Dr. Donna Oriowo, M.Ed, MSW, CST is back for another Insecure debrief this week! She and I chatted about what’s happening with Issa & Lawrence, the meet up between Molly & Issa, Molly finally going back to therapy, and our predictions for the season finale.
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I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session one of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. Clearly the podcast has turned into an insecure breakdown podcast recently, but I can't help it, y'all. They're given us so much good stuff to talk about. So Dr orio Wo is back with us this week to chat about everything we saw in this week's episode as a reminder, Dr Donna Orioo is an author, international speaker, and certified sex and relationship therapists in the Washington, d C. Metro area. The owner of a nod Right, Dr orio Will specializes in working with black women on issues related to colorism and texturism and its impact on mental and sexual health. She is also the author of Cocoa Butter and Hair Grease, a self love journey through hair and skin. This week, she and I chatted about what's happening with Issa and Lawrence, the meet up between Molly and Issa, Molly finally going back to therapy, and our predictions for the season finale next week. This episode does contain spoilers, so if you haven't watched the episode yet, you might want to save it until you have. Here's our conversation. All right, we are back again, sooner than expected. We thought we might have a week off, but clearly the letters they was not playing with us. Go Carrie Washington, right, How is it possible that each week it's better than the last one. I don't know. I feel like they just talk all to each other, and all that black and lovely energy in one room just converges to the most amazing episodes. Yes, yes, so I don't know, I need to kind of go back and read and see what other things. I feel like maybe Carrie had also directed some episodes of Scandal. I'm not sure, but definitely she did a beautiful job with this episode. And if this was her first time, listen, listen if I go back in that research and find out this was her first foray into directing, like Natasha was last week. I mean, clearly they are setting the more high a little. I'm just like, you know, day I'd like to maybe get into that, but like, you know, they don't need to set it so high that I can't achieve. Yeah, we're just gonna start with some of YouTube videos. We go just you know, start right, starting our own bandwidth. So we seen the scene open up. Now, tell me if I was alone in thinking that this was a dream sequence, you are not alone. A bunch of people said they thought it was a dream sequence. I remember sitting there hoping that it was. I was like, please, right, So from the bad they totally like nixed all of our predictions from last week because we all thought this was a closure getting together. We did not think we would see them back together, and they let us know very early on that we were wrong. Yep, I'm just like, well, okay was wrong. Yeah. So I don't even know how long it has been, probably not very long since we last saw Lawrence and Easta together, um, and so now it is basically like they are spending tons of their free time together. But what I liked that I saw like, despite the fact that you know, I am not this team, I am not You're not team Laurence Easa, not really, I'm team Issa. H. But what I really did enjoy saying is that they also had the computer side by side and they were both working that they can it sounds it looked like they finally found this space where they are able to sort of be in space with one another, enjoy each other, joke with each other, love on each other, and at the same time work with each other. And that was that was just a beautiful love sequence. And I didn't know how much I needed it until, like god it Yeah, it felt like a perfect continuation even though we didn't expect it. It felt like a very perfect continuation of last week's episode. Yeah, I mean it made it so I couldn't even be mad. Yeah, I couldn't either. I couldn't have. I was like, oh, okay, okay, I see where y'all are trying to go with this, you know, but they definitely they have clearly really just fallen into this very comfortable space with one another, right. It really does feel like they kind of picked up where they left off, and even more than that, just like they're both able to show up in a way that maybe they had not been able to show up previously. So like, just you know, she's herself, she's the she's the improvements that she's been able to make since they broke up, the same inspiration, the same love to drive, the passion, all of that. Now Lawrence gets to experience it in a completely different way than where they were before, and she also gets to experience him differently because he has drive and purpose and desire in the work that he is doing. Mm hmm. Yeah. So they are in, like we said last week, very different places. So we do see though, kind of towards the end of the scene, this very awkward kind of you know, a call back to you sis, more awkward out moments, this very awkward conversation about like what what's going on? Here, what are we you know? Then she kind of throws condola into the mix, like, Okay, what's up with that? So what were your thoughts about that? I like that she was asking the questions. I think that sometimes we can very easily move into assumptions with somebody because we've been sleeping together or hanging out together, that, oh, it must mean that we are both exclusive with one another, as opposed to having the outright conversation and letting it be awkward and be in that space just so that you know exactly where it is that you stand. Because we can't move, we can't continue to move into a space where we make assumptions about our standing in someone's life and how it is that they are interacting with others based on their interaction with us. Mm hmmm. And I appreciated that they didn't really have an answer right like, it didn't feel like they really came to a resolution about what they were doing, but it did feel good that they at least put it on the table able so that they both know they're thinking about what's happening here, even if we don't have an answer for what to call this right now exactly. And I to that, I mean, how how you gonna label it? He is, right, Francisco tricked. Yeah, So we see that a little later, but I think it also now I'm still not totally sure about what's happening with Condola. I'm not quite giving up on my pregnancy prediction just yet. But we do hear him saying everybody wants to be like, yeah, pregnant, she's gonna come next, because it's like, was that her in the in the preview for the last e who even knows, right, But he does say like I talked to her and we're done. So that does kind of, you know, squash that prediction right now. But I'm not gonna completely let it go just yet. Well, I just I'm just so in a space of love with this honesty. I'm she could be pregnant and she wouldn't be pregnant. That's her pricket is now. But now they've been talking and that makes me feel warm and sort of gooey inside, because you know, like we've been talking consistently about communication and how the communication breakdown between East and Molly has just been you know, how it's just been so like, you know, like almost kind of greasy. But then it's look at this communication that communication sequence does happen, And I'm just you know, just watching this level of growth in EASA and how she communicates with others and still being disappointed about how the communication ends up going with Molly, but being able to appreciate the way it goes everywhere else. M Yeah, clearly it still don't work to do there? Oh, absolutely right. So the next thing we see, thank goodness, we see Molly is back in therapy. So Dr Rhonda has heard a space on her schedule in her gorgeous office, and Molly is back in therapy where she needed to be, where we know she needed to be. And so you hear her talking about, you know, the continuing stress and drama related to Issa, and Dr Ronda really, i think, does a great job of kind of calling her out about the patterns that she's recognizing in Molly's relationships. So she is, you know, these people have all wronged you in your life, But does that mean really that there's no opportunity for reconciliation? So she asked her, do you want to be right or do you want to be in relationship? Let me tell you that question about got on my nerves. Did you feel a little way about that. I definitely felt a way about that. I was like, so what I can't be in a relationship with somebody if if I'm not if I know I'm right, if I have conviction, I don't. The question for me just feels it kind of moves into a manipulative space of this is how other people can approach you to be like, well, do you want to be with me? Or do you want to do this thing? Oh see, I didn't see it that