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M K. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session one ten of the Therapy for Black Girl's podcast. Are you as excited as I am about Queen Sugar returning next week? The trailer for this new season looks incredible and I already know we're going to have so much to talk about, So as we prep for the season premiere, I wanted us to dig a little deeper into one of my favorite characters from the show on FI. But before we get there, let's show some love to our sponsor. Support for today's episode comes from natural Sious. Natural Sious is the world's first vegan high performance hair care line that delivers the results of swelve products and only three. It's designed to reduce time spent on hair care and is proven to save up to eighty percent of time on wash day. Natural Sious was founded by innovator Gwen Jamir, who is the first and only African American woman to hold a patent on a natural hair care product. These products are great specifically for busy women with curly and coily hair also known as forcey hare, and they are all natural. They are sulfate, parabin mineral oil, petroleum, gluten and cruelty free. These have become my go to products, y'all. I love the way they leave my hair to tangled and moisturize, and they have significantly cut down on my wash day process. So if you want to cut down on the amount of products you use and get some time back in your busy schedule, then I definitely recommend you try them. You can find the Naturalisious products and over twelve hundred Sally stores nationwide, or you can buy them online at Sally Beauty dot com. Use our exclusive promo code five five five five five five at checkout to get ten percent off of your purchase. Now let's get back to our episode. So, the new season of Queen Sugar premiers next Wednesday, June twelve, and y'all already know it's one of my favorite shows and one of my favorite characters on the show is on By, who's the matriarch of the Emily. She reminds me of so many women in Louisiana. For today's session, I'm joined by La Shasta Belle to chat all about on By. La Shasta is the founder and CEO of I Choose Me p LC Healing for Me, Living for Me, a counseling and coaching practice. She is licensed as a professional counselor, certified as a life coach and anxiety treatment professional. La Shasta supports individuals and couples to show up in their lives for themselves first. This often includes journeying through anxiety, depression, and communication barriers. La Shasta also supervises interns working towards full licensure as professional counselors. Recently, her passion and excitement for helping others led to her publishing her guided journal, A Space for Me. In this session, La Shasta and I chatted about the role on By plays and her family, the dynamic between on By and her fiance, how would why on buying my seek therapy? And she shared some of her favorite resources. If you hear something while listening that really resonates with you, please be sure to share with us on social media using the hashtag tb G in Session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us to daylish as, Thank you for having me. I'm very excited you were able to join us today. So we have been talking a lot offline about one of our shared favorite shows, which is Queen Sugar. This week we are going to be talking about By, who is I think a lot of fans favorite character. So tell me a little bit about how you see By kind of showing up in her family. So I've been watching, Like you said, it's one of my favorites. I've enjoyed every season. Each season gets better. This particular season, I really just took some time looking at Vias character and the whole autonomy that she was seeking out and in the in the way that she's seeking it, and of course is in her pie business, and so I see her as a very caring, nurturing, yet damaged woman like that She's not healed from the abuse that she experienced in her marriage, her previous marriage, and it shows up in the relationships that she has currently. Okay, so we probably should maybe talk about like the relationships individually and then probably bring it back to center. So, of course one of the central relationships in her life is that of the relationship with her in Hollywood. So what do you kind of see going on in that relationship? In this season, more than any other season, it seems that they are discovering that they're not exactly on the same page with many things, from emotional support to financial support, to how we're they're going to get married, to how they celebrate birthdays. There's been a lot of discord, and most of it seems to be by once again wanting this autonomy. And even on one episode, she even said, like, what I want for my birthday already have and that's my last name. And Hollywood even says, and they're kind of having an argument about her taking his last name, and he's like, you don't want my money, you don't want my support, you don't want this, you don't want that. All I have left to give you is my last name. And so we see that they start to really understand that, yes, they love each other, but they're seeking out different things in the relationship, to the point that Hollywood Mom even kind of pulls him to the side to say, hey, you know, you were really throwing yourself in this relationship, but where are you where? Where are your hopes and your dreams? And she talked about how she couldn't dream basically because she had to do what she had to do as a mom and as a wife, and that he has that