Session 323: What's the Song of the Summer?

Published Sep 6, 2023, 7:00 AM

The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

When it comes to music, Summer 2023 has given us everything and more. From Janelle Monae ushering us into The Age Of Pleasure to Beyonce giving us life with her Renaissance tour, not to forget Ice Spice taking us to Barbieland, the question of song of the summer has never been more complicated. Joining me this week to chat all about summer’s major music moments is returning guest Danyel Smith. Danyel is the author of the acclaimed Shine Bright: A Very Personal History of Black Women In Pop and creator & host of the Spotify Original podcast Black Girl Songbook. Today, Danyel shares what makes a good summer song, the healing power of summer music, and her favorite summer releases of the past & present.

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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session three twenty three of the for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Which friend are you?

And your sister circle?

Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker, the firecracker or the leader? Take the quiz at Sisterhoodheels dot com slash quiz to find out, and then make sure to grab your copy of Sisterhood Heels to find out more about how you can be a better friend and how your circle can do a better job of supporting you. Order yours today at Sisterhoodheels dot com. When it comes to music, Summer twenty twenty three has given us everything and more. From Janelle Monet ushering us into the Age of Pleasure, to Beyonce giving us life with her Renaissance tour, and let's not forget I Spice taking us to Bobby Land. The question of song of the Summer has never been more complicated. Joining me this week to chat all about summer's major music moments is returning guest Danielle Smith. Danielle is the author of the acclaimed Shine Bright, a very personal history of Black women in pop, and creator and host of the Spotify original podcast, Black Girls Songbook. Residing in California, Danielle is also a contributing writer to The New York Times magazine. Today, Danielle shares what makes a good summer song, the healing power of summer music, and her favorite releases of the past and present. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in Session, or join us over in the Sister Circle to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. So good to see you again, Danielle.

It's good to see you too. Look at you. What about those glasses?

I know right, they helped me to see very well and they're cute, very fashionable. So the last time we had you here on the podcast, you were talking about your then newly released books Shine Bright. So tell me what has changed for you since the book and what kinds of reaction did you get related to the book.

I honestly could not have hoped for a better reaction, the amount of support, the amount of feedback, the amount of love, frankly from people who were glad that the sort of untold stories of black women in music were being told in detail, beyond them just being the first this or the first that that was spectacular. There is a huge memoir piece in my book that was very emotional for me. I had a tempestuous childhood. So when I was on the road with the book, some folks would just really come up to me and say, yes, I really did appreciate what you said about Diana Ross or I really appreciate what you said about Marilyn McCoo. I really appreciate the stories that you told about Whitney Houston. But I also appreciate the story you told about yourself the strength that has been giving me over the last year. It's been it's just been fortifying. I feel super I guess lucky, but just mostly just grateful.

Yeah.

I love that, and I love that you have gotten such good feedback, and it felt like you were really the only one to write this book, right, Like those stories really were advantage point that. I think that you had a very unique way of sharing with us. I really appreciate it.

Oh, I'm glad that you enjoyed. It just brings me a lot of joy to tell the stories. I mean, sometimes it makes me mad because of the content, or it makes me sad because I know some of the tragedies that have occurred.

I know some of the.

Meanness and the prejudice that black women in music and black women in john.

Of course, we so often get the brunt of that.

But it still it just brings me so much joy to tell the stories because there is also that much joy, that much commitment to excellence, that much ambition, that much just love in these women and their voices and their work. So it has been fantastic. I'm so happy you asked me.

Yes, yes, So we brought you back this week, Danielle, because we really wanted to have a conversation about summer music, right, Like, it feels like that is very much a vibe looking forward to summer music. So I want to hear from you. What is your definition of summer music. Is it just a song that comes out in the summer, or is it like music that gives you summer vibes?

You know?

Let me just say for me, it's not really a song that has to come out in the summer, because sometimes I feel like songs in the previous eras but also in this era, sometimes they need some moments to like marinate, They need to kind of bubble under the big pop scene and sort of become what they're going to be. To me, it's rarely that a song drops on June fifteenth and then by July nineteenth it's just.

The most amazing summer song of the world.

In some cases, like maybe this summer we had Barbie World, which to me is a supreme, supreme, supreme summer song. But no, it doesn't have to come out in the summer. It has to evoke a certain free spiritedness, a certain this moment is for me and nature.

This is for the sun to touch my skin. I feel good in that.

