Managing Struggles with Fertility

Published Oct 17, 2018, 7:00 AM
This week I'm joined by another one of my incredible line sisters to discuss struggles with fertility. Our guest therapist this week is Licensed Psychologist, Dr. Andreka Peat. Dr. Peat and I discussed some of the cultural issues that impact the conversation around Black women and fertility, some of the alternative paths to motherhood her clients have employed, how she helps her clients manage their mental health through these processes, and she shared her favorite resources.

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Welcome to the Therapy for a Black Girls Podcasts, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy Hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. And while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session seventy nine of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Today, I'm joined by another one of my amazing line sisters for a discussion about infertility. Our guest therapist today is Dr Andrika Pete. Dr Pete is a licensed clinical psychologist with a private practice in downtown Decada, Georgia, where she specializes in women's mental and reproductive health. Her practice focuses on working with fertility concerns, third party reproduction, miscarriage and perinatal laws, perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, birth trauma, relationship concerns, and other mood disorders. She also has a specialty in working with university students. Doctor Pete received her doctorate in Clinical psychology from the Georgia School of Professional Psychology, her Master's of Public Health degree with a Maternal and Child health concentration from Tulane University, and her undergraduate degree from Xavier University of Louisiana, which of course is where we met. Dr Pete and I discuss some of the cultural issues that impact the conversation around Black women in fertility, some of the alternative paths to motherhood her clients have employed, how she helps her clients manage their mental health through these processes, and she shared her favorite resources for anyone who wants to learn more about the topic. If something really connects with you while listening, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag tv G in Session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us to daydreak good. Thank you for having me. Dr Joy. I'm so excited to be here, very excited to have you. I'm happy our schedules were finally able to align to get you on the podcast. Yes, yeah, and I do think it's really important and really timely for you to be here chatting with me because there have definitely been lots and lots of conversations around infertility. Um it feels like, you know, just in the media and kind of in community. UM, so can you tell me what are some of the most common causes of infertility? Yeah, you know, and fertility impact a lot of people, and there are a lot of things that we do know and a lot of things that we don't know. Um, And so from a risk factor perspective, there's lots of things, specially thinking about women, there is history of fibroids, endometriosis, polycystic ovarian syndrome about people who have endometriosis will experience some degree of infertility. And you know, I'm not sure if you're aware of what endometriosis is, well, if our listeners really know what that is. But it's when like there's a tissue that's similar to the tissue that's in the uterus that kind of gets in other parts of the pelvic area and it can make it difficult to sustain a pregnancy. And the polycystical variant syndrome that I mentioned previously is a hormonal imbalance where there is an excessive amount of androgens, so that's also a rispector. Other respectors are previous histories of certain s t I s being really significantly out of your B M I weight range, so being very overweight or very underweight. It's also something to be thoughtful about. And then there's some pieces of infertility that we just don't know what's causing it, so that's also extremely frustrating for people as well. Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because I would imagine that that is really frustrating, right, like to we not have anything going on that you've mentioned and still not be sure why you cannot sustain them. Yeah, you know, and I think it's really hard. I think you know about it's about a third. There's gonna be different numbers out there, but there's about a third of Like when you're thinking about couples who are experiencing infertility, about a third of that it can be due to infertility or fertility issues related to the woman. About a third of that can be fertility issues related to the mail, and then a third of that is just sort of unexplained. And I find that for a lot of my clients, they really have a heart and difficult time with that. MM hmm. Yeah, So what are some of the most common kinds of concerns? You know, when you have either singles or couples coming to you with concerns, what are some of the most common things that they're struggling with. Well, you know, I think, first off, there's just a lot of grief, and I think sometimes people don't recognize it as grief or realize it as grief. They think, for many people, and this is not true for all people, but for many people, they spent a majority of their life trying to prevent pregnancy, right, and then they make a decision or a choice to sort of expand their family, and then when that doesn't happen naturally or easily, then there's a grief process that happens with that. And then for people who are single, there's sometimes a grief process that happens with that of it not happen in a way that they thought it might have. And so I see a lot of that. I think some of the other stuff that I see a lot of is a lot of anxiety. If you think about it, like you're constantly sort of worrying and waiting and wanting to know is it gonna