The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
Strap up your Mary Janes and stuff your Telfars, we're headed to Fashion Month! Joining me this week are two trailblazing Black women in fashion, Sherri McMullen of McMullen Boutique and Telsha Anderson of t.a. During our conversation we chatted about how they she care for their mental health as business owners, championing other Black people in the fashion industry, and the importance of mentorship.
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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Strap up your Mary Jane's and stuff your tail forest. Today I'm in conversation talking with two trailblazing black women in fashion. When Sherry McMullan moved to Oakland twenty two years ago, the former buyer at Neiman Marcus was drawn to the community fostered by the area's local businesses, with fifteen years of experience under her belt and a desire to support designers of color and bring high fashion to the City. She founded the eponymous McMullan boutique in two thousand and seven. The all inclusive concept shop for luxury fair featuring emerging and established designers from around the world, has introduced the work of Christopher John Rogers, Peter Doe, and Sergio Hudson to the town for the past fifteen years. In this week's special episode Fitting for Fashion, we speak to the master of brand discovery, Sherry McMullen, about her fashion entrepreneurship journey. Our conversation explores how she cares for her mental health as a business owner and champions black people in the fashion industry. But it doesn't stop there. Across the country, in New York City's Meatpacking District, there's a young woman following in her footsteps, Telsha Anderson. Telsha opened her boutique and concept shop t A amid the pandemic with a non traditional fashion background. Since t A's founding, the shop has become known for its commitment to emerging designers and buzzing indie labels. Stay tuned for more on our chat with Telsha and now Here's Sherry. I'm very excited to have this conversation with you. Sherry, So, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. So for someone who has never visited McMullan bouty, can you paint a visual for us? What what can we expect to see in the store? I've heard that it's gorgeous and lots of beautiful different shades of brown mannequin, So can you paint a picture for us? Sure? When you walk into the store, you immediately see a pink neon sign, which is my signature in cursive, and you see that in the front of a pink large wall. There are shades of pink tones and moth tones and sort of a mustard color carpet, sort of the seven Ish field. They're vintage chandeliers. That's something that people really are drawn to. Above our accessories wall or pictures of my family from Oklahoma, we have large blown up pictures of my mother and my g and mother and aunts, the women who have influenced me in fashion in life. Generally, you'll see velvet curtains and paining, beautiful lighting within the dressing rooms. It is a really very inviting store, and of course the fashion is spectacular and we have brands from all over the world. But that's what you immediately see and feel when you walk into the space. Mm hmmm. It sounds like a beautiful shopping experience. Yes, it is definitely say it is worth visiting because sometimes when you see something online, it's completely different than when you actually physically see it and experience it in person. Mm hmmm, I've been, I've been. So you spent fifteen years as a buyer before opening your storefront. Can you talk a little bit about how that experience leads you to opening your boutique? Sure. I studied business in school. I studied accounting specifically, and really it was great at no burs and really understood the accounting side of it. And when I graduated from school, I moved to Texas and I was really trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Twenty one or twenty two, and I was working in this industry that I wasn't really enjoying, and I found myself still wanting to do something in fashion, just not understanding how I could get into the space and what that looked like. Because I wasn't a designer, I didn't necessarily want to work in a store, but I was very much interested in the behind the scenes and figuring out how product got into the stores. I just didn't know what that job title was. And I was working my full time job in accounting and then doing on the weekends and after hours. I was working in the retail stores at a few different boutiques and larger retailers. And then I discovered that there was a program called the Executive Development Program at Nemon Marcus, and they essentially taught you how to be a buyer. And I joined the program. I applied for it, I got in, I left my accounting job, and the rest is history. I continue to work in this space. I learned so much just working at large corporations, and you know, I was figuring out, sort of do I want to live in Texas? Do I want to move and try something different? But I still wanted to stay in this space. So I was deciding if I was going to go to California or New York. And I ended up in California and ended up with another corporation, Williams Sonoma, and I was chosen to be a buyer, a textile buyer for the company, and I ended up moving to San Francisco and falling in love with California, and here I am today, sort of twenty two years later, still in California. But when I was with that company, I started writing my business plan for McMullen because I was in this space and thinking, is this really what I want to do? Continue to work for companies and helping them build their companies. I had the fastest growing business. I was doing very well at my company. I was moving, traveling around the world, and I learned so much. But I knew in my heart that I wanted to do something for myself and create something completely different than what I was seeing and experiencing in the corporate world. So you opened the boutique in two thousand and seven, can you say a little bit about what the landscape look like for black women in fashion at that time? Black women are fashionable icons generally, So if you think about Diana Ross and Diane Carrol and so many icons sort of looking at you know, what they were doing, what they were buying back in the twenties, the forties and fifties, sixties. It keeps going on and on. When I opened in two thousand seven, if you think about the number of designers that were black women, there were very few that you could actually get to. There was no social media at that time, there was no e commerce, So the discovering black designers was a little bit challenging during that time because we were really heavily relying on showrooms when you'd go to New York or go to l A or whatever markets you were attending, really relied on those showrooms too to show you the new brands. And Tracy Reese was the first black designer that I had in my store, and she's a woman, and she was at the top of her game at that time, and she was selling to huge company. She was dressing First Lady Michelle Obama, she was dressing everyone, and it was just such an honor to have her in thet or and she happened to be my top selling brand, and everyone was wearing her, so it wasn't just black women who were supporting her, was everyone who was buying her clothing. And I found myself wanting to bring more black designers to the forefront because I just had a really hard time finding them. And it became sort of my mission to discover emerging, brand new talent and especially designers of color, and make them accessible to people who wanted to discover those brands. I love bit, yes, And can you say a little bit about the evolution that you've seen now fifteen years later. Well, there's definitely been an evolution over the last fifteen years that I've had the business. I would say the last five years, especially maybe even two or three years. Really we're seeing more black designers on the forefront thanks to organizations like Black and Fashion Council, the fifteen Percent