way. I just I found it to be an irksome and bothersome questions. I like her follow up to it. I think that the follow up, that's that's where I was living in that space of Okay, now what like what is your role in all of this? Like can this thing be salvage? That's a really great question m that I was getting to when she said do you want to be right? Or do you want to be in relationship? Because it felt like Molly was really really invested in holding onto like the ways that people have wronged her and even though she may be right like that they were wrong, but is there no opportunity for you to reconcile? And have we really looked at everything related to you, how you might need to look at your piece of what happened. I get that. I think I want to both and sort of person out of either or, because I don't think it needs to be either or. I think that she behaves like it's either or and learning to expand that yes, people can wrong you and you can still manage to have a relationship if you so choose. Yeah, for me, that would work better for me because I would never utter those words in the space of any climbing Yeah, right, right, yeah, And I think, you know, kind of going back to I believe our first conversation about the season opener of season four talking about like the lack of self awareness, and that came became more evident. I think in talking with her therapist right when she tried to, you know, gently nudge her towards the accountability, she was like, no, it was her foote And I would have loved to stay there and just be like, I want to know what I the wrong. I would have said, because I was just like, come on, Ali, come on, plead. Yeah. I definitely would have loved to see a little bit more of the therapy scene. But you know, maybe we'll see some more of that next week, Yeah, because it was after that. It was after that scene, right that we see Issa in the restaurant. Yeah, so I think it's after that that we see Issa at home making the decision about whether she's gonna call, right, Yeah, and was concerned like, oh, if I say this thing, she's gonna say I'm being selfish all over again. So noting that she sort of just let those things go what she needed in that moment, I was like, all right, cool, look at you. I see you. But just also just I'm still upset that she called Molly. So wait, so let's take a moment here, because what do you think motivated her to call. Do you think it was, you know, I missed my friend, I would like for us to get back together. Or do you think it was, Oh, there are all these things I want to talk through related to Lauren, and Molly is the only one I can talk to. So more coming from a selfish please, Honestly, I think it may have been a combination because she is, you know, Molly is her oldest standing friend who also knows a lot of what went on with her and Lawrence the first time around. Right, So there is that piece and I think that may have brought back a certain level of nostalgia of missing being able to just sort of hang out with her, talk to her, be in space and being community with her. So I think that I think that she did miss Molly because even though all this stuff has been happening, she did not bring it up. Yeah, So I was wondering, I initially until I watched it a second time. I initially thought that we had only seen a little bit of the conversation and that they had gotten into the block party stuff in the middle, and then we just saw them leaving. But it's clear now that they read they didn't talk about it. They were talking about out, you know, work and family and all that kind of stuff, but there really was no digging in to what actually was happening. And I thought I was just like, ah, why not get this poop off your dust step now? Yeah, And it does kind of feel like, um, not on track for how we've seen Issa behave the rest of the season. Right, Like we've talked, even you and I have talked in previous episodes about how she is more assertive now and you know, kind of asking for what she needs and wants in relationships. So I do think it was a bit off, although a throwback to how she typically operated in old seasons of like not speaking up. Isn't that the point? Though? To me, it was like absolutely the point, because it's like here, it is in all these levels of her, in all these areas of her life. She has been able to progress with the work that she's doing, with the people that she's hanging out with, the how she speaks to them. But the one person that she is not able to do that with this the one person who does not see her as a new, unimproved person, but sees her as the same person she's always been. Molly asks the way that she has been acting, and that requires Issa to meet her where she is, because if we're talking about the new Issa and not old Issa, then we're also talking about then we would be talking about Molly calling Issa, because Molly would also have to elevate herself to be where Issa is currently. Molly has always been in a space where Issa comes crawling, you know, crawling back to her, so to speak, to apologize or whatever. And I think that the other friends sort of required it, eVisa, even like, you know, a couple of episodes ago, Kelly's telling Issa called Molly, But who's getting Molly that same energy? Who's telling Molly that she needs to apologize? So Molly gets to continue to act in the way that she has and acting and the way that she has been behaving while no one is holding her accountable to the fact that she also does not see Issa. Yeah, and and why do you think Molly didn't just bring up like, girl, are we gonna talk about the elephant in the room? Because both of them fake. So I don't know that I would describe it as speak you would go with. I think they both missed each other and they were trying to be in community with one another. But I also think that Molly had an expectation that Easta would bring it up with an apology, right, kind of going back to the scene we saw with her therapist, if she is kind of head strong in this idea that it Issa's fault, she expects that Issa will apologize. I mean that was like the whole episode looked like look like Molly waiting and east To not given. So I would say that maybe that's some growth east To didn't give it to her. But there I think there's also a space of easta being like woll Molly only needs to cool down, and once she's cool down, then we'll be able to move forward. But when I think about previous seasons, even when Molly did need to cool down, Lisa still apologized, be it with food or however else, but she definitely apologized. She talked about how she was wrong. But I'm wondering if this new way of her trying to move into this space with her is trying to find a happy medium, so to speak, where she doesn't speak out, but she also is not apologizing, so they sort of end up in this limbo. Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up, because it does feel like those jokes you sometimes that are also real life when you hear people talking about like when your mom would say something like mean to you and they don't apologize, they just say you hungry, Right, So it didn't kind of feel like it was in that same vein of you know, testing out the waters. Right. So if if we can kind of get through this brunch and like not do any name calling or not yell at one another, we must be okay. Not realizing that we still have not addressed the issues that made us fall out in the first place, exactly, but when I mean honestly, I feel like this episode really showed how much work there is for Molly to do. And I know that everyone's you know, people have I feel like people have been in this space a team Molly or team Issa, and I'm team bro Farm, I'm team Fixing. So I don't want to why to get the wrong impression, but because I do remember or my partner and I were discussing it and we heard that some people were saying that, um, Molly doesn't deserve to be with and because of how she is, and I'm just like, wow, y'all tripping um. But beyond that piece, just like, I'm watching her be so far into to Molly's world and she's messing up her relationship with Andrew, and I'm wondering if she's saying it the same way to everybody else is saying it. Probably this is work, Yeah, probably his work. And I'm just like, girl, this is where we are the most easy going man right right. But I think she probably doesn't see it because going back to our continuous points about self awareness, it doesn't feel like she is able to really recognize when he is trying to gently like hold her accountable. She doesn't take it like she will not meet him halfway, you know. So after we see the scene with her and Issa, then we see her back at the apartment with Andrew and he's asking her how did he go um? And then he also talks about like the thing with his brother. So his brother is in town and has invited him to a basketball game, and she's like, uh, you know, why don't you just go right and have a boy's night. And I'm just like, wow, this