happen this month? Is it not gonna happen this month? And then if you're undergoing any kind of fertility treatments, then this you're often thinking about, like, well, what am I eating? What am I putting in my body? Am I doing all the right things? Am I taking my medicine at the right time? And my am I too stressed out? Am I not stressed out enough? Should I be worried about this? And so I think a lot of times people are just experiencing a lot of anxiety because it's just a really anxiety provoking process. Yeah, and I would imagine that that would be really hard to work with, right, I mean, because I think, you know, just the entire like the whole idea of like either becoming pregnant or not becoming pregnant, Like, there's just a lot of anxiety around that entire process. And yeah, how how do you work with your clients to try to manage some of that anxiety? Well, you know, I think the first thing is that validated. You know, I think a lot of times, a lot of whelming meaning people and you know, my clients lives are like, don't worry about it, don't be so stressed out. About it. You know, I got pregnant when I stopped thinking about it, you know, And I think people are sort of really well intentioned when they're saying that, But I also think that you know, there is some validity and that this is something that you really cannot control and that it is making you feel anxious. And so one of the first things I do is really try to validate their experience, give them a place to be able to put it out there and process it, because I don't think they really have those places, and not because people don't care. It's because people want them to feel better. They don't want them to word, so they try and take it away. And then I think the other thing that I really try to help clients do is to stay as grounded in the present moment as possible. And so really a lot of mindfulness is really helpful when working with this, because you can only deal with what you can deal with what's right in front of you right now. You don't know what's gonna happen next week when you are expecting your period, or you don't know what's gonna happen or what the result of this next text is going to be, So I really try to help people get into more of a mindful space and really learn how to anchor themselves in the present moment. So that's something that I do a lot. Yeah, it seems like those kinds of strategies and techniques would be really helpful. M Yeah, So you know, I know that there are lots of options, you know, like if people have kind of exhausted all of the options um related to kind of the natural or typical way that people become pregnant. What are some other options are path to motherhood that you maybe help your clients explore. Well, you know, there is assistant reproductive technologies. It's called a r T, and I work with so many couples and some single people they're called choy parents who are really using these methods to grow their families. And a r T or system reproductive technologies is very broad. That's sort of like the umbrella, and there are lots of different ways to do it underneath that, and so some of those the most common are what we call i UI, which is an intra uterine insemination. And so in the i U I process, it's just when there's a concentrated sperm that is inserted directly into the woman's uterus, and so say that is a heterosexual couple and they there are lots of tests that are involved in that, and so if they're still good egg quality and there's still good sperm quality, then that is also an option. The other option is IVF, which is in vitro fertilization, and that's the process where the eggs are taken and extracted from the uters and then a sperm is you get a sample of that and they are sort of mixed together in dish to create an embryo. And then once the embryo is formed, then the embryo is implanted and transferred directly into the woman. So those are some really common options that people use, and there are different reasons for going down that route. Now, even further down there, you can do egg donation. So say, for example, women whose eggs are not viable for whatever reason, they can seek to have egg donation and use their partner sperm. Or perhaps there's an issue with the sperm, or perhaps you're a single person or you are saying sex couple, you can get sperm donation. You can also have embryo donation. So there are times when people have left over embryos and they're healthy and they're not going to use them and they don't want them to be discarded. They will put them up for embryo adoption, and then the embryo you could be stayed. A couple could choose this embryo and have it implanted via IVF. So there are lots of options, and I would also imagine with those options though, that also comes with some challenges. So can you talk about maybe some of the challenges your clients have even if they've decided on that process. Yeah, I mean, I think it comes with a lot of challenges. I think specifically, Number one is it spitsific. I mean, a round of IVF typically in general costs about twenty dollars, and insurance may or may not cover any of that. So there is a huge financial component, okay. And that it's not even talking about the stress and strain that it puts on a person's body to go through this process. Because when you're going through fertility treatments, you are taking a lot of medication to prepare your body for ovulation. You're getting injections of hormones, and so there's a lot of physical changes that you're happening that are happening in your body at one time, and not just physical, but you know, hormones also impact you emotionally, so there are a lot of emotional changes and things that may feel extremely unsettling to you, to your partner, to your friends and family. People may not understand why you're acting a certain way or while you're behaving a certain way. And then in addition to