Session 288: Setting Your Intentions for Travel

Published Jan 4, 2023, 8:00 AM

The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

Happy New Year y’all! It’s January and although a new year might not necessarily mean becoming a new you, it most definitely means new opportunities for you to do things to astound and impress yourself. We’re kicking off our year with our annual January Jumpstart mini-series.  All month long we’ll  be speaking with lauded and recognized women across industries about how you can activate the personal goals you might have been putting off for a while. 

Today I’m joined by Jessica Nabongo, global citizen, master storyteller, and travel expert, who is the first black woman to have traveled to every country in the world. In our conversation Jessica spoke about assessing your travel style, how to dress to the nines while traveling, how to get the most out of travel credit cards, and her best selling book, The Catch Me If You Can: One Woman’s Journey to Every Country in the World.

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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session to eighty eight of the Therapy for That Girl's Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors m M. It's January, and although a new year might not necessarily mean becoming a new U, it most definitely means new opportunities for you to do the things to astound and impress yourself. We're kicking off our year with our annual January Jump Store miniseries. All month long, we'll speak with lauded and recognized women across industries about how you can act, debate the personal goals you might have been putting off for a while. If you've been holding back on doing you, this is your sign to jump head first into the possibilities of a new year. Today, I'm joined by Jessica no Bongo, global citizen, master, storyteller and travel expert, who was the first black woman to have traveled to every country in the world. In our conversation, Jessica spoke about assessing your travel style, how to dress to the nines while traveling, how to get the most out of travel credit cards, and her best selling book That Catch Me. If you can one woman's journey to every country in the world, you have something resonates with you. While enjoying our conversation, Please share with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in session or join us over in the sister Circle. To talk more in depth about the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy for Black Girls dot com. Now, please fasten your seat belt and secure all baggage underneath your seat are in the over head compartments. We also ask that your seats and table trays are in the upright position for takeoff. Please turn off all personal electronic devices, of course, excluding the ones listening to this podcast. We appreciate you for choosing therapy for Black girls Airlines. Please sit back, relax, and enjoy your flight. But thank you so much for joining us today, Jessica, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here, so excited to have you. So you are a part of our January jump Star series. A lot of people have traveling on their lists thanks to do for the year or upcoming, and so we definitely wanted to get someone in here to give us some of the confidence and information we need to start our traveling. So I would love for you to start by telling us if somebody is unfamiliar kind of getting started with their you know, bitten by the travel bug, how do they decide what kind of trip they want to have? M H. I mean, I think it's so important to focus on your preferences and your desires and what you enjoy doing. So if you enjoy the beach, then focus on beach locations. If you enjoy city skates, then do that. So I think it really has to come from a place of what are you most interested in doing and if it's like one of your first trips, definitely what you're gonna feel most comfortable doing. That's the most important thing. And what kinds of things do you feel like people should assess for comfort. I think, especially if we're talking international travel, think about language. So if you only speak English and this is your first trip, then you probably want to look at countries that are English speaking countries. So maybe a trip to London, or if you're feeling really foggy and you want to go all the way down Under to Australia, but it's a long flight, places like Ireland Scotland. There's so many English speaking countries that you can try. I think if it's your first venture outside of the US, that's going to be the easiest to do. Or a country like Mexico where it's so conducive for worsum that even if you don't speak Spanish, you can survive traveling for the first time in Mexico. Okay, So I think most people know that you need a passport if you're traveling internationally. Is there any other documentation that people should have if they're traveling abroad. I think right now most of the COVID restrictions have been removed. You definitely want to check on the country because a lot of countries do require a COVID vaccine, so having your COVID vaccination card is important. And then if you're traveling to certain countries, you also may need a yellow fever card and to get the actual yellow fever shots. So you definitely want to use websites like IADA I A T A. You can just google ayada I A T A and then the country and then it will pull up what the requirements are for that country, just so that you're prepared and a dance and there are other immunizations that are needed for visiting other countries. Correct, It really depends on the country, so you have to look at the requirements