is this is the extending of an olive branch. This is can we can we reconcile? And honestly, it feels a little bit like I'm gonna make you choose between the two of us. Right now. I'm saying you can have the both of us go over there, you can chill, you can watch the game and all the stuff. But then I'm like, then, well, he like, if y'all, if you and Andrew moved in together, it's Andrew's brother, never a lot in the house. So that's what I was gonna ask you, what are your thoughts about like the survivability if that's a word of a relager. We're gonna now thank you, but but the survivability of a relationship that is still very early and there are already signs of tension with the family. Honestly, I think that it would depend on who you were with. But with we're talking Andrew specifically, he is very invested in his family. He wants a relationship with his family, and I would even go so far to say is that he would require anyone that he is with to also be in communion with his family, which means that this may not work, and it may not work if specifically, if she is unwilling to even engage in the conversation. I'm not saying that she's wrong. I'm like, you know, racism is racism, say see, that's the That's the point that makes it unclear for me, because it wasn't like he just you know, made an off comment about like the shoes she was wearing or something. It was. It was a racist comment that he made, And so I think even for Molly, that should be like a moment of the pause and think about is this something that I really want to continue with given that his brother has already made this kind of a comment. I think for me, I'm just like when you when you fix your mouth to say you're gonna be in an interracial relationship, you better also be fixing your mouth to say you're gonna have some tough conversations because you do not just marry or just be with your partner, You also move in with that family. And I'm just like it is it is very euro Centure to think that the only person you're gonna have to deal with is your partner. Nah, you're gonna deal with their family. So if you're gonna have to deal with that family, are you prepared to do so? Are you willing to have conversations as needed? Are you willing to figure out how y'all are both going to navigate it together? Because if the answer is no, then why are you in this relationship, especially with somebody who sees their family as important as Andrew sees his family. So, I mean, it started gets me thinking about like, not just some of my clients, but some of my friends have spoken about these interrelations relationships that they are in, and it's like, Okay, well, maybe we we can't spend we can't spend Christmas with Aunt Susie because she does this nonsense and we're not gonna do that every year, not at Christmas. Well, is it hurt for a lesser holiday? Okay, we got that mapped out. Okay, this one seems to behave when we are around this family as well, So let's get all of us together. But that's holiday, you're gonna have to have those conversations. So for me, I'm like, if you're unwilling to me, what you just said is that you're also unwilling to be in an interractual relationship, especially with somebody who values their family. Yeah, and I feel like that kind of conversation has been coming up a lot in the community. Um, just you know, given everything that's going on in the world right now, it does feel like people who are in interracial relationships or either continuing to have to have some of these very tough conversations or maybe having some of these very difficult conversations for the first time. And for me, I'm just like, I like, how long you've been together, just not having a conversation for the first time. But Okay, this is a conversation that should have been had up front. It's a it's a constant and ongoing conversation because racism is mundane. It is at the last thing. It's the air we breathe, it's the it's the ground we walk upon. It is the foundation of what the United States was built on. And then anti blackness everywhere else. So if we're gonna if you're gonna be in a relationship with somebody that is not black, even if you're in a relationship with somebody like you're still gonna have to talk about internalized racism, talk about how both of you have, you know, trying the cool aid, and what ways you're gonna do, What are you gonna do to get out of it? And if you're going to be with somebody outside of your race, you're going to have to have these conversations. Many of them should be upfront before you decide to be committed to one another. Are you willing to do this work? That's the question. And right now she's basically saying, I'm unwilling to speak with you know, I'm m willing to be in the space with your brother. But I don't know that that's gonna be okay for Andrew. This might be where he draws the line. Yeah, yeah, And I do feel like this might be we we're starting to see some cracks, um, because you know, fast forwarding to us a few scenes ahead, um, when we see her come back to the apartment with the food, right, so he it sounds like the expectation was that they were having Indian food and she brought back what did she bring back not Indian food? Not Indian food. I don't know if it was Thie food or something else, um, but unilateral decision. Right. There was no communication with him about you know, the fact that we're not having Indian food, and so it feels like there was a little bit of tension there. But then we see Nathan and Easta walking, so you know, they can't kind of finish that conversation. But it does feel like we are starting to see some cracks there in the relationship between absolutely. And It's funny because I was just saying this the other day. I was just like, you know, it's kind of sad because I think that I think that answers actually really great for her and somebody who is willing to sort of cater to her ego just a little bit, um, but beyond just you know, catering to her ego, I think that he loves her like or at the very least express his love to her. On a level that she has never experienced. Yes, and I think that she does not necessarily see herself. I don't think that she is able to accept all the love that he has to get to her. So she's, you know, she's loving herself and loving him on on a half a cup, but he's got a cup full of love to give her. She's overwhelmed by it, and it looks like she is building in separation between her and him. Well, I think that that's where she was kind of alluding to maybe in the scene we saw with her therapist, right, like, just the amount of work that's involved, because it does really require her to get so much out of her own hand and to to be less self absorbed to really think about what in this relationship she's gonna have to grow. She's gonna have to grow, and if she has to grow in this relationship, I think that it would have a positive effect on all her other relationships. The fact that number one, he's one of the only people that calls her out, it's a gentle call or call her in rather very gently, um taking care for her ego. But I think for me, one of the spaces that I was most concerned was when um, you know she comes back, was it? She comes back from therapy? And he was saying like, you know, how does it go? How did it go? And all this, and just like, well, I know you miss her, and then having to reiterate that I'm on your side. For me, that was not a good sign because I'm like, I'm on your side speaks to she doesn't feel you are. It speaks to I'm afraid to say what is really on my mind in a way that is clear and um without sugarcoating, because you will interpret that as my being against you when I am always free. Mm hmmm, Yeah, I mean, well, we clearly see the level of defensiveness she often has when people trying to tell her things, so clearly he has picked up on that in their relationship. Yeah, And I'm just like, I don't think that serves either one of them, because at some point he's gonna get tired of walking on eggshells. And I'm I'm like, I'm hoping that it doesn't happen at the most inopportune of moments. Right, Well, we only have one more episode, so we gotta see if it's gonna blow up this season. Are we gonna have to wait until season five. I don't know how much our little hearts can take in the next thirty minutes. We'll have to see you. So meanwhile, Issa is helping Nathan to move, so he is moving out of the apartment with Andrew and is moving into his own spot. And so we saw this awkwardness with her again when she was telling Lawrence about who he was. And then she's like rehearsing, like how she's going to greet Faith because when she first said it, I was like, no, you can't see that. That's not gonna go for the well, like, Okay, if you want to say that, you can't say that. He don't don't say that. Yeah you. Despite all of our rehearsing, she is just as awkward when she gets to the door. I'm like, yo, this is painful. Yeah. So they're having a