opportunity and that the woman he has is not the woman that he's seeing and buy. So I think we need to kind of interrogate more about this because I feel like by is a lot of us right, Um, you know, like she is involved in a lot. She is, you know, a huge caregiver. I feel like in her family she's always you know, trying to run interference and taking care of everybody's issues, and so, you know, she is kind of that stereotypical strong black woman, right like, I don't need anybody. I can take care of this myself. And so what might this look like in counseling, Like how might you help her to be able to recognize some of what's going on with her well, I think first, going back to what you said about all the various roles, I would first kind of talk with her about each role and how she identifies and what she feels her purposes in each role, because she does tend to kind of jump in and problem solve and everyone's problem, yet some of her own problems go on addressing in her relationship with Hollywood. So in counseling, we would start there about the various roles, and then her deciding what she wants to say no to and setting some boundaries as it relates to her no being knowing her yes being yes. And then once we kind of spend some time there, I would gently kind of move her into the space of recognizing that maybe her lack of healing from past hurts it's interfering with her relationship primarily with Hollywood, but we also see it come up a little bit with Nova, and hoping that she's not too resistant to that process, because right now from season three and what I see with Buy, I'm not sure that if she came into counseling that she would be open to receiving that past hurts were showing up in her life. So a lot of good work to dig in there with her definitely a lot of work. I feel like some of the roles that she take on she feels like she has to, and they've been an obligation for so long that maybe when her nieces and nephews were younger, yes, but as they've grown into a well into adulthood, there's still some spaces what she shows up or maybe necessarily is not. It's not needed for her to be there. But I don't think that she knows how to disengage. Mm hmmm. That's a very good point. And I think you know, I definitely was struck by that whole conversation between her in Hollywood about taking her last name. I would imagine that a lot of women struggle with that right, and that that is often a difficult conversation to have with a partner about what's my name going to be? Am I going to change my name? You have any ideas for other people who may be struggling with that are thinking through, like, Okay, when I get to that stage, I don't necessarily want to change my name, And how might I talk to a partner about that? I think it's most important it's she's sitting with yourself and observing your inner dialogue and your inner thoughts to understand the reasoning behind not wanting to take someone else's last name first and foremost, because with By it seems like she's well, she says it, I don't want to feel like I'm owned by anybody. And I believe that she's speaking directly from her past pains and her abusive marriage, that she felt like she was on and controlled and that she wasn't her own person, and she's connecting taking a last name, Hollywood's last name, to have experiencing that same type of pain and that same type of bondage. So I would say, first and foremost, identify the reasoning for not wanting to take the other person's last name, and then when you when you have that, you can have an informed conversation because if that other person is loving on you to the space of wanting you to have their last name, they will be willing to sit and listen as to the reason you want to keep your own last name. Yeah, and I want to make sure we're clear, you know, like everybody is free to make whatever decision they want, right, But I think either way you choose, you know, it does sound like sitting with yourself about like your reasons why you might want to change your last name or your reasons why you would not want to change your last name. You do need to kind of sit with where is that coming from? Absolutely, and it's something that should be discussed prior as soon as possible, right so that each person knows the other person intention, because it's it really called Hollywood completely off guard to know that she didn't want his last name. Yeah, so this, you know, when we've talked on other episodes about like premarital counseling and like when you're you know, getting serious with someone, these are the kinds of conversations you would want to have right about like name changes and stuff like that before maybe you even get to the engagement phase. Ideally, Yes, that that's the that's the ideal. Now what ends up happening some in some cases is not necessarily that, But it doesn't mean that you still can't have that conversation, right of course. Of course, So you talked a little bit about her relationship with like her nieces and her nephews. What kinds of things do you see going on there that other people might also be struggling with? Well, we saw early on, not necessarily this season, but early on her struggle in with new boundaries as Ralph Angel came more into the picture and wanted to show up as a parent for Blue, that she really struggled with allowing him the space to grow into the father that ultimately she raised him to be. So while she raised him Ralph Angel, she was just unwilling to relinquish some of that control so that he could blossom. And then I think with Charlie, it was