for the country that you're visiting. Definitely, there's less requirements than there used to be. I've been traveling internationally since I was four, and there we was a longer list before, but now there's not as many immunizations needed. Mm okay, yeah, so I mean so that's something to think about if you are thinking, like, Okay, I'm going to pick up and do this next week or in two weeks. Some of them require immunizations that take longer for you to complete the series. Yeah, absolutely, yea, So definitely, you know, try as far out in advance as possible. You know, the last thing you want us to show up at the airport and you're missing something. You now, that's what we don't want to happen, right, So how would you encourage people to set intentions for the kinds of trips that they want to have. I think the biggest thing is being positive. It sounds so simple, but when I tell you, this has really changed my life because for example, I've never had food poisoning. And when I tell you, I've everything in every country that you can think of, and I've never had food poison So I'm always like, oh, my stomach is coded in positive energy. You know a lot of people hear about India and Deli belly. Never happened to me. So I think being positive is the first thing. Especially if you're a woman and you're deciding to do solo travel. We hear people are like, oh, you have to be extra careful, and I think keep your wits about you the same you would at home. Take that with you no matter if you're traveling domestically you're internationally. But don't focus on the negative. Don't focus on what might happen. You know, we don't have to always be overly prepared for what might happen. Someone might rob me, someone might do this or that. Don't focus on that, just focus on I want to travel. I'm going to have an amazing time. This is going to be incredible. Really setting those intentions, I believe it helps keep the negative at bay. Thank you for that. So, Jessica, on top of being an expert traveler and a Globle citizen, you also used to have a travel agency. So I would love to play a little game with you where I will give you some scenarios of possible travelers and trips they're wanting to plan, and see if you could make some suggestions for where they might want to go. Yes, let's do it all right. So here's the first one. So food Ca and Taylor are best friends and they're planning a girl's trip to celebrate Taylor's thirty fifth birthday. They want to travel destination where they can stay at a top notch hotel and not break the bank. It's a warm climate and there's an abundance of spas and healing centers to enjoy. Okay, I'm gonna send Funk and Taylor to Bali. Now, look, it's far. It is far, but it is so worth it. And when I tell you accessible luxury, you can go and spend a day in the spin and spend under a hundred dollars. Like Bali is definitely a great place. It's a tropical climate. You're gonna get tons of healing centers, yoga beaches, amazing customer service like great staff at hotels, and beautiful Airbnb. So I'm sending them to Valley, all right. So here's the second one. So Jamaica is planning a two week solo trip that she's taking before she starts a new job at a new company. She's looking for a destination where she can enjoy a calm countryside, immerse herself in the small town life, and enjoy fresh foods like fruits, meats and vegians on a daily basis. Okay, I am sending Jamaica to Mexico, and I'm going to send her to Wahaka. And that's because Mexico is affordable, and especially if you're doing a two week vacation, then you really I'm assuming that you want to be conscious about spending. And I just think like Wahaka is a great blend of like small town but you still get access to a lot of Mexican culture, and it's one of the best cities in Mexico for delicious food. M all right. And then finally, Denise and Eleanor are planning their first romantic getaway as a couple. They're planning a three day trip and are looking for a destination where they can see and feel nature surrounding them. It's easy to get around via car in a place with an incredible view of the stars. Oh wait, incredible feel Okay, So I was going Costa Rica. You know what, I'm gonna still go Costa Rica. So I think Costa Rica is great if you're into nature. They have rainforests obviously, that's both sides of it. North and south are on the coast, very very beautiful. So I would say I'm sending Denise and Eleanor to Costa Rica. All right. We love that. So what are some other places that maybe you want to put on the map for people that you know people still haven't quite discovered or not as many people are visiting yet. While I'm always going to point to a lot of African countries that I think people aren't thinking of. I love Namibia. I think Namibia is great beautiful landscapes. You can do some fari there and just the desert is stunningly gorgeous, and also thinking about the stars, the great views of the stars. It is probably the most beautiful nightscape that I've ever seen, Like I've never seen the Milky Way before until I was in Namibia. Outside of that, Ugunda, I'm Ugundin. I think it's an amazing country. Again. You can do safari, you have like Victoria, you have the Nile River, uh so you can go whitewater rafting on the Nile, great culture, delicious food. And a third place, I would say Miranda. Miranda is really tiny and a lot of people know it from you know, obviously the genocide, but it's bounced back in such an amazing way. It's one of the cleanest countries in the world, not in Africa, one of the cleanest countries in the entire world. Really kind people, and you can do guerrilla