So oftentimes, to me, a summer song makes you feel great about being on a bicycle or being in a convertible car where you feel the wind in your hair, or something that's playing out of a phone, or a waterproof speaker at the beach as everybody's running back and forth into the water. Those are the kind of things to me, that mood of summer that makes a summer song.

I love it.

So you said that you feel like Barbiewell was a supreme summer song. What makes it a supreme summer song for you?

Okay, So even though I just said it doesn't have to drop in the summer, I just said, like I just said that this one kind of did, or at the very least slate spring, I think, and it just took over. There's something about the confidence in the song. There's something about the song that says, yes, I need a miniskirt one, where's my halter top?

Do you know what I mean? Where's my glowy lotion?

Like?

Where are my girlfriends?

We need to like coordinate, if not one hundred percent match, like you know, what I'm saying, Like when she says that line about where it girls and we're not playing tag? Every time I hear it, I'm like, it's me odd, Like it's just that cute.

Love it, Love it, Yeah, I mean, And of course the movie to go over the summer right like, it feels like everything was Bobby and I feel like that was the perfect songs that go along with the movie.

It really was, and it's so great. Also, just miss NICKI Minaj are Queen of rap. You know, sometimes it's so difficult as we all get older in life and in the game to form partnerships with folks that are coming up under us. And to see Niki and I spies just come together like in this it's almost a perfect record. Like the way they bounce off of each other, the way they're in sync, just really energy.

Wise, mood wise.

To see that partnership, it does my heart just a whole lot of good to see that happening.

Love it, Love it. So is there a particular song that instantly brings up a summer memory for you?

What's that Roy Ayir song Everybody Loves the Sunshine?

Oh?

Yes, remember Mary J. Blige sampled it for my life everybody.

So that song, it's always credited as it should be to Roy Ayers, he's the brilliant musician that created the record, but the vocals are by a woman named Debbie Darby.

My life, My life, My life, my life. Don't let me get to sing it. But let's not do that because we're gonna be in a winter song moment with that.

There's something about that Roy Airs Debbie Derby moment, My life in the Sunshine. I lived in Brooklyn for a long time. I lived there for a long time when I was married, but also when I was single, So it's something about that energy.

And I think then tied to the Mary J.

Blig song, It's just gonna always remind me of New York and Brooklyn and summertime really in New York and Brooklyn, which let me just go on and say in Brooklyn, and not really even in New York, but like very specifically in Brooklyn. If you've never spent a summer in Brooklyn, you're missing like the people, the food, the parks, the people walking their dogs, the beef patties, the pizza, the sitting outside with your ice coffee at the cafe. The saying should we go into the city. Should we go into the city, and the answer being no, we shouldn't because Brooklyn is everything. They're looking at the que folks on the street, folks in their tank tops and their sun dresses, like it's just amazing.

The street fair.

There's always a street fair in Brooklyn. It's not a special occasion. There's always a street fair somewhere in Brooklyn. So you can always go begetting some dried apricots, you can go get yourself a corn dog, you can get yourself a vegan smoothie. And it's just the energy of Brooklyn and that song, My Life in the Sunshine, it conjures all that up for me.

I love it. That's a good one. So you mentioned the sampling there, and that's something I love to hear more about. So I feel like sampling is something that has been proliferated right like the industry, but I feel like there's a bit of controversy also around sampling. I'd love to hear your thoughts on sampling and maybe some of your favorite songs that have sampled another song.

I think it's always tough.

When we were talking about Nicki Minajen I spice it can be such a challenge really to have a conversation musically between generations. But I think that hip hop actually has made it easier, and that even when things could get salty, like maybe between Will Smith and DJ Jazzy Jeff and Corn the Gang, who they sampled for their cuge summer hit Summertime.

Come On.

Oh you know how much we love Will Smith? Come On? Come On?

That is like the Black Summertime national anthem. First of all, Will's in perfect form. He's in perfect form vocally, the video is perfection. And the way I was just talking about Brooklyn, that's the way Will is speaking about Philly. We all love that song and we all love the music.

But the music is.

A huge sample from Cool in the Gang, who have a song called Summer Madness. In Will's version, there's like, again, don't get me to mimicking sounds, but there's this long note right, and then it goes higher and it goes higher, and it's almost like, how high can it go when it contributes so much to the mood.

That's cool in the game.

