The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
In our first introduction to Wakanda, we flocked to the theaters with jubilation and pride to revel in the on-screen magnificence. The characters, costumes, and world-building. But, this time, the experience of going to the movies with family and friends to see the new Black Panther film felt fundamentally different. Many of us were adorned in white, bodies calm, and hearts steady as we prepared for what we knew would be both a cinematic gem and a grieving experience. Grief for the loss of our beloved Chadwick Boseman, our Black Panther, grief for the world that has drastically changed since the original film premiered in 2018, and the private grief we all hold in our hearts for our own meaningful reasons. It all felt like seeing your favorite cousins at a funeral. You're happy to see them because it's been a minute, but you wish it were under different circumstances.
This week, our beloved podcast production team, Cindy, Ellice, and Fredia join me to discuss Black Panther 2: Wakanda Forever. We explored the complexities of grief displayed across characters in the film, comment on storylines we were surprised and delighted by, and make predictions for the future of the Black Panther franchise. This episode does contain spoilers.
Resources
Check out Session 47: The Psychology Behind Black Panther
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Where to Find the Production Team
Cindy Okereke
Ellice Ellis
Fredia Lucas
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Our Production Team
Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard
Producers: Fredia Lucas, Ellice Ellis & Cindy Okereke
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session of the Therapy for a Black Girl's podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. In our first introduction to Wakanda, we flocked to the theaters with jubilation and pride to revel in the on screen magnificence, the characters, costumes, and world building. But this time, the experience of going to the movies with family and friends to see the new Black Panther film felt a little different. Many of us were adorned in white bodies, calm and heart steady as we prepared for what we knew would be both a cinematic gym and a grieving experience. Grief for the loss of our beloved Chadwick Boseman, our Black Panther, grief for the world that has drastically changed since the original film premiered in and the private grief we all hold in our hearts for our own meaningful reasons. It all felt like seeing your favorite cousins at a funeral, happy to see them because it's been a minute, but you wish it were under different circumstances. To discuss what kind of forever in depth this week, I'm joined by our beloved podcast producers Cindy Elise and Freedom. We explore the complexities of grief displayed across characters in the film, comment on storylines we were surprised and delighted by, and make predictions for the future of the Black Panther franchise. Please note that this episode does include spoilers for the film, so if you haven't had the opportunity to watch, please put the episode on pause in return once you've had time to enjoy it. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session or join us over the sister circles to talk more in depth about the episode. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation. So we are chatting today for another wonderful producers Chad about one of our new favorite movies, Black Panther to What KINDA Forever? So again, if we could just start by doing introductions of who you are in your role on the team. Hi, I'm Cindy and one of the producers. Hi, I'm at least I'm one of the producers on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Hey I'm free. I'm also one of the producers here at Therapy for Black Girls. Perfect all right, So I thought that we could start, as at least suggested, by going around and saying three adjectives that would describe your experience of watching What KINDA Forever? I don't have three adjectives, but I have three words. Colonizer's watch out. You have a message. I'm just picking up with the message of the film. What about you? At least it was soul stirring. I feel like that's a good way to describe it. Dynamic, and it was funny. I thought it was funny. Mm hmmm. I think my three words would be moving, beautiful, and thought provoking. That would be mine. Cindy, did you have three words that would describe your experiencing what kind of forever three words? I think heavy, isolating, and beautiful. Isolating is an interesting choice. Say more about isolating. Yeah. I think it's also because, like I had recently experienced a passing and so like it was lovely to to kind of like see grief manifested on screen, but I also went by myself, and I also was like feeling very like withdrawn personally because I was just like in that reflective space. I think I was processing a lot of emotions in tandem with the movie, and so in certain ways, like there were moments that I felt very isolated, just because like I had been carrying like a lot of grief and like all the different stages and phases, like the first one, I remember being so excited and ready to celebrate, but like going to see this one, I was a little bit fearful. I think it was because I was worried about how overwhelming the emotions were going to be for me, both the fictional ones, but also the ones that are real