trekking there. What is so there's only three countries in the world where you can like actually hike into like little forests where mounts and gerrillas live and you get to like just engage with the families. You're obviously with a guide and it's all safe. But you can do that in the Congo, Rwanda and Uganda. Got it? Okay, Very very unique thing to put on your list if you're looking for something like that. So looking at the pictures that you share from the places that you visited, you're obviously very stylish, lots of great fashions. So what tips would you give for people to maximize their wardrobes and like tips for packing, especially if you want to like have a carry on or like not bring a lot of check luggage. Yeah. Number one, fabrics that do not wrinkle. I am like I appreciate polyester and ran all of those sorts of fabrics because they don't wrinkle. And I think also you want to think about bringing items that you can mix and match so that you can get more ware out of the same items. And beyond that, I love packing CUE because it just helps keep everything organized for me. So like one cube will have my underwear and my workout clothes, another cube will have like tops and bottoms, and so that way I always know exactly where everything is and if one of the cubes is missing, you know, it's like a for me, it helps me realize, like, oh, wait, I didn't pack this or I'm missing that, So that's what I recommend. Mm So you mentioned workout gear, so for people who want to because a lot of people like really enjoy having that as a part of their schedule. What kinds of things do you take into consideration where you're looking at, like where you're going to say, are you looking specifically four places with gems? Are you bringing workout gear? Like? How do you work around that? Yeah? So I definitely look for hotels that have gyms, just because like I'm not I don't love running, so I'm not a person who's gonna run around the city. But if you are a runner, I think that's great to like even call ahead and like ask the hotel, hey, is this a neighborhood that I can run in? If you enjoy running and even just walking around the neighborhood. So I like to stay in places that are very walkable just because I feel like I can experience a place more if I'm walking around. I also sometimes travel with a jump rope and resistance fans as well. Mm TO thinks they can also pack easily. Yes, lights right right, So you encourage people who want to travel more to prioritize their travel. Can you say what this looks like in a tangible sense? Yeah? Absolutely. I think what it looks like is, you know, if you're preparing for a trip, it's putting money away every paycheck in the same way that you would put away money for a car, put away money for a house. If you really want to start traveling and make it a part of your regular life, you have to put that money away. So that might mean that you're cutting back on other things. Right, So if it's the expensive coffee that you're not having any every single day, or you know you're going out with your girlfriends and you usually have three drinks, maybe just have more and so that you can save that money. I think that's important. The other thing that I do is I use credit cards with travel rewards, so I don't pay cash for anything in my life, unless it's like tips or you know, they only accept cash. I use my travel cards for every single thing because then I get all of those points and I'm like any my points. And you know, when you're spending at like restaurants, like for example, the chase that fire, if you're spending at restaurants, you get I think three or five times the points. If you're spending on travel, which includes ubers and everything, then you get like it's either three or five times the points. And so those sorts of things are just great because the money that you're spending anyway on groceries on your Uber turns into free travel. So that's another way. Yeah, okay, so see this is a secret gim So you mentioned the Chase sta Fire. Are there other cards that you would suggest for people who want to be more serious and turning points into travel. Yeah. I also like American Express Platinum because you want to look for credit cards that like multiply and specific categories. So like, I know my Chase Sapphire multiplies in the food category, so I always use that for food. The Ammex multiplies and the travel categories, so I use that for like plane ticket purchases and things like that our rental cars. So you really want to look into the details before you get the credit card. You can, like even just Google compare travel credit cards and there's so many websites that will put them side to side and that will allow people to choose the card that's right for you. So I think it's important. And another thing when it comes to budget. I always say, chase the deal, not the destination. So if you just want to travel right and you're pretty open, you can sign up for websites like the flight deal dot com, Secret Flying dot com, and airfare spot dot com and you'll get daily emails with discount of tickets. So it might be like Chicago to Peru three fifty, you know, like that's cheaper than flying some places in the United States. So it can be an opportunity to like let the deal drive where you're gonna go, and that way you can also save money. M M. Yeah, I think you know, you make a good point when you're thinking sometimes when we think about travel, we're only thinking international, but there are lots of places in the US. Yes, which would you give for people for US travel? Yes? Do it? That's my number one tip, Just do it. I love traveling within