The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
I can’t believe we’ve been building the Therapy for Black Girls podcast for the past five years! Five years of healing conversations, growth, and mental health education. We’ve made it here because of your endless encouragement and support. During our time together, we’ve shared over 250 podcast episodes and celebrated over 26 million downloads. Thank you all so much for listening and amplifying the work that Therapy for Black Girls has done these last five years. We’re looking forward to doing much more!
Joining me today as we continue to celebrate this momentous occasion are our amazing team of podcast producers Cindy Okereke, Ellice Ellis, and Fredia Lucas. In our conversation, we chatted about their individual origin stories and how they each joined the team, what we’re most proud of, what we’re looking forward to, and how we’d like to continue making an impact in the lives of Black women and girls.
Resources
Visit our Amazon Store for all the books mentioned on the podcast.
Get updates about Sisterhood Heals.
Where to Find the Production Team
Cindy Okereke
Ellice Ellis
Fredia Lucas
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Our Production Team
Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard
Producers: Fredia Lucas, Ellice Ellis & Cindy Okereke
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session to seventy three of the Therapy for a Black Girl's Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Your biggest lessons actually come from your failures. You very rarely hear people say like, man, I have this wind, and yes, I learned so much. But actually the bigger lessons come from the failures. And in that failure, I've realized, girl, you need some help, and girl, it's okay to get that help. A little tip that a friend gave me many many years ago, a monk that I didn't work with was look at the tip of your nose with your eyes closed. When you feel your thoughts coming in to recenter, without using a mantra or without being guided, look down at the tip of your nose while your eyes are closed as a way to be focused. Dr Anita Phillips is so amazing. She's a psychologist, but she's also a minister. And I've taken this quote from her and I've used it since prayer is a weapon, therapy is a strategy, and those are for people who possibly are wandering. Should I be a believer and go to therapy? Like absolutely? What should be a place where kids are learning the ads and cs of fort and life. And if we can bring that to our young black girl. The way they go into a healthy black girl using someone biles in the Naomi with soccer is that you know, hey, look she said no, she said her health first, and you can say that too. I think it is like I'm getting chills just even thinking about it. I encourage women, actually every kind of new professional to think of themselves as a free agent. I think sometimes we get too locked in to a single institution and we feel as though we have something to prove in order to get the fair treatment that we deserve to begin with, and so rather on taking on all that work of a system that is sick, I say, always have your performance at a level where you are attractive to lots of different institutions, lots of different organizations, and have a healthy level of distance from your workplace. Understand that it is work. As we began the conversation, we spend a lot of time at work with those people. It provides us money, sometimes it provides us a sense of identity. But you also are valuable and you can be valuable to lots of other places in different industries, different locations. I can't believe we've been building the Therapy for Black Girls podcast for the past five years, five years of healing, conversations of growth, mental health education, and we've made it here because of your less encouragement and support. During our time together, we've shared over two hundred and fifty episodes and celebrate over twenty six million downloads. Thank you all so much for listening and amplifying the work that we do here. We're looking forward to doing much more in the years to come. Joining me today as we continue to celebrate this momentous occasion are our amazing team of podcast producers Cindy okarek, Elise Ellis, and Freda Lucas. In our conversation, we chatted about the individual origin stories of how they each joined the team, what we are most proud of, what we're looking forward to, and how we'd like to continue making an impact in the lives of black women and girls. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session or join us over in the Sister Circle to talk more in depth about the episode. You can join us at community that Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation. So, I guess we can get started by everybody sharing who they are and your role on the team and how long you have been here with Therapy for Black Girls. Do you want to get started? Cindy, all right, I started in April as a producer for Therapy for Black Girls, so I've been here about two years. That math is right, Hi, I'm Elise. I started with Therapy for Black Girls in May one as the assistant producer until I've been here a year and some change and now I'm the producer on the podcast and Freedom It's Your Girl Freedom. I started with Therapy for Black Girls around November twenty one, and I'm also one of the producers on the show, so I'm almost at my one year mark. So Cindy, I know, I mean, I knew you had been here, but I don't think I realized that, um, you hadn't started before the pandemic, because it felt like you hit but clearly you had not. No, honestly, I think I give that realizing like it has not been that long. I know, I give that energy. Yet a lot I've heard is that, um, I just I come in and I very much immersed myself and then next thing you know, you're like, oh, this person has always been here. But yeah, I started like in the pandemic with you, which, honestly, I was like, this is so cool, especially because my primary background in podcasting has mostly been marketing, but like creating for audiences, so