for me, and so I ended up choosing to see it by myself just because I wasn't sure if I was going to like cry through the whole thing and just be disruptive. So yeah, so let's talk about like your experience of going to the movie so before when we found out that it was coming out. Of course it was this whole family meeting around, like wearing white to the theater, like bringing all of your people. And what was your experience of seeing the film for the first time, because I believe both of you have seen it multiple times. I've only seen it once. But what was your experience the first time? Did you wear white? Did you go with your family? What was it like? I did not get the memo of wearing white and was properly annoyed with myself and my squad. We literally were looking like, oh, you know, I think we we missed something online. We didn't get. This is embarrassing. Somebody have any white socks to show? Please? What about you? At least the first time I actually went by myself, I didn't wear a white but it was great singing alone. The second time I went with a big group of people also didn't wear a white or anything like that, but it was I liked chatting with everyone. I think I went with twelve people about their expectations for the movie and what they liked about the first one, if they really remembered it because Black Panther One was so long ago. And then after kind of deciphering with people like didn't live up to your expectations? Do you think they did? Chadwick Justice, all those different things. So going with a lot of people was exciting because I kind of got a range of opinions about the movie other than my own. M I hear that. So even though I have not seen it again, I do plan on seeing it again. So I saw it for the first time with my husband and two kids, and so I felt like I was a little distracted because it's a long movie, so we had to have a potty break in the middle. So I feel like I missed some some pretty crucial conversation, and I felt like I was answering a lot of questions. So I feel like I need to go back for myself when I can be undistracted. But we did not wear white, so I do feel like there was more, at least for me. It felt like I was in character for the first one, right, so I think I had a head wrap on and like all black. I don't think we had a specific color theme for the first one. I think it was just like getting in some kind of like costume or you know, what we would imagine people would wear in Wakanda. And I didn't feel that same energy for this one, and I think it it was a part of grief, right, like a loss of Chadwick. And I'm sure we will talk about, but to me, I was very excited about seeing this film, but it didn't feel as like joyful maybe or like you know, like I didn't have that same level of a high wanting to go see this one as I did the first one. So what do you feel like has stayed with you since you saw the film. I think the thing that has stayed with me is like the sunrise sort of feeling where there's like always hope and joy, like there's always something else on the other side. Like that seems to have been the theme that like stuck with me the most after seeing it, is that like the sun will still rise and like you have the opportunity to like have what's next, which is really cool. What stuck with me was the way that Queen Ramonda, played by Angela Bassett, the way that she delivered a very painful punishment to Akoyer, but also was merciful in that punishment. Initially, when I saw the scene, I thought Queen Ramonda was being too harsh, Like in the initial moment when a Coyer is crying and she's like, and we know this as the audience we root for. I was rooting for a Koyer. She's clearly is willing to lay her life down for this kingdom and for the royal family and for everything that the country stands for. And I was like, oh, Queen Ramonda, like you're being a little rough, you know, like taking really her livelihood away from her in front of everybody. I just felt so for a moment, I just felt like so much. But then when she defended her actions and I really thought about it, as a queen, she could kill a Koya for this. This is punishable by death by other kingdoms. Right, You've lost the princess. And I realized, even when people harm black women and we are rightfully entitled to be angry, I'll still think, oh, maybe you should be a little nicer and even having to unlearn that as a black woman. No, let her be mad, Let her be furious. She has lost everything. I'm sympathizing with the Koya's character. Akoya didn't lose her daughter. Acoya didn't lose her son. Granted, Acoy did everything to protect those two individuals for what I know of her, but that's what stuck with me. Let black women be mad. She didn't want to be mad with a Koya. She didn't want to have to strick her from being the general of the army, but it had to be done. And I think personally for me going into my thirties in this next year in three, identifying when it's really more than acceptable to be furious and how you can still be merciful and respectful even when you're laying the law down on somebody. And I think that that was a lesson that I really needed to learn. I did not look at it that way. I appreciate you, shann and I hadn't hadn't seen it in that way, but I clearly see what you're saying, now, what about you? At least would have stayed with you. You guys all talked a little bit about this, but of course, grief was a really big theme in the