That's all Robert Coobell in his game, And to me, it's a perfect sampling, a perfect example of DJ jazz. Jeff and Will Smith, the Fresh Prince probably had heard that song their whole life. Their parents probably played it in their homes. They probably heard it on the radio, they heard it at parties, so it was just a part of their spirit and soul. So when they say let's put together a song about summertime in Philly, that's what they go to. So to me, that magic. Especially if things are done right and the original artist is being paid as they should be paid for their creative work, then I have nothing bad to say about sampling, not one thing. I love the conversation between generations.

I love it.

It makes hip hop rich, It makes hip hop educational, even when it doesn't seem like it's being so.

I am anything of.

I love that. That's a great example. Are there others that come to mind for you that you feel like are some of your favorites?

Well? I like anything that samples. Frankie Beverly amazed.

And it's funny because Frankie Beverly and Mays they do not like to be sampled.

They're a group where they feel like, basically, y'all need to make your own music, like.

We're fine over here, Like you need to do something on your own, but it's really hard not to because Frankie Beverly amazes. It's our life, it's in our blood. So anything that samples Mays featuring Frankie Beverly, there's just so many and I'm always listening for it.

And are you able to typically pick it up pretty easily?

Yes and no, because I think sometimes one hip hop producers are so smart and they're so meticulous, they might take the very tiniest bit of a song and that's why hip hop works. Okay, So now I know one Diana Ross, I'm coming out and more Money and More Problems, Am I right?

Yep.

It's like, if you don't know the Diana Ross song more Many, More Problems still works, But if you do know the Diana Ross.

Song More Money, More Problems works on levels.

It also calls people into conversations across generations and across eras and music. It calls in people who came up with the Supremes, It calls in people who came up with Diana Ross as a solo artist, and it calls up people who were partying with Uptown and Bad Boy Records during the late eighties and early nineteen nineties. So it functions on levels and it's just something that could I hear it. Of course I immediately heard it, and that matters because of the age that I am.

But also my niece who's thirty years younger, A mean, she.

Doesn't know the Diana russong, but momenty more problems is everything to her when really her generation is more I spice than anything.

So that's why I love sampling as well.

No, I love that that the intergenerational piece I think is important. So when you think about like summer music, in summer songs, do you feel like there's anybody who has had a big career out of primarily releasing songs of the summer and summer music.

It is the Southern and Midwest guys. Okay, it's ludicrous, and it's Nelly for sure. It's Hot in Here. It's a summer song, like it's a nightclub song. It's a fraternity or sorority dance song. But it's Hot in Here is also like a beat song, So Nelly, And then you think about all those like Ludacris hasn't always been the most politically correct, so I hesitate to bring up area codes. But that was a huge, huge, summer song, Oh My God, Ti and Rihanna, these artists, I feel like they know how to put their finger on the pulse of I want to make people dance. I want people to have on loose fitting clothing. I want people to be sexy. I want people to feel good. I don't want people, at least in this instance, to ask themselves too many hard questions about life. I want them to be feeling like things can be okay because the sun is shining.

I look cute. People look cute.

Also, I'm not always listening to Katy Perry, but Katy Perry and Snoop with California girls and me being a California girl. Listen, I think not to get on my homestatee though, what is amazing when I think about a song from like nineteen seventies from Marlena Shaw, the jazz singer, California Soul. It's been sampled so many times, it's been in commercials for Jeep. It's California Soul.

Again. You did not invite me on here for my singing voice, but California Soul.

I think songs about California, songs about the American West. Somehow those are easy to get in there as summer songs as well.

So I feel like you've given us a bit of an answer to this question. But like, how would an artist approach a song for the summer perhaps differently than they might a song for any other time.

I don't think it's any easier, But I do think you have to be intentional as a creator, and I do think that you have to be a part of a team, because no matter what the credits say, a song is a team effort. So rare one in a million where a song is only one person singer, songwriter, producer, vocal write. Like, really, almost nobody is all of those things, even Prince when he said he was. I think when you're trying to make something for the summertime, you really do have to say, all this stress that's right here on my shoulders, I have to create as if it's not there. I have to create as if the song is in my face. I have to create as if I have a glass of prosecco in front of me, or rose with a little raspberry in it or something.

My toes are.

Done, my nails are done, and I'm just looking at the waves hitting the shore. Even if the song doesn't contain those details. It's that mood that it helps infuse the song with that kind of energy, because a song isn't just the lyrics and the sound.

It's not just.

The lyrics or even the story of the song and the instruments or the technology. It really is the spirit of the people that made the record.

Like it still matters.