little bit of banter about you know, the boxes and you know, packing up and stuff like that, and then she tells him Oh. He says that they're gonna buy the barbershop and then there is space if she needs, kind of like off the space in the back, and so he's being really flortatious with her, saying like, oh, I'll earn it kind of thing, right, um and this is the moment where she decides like, hey, so I don't know if I should to all you this, but Laurence and I, you know, are kind of like trying to figure out. So what are your thoughts about whether she really needed to have that conversation with Andrew. I'm trying, Andrew. She I actually appreciate it that she did have that conversation. I feel like that was her making a boundary clear that right now we stay in friendship, we are not moving forward, we are not trying nothing. This is where I am. I appreciated that she was able to be honest in that moment and just say like, hey, nah, it's not gonna happen that way. And I want to make sure that I'm being clear. But I think that some of that may have also been motivated in some ways, um by you know, Molly calling herselfish and saying that she uses people. So if I'm gonna get this office space or whatever, I want to make sure that you understand exactly where we stand so you can make an informed decision about how you would like to engage with me. Okay, so I can't see your perspective there. I think though I am on the team of like, girl, did you need to share that already? Right, because it is still really early. I feel like with Lawrence and so super early, and he might be moving, might be completely moving, and y'all not even gonna be able to figure it out. But but I do appreciate, like you said, like the idea of setting a boundary. So if she is in the space of feeling like okay, even if I don't know what's happening with Lawrence, I know I want to explore it, so I want to be clear with you. But if she was doing it motivated by the idea, then she thinks that she and Lawrence are like getting back together. That's where I feel a little hesitant about like her not because like, don't put that cop before the horse now, right, and you know I'm teaming I won't. I would like to see this, I would like to see them together. But um, But at the same time, I was just like, you know what, having the car conversation and letting it be known like, Hey, I'm actually exploring this thing with somebody else right now, which means I am not in the space to be able to explore with you, especially if you know the flirtations, banter and all that stuff that we saw was real, and then being able to cut it off and say like, Okay, you can't flirt with me. I'm flirting over there exclusively from now right. I think that, um, I think it speaks to a different like a number one, a different level of maturity. But also that both of these people are people that she has slept with, and having that level of transparency might be necessary given that they are you know that she's in this position and that with Lauren she has messed up. Good point. That's a good point. You're right, You're right. So we see Nathan, you know, he tries to kind of take it on the chin, right, but then he gets a little pitty, He like, oh, I thought she was done with dad, and I hope he got his step together right, And so yeah, I was. If you don't call it out, my man, if you don't call that out, this is why I'm saying, no, Laurence, he got it together right. So then she of course feels it feels like she needs to defend him, right, and so then she says, well, at least he knows how to use his words and didn't basically just ghost me. And so then we see Nathan clearly feels like it's important for him to share that when he was gone for that time that we saw last season, Um, it was because he had gone home and has been diagnosed with a bipolar disorder. Yeah. Yeah, so it definitely feels like, yeah, it it really felt like, you know, it was good for him to share that. I am though, wondering why he didn't share it maybe before, um, because it was clear that they had been continuing to get close this season without it necessarily becoming a flirty thing, like just on a friendship level. Um, So I was wondering why he might not have shared that before this moment. You know, I had no idea why he wouldn't have shared it before this moment, But I'm happy that he did. Yes, I think that, you know, like this to me speaks to a level of comfort, of trust, of knowing that someone's gonna hold space for you. Um. And it's like, maybe this is the first time that Issa actually confronted with him that you ghosted me on this level, Like I was hurt when you ghosted me, and yes, I'm back with this person. But he used his words and you didn't. So now it's like, okay, well let me tell you a little bit why about why I disappeared, so that we can at the very least be on some level of equal footing here. So I like just like to be able to say it, to not have to where the the you know, the strong black man mask and be like, hey, I am a black man, I am still strong, and I have this thing go on and I trust you with it. M. I was just like, Wow, he speaks to where they have been able to what they have been able to achieve together, as far as him being able to be so open about this m M. Yeah. And we saw Andrew, I think, allude to it a little bit last week with his conversation with Molly, but he didn't like go into the full details. And so clearly we know now because Nathan had shared that he's been diagnosed with a bipolar disorder, and I also appreciated that he framed it in a way that he has kind of been thinking about like his support system, right, because we know that that is an important part for somebody who has been diagnosed with a with a bipolar disorder, is what your support system looks like and so telling Eisa, you know you feel like somebody who is a good fit for me. You're somebody who I want to keep in my circle. You know, that's all dry your tears. We're gonna be all right, We're gonna be all yeah. So that that felt like a very tender moment, and you know, I feel like she handled it really well because I think that that is a concern for people. You know, bipolar disorder feels like one of those diagnosis that feels a little scarier for people, and it's not always really easy to talk about. And so I feel like she did a good job of allowing him to have that moment and not reacting in a way that made him feel shamed exactly, because I mean, number one, it's hard to even diagnose it right because it can look like one thing or another thing. But and the way that it's talked about in media can often make it feel like, oh they you know, like this person's back polar and it's just like come on, like you stop that. So being able to have this conversation, I'm hoping that they will talk about it more in subsequent episodes. Um just introducing it and introducing a black man with a mental health disorder who is also seeking help or and creating a village around himself. I feel like even just that piece of it lessons on lessons on lessons. Yes, yes, and this therapy for black men and therapy for black girls. So don't get your therapist, y'all. Yeah, And you know, if you want to hear a more thorough conversation about bipolar disorder, of course, Melissa Eiffel joined me on session. I forget the number, but I included in the show notes talking all about being diagnosed with a bipolar disorder and did a great job of breaking all of that down. So definitely check that episode out if you want a more thorough conversation there. So say, I'm always so impressed by your memories. Well, I remember that we had the conversation. I just don't remember what number it was, Like you remember people's names sometimes, remember even about this session, And I'm just like, here, now you know everything you talked about. When you're make me happy, I'm gonna take some James CT. So earlier you mentioned the idea of nostalgia as it weighed in in the conversation between Molly and Issa, Right, like they were talking about family and getting caught up and those kinds of things, And it feels like that threat of nostalgia also came into play when we see them having the game night or whatever it was, the dinner between nostalgia. It's the most forced nostalgia of my life. Well, the nostalgia I thought was like them thinking about Likesa's first apartment and then playing the Celebrity Height game. Oh no, I was just like, you know what, this whole thing feels like we are still talking around the thing that I felt that we need to talk about, and it just felt awkward really to see. To me, it didn't feel awkward until we saw the text message, right, I mean, it definitely felt awkward when Nick, Nathan, and Issa first got there because they were trying to navigate, right, they were trying to navigate where they're um, they were gonna stay and you know, and clear it was clear that Andrew was kind of pushing for this encounter because I guess he thought, Okay, if