it's been really nice to be on the I guess front end of that content creation and not just the promotional side. Mm hmmm. Yeah. I think I was also the thing like, oh wow, I did not have any producers besides my husband this whole time, which is why women joined the team. I don't know how you did. What was I thinking? Y'all have made everything so much better? Happy to do it? Oh yeah, I don't know. I mean I think in a lot of ways similar to like what we do now, just kind of being in tune with the community. But I think, you know, as my like job has changed, I'm finishing up the book and have been doing more speaking, like I haven't been able to kind of have my ear to the street, so to speak, in the same ways, which is why y'all have been so much more valuable right in in terms of just kind of keeping an eye out around the kinds of topics and the kinds of things and kinds of conversations we want to have with the community. And I think, you know, each of you, I think have such a beautiful origin story here at Therapy for Black Girls, And I'm curious to know, like what you knew or thought about Therapy for Black Girls before you actually joined the team. So my cousin sent me the job via d M. She knew I went to get into podcasting. I had done some podcasting in college and worked for a podcast turned video product, and so I was like, I'm gonna apply. But I had followed Therapy for Black Girls for maybe like two years before that. My mom sends me at least twenty d ms every day on Instagram, and so some day back then she had sent me a Therapy for Black Girls post. So I followed it for a while, and one of my therapists had recommended me specific episodes to listen to before, so I had heard the podcast and I was I don't know, I was just like super excited to even apply. But I was always really in awe of just like the community that was built. I really just love seeing like strong digital communities that cater to people, specifically black women. I know, you know, we've had episodes about how being online can be really hard for our community, and so I think that's what excited me the most, like contribute something positive and I don't want to say like a slew of negativity, but there are a lot of podcasts that are a bit like negative and speak down on black women, just a lot of content online, and so to be a part of something that's a little more forward thinking that was exciting for me. Before Therapy for Black Girls, I was working for a predominantly white publication on the podcast, and I remember finishing the specific project and being like, it would be great just to work with black people. And at the time that wish was a bit too broad because I kept getting reached out to to do projects about black pain and trauma, and I was like, Okay, let's make this wish more specific. I would love to work with black people on things that actually making us more empowered and more educated and just allowing us to live even greater lives. And I was a part of a podcasting list Serve, and someone listed that there was an opening a therapy for black girls, and the person who was sharing the recommendation was just raving about you, Dr Joy, and so I said, I think this is it. I think that this is probably going to be an all black team or predominantly black team, and based off of the catalog of episodes if you had done at the time, I was like, Okay, this is not centered around black pain, black trauma, but instead how do we move forward and create new paths for ourselves as black people? And I was like, wish, Granted, yes, I love that, because similarly, for me, it was very much about like what this represents, just because therapy has been so foundational for me and like trying formative, and also the idea that I work in marketing. I've built like a lot of digital communities, and like at some point sometimes you're just like it gets icy out there, and so to see like a space that really centers around like uplifting, like teaching and empowering, and also the fact that the knowledge is coming from experts, like people who both practice, who've studied, who've researched, who are just very educated and knowledgeable about it. Because pop culture in general has latched onto therapy and therapeutic language a lot, and so being able to sort of be part of something that helps balance that and offer tools to people that are tried, tested and then also like vetted, just felt really special for me. And so a friend had recommended I checked this out, but I had also been organically following therapy for black girls just because I'm super interested in like wellness and mental health, and so it was really cool to be on the other side. I don't know that I had heard all of these individual origin stories, so Freedom you really kind of manifested us. It feels like, man, I love that she's spoken up and got very specific about what kind of work she wanted to do. Yeah, And I think, you know, just even in you sharing those stories, I think that they kind of speak to all the individual strengths you all bring to the team. Like I just feel like there are many different lenses and perspectives that we each have, even though we are all black women, right, and so it just feels really interesting and I think that that's like what makes the team so strong. So to date, even though your tenures have not always been that long, what are some things that you are really proud of having accomplished as a part of the team at least I know firsthand just the research and the outreach it took to get certain people. Books can be a lot, but then also like what we did with those conversations and to have them be really strong but also not model or be different than there are other podcasts, appearances, and interviews, I think that's something really proud of, So being able to get really substantial people in the mental health field outside of it, but also being able to do something different with those conversations, have them have that mental health angle, which is something you don't really see at other publications, outlets, podcasts. Things like that go