparents really going sometimes. So it's not that it has to be a person your age. You have to get really creative with this and make sure you're not putting all of the responsibility on you because it's in your.
House, all right. Here's the second one. Tiana always feels anxiety going into the holidays because there are certain family members that she knows she'll always have tension with. She knows for sure that her aunt is gonna question why her life isn't together yet, her parents will always be fighting over something, her grandmother is gonna say something insensitive about her Wheat. She attends every year, even though she dreads it because she feels an obligation to and she knows that her family members will call her selfish if she doesn't. How can she endure this time of the year that brings her lots of stress?
This one is really tough because I'm hearing a lot of choosing chaos. I'm not hearing a lot of choosing self as much as I am choosing chaos because this is what everybody else wants. I am in an environment where I'm not emotionally safe, where I'm not respected, but I have to do it because it's what I've always done. If you feel obligated to attend a family function, I would say, choose your life of time. I've always attended some and is you know, it's some people who show up real late and they leave her a life. They're gonna come get a plate, and then they're gonna be like, all right, y'all, that's all they can manage, that's all they can handle. It's gonna be some people who are there the whole time. So maybe choose the length of time you want to be around people. Maybe think about some conversation starters with your aunt. Maybe think about some comebacks. I think for our bullies, whether it's a bully and our family or at school or wherever, we have to think of some comebacks. And I'm not saying you know, roachcha, aunt Tea, but I am thinking how old were you when you got married, Auntie? You know, just some of those things. To turn it back on the other person, Why do you worry so much about my dating life? How does these things impact you? Or have you even said I don't want to talk about this. Sometimes with family, we get into these patterns of conversation and we've never told the other person I don't want to talk about this, so they continue to ask because they don't even know you're bothered with it. You can certainly say to someone I don't want to talk about dating. Let's talk about how to play dominoes properly, because I think I've been cheating the whole time. I mean, you can come up with any sort of scenario to talk about other than your dating life, other than your weight, other than these things, like you know, these are things I just don't want to talk about.
All right. Here's our third one. Augusta lives in a different state than her family and can't afford to fly and see them for the holidays. She's feeling depressed because she loves her family and really wants to see them. She no longer wants to celebrate at all. If it's not with them, What can she do.
Technology is a beautiful thing, and when we can't afford to be close, we can certainly zoom, or we can FaceTime with the people we love. And I've seen people of a certain age demographic it's almost like FaceTime or nothing, right, Like they don't even talk on the phone. Everything is video. You can spend your entire day on FaceTime with your family, just talking to different people. You can't be with them just in the background as you're watching TV. Just moving throughout your day with them, maybe not physically in your space, but in your space via video. That is one way to have them present with you, even while you're cooking. Maybe you're cooking the same thing at the same time. Maybe you say, hey, give me your recipe and I will prepare it along with you. We have to get really creative with connecting with people. I know on a lot of video apps, you know, you can even sync up when you watch something on Netflix or Amazon. It's like, oh, let's have watch parties. So get really creative around what that community looks like when you can't be with the people you love that now. Because I don't go home for the holidays, that's something that I often do there for the family who is not here with me, who have chosen not to travel or who can't travel. We FaceTime, We talk throughout the day, we're sending videos. Those things keep us connected even if we're not in the same space.
Yeah, I think that's a really beautiful offering, and I think sometimes people are hesitant to do something like that because they feel like it'll make them sadder, right, Like, I know, if I'm not there in person, the videos might hurt more. But I think my experience has been that it is actually comforting, even if initially you feel like a little bit more sad.
Yeah, and we have to work within the parameters that we have, and so we can't exclude a holiday because it's not the exact experience we want. We need to figure out a way to have our holiday at different levels, whether I am with people or without people. There are some folks who don't have a lot of family connections, and it doesn't mean that they shouldn't have a holiday experience. So it might mean figuring out a way to have a soul oh holiday, figuring out a way to have a holiday experience with your community locally. Those are some things that you may want to do as well. And if you can't figure that out, volunteering on the holiday can be a really helpful way to connect with other.
People more from our conversation after the break. So something else that often makes the holiday season difficult is lost, right, So when family members have passed, I think especially that first holiday season after someone has passed is often very difficult. What kinds of things would you encourage people to do to celebrate and honor the family member who's no longer with them?
While I have suggested things from having a seat at the table for that person and just everyone going around and saying something on to having your own Sarah Moon a personal experience of today, I am reflecting on this person in this way. But the biggest thing is let's not ignore the grief, because if you're feeling it, everybody else is too, and that's something that we should probably talk about. Papa is not here anymore, and I'm feeling that today that will invite other people to talk about that person as well. You know, in many of our families grandmothers, when the grandmother leaves the family, the structure of the holiday shifts because I find that grandmothers really brings families together. So when the matriarch departs, it can really shift with the holiday. Looks at whose house will it be at? It's a big old stirrup and we have to adjust to Wow, now we have to figure out something new to do for the holiday because what we've done for fifteen years or twenty years, this person is no longer here, So again, I think those early conversations and that's not be surprised by Thanksgiving. I know it's hard when you're grieving, but even thinking about this year will be different. Nobody can make mama's dressing. But what can we do to continue to get together even though this will look a little bit different?