the US and I've done it for years. I've been doing road trips with my family, but during the pandemic, because you know, we couldn't really leave the country, and I ended up doing a US road trip. I drove twelve thousand miles and four months. We take the US for granted because we live here, but literally rent a car and just start driving around. Go to the states within your region. Some of my favorite states Utah. People don't think about that, Wyoming, Montana, Maine Road Island so beautiful, and you know, if you're on the East Coast, everything is so compressed. So if you're in like the d m V, right, you can drive up to Maine and that's not super far and you can visit all of the states in between, or you know whatever. I just think you it's really important that you just start by exploring your region. Go to some of the national parks, so many beautiful museums, and then even you know, no matter where you are in the country, there's different cuisine as well. So I feel like traveling within the US is could really feel like you're traveling to different countries. M So, of those twelve thousand miles, what's a route that people might want to start with if they're wanting to do US travel. Okay, so I am obsessed with New England, but again, I think the East Coast is great because it's so compact. So one thing I did was I had a long layover, I flew into Boston and I rented a car and then I drove all the way up to Maine, which was just a couple of hours, and then I stopped in New Hampshire on the way back down. You can go to Vermont, like I said, Rhode Island has amazing seafood, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and then you end up you can just go down into like New York, Delaware, Maryland, and then you can keep going down obviously to like North Carolina, South Carolina, but that whole corridor to me, if you really start in Maine and you can make your way all the way down to Florida. Literally, you feel like you're going through different countries as you're moving further south. Yeah. More from our conversation after the break. So one of the things that a lot of people like to do when they're traveling is like buy gifts and things for friends and family members. How can we make the most out of our money when we are spending on trips. Oh, that's a good question. I'm a haggler, I'm I'm your gandin so I I enjoy good haggle in the market. But I think, you know, really try to get things that are thoughtful but also connected to that place, you know, and I think don't focus on Oh I need to spend a hundred dollars if it's cheap, they won't like it. Really, I think focus on something meaningful because a lot of times you can get things that are meaningful to people that aren't very expensive. So rather than thinking about price tag or how somebody, you really think about something that's meaningful and then write a beautiful card to go with it, like why did you get this from this place for this person? Because I think you know, for me, I enjoy those gifts where people put a lot of thought into it more than like the money. It's easy to buy an expensive gift and give it to someone, but really figuring out the connection with your relationship that place and doing that little trifecta. So what do you feel like? It's a gift that you either gave or received from someone traveling that you feel like really was special? Oh oh a gift I received. So my tour guide in Jordan's Maha. She was one of the first female tour guides in Jordan's and we did like a week long road trip, so we became really close. And the day that I was leaving, I stopped at her house to like say goodbye, and she gave me a dress from her closet, which I was like, am I gonna cry? But it's so beautiful and it's like what it is. It's I can wear it like as a cover up over a swimsuit and that's how I've worn it, but like super beautiful embroidery, and I just thought that was so sweet. And you know it it cost her nothing. She literally just took it out of her closet. But it means so much to me. M hmmm, yeah, more than anything probably she would have purchased. M. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about like relationships with tour guides. Can you say a little bit about the value they've added to you as a traveler and how might we connect with tour guides for places we were looking to travel. Mm hmm. I think you know, I trust to our guides because I'm like, number one, this is your profession, and number two, you have to think most people are excited that you're in their country, So I think you have to go and be open minded. Don't be suspicious of them or think that they're trying to get over on you or anything like that. Just be genuinely open and go with an energy of curiosity and the energy of a student. Right, So I don't go into places trying to confirm what I think I know about it. I go and I'm asking a million questions because I want to hear from them, like, you know, tell me about your culture, tell me what's important? Why are these things important? And then I also ask about things like I used to do this thing where I would ask people what does love feel like? Because I just think it's really interesting to connect on a human to human level, because it helps you to realize that we're more similar than we are different. No matter the language, raised gender, none of that matters. Were a more similar than we are different. So just go into it being open minded and thinking, Okay, at the end of this, I want this to feel like a friend. If you go in with that energy, I think it just makes the entire even if it's one day or a couple of hours, I think it just makes it more impactful. And