I always say that there's a lot of math in music, right there is. Music is a language its own kind of algebra. But none of that matters without the magic that is there. And you do hear it in summer songs, but really in just the best songs where you can't quite even me, who's been writing about music for decades, sometimes I will be thinking of a song that I love so much that it's difficult to write about because it's hard to capture in words the magic of somebody else's imagination. And summer songs, man, sometimes they're just so effervescent and evokace. That's when you just know, like there's magic, you know, being in the studio as recording artists, if you're able to all be together, because so much is done now via laptop and phone, but a lot is still done together in a room and I've been in these rooms where people come in and they're grouchy, or they're tired because it's early, or because it's late. They're hungry, they're waiting on food. They have a whole bunch of stuff in their notes app or a whole bunch of stuff in a raggedy little notepad. Somebody else is late. Things we're supposed to have happened that haven't happened. But somebody plays a note, or somebody reads a couple of lyrics, somebody changes the lighting in the room. Somebody arrives with the limit pepper wings, and all of a sudden magic is being made and it doesn't require as much conversation. People are vibing off of each other, and man, those moments you can hear them in summertime. You can hear them in summer madness.

You can hear them.

Man, what's my other favorite one? Oh my god, lovely day. Didn't you mention that from Bill Withers? Yes, what I've been at weddings where they play that when the bride and groom have just been married and they're walking, I mean the tears of joy from everyone, and then when Bill Withers at the end of that record sings that pure long almost twenty second. Nope, he didn't tell anybody he was doing that before he did it. The musicians and stuff didn't know. They had to stay in the groove in the cut with him. I know they were looking at it. I don't know, but I can imagine they were looking at each other like, Okay, what is Bill on right now? If he's still going? And they stayed with it, and then we have that classic. We can't forget How Girl Summer, Doctor joy M.

I mean clearly, clearly. I feel like that has been like the summer theme since it came out.

It's so great, and it's also so influential just in American culture. It's like everything is such and such a summer. It's a hot labor summer. It's a hot car summer, it's a hot mini skirt summer. It's a hot whatever summer, right, And I don't think Megan gets enough.

Credit for that. Yeah. Yeah.

I also feel like the timing of it was not fair, because of course it dropped right in the pandemic, and so I feel like we have not quite had a summer to fully appreciate Hot Girl Summer since it came out.

True you know, true, yeah, yes, but Meg really is her own She is her own kind of genius.

Ah all that she's been through.

I hope she's loving and enjoying her summer really deeply. One of my favorite favorites, though, is Summertime from Elephis Gerald and Louis Armstrong when she said, and the living is easy when you know and it was no parts of that, right, but she still had to give us that so that we could even imagine it and feel it and have some salve on our souls.

What does she say?

The cotton is high, the catfish are jumping like ladies and gentlemen. Ella Fitzgerald not quite the beginning of everything for us, but super close to being that. And she had her own summer anthem with that song, Summertime. And if folks haven't heard it, you're missing out. You are missing out. And also, believe me, so many people have covered it, and most people, regardless of genre, rise to the occasion of the song. But Ella's version with mister Armstrong is the version.

Please start there, Please.

Please start there. More from our conversation after the break, I feel like there's a very Beyonce tie in here. And I don't want us to get too sidetracked, because I could definitely spend the rest of this episode talking about everything that is Renaissance. But I do feel like you made a comment just a second ago around making music, even when that's not what people are feeling, right like when the world is crumbling, how artists will go within to give the public something. And I definitely feel like that's what Renaissance was for a lot of us when it dropped last year and then now this year with the tour, like that very much feels like summer music for sure.

A gift, yes, a gift to the culture, our culture, but a gift to the world and the universe. Like it's an ongoing, never stopping costume party. It's like a disco ball over the world, you know, like in the way social media allows us to participate in each other's joy to get Ready with Me videos of people listen to me with get Ready for Me videos for a Renaissance night, Why are people going all the way out? Like there's this one red outfit that Beyonce has worn, you know how she loves like a leotard, but it's a long sleeve leotard and she's gonna give you a good guarter belt and a boot and all of this. This one woman I was watching, she is a seamstress. She is a tailor, a designer. She created that outfit for herself, and let me tell you the stuff that she was using.

I was like, girl, I don't know how that's gonna hold together.

I feel you, but girl, wear some under it, because I don't know what's gonna pop out. When she put that on one, it all held together. But when she put that on the joy of her looking at herself and her work in her mirror and sharing that with.

All of us.