ahead Cindy, Oh yeah. Well, for me, I think it's also a combination of being able to sort of broaden the topics and bring pop culture touchpoints to the conversations around mental health, because I think around the time we started, we were doing a lot of episodes around insecure and how that manifest in your friendships and like mental health and that journey in those conversations that kind of feel like fun and more light, but they're very grounded and something that feels universal for all of us. And then beyond that, it's also being able to bring things like nature therapy and like Tara Therapy, just like these other apps x of black womanhood that aren't often explored, and being able to speak to like all the different ways that black women show up in society and culture and everything. And then also the fact that I feel like a year after I started, we like went on our whole podcast awards run, which was really really cool and exciting just being able to add to the platform and getting a lot more attention and more eyes and being able to service more people within the community because there were like these moments where we were being celebrated. I would say in the almost a year that I've been here. The two episodes that stand out immediately are Black Women in Suicide, particularly the question that we x that was a two guest episode, the question we asked about selfishness and suicide because I do think, speaking from my own perspective, my family isn't in therapy. It's still not something that they are wanting to do. However, and we say this in the show that this is not a substitute, but I know that for a lot of people, they do use it as a substitute because they're not ready. And I think hearing those kinds of questions that maybe people have asked themselves or thought about themselves, and then hearing the response that they really wouldn't have thought of because they're not a trained professional, I think that begins to open the doors to oh when people talk about healing generational trauma. It's one of the ways it is really getting these pieces of language and intense research that these experts have done two come to these understandings that a lot of people don't have the space and energy to arrive at. And so that episode stands out because one of the issue is very taboo I think still in the black community, and I think as well. At least for me, it debunked a lot of the things that I thought that I knew. And I think a lot of the healing that sometimes I notice people aren't able to receive is because they think that they know and they don't realize what they don't know until they hear what is you know, what is more factual? So that episode stands out a lot. And then from a editorial perspective, from a sound perspective, I love our History of Minority Mental Health Month. I love that episode. To me, it felt like that could be on a like A and E or History Channel, and so so I'm very excited about our ability to also tell more historical understandings of the mental health space. Even today, we interviewed a guest and I don't want to say who it is yet because the episode may not be out by the time we talk about it. But they broke down this historical understanding of friendship and how friendship change over years and based off of the influences of mental professionals and therapists and psychologists. And so I think, Cindy, when you talked about pop culture latching onto therapy, I think it's also important to note that therapy can really impact how we live, and so I really do believe we have the capacity and I'm proud of this, that we have the capacity to change how we see people showing up on TV right, how characters behave Because if we can change the normalcy of how people speak to each other, talk to their friends, talk to themselves, because we're educating them on the ways in which they can be healthier and more well rounded people, which is our goal, we can literally change the world. And that feels really powerful to be like, Oh, I'm a part of a show that I'm literally changing people's lives and I can maybe not measuring it, but like you can see it in behaviors, And to me, that is what I continue to be proud of and what I know like that will want me to continue being a part of this incredibile show. I love that. Also, special shout out, just because that episode that you were talking about was something that solidified for me, just like how powerful this team is being able to put together something like that that I think we had like kernels of ideas about doing something like that, but being able to actually execute it. Just that we are only like going to get more powerful and amazing from here, Like the storytelling was magnificent, and so shout out to Frieda for also leading the charge on that. More from our conversation after the break. You know something you said, Freda that I want to hear y'all take on. So, I think this is something I spent a lot of time thinking about, probably a lot in large part because of my training, right you know, so I'm always thinking about like the ethics of like what kinds of things we share, and like how is this going to be received? And to your point, I think, because so many people tune in to our content, it feels like a huge responsibility to me a lot of times, right that. You know, like you said, like it. Of course it's not designed to be a substitute, but I am well aware that this could be like planting a seed for somebody who will then go to therapy, or even if they never decide to go to therapy, they hear something on the podcast that changes something for them. And so I think with that kind of power that you're talking about comes a great responsibility, And so I just love to hear how y'all think about that when we're thinking about like the kinds of topics we're going to talk about, are the kinds of guests that we're going to be in conversation with, Like, does that sense of responsibility play a factor in that for you at all? It absolutely does for me, especially when I had first started, like I wanted to make sure that we were talking to the