I think ultimately you'll learn more about the culture. And then as far as how to get guys literally, I use Google and usually trip Advisor comes up as a top ranking thing that helps me find guides, but I really just Google, like tour guides and ex country and then I'm a crazy review person, so I read all the reviews, but I'll just read different reviews until I find someone that I feel like will be a good fit. Do you tend to leave reviews after you've had good or not so good experiences as well? Not as much as I should. So if I have a really great experience, I do leave reviews, Like if it's phenomenal, I do leave reviews. Yet it so you mentioned earlier when we're talking about shopping, then you know you sometimes try to handle with the markets and stuff like that. I would love to hear more about, like social responsibility when traveling, and I can't imagine that in some markets in some countries, like that is expected that you will haggle, but in some places that might be seen as disrespectful or like you're not honoring the crams. So can you say more about like how you can tap into like what kinds of things are okay and not okay in a certain country. Yeah, I mean I think that's where guides come in, handy or talking to people at the hotel. You can ask them because typically if you're going to a market, I would go downstairs and say, hey, what's the best market in the city. Are the prices negotiable or how does that work for me? If there's something specific I'm looking for, I'll ask a local person how much should I pay for this? Because I know I'm not going to pay the local price, but I'm also not trying to pay triple So I'm like, let's find a happy medium. And I think that's okay, right, Like, of course we should be paying more than locals pay because typically our current to see is stronger and we probably have more money. So I'm fine with paying more than the local price, but I'm not trying to like pay your whole month's rent because I just don't know any better. So I think definitely tap into local people to figure out what's right and what may not feel good to the people that you're buying from. MM In addition to shopping at the markets, are there other ways when we're traveling abroad that we can make sure that we are using our dollars in a way that supports the local economy. Tip tip tip, tip, tip tip, You know, I think tip your housekeepers in the hotel, tip your driver's dorman. You know what I mean? When you eat, because in most countries outside of the US, tipping is not standard, especially in restaurants. It's just not standards. So I think just find ways to tip, because that's putting money directly in someone's pocket, you know. And I think when it comes to travel agencies and to work lives, try to find locally owned companies. Especially in a lot of like African and Asian countries, you'll find that French people own it or British people own it. So really try to dig a little deeper and find places that are locally owned, because that means that money is staying in the country versus like you're spending your money and that's going back to Paris or London. Got it. And this may be again a bit of a novice question, but usually if I've traveled internationally, like money exchange happens in the airport? Is that typically how we are switching dollars into whatever the local currency is or are there other mechanisms for doing that? So I always use an a t M because the bank rate from an a t M is always going to be the best rate because typically in airports they're charging commissions right and so but now it's the question of like who do you bank with? Right? So for example, I have a Charlish Schwab checking account that I only use for travel because there's no foreign transaction fees in any a t M fee I pay, they refund me. So you know, you go to an a t M and it's like this, a TM is charging you three dollars. At the end of the month, they'll give me all of those fees back and they don't charge a like foreign a t M fee, whereas like my Chase account charges I think three dollars for every a t M that, like non Chase a t M that I use, plus that a t M is charging me a fee, So then every time you go you might be spending six dollars, which is a lot. I mean, you know, so you can't just go and get money as you need. Then you have to like plan how much money do I need so you're minimizing it. So I would say look into like a Child Schwab or any other bank that refunds a t M fees, and beyond that, if you're using a traditional bank like a Chase, then just plan how much money you're gonna need so that you can just do it in one single go. But using an A t M is definitely going to be the best exchange right for you. And sorry. The last thing is that's if you need cash. Other than that, I again, I use my credit cards when I travel because there's no foreign transaction fees, and so if you're in restaurants and things like that, you can always still just use your credit card. Just make sure your credit card doesn't have foreign transaction fees because if it does, then it's like an extra three percent and you don't want to pay that either. Some people talk about if you travel from Atlanta to New York, sometimes your card will get flagged because they don't expect you to be in New York. So I can imagine if you're traveling abroad, you want to let your credit card company know that you're gonna be somewhere else. Absolutely definitely let them know. You do not want to be in a situation like what happens to me in Hong Kong years ago, and I cut my credit card off and I had no money, and thank god I had a friend who lived in Hong Kong. He was dropping me at the