Girl listen, I was like, Beyonce's doing work when she's not even working, because oh my god, everybody with their aerodesse and cowboy hats. Many people making them themselves, even if they're not professionals with a needle and thread. Like one woman I saw was like, I'm going to renaissance. I'm not spending all this money though I'm doing advantage. I'm doing all vintage, and I'm doing it like from this one store, so I'm not driving all over town the way she came out looking, I'm like, I should have gotten more dressed up.

I saw her in London.

I guess I was at the top of the summer and I didn't know really how deep we all needed that until I saw folks dancing at floor level at the concert in London. I had my fancy seats on the riser. But at a certain point it's not good enough to be fancy or renaissance.

You got to go floor. You got to go to the floor.

And when we did, and I was actually able to dance with folks, see up close people's signs, see up close people taping each other with their phones. It was an upside down kind of joy. It really was. And then when Blue came, we're not even discussing Blues summer of really becoming herself. You know we all have that summer too. Yes, yes, we have it at summer camp. We have it at vacation Bible School, we have it down south at our auntie's house where we're staying for the summer. We have it at band camp. Blue just happens to be having on hers on the Renaissance choir with her where if you look at her from the beginning of the tour, she was tentative, just letting the choreography begin to live in her just figuring out what she looks the most cute in, just figuring out the way she's going.

To communicate with the audience.

And when your parents are jay Z and Beyonce, it does get in your blood, but you still have to figure out who you are.

And then to see.

Her now, first of all, she looks two winches hollid, and she looked at the top of the summer. But oftentimes that happens to us. She's so confident. Now she's all the way to sassy. Now, yeah she is, am I wrong?

No? No, you are not you and not She's very much living the choreography at this point.

Yes, it's in her now, it's in her DNA. And just to see the way she's just beaming. Yeah, And you know, I'm gonna say that's hard work. She's learning that too, to come out on stage every night and do that, even just for the beats that she's out there, Right, she still has to go through hair and makeup, costume, rehearsals, meetings, all of those things. It's the ultimate summer job, right, And I think, right, it is all right, And I just feel that we're blessed to witness it and as private as they can be too with their kids.

I think it's very intentional that they're allowing you.

Imagine if you're a note year old black girl right now.

Yes, those are my other favorite TikTok videos of seeing moms bring their kids to Renaiss songs and they're so excited to see Blue.

It isn't the best listen if I was nine her tune right now? Would you ever forget? No? No? That may be the real summertime jam. Right there is Miss Blue.

Yes, in the Ivy League as they're calling it, it's a summer being blue, right, but we're blue the summer blue. So there was so many incredible songs of the summer during your time at Vibe. So you were there from ninety four to ninety nine, So let me just list off some of the summer songs. So we had Janet Jackson with Any Time, Any Place, Aliyah Back and Forth. We had TLC Waterfalls, Mariah Carey, Always Be My Baby, Monica and Brandy The Boy Is Mine, and Destiny Chow Bills, Bill's Bills. Are there any behind the scenes stories or moments that you can remember and share from any of those songs of the summer.

I don't know if I know behind the scenes of the actual songs, but I do know what it was like being in New York at that time when those songs were out and hot, and a particular one that I remember, it's not on your list, but it was Buster rhymes, put your hands on my eyes can see.

Okay, let me tell you something.

And Buster's on tour right now, and I know I haven't seen it, but I know he's turning it out every night. He's such a friend, he's such a legend. But the first time I heard that song, I don't even think I was a vibey. I might have still been in Billboard. There was a record release party for a Boye to Men, And if you've ever been to New York, you know what Chelsea Piers is. That's on the west side of New York. And the party was supposed to be as parties will be on the yacht that was docked in Chelsea Piers.

So here I am.