Pledge, even the c f d A who's been really instrumental and putting more black designers in the forefront and making them more accessible to other retailers. For a really long time, we were the one. We were the store to go to to discover those brands, and now you're finding brands at stores from Anthropology all the way to Birg Dwarf's and of course McMullan. You will always find lots of different brands from designers of color and all over the world. So we've definitely seen a shift in definitely more desire and hunger to find those brands. Mm hmmm. Yeah. I've been, you know, kind of stalking the Instagram for the store for sometime now, and so I love seeing like the telephon that you have on displaying in Hanifa. You know, so you really have done an excellent job. I think of showcasing some very new talent. Yes, yes, that's something that I'm most passionate about is the discovery, and that's what we're known for. People come to us because they want to know who's new and who should be wearing. We're, you know, considered a tastemaker in that regard where people are looking for what's new and hot and who should I be wearing? And I'm like, you should wear right right? I love it. I love it. So we talk a lot about the excitement and the power of owning a business, but I don't think we always talk about the stress and the mental health impact that comes with entrepreneurship and owning a business. Can you talk a little bit about what has been most difficult for you, maybe mental health wise or stress wise in terms of running a business well being an entrepreneur. I would say it's not for everyone. You have to really know that they're going to be a lot of sacrifices along the way, and not just financial sacrifices, you know, a lot of personal sacrifices. It's a constant grind really every day, even fifteen years in. I mean, I work every single day. I do take the time off when I need to, because it is really all consuming. You have a business, especially when you are the sole owner and you don't have other partners, and I have had to find balance in whatever balance is, you know, I don't know if the balance really exists, but I've had to find ways to really take time off from the business and allow myself the space and time to take in the day and wake up with setting intentions for the day and what I want to do, and just taking moments for myself and just for my mental well being, waking up full of gratitude for just existing and and being able to wake up in the morning and being able to have a business that I love and enjoy, and going for walks and taking twenty minutes even in fifteen minutes just to meditate and have quiet time before I get my son up or before I get on Instagram, or before I even start breakfast for him. Like it's so important to block off that time for myself because for so long I didn't. I would wake up to work, I would go to sleep to work. And we have to find the balance in some way to make sure that we're taking care of ourselves first and foremost, because it can be all consuming. Yeah yeah, I mean, and you know you talk about like, is balance even real? I don't agree with you, Like I don't know that it is right, because there will be times that work calls more, there will be times that mothering calls for more. So it really is kind of like, Okay, what needs my attention and priority right now? That's right, that's right. Yeah, you know, that's exactly how I feel. And I have a young son who requires, you know, all of my attention and I want to be present for him when he's here. So he goes to school, so when I pick him up and at night, my time is with him. It's not working. My team understands that and respects that if there's emergencies, they have someone else they can contact now, but it did take some time to get to that place. And for me, it's like I have to set boundaries and I have blocks of time on my schedule where people can't reach me, and you know, that's my time, and I have it blocked off for an hour every morning and it says exercise, but that that time could be spent doing anything. It just means that I'm not taking any meetings and you can't schedule any time during that time. Mm hmmm. So you mentioned practicing gratitude. Is that something you do formally, Like, do you keep a gratitude journal or is it more just kind of a you know, talking to yourself or talking out loud kind of thing. You know, I've journaled for years. I don't do it as much, but I do keep great notes of sort of my thoughts in my day. It's all sort of in one personal and business binder that I have it logged by day. But for me, it is really just taking just the mental time. I'm not looking at my phone when I first wake up, I have a beautiful view, so taking that in in the morning and just feeling so grateful for you know, being here, for existing. So for me, those are those moments of practicing gratitude. So what do you think makes pursuing a career in luxury fashion different for Black women? What makes it different? Well, I mean I think just generally for black women, we are the fastest growing group of entrepreneurs, and not necessarily in the fashion space, but in just generally business owners. I think one of our biggest challenges that we face as black women entrepreneurs is that we don't necessarily get the funding that we need to sustain in our businesses and keep going. So black women, we will make sure that our families are taken care of, our communities are taken care of. It is just something in us that we are nurturers and we lift people up. We lift up everyone, and many times we are left out of resources and being able to have these conversations around finance. Like my friends and I now, like we we get together, we talk about money. You know, I think a lot of times, like black women, we shy away from those conversations around investing and ownership and you know, we're talking about a lot of different things. But I think it's really important that we talk about how we can create things for ourselves and have long lasting businesses. It's really important to have that because we have for a long time been left out of that conversation and it's something that we have to really demand. Being a business owner, it has probably been my biggest challenge. You know, there have been a lot of things that I've been up against, but getting funding for the business has been by far from the very beginning. The biggest obstacle and it's really growth. We have a solid business and I make sure that we're good and we're solid, but how do we get to the next level? And I mean like really big growth because many times it's like, how dare you? Black woman? You know want so much more for yourself, especially as a single black person. You know, I'm not married. I have gone to banks and they're like, is someone supporting you? Do you have someone co signing? Do you have a husband, you have a partner? You know? Do you have a father? I mean all of these questions and I'm like, I'm an adult, I'm actually a grown woman, and I have to answer these questions. Still I'm like, no, it's just me. But yeah, it's just we still have so far to go, but we have to keep having these conversations and demanding that we get taken seriously in the business space. More from our conversation at for the break, So you mentioned getting more comfortable talking with your friends and colleagues about money. Is there any financial advice that you received recently that has been incredibly helpful in running your business or sustaining it, you know, and running the business I do have really good mentors and advisors, and you know, I've always been told sort of asked for a lot more than you actually need. Many times we're like, we'll just accept something because it's like, oh, well, someone's giving me something, so I might as well accepted. And now I'm like, am I going to spend this many hours for a very little amount of whether it's money or resources, when I could be spending the same amount of time focusing on organizations or businesses or you know, whatever it is, whether it's bcs or whatever, it is getting