train station and luckily he was able to pay for my train ticket because I had no money, and I mean that bank saw the worst of me when I got home because I had been using the car. They just suddenly cut it off. So please make sure you call your bank and your credit cards and you let them know where you're traveling. Usually they'll ask you what countries are you going to so that they put it on your account. Got it? Got it. So what are some countries that you feel like have a really strong tourist infrastructure that supports and empowers to local people. Oh, that's a good question. I think Kenya is quite good. Kenya has been in the tourism game for a really long time, and I think they do a really good job. I think Mexico is pretty good as well. Obviously, in Mexico, the tourism industry is like one of the largest providers of jobs in the country. It comes down to like thinking about every single person you're interacting with, and even if you're giving them a dollar, that dollar could change their life, you know what I mean, So really thinking about that. So you talked about this a little bit in terms of some of the stories that people have around solo level. What do you feel like it's most often misunderstood about solo travel. I think most often misunderstood is that it's scary. I really want people to release that fear. And I've been to every single country in the world. I did eighty nine countries solo, and a lot of the ones I did solo our countries that were on the like state departments do not travel list. And the reason I survived and thrived in my travel is because of the kindness of strangers. So the biggest thing that I've learned traveling to every country in the world is that most people are good. And even in my book The Catchman If you Can, I talk about the kindness of strangers because we have this idea of if we travel abroad, something's gonna happen, especially if you're a woman, and no like release that fear nine times out of ten or like nine point nine times out of ten, you're gonna have an amazing time. So release that fear because it is safe. Yes, something might go wrong, but it's it's super unlikely that anything is gonna go wrong. So I think the safety of it all is something that people overplay. So what's the tip that you would share for any of our community members who are shy and more introverted, but they are really seeking like these authentic kinds of experiences that you've talked about, Like what kinds of things would you suggest for them putting themselves out there. So one thing I think about is like, pretend to be someone else. You know, like you're traveling abroad, you're outside of your comfort zone already, no one knows you. Pretend to be someone else if that's gonna give you a little more confidence. Me and my friends didn't in Cuba, but we literally we made up new names, we made up personalities, and we just were different people and it was really fun for the night. But I think that might be a way for people to just practice stepping outside of themselves. I think the most beautiful thing about travel is like it gives you a sense of freedom. A lot of times we remain the people we are, and we find it hard to change because we're constantly around the same people, and you know, you're used to those relationships and you react a certain way in those relationships. But when you're traveling, you have a newfound freedom. So it's like you can be somebody completely different when you're abroad. A lot of people when they solo travel, don't want to sit down and have dinner by themselves. Eat at the bar, because then if you eat at the bar, you can chat with the bartender. Usually somebody else will come and sit and they might be alone, so you can chat with them. I mean, even I'm in l A, I go out to dinner by myself and sit at the bar, and you know, sometimes I end up chatting with couples. So I think that's a really good way to like put yourself out there. I think also if you're trying to like build up your confidence for solo travel, start in the US, Start near your home. Take yourself out to dinner at home in your hometown, and so then you can start to build that confidence of being out being alone, go to the theater by yourself, start doing those little things so that it helps you to build your confidence a little closer to home. M hmm. More from our conversation after the break. So, I know, for a lot of people, a part of the fun of travel is sharing all of the beautiful pictures and you know, letting people know kind of what you've been up to. But I also understand that there's a safety component to that. So what tips would you share for people about how to safely share about their travels online. Yeah, so I don't post in real time typically, like you said, for safety, I don't post in real time. I think that's important. I think as far as geo tagging, that is something you can definitely geo tag, but be careful that you're not still at that place. And also I would say about geo tagging, be selective. So if you're somewhere out in nature and it's really beautiful and there's not a lot of people, maybe don't geo tag it, because what we don't want to happen is that places that are beautiful end up getting destroyed because there's too many people coming. So like for me, obviously I have a large platform. I've had to not geo tag places sometimes and people get upset with me, and I'm like, we need to preserve some things. We've seen what's happened in Morocco and New Zealand and a lot of other places where there's so much tourism it's kind of started to destroy certain things. So I think with geo tagging, you just want to be selective so that