I'm going and it's a very snooty industry party. It's looking like in my storm. The yacht was supposed to take us up and down the Hudson River. Then they announced we're not going to take the boat out because of inclement weather. In might rain, it might be too windy, so we're just going to stay in the dot. The DJ and it was Kick Capri. He said, I have a new record, though I don't know if you all have parted. First of all, this is a boys to men party. It isn't even like a party where everybody. It wasn't even a jodasy party. Like. It was a very bougie, you know, a linen jacket, it's swaying in the wind type of boys and been party. He played put your hands where my eyes could see, and I think at first we were like, is this a real record? Like it wasn't that good. I'm not gonna say the sun came back out, but in my memory, the sun came back out and listen, folks were taking off their shoes. He must have played that song. Every time I tell the story, it is a different number. He either played that song four times, eight times, or fifteen times in a row. I don't remember at this point. But what I do remember is that I was literally wet with sweat from dancing. This is name work party. It's not the type of party that people even dance at there wasn't a proper dance floor magic like New York even at that time, I think, and maybe I felt this way too, because I was a country mouse from Oakland, California moving to the big city. But those kinds of moments, to me, are the behind the scenes moments that matter the most to me, even more than the times that I've been in the studio, because it's it's one thing to see people creating, and that's magic and it's a gift in my life and it's a privilege. But I'm not really participating except for as a witness when you hear it with other people, like we're talking about with the Renaissance shows and stuff, and you can't help us say, I'm taking my shoes off because I can't dance comfortably enough. I'm gonna dance and dance and dance. And I don't even know you, ma'am or sir. All of a sudden, we are skipping to my lou together and the sun is out, it might rain, the wind is blowing, it's summertime. Like, oh, so that's my best behind the scenes. I mean, I remember when waterfalls came out. I remember all those moments Janet Jackson, Anytime, anyplace. All of those were amazing moments. But what I really remember about those, even more than working those records as a journalist or an editor, is when I had the chance to participate and shake my own group thing.

And I am not.

That girl that is a good dancer. Let me tell you something. When music can make me forget that listen, then that's my song.

And right very much summer music vibes, then.

That's my song.

If you make me forget any awkwardness that I might feel about myself or my body or how I move or any of those things, that's when something becomes well, that's my song, because that's what it's doing for me.

More from our conversation after the break. So you started off pretty early in this conversation talking about how Barbie World was a quintessential summer or song. What else about music this summer has been special for you? What do you think has been special about this summer's music lineup?

It's this other song? What is her name? Gucci? Gucci? What what it is? Yes?

Wait a minute, wait a minute, Okay, I am too much in these Instagram streets. If that song soundtracks one more real. I'm gonna have to fight everybody. But it's so good though, And then I didn't realize until just this morning, when I was preparing for our conversation, I was like, why would love this song so much? I mean, obviously, Ducie has an amazing voice, has such a sweet, little confident lilt to it or something like. I love it. But I'm like, but what else is it about this record? And I said him, who produced?

Who wrote? Who produced? So why is it? Somebody name J White did it? And the thing is, you know what else? He produced?

Bodak Yellow and I like It from Cardi b Oh wow, both of those songs are what diamond singles. Mister White has a little bit of a hot hand right now, doesn't he clearly?

And then he.

Also produced the Savage remix for Megan Beyonce. Oh so, wait a minute. This is a sweet creative partnership. And now I think that it's going to be way beyond just a great summer song because this person has these diamond credentials and if they work this out right, we could still be jamming this song three four years from now, like it's new.

So I love that. What are the other ones? That I'm loving mine, Oh you know what I love.

And I can't believe I'm saying it because she has acted a fool on so many occasions. I'm covering my eyes because I don't even want to look you in my eyes right now when I say this, it's that damn Miley cyrus and that I can I can give myself flower.

Listen.

It is catchy, isn't it.

Though.

I am passing the flowers at Trader Joe's, like, I can give myself some flowers, like seriously, like, and I'm like, she goes too far, but she says she can hold her own hand or something like.

Girl, you said I stepped too far. I don't want to hold my own hand now.

But there is something so powerful about I can get my own flowers for myself. And I'm a straight girl. I love getting flowers from my man. It's wonderful.

But it's not everything. It's not everything.

And to hear it said so clearly, and because it's the hook the title of the song, you can't hide from it.

You don't have to look for it.

Yeah, and it's a beautiful sentiment for my Honestly, it's a beautiful sentiment it's so strong and beautiful at the same time. That's a summer summer song right there. That's a skipping down the street song right there.

You know what I mean?

Like it's almost as good as what's my other one, I'm Walking on Sunshine.

Y'all can hate on me if you want to. Here's the thing, I don't care.

Do We girls have our own individual versions of what feels like somewhere.

Right I'm walking on Sunshine and it shot feels up. Girl.

Listen if I look, this is the therapy for Michael Show. I've made no secret about the fact that I am a depressive, like I'm always dealing with that, and I'm happy to be able to even say that right now with a smile on my face, because I used to not be able to. But sometimes music, and I think sometimes that's why it's been such a partner to me in my life.

When I hear a song like.