that, there's a significant and this is another piece of where the anxiety really comes in, is that you have to go to these appointments based around your cycle. So you can't just say, oh, I'm gonna take off next Friday from work and I'm gonna take care of all this stuff like whenever your cycle starts, so you have to be vigilant about when that's happening. And then you have to have enough flexibility within your work situation to be able to attend these appointments kind of at random, you know, without a lot of notice. And I think that just causes a lot of stress. And because there's still a lot of stigma. I'm so grateful we're talking about this. There's a lot of stigma, especially within the black community, around this that people are not necessarily really open about what's happening for them, and so they're sort of going through this process with limited amounts of support at times, and so I think it's just really stressful. And I'm glad you said that because I do think, you know, that there's a lot of like misinformation um about like what these processes involved. But also I think there can be this thought that like black women don't struggle with this, like we're just supposed to be super fertile, right, kind of dating back to some of those old stereotypes about what black women are. And so you know, having to even maybe admit that you're having these struggles, I think feels like a big deal for a lot of people. Yeah, completely, And I'm so grateful that you mentioned that because I think just like culturally, the messages that you know, historically have been put out about Black women is very high for sexualized and very fertile. Right, So there's this sort of message that has been placed on black women in the community about our ability to be fertile, and then that's sort of what's placed on us. But then I think within the black community there is this this sense about family, you know, that that being central and important, and so I think a lot of times, there's a lot of pressure to feel like you are extending your family, right, like you're creating additional children, You're you're creating your own family unit. And I think that's a lot of pressure. And then when we're talking just culturally, there's a lot of stigma about like keeping you know, your business to yourself, right. There's there's a lot of that in the black community, about not telling your business to everybody and being private and superwoman and being able to handle everything and be seen as having it all together all the time. So I just think there's a lot of different sort of nuances culturally that adds to the pressure of this. Yeah, and I think drinking would also want to hear more about, Like I would imagine that this can be really stressful for couples, um, you know, like how do you have maybe some of those difficult conversations or you know, And I know I've seen it depicted like on TV, but I'm sure some of this is real about like when are we going to kind of say enough, like what's going to be the line? You know? Um, So I'm curious about like some of those conversations and how you might be able to broach those kinds of topics. You know, that is such a like pertinent question, you know that comes up a lot, and I have seen it in all types of couples and heterosexual couples, in same sex couples of like when is enough enough? And a lot of times one person is really pushing to keep going, and the other person it's like I need, like this has to stop. And it tends to be the partner that is not undergoing the physical treatment that wants it to stop. It's very interesting and it's almost like for one of the partner from in my experience, it's mostly like they have gone through all of this and their bodies and they just feel like they wanted to be worth something. They want, you know, there to be having an outcome. And so I think it's really difficult because it feels really hard to be on the opposite end of a spectrum with someone your partner, where you're trying to grow your family, and it can put you sort of at odds. And oftentimes what I encourage couples to do is to be honest with what they're experiencing and what they're feeling, even if they are afraid of hurting the other person's feelings, because a lot of times I will get the sense that one person wants to stop and the other person doesn't, and it's just sort of showing up in their attitude versus just saying it directly. And so I encourage Number one, I encourage couples to have open, honest dialogue, even when it's difficult and it's hard. The second thing I really think is important to think about with that is really questioning why you want to stop or why you want to keep going, Like really asking yourself what is motivating me to keep going? Is it this idea that like I'm only a woman if I have a child? Is it this idea that our family is only valid if we have children. Is it that we've already spent this much money so we can't stop now? Like what is really motivating you to continue? And then see, do you really believe that? Because a lot of times we just keep going based off of these stories that we have in our minds that we've just accepted as true, but we haven't evaluated them and really understanding like is this a message that you're getting from society or is this something that's coming from you internally? And then also asking yourself the same question if you're the person that wants to stop, like, is this fear? Is this just about money? Is painful for me to see my partner going through this, and I just feel completely helpless. So really evaluating these things may not necessarily just give you a clear understanding of what decision you want to make, but it can help you be able to have a conversation in a constructive way. Those are some great tips drinking, and I do think you know a lot of that could be helpful even for discussing other kinds of things, especially