film, and I think between Kingdom Or, Queen Ramonda, Nikia, and Sherry, they all were experiencing grief. And what stuck with me about that was how grief can be like a vehicle to a lot of other emotions and a lot of other actions that I guess there's a range of responses to grief, and I think you saw it through each of those characters. And so with Queen Ramunday was anger that was a big part of her grief, and with Serry, she was grappling between anger and forgiveness, and you saw that in the scene with kill Monger's character all that in that scene. And then with Nikia, it was isolation, like she went to Haiti, she didn't come back for the funeral, She really removed herself from Wakanda, which probably was a big symbol of her grief. And then I don't have the clearest picture of this, but for Kingdom or the Water King, when it looked like he was also really angry about his homeland being taken away, what was being done to his people, then having to hide and defend themselves against like the Western World are just world powers in general, and so it seemed like he was just very angry at the situation his country was in or his kingdom was in. And I think, to point to what Frieda said, sometimes we police the way people of color respond to grief. And I think all those characters painting like a very beautiful picture and a realistic picture of how people respond to being exploited, being violated, death, things like that, which I think all encompass grief. M I completely agree with you, and you know, I know, in kind of thinking about us recording this episode, we were talking about like, Okay, at what point did you start crying in the movie? I started crying from the beginning, Like I cried throughout as soon as the credits started rolling, Like the Silent Mintage of Chadwick, I started crying from the beginning and cried on and all throughout. Some of them were I feel like, tears of sadness, but also I feel like just very moved, Like it just felt very stirring to me, just because again, like this whole world built with like all black people and other people of color, like to me, it's just so incredible and feels like aspirational in some ways. Such such a departure from actual reality. And I also felt like I found myself. And I know that some of the tears I was crying really had thing to do with the film, right, Like, I feel like it just was a way for me to release I think some of what I was holding onto, like my own grief not necessarily related to like losses of people, but like just the losses of the past couple of years and just you know, the loss of Chadwick and thinking about you know, we've seen the cast as they've done pressed forward and talking about how they all were grieving collectively. So I'm also imagining like what that was like for them to be on set with one another without him, and you know, just thinking about what this experience had been like for his family. So I feel like the film just kind of pulled on a lot of that, and I think a lot of people had similar reactions, you know to kind of the grief related to the loss of him, but also whatever was going on in your own personal life. I think the film gave us space for for that to kind of come to the surface. I held my tears until the very end, but when yeah, because I because I didn't want to cry, because I lost someone this year, a male figure in my life, And similar to what Cindy was saying, it's just knowing that you have to continue on without this person and they would want you to do that. I feel like that's a that's a narrative that has been true and consistently shared about this film. We all want Black Panther to continue, and knowing that in order for us to do that, we have to continue without Chadwick. And in order for me to continue on without my life, I have to do it without my loved one. So I didn't want to cry because I just felt like as soon as I started, I don't know what I would stop. But when Sherry got to the beach, there's something about the ocean, maybe because there's just so much water around you. Crying next to the ocean, you feel like your tears are so small, no one can see these. Everyone's focusing on the ocean. That's a much bigger body of water than what's coming out of my eyes. When she sat down, I felt like, you know, eventually we all will have to sit down, or not, eventually we will have to but it is in our best interest to eventually sit down and really circumb to the sadness that you might feel, and I just let it all out. And then Rihanna's song Lift Me Up is just so beautiful. It's just it's so good. There's something about it that really touched a court in my heart. And I do think that that speaks to to your earlier point in lease around like the different ways that people manage grief. And we saw that even with sureI and Queen Romanda. You know, the Queen was trying to move through these like stages of grief, like these are the rituals we burned the clothes, whereas Surely it felt like kind of threw herself into her work, was doing more intellectualizing, like not wanting to deal with the grief, until she realized, like there is no outrunning it, like you cannot outwork it. Like grief will always make a space for itself, whether we want to do that or not. And so sometimes it is easier to just allow ourselves to make space for it, as opposed to trying to outwork it or outrun it, or throw ourselves into all kinds of different projects whatever we used to to cope