you're not flooding a place. But yeah, I think as long as you delay your posting, I think you should be fine. Kay. So what does it mean to be a nomad to you? I want to be a nomad. To me, it's just to be a citizen of the world and to look at every stranger as a potential friend. It means to me like that you're living a borderless life right and really allowing the universe and humanity to support you on your way. Not financially, but you know, just like be your guides, be your friends, and just sort of help you to live the richest experience you can in that moment. MM. So you already have two homes wanting with Hollywood went in Detroit. So what two new locations are on your list for a possible new home basis, I definitely want to get a place in Senegal and that's my little happy place, So I'd love to build a house there on the coast. And Carta Hana and Colombia, I really love it. There's just something about Carta Hanah that I love, so I'd love to get a place there as well. So You've already given us some great stories, but we love a good story here on therapy from Black Girls. So because you had so many adventures. I'd love for you to share, if you're comfortable, a story of a place you traveled to and like met someone and kind of instantly became a great friend or somebody who became a close part of your circle. Oh. Actually, I have a really good story. My friend Nana Konoma, she's gonna and and we actually met at Nelson Mandela's house in Johannesburg. And I remember seeing her and I was like, oh my god, this girls. I was stunning. She's very tall, She's like six ft tall, super dark skin and just stunning. And she had on this bracelet. I was like, oh my god, your bracelet is so beautiful whatever. And every time I saw I was like, oh my god, it's just so beautiful. And she was like, you can have it, and I was like what, And she gave me her bracelet. And fast forward to today, that's one of my closest friends. Like she came to the Say Shells, which was my last country. I've spent time with her and her family in Ghana, and we've out in the US. We've traveled to Brazil together, Egypt together. And it all came from we were at Nelson Mandela's house in Johannesburg, and I liked her bracelet. It's a great the origin story there. So you've already talked a little bit. You mentioned your books if we definitely want to talk about that to catch me if you can. So, you visited all of the countries, like you mentioned, how has traveling the world impacted how you see and understand yourself as a black woman living in America. M hmm. That's so interesting for me. I understand how much freedom is outside of the United States, right. I think that's the biggest thing, and I try to maintain that even when I'm in the US. So what do I mean by that? I feel like in the United States people you all are making us constantly think about the fact that are black. Right, we have to constantly be reminded like I'm black and black and black, Like I get it, Okay, guys, I can get it. You know what I mean? And I mean that's reminders from rude people in stores or people who don't want to help you, people who don't acknowledge you when you walk into rooms like those constant reminders of your blackness. And when you're abroad, I would say in my experience that goes away. For the most part, I'm African appearing, so I still have issues with immigration a thousand percent, But beyond that, you realize it just doesn't matter. And so a lot of people, you know, I hear, oh, which countries are safe for black people, and I don't subscribe to any of that. I believe you should go where you want to go. And again I believe go and you be positive. I don't have a lot of memories of like being super negatively treated because I'm black outside of immigration, because they just give me the blues. But once I'm in the country with full sure, maybe here and there there's somebody rude out a restaurant or whatever, but like, for the most part, people are welcoming and they embrace you, and no one cares what you look like. And so I think for me being back in the US primarily now, I try to keep that in mind. And obviously it's a different context, but I don't allow my race to be a hindrance for me. I'm like, I'm dope and I'm black. You're welcome, you know what I mean. Like, to me, my blackness is a benefit for whatever company that I'm working with. I'm like, oh my god, how lucky are you? You get somebody who's dope and you get to check the box of diversity because I'm black. So I think, to me, it's like it's a bit of a superpower, right because it is an opportunity to stand out because I exist in a lot of spaces where I'm the only black person, you know, and I'm fine with that. It doesn't make me uncomfortable. Again, I'm like, you're welcome. Look at all of this joy that I've brought in here just from my being. So I really think that's how it's affected my thinking about being black in America. Mmmmm. So I wonder if you could give us a little bit of some insight into how you want people to engage with the book, because it it's such a beautiful presentation. So they're over three hundred images, the book is also available as an audiobook, and you're speaking over seventy languages in the audio book. So how do you want the readers and listeners to actually engage with the book? Okay, thank you for asking that. I really appreciate that. Please read it cover to cover because you know a lot of people they'll pick it up and they're like, Okay, i'm traveling this country, I'm gonna read this story. But there really is a narrative that's the through line throughout the book. So I just asked, please read it cover to cover