they can just been time with one another and see how much they enjoy each other's company, maybe they can kind of be on the roads of recovery. And clearly, time and all around. Well, Molly and Andrew were getting into a conversation that definitely needed to happen, and that energy plus the energy of Issa and Nathan who just had a conversation, and we're in a completely different energy. I'm like, those two energies don't belong in the same space together. And then trying to use one energy to fix the other actors just's like okay, because I was like, Molly is off with Andrew, Molly is off with Issa, and now we're supposed to sit down and commune with one another. The only people that are on board with each other are the other people or Nathan and Andrew. Basically, it almostn't happen. There's no bet m hmmm, which means that the only neutral party in the whole space is Nathan. Yeah, right right, So yeah, I didn't even read it that way, But I can't see your perspective now that you say that, because to me, it felt like they were like having an okay time. Now. I definitely didn't think that this meant they were gonna be like going on all these double dates together and stuff like that, but it did feel like, Okay, they are making a little bit of progress and can kind of be in the same room with one another. Yeah, but clearly we saw that that was not the case. Yeah. And I think for me that it fell off because I possibly because I was already thinking about the fact that Molly still does not think that she was wrong, and the conversation that she was having versus the conversation EASA was having after their initial brunch together. I'm like, Esa is thinking that things are okay, Alie is thinking that they are absolutely not okay. So I'm still moving in that energy and I'm just like, Yeah, that's whole feels forced and contrived, and it feels like a front or Molly's part to not be honest about the fact that she's not feeling it, where for Issa she may be feeling it, but she should also feel that something about it is off because she knows Molly. She's been around Molly for years and years and years. Almost like this whole conversation is off. Ya, I gotta reminiscent about so that gonna far back because you've got nothing going for you right now. M hm. So you know I had to go back right because I think in one of our earlier conversations, I was like, what happened here, Like where did they get off track? And so it feels like maybe the beginning of this was at the end of last season when Molly did not tell Issa that Nathan came by the apartment for her birthday. And so you see then and Molly is talking about like all the issues she's having at work, and so you see Issa challenge her, like, girl, what's going on with you? Like you've really been clowning for several weeks, Like you got all of this bad energy towards Nathan. You know, you've got issues with people at work, Like what is really going on? And so it doesn't feel like they denominatory, It doesn't. It doesn't feel like they ever really resolved that. And so then it feels like we continued with that into this season until clearly now we have had yet another blow up, not as big as the block party or not as much energy, but still equally as sad. I think you know now that you mentioned that that ending of last season, and it'sa's confrontation of like that, that's just to me, it throws things in a completely different way because I'm like, Okay, now with that in mind, it makes sense that that Molly is on some Nah, she honed this thing that she does his home grown not to to sort of put herself back in the position that she felt that she was in or that she should be in, because it's like, well, how you how are you miss mestic gonna call me out? Mmm? Like, well, I feel like I was a little misled because when we saw this season open, they were doing the self care Sunday thing, right, but we don't know that they had kind of just again like patched over this confrontation that they had at the end of the the last season and had never actually gone back to to really working that out. And now from there to here to this year. So we see this scene in Andrew goes to get another bottle of wine out of the refrigerator and Molly picks up her phone to send a text that she thought she was sending to Andrew, and clearly it is this is drinking and texting. He gots to be more careful. I need everybody from here on in double check anyone that you think you're sending a text message to. Ac think you've done, type the check again to make sure you're sending it to the right person. You do not want your depict to go to your mom. You do not want your nude to go to your sister. So make sure that you you check and gible check check twice to make sure that we no longer have this type of mishaps with the thumbs. These these these drum thumbs text the own person every time. Yes, So she she opens the message and it says, see, I'm trying with her. It's interesting that Molly even felt like she needed to send that message in the moment, because it's like, could y'all not have just talked about that like once they left. Yeah, So like the urgency of feeling like she needed to like say that to Andrew I think was interesting. You know what, thank you for bringing that up because because it's sort of reminded me like the same way that Andrew is having to state the unnecessary of I'm on your side, Molly, the unnecessary piece of needing to state, see, I'm trying. And I think that has to do with the fact that Andrew has been confronting her about the back that she does miss her friend, but and also calling her out on not trying, like you're not really trying to fix nothing. You say you want to fix. But then you're not acting like you want to fix. And I think that's the same thing that he said you want, say you're doant things fixed. No, you don't want things fixed. You want people to come back crawling to you with apologies on their lips, to place you back on the pedestal that you think you belong while they worship at your feet. That's what you want. You want people to be forever contract for how they wronged you. That does feel like it is. That's a part of it now that you say that, right, like that, even if somebody apologizes, even if you know they do the thing that you say they want that you want, like, are they ever really forgiven? Yeah? Or are we still punishing them to prove themselves to you? Exactly? And this feels like I'm gonna keep punishing her. So she's got proved herself to me with everything that she's got, and what she's got right now is not enough for me. But I want you to see that I'm trying so that you could stop calling me out on it. I don't want your confrontation. I don't want you to keep calling me in because it makes me, It makes me feel something I think it makes it feel some type of way, maybe a little bit guilty. Maybe it's a little bit more of a self reflective moment. And she starts seeing how she has contributed from consistently being called in by Andrew about how she has been behaving in this space. Yeah. Yeah, So of course Hesa is upset at this text message that, you know. She's like, oh, I don't think you're listening this to me. She runs out of the house and Molly chases after her, and so they have this conversation on the steps about you know, I thought that we were trying to get this back on track. Molly says, you know, stuff has been off track for a lot of a long time. We didn't even talk about the ball party, Like, we have not been in the same place in this relationship for a long time. And so she says, maybe who I am now and who you are now are just a not a good fit for one another. And then you didn't mean it well clearly right, And then East's like, okay, so this is where I want to talk about this testing behavior. I don't think that was on testing behavior. No, I'm saying Molly was testing that tracklingling if you try it. Somebody will call your bluff and you are not a good poker player. I don't do that. If you do not mean it, do not do it. It's the same way that like, you know, Dr a Jetta. On occasion, she'd be talking about something like you can go ahead call call your cable company and see if they are lower that there on telling you're gonna leave, actually be prepared to leave these You can't make a half a threat. You have to mean it. So I'm looking like so here she is trying to be like trying to force what she has not been doing. So being in that position of being contriked, of being of being apologetic, and of in some way or shape or form begging for forgiveness saying that no, I want you to be in my life, which makes me wonder about what her core uh, what sort of core message that Molly has for herself. If she needs people to constantly basically reassure her that they want her, it makes me wonder if she has a core message in herself that she is not wanted or that she's you know, that she's unwanted or unlovable and needs consistent reconfirmation from people, especially