the part about holding onto these stories and we don't even know one where they came from or why we are still believing it um, you know, so really evaluating it to see if it is true for you, I think could be helpful in a lot of different situations. Absolutely, So you've already mentioned some of the expense that may be related to, you know, kind of undergoing some of these uh procedures and stuff. But I'm wondering also just because I do feel like we are seeing more in pop culture, especially around like women freezing their eggs, and jobs are offering this as a um as a benefit in some cases what the things should people be thinking about besides like the cost related to it um in terms of like, you know what they may be kind of signing up for. Yeah, you know what, And I'm grateful that you said it. I want to go back to because I didn't even mention gestational carriers or or um syrocacy. Yeah, okay, good. I was like, I didn't even mention that. But some of the other things, like when you're mentioning sort of freezing your eggs and things like that, people are even like men are even choosing to bank their firm sometimes and it's called fertility preservation. And I think, you know, when you start to think about that kind of thing for yourself, it's like, especially if you are a single person or you feel like you're not financially in the place where you want to start your family with having children, then I think you need to just think about finances. We talked about that, but also thinking about it from a moral and sort of spiritual standpoint, like how do you really feel about all of this? I think that's a out of conflict that some people really have. What do you really think about life and where it begins in reproduction? And what does it mean to have your eggs stored? Or what does it mean to have embryo stored? I think these are really tough questions that I don't think people really think about necessarily, and then they're in the process and they start to feel discomfort because they haven't wrestled with some of these realities of that this is a medical process and so it really sometimes bucks up against people's religious, spiritual, or moral beliefs, and so really thinking about that and and where where you fall with that, how you align with that before you get into the process, so that you can make a clear decision for yourself, because again, you might start to feel bullied into making a choice that you don't really feel comfortable with because you've already spent so much money, or you've already done one thing or another. So those are some of the things. So that answer your question, Yeah, okay, it doesn't. I have never heard that aspect brought Aldrica. So I'm glad you highlighted that because I do think, you know, people may have some kinds of feelings about that. But again, you don't ever hear that specific piece of the of the puzzle really highlighted. You just hear like oh, you're getting close to thirty five. So if you're gonna want to have kids at some point, you better go explore other options. Right. So, I don't know that we always get like a full picture of everything that should be considered when you're making that decision. Yeah, And I think people don't realize that they may have those feelings, you know. It's almost one of those things like until they start getting into the process. You know. I've had so many clients come in and almost whisper and say, oh my gosh, this just kind of feels unnatural to me, you know, and I'm like, Okay, let's talk about that. They didn't even really think about that beforehand. And so I think wrestling with that is really important. And not only that, but also really identifying like your support, right, Like you have to be careful who you share things with because not everyone is going to be able to support you, because we all have our own stuff, we all have our own views and opinions about things. But really being able to identify people who are support people for you and really be able to sort of talk through and restle through some of these things you may not necessarily think about, especially like single choice parents as we call them, like, think about the impact it may have on a future relationship, Like, you haven't met that person yet, so you don't know how they may feel about if you go ahead and preserve your eggs or some people even go and get donors and make embryos and store them, Like you just never know how people might feel about that, and are you okay with that? And that's what it's all about. It's about individually really thinking through these things and deciding for yourself what you're okay with. So I do want to add in, Like we were talking about this using the surrogate to carrier down, so what are some of the kind of special precautions and things we want to think through around that. I mean, I think this one is really different because there are different ways to do that in different reasons why you do it. But this is you're bringing in a whole other person into your um process of having this baby, right, And there's a lot of control that you're giving up when someone else is physically carrying your child, right, So I think they're there's just a lot of different pieces of that. So you can use a seriat or gestational carrier with your own eggs and your partner sperm or your own eggs and a donor sperm or a donor embryo. It could be all sorts of ways that that happens and reasons why you may choose to do that. But you know, with any carrier that you use, they do have to have a full psychological evaluation, So I think it's really significant and important to do that. I think they're also really thoughtful about who this person is, whether you go through an agency or whether or not you use a friend or someone offers to do it for you. I think it's really important to really think about the proximity of this person in your life. And I will tell