Session 308: Getting Ready for Sisterhood Heals, A Book Club Conversation

Published May 24, 2023, 7:00 AM

The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

Many of you know that my debut book, Sisterhood Heals: The Transformative Power of Healing In Community, releases on June 27th. It is a celebration of and guide to the relationships Black women have with one another. Well the TBG team got some very early copies of the book and had a little book club of their own to chat about their thoughts, musings, and praise for Sisterhood Heals and we wanted to share it with you. But the conversation won’t stop here, I want you to be a part of it as well so please pre-order your copy at sisterhoodheals.com so that you’ll be able to join in the fun as well. 

Resources

Sisterhood Heals is now available for pre-order!

 

Where to Find the Team

Fredia Lucas

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Ellice Ellis

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Nyesha Davis

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Gorgeous West, APC

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    Our Production Team

    Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard

    Producers: Fredia Lucas, Ellice Ellis & Cindy Okereke

    Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session threeh eight of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. This week we have a special episode for you, very near and dear to my heart and dedicated to the beautiful bonds of sisterhood. Many of you know that my debut book, Sisterhood Heels the Transformative Power of Healing in Community, releases on June twenty seven. It is a celebration of and a guide to the relationships black women have with one another. Well, the TVG team got some very early copies of the book and had a little book club of their own to chat about their thoughts, musings, and praise for Sisterhood Heels and we wanted to share it with you, but the conversation won't stop here. I want you to be a part of it as well, so please pre order your copy at Sisterhoodheels dot com so that you'll be able to join us and the fun as well. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session and Sisterhood Heels, or join us in the Sister Circle to talk more about the episode at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation from our book club to yours.

    Hello, I'm Frida Lucas. I'm the senior producer here at the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, and I have the distinct honor to be in conversation with my fellow team members here at Therapy for Black Girls to discuss Sisterhood Heels, the upcoming book and the first book from our illustrious leader and founder of Therapy for Black Girls, doctor Joy Harden Bradford. And I can speak for myself, have had such an incredible joy reading this book and now being in conversation with you. Also, I'm very very excited for us to get started. Before we jump in talking about sisterhood heels, I would love to pass it over to the team to do introductions, and the first person I'm going to ask to do introductions is Nisha.

    Hello, I'm super excited to be joining you all today. I'm Naisha, and I am the community assistant with the Therapy for Black Girls Sister Circle. I love what I do with our community and I'm just feeling warm and fuzzy after going through my notes, just you know, ready to dive in.

    Let's pass it over to Kia. Hi.

    My name is Kia, and I'm the business manager here at Therapy for Black Girls. So I try to coordinate and make sure that the team is working as effectively and efficiently as possible. And I too, am excited to discuss this book because it reminded me of some things that I had already experienced in life and some things that I'm looking forward to implementing, so can't wait to get into it.

    And the one and only Gorgeous Hello, everyone, My name is Gorgeous.

    I'm the kind since specialist with the team with Therapy for Black Girls, I help in the community on Facebook as well as help pitch topics and thanks to discuss on the podcasts and Bob.

    And Lads, but most certainly not Lease Elise.

    Hey, everyone, I'm Eleisa Ellis, the producer of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast.

    I am so excited to discuss Sisterhood heels today.

    I absolutely love this book and I'm really proud of doctor Joy and preparing for this conversation, I was thinking about chapter three being your sister's keeper and being soft places to land for each other, and I think that's what we have here at this team. Was just so heartwarming to discuss it with you, guys. I'm excited to see how the Sister Circle talks about the book and just our entire audience's response to the release.

    All right, Elise, let's kick it off with these conversation questions.

    Yeah, so, I already talked a little bit about one of my favorite parts of the book, chapter three, about being your Sister's Keeper, and I'm curious what sections of the books stood out to you guys and why Global Sisterhood.

    Definitely just from Joy because I'm like, yes, it's how you can help a sistem and going into the four s's of sistood, being seen, supported, and supporting ourselves as well as soften. Wow, just breaking that down so we can understand how we can work on ourselves and also be there for one another and also how to help another be seen. I'm like, yes, so we needed this for sure.