through how they act when they have wronged her. M m, yeah, it definitely feels like something is going on there because I do think, like you've mentioned, anytime you get into a situation where you are trying to give someone basically an ultimatum or a threat like that, you really have kind of cornered yourself, right, because if you get the reaction that you want, which is for her to say, oh my gosh, please no, Molly like that kind of thing, then you have to you have to keep that same energy throughout the relationship. Right, So how many tests are there going to be every time there is an attention or a rupture in the relationship, or the person says like Issa did, like Okay, I see what you're saying. I'm not gonna fight you. And then you're left feeling like, so, now this this whole self fulfilling prophecy of nobody wants to be in relationship with me or maybe I'm too much or whatever. Now you've proven that, right, Yeah, Yeah, like Selffelling prophecy, go ahead and reconfirm with how people behave. Go ahead and punish people according to how you felt that they've wronged you. You are going to lose at on point, somebody will call your love, and her bluff got called, and specifically it didn't get called exactly in the way that even I think Momley was expected, because if you look at ESA's face, I was like, go het girl, gonna act your butt off. Her whole I was like the like the like you could almost watch her going through the change curve right cooler got thinking about cooler ross and the and the various stages you know, denial, grief, acceptance, she went. It's like her whole face went through all of that before she just said Okay, yeah, like I respect that this is where you are and I'm willing to move forward to see I kind of read that as exhaustion, right, like that she feels like she has done all this. Now, granted she has not really put the issue on the table, she has not done that, but it does feel like at least she thinks that she has made all of these efforts to try to get them back on track, and none of it has clearly been well received by Molly. Yeah, because I'm just like, well, it's almost like, well, if Molly doesn't think that she owes an apology and things that I'm the only one that owes an apology. What really here has changed? What more does she want from me? Because I can't return to that person, especially when I it's almost like I'm looking around at my other relationships and the value that I receive from them and the value that they say that they received from me. That this these are reciprocal relationships that are able to grow with me, not regress me back to who I was. And I think that that part is really important, you know, to get back into my business on occasion, this is one of those occasions I had to to deal with my own stuff, right Like I've I've changed a lot since you know, elementary, middle school, whatever. But I had a friend. I've literally known her my entire life. I do not know a time where I did not know her. But when we would first get back together, I'm just like, you know, this feels off. I I could. I had to learn to find my voice when I was in her presence because all of our lives, it was always her first, me second, Her speak first, me speak second, her be the president, me be the vice president her. You know, it's like she came first, I came after. There was not necessarily equal ground. It was she's the leader and I'm the follower, and now we are different people than who we were back then. But I regress to who I was when I was there, when I was in her presence, because I knew my role the this was my role with her, I did not know how to reconcile the who I am now with who she is now, And so we fall back into these patterns. You know, you try to pick up where you left off, but sometimes we forget that where we left off is so far in the past that it doesn't match who we are right now. Yeah. You don't even know how to get back to that place exactly. And in some ways Molly has progressed, like, let's not forget her girl, she has grown with this relationship. She has not, Yeah, And in some ways she's unwilling to really do the work that is required of her to make all the things come full force right here, right now. Yeah. And I think, you know, thinking back to the conversation with her therapist where she's talking about how much work it is, I think that there is so much work to do in terms of her self awareness that she only really feels like she can do work in one relationship and right now that work is with Andrew, and so it is not looking like well, yes, but I think she's focused on like how can I make improvements in this relationship and not thinking that some of those skills are actually transferable, Like some of the same mishap she's having in her relationship with Andrew are the same things that are happening in her relationship with Eza. Don't tell them about these transferable skills. I just try to tell people like, like, alright, so like sex wise or sex therapy wise, I'm like, I ask people about the skills they use that work all the time. At work, you do a lot of stuff to prepare just to be in the space you you you do your hair, You make sure that your clothes are clean, You wash your body, your lotion your body, You get dressed. You give yourself enough space and time to get there. You might even start off slow with work so that you can ease into the work day for something, would we like to hit the ground running either way, there's preparation that happens before. Meanwhile, we don't put the same level of effort into our sex lives. M we don't prepare ourselves. We don't we don't fashion ourselves. We just think that because maybe we live with our partners, that sex is guaranteed at any time, and that you don't actually have to do any preparation the same way that we would do preparation at work. I'm like, if you don't transfer them skills like you know how to you know how to ease somebody into where you are, you know how to try to convinse the boss about our grades that you want. You do a lot of free work, same thing with sex. Where is your free work? And with this, I'm just like the level of effort that you are putting into maintaining this relationship with Andrew, your willingness to have tough conversations, your willingness to confront yourself and be in therapy as needed. Where it was this energy with Issa? Yeah, because I do think it's telling that it wasn't the blow up at the block party that like send her to therapy. She did not recognize the need to go back to therapy until she was on the vacation with Andrew. She's not saying how all these things are connected that she ends up being the common denominator in all these spaces. Yes, Yes, and that's kind of sad and where the work needs to happen, right, And I feel like that's what Dr Ronda was trying to get her to kind of pay attention. Dr Ronda's gonna have to be a little less subtle, and I'm saying that because she already has subtle and Andrew, I think that every now and then a therapists ripped that band aid off. Yeah, well, I think we pay attention to the fact that this is like her first session back after not being there for some time, so she's probably still trying to abses us like, Okay, how far can I push her now that she's re engaged with therapy. True, I have been known to make people cry in session one. It is a lesson at a skill because I'll just be like, oh, so this is what you're saying, and they be like when you say it like that, and I'm just like, well, you, therapy is not polite conversation and I didn't come here so you can waste your time or money. Time is your most precious commodity and I won't have you wasted not with me. So I'm gonna say the thing. I'll say it gently, especially in the first session. I'll be very gentle with you, but I'm not going to hold it just because you know. So I'm just like, I like that, you know. She she did try to hold her accountable, she did try to to move her in that space. Molly was unwilling to see or go. For me, that's probably a moment where I'm like, Okay, let's let's move you into different shoes, let's move you to a different position. Let's try to consider all the angles, all the things that are at play here, and maybe that helps. But I'm just like, at this point, Molly is on the verge of losing the relationship with Andrew, losing the relationship with Issa, and we don't even know what what things have been like at work for her. I mean, we know that the last thing we saw her yelling at her secretary, yes, yes, you're right, you're right. Yeah, there was already tension there because she's still trying to figure out a good, you know, relationship with Torreon after she kind of damaged that relationship last season. So we know there's still some tension at work for Shure Are So then there's a lot of work to be done. And for me, this is an emergency. Yeah, so we did get a question, and I think it is a perfect high end to your statement about the roles