Walking on Sunshine, it does something to the chemistry in my body, It does something to my mood. I'm not saying it's medicinal. I'm not saying it takes the place of therapy, but I'm saying it will function for me as such a boost, though it will function for me as such a like I'm going through it. I'm going through it. I'm going through it, but this is helping me get through it. And that's whether it's something as joyous as I'm Walking on Sunshine or Hot Girl Summer. But sometimes we need a little in my life, my life, mym you know, and that helps as well.

Okay, so I'm gonna list of some other summer projects to get your thoughts. What about Sexy rids Hood, how this princiss o Why?

Yes?

Okay, And that's my whole answer right there. Also why she's that cute ooh, I love them.

So somebody else who I think is also really tapping into the heart of R and B right now is Victoria Monique with Jaguard too.

Let me tell you about her. Okay.

First of all, the music again, we go back to what we were talking about, conversations between generations. She's so clearly influenced by the music of the seventies and early eighties that if you were actually there, I was a kid, but still it pulls you in regardless of your age, because you can find an entry point like you can find it, and then if you're like with her age wise, you don't have to have heard that music from back then, you.

Don't have to know who the emotions are.

You can just be into it for what she's doing because it does belong completely to her. Still, I did a panel at one point, moderated a panel of black women creators, and she was on the panel. And the way her human energy, the way she presents in person, is so chill and calming. It was giving shade, to be honest, Wow, it was giving sophisticated.

It was a little bit giving. Y'all are lucky you have time for this.

And I'm not mad at that because she has songs to write and things to do.

But I say all that.

To say I love the songs, but I also just love very much right now, the idea of her.

I love black women making rhythm and blues.

I love black women who understand what pop actually means. That it doesn't necessarily mean that something has to sound like a pop song. It means you just going for the biggest and the most. I hear that ambition in her music, you know. So she's out of here, So see her now before the tickets are a geopop because they will be so she's that girl.

Agreed, Yes, agreed. Okay. What about Janelle Monee's The Age of Pleasure.

Let me tell you about her, Okay.

Janelle Monee is an alien like the Voice the Chops. As an actor, I will never forget her portraying that scientist in Hidden Figures, the way she was able to capture the joy of her partner in that film, giving her those pencils to support her work and the efforts that she was making. She didn't go like crazy, like a cheerleader or anything like that. It was just this quiet inner joy of like this person sees me. And I've been in the presence of Jenne Monee and I feel like that's her energy in real life. I feel like she sees us. I hear it in her music. I see it in her work in Hollywood. I see in the way she runs her business called Wonderland, her creative collective. In the dancing in the Clothes, We've seen the evolution from the discipline of I will only wear black and white. I will only wear black and white because I'm not even here to have the surface of me.

I'm not here for that even to be discussed.

It's just gonna be black and white, and then we've seen how she's moved all the way over then to so much color and so much big design to them like and also, I'm free with my body.

Now you all won't see my body.

Y'all can see it because it's all that so again, like maybe it's just all the girls whose last name is gonnaame.

They're having a moment on it being having a.

Whole moment completely they are.

They are okay one more so, what about fly on a boss?

If you wish all the way over my head? No idea what you're talking about.

So these are the two little sisters on teach.

Oh you're about them?

No, I love them girls just to know their name, not hello Christ, I'm about to sitity.

Oh my god, girl.

They're invited to any girl they can come by right now for breakfast.

Are you kidding me? Those girls? And then now they have to deal with the WNBA.

I use this word a lot of times when I speak about black women's work because we don't get the credit for it. The amount of planning and discipline and execution that I see in everything that they're doing it is brilliant.

It is the commitment. This is the commitment too.

You know how many people probably have told them, Okay, you guys have done that, so you guys can try something else.

No, we're doing this. We're doing this till it all the way kills over and dies.

We are doing this. People love this also, you can see by the way they are running down the street like bulls. I love to see it. The joy and the strength get of my way, my way also in the black community, to have the nerve to be saying, hello, Christ, you know something.

Somebody's grandma was mad.

Right now, I'm about to sin again. Listen the way I love them. And it feels so.

I could be totally wrong about this. I do not know.

It feels so lifted from the first line of a journal injury, because honey, I think we've all written those two sentences at the top of a journal entry with different words, whether it's greetings Jesus, whether it's a lah, whether it's hello Universe, whether it's I'm about to f up again, whether it's why am I doing this again? That sentiment of I'm trying and at the same time I don't care. It is so free to be lifted from the journal, to be lifted from the interior to being the exterior and to be executed with all that physicality. Listen to me, I'm so mad I didn't know who they were. And please leave that in there because I'm dead wrong.