    I think I like to touch on the book like generally speaking, I thought it was such a good balance between academic and researched things that you could really take from and a conversational tone because I think sometimes that things tend to be more one than the other. And I thought like it really connected with me in a good balance because every time I was thinking, well, you know, what is the why behind this, it would pop up in a way that I could easily digest without having to you know, look up a whole bunch of things, but still feel like I had learned something. So that wasn't from one particular chapter, but just throughout the book. I thought that it was a really good way of weaving it together.

    I definitely agree with you, Kia from a therapist's perspective with the book, Doctor Joy definitely executed well the delivery of the Jardian and the definitions of attachment theory, Like she really broke it down, so, like you said, the way it was digestible to where you didn't need a degree in psychology or counseling to be able to understand these theories and mobalities and practices. I think to go back to your question, at least what was our favorite part. One of my favorite parts was where she broke down the attachment theory because a lot of people aren't aware of that, and how we attached in our relationships really plays a huge part in how we show up in our friendships.

    And even when she broke down and explained I think it was.

    Eric Ericksson's kind of like the Stages of development that was well written and well highlighted as well. I think giving people more insights so you can get the understanding of, oh, my relationships started here, and my relationship maybe with my younger sibling, I see that now being implemented my doctor, relationships with my best friends or whatever. So you need to kind of understanpanding the route and basis of friendship and relationships.

    That was one of my favorite parts.

    I really loved that.

    Part too, because I've read a bit about attachment theory, but it's always talked about in terms of romantic relationships, and so I think sometimes we can prioritize developing and growing in romantic relationships but not in friendships. And so there's a level of introspection in the book that I really appreciate. In addition to the attachment theory, the questions that doctor Joy wrote that I had to ask myself about how I'm operating in my friendships.

    I felt like that was really helpful.

    So I wasn't just reading to learn, but I was reading and processing a lot of things in the book to understand myself, and that was really helpful.

    So, Nisha, earlier on you brought up the essays of sisterhood, and I'd love for us all to touch on how do you receive and give sisterhood? And if you feel comfortable sharing experiences from your own friendships, I'd be delight.

    I didn't hear them, so when I was reading that, I obviously felt seen that I don't be asking for help, but thankfully I accepted help this weekend, and as I was going through my nose, I was like, Okay, nin you sure you didn't want to take that moment.

    Of help with you accepted it. I was literally.

    Walking to a Starbucks and it was a twelve minute walk but at three minute drive, and I had just slept an event and they two sisters.

    They saw me at the event.

    I was like, hey, sis, you just want to ride, And it was hard for me to say yes. And I've done that to other people, you know, Hey, come on, come on the car, come get a ride. I wasn't paying ten dollars for the Uber, so I was like, I'm just gonna walk this twelve minutes. It's nothing for me. But she was like, come on, get in, and I felt no hesitation at all. I still I felt nervous accepted help. Not nervous for safety and nothing like that, but accepting help. I'm like, why, Like, she's literally going down the block just like you. But I had to just support myself because you know, it was hot, my person was heavy because I had my laptop in it and it felt good.

    And then jumping into the support.

    Of course, she supported me at that moment, as I've done for other people in the same situation.

    Come on, just get in the car.

    Were in the same route.

    I was just going to say that I thought it was really helpful the whole idea of holding space and what that means.

    And I thought the fact that on page ninety three.

    That the three skills that are needed are active listening, freedom from distraction, and a spirit of curiosity. I thought that was really helpful to give people. Myself included bullet points on you know, I had a friend and I'm in that stage right now where people's parents are aging and you know, some of them are obviously dying, and so the idea of what that means to hold space for someone's grief has become very relevant.

    So that was a really good reminder for me.

    I think for me, the support is huge, especially now in this season, and I mean with just having a newborn baby. So being able to receive health is like I have to be okay with like my friends reaching out to me and shaking in on me instead of being like why are you.

    Still texting me?