a lot more. You know, I don't want to accept just a little bit because someone is offering it. You know, I'd rather wait, we talk about that and sort of not accepting less than your worth. Or if someone is saying, Jerry, can you work with me on styling or doing this, and that I really have to weigh out is this going to be worth my time? And many times I have to say no to things because I cannot give to everyone all the time and then have very little for myself or very little for my family at the end of it. It's like, is this going to get me to the goal at hand? I set real goals for myself and for my business every single year, and I have to think about every decision like, Okay, does this get me to my goal? How much time am I going to put into this that's going to ultimately get me to my goal? So there are those thoughts that I go and most times I'm saying no to things. M hmmm. You know, Jerry, that sounds like a very seasoned business owner. And I'm thinking, you know, to myself, like it feels like it takes a while to get to that place in business. What kinds of things do you feel like really helped you get to that place where you were able to set those kinds of boundaries. You know, it takes a while to get there. For me, I was just figuring out in the beginning, I didn't have a brand, we didn't have social media. We're getting very little pressed in the beginning because we're also sort of away from New York where all the editors and magazines and publications were, so I felt like I had to work a little bit harder to just get our name out there. So I was saying yes, just so many different things, and then you get to a place where you're like, Okay, I'm recognized I have a brand that is established, and I'm able to pick and choose what I want to participate in fifteen years in with my company, and my calendar is always busy. But Eve and I was just thinking right before I got on this call, I said, do I have a window on Friday? Because I'm going to go and get a massage. I'm going to get a massage and I'm going to block off my day. I have a couple of things in the morning at my son's school, and then the rest of the day I'm blocking off. And so I think you just get to that place where you just say it's going to get handled. Someone else can manage it. I don't have to do everything. That's why I have a team now, and I can say no to things and say yes to things that are really going to move the company forward or things that I'm most passionate about. Those are the things that I want to do. It just takes time to that place, right right, So, after your thirty plus year it feels like career in the fashion industry, what are some things that you still love? What still brings you joy about being in this industry? Oh gosh, I love working with designers. I love discovering new brands, having conversations with the artists behind the company and the brands, getting to know them, and many times like helping launch their careers and their brands by giving them a platform to showcase their product and watching those brands grow. I love working with our clients, hearing their stories and how good they felt wearing McMullen, whether it's them having a panel conversation, or they're on stage or their promotion and they want to refresh, or they bought something to where to an interview when they got that job, or our customers who daughters or sons are getting married and they're looking for the perfect dress for the wedding occasion. I mean, there's so many stories that we have. You have a client who's with me from the very beginning, our first person who purchased from us, she's still a client today, and she bought this Tracy Reese beat at Capelet for an event that she had and she yeah, always talks about that and how good she felt in it, and she still owns that piece to this day. So those are really special things and it's really why I continue to do what I do, helping discover brands, develop them, mentor them, investing in them in a real way, and then our customers making sure that they're taken care of. And I love when young women and men are interested in working for McMullin. And many times they followed us for a long time and they love what we're doing and what we stand for and they want to be a part of it. And when they're like excited to share with me a designer that they've discovered on their own, and I love those moments and I feel like we're doing something right if we are training that next generation to do the same things that are making them happy and the discovery mm hmmm. So for this episode, we're also speaking with Tilsha Anderson and she definitely named you as an inspiration, so it feels like it is very much a part of your ethos to to really be mentoring and opening the door for the next generation of people who are owning boutiques and things like that. Yes, I love her and we met for the first time in person. I think it was last year a party after the CFDA Awards, and I just hugged her and held her face and really it was really special. I love what she's doing and what she's creating for herself. Yeah, she's doing an amazing job. So what's something on your vision board for your career that you have not done yet. Well, we are focused on growth in both the physical space and the e commerce space, So right now I'm very much focused on that and raising money for that part of the business. We are opening a distribution center which is really exciting and it hasn't even been announced yet, but we are opening a ten thousand square feet distribution center in West Oakland, and we'll be able to hire more people, which is really exciting and higher within the community. And then really continue to grow that part of the business that exploded in the last three years and be able to get our product out faster to customers and so forth. And then we're doing these pop ups in locations. So I'm just really focused on that and growing and expanding our brand in that way through experiences as well as product offering. I mean, that's something that we'll always do, is continue to shine the light on new designers, black designers, emerging brands, female designers. Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about and you've mentioned this before, you know, New York I think typically a scene as the place where you are when you're growing fashion brands. But you have it sounds like been very committed to staying in California and in Oakland specifically. Can you talk a little bit about that decision. Sure, I mean I moved two years ago to California and I was living in San Francisco, and I found myself being drawn to Oakland and the warm climate. It was definitely warmer here, but also just the people. There was this strong sense of community here. I found that the small businesses have been around for a long time, people were supporting them. It just felt right for me to be in a city that at the time when I moved, there were so many more black people who lived here, and it just felt like a great community that I wanted to raise my family at a certain point in time. I didn't have children at that time, and my friends were here. Beautiful lake, beautiful buildings, architecture, obviously, so much history here. It just felt right for us to be here. Mm hmmm. So you mentioned that you take pride in kind of introducing others to new up and coming people. So who do you have your eye own right now and what are some black owned fashion brands that we can spend our money on. Christopher John Rogers is a deer and one of my favorite brands. Were actually the first retailer to pick up Christopher's line back in nine, twenty nineteen. But I also love brands like ASHLEYN. Camps. She is a wonderful nitwear designer that we also introduced first to the retail space. And hard Well God Free Jewelry. She has an amazing luxury fine jewelry line. She's based in the Bay Area as well. Black Woman Diotima is a brand. Rachel Scott is the designer, but she is Jamaican and she does she has a lot of hand crocheted pieces from Jamaica that are crocheted by artisans in Kingston and she is very committed to