with it. Sometimes it is just best to kind of make space to process and deal with it. So the other thing that I think that there had been a lot of speculation about and like, Okay, we knew I think with some of the later trailers that there was going to be another Black Panther, like somebody was going to be wearing the costume. I don't think we knew who. I think kind of we were guessing, like, Okay, this looks like a woman's figure, so we think maybe this is a woman. So how did you all feel about the fact that Shari was the one who became the next Black Panther. I loved it. I thought in the first movie she was more of like comedic relief, even though she was really important to a lot of the action, her being the Black Panther and just also her being the central figure in the movie kind of moving the story forward. I think it was fun to see like just her character I think advance, and I think having her be the Black Panther was kind of like the cherry on top of that, and a scene in the movie that signified that Sherry is more than like a sidekick, and so I did enjoy that, and I think we saw that in the first movie, like she's the one behind the technology. So it was very fitting for her to like take that on because one, no one could have understood the Black Panther role like her because of her relationship to the technology, but also because it was her brother. And so I thought that was really fitting. And you're probably gonna touch on this, but at the end of the movie, we find out that T'Challa has a son, and so I'm really excited looking forward to see his relationship with Sherry and how if he's going to take over the role of the Black Panther, if he's interested in that, And so I thought it was really heartwarming, But it also kind of moved Sherry to a central character instead of like the funny little sister. I really loved the princess Sherry became the Black Panther. I was very inspired by her recreating, reigniting the heart shaped herb that gives them the Vibratian powers. And I think it was firing because if at any point in time, you ever think there's been so much hardship in your family and sometimes it just feels like your family can't bounce back. It just felt like even if all of your resources, everything that your family has ever known that defined them. Even if it's all burned to the ground, your family lineage will never die if you continue, if you continue to love each other, if you continue to believe in yourself, if you continue your your family lineage doesn't die with the dead. It lives on with the living. And because we saw kill Monger burn all of it, but with her genius, in her tenacity and brilliance, she literally brought the family back. And I feel like I feel like that. I feel like I'm going into a time in my life where I'm thinking, wait a second, am I the future matriarch of my family? Like, oh, yeah, my grandma passed, my mom will pass one day, it'll be me. I gotta get this family together. And if Sure you can do it, I can't too. I just think that, like having Sure You become the Black Panther is one of those things where it is showing the place of innovation within tradition and so like there's a way that she's like marrying like the old rituals and traditions to a new kind of like outlook, and like that just shows you how like cultures and communities continue to evolve, and like that resiliency is also why we're still here. Like when you think about black culture, you think about like the African diaspora, there's a lot of separation and a lot of innovation that happened within that, and that's the reason that like we're able to have all these different like expressions of who we are that are still linked. And so for me, I also feel like, sure, you're becoming the Black Panther in that way, despite like you know her, I guess like rebellion against like traditional rituals and stuff, like when her mom was trying to get her to do all those things, but she still found a way to like integrate those two things together for herself, and it still allows for Wakonda and the Black Panther to continue on. And so that's what I love the most about this choice is that it shows a way forward in a way that allows to be like more expansive and like break what you think that you know about what it means to be the Black Panther more from our conversation after the break. So one of the other things that I really loved, and I think y'all are kind of speaking to some of this. It definitely feels like the quote unquote black girl magic felt very strong in this film, and so you know, I loved all of the genius of Shari and I always love the dorm malajing like they're so powerful and like to me, it is just such a departure from what we typically see on screen in terms of like the armed protectors, like and for it to be a whole army of black women like that, to me, it's just so incredible. But I also really love the introduction of re Re Williams, who now of course is a part of the Marvel universe and you know, to your earlier point at least around funny, Like I really feel like some of the dynamics with Shurey Rearly and a Coyer were like some of the funniest moments on screen. So I really enjoyed that, and I found like a part of that is what was so moving to me too, is that like you see this world where like black women are in control and like just doing all the things right, like like there is no part of Wakanda that is not touched by a black woman kind