    Like they're feeling annoyed with everybody asking how I'm doing and how I'm feeling, how the.

    Baby is doing, being able to say it's okay.

    People just want to check in on you, like it's okay, to be checked on, because I'm always that one to check on everyone else, and so since I am so i occupied, I'm unable to do that. Now people are checking in on me. It kind of feels a little weird, but I'm in a space to receive it. So I'm allowing myself to receive the support from my friends and then showing up for me like I show up for them.

    So that was a huge reminder for me when I read that party.

    For myself, when I was thinking about the fours is of sisterhood, one that I think a lot of people come to me for and that I get very freely, as like the knowledge of self. If I see a job that my friend might be good for him to send it. If I'm reading an article, I'm like, oh my goodness, I just thought of avery, I'm going to send it immediately. I'm really open to sharing my own experiences and like having my friend grow from them, but also just like, oh, at least, what is it like to be vegan? Or like where should I eat an x y Z place? Like that's very easy for me, but what's really hard for me is like to allow myself to be soft around other people. I think because I support people in that way. I don't know, I just get scared, I guess supporting myself and like allowing people to see that softer side of me. People tell me I can present like a rougher or not a rouffer, a tougher exterior, and so being more vulnerable with people around me, it can be like really scary, especially because I have a bigger family and I have like a lot of siblings. Sometime them like I don't need friends, but then I realize, like I really do need my friends in the same way that they need me.

    I'm hearing a lot of descriptors of the folks in this conversation, being the strong friend or the friend that does the reaching out, the friend who sends the resources, And it's making me think about how doctor Joey broke down the different type of friends in a group. So she just the leader, the wallflower, the firecracker, or the peace maker. And I'd love to hear from us all which one are you? And you might be a different kind of friend in a different group, So if you could share what kind of friends you are and then also give us a little bit of context for this group. Is it your high school girlfriends. Is it your friends that you met through your parents, Rita.

    I love how you distinguish the groups, because that's.

    The real thing when it comes to my high school friend, my college friends, my friends that I develop in motherhood, now my adult friends, and then my coworker friends.

    Like it's important that you.

    Distinguish the group because each each group either you were a different version of yourself when it developed, right, and so from my high school friends, they might still see me as the firecracker in certain spaces, I'm the one that's gonna be like, I'm gonna say it.

    If it is, I'm gonna call it elepant out in the room because why y'all being weird.

    And some of my college friends will see that too, because we went to high school together. So it's like an interchangeable role between that and the leader. My adult friends, college friends, grad school friends, motherhood friends, they.

    Will see more of the leader world of me.

    They don't necessarily see that firecracker because with.

    Age, I've tould me down right in maturity in life. But my high school friends.

    When they see me in spaces with the other groups of friends, they're looking at me like, well, who is that? Like is it a gorgeous We know, because normally you would have stay at this, So why you're acting scared. You're not gonna say what you feel.

    You know what I mean.

    But it's just in the sense of I'm still me, but I present different amongst different groups due to the relationship. I might feel a little bit more safer with my high school friends because of the longevity to.

    Be that firecracker. Right, It's about how safe you feel too, and how you show up.

    It's interesting that you mention safety because I feel safe when I'm not the only one being the leader in a friend group. And so I think, because of the nature of like my job, being a producer, you have to lead a lot, you have to organize a lot. And so when I find myself in situations where I'm the only one giving in that way, I get really nervous and I get overwhelmed because it's like, is this work? Like I don't like that, And so I think sometimes in a friend group, I'm looking for like a collective of leaders, and I know, like sometimes we can butt heads, but I hate feeling like I'm bearing the burden of like planning things or reaching out or like making sure everyone's being like really cohesive. But I will say, outside of being the leader, I am the firecracker. So I'm a Gemini, I'm a Sagittari's rising, like I'm not afraid to say it. And I think, you know, sometimes I think when I was younger, especially with my college friends, that could cause like a lot of tension. And that's where I found myself being like the firecrack but also being the peacemaker, like allowing everyone to say how they feel and being that person who can bring up difficult things, but also checking myself and like I'm not bringing up this difficult thing for drama or to call somebody out or to have some tea. It's like, no, I'm bringing it up so we can resolve it and we can move forward as a friend group. And so I think naturally i'm the leader, but where I feel my safest is when I can.