right people for everything, just because like, there is so much responsibility about this, and I've also seen it from other ends and like the work that I've done, what sort of irresponsible advice or misinformation can do that? Even for me, I was like even extra cautious and wanted to make sure that they had all the credentials and degrees and like talk to them first and make sure that this is the right step, because we really are responsible and being able to have someone asked those questions that Frieda was talking about that like sparked the idea, oh maybe I should look into this and giving them those language tools. For me, I was like, it's really important work, and so I brought that to every guest or topic that we would do. I would say, Dr Joey, you remind me to do that, not specific but in the way that you take it so seriously, And that's one of the things that I appreciate so much about working with you as recently for those listening, Dr Joy has been like, Hey, can y'all give this a second lesson just to make sure that it's approachable and just to make sure that it's clear. And and so I think what's clear about you, Dr Joy? You are not just trying to get on the mic, to be on the mic and to hear your voice being heard. And I think that that really shows in the work that we are able to publish, because it really is grounded in what feels like your true true goal to educate and free a lot of black women from the stresses and the terrors that life tries to throw at us. And so that's something that I've been bringing to just my work in general, just just trying to really think about, Okay, for this person who may be listening in a small town who doesn't have access to the things that I may have access to, is this gonna resonate with them, or is it gonna make sense to them in the same way that maybe someone who's living in a metropolitan city. And and I think it's it really feels like your love for black women shine through that when you ask us to do those additional screenings and run throughs of the episodes, and I just appreciate you for that. I definitely agree with freedom the thoroughness that Dr Joy has like cultivated in the entire brand, from the moment we pitched guests to researching two. When we're editing the episode, I'm always thinking about how can we be like the most thorough and most accurate. And even in one of our episodes with bridget Todd, we talked about like misinformation on the internet, and I never want us to be like the donkey of the day with misformation. So I'm always think about, yes, like how can we serve our audience, But you know, how can we not be out here looking crazy? And so I never want to work for anything or put anything out in the world that's uh the most thorough. And I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and so I know I'm super judgmental of bad content and content that's not well researched, or when they don't really engage the guests in a way that gets the most out of their expertise. I think we do all that because I think everyone on the team is thinking about those things. So I have my own ideas, but I feel like I want to hear from y'all too. What do you think individually makes the team works so well? Like which strings do you feel like your other teammates have? That really, I think leads to such a stellar show. Frieda is so organized and she is like the queen of just like following up and persistent, and I just really appreciate that because sometimes even within myself, like when we have a guest who it's like difficult to book, you know, out not reply for, or you know, I'm just like Okay, I'm I need to regroup and recenter, and I think Freda reminds me like to keep going, and I just really appreciate that. And then, you know, when I first joined the team, I was working with Cindy and learning like her process was really beneficial to me. And I think one of the greatest things about like good managers is them having like good process and the ability to like explain the organization and like the podcast goals and so Cindy's like vision for what Therapy for Black Girls is and what we do that really helped me on board really well. And then of course Dr Joy is our host, and I what I appreciate is I feel like therapy has written off as like boring and the fact that we have the pop culture angle and the fact that Dr Joy you understand that, yes, there's a seriousness and your expertise is there, but also what we think about in like our relationships and our own personal growth and development literally shows up everywhere in the world. Having that perspective, I think really is the glue for the team and it really drives our mission forward. So that's what I appreciate about the scene. And then shout out to Dennison. The editing, the quality control is there, and I appreciate that because, like I said earlier, I don't want us sounding crazy. I don't know how to follow that because like it was so perfectly stated, because like I just feel like at least really brings a lot of like perspective and then like thoroughness, Like I really appreciate like the follow up, the organization, like the way that you like adapt really well to different like scenarios, guests like different things. It's like, Hey, we're gonna like rearrange this entire script, and you're like all right, Bet, and then you're just like in it and you're doing it, and so like I love that like initiative and that activity Freda honestly the organization. I was like, wow, she took the ship from my brain that I just can't do, like the way my brain works. I'm like, and then you literally just made it like so quickly, and I was just like, oh my god, this is it. Like this is what I was like seeing and like me and a Lisa were trying to like make it happen, but like you literally came and just like put that ship together, and I'm just like, wow, I'm still speakless. I was like, okay, and so I just love that. And then like Dr Joy, like you just come so prepared like as a host, like you are when I say that, like you're one of the easiest hosts I've ever worked with in the sense that you understand