including that in her work. So those are a few. We have a list of amazing designers, but those come to mind first. There's also like no Mia Yara Flynn is a designer we've had for almost a decade now. She's based in New York, but she really focuses on sustainability and just doing like timeless pieces. She is an amazing woman. She's two women in her space and she's doing so much herself still, but she's just an incredible person that I love supporting and working with. Thank you. I hadn't heard of any of these, so I'm very excited to do a little bit more digging into all of these great fines. Yeah, you would love them. So a fun question for you. If you could only go to one fashion week? Which shows? Would you go to New York, London, Milan or Pears? Can I pick something else? Yes, of course, because I've been to all of them. I would select like Is Fashion Week because I have not been yet and I've been dying to go the last couple of years, but because of the pandemic, I haven't been able to go. I'm hoping in October. But the number of like just talented artisans, designers based in the continent generally and they show at Lago's Fashion Week is just incredible. We have three designers from Ghana and from Nigeria, so combined from the store and the most incredible bead work and hand dying, the textiles are just incredible, most exquisite pieces. And if you want sustainable product like that is the most sustainable pieces of garments that you can get. It's slow fashion. You know, it may take you eight months to a year to get a piece, but when you get it, you're like, I'm cherishing this forever. Now I understand why it took so long, because of the amount of love and work that has gone into it. So I would say that's probably where I would go. And after that, Paris my heart. I love Paris. Are there any other international areas that you kind of have your eye on? Copenhagen is I've been to Copenhagen Fashion Week as well, but it's just it's a really, really just cool place. It's a beautiful city. It's a great biking city if you enjoy that. People are just happy, generally, very friendly, very clean, like beautiful architecture and home goods that you can discover. Yeah, so I would say Copenhagen's another one, Okay. And what advice would you like to share for any younger black women who are wanting to enter the business of fashion. I would say, if you're wanting to enter the industry itself, not necessarily being a business owner, but if you want to enter the industry, I would reach out to other black women and men in the space and just set up meetings with them. Just calls and say I just want to pick your brain about how you got into the business and what would you recommend. So you know, for me, I started a really long time ago, so the way I got in was different than probably how many people can get in today. I went through working for companies first before I started my business, and you don't necessarily have to do that, but I would say get some training for sure if you wanting to start your own business, get a little bit of training under your belt, and then really have lots of advisors, have your people that you can go to for really anything that you need. You know, can you connect me with this person? You know, I've been really trying to get this brand in my store. Can you make an introduction like don't be afraid to ask for what you need? And that's something that we also have to talk about as like, let's not be afraid to ask for whatever it is that we need. There's no shame in it, there's like just ask. I love it, And where can we stay connected with you? Sharing you all the incredible work that you're doing well. My website is shop McMullen dot com and our Instagram handles also shot McMullan dot com, and my personal one is Sherry dot McMullen, and you can find more sort of behind the scenes my life as a business owner and mom and all the things that we're doing. And we're in Oakland, so you can discover our space at two to five seven Broadway, Oakland, California, right in the uptown in the heart of Oakland. Thank you. I definitely planned to make a visit the next time I'm in California, so I appreciate you sharing it with this. Thank you. We look forward to having you. Thank you, Thank you for joining us today. Sherry, thank you so much. Dr Joy. I enjoyed it. Now Sherry drops gims in that conversation with the tidbit about when she met t as Telsha, Anderson warmed our hearts. Sherry and our next guest, Telsha aren't only black women boutique owners. They both are committed to protecting their peace of mind as entrepreneurs in an unforgiving industry. When Telsha opened her store in twenty during the height of the pandemic in the country's racial recogning, the world and many storefront owners remained uncertain of their future in part two of this episode, the young business owner shares t as origin story, how she nurtures her mental health as a budding business owner, and saying sweet praises to Sherry and her pioneering boutique. Thank you so much for joining us today. Tellsha oh, thanks for having me. Dr Joy. How are you I'm doing will, How are you good? I'm on my off day, So I relaxing, very glad to hear about off days. Those are always necessary, right, always, always the day of deep condition and relaxation. Hear you. So, before you started working in the industry, what was your perception of the kinds of jobs or opportunities that black people were having in fashion. That's a really good question. I mean, for me, I didn't know a lot of the jobs within fashion for black women and black men even existed. It was this whole myth that they were just really pretty clothes out there. You really didn't know about the behind the scenes aspect. We didn't really know really anyone of any race that was really doing anything within the fashion space unless you wear a model or a designer. Then when I graduated college, actually is when I was first introduced to the possibility of even being a part of the industry and how many different people were part of it as well. When it comes to I faces specifically, I mean Andrey Leon was probably it. In my end, I didn't really even though there was any new thing else that could be out there other than like a corresponding towards some type of editor. Mm hmmmm. So what happened during your senior year kind of close to graduation. It sounds like that exposed you to other opportunities. So there was a ad that went out on fashionista dot com and there was a few companies, specifically s C looking for interns for fashion week. So my second semester, which was around like February of the new year, right before I graduated, I applied and I like took two weeks off from school and I went to work behind the scenes of all these different fashion shows. It was my job to make sure that every model had their nails done before they were on the runway. So I didn't do their nails, but I was in charge of the nail text and then I would a sign a nail tech to a model. And so just being in that field, I was like, oh my god, this is so cool. I can't believe even like this little job is was what someone could even have, but there still weren't a lot of black people within the fashion space. I was working at the time for a white woman, she was working for another white woman, and then she was working for a white man. So there weren't really any tools really given. I just don't think that's something that we're even exposed to as kids outside of the sports or whatever other high profile jobs you could have. Yeah, and so what do you feel like really got you interested in fashion? Like, were you somebody who was just always paying attention to like trends or how did you really get interested in fashion? And definitely as a career. Uh, my grandmother and my mom are like my inspirations for everything, mainly fashion. They both have beautiful closets to this day, and when I was younger, had amazing wardrobes that they just cultivated on their own and took tips and little tricks for style that were passed down to them for generations to generations and then pass them