you that some times the proximity may be a sibling or something like that that works beautifully. Other times that as complications because sometimes especially if someone is asked to be a gestational career or a surrogate, they may feel pressure to say yes just based off of the relationship. It may not really have wanted to do it, so that also can be some pressure, which hopefully that would come out in a psychological evaluation. But you also have to have a counseling session with they're called the intended parents. These are the people who will be taking the baby home with them and the gestational carrier present, and a lot of times people are just so old excited and want the process to go smoothly that they don't want to press. They feel like the person is carrying their baby, so they can, you know, just whatever they can do to make it easier for them, they're gonna do that, and so they're not really fully forthcoming with like, yeah, I really do want to come to all of the doctor's appointments, or yes, I really would prefer for you to stay away from caffeine, and yes I really would you know, I would really appreciate it if you didn't travel to a country to Hezeka right now, or I would really appreciate it if you gave me a call before you went out of town, like just being honest with what you would really hope and what you would really expect about the process, because otherwise resentment can start to build as the relationship goes on. Does that make sense, Yeah, it seems like there would be a lot of communication that would need to happen. Yeah, there are a lot of questions and just and then there's the financial aspect of it, of like because often times UM, a carrier or seragate is financially compensated, especially if it comes through an agency, UM, And so just making sure that you don't feel taking advantage of, but making sure that people feel compensated and they're not feeling taking advantage of as a carrier or surrogate. And so it's just it's a lot of dynamics that happens in a personally and there are a lot of beautiful, wonderful relationships that come through that. But I just think you have to be extremely intentional, extremely intentional, and really communicative and always checking in to make sure that you stay on the same page. So I know that you do these evaluations correct, Yes, I do. What kinds of things are you looking for to determine whether somebody is like a good candidate to be a surrogate or justational carrier? Yeah, I mean I think you know, it's a full process. They come in, they feel out a lot of questionnaires, especially if they're going through an agency, so they feel out a lot of information just sort of about themselves, you know, their likes and dislike, their background, their history, and I think the couples then go through and sort of look at all that information and try to match themselves with sort of personality wise. Um So, I think a lot of that is taken care of by the agencies before they even come to me. When they come to me, I really want to do a full, like sort of thorough clinical interview, just really getting a sense of somebody's really their ability to really consent to this process, because it it really is they're putting their health at risk in some ways, you know, and their body and everything. So making sure that they really have a full awareness and understanding about what it is they're signing up for, so their ability to be able to fully consent to this process. You also want to see somebody that wants to do it, not just for a financial situation. There has to be some altruism in it. Otherwise I think they can start to feel resent pretty quickly. So I think there's a piece of that that really wants to really want to think about. I really look at the stability of their lives, their position with children. How many children have they had, how did those pregnancies go, how did those deliveries go? Do they plan to have any more children? Because you really want to be thoughtful about what if something happens and you're no longer able to have children, Like, how is that going to impact you in your own fertility history? Looking at their mental health history, you know, really wanting to make sure that they're stable and able to sort of deal with some of the emotional stress that not only comes from carrying a child to term, but in dealing with a very special type in different relationships. So looking at their mental health history and then also trauma background, anything that may get triggered through this process, it's important to really make sure that they've worked through that, that they have awareness and they have support in their lives to help them individually. Then I also give them a Personality Assessment Inventory a p I just also sort of have an objective measure to see if there's any any mental health or personality things that I should really be aware of. Yeah, so it definitely sounds like a very thorough process that it's the evaluation piece of it. Yeah, it is. It's pretty thorough, But I mean, you know, you still can't predict exactly what's going to happen, of course, of course, right of course, So just so drinking it feels like a common theme that I have heard out of much of what you said today is like really helping to slow down the process because I can imagine, you know, especially if you haven't done this evaluation of like why am I doing this? Like at some point it begins to feel like a finish line, right, like that this is this thing I'm trying to achieve and I just gotta keep running without really figuring out, like you said, why am I doing this? You know, am I really committed to going this far? You know? What's going to be kind of like the when I call it quiz kind of thing. So it sounds like there's a lot of like just slowing down the process and really help when people to think through their decisions that you do with your