and then you can use it as a reference book later. So a lot of people told me they enjoyed listening to the audio book because it's just you know, with books, it's easier to just listen to them, but then you obviously, with over three hundred images, you have that to look at, and it's I think it's really beautiful. One of my favorite things about this book it was designed by a black woman. There were not a lot of black people involved in making o this book. It's with National Geographic, but it was designed by a black woman. It's the first time a National Geographic book has had gold foil on it. That was all her idea. So everything you've seen and obviously they're my pictures, but it's her design that got us here. So I'm just so happy that it was designed by a black woman. So it's really beautiful. It's great for your coffee table. But I just asked that you please read it cover to cover at some point. Thank you. Thank you for that history. So you also on your blog wrote a really powerful blog post entitled My ten Favorite shiphole Countries, where you detailed the incredible beauty and magic of country, some of the ones you've already talked about, like Haiti, Sudan in Tanzania. Why was it important for you to write that and why do you think it's important for us as travelers to disengage with this kind of rhetoric and experienced countries for themselves and for my own opinions? Yeah, I mean, you know that guy who used to be in office, who was making all types of crazy remarks. I said it after the comments that he made that came out. Yeah, the thing is like and we're seeing it clearly now. Right before people didn't quite understand the bias and the media. Now it's just incredibly clear how biased it is. But I always say, just unplugged from all of that. It's okay if you don't watch CNN, nothing will happen in your life. But I think it's really important that you go to places before you make judgments about them, or talk to guides and advance, because they're always going to know more about their country than a CNN right, or a Fox News or whatever it is people are listening to and watching. But I really hope through reading the book, because the book has a lot of countries that aren't on the traditional tourism path, I really hope that this book, in my journey in general, just helps people to think differently about certain places. You know, like in the book there's a picture of a beach and Yemen. Who has ever seen a beautiful picture from Yemen? It's just not something we see. So even in writing the book, I was so intentional about the countries that I included, because I only included one hundred of the I was super intentional about it because I remember reading this book years ago. It was a book that had an image and a in like an entry for every single country in the world. Right, So I'm a geography nerd. I was excited. And I go to Uganda and there was a picture of a little dirty boy in the market, and that's the only picture that was representing my country. And I'm like, what you have, La Victoria. You have the source of the Nile River, you have other lakes, mountains, animals, beautiful people, and gorgeous textiles. And this is the singular image that you pick to go into a book to represent Uganda, and that stuck with me all these years. That was probably like fifteen years ago. So when I had the opportunity to work with National Geographic, I'm like, I want to share beautiful images of places, you know what I mean. We don't see pictures of people that give them their dignity. There's a picture of a man in South Sudan in a market and I think he's so beautiful, right, and he was just literally sitting in the middle of the market. So you know, someone who doesn't look like me, it might take his picture and it's like, oh God, this poor man is sitting in the market on the floor. But I take it and it's like, look at the beauty of this man. And then I got his story and actually he was retired and all his children had grown and we're in school and we're gone, and so he just sat there to entertain himself all day. But we make assumptions about people, especially people again who are not African going in. They make assumptions and make things appear the way that maybe they actually aren't. So yeah, I just think we have to give places a chance and sort of tune out the noise before you go. So, Jessica, where can we stay connected to all of the amazing things that you have going on? What's your website as well as any social media handles you'd like to share? Yeah, so my website is the catchman. If you can dot com and then you can find me hang out mostly on Instagram at Jessica no bongo. Okay, well we should include that in the show notes. Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and expertise with us today, Jessica. I think this will help lots of future travelers, so I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I'm so glad Jessica was able to join us to share her exercise with us today. To learn more about her and her work, or to grab a copy of her book, visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session to and don't forget to text two of your girls right now and tell them to check out the episode. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters. Come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet, design just for black women. You can join us at community dot therapy for black girls dot com. Thank you all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care.

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The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
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