down to me and my sister and my brother, and so I think that's where my first interests peaked. I was younger when both my parents gave me like a coach set this patchwork. Coach said that I wore to school even in the summer, which was ridiculous. So I really just wanted to, i don't know, look good and feel good. And I think for me that was expressed through fashion and through wardrobe, and they encouraged me to do the same and wear what I wanted to wear, how I wanted to wear it, when I wanted to wear it. If I wanted to wear Sunday school shoes to a Monday school class, they were great within If I wanted to wear jeans the church, they were okay with that too. So they just gotta let me be me, and I think that's where my interests peaked. Of course, I'm like from the Arab tumbler, so seeing like different kind of editorials on that platform as well was really encouraging and exciting to see the possibilities just of this what seemed at the time like a make believe world. M M. I really got excited hearing you say that your first it sounds like grown up or maybe fashion bag was coach, because mine was also, And I think they're so interesting, Like there's some brands I feel like, especially for Black women that are like this Hallmark, you know, kind of in your in your closet, and I love that coaches like made. It feels like this resurgence and is doing so well right now. It's so good. I'm so excited. They're rebranding is in my opinion, incredible, and I'm excited to see where they're continued. But you're right there, like these staple brands, and for me it was Michael Core's coach and Louis Vuitton, and those were the brands that I feel like I always saw my mom and my grandma wearing, or just different black women wearing wherever they would take me, and excite to see those brands are still round and steal to some degree cater to us as like a consumer. M m mmm. So what was your first job in fashion post graduation? Post graduation? First job? So, my first job ever after college, I sold part guides to the National Parks Association, I believe. So I continue to intern at random, odd jobs within the fashion space. So I continued to work for BPCM, which was a part of like the sc program that I mentioned earlier. Or I would beat different photographers and try to be their assistance or just random weird things, just trying to find that in and it really didn't even happen for me until I want to say, I became a social media manager at hype Beast, so I was helping them out with social on the hype Kids side, and so I was exposed to kind of streetwear culture through that and then officially fashioned. It's funny, I don't think I had an official fashion job until I opened the store, and so that's when I would say, like, that's when I had my first fashion job. Everything else was either an odd job or very temporary, or it would happen and then out people would go ghost on me and then it would just thistle and fade, or it was fashion adjacent but still not in the fashion world. Right, So that feels like a huge leap to go from. To go from like, Okay, I don't even have any entry level jobs to I don't think I'm gonna open my own boutique. I mean very bold, right, which I think is very cool. But talk to me a little bit about how you guys at that place without having any really of those kind of entry level jobs that you think you might have before you make the lead to a boutique. Yeah, So I will trap back. I did work at some retail stores, still, in my opinion, doesn't count. But for me, I was a retail management minor during my undergraduate with life, and then I went to n y U for grad school under their brand management program and a lot of the kind of classes I took electives whatever people call them now, dove into the fashion space and how we articulate ourselves within that world, and how we communicate through our clothing, and how the fashion world has figured out a way to communicate through us with marketing tools, whether it be social or out of home or newsletters, whatever tools they use. So I had a lot of schooling in it, and then a lot of my jobs working in social media and in pr kind of always being adjacent to that world just continue to encourage me to see what was needed within the market. And hardily enough, I wanted to be a buyer so bad, Which is funny. When I graduated and no one was hiring, especially no one was hiring a black girl that didn't have a lot of intern experience, or it didn't come from this ash and family or have a connection within that world. I think I've just built my business plan. I've talked to different professionals within this space. I had the background education wise, and I had the background from just like I said, being close to it, and then kind of went out and broken out of my own and used the skills that I did have to make up and encourage the skills I didn't. And I would always say I opened the store or t A when I was twenty six, and if I opened it at forty eight, I think I still have the same questions, even having whatever experience needed from then until now. I think being an entrepreneur, while yes I'm in the fashion space, has proven more needs outside of that fashion space then within it, If that makes sense. Yeah, can you say more about it? Yeah, Like a lot of running a business, at least for me personally, has been you know, very business administrative, people facing rapport, building, working with landlord, contracts, negotiations, all of that. So a lot of that. Of course, what I do is glamorous to an extent, but a lot of what I deal on a day to day basis is more kind of people facing emails, administrative than it is fashion. That piece, well, it's what I put forth, and it's the biggest piece is often the smallest like a New York Fashion Week or Parents Fashion Week or a by really only last two weeks and then you still have a whole year to get to get through. And so of course I entered the space with okay, I had these fashion connects that I've learned from or met through past. I'm gonna dive in and use them for the buy and I'm gonna make sure m appointment. But again, that's still two weeks out of my whole year, or I'll even give it a month out of my whole year. And the other is just running and operating a business like I would have to put in the same legwork if I was selling kitchen sinks that I do that I'm selling clothing, it's probably a different marketing approach, but I'm still within this big pool trying to get someone to buy from me. I think that's the fun part. I get to use all my previous skills to build what it is I'm doing now. And the great part is that fashion and just somehow comes very naturally like the buyas is hectic in a two week span is probably my least stressful. Probably get more stressed out when I'm trying to create a job description to hire somebody than it is when I'm picking out a clothing for the season that's going to be featuring the store that following season. So yeah, I was gonna say, it does seem like your previous experiences. Really we're a good set up for the kind of work that you would be doing running this business. Right, So your experience with marketing and brand management, I'm sure coming incredibly handy. Yeah, they do, and I mean that's not something It's funny. When I was doing all those jobs, I didn't really know what I wanted to do, which is what I'm doing now, until halfway through it. So the first half it was just like, oh, let me just do this random thing, let me get a check, I want to live in New York City, And then it kind of grew too Okay, now I know why I'm at n y U, why I'm taking this class. Let me make sure that it aligns with what I want to do. So it's kind of a mid epiphany that I had in the middle of schooling and in the middle of my jobs and working in social and all those same tools, like you said, I get to use and applied to the store. M So, who are some of the black people and black women specifically that you kind of look up to in this space, or any pioneers that really have been pivotal for you. Oh uh, my head is spinning. Sherry McMullin, for sure. She owns a