    Be the firecracker but also the peacemaker.

    When going through the descriptions, I'm like, I am a little bit of everything. And I was thinking about my family because I'm not around my family that often. It's particularly my father's side, and we're planning in the family reunion, and I was supposed to take the lead on it, but apparently people didn't want to come to New York and they planned something in Florida. So right now I'm kind of being the wallflower and being a little quiet, and I'm like, you know what, I'm going to still show up and be there, still be my firecrackerself when I get there. I'm leading things. When it comes to hey, who's watching all the kids because the family union, who's watching all the kids while the Millenniums go out to the club. I'll be leading that. And then when it comes to like serving our elders, I'm ready to make sure they're served and taken care of. When I was listening to at least when she was saying, you know, planning different things she produces, I am in the stage where I'm like looking forward to going to events where I don't have to put things together. As you all know, I do this for the Sister Circle, but I just want to be quiet and enjoy the event and not plan the event. I'm looking forward to that. I am an entrepreneur who I have to take the lead and just go for it and just show myself that I can be the lead. And it's okay of gorgeous also meant to something. As I get older, becoming more mature and as a parent, I talk so much. I'm like, I just want to be quiet and be that wallflower and relax.

    I have noticed in all of my friend groups, I'm the leader, and I attribute that to for talking astrology. I'm a cancer son with the Leo Moon, so trying to be very nurturing all the time, and also boss lady energy. And so recently, though, with one of my friend groups, the best way I can describe them is high school in post college. I met half of them through my friends that I knew when I was younger, and so that's the group. And I was a leader in this group, and I noticed, to Elisa's point, that I was the one always planning and coordinating our events, and I decided to take a sabbatical from this role. But I did not tell the group that I was doing that. And I noticed because I do it in every other category or in every other relationship that I have where i'm leading, I'm leading. I'm leading. I said, oh, if y'all want to be together, somebody else planned it, but I didn't tell them that. And so recently we got on the call that I planned because I took a year off from planning with these people, so I planned my first event of this year and they said, oh, Frida, we missed this so much. You know, we were really appreciated if you did this more. And it was the first time I said, okay, y'all, I'm happy to do this, but the next one, if you want this to happen, I need someone else to plan one. I need to see someone else take this up, because the reason I stepped away from y'all is because no one else was doing anything. And they said, but you didn't tell us. You didn't tell us you were upset, and then you left us for a year, and now we done missed out on a year of sisterhood. And I said, well, damn, you're right. So this book made me think of that. And also to the folks who identify as multiples, I realize I don't want to be the leader in every group. I'm about to start being a wallflower in some groups. I'm gonna be a firecracker.

    You know.

    I need to diversify how I show up because I notice I'm over indexing in this leader category and as a least said as a producer, coordinating and scheduling every day, and as Naisha said, coordinating and scheduling for other people. I need to figure out other ways to show up and feel like that's enough, because a lot of times I think, if I'm not leading, if I'm not directing, people aren't going to have a good time, or it's not going to happen. And allowing other people around me to rise to the occasion and do it their way without thinking that my way is better.

    More from the conversation after the break, so.

    We touched on the essays of sisterhood where we show up in our friendships. I'm curious, what else has the book taught you about friendship.

    One of the things that I felt like are really validated and putting really good terms for me is that I had started many years ago now thinking in my life concentrically and that as a pyramid where this is.

    On top and everything else flows from it.

    I decided that they had to be circles, like it just was serving me.

    Better to have things not have this hierarchy. I said.