more so the dynamics of her being the half sibling and integrating into the family that she was really trying to make sure that Charlie was comfortable and would go through great extents to connect the siblings and to make sure they were all on the same page. And even up season three, when Charlie and Nova was having some tension behind Remy, she was right there in the middle of and saying, what's wrong, Tell me what's wrong, something's not right. I've noticed this. I've noticed that when they could have clearly taken care of it themselves. Also in season three, seeing when Nova decided to share things about the family that By was very much against it, to the point that she told Nova like something is wrong with you and you need to figure it out if you think this is okay. So actually having her question her character, yeah, I think you raised some great points around that. And I hadn't even thought about how early on, you know, because she initially had custody of Blue right, so while Ralph Angel was still on probation and things, she was the one who was responsible for him, And so I had not even thought about how much tension there was when he wanted to step into more of a full time parenting role and how she had difficulty really letting go of that relationship. Yes she did, and I mean she journeyed through it well are well enough because by the time we got to season three, she was advocating on his behalf when she went to to see the other grandmother about the custody, So she was able to navigate the waters as it lights to that and I and we see that oftentimes that as as a strong black woman, when something that's put to us multiple times in different ways, we start to embrace it. And I think that Ralph Angel was very adamant about saying you know, and setting boundaries with with by and saying, hey, this is what I need from you, this is what I need in this space, and he was very persistent with it, and then she was able to respect those boundaries right right. And it does feel like there is like some weird tension between her and Nova and maybe and I feel like I've seen that more this season, and that could have been kind of contributed to because like she was hiding that secret about remy right, and so she didn't want to be honest about that, which maybe led to some tension. Do you see other things that maybe have kind of led to the tension between her and Nova? Well, I mean I see that tension, as you said, but also maybe considering the fact that her the loop us having lupus, that Nova was the only one that knew mmmmm. And so now the roles kind of change a little bit because one, she's getting help from Nova and she needs to help, and so it becomes a level of her depending on Nova for help, but also Whereby is usually the keeper of the secrets for everyone else, now she has to trust Novah to keep her sleeper good point. So I think that that's something else that we should probably talk about, because you know, like I know, even in my own family, like my mom and my aunts will like not tell me about medical stuff that's going on. And I don't know, you know, if there's necessarily like a black culture kind of thing, but it does feel like there is a vine of you know, like older generations not wanting to tell people what's going on with their medical health. You talk more about that or anything, you know, any of your thoughts around that. Um, you're right, And I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing either. I've had the same experience. I can remember my grandfather not disclosing certain things to us for for years and would just tell someone whoever took him to the doctor, just to sit in the way an area and he would come out and say he's a one. And so if you are the individual that it is withholding something, knowing that it's not so much as about having your family and your business, but it's about having that support and also considering their feelings in the position that they're in when they do eventually find find out. Because one thing that Ralph Angel said after finding out is that this feels familiar. This feels like like pop And so now he's reliving a trauma in the present based on by choosing not to share with them what she was going through, right, So, I think something that has not been touched on in the previous seasons, and and maybe I've just not remembered, but there's also likely a significant amount of grief that she's experiencing related to her brother, um you know. So now she is basically like the only one in her family besides you know, in that generation, right, besides like nieces and nephews and um you know that kind of thing. And I don't know that they've ever really kind of fully explored like the grief that she probably is still feeling. I don't think that they have either. There there have been moments where she will speak of her brother and speak of missing him or or speak of their journey together over the years, and even one season when um Nova was really struggling with Charlie's mom being around. But I spoke on some pains that her brother may have experienced in those relationships between Charlie's mom and and Nova's mom. But that is something that has to be factored in that she is the last in that generation, which also could possibly make her feel even more responsible for the outcome and the well being of others in the family. Right right, Yeah, And so I think that that leasta my next question about self care, because it does not feel like she has a lot of strategies for taking care of herself, you know, like it feels like her