store in Oakland. It is beautiful. They've been open for about fifteen years, and I believe she was a buyer beforehand. And Sharia Murdoch, she founded Liberty Fair. She now works at kid. She's an amazing Black woman within the retail space, fashion space, all of that good stuff. And she's always been extra and be supportive just of me and of other black women looking to find their way and find their footing and what we do. I'm probably missing so many. Carly Kushnie I love as well. She's a designer. I haven't had the chance to beat her officially, but I've been following her in her brand for a while. I'm trying to think other women that I love. There's so many, but I think the sad part is they're not that many. And it's what we're talking about, what we're talking about today, and a lot of those women that I mentioned also are entrepreneurs in their own rights, and so that I think it's what's most inspiring to me as well. They found a way to create their own business and their own voice within the world that always and still continues to champion white women or not black women. So yeah, it's funny you mentioned Sherry because we'll be speaking to her for this episode as well. So I love that named her because I think it would be interesting to you you're insight kind of as a newer entrepreneurs, but also her you know, o G in the game in a lot of ways. Yeah, she's an OG for real. She's great. I'm looking forward to the chance that we have to sit down and chat. But she is amazing. Oh my gosh, I'm missing Bethan as well. I love Bethan. She, for those who don't know, is just an incredible champion for black designers and black faces within the space. She's done so much for all of us in the space. So she definitely is someone I'm like, I know, there's someone I'm forgetting, but she's amazing. I just got an email from herself to email or back, but she's great. Yeah. Nice. So, you know, thinking about the shortage in a lot of ways, because it definitely feels like there is a disproportionate number of Black women kind of in these power positions as compared to the consumers, and like, the black women who are like should be very much into fashion. So I'm curious to hear from you any kind of programs or any suggestions you would have two younger Black women who are maybe interested in kind of following your footsteps, are wanting to get into fashion, because it sounds like you have just figured it out. Yeah, and you know, I think that that is clearly is a very realistic option for some people, but I think it's harder when they're not like more formal pipelines. Can you give us any suggestions about that? Yeah, for sure. One that I just started working with is called Mentoring Matters. It is a UK based program, but a lot of the mentors that they find our U space. So I was a part of the I think the seventh round And what that is, for those who don't know, is it's wonderful woman. She found that Mentoring Matters and she essentially wanted to connect younger women and men to minorities within this space, and so she essentially is kind of pairing a mintee with a mentor every twelve weeks and we're able to work with them on what it is that they are looking to do within this space. It doesn't always have to be fashion forward, but it typically is. I'm working with a wonderful young woman. Her name is Amanda, and she founded eight twelve, which is great stuff for those listening could check it out, and so her businesses center around like fragrance and since, but she's still looking to have a brick and mortar. So that's kind of where we align. But unfortunately, there aren't a lot of formal programs that champion black faces within this space, and I think that's part of the problem. Of course, I think like mentoring matters kind of just started, so they're trying, but there isn't one that's been rooted in what we do for quite a while, and I think that's part of the issue. I hope that does change over time. I use Score, but that's not a place that is minority focused. It's a place that you just go to if you have an idea and can figure it out from there. So, yeah, can you say a little bit more about what's glory is? Is I kind of like online platform? Oh yeah, yeah, okay, So pre pandemic. You were able to if you had a business that you were interested in, connect with a retired professional within that space and they volunteer their time. It's free and you're able to go and work with someone that's done it, someone that's done what you do, and they can look at your business plan, connects you to different people and also kind of critique and change things that they see fit based on what they've done before. It's based in every major city. I used to go on my lunch break. I don't suggest people do that, but I went on my lunch break when I was at my nine to five and I went there and they helped me just build my plan up. I ran it through a series of professionals that were in the retail space, the brick and mortar space, and they kind of called different things that I need to know for when I were too launch. They also are connected to s b A, which is the Small Business Association, and so they can help with funding as well. So you kind of go through the program. Then you go to check out the funding portion of the program, and like I said, you can sign up whatever. It's free and it's really great. They're like a list of people they give you their bios. And the great part about it, if you don't like the person you get connected with at first, you can find someone new. So I went through maybe five people till I found my person. You know that score. Yeah, that sounds like a great opportunity. Thanks for sharing that more from our conversation after the break. So t A opened not only during the pandemic but also shortly after George Floyd was murdered, and I would love to hear from you what that experience was like as a black business owner during that time, that experience, it was tough. I was set to open March and the world shut down, and because I still had made these promises to these brands, and because I have a new business with the brick and mortar space, I needed to sell, So I sold during that space. I mean, it was hard. A lot of people were losing family members, people were sick. It was tough, and so for me, it was about finding the balance between being empathetic and sympathetic to what was going on and still making sure that my business was heard and my business had a voice within that time. And then while that was occurring, like you said, George Floyd was murdered, and so my business always was championing being a black owned business within the meatpacking space. And I think for me, it was just time to kind of say it louder, if that makes sense, and to speak on what we felt was injustice and to speak on what we felt was not right, and to speak on what we would not taller rate as a business and what I don't tolerate from my own personal beliefs and politics whatever as a black woman. And so around that time, Instagram started the hashtag shot black, which was supposed to, from my standpoint, supposed to encourage those who didn't know about black businesses or who wanted to do something during that time, to support us, to support who we were, and to call out again the fact that we were still operating, still owning, and that we were black. It to me felt like a double edged sword, if I'm being honest. It was a lot of pressure. It still is, but it was a lot of pressure then because a lot of people use that hashtag to appease their guilt, specifically white woman used it at their time to feel better about what was going on and to kind of in turn hide from the issues that were happening so for instance, like if I shop here at this store, whether it be Telsha store or any other store that has black owned, or if I order from this restaurant that's black owned, or if I repost this Instagram flyer or this black square, then I'll feel better about how maybe I treated my black neighbor five years ago. Or I can ignore what's happening right on my Instagram feed. I can ignore it, I can pause it, I