And we already talked a little bit about finances, and you know, I think black women, a lot of us have been socialized to kind of like make it happen for our children, especially related to gifts and spending money that we may not have. What kinds of things would you say to people to really allow themselves more space around this financial pressure and these expectations to gift give during this season.
Pull a name. That's my favorite thing. Poll hello, pull a name. You know what, when you have siblings and all the siblings got kids and aunts and uncles and grabmighty, pull a name. I think the easiest thing is to buy for the people in your house and to pull a name for everybody else. We're getting one gift outside this house.
I think that that is so smart. But you know, even in my own family Ndor, it feels like people have been really resistant to this idea, and I can't quite figure out why do you have any thoughts around why playing a name is such a like, oh, we don't want to do that.
Well, I will become your cousin and I will advocate with you. We will be the pull a name cousins. I am now a cousin and I'm gonna come with you put me up on FaceTime because I am advocating for putting You know, there is something really special about buying each and every person a gift. It feels very thoughtful, it feels very loving, but it strains our pockets. It's a lot of mental energy sometimes with gift giving. I think about this. This is the part that cracks me up. With the nieces and nephews. I think this, So you buy my key as something, then I buy your key as something. So we just bought two and two? Why did we do that? I could have just bought my kid stuff. You could have just bought your kids stuff, and then we could have just said Merry Christmas. Did we really have to? I feel like it's an gift swap. I get it, you want the thoughtfulness to be there, But is there another way that we can celebrate people. Can we be heavier on the birthday and maybe not on Christmas because that's a concentrated time for buying gifts. You're buying gifts for teachers, for maybe other people who've helped you in life, and all your family members. Maybe if we lessen the load on family, it can be really hopeful to others. So think about that, maybe gifting in another season such as birthdays or just because gifts, or pulling a name, or simply saying well, not simply because I know it's so hard, but saying to people. The way my bank account is set up, this year, I am red using the amount of gifts that I typically give. I will only be buying for kids. I will only be buying for people under the age of twelve some sort of parameter. I will only be buying gifts for my parents. I will not be buying gifts this year for my siblings. So being clear about what the boundaries around gift giving can look like in my family, I like to have a gift limit for kids of about fifty dollars. It can become a lot when you have lots of nieces and nephews, So fifty dollars I feel like I'm being generous. I've been thinking about this and this is what seems affordable. Now. I'm heavier on the birthday. I'm a heavy birthday person. And we have to be really strategic. So there are are bank accounts that we could start at any time of the year to start saving for Christmas. But we have to be very wise about not overspending because no one wants us to be in debt. No one wants us to be in debt. If we were to tell people, hey, I bought you this bike, but now I'm paying triple the amount for this bike because I couldn't afford it, I don't think they would want that bike. No one wants that for you, and I don't want it for you. So we have to think about, yes, I want to give, but in what way. One of the things I'm thinking about giving this year, and I promise is not because I'm being cheap. But here's what I'm giving. Seeds from my garden. I have harvested some seeds from some of my plants this summer, some of my flowers. I'm putting them in little baggies and I am sending them to some loved ones. Here you go. Here are my zenias, Here are my prize green bell peppers. I will send people packets of my favorite teas, just getting really creative. It does save money, but I'm actually trying to be really thoughtful. This is something that I really love and that I have curated. Maybe for you, is n't it in a blanket? Maybe for you it's bedazzling a phone case. I don't know what it is. But is there a gift that you can give that's a little bit cheaper but also very thoughtful.
I love that because you started this conversation by saying that I think a lot of us have been socialized to think that the only ways we can show care is through like large financial purchases, right, But could we up the thoughtfulness in other ways, something that is handmade, or like a letter or something that it is maybe even more thoughtful but not as financially expensive. Yeah. Yeah, So you've given us such incredible information. Ndra is there anything else that you want to share with the community around navigating the holiday season? Things that might make it a little easier for them.
Creating your own personal traditions is really important because you can carry them from relationship to relationship, whether you are single, whether you're with children, whether you are a partner in your family, all over the place, and some of those things might be having a favorite Christmas movie that you watch on a particular day, Christmas songs, creating the Christmas spirit in your home, certain things you do around Thanksgiving, friends giving traditions curate what you want to have. Often we're looking to everyone else like, oh my gosh, no one planned my holiday for me, when in actuality, it is up to us. It's up to us what sort of experience do you want to have this holiday season? Nothing in your life needs to change for this thing to start happening for you.
Thank you so much for that, Nindra. So let us know where we can stay connected with you. What is your website as well as any social media handles and where can we grab your book book?
Yes, Lurrel Books. Yes, my books are available everywhere books are, so please buy them at independent bookstores if you have the means to do so. Also, my website is nadra toowobb dot com and I am nadra to wob on most social media platforms.
Beautiful. We'll be sure to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today.
Nindra, You're welcome. Thank you.
I'm so glad Ninjra was able to join us again to share her expertise, To learn more about her and her work, or to grab a copy of one of her books. Visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com slash Session three thirty five, and don't forget to text two of your girls right now and encourage them to check out the episode. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue to gin into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care. What