what we're trying to do. If I'm like, this is sort of the p o V. This is like high level what we want to get out of this. The key takeaways just like quick like hits. Even if we're like all right, this whole conversation, just strike it because we found a new tangent, you like flow with it so well. Because you came prepared initially and I was like, I don't know if they can talk about this, but if we do get there, here's another option. And so I just love that's what you bring to the team. And then the idea that you're just very open to like learning new things, like I know that the horoscope one. You're like, girl, I don't know what a birth chart is? What is this? What is happening? But because I was like, I've seen it, you sort of as this development tool. There are some parallels here. Are you just willing to see like what we can find? And it like brings me joy that we were able to like tap into something that we like that people didn't really think we're like closely associated, but being able to take that chance because you're like, I understand that this is for like our audience, and like I am seeing the kernels of this. I might not be able to put it together, but I do trust. It's the trust you very much trust your team, and I think that is something that's like really really beautiful. All Right, So I'm gonna start with Dennison. First of all, for every team that does not have an in house audio engineering producer, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry for you. Dennison brings to life all of our ideas musically, audio, editing wise, and his level of expertise and excellence and how this show must sound on a weekly basis. Cindy and Lise and I are always like, how did she do it? How did she do it? For all these years with Dennison. That's how Dennison sat down with Lisa and I. I think we did a two hour learning session to learn descript, to see how he edits our show and descript. Within the first ten minutes, Alice and I couldn't stop saying Wow, Wow, who who knew all of these features in the program? Dr Joy, You are so as Cindy mentioned, genuinely curious and even though you are in this field, you are true to this, You're not new to this. You still approach it with a new energy of Oh I've never heard of that perspective before, or I'm so glad that you brought that up. So Dr Dorry, you are so incredibly prepared, so wonderfully curious, and it shows. I would not be surprised if you are our guest favorite interview experience because of your curiosity and your preparedness. It makes them shine because they're able to really go in depth to the things that they've been studying or writing about our learning for years, and that curiosity makes them excited to share more. Alice has her ear to the streets. Okay, Alice is our team fly girl. She knows what's going on on the circuit, and not just in her city. We're not just talking about where she lives. She's got hands in New York, she got hands in l A. She got West Coast, the South, it's all over. It is fascinating to be able to be working with someone who is so in touch all over and then also very precise in the work that they do right, because sometimes people will have all of these tentacles all over the place and then they don't know where they left their left shoe. The research that at least does y'all on a weekly basis for these prep documents. She's going into the catacombs. She's like. They had an interview from a couple of years ago. I looked through that a little bit just to see if there was anything interesting. I pulled a little bit that they had a book. I read the first chapter. I said, you read a book, and you also watched interviews, and you put it all together. Her ability to process information and allow it to concisely be relayed to the rest of the team ten out of ten. And then, Cindy, you're the blueprint. The only reason I was able to make our production schedule and the other things was because one, there's never a dearth of ideas. I came on the show and you all had so many ideas. I was like, Okay, cool, I just gotta put this in a calendar, no problem. There are other show where it feels like I don't know what we're gonna do next. Cindy's like, well, I saw this on Twitter and Instagram, and I thought that this would be cool to talk about and all these things. And so just the energy and the intention that you set onto the show for at least and I to succeed continues to play out in our success. Yo, just make my heart so warm more from our conversation after the break to me, is not a surprise why the show is as successful as it is with a team like you all like you know, like I feel like I did okay by myself, but like all of you being on board, it's just like skyrocketed. You know, I think what we have been able to do, and I'm just I feel so grateful that you all are the team because it just feels like there is no limit to where we can go. I echo all of the sentiments around the organization for you to and just the you know, like, I feel like I have really stretched with you on the production team because I'm like, I don't know, fred to, I don't know about that, but again I will trust you know that if you hear it, you know we can make it work, right, and then those turn out to be beautiful episodes. And agree, I don't know how these does all of the things that she does, all the things she's reading and researching, and you know, just like you said, has her hand in so many pots. It just feels like it all really comes together when you see the prep docs because it's like, wow, I wouldn't have even thought to ask about that or didn't even know that they did that. So I think the level of research and detail that you bring to the prep docs in our preparation for the interviews just shows up then. And I agree, that's Indie is the blueprint. Clearly you know took us to that award winning season that we had, and you know, I think it's really you know, solidified, like the things that we were able to do and that we continue to be able to do. And I think the camaraderie that we all have from one another is what shows up in the