boundaries are everywhere. You know, she's dipping her nose and everybody's business and trying to like run her entire life, not asking for help or even allowing people to help when they, you know, want to help. So what what kinds of things might you be able to help her do if she were a client to develop a self care strategy. Well, at first I would explain to her, you know what self care really means. It's been masked with so many different things to to make it seem like it's more about spending money and vacationing and trips. But just helping her understand that her self care is any decision that she makes about her mental and physical wellness. Um. So that could be something as simple as waking up in the morning. I imagine ain't buy as a as a praying woman, So waking up in the morning, saying a prayer and taking deep breaths and setting the intent for her day. Um or something as simple as walking the property and having a sense of gratitude that that is land that's been in their family for generations and that they're able to pass it on and create a legacy. And then just throughout the day being mindful of the thoughts and the words that she put out there that is coming from a very present place and not a a place of pain, and being able to see things for what they're they present themselves to be. Like when Hollywood offers help, that he's not offering help in in exchange for putting her in bondage, that he's truly offering his help because he wants to support her. Um So, those would be some things because but I probably would be resistant to self care. If I mentioned, you know, going to the spa or taking a girl's trip, she would likely be resistant to that because she's even told Hollywood about not wanting to spend money that's not necessary or shopping and things of those natures. Uh So I would try to keep it home base for her in her self care and helping her to understand that it's simple as making a decision that is going to contribute to her her physical or mental wellness. Yeah, I completely agree with you. I think she would be very resistant to anything that sounds like um Like a lot of people are right like that. They feel like it's selfish or you know, like, Okay, I got so much to do, I don't have time for all of this what seems kind of frivolous, but in actuality, especially given you know her health conditions, it really is important for her to be making sure that she's like keeping her stress down and you know, taking really good care of herself. Absolutely, and and part of that is sitting with her thoughts and feelings and recognizing what they are and possibly where they may have come from before speaking things out of her mouth. I'm thinking of the scene where Hollywood comes in and he's obviously tired. You can see, you know, his shoulders are slump that they're his face is is disgruntled, and she says hey, and he says hey, and and he was like, I'm just gonna go on and call it a night, And rather than saying like, what's wrong? Are you okay, she kind of jumps into did you see that article about that that nova Um wrote? And he says, yes, he saw it, and she goes on to speak her piece about it, and then you see him come into the room and have a seat, and then at that point she says, like, oh, what's wrong. And then he expressed himself and says that I don't, I don't, we don't see this the same, And then he become he opens up to her about the pain that he's experiencing and how it's hard to carry that pain, and he could relate to what Nova was saying about her dad and and the pain. So something I think that we also have not really talked about, or you know, we talked about a little bit offline, um is really it to like all of the traumas that she has experience that like have resulted in the way that she shows up in these different relationships. So likely before we could do any of like this self care work or maybe at the same time, you really would have to kind of dig into helping her to process some of the traumatic experiences from her past. Absolutely, like absolutely, And like I said before, I don't even think that she has the awareness that her central thinking comes from the abusive relationship marriage that she was in, that that's her that's her core of her thinking. It's almost as if every decision that she makes or the comment that she makes comes from that space, especially as it relates to her sense of autonomy. Now, outside of that, I wouldn't be able to say. But when it comes to her wanting to be independent, it's all framed from a place of trauma. So how would you help her to raise that awareness? What would that even look like? Like? You said, First, we would have to go and unpack some of the pain that she has experienced in her marriage, her previous marriage, also in raising her her niece and nephew and their mom being you know, not in the picture, and then their dad passing. Even though it was in their adult life, she still felt like it was undone um. They weren't ready, so to speak. So I would help her first about realizing what what the stakes that she had in her life throughout the time, what was in her control, what was out of her control, being able to in some ways make peace with her past, and knowing that she can't change it and undo it, but she can accept it, and what acceptance would look like for her, and and helping her to understand that she gets to define that that it's her life, so she gets to the side define what acceptance looked like for her, what closure looks like for her, and once we process that, then I think we would experience a shift