of running things, which I also find like just incredibly inspirational. I loved Dreary so much. It was So the second time I saw the movie, I had dipped out the theater for like ten minutes to drink and I came back right when she was introduced. I was like, great, this is like my favorite part of the movie. She was so lively. Honestly, her energy kind of reminded me of Shicari Richardson. She had a I D GF attitude, but she was really smart and she knew that she was really good at what she did. And I think that was really refreshing to see because a lot of times black women, especially black girls, aren't really affirmed like, oh, yeah, you're really smart and okay to like be cocky about that and be proud of that. You don't have to be like, you know, the humble nerd in the corner. And so I thought that was really exciting. It was good to see kind of the dynamics between like a Wakandan and then like a Black American. I liked again how that like African diaspora was highlighted through that. Obviously, like she had braids and they were like so many different styles in Wakanda and in the States. But it was just really beautiful to see like so many different types of black women on screen. And then it was really heartwarming at the end of the movie to see Sherry fix up her car and she had lost her dad as well and had worked on the car with her dad, and so them kind of connecting like over grief and like understanding, like those mementos are really important, just like the Black Panther suit was important to Sherry. I thought that was really beautiful too. So Maku was one of my favorites from the original Black Panther, but I really really loved him in Black Panther too, because I do feel like his role had expanded, right, and so I loved the dynamic that it seems like he has now with Shorey, right, And it does feel like there was some conversation with Prince T'Challa around like, you know, kind of take care of her kind of in my absence, and so it feels like he has become like this wise confidante to her. And at the end, I was a little confused, and I feel like I didn't know if he was trying to be funny by like showing up to the ceremony saying like, oh, I'm challenging for the throne, Like do you think he is going to become like the like day to day ruler of Wakanda, like the king of Wakanda, and then sure he is just gonna be off like being the black Panther or like what do you think all of that meant? At the end, Umbaku is the rightful an appropriate king for Wakanda. He has been a trusted advisor. He has shown up for this community. Every time they are in a pail of trouble, he sends his soldiers in. He has graciously lost and accepted defeat when he was not able to be the king. And I feel like now it's truly his rightful time to be king of Wakanda, and that is what I'm rooting for. I I kind of saw it as like a sign of respect because this is something that he's always done with every leader of Wakanda is like com in to challenge. So I think it's also in a way an acknowledgement that like he does recognize that Sherry is black panther and that she's not just this like little sister scientists whatever, but like it is a true ruler and like should be challenged in the traditional sense as well. So I I kind of saw it that way, a little like tongy in cheek, but like also I don't know how serious he is, but you know, it's always fun. But just to clarify, was sure at that event, I thought she wasn't there. She wasn't. No, she wasn't. That's why I was like, that's what I'm saying, Like I don't know if she likes sent him. Yeah, I feel I felt like she sent him like in her place, like she was going to Haiti to reconnect with Nikia and you know, kind of make peace with her grief, and she sent him. That's what I was imagining, so that it was like a comic relief, not that he was actually going to be the taking over, but I've seen some people speculate that, like it's going to be like a splitting of duties where he's going to be like the king of Wakanda and she will be the black panther and Baku is definitely the rightful like next leader of Wakanda. I think it makes sense. I think he's done a lot for the nation, and it's clear that he is a good leader but also still has love because I think a lot of good leaders are just like seeking control and power, but I think he really has love for the people, and also like consistently he could really only protect his own tribe and his own people, but has done more than that. But then also like Sherry's young and has like a lot of life to live ahead of her, and so being in the position where you're the leader of an entire nation, that's a lot. I know, I wouldn't want to be CEO at twenty or twenty four. It's and it sounds good, but dealing with a lot of grief, probably wanting to work on like her own like technological advances, just being like young and fun. I don't know if that's really all she wants to get into. And so I think she trusts Imbaku and respects him, and so I think that's a great set up for like the future of Wakonda. That's a good point. So how do people feel seeing Michael B. Jordan's pop up in the film when Srwery arrives to the Ancestral Plane. I knew it wasn't going to be what she expected, just because I guess my thought process there was like, oh, people always talk about like genetically modified things, like mad things. I was like, Oh, they're definitely gonna throw in like something going wrong with that, and so she had