show, right like that, you know, we are talking as a team, we are relating well to one another as a team, and so then we do that with our guests, and I think that that kind of love also shows up in the episode. So, like you mentioned free to you know, there are no lack of topics, like there are so many things that we want to talk about. What haven't we done yet that y'all are really excited to hopefully see happen either a topic or a guest that you feel like, Okay, this is really what I want to see happen. Black women navigating politics, guests starring Michelle Obama, the mental health tolls of being in the political sphere, in the public eye, in that area of life, and speaking with the former First Lady Michelle Obama on how she navigated it. So I think for me, my dream is both Meg the Stallion and Beyonce, just because I feel like they are you know, two incredibly powerful women with lots of different stories that I don't think we always get to hear, and I understand why they both are a bit reticent to do interviews a lot. But I also think because of the reasons we have talked about the care and the level of preparation we go into interviews with, I think we would give them both incredible interview experiences. And I also think our community would really just love to hear some of the conversations that I know we would have with them. So they both are on my dream wish list. This one's just really hard for me because like a lot of my topics to kind of come in the moment a little bit, or like at three am when I can't sleep and I'm just in a rabbit hole. But Meg was also someone that I thought we should definitely talk to, and then another person because I've been watching a lot of p Valley and like, I just continue to like just think about all of the conversations that we could have around that show. In particular, I'm like, I feel like Cardi would also be a really great guest to sort of like concratise that for people to in a certain way just because like I think both like the way she speaks in her experiences and stuff like that would also just be a really great topic to explore with her. But yeah, I'll just continue to think on it because like up until a little bit ago, like cult was like the thing, so I was like, we did that, So this is I don't know a little more on the serious side. But I don't know. If you guys seen the HBO documentary it's called On the Record, and it follows Drew Dixon who was like a music executive and she was sexually assaulted by Russell Simmons. I would like to have conversations with more women in the industry who went through those things. So like Drew Dixon, Dee Barnes, the music journalists who was physically assaulted by Dr Dre, I think those conversations are really important. And of course, like a lot of women, a lot of women have speaken out about this, but continuing to like give them a plat form and also talk to them about a lot of their decisions, so like leave the entertainment industry after experiencing that, and like what advice would they have to like other young women navigating situations like that are just being a woman in the entertainment industry. I think those will really be important conversation. So inspired by that documentary, that's a good one. I feel like we can make that one happen. We do have our meeting Tuesday. Speaking of Tuesday morning meetings, one of my favorite parts of that meeting now that you are really organizing that for you, because we didn't really have structure before. We're just like, okay, well were wanna talk about it? So again you and you're a brilliant structure. One of my favorite parts of those meetings is where we kind of review feedback that we get from the community. Right, so what reviews, what are you call it? What the girls are saying? And so on. In that note, I would love to hear what feedback have you gotten about the podcast that has really stuck with you that maybe helps you on the tough days? Like what feedback do you really hold close to your heart? I can't remember who, but it's I think it was something along the lines. I saw something about therapy for black girls really makes me feel seen, and like that's just something that like sticks to me just because I think that's just so important because black women often are both like hyper visible but like fully invisible at the same time. So the fact that this space is something that allows people to feel seen is something that is stuck with me, and I wish I could remember who or what tweet I saw, But if that's you, thank you. I enjoy when I am talking with people about therapy and they, without knowing that I work for therapy for Black girls, say that that's how they found their therapists. I really enjoyed that. I also agree just sometimes scrolling through the Twitter and seeing like the retweets of people saying, oh, I found my therapist through there for black girls, that's always great feedback. But then this June, when we did an episode on a sexuality and a romanticism, seeing some of the tweets and then some of the positive Instagram comments about how people in that community felt seen, especially given it was Pride month and sometimes people on the a sexual spectrum are like left out of those conversations, it felt really good to know that, like, we highlighted a part of our community who felt unseen and we did an episode for them. But also that feedback kind of made me like, remember how important like research and thoroughness is because I never, i guess even like really engaged with any type of media books, podcasts about the a sexual experience, and so I kind of came in that super blind and being able to like really put my ear to the streets, eyes to the books, and get the research reaching the prep done to make a good episode where someone felt seen that felt really good and like inspires me to keep going. Yeah, I agree with all of that. I do think that is probably my favorite part of the work, is like just making black women feel seen across the spectrum. And I think that that is something that the team does really well. Is like, there are these general