that you and your friend played. So Barry, who is the genius behind the podcast directory podcast in Color, So she is a faithful o G member of the Therapy for Black Girls community. If Dr Donna is coming back, I have a question that I want you all to address, and it is a great question, she says. We all talk a lot about the strong friend, and in this dynamic of the four friends, it seems like until now, Molly was a strong friend. Good job, come through and asked to all of the events. But what about when the strong friend doesn't know how to be vulnerable because they've always stayed in the strong friend place. They don't want advice. They give it even though they call people users because they don't have the space to be vulnerable in return. Right right? I like that, right absolutely. It's it's funny this. This takes me back. It takes me back a little over a year ago. I recorded my first if Therapy Walls could Talk video. I didn't call it them back back then, but it was called fuck it, I'll do it. It's still on my Instagram today. And it came about because there I am sitting in therapy, here's somebody talk about something. Yeah, I mean I was thinking about doing this, but then I was just like it I do it myself. And I was like, yeah, does that serve you? And how often we move? And fuck it, I'll do it because we don't. We don't. We're just like, well, they're not gonna do it right, it's gonna take them too long. I need it done like this. I need it done like this and right now. And I'm just like, you don't make room for anybody to help you, But then you complain that people don't help you. How can you make room for the people who love you to be of actual support to you? How can you articulate what it is that you want, what it is you need, the steps that you need done and when you need it? Dumb by? Because the thing is most people in your life are willing to help, but you haven't said anything. That has been a lesson that I have been contending with all years. So far this year we are only enjoy we half way And it is a constant thing that comes up even for me because I don't want to be a father or I don't. I don't. Oh, I know that they got their own thing going on. So instead you take away their choice to decide what they are able to do for you because you have decided they can't m and you know that really kind of feels like a throwback to our earlier conversation about the self fulfilling prophecy and her testing Issa, like, is she going to fight for me? Right? So, if she has made it up in her mind that they can't be there for me in the ways that I need or I don't trust that they will be there for me in the same ways that I am because of some other thing, right, nothing, nothing related to evidence, Because if we write it out and look at Okay, have people actually been there for you, likely you will be able to see the that they have. But in your mind you are informations. You are cognificent to she just saying, Okay, she's not she's not even gonna fight for me. My dad is not even gonna fight for me. These people are not row not even gonna fight for me. Nobody fights for me, nobody really wants me there, that thing becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. So we haven't necessarily seen enough about her childhood and her relationship with her parents to know for sure. But that is how she's behaving. She has some message, like you said, about who she is in relationship to other people, where she's always looking for people to affirm her and trying to test out whether people are really gonna fight for her. And yes, of course, pure speculation because I have no idea, we don't know, we don't know. I always saying you know only God about about me, saying but just that piece of it. I'm just like, yes, that part, absolutely, that part. And I know for a lot of my friends, I have been the strong friend, the together friend to know what I'm doing friends, the one that is most planned. I am all into goal planning that the thing looks ridiculous, but at the same time, I know that there is there's growth for me in vulnerability and being able to ask people for help or to ask for the thing that I want or need. Like one of my friends, I was I'm now, this is silly. I want to I want to preface it by saying I know it's silly, but I was like, hey, I follow you on social media, follow me on social media, and I was feeling a way about it, and then felt like I couldn't say anything about it. And I was like, and what does that mean about our friendship? If I can't even say something, even if it is silly. If I can't bring it up silly and I can't bring it up, then what what does that say? Am I not willing to be in a space of vulnerability to just ask? So I asked, and you know what happened. They followed at me that and on top of that, they said thank you. They said to me, thank you for stay. They said, never apologize to me for saying for telling me what you need in any moment, I am happy that you told me. And I was just like, well, look at that. And I've noticed that I've been getting that a lot lately. Right. So one of my friends, I said that I would do goal planning with him and his wife, and I was I was more than willing to do it, but then a bunch of stuff hit the thing all that once, and my schedule looked like boo boo, and I just wasn't feeling it, and I was like, I'm so sorry, but I just can't. Like all this stuff came up and I'm really tired, and he said, don't apologize, thank you for telling me that you are tired. Let's reschedule for a time that works best for both of us. These I was just like, I got some dope friends. You can say this type of stuff, even joy, I ask you for things and you just be like, oh, yeah, okay, of course. Meanwhile, you don't know that I does spend two days contemplating the thing, walking back and forth, telling my partner like at all, now, that's not nice, like that type of thing. Meanwhile, you just be like, yeah, okay, here you go, here you go. And and this is also part of trusting the people in your life to give you an honest answer about what they're able to do in any given moment, and being okay with the fact that, yeah, they might say no. And I asked the friends to share article I wrote, and she was just like, sorry, sweeting, no, I can't read this, which means I can't share it, I can't comment on it, I can't do any of that stuff because I'm not in a space and I'm in a mental space to read this thing right now. And I said, thank you, yeah, thank you for telling me that. I'm like, I'm not gonna be look like I'm writing about how police brutality is related to colorism. Yeah, I know this stuff is heavy. We've been living and heavy. So to hear back like, hey, this is too heavy for me right now, it's just like I appreciate you. Thank you for telling me that this is not something that you can talk about or share right now. I appreciate that. So, if you're a strong friend, stop it. Mm hmmm, yeah, because I think the other thing, you know, I think sometimes when people really get invested in this identity as a strong friend, it's really hard to shake it, right, And I think underneath that a lot of times is is a lot of insecurity and a lot of what's going to happen if I'm not a strong friend? Does this group still need me? And so then you get really caught up in wanting to maintain that identity as a strong friend because you're worried that that that the group is gonna fall la part or there will be no place for you if you're not that person. And I'm just wondering, how would you actually help your friends to be better equipped to help themselves by stopping being a strong friend? M Yes, Because sometimes we know that that crosses over into enabling. Exactly. It makes me actually think of um, Mike Michelwitz, Um, what's that book called Clockwork? And how he talks about like like I don't know how many people have seen what's the name of that that? Oh megamnd So like the superhero, you know, he makes his death, he goes away. Sorry spoiler alert, Yes, and from like two thousands, seven eight nine. So I'm gonna like we if you ain't seeing in my bag at this point, you should have, um, but like just you know, he just he faked his death because he was he was tired of constantly say even be but because they make no moves on their own, they see the thing about to hit them and stand there and screen make no moves. Meanwhile, when he went away, the people started to actually do some work to see themselves. Then if you stop swooping in like Superman, how many people would actually do some work to do some savings of themselves and other people and you? Exactly, it would be able to create a web of strength between all of you where you're all able to use your strengths to fortify each other because your strengths are gonna be in different places. No one needs that one strong friend that solves everybody's problems. That's draining for the strong friend and enabling for the other ones. Yes, yes, come on and wrap up with that. Good words. Thank you so much for that question. Very perfect taleing for this episode. Okay, so quickly, our predictions for our season finale? Next but I'm gonna cry, You're gonna cry? Okay, So what do we think happens between Molly and Andrew? They break up? You think they break up next week? I think they're gonna take a break. I think that it might be a real tough conversation where it's just like Andrew is just gonna be like, I don't think you're here. Okay, Okay, so we think there's a tough conversation on the heels for them. I think I don't know that that's gonna happen next week. I definitely feel like we will see some of that, but I don't know if it happens next week. Okay. So for Issa and Molly, what do you think? I feel like we're not really gonna see anything between East and Molly. Like I feel like this week was the closure button on Desa and Molly, at least for this season. Yep. I think that we're gonna the only place we're gonna see East and Molly is together in therapy. But Molly's talking about it. M mmmmm, okay, so maybe a therapy see next week. All right? What about saying Lawrence, I think that Lawrence is getting a job in San Francisco. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that, And y'all heard me say I'm still kind of holding out one I opened for what's gonna have away Condola because I do not feel like we've really seen the last of her. She might be pregnant or she's gonna do something. It feels I don't feel like we have really closed the door on that situation with Condola, and she might be moving to San Francis and rights around me. So there was a moment and I feel like this is just me watching too much foolish TV. There was a moment when he was on the phone with Issa from San Francisco. I'm like, it's Condola there with you. There's no evidence for that besides me watching too much Lifetime TV. I mean, now you gonna put it out. I'm like, bring it back. I don't know, it's just not there with him. I don't really think she is, but it just feels like there is not a real closed door there. So I feel like we still are going to see her pop up. And then I'm worried about because he chooses to turn down the job to be with Issa, and how that might create tension and just resentment that he did not take an opportunity that he really wanted. Interesting, you're right, You're right. How far is La and San Francisco? Apparently it is a one hour flight, but considering Rona well, clearly, but they're not living in a Ronal world world at all. If it's a one hour flight, it's probably what like between six and eight hours drive time. I'm guessing Jesus, I don't know, that's the whole day, That's what I'm just thinking. Like, it's one hour for me to fly from Atlanta to New Orleans and so, but the drive would be like seven or eight hours, So I'm thinking maybe the same kind of thing. But if it's that close of a flight, then it does feel like there would be maybe some opportunity for them to work it out long distance if he does, if they decide to stay together, and if he moves to San Francisco. Yeah, yeah, because the way they're talking right, like the fact that they have not clearly decided like what this is. I don't hear either of them feeling hesitant about like, Okay, what happens if you move to San Francisco and we're trying to work this thing out. I think they if he moves to San Francisco, I don't think they're gonna try a long distance you don't think so, okay, But I agree. I do agree that he is moving to San Francisco. I think that's what's gonna happen with him. So I don't quite know what's gonna happen with he said Lawrence, But I do feel like Lawrence is going to San Francisco, like, congratulations on your job. And then finally, what about Nathan and Issa? Oh. I think that Nathan stiff has feelings for Esa. Well, we saw that. So in the preview of next week, we see him say, you know, I don't want to regret not telling you exactly how I feel. I think that that's gonna happened, probably maybe before Lawrence says I got the job, um, and that will create a conundrum for this Issa, Um, I don't know. I do like them together. Being honest, I do, so I don't, I don't know. I I think I can appreciate the level of honesty and vulnerability that it takes for you to say that you like somebody even though they don't mean with somebody else. Well, it kind of feels like the same thing she did with with Lawrence, right, Like he was going over to Candola and she was like, what if I don't want to go home? So it really feels like there are a lot of parallel processes between these characters these this season. That's because they're so communicative, transparent talking except money. So I don't quite know, Like I don't necessarily love Nathan and Issus together, but I'm not opposed to them together. Mostly want them to be friends because I feel like they do do a lot for each other. I mean, really inspired her to move forward with her own vision and to be strong in that vision. Yes, yes, yeah, I mean I feel like he has to have a lot of the credit for like the growth we've seen in her this season. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we'll we'll kind of keep our eyes open there. So at the end of the sneak peek, we see her saying hey to somebody, who do you think that is? No? What's up? No, it was clearly like a like a heavy hay. Yeah, well maybe maybe they're gonna break back dude from season two Daniel. Oh No, that would be too shady. I feel like that would way two out of left field, and so I would like have has to rewind that clip to see, like, do I recognize the background of like where they are? But I can't tell if it's like trying to go private trying to see I don't know. I don't even know if I have a guess about who it is. I don't think it's Molly. I think that they would like us to think that it's Molly, but I don't actually think it's Molly. Maybe it's Kelly Helly. What would it be an awkward thing with them? You said earlier tonight that you thought it was gondola hops that listen. I don't need no drama. You know they're gonna give us something because this is the season for Atalie, so it's gonna be something hanging for whole hopefully just a year this time. Well, I don't know, I mean giving everything with roma. We don't know how safe it will be for them to record at it mean, well they can record, oh goodness, and then if it's like all the beautiful shots in cinematography that we love so much, we would be robbed of So we might have to wait, I'll think so, I don't think so, yeah, probably probably not. But yeah, I don't, you know, I really don't know. But I'm nervous about the whole thing. I mean, I might be live tweeting while I watch it. Hold on, well, we might be live tweeting, but we definitely will be back to do I recap of the season finale. So if there are questions that you have for Donna and I UM that you want like very sent in, definitely send them to us. You can email them to us at podcasts at Therapy for Black Girls dot com, or you can slide them into our d M s UM and we will try to answer any of them. You know, probably lots of them will be just answered in our general conversations. But if there's something that you want to make sure that we touch on in our finale recap next week, then definitely send those to us. If you slide into my dams, you better put t f G on it so I know exactly what you're talking about, because people people slide in my d ms with all kinds of questions clearly clearly labeled to let us know that it's something that you want to have on the podcast. We're just gonna hope for the best, it's gonna be awesome. For the best. We're gonna hope that we are not left in te years next week and that maybe everyone will kiss and makeup. I doubt that. I doubt that, but maybe it will not be as traumatic as we're maybe thinking it will be. Stay tuned. I'm so glad Dr oriole Will was able to join us again this week. Don't forget to check out the show notes that Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session for links to our previous three conversations about Insecure, or to grab your copy of her book Cocoa Butter and Hair Grease. And please share your takeaways in season finale predictions with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in session. Don't forget to share this episode with the other Insecure fans in your life. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this episode and meet some other sisters in your area, come on over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective where we take a deeper dive into the topics from the podcast and just about everything else. You can join us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y c C. Don't forget to show some love to our sponsor this week by checking out Freedom at the mat on YouTube. Are going to story Worth dot com slash tv G to grab ten dollars off your purchase. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. 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