her GMO purple herb and he popped up. And I think, like I said earlier, it was very reflective of the types of emotions and thoughts and traumas you can tap into when grief happens, and so a big part of the grief she was experience, saying, kill Monger played a role in that, and so I think it was very like natural and I wasn't too surprised that he came up. I was like, Okay, this definitely makes sense, and I think he challenged her thinking and that maybe I think he was right, like maybe your brother was a bit too noble, but that wasn't a bad thing. But I think it kind of demystified and showed her like a new light to that situation. And I think grief is so complicated and in death we can view people as very perfect or be very angry with him. And I think after that looked at kill Monger in a different way because she twittergree took his advice, but also looked at to Challah in a different way. And so I was happy that they brought him back into the movie because I think in the first Black Panther he played like Devil's advocate a lot, but also I wouldn't want to say made very good points, but there was like an aggression to him, and what's the best word to say, a drive that I think was presentative of the type of like leader. Sure he wanted to be in that moment, and so I think that's why she connected with him in that moment. I think her going to the ancestral plane and seeing him kind of told her I have so many ways I can react right now. There are so many ways I can be a leader. I obviously look up to my mother, I obviously look up to my brother. I have people around me, but this is someone who I've always viewed as an enemy who's providing me with a different perspective. So what, I don't think he was necessarily right or wrong. I think he was just there to show Sherry a different version of reality than what she had looked at for so long pre the grief of losing her mom and losing her brother. Yeah, I was shocked, but I also was like, that kind of makes sense because like, in a way, kill Monger was so relentless and like to be honest sher, he is a relentless girl. Like she literally was like I'm going to crack the code on this like purple heart shape er like I'm doing it. I'm literally not losing any sleep over it. I will make sure that I'm able to like save whoever I need to save. And so it's like, to at least's point, that drive, that ambition, like all of those things like exists within her, and so it's not surprising that like the person that appeared to her is somebody who's sort of like that same reflection, just like in a different package and different foil on a different mission. And so I think like it did allow her to sort of confront the parts of her that she probably kind of hid from her family a little bit, just because like her mom to Chala, to Chocola, they were all very like a little more even keeled and like you know, diplomatic noble like all of those things, and like I feel like she probably respected it, and in certain situations that's what she would choose. But at the same time, like you can't deny that, like there's a drive in there and there's like that he eat that like radiates from her, that like I think that was exactly the right choice for her to see in the ancestral plane. And it's not to say that nobody else is gonna pop up later, but like, I think it's her first encounter. I was like, good, because I also was like, who knows who you're supposed to see there? Because it's like there are other family members we don't really know, so it's like, I don't know, it could have been Sterling Kay Brown, like we don't know well. Team As you know, I'm from the Bay Area, so I was shocked to see kill Monger because the Bay Area girl in me said that he was still alive, So to see him in the ancestral plane meant that he's not and that's not what we wanted at all. We want him alive. So okay, so he's he's in the ancestral plane. I also want to say what I enjoy it about kill Monger's conversation with Shari is that I feel like he was the second person to tell her that you can no longer really navigate as a child and you need to adjust your eyes from childhood to adulthood. The first person who I noticed that this to her was Umbaku because he said something along the lines of like, I can't even I can't pretend like you're a child anymore. You've experienced too much loss, And I feel like kill monger the same way you you think that I'm evil, You're so mad that I'm here. Add some nuance to your perspective, add some gray to your black and white, because being a child is not going to save you anymore. And I feel like a lot of her continued aggression towards him in that scene was because it's so hard when someone tells you you don't have a choice to grow up. You must, you have to. And that scene just made me think about wow, like how long do black kids get to be kids before they experienced so much trauma that they literally have to adjust their eyes to be adults. Very good point. More from our conversation after the break, So to your earlier point, free to the three words that you chose a part of the tension that I found very difficult. And I was wondering going into this movie, like, Okay, what is going to be the storyline? Like I know, well, I would imagine that I hope we get a cut at some point, like of what was supposed to be the storyline before we lost Shadwick and then how they had to rewrite what felt difficult to me. It was these like two communities