in mindset where she would realize for herself like, oh, you know my not want in Hollywood to help? You know it? Can it come from when my ex husband anytime he would help me, I would have to reciprocate in a way that I didn't want to reciprocate, or whatever it may be. I think she would be able to make some of those connections herself once closure and healing took place. Very good points, very good points. So how might you help her to um process some of the trauma of the abusive relationships? Like what kinds of things might you do specifically to help her with that? Well? Typically, most oftentimes as a clinician, I don't work much with trauma, but when it comes well I can let me not say that, because we all have some level of trauma, but typically when we're looking back um over time and years of trauma to that depth, in that extent, however, when I am with the client and it comes up, we do some cognitive behavior of one looking at what's rational thinking, what's irrational thinking? If there's over generalizations taking place, being able to refute those Um, if there's some anxiousness related to certain things like taking up a spouse last name or allowing yourself to be celebrated in a space when you think what you've been doing all along, it's good enough, Like for her sixtieth birthday she mentioned going to the restaurant was enough, it's been good for the last sixty years, but then excited to be celebrated, being able to embrace those spaces that the abusive relationship does not determine her work, that she determines her own worth and processing through through that. It. So let's talk a little bit about because you know, now she is like embarking on this whole new journey in her life of entrepreneurship. Great, Um, she's you know, studying her pie business and getting lots of you know activity around that. What are some things that you think might come up as she continues in that journey that might be helpful to talk about in therapy work life balance. As you mentioned before, it doesn't seem like she has much of that, but I see that as she ends up having her own uh space, like she desires that, she's going to want it to be just perfect, and so being able to have that balance also in planning a wedding and enter and and enter into a new chapter of her life in a different way. Although she's been married before, this marriage will definitely show up differently for her in her life in a different way because she's in a different place personally. And then also being able to manage her health and her and her mental wellness. That's definitely gonna come up because, like you said before, if her stress level it is not managed, it's going to impact her health. And if her physical ful health of ampacted, then her business is impacted. So I think those are going to be some things that come up. And then the business side of business, like she loves making pies and being with the people and servicing them and and having the conversations with them, but the actual running of the business, the books, you know, the ordering, those types of things. Being able to discuss how she will source out, because she will have to at some point source out beyond having a helper in the kitchen with the pies. Got it? So? I also, and I'm not sure it may have just been my own suspicion, but I felt like I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop in that deal between her and the guy from the grocery store, like something about him just feels a little shady to me. Um, And I kept wondering, like, is she being taken advantage of in this deal? In the beginning that I got the same vibe, especially when the split was like seventy thirty or sixty forty, it was really strange. Um, But it seems like to me as things progress, and him inviting her over for dinner and meeting his wife, and then him even going so far as to research her her condition after she revealed it to him, and and even him saying like, I want to know what's going on, Um, this is important to me, and then researching and saying this is what I found, this is what I know. It started to seem more genuine. But then I also know she has Charlie in place with lawyers that look over the paperwork. So I'm not sure if another shoe will drop, But I I wholeheartedly get what you're saying, because I had that same feeling at the start of their relationship. Yeah, so I guess we would just have to stay tuned to see if that stays on the up and up right right exactly hopefully, hopefully it will, especially at the end of the season, him saying that the very uh diner that she worked for I think she said eighteen plus years could possibly be her new home. Mm hmmm, Yeah, that definitely did seem exciting. So any other skills, you feel like she will need um to kind of move into the stack space of her life some of the things that she's already showing an inkling of, like how she kind of when she talked to Nova and she said, I realized I never dreamed big enough that I didn't give myself permission. That she's on the surface of some things. And so I think part of it is going to continue to pursue some of the mindset that she's already started to shift in and then opening up to other possibilities and definitely asking for help, putting herself first and her health first. And she's she's doing that in some ways um and then in some ways not. So she won't allow Hollywood to really help, like I said before, and we established that comes from past pain, but creating a balance because he is her partner and it is going to be important to let him in and let him be