can mute it. And so, unfortunately, because of the shop Black Hashteck, which yes did help and did grow businesses at a crazy rate. It was I hope, creative with good intention, it somehow can become almost like a blanket, Like it's like blanket that you can just use and hide. So because of that, what I did was to my best ability. If someone were to cover the store and ask me a question about what was happening more why we were upset, or if I were to do an interview and someone would ask what do you want for black creatos within this space, my answer will always be I just wanted to go beyond where we're at now. I'm hoping for consistency. It can almost feel and look like black business as a trend and that was off the backs of George Floyd. And that's also not why we do what we do. You know. We do what we do because we're looking to be a part of this industry or varying industries. And someone that looks like me is murdered by a police officer on my screen like I'm hurting and I'm selling at the same time. And that's what I mean by this double sword. You try to find a balance. And then someone comes in and theysed to like their card, this woman and she was like, um, she goes, you probably saw my name on the like POS system and I'm like, no, why don't really look for that. I kind of just you know, want to sail. And so she was like, well, my name is Karen, but I'm not a Karen. And then you know, we'll laugh and make a joke. What and that's why you're here. Please don't return. We know that joke is a funny, That joke hurts people, and the root and that even term Karen is rooted far beyond I think you can even understand our match. So it becomes that it becomes this just this weird double edged sword, like of course you want the exposure and you want to be seen, and there's not a lot of black ownership, especially from the fashion space. But then there's also this level of ignorance that people just feel very comfortable showing, right. Yeah. You know something else I heard from a lot of business owners was there was this uptick in like sales, right, which then may be delayed shipping or you know, delayed production, and then there's all this like customer service back lash, right, And so it's like, yeah, you want to support black business, but you don't then want to give them the grease of being able to kind of scale in such a short amount of time exactly. And then it's also the grace that we're moving at the pace that we can move because of the resources that are given to us, and wanting to support us, but then not wanting to align with those resources or wanting to show us off on Juneteenth but not wanting to talk to us the month after, Like what is that? So it was a lot, It was a lot. I was always often the only black girl and a lot of the places I worked, and so I'm not that I'm used to the ignorance, but it wasn't as shocking as It wasn't as shocking until I opened the store and it was like so blazant. Like before, you know, people could hide behind the email or hide behind the colleague or whatever the case may be. But when you're like the owner of the store and you're checking someone out and it's just all this, Yeah, I don't even know what to call it. Just it was just insane. So yeah, I don't know, it's crazy. I mean, it's what led me to therapy. So it was a lot. So what are some of the other hurdles you feel like you've experienced opening your shop as a young black woman. That's a good question. I think COVID and opening and operating around the border of George Floyd was my biggest. I think the other ones I face are just the constant I don't want to call it a need, but they're constant. I get ignored a lot, let me just say that. So I have to almost metaphorically scream louder to be heard, whether that be in meetings, whether that be over emails. I oft didn't have to like have my third eye on everything to make sure I'm not being taken advantage of because I'm new within the space or young within this space. It's a lot of self protecting. I had to learn how to do from a business standpoint, and also kind of breaking the barrier down of taking a lot of things personally. And I think that's been my biggest turtle so far. I'm sure I'll have more, but so far, I think that's been the biggest one. Just being taken seriously, being heard and being heard on a consistent level. So like, Okay, you heard me back in March, hear me now, Like I'm still a part of the space. I'm not going to go away because certain things are being shown on Instagram anymore because they figured out agorhythm to hide it. Like I'm still amongst the voices that are in this space, like hearing me roar. So I think that's been one of my biggest hurdles. And also like internal battles again I mentioned like not taking things personally and trying to still operate from a level of integrity even if integrity is not shown towards me. M that feels important. Yeah, and you mentioned therapy kind of entrepreneurship and you know, dealing with everything during the pandemic. As we led you to therapy and I've heard that from other entrepreneurs, right, like people who you know. Even though therapy can be great for lots of people, it does feel like there's something about like opening a business that really kicks up all of this stuff that then leads people to feel like they need to talk with someone. Can you talk a little bit more about how therapy has helped you to be successful with entrepreneurship. I mean it's given me the tools to kind of look inward first, for disclaiming, my mother is a therapist, so I love that for me. And when we opened the store sheet, I mean, it's honest, she's like, Tosha, I think we're gonna think we're gonna have to go outside of me because she's my mama, So of course she's like mama bear will always. But I think just using the tools to look outside myself, trying to see situations from another person's perspective, not feeling like the pressure is only on me, not feeling like I have to perform. And I think fashion is a lot of perform me. And I think one of the good things that came out of the pandemic was I'm not sure even if you remember, but that moment where everyone was talking about their experiences within the fashion space and their experiences from a negative standpoint, like what was happening to them behind closed doors. And so I think for me, a lot of what I was used to prior to was just performing, like being an entrepreneur is great, it's easy, and it's glamorous and all these things, and finally coming to groups with Okay, it's not always the best, and it's okay to share that, and it's okay to tell your story and have a real level of transparency with your audience should you choose to want to do that. And so I think for me it was okay, I am going to a hundred percent show up in this space. I'm going to show up as Telsha Anderson Boone. I'm not going to show up as how you all expect me to show up. So if on Tuesday that means um, glamorous and I haven't been excited, then that's after entrepreneur I am. And then if all when they have you know, something different, or I'm battling with DHL trying to get a pathoge out of customs, then that's how I'm showing up. So I think that's how therapy helped. And I think for me, I went to therapy when I had a really great press run and that was kind of just in everything, and I started to feel very repetitive and how I showed up and in what I was saying. And so when I recognized that, I was like, yeah, this is cool, girl, but like, who are you really that I was to therapy. And I also got married around the same time I opened the store, and that's a whole another level of everything. So I just wanted to show up as myself as a businessperson, as a businesswoman, as a wife, and as a daughter or sister, friend, all those things. So and I'm not just gonna you know, I love my business, but I'm not gonna let it consume me. And it's a small reflection of who I am. It's not the only reflect ship of who I am. In addition to therapy, are there other practices or any mantras or affirmations that you use to kind of support yourself. Yes, I'm a