of color, like having to have this tension that was created by white people, right, so you know, the FBI or whatever this government entity was that when in you know, had this initial accounts or with the people of teal Okan and then the people of Telecom thinking it was the wall Condon's right, and so this feud is like created when it really had nothing to do with either of them, like beefing with one another. And so what were your thoughts around like this introduction of the tall Okan people and this is how we now meet them because we are going to war with the Wakondon going back to being from the Bay Area once again. If kill Monger was alive, I feel like kill Monger and Nymore would have really just roughed him up. And I think we all know what I'm talking about. I'm interested to see at this point we've had two movies talking about a certain demographic of people causing problems, but we've never fought them on camera. Now, the Little Black Panther me because my grandma was a black panther, little black panther. Me is thinking, is Marvel ever really gonna let us throw hands with white people on the screen. I also was thinking about, Okay, what will the next movie bring, given that we've seen internal conflict with the Wakonda, now conflict between them and like an indigenous nation, and the big like elephant in the room is that it's the white people causing a lot of these problems. And so at the end of the movie we see Kingdom or talk about how when either they attack like the U. S. France, whatever, or if they come for them, because now you know, we saw on the opening scene they've detected vibranium in the ocean, that there will be no choice but Wakonda to be on their side because of all the events in the movie. And so I was thinking about that because it was interesting that he said that in the middle of the movie, or like when we were first introduced with him, he was like, my goal is to get you guys on our side, because we're the oppressed people and we're stronger together. But towards the end he kind of had a malicious tone to what he said, and so I don't know, I was just constantly thinking about how Yes, it was initially very smart and it would have been great if they would have joined forces, but it seemed like I forgot the name of the kingdom. I keep forgetting it with the tall Okn Kingdom or was very interested in retaliating, kind of taking over and like having power instead of Sure, I feel like it's more about having peace in unity, and so I'm excited for the next movie to see that tension kind of play out, knowing that they now have an alliance, but their alliance is I guess being approached from different perspectives, yet they have a common enemy, and so how that will all play out. Yeah, I think that's gonna be probably very interesting in Black Panther three, if we get it. I hope we'll get it. But I think something that I'm kind of looking forward to is the series finally addressing like the real enemy or the people who want the Wakondan resources or in want indigenous resources, and that's what it's always been, but I think they're kind of teasing that out little by little, and so I think we got kind of a more profound take on that in this movie. Yeah, and shout out to like just the brilliance of Ryan Coogler, because I feel like he is one of the only ones who really could have done this with justice. I don't know that we are going to ever see that though in a Disney owned Marvel movie. I don't know. I don't know how far you know, he's gonna be allowed to kind of push the needle there. So you know, I know we are around an out of time, so I definitely want to make sure that we do spend some time thinking about the ending of the movie, because that is when, I mean, I was losing it all throughout. But once that baby showed up on screen and we find out that in something in my mind, I feel like this is like the Louisiana, you know, kind of like always keep your third eye open. Something in my mind early on said I bet Nicki ahead of baby, like I bet that that is a part of why she was away. And so we learned that, you know, she was expecting, and that the Black Panther knew about it before he passed, and then you know they had been in conversation with the child to kind of prepare him for his father's death. So how did you feel about the reveal of a new Prince to Challow. I was obsessed with that and like similar to you. It was like I think what like keyed me in was like girl, you didn't go back for the funeral, Like I get it, but like and then like thinking about like the timeline of that, like man if she showed up at that at the funeral pregnant, like yeah, so I was like, you know what, great And then when it was revealed and like truly solidified to I was just like this makes me so happy, like because it was also like this this parting gift almost because it's like now Sherry once again has family, like in the very real sense that she was missing it and like now in a way like yeah, she's an aunt, but it gets to also be like this like mentor and like in part all the wisdom like her brother gave her her dad, her mom and like they're somewhere for that to go, and he's so cute, Like he's so cute, and it was just like such a sweet moment and especially like having followed the ritual of her like finally like releasing the grief and like burning the clothes. I think it was just like a very poetic way to like receive that. It was like almost as if like