of support. So I think that that's going to be a pivotal place where she'll have to work or she'll start to see that relationship being impacted more than she realizes. So I think that that would be an interesting thing to talk more about too. Like if you had a client like buy who came in and you know, we're doing so much for everybody else, but had real trouble asking for help or allowing people to help, what kinds of things might you do with them to help them to kind of practice allowing people to help more. I would likely, you know, talk about and and explore compassion and empathy because a lot of times we will extend it but we do not know how to receive it, and knowing what that means, and helping her to identify how it makes her feel to be of help, that that sense of altruism that she's allowed to feel when she's helping, even when maybe they're not asking for her help, um that she's right there Johnny on the spot, and what she if she could imagine, or asking her to imagine what it would feel like for her if the people in her life didn't allow her to help. And so we would really sit with that and explore and then doing some different homework quote unquote exercises where we start with smaller things, asking for health, things that she doesn't mind re relinquish and control of, and then working her way up through some bigger things, and also understanding that getting that help does not mean that she's no longer in control, because she still gets to control the extent of which in which they help and what areas that that she gets the help got it, So really kind of taking some baby steps like Okay, what are the things that you would have the least trouble, kind of letting control, letting go control of, and starting there absolutely because I imagine if I was on my couch something she would will be like, no, that's not gonna happen, and she may not even show back up if we started too aggressive and in the spaces that she's not ready to um to, to let go of. And then I would also talk to her about modeling behavior because she it's really important to her for her nieces to to live their best life, and so I would talk to her about the behavior that she's modeling in her own life and how she feels that it may be impacting Charlie and Nova. So you Bichen something that I think we should maybe talk about a little bit, this whole idea of if you went too hard too soon, she might not show back up to therapy. Can you talk more about what you mean? Then? Well, you have to meet a client where they are, and so part of the process that most of us have established is an intake to just get an idea of where the client is. And so if I were to jump right in and say, well, you need to hire staff and take some days off, then I imagine that by would not come back if I was to maybe suggest to her doing more community outreach, because one of the things that she mentioned in these in three is that she wanted to create a space where other black women could learn and grow and have businesses on their own. So if I approached it from that perspective of networking, which means she's not in the kitchen baking pies as much, but she's working on another part of her business, then she would embrace that and eventually get her to the space of being willing to take some days off and take care of herself and spend time with her her family rather than waiting till high work is done and business is done. And squeezing them in around business. Right, So kind of helping her to get through it, get to it through a back door, which is sometimes what we do. Right Oftentimes we we have to use that that back door or UM. I don't know about you, but it's been very few times where I've had clients come in and say, you know what, this is my junk, this is it, and this is what I know I need to do. I just need support doing it. Um, it's very few times that I have that. And even when I do, when we start getting to okay, well this is what you mentioned, it's like yeah, but the readiness of it of it changes. So I imagine that if I came into therapy that just showing up would have taken a lot out of her, and so I would be very I would be very mindful of that and her perspective of therapy and if it works and if it helps or not, and I would approach it that way. Uh of just taking really small baby steps and validating her the whole way and making sure that what she wanted stayed at the forefront of the therapeutic process while integrating those uh therapeutic strategies without her maybe even realizing that the onset that that's what they were, and then we would get into it. Once she went out and get the network and in the community outreach and coming back and telling me how it made her feel, then we would process Okay, well, while you were doing that, who was in the kitchen taking care of the pies? Like get the pie order backlog? How how did that work out? And then she would see that it's okay to step away from the business and the business will still be okay. Very good points, very good points. So what are some of your favorite resources for Like we've talked about so many different things, right, um, so related to the conversation, what are some of the your favorite resources that you suggest for your client? Is related to some of the struggles that buy is having. So I know that the Boundaries book have been discussed thoroughly and mentioned oftentimes. But I think that understanding when and how to set boundaries and what boundaries are are pivotal. It's the core of who we are and it helps us to establish how to be our best self. So