    To see that written out and really validated the choices that I've been making and made me feel like, yeah, this is This is putting into words what I have been trying to do, because especially I'm at a stage in my life obviously much different than you all, where I'm about to have an empty nest. My son graduates from high school, my daughter is in college. So and I feel like the decisions that I made when they were small are coming to blossom because I was like, I cannot make them everything. They are the most important things in so many ways, but there's got to be, Like I said, the way I think I started thinking about it, with circles that overlap, intertwine, and that there's no better or worse, there's no scale like that. They're all things that bring value to my life, my friends, my family, and not just my husband up here and the kids. That's just to me, setting yourself up for not necessarily failure, but just not the richest life you can have.

    He is so fascinating that you came to this conclusion to implement this into your life. Was there a catalyst for this moment? How did you come to this understanding of the circles instead of the pyramid? Was there a moment that is distinguishable for you?

    No, I cannot say that there was any aha moment, it just became more and more apparent that, like I said, I come from a relatively patriarchal situation in terms of the very tereotypical head of household, and not in a bad way, but in a way that I was like, I'm going to learn from this, and I've been very fortunate that I have a partner who's very respectful of that and very supportive of that because I came to this conclusion with him, and not because he was a certain way, but because this was a man who was like, the fullness and richness of your life is very important, whether or not we're together or not, So you need to do whatever is going to fertilize and help that bloom.

    It's so funny when doctor Joy put in, she says, she's going to say the most cliche thing a therapists say, everything starts with our earliest experiences. Goodness. This has come up in individual therapy, of course, and now recently grouped therapy, because I've been in group therapy for about four or five weeks, and we all agreed that, you know, our early experiences helps us understand why we're going through what we're going through now while we're seeking growth in different areas. Me specifically, asking for help was something that I did not grow up doing. My mom told me to figure it out, and collectively in group therapy, we said that a lot of family members told us that. Me specifically, a teacher told me to figure it out, and I'm like, you're my teacher and she's supposed to help me. Actually she was one of my favorite high school teachers, but that was her way of telling us. Use the internet. Now, you know, the internet was booming and just be creative. And we didn't know how to ask those things back then. And I can say for myself speaking to my mom, if she told me to figure it out, I had to go figure it out. So now, being an adult, as you were mentioning, free to plan in these things rather than going to ask someone, I will been twenty minutes of loogle trying to find an answer. So now I'm getting like, no, not, you should don't do this.

    I have.

    Thankfully I made friends from the Sister Circle from three for Thursday in Georgia specifically where I could ask questions when I need help. That's just a small example, but there's so many examples that I could share that my childhood just shaped who I am, and I'd love to touch on point as being a mom now. My childhood showed me what I don't want to show my child and how I want to be here for her. The other day, my five year old told her her other mom, I can cry because my feelings are valid, and I said yes, clap clop, clap, snapstat snap all that there was no debate. We said yes, and she said all feelings are valid. And I'm like, did I tell her that? I think I did. If I did it, I'm happy wherever she heard it from. It could have been on YouTube, but I wasn't told that when I was younger.

    I think that's really insightful, Like everything starts with like our previous experiences, our childhood experiences, and it reminds me. On page eighty eight, doctor Joy writes about trying to figure out how your own stuff is interfering with being able to hold space for someone else.

    And I think that's one.

    Of the biggest things at this book kind of knocked me over the head with is like everyone wants to be a great friend, but sometimes we have to realize when we're giving advice or when we're showing up for someone, how our past traumas, our experiences, our other relationships might be blocking or kind of blurring our vision.

    And one of the questions that she.

    Asks on that page is, is the situation my sister is confiding in me about too much like when I've experienced in the past. Am I really listening to her? Or am I replaying my own situation? And I found myself on both ends of that spectrum. So someone talking to me about something they're going through and me like feeling really triggered and like having a lot to say about it, but not backing up and realizing a lot of what I have to say is kind of based off of my own hurt and something I may have gone through and I may have experienced, and I'm not really listening to her and like holding space for what's going on with her because I'm so clouded with my stuff. And so I think what you said, Naisha, really recognizing what you want to do differently in a situation when you're giving advice, but also realizing that like to really hold space for someone and for other people means that you kind of have to let go of your past hurt and you can always be a friend from an informed place. But I really think a lot of time we get so wrapped up and so attached to our own hurts in the past that we're not able to really be there for other people. So I think that's something the book has really made me think.