believer, so I am strong in my faith. I try to read daily, I pray a lot, I pray all day long. And my mantra I need the Bible says you have to forgive seventy seven times, seven times a day, So I think that's my biggest thing. For giving someone for stepping on my foot on the train, and for giving someone talking crazy to me in the email. It kind of just all balances. So yeah, I mean, like I said, I pray a lot. I'm a believer in my husband's a believer, members, all members of my family are, so I also lean to them as well for advice or for wisdom when I just don't have it. And I'm still new in my faith. I've been a believer since I was a baby, but obviously adult level is different out I'm new and that and I'm learning and then just being open to learning, being open to what's new. So do you have people who work in the story with you? Has that been an additional challenge like figuring out like how to manage people? Now I have sales associates, and so now I'm transitioning to bring someone on that can help me a bit more directly. It is difficult, I think because I operate from sometimes an overly compassionate level. So it's like, oh, you were three minutes like, oh, it's okay, I understand. So I'm trying to manage that, and I think when you manage people, the idea of like needing to be liked is like for some and for me, oh, I want you to like me. I want them to say they had a good experience with me, because I've had terrible experiences with others. And realizing that's not something that I can control is my new thing. So I am kind, yes, I am direct, yes, and hopefully that will help your experience within the fact of space. I do not have to be someone's best friend in order for them to do a good job at the store. So I'm learning that. Yeah, lots of growing pains and transitions. It sounds like lots it's but we're still here. Indeed, So there's been a lot of like online chatter about black girl luxury. I'm sure you've seen this hashtag and videos and you know, like just lots of conversations, and I'm wondering, what does luxury mean to you and what does it look like or what could it look like for black women to incorporate luxury into their lives, whether that's big or small. I mean, the first thing I think that I've realized, and I do believe other women are realizing from like the hashtag or from the movement, is that luxury doesn't always have to add up to a materialistic good, until luxury isn't always three doctor dollar bag. I think luxury can be as small as giving yourself thirty minutes in a day, giving yourself a facial, taking yourself out to dinner, go into the movies. It could be as small and like low skill as that. And then yes, of course you can also be these beautiful bags. And I think for me, luxury really had just been self care, having telshia time, make sure that the days that I'm off are to myself unless it's something that I genuinely want to be a part of, and that's just how the schedule works out. With the luxury for me also too, which is has been just being like overly transparent with people in my space. So if it's like, hey, I need an hour and I need everyone not to speak, or I'm gonna go take myself out to lunch. That has also proven itself lucky, because the luxury of just being yourself, the luxury and being free, to luxury of being open. But I love the hashtag. I'm glad we're as a collective finally realizing that luxury is for us. I think it's great as well, and I'm excited to see how the hashtag continues and what it means. I bought myself a bottle of rose at the pool the other day, and that was luxury. So I mean, there we go. It just depends, It just depends. I mean everyone's version is different. I think that's what they got noticed with the movement. Everyone has a different idea of what luxury is to that, right, right, Yeah, And I think that that is the important piece, right that we all get to define that for ourselves. Yeah, exactly, like I love it. Like I said, deconditioned day, that's luxury. So, since you are a trusted fashion girl, we wanted to play a little game with you. So I have a couple of fictional TV characters and I would love to hear what designer you would suggest if they were shopping in t A. Oh, okay, are black? They're gonna be black? Okay, my TV skills only go so far. Okay, great, let's play. Okay, what about Jody from Daria? Oh tell far telefore? Okay, we love it. What about Raven Baxter from that? So Raven. I loved her. What designer I'm going to pair with her? Oh my god? Can I? I don't know if she gives me vintage like she gives me the rift, she gives me like high luxury thrifts like yeah, like Raven at post college, like could totally be seen like a fire like Captain from like nineteen whatever, like who knows, but yeah, that's what I gonna do is she's a vintage girl for sure, because she used to wear those jeans, those Jeane jackets with the fur around the rent, the collar, the collar and then the fur around the wrists as well. So yeah, I'm gonna just say vintage. Okay, what about Kim Parker from Militia. Oh I love Kim. Kim always wear a lot of color, So I'm gonna say Christopher John Rodgers being on color. She was being on color. Yeah, and then her as her mom used to match her like that was so cute. Yeah, but one more Tony Child's from Girlfriends faith. She's giving like Dree, she's giving product. She probably have that meal like little set that went viral, like the little mini skirt and you could definitely well yeah that's that. Yeah, that was like great suggestions. So what experience do you hope that people take away from shopping? And TA TA is really about discovery, So I really want someone to come in and discover something new. You can come to the store, I'm like, Okay, I want to buy this autoling her top and then to the right of you could be something from Bosma's or something from bev'sa or Christopher Esper, Like just the idea of discovery. And it also doesn't have to be just closed, like we have books that you can kind of not buy, but you could totally browse, take a photo by yourself. So there's oh, I mean, there's a whole level of discovery. I just want someone to walk in and feel fresh, like you're walking into my brain and my closet or my living room at any giving time. So I hope that's experience you and then you leave with a piece of like, wow, what a great shopping experience. I was able to talk to Telsha where I was able to feel like until she was there and we have this in common and like, wow, they're black girls within this space. That's so cool, Like I can aspire to something like this or something similar moment and like that. That sounds like a great experience. So where can we stay connected to you and the work? Where can we go shopping at t A? What's your website as well as any social media handles? All love it? So our website is www dot shop dash, t A dot com. My Instagram is Telsha Anderson T E L s A J Anderson s O N. And the storagsagram is t dot A dot New York and that's where you can find us. Will be sure to include all of that in this show notes. Thank you so much for joining us today, tells you, I really appreciate it. Thanks thanks for having me talk to Joy. It's not every day you get to hear from two black women in an industry as fast paced and riveting as fashion. The TVG team thinks both Sherry and Tellsha for being pioneers and an inspiration to so many aspiring business owners and fashion eastness. If you're ever in Oakland or New York's be Packing District, make sure to visit McMullan Boutique and t A respectively, and be sure to text two of your girls to tell them to check out this episode right now. If you're looking for a therapist in your area. Check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue this conversation or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet design just for black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. This episode was produced by Freda Lucas and at last Ellis, and editing and sound engineering was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank you all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care