topics that we know we want to talk about, right, so let's talk about healthy relationships, let's talk about friendships, let's talk about whatever. But I also think we strive really hard to like make as many pockets of sisters feel seen. So I know that came up early Cindy, when we were talking about like the gaming conversation, right, so black women in gaming, and like how many pockets of people who feel like, oh, there's never a conversation from me, or there's never a space for me, Like we want to bring all of them in, right, And so how many different people can we make seen in our content? I think it is really something that we strive for that I think a lot of people appreciating to that is the feedback that I appreciate you that we do make so many people feel seen. So we could go on for quite some time, but but I do want to wrap us up with one final question. So what's next? Not necessarily in terms of guests and episode topics because we've already covered that, but like in the five year plan for the Therapy for Black Girls podcasts, what does that look like for each of you? I know we've already started featuring different I guess show formats on the podcast, and so I want to continue doing that. So more things like what we did for Minority Mental Health Month with the narration, the many episodes we did with the advice, just switching up how the show sounds on a week to week basis, and Freeda mentioned this in one of our meetings a few weeks back. I don't want people to know what they're gonna get week to week, like I want them to be genuinely like shocked and excited for it. And then we also have done like what our spaces and I know Amazon is launching a platform called AMP which is like live radio, and so seeing ways in which we can do more experimental things in the audio space and have different conversations. Hopefully once it's safe outside, we can do more like live in person events and producing those, and so seeing ways we can expand audio storytelling from people's podcasts app to other mediums that really excites me. I would have to echo that in person element at least, because the community really has been bigging for that and we want to give it to you, y'all, We really do, but we also are trying to say as safe as possible. But you know, I do think the community wants to come together, right like. I think that is something the podcast is also really cool for, is that, like it gives people a thing to come together around, and so they have really been asking to have some kind of event where they can meet other people who love the podcast. So I think that that's what I'm excited about too. I'm also really at it about the team growing, because again, I just think we have such a superstar squad here already, but I know that we could be only better by having other voices right in, other people who stretch us. So I'm also excited to see like how the team grows to continue making such great content all of that. I honestly, I'm just like a full format like talk show was sort of the first thing that came to my mind just because, like I know, I'm like, you're like, I'm stressed already, but it's this idea that for me at least, there's also often like a lack of like expertise and stuff like in those areas. So having a space that combines those things is always something that's like really important for me. Like I'm big on entertainment, like because learning can be fun, and maybe that's the nerd in me, but it's the idea that therapy for black girls can also bring you that real life experience, be able to like play with format and do all these different things and be able to speak to and reach broader audiences. I'm really excited about programming for like across age demographics and so tapping into a younger audience. I don't want to give anything away because, like a Li said, I don't want y'all know what we're working on until it's ready on our Beyonce stuff, but just know, for the younger folks, we see you, and then also connecting that, right, where are younger folks and are older folks? How can we in ways foster more multigenerational conversations, multigenerational healing. Because it's all good if the twenty five year olds are healing and eradicating generational trauma, but grandma has tripping. That's difficult. So how can we make it all together? Cohesive? And plus one? On the Dr Joy Talk show Therapy for Black Girls Talk show TVG Network. I mean, the sky is the limit. And I think the great thing about what we're building is that I feel like the way that we are building this show is so intentional and making every episode, every month, every quarter incrementally better, that we are really building the structure to have a network. Right, maybe that is something that we achieve in the next five years or in the next ten years. I feel like we're building it with so much intention that the foundation is going to be so strong so that if we do want to pivot into doing something larger than what we're doing now, it's going to be a seamless transition into that. I love those big visions. I love it. I love it so clearly we wouldn't need more team for that because the four of us alone plus Dennis and cannot build all of those different verticals, So stay tuned, y'all. Well, thank you again for all of y'all's work on the show, but also for joining me for this conversation today. I definitely appreciate you all. I'm so glad the team was able to join me to continue our celebration and to discuss the future of our work. Don't forget to text two of your girls and tell them to check out the episode right now so you can help us continue to celebrate. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic or just being community with other sisters, come on over and join us in this sister circle. It's our cozy corner of the internet designed just for black women. You can join us at Community not Therapy for Black Girls dot com. This episode was produced by Freda Lucas and Alice Ellis and editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank you all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,