    About a lot.

    And I love this book because I think it's encouraging us to take our friendships just as seriously as we take our romantic relationships, and so a lot of those questions kind of prompt me to continue to do that.

    One thing this book has taught me and shared with me is a toolkit of language to have difficult conversations with people, and doctor Joy broke it down for so many scenarios that I can anticipate having. So for me, I'm turning thirty this year, and I'm at that place where people are going to start having more children, more marriages, and then you know, for this thirties decade, there could also be divorce. There could also be parental loss. There's just going to be a lot of things that I anticipate is going to happen to and around the people that I love, and I just want to share one of them, which was if you've noticed a change in your friend since your engagement or wedding. She writes, Hey, I just wanted to check in with you. It feels like something's been off ever since I got engaged slash married. I know this is a huge change for all of us. Is there anything you want to check in about? There was one for that. There was one about having a baby. If your friend is having a difficult time conceiving and you're really excited, but you know they're dealing with something. And at this place in my life and in reading this book, it affirmed for me that the friends that I have will be open to these kinds of conversations, that we can get through them, and the power in that as opposed to what I may have done in my teens or in my twenties, which is just fade away. But in reading this book, I realized, Oh, I'm going to need these friends throughout this decade, through the forties through the fifties, this strong sisterhood and having this language to identify these conversations. And as I think at least you pointed out a aspect of curiosity and almost like an optimism that this conversation is going to go well because I know my sister and I am proactively speaking about it. It just made me feel not like I'm excited to have these conversations because I'm not, but feeling empowered that I actually can navigate them well.

    I think you spoke a huge point for you to in that ability to navigate it well and being able to speak to it well, because I think that that's a common fear for a lot of people, right, like, what do I say? I don't want them to think I'm jealous. I don't want want them to think or feel no type of way. I don't want this to make our friendship, you know, change, So it's like handing that optimism I think definitely is a key factor and a key point. And I was going to speak to that part of the book too, that was the part I was going to life, but no, you you definitely hit the points that I don't really hit on. So oh, yes, I agree with you on that one.

    And at a certain point, I know she says that the validation of change being okay, that sometimes you have to leave the people where they're at and that's okay. And I think just having that put out there and explicit terms was really helpful because you know, you go back and forth about different things, and there are certain situations that'm not salvageable and that's okay. And you have to be at peace with the ending of it that there's not necessarily going to be closure with it, and that's okay.

    And like I said, as somebody.

    Who's very solution oriented, like you tell me something, then I'm going to ask you a d C D that acceptance of things is something that I definitely have to be very conscious of because it's difficult for me.

    Kia. You brought up closure, and when doctor Joy wrote closure is not something other people give to you, I put the book down. I say, wow, Okay.

    On that same note, there's an author called Cheryl Strait. I'm pretty sure that acceptance is a small quiet room. And I feel that so much because acceptance isn't this great, big feeling.

    It's okay, you.

    Know, it's not an oversized emotion necessarily, it can be something very I mutant and only like you said, like closure, it's cousin.

    Freedom. When you mentioned that line, I'm just like it was like a godcousness, like you need to figure this out, and not in the most common way. It doesn't come from the other person. And after being on three for Thursday with Doctor Joy for almost two years, she's brung this up many times. So you know, working on yourself will help you heal, you're expecting it from the next person, then you know it's going to take a little longer. And these are her exact words, that process is going to take a little longer than you expect. And it's just bad line. And I went back to it and I'm like, yeah, period. She said it.

    More from the conversation after the break.

    So for our next question, it kind of touches a little bit on what Frida mentioned earlier about approaching conflict and friendships, and she's talked about how she implemented that in some of her own friendship So I'm curious, what have you guys taken from the book and how have you already started to implement it in your own friendships. I'll start so similar to Frida, I really love the section about conflict because, as I said before, I am the erecracker but also the peacemaker, and I.

    Think I've always struggled.