I would definitely say that that would be a resource. The author even has a Boundaries and Dating which is Dr Henry Cloud and then also there are some apps out there that I think are are really amazing that oftentimes I suggest with UH with my clients, And one of them is a lifestyle app, and it basically helps you track your time and helps you to see where you're spending your time and then you can be more mindful. So with Vie we talked about work life balance. She could really she could use that app and end up seeing how much time she's spending at work versus how many times, how much time she's spending at home, how much time she's spending on herself, maybe exercising or during devotion. It starts to track and it gives you a weekly output of what's happening, and even will help you to um to see changes that you made, Like I looked at mine recently and it's like, oh, you spent more time on lunch this week then last week, So it gives you that insight. The name of the epig images lifestyle Okay, it's just called lifestyle app. Yes, And there's a there's a sleep app that goes that's also similar to that that tracks your sleep, which we didn't even get into that, but I imagine that buys not getting regular sleep with her work on so much which impacts her mental and physical health. Also, UH, Calm app c a l M is for meditation. So I mentioned you know, maybe starting buy out with the morning prayer and setting her intent. Well, sometimes it's hard to initiate that on our own and we need some guidance. And so this app provides guided meditation, it provides unguided meditation, it provides music to help with focus and sleep. It's a several components uh that teaches mindfulness, even master classes. Um. So it's one of my favorite go to apps. Um. And then if it was just the overall struggle of being able to feel good about yourself and show up in a good space, then the Virtual Hope Box and it's basically what it says is a hope box of all the great things to remember to help you establish your best self. Um. And then another book, as far as our book resource, Girl Wash Your Face, and it talks about how to you know, live and be the best person and learn how to hustle and not see yourself like everyone else sees you, but see yourself for yourself. Got it? Yeah, I definitely have heard lots of people talking about Girl Wash Your face too, so that may be a good one to check out. Definitely. The other thing joy is that we are we are our best resource if we really take time with ourselves. So just really being present and and recognizing the emotions and feelings that we're experiencing and allowing ourselves to experience them without any guilt, without any shame, without any judgment. That helps us to grow tremendously and it does not take any additional purchases are apps? Right? If we would just sit down and be quiet sometimes, dre that's it? So where can people find you, Lisasta? What is your website address as well as any social media handles you want to share? Okay, so my website is www dot I choose me to the number two day dot org. They can find me on Twitter and Instagram as um. I choose me the number two day. Facebook is La Shasta Bell lpc S and they can always text I choose me to five five five eight eight to stay connected. All right, So all of that information will be included in the show notes, so people can make sure they have access to that even after they listen to the episode. Right, great, I really do appreciate being able to chat and especially when it's about a show that is amazing and it's doing so many great things for us as a culture and as a society, and being able to highlight things and in a way that are subtle but yet broad and and bold. And so I appreciate the time you've allowed me to talk about clean Sugar and Buy and I'm so looking forward to the next season to see how they will develop by his character out even more. Yes me too. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. I'm so grateful of Shafts that was able to share her expertise with us today. To learn more about her and her practice and the resources that she shared, visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. So last Session one ten. If you love this conversation, go ahead and text two of your friends and tell them to listen, and be sure to share your takeaways with us in your i G store race or on Twitter using the hashtag tv G in session. Don't forget to show some support for our sponsor for this episode, natural Sious. Natural Sious is the world's first vegan high performance hair care line that delivers the results of twelve products and only three. You can find the products and over twelve hundred Sally stores nationwide, and you can also get ten percent off your purchase online by going to Sally Beauty dot com and using the promo code five five five five five five at checkout. If you're searching for a therapist in your area, check out our directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue this conversation with other sisters who listen to the podcast, come on over and join us in the Thrive Tribe, which is the Facebook group for our community. You can request to join at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Tribe and be sure to answer the three questions that are asked to gain entry. Be sure to visit our online store at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Shop, where you can find our guided affirmation track, break up journal, and your favorite Therapy for Black Girls t shirts and mugs. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care