now she's finally ready for like a new beginning, and the new beginning literally was like I'm right here, and so yeah, I thought that was beautiful. This whole movie was just like really really poetic to me. So we've already kind of touched a little bit on predictions for what we might see in a Black Panther three or as we continue with the wa kinda universe. What are you thinking that we might see in a future film or in future films are hoping that we might see. I don't know if iiness really trust them to like go completely at colonization. I feel like they're gonna like do the thing where they like jumping out it's like everybody against like the aliens or whatever. They're gonna take it to space. They're gonna take it to the nano or like quantum realm or something. Just because I don't know if people are like truly ready to see that, I'm like, maybe they will be by the time it's like ready, but I don't know. I don't have a lot of faith in that, but I do think that there will be some type of seeing what that alliance looks like between Taalo Khan and Wakanda. I'm hoping that we actually do get to see a little Prince to Challa grow up like this particular child himself grow up in the Marvel universe, because I just think the Dead Again, like you said, is an awesome kind of parting gift in for the people who were like worried dead like we would not have the Black Panther character again because of what that character meant for a black kid is right seeing them held as superheroes, I do think it gives us like a new start, so that in addition to Shooty right, so it to me kind of ensures like the longevity of the character, which I think is really cool. I'm hoping that we will see that little guy grow up in the in the Marble universe. I can't see a movie for Black Panther that doesn't involve scoring up with Colonizer, so I don't think I'm going to get one. I also think Ryan Coogler has done a phenomenal job on both of these films, and it might be time for him to rightfully so get the rest and and space that he deserves after all of this hard work he's done and all of the grieving that he and the entire cast are still going through. Because when you watch every press tour, people keep asking them about how did you find out about Chadwick and what was your reaction? And if you have to do ten interviews a day over the course of two weeks. I mean, it's just constantly reprocessing that grief. I would be as a fan of this franchise. I would understand if I didn't get another movie for fifteen years. I would understand. With it being said, there are other characters that I'm very excited about. So I did learn that Proximity Media, which is Ryan Coogler and his wife's din Z's production company, there in development for a series around the woman that Elice was talking about earlier rear Williams, a k A. Iron Heart. I had no idea until I look this up that that that suit that she's in, she's She's truly an m c U. I'm new. I'm just learned about the m c U. So I'm so excited about that, and I feel like this film introducing me to her and her character is enough, which is why again I can go X amount of years without another movie. Give me all the iron Heart you got because, like Alice said, she's a star, She's a star. I can't wait to watch her on television or the big screen again. I want a second seeing iron Heart, Slash Ruby Williams and other films, whether it's the next Black Panther, and also having her own series. That's exciting for me. I think what's also exciting is seeing how in future like Black Panther films or whatever comic books that come out TV shows, how they incorporate other African countries. They kind of allude to it in like the scenes like We're gonna go here. I think they were in like Molly for one of the scenes, but we never really get to see like their leaders and how they interact with think about Wakanda, and so that's really exciting for me. I think I hope that in the next movie if they address like more world conflicts, are global conflicts that we get to see just like another perspective of like the African diaspora. So I think that'll be exciting. I love that. I love that idea too. Well. We will be staying tune for all of the genius that continues to come from Ryan Coogler's camp. Again, another beautiful job from Ruth Carter and Hannah Beacher. I believe the set designer and the constume designer, I mean just beautiful worlds that they create and the people look beautiful on screen. So just kudos to all of them for just another outstanding job with Black Panther too. All right, y'ah, well, thank you all for joining me and sharing your thoughts. Y'all wait in make sure you let us know how you felt about Black Panther to what were your thoughts with staying with you? I mean, we will be joining the conversation online. I'm so glad the team was able to join me to chat about what kind of forever. We love to hear your thoughts about the film as well. Join the conversation online by using the hashtag tv g and session and weighing in. And don't forget to chext two of your girls to tell them to check out the episode right now. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet design just for black women. You can join us at Community that Therapy for Black Girls dot com. This episode was produced by Freda Lucas and Alice Ellis and editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank you all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care