    I've been good at being confrontational, but struggled to have like a soft and caring aspect to it, and so I really appreciated a lot of the prompts. I guess they take an approach that's not confrontational, because Frieda wret the prompt about someone getting engaged and seeing their friend be distant. You could be like, you're being really shady ever since I got engaged.

    I don't like that.

    Instead of realizing, like where is this other person operating from, they may be heard. And so I think what the book has made me see our ways I can continue to exude softness but also continue.

    To approach conflict in a healthy way.

    And I think something I think about is back in twenty twenty, I had a friend who I approached about just not a very similar situation not hearing from her, especially during the pandemic. We lived around the corner from each other, we were only people in our city, and I remember I had a lot of pent up aggression about that situation.

    But something from like six.

    Months ago, and then something from two weeks ago, and I was realizing I came to her and I was at level ten.

    And she didn't even know that something was wrong.

    And so I constantly think about also looking at my own past her and like what feelings with my friends? Haven't I resolved in approaching any conflict, because, like Naisha said, the past really does inform everything we do and how we operate in every relationship, and so we're not taking the steps to address conflict as it's presented to us, we can have a lot of pent up aggressions, so that softness and that care to our friendships can kind of be lost when we want to resolve conflict if we're not really checking in with ourselves and then if we're not thinking about where's the other person on this scale? Have we talked about this before or is this like a new issue that I'm bringing up to them?

    And so the book has really helped me. I started to be a lot more self aware when approaching conflict. But who else I'm curious?

    I think for me just a reminder to be intentional and that to continue to cultivate new friendships, new relationships, that it doesn't have to be static.

    That it doesn't mean that you're going to.

    Necessarily feel the same sense of kinship with people who you've known for decades. But the way to cultivate anything, like I said, is to be intentional about it and to really be open to continuing to be there for the black women who I'm at encounter in more casual situations, to be, like I said, really purposeful and cultivating relationships with them, which I think I have been, but just a reminder to go that extra mile because we're all we've.

    Gone, I think.

    For me, it definitely reminded me that my close friends don't live here in Atlanta, right, and so it's like, oh, you need to like find and put yourself back out there now, especially since things are a little bit more safer regarding.

    The pandemic and meet more people like BRNT and I know.

    People, but I need to spend time and engage. It's like I haven't fully invested like I should. And so it was a huge reminder of like, if you want things to look different, you want that support to be more immediate and accessible to you instead of long distance, then I have to, you know, show up and really put forth effort.

    What she said gorgeous made me think about a song I learned in elementary school, and it was make new friends, but keep the one is sober and the other there's gold. I also recent I love that song. I don't know if y'all learned that it's a very California school song. Anyway. I also just moved to a new place. I'm in Washington, DC and realizing the same thing. I actually need to not be team no new friends, and if I want d C to be as wonderful and miraculous as other places I've lived, like New York City or the Bay Air to be fruitful and bountiful, I have to take that extra step and work on those relationships. I will also say this past weekend I had the opportunity to go to Los Angeles to celebrate my friend's thirtieth birthday, and weeks leading up to it, I was very reluctant. I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to go, and I just wasn't sure if I was wanting to spend the money and do all those things. And then I think it affirmed for me that the right friends and the commitment to the right friends really just energizes me in a way I can't even describe. So spending one weekend with her makes me feel like I have the energy for March in April and May. It was just that kind of experience and how real sisterhood whether it's seven years old or whether you know it's just seven months old, really impacts my health. And I think that's also one key takeaway from the book. Black women make me feel healthier, safer, more able to be myself and to be in this world. And I had never thought of it like that, even growing up, going back to what we were talking about, our experiences, our shape by our past or remember elders in my community telling me things like, oh, you know, don't keep your friends too close, or don't tell your friends about your money, don't tell your friends about your man. And then one day I was like, do you have friends?

    Do you do you have friends?

    Because what you're telling me is to fear the black women that are around me. And granted, caution is necessary. Everyone cannot be trusted. But I am so deeply moved and poured into by black women and so that's what this book reminded me of. It's just the power of friendship in a way that I had never thought about before.