But I'll tell you what. I know that song, though you do. I know that song and I live for it.

Yes, yes, okay. So this may be a hard question. So what would you say, definitively is your song of the Summer for twenty twenty three.

It wasn't released in the summer, but people are playing it like it was and it's kill Bill From says.

I, Oh, I'm still that Okay.

I'm so mature. I'm so mature. I wrote about her for the New York Times magazine. I visited her at her home in Malibu. To get there, unless you know a secret way that I don't know, you have to ride up Pacific Coast Highway.

It's literally named.

Always as one of the most beautiful highways in the entire world. And to me, that song just evokes just that, driving up Pacifico's Highway with the top down, having done something that you probably shouldn't have and you're a little bit chastising yourself, but you're all the way enjoying yourself. There's something about Scissor's voice two in general, but particularly in this song, in her songwriting that's just kind of fearless. I could see how that song could be written and it could not be say, chosen for the album that it sounds maybe a little goofy, a little unfinished, little rough around the edges. And that's just why it is such a summer song.

It's just free. It's just free.

It's another one, and it's so great for black women's singers right now, that the things that we struggle with the most, things that again we just commit to our girlfriends, maybe over brunch or in our group chats or in our journals, whether you're typing them or writing them down. These feelings that people feel like, well, do black women even feel that way?

Y'all are so strong. Y'all just get it, y'all get things done.

You guys, just manage situations are coming from our partners.

Well, you don't need me because you've got this. Sure. It's all true, and it's a lot. It's a lot.

So to see these innermost feelings coming out that aren't even necessarily about the other, right, but about a black woman's own self and own heart. Those are the songs that I'm responding to. Whether it's as we just mentioned, Hello Christ, I'm about to sin again, or whether it's like, you know, you just keep somebody's car, honey, not that I know anything about that, and you've got away with it, and.

You know you're wrong, you know you're wrong.

You're like, I'm so mature, You're being sarcastic with yourself. But at the same time, it's like, I was mad, though, and you did do that to me. And I'm not saying it's writer or it's okay to quote Whitney Houston, but what is okay it's for black women to be saying how they feel about themselves. So often we're singing about I miss you so much, I'm gonna love you forever, I'm want to jump on the midnight train to Georgia, come back to me child, anytime, anyplace. And all these are beautiful songs. I could listen to them in a row right now, be happy for the rest of the day. But sometimes what's missing is us singing about how we feel about ourselves.

And it's happening now.

I think a lot of the energy of rap and women in rap is spilling over into women in R and B in black pop.

That I'm talking about me, what's going on with me?

Good, bad or otherwise mature or immature, and it's delicious, it's heartening.

I love that. That's a beautiful answer. So Danyelle will remind the community where we can stay connected with you. It is your website as well as any social media channels you want to share.

I am Danielle Smith and that is spelled d A and y E L. Smith.

You can find me at what remains of Twitter. You can find me on Facebook, but I'm there rarely. If you really want to find me, come on over to Instagram, come on over to threads, come on over to spill, come on over to Spoutable. I'm there either as Danamo Da n A m O, which is my high school nickname Danamo because I was such a little Dynamo if you can imagine, and you can also find me. Just google Danielle Smith and shine Bright and you will find the thing that I'm most proud of, which is my book, Shine Bright, which is a very personal history of black women in pop music. It was named by Pitchwork as the music book of twenty twenty two, and it's the nearest and dearest thing to my heart. And if you want to hear my voice talking so much mess as I'm talking here with Doctor Joy, you can also just go to Spotify search Black Girl's Songbook and you can hear my podcast where I'm always telling stories about black women in music and also about myself as a black woman in music, as the former editor in chief of Vibe and Billboard and all the many things that I've done.

Indeed, we will be sure to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending more time with us today. Always talk so fun. I'm so glad Danielle was able to join us once again to share her expertise. To learn more about her and her work, or to grab your copy of Shine Bright, visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com slash Session three twenty three, and don't forget to text two of your girls right now and encourage them to check out the episode. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic, or just be in community with other sisters. Come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You can join us at Community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care. Which friend are you and your sister circle? Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker, the firecracker or the leader? Take the quiz at Sisterhoodheels dot com slash quiz to find out, and then make sure to grab your copy of Sisterhood Heels to find out more about how you can be a better friend and how your circle can do a better job of supporting you. Order yours today at sisterhood Heels dot com.

Therapy for Black Girls

The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
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