    That's the joy. I actually mentioned that I forget which chapter, but she said, you know, after that girl's trip and you feel full and you feel whole. Yes, it happened for you.

    Freda and it reminded her respect and take something some elders and to discard others. Right, you have to figure out what to take and what to leave behind, because I know the same.

    It's true, you know, in terms of generational things.

    I remember I was at a family wedding and a woman who I loved dearly and respected so much. When she found out, I was like excited to tell her, Oh, I work with all.

    Black women, and she was like, how is that.

    It just felt very like, this is a black woman who I've known because she was like because she was bringing her own previous experiences, and I was like, it is truly wonderful. And like I said, this is somebody who has always been very supportive of me and just so inspirational. So to hear her try to give me her hurt in some ways it was or to color my experience with hers.

    I felt, just like I said, it was very eye opening to me.

    So for our closing, we'd love to hear why do you think this book is important to have in the library of another black woman? Why would another black woman want to have this book in her library.

    I think it would be important because this book is something you can grow with in the sense of starting.

    Maybe whether it's Genant's eighteen or young adulthood. Throughout the transition of adulthood.

    It grows with you and you can always reference that depending on the chapter phase you were in in life and have to navigate different relationships and situations.

    Every Black woman needs this book in their lives because, as Reeda mentioned earlier, there's a toolkit on how to approach different conversations and rather than going to someone who has not seen the research and done the research themselves, the toolkit is there as well as if you want to be seen and if you want ideas or how to grow sisterhood, Heels will definitely give that to you.

    I think the word decolonized is thrown around a lot. Decolonize your fitness, decolonize different aspects of your life, but I don't think people necessarily know what that means or how to do it. And I think that this book really is a key or it's how to take frameworks that weren't meant for us and really apply them in ways that can benefit.

    Us and allow us to grow.

    So, like I said, I think that that's one of the buzzwords that you hear people talk a lot about but just see ways in which you can heal, but that are outside of the standard ways that we've been taught.

    I think Sisterhood Heels is important in another Sister's bookshelf because a lot of life can feel like we're just winging it, and I don't think our relationships have to feel that way. I think sometimes we talk a lot about friendships being natural and connections being natural, and that's great and that's fine, but to maintain and to grow it does take a lot of heart, hard work. And I don't think it's wrong to listen to a podcast episode there for black girls to read Sisterhood Heels, or to go to a talk the Sisterhood Heels book tour and get your friendships together and really like check yourself and say how can I be a better friend?

    How can I be a better sister?

    And so I encourage everyone to buy the book, to read the book, to share a copy with the friend, because friendship doesn't have to be hard.

    It doesn't have to be this big.

    Secret or something that just happens and unfolds naturally like thirty forty year. Friendships really do take hard work, and I know everyone wants.

    That beautifully said by all of you, by all of us. Sisterhood Heels is available for purchase at all booksellers as of June twenty seven, twenty twenty three. It has been our honor to talk with you about this book, and prayerfully we'll be able to do this again, because this is just scratching the surface of the incredible work doctor Joy has done to put this book together for all of us to enjoy and grow from. So thank you all so much for joining us.

    So As many of you may have been able to tell, I was not a part of the conversation the team had, and I'm so honored and touched by all of their takeaways and the stories they shared. A huge thank you Takiya, Gorgeous, Frieda, Elise, and Naisha for letting us inside their book club. I would also be honored if you would take a moment to pre order your copy of Sisterhood Heels right now, as pre orders are incredibly important to the life of a book. They are would demonstrate that there is interest for a particular topic and really indicate to bookstores, publishing companies, etc. That you want more of a certain thing. Pre Orders let stores know how many books to have on hand, and I want as many sisters as possible to be able to find out about Sisterhood Heels, So please help me out by making your pre order today at Sisterhoodheels dot com and then text two of your girls to encourage them to grab it as well. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas and Elise Ellis and editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

    Take good care.

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    Therapy for Black Girls

    The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
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