clients, yeah, I do, and it actually goes against what they really want a lot of times because there's a lot of pressure, like, well, if I'm gonna get in by this because everything is about your cycle, So if I'm going to get in by this cycle, then I have to do it by this date. You know. It's like there's a lot of I need to hurry up because I need to get all of this stuff done, or there's a round of tests that they've done and with the reproductive endor canologists, which is UM the physicians that they're working with. Those tests are only good for a certain period of time, so if it doesn't work within you know, a certain period of time, they have to redo the test. So there's a lot of pressure to move quickly through the process. And so I think it's almost really difficult for them when I'm trying to slow them down a little bit. M Yeah, I mean it feels like, but it's also very needed because of all the reasons that you've identified. Absolutely absolutely, you know. And then I think to like, I think we can't talk about this without talking about loss. Um. You know, lots of miscarriages, lots of laws, and I know you've had a podcast recently about miscarriage and you know, UM surviving that. And I think that also adds a lot to the pressure. You know, people have experienced like maybe even positive pregnancy tests and then losing the child, or they've had failed IVF attempts, you know, in the past, and they're just trying to get it to work as soon as possible, right like, if they feel this pressure, um, And so I think that plays a part in the anxiety of it as well. Yeah, absolutely, I'm glad you brought that up. So I know something that I've loved that I've seen you do before, Drinka is really helping people to kind of develop strategies to be happy, be with the life they have while they're building towards the life they'd like to have. Um. So, I was wondering if you could share some tips for people who are you know, maybe in this phase or thinking about you know, starting some treatments and things for how they can kind of you know, be okay right now. Yes, And this is super important for our couples out there too because a lot of the relationship issues and concerns. I know we talked about like when one person wants to stop another person and doesn't, But a lot of times it's like this becomes the third person in the relationship, right, Like this be trying to have a baby, becomes the third wheel in the relationship, and it's like everything that you do or talk about is all about this. So I really encourage couples to create their bucket list, and that's like these things that they really want to do, new things, new places, things they want to try, you know, just to really fully engage in their lives. Outside of having a child, right, like or because another thing that we haven't talked about is secondary infertility, which is also something that's really um painful for a lot of people. So they may have one child but still experiencing secondary infertility, that's not being able to carry a baby to term or conceive after having viable pregnancy previously, and so it becomes this third person in the relationship. And so really sort of giving themselves a focus other than trying to have a baby is really helpful. And then I think you can do that whether you're in a relationship or not. I think even a single person, you can do that just really fully engaged in your life, thinking about what are some things that I really just want to try, you know, or places I want to go. So that's one thing, and then I keep coming back to mindfulness and staying in the present. One of my other passions and love is yoga, and I recently completed my yoga teacher training and have been weaving at into my practice more and more, and that is really helping people really sort of connect to their bodies and what their bodies do for them, right because a lot of fertility is like, oh, my body is failing me, you know, it's not doing what it's supposed to be doing, but really sort of the strength that your body provide for you every day in the sense of walking you around and um allowing you to eat food, and allowing you to see things you enjoy and smell things that you really enjoy, and so really helping people to connect into their bodies and ground in the present moment and also into the gifts of their bodies and enjoy their lives, you know, and what their bodies can do for them is something that I also really try to work with clients about and even and this is really hard for people, but I sometimes encourage people to even write a thank you letter to their bodies for all the ways that it has supported them throughout life, because I think there's a lot of attention on the ways that the body is failing them so and there's just not a lot of at tension on the ways in which your body is supporting you. Yeah, and I think that they're likely could be even a disconnect between like you and your body after like maybe going through so many medical procedures that it all, oh yeah, like a foreign kind of thing, right, So the letter writing might help this, you know, to even kind of do some connection back to this is actually where I live, the body that I occupy, yeah, you know. And I also if people can't slow down the process, like you know what, like if you've been trying for a long time and you know your birthday month is coming up, why not take that month off, right, like enjoy yourself, enjoy your birthday, like give yourself sort of fertility breaks. I can't. I try to tell people, because you know what, sometimes people, you know, enjoy it. Like people spend six too, sometimes ten years in this process, you know, and so sometimes giving yourself breaks it is needed, you know, to just reconnect with your life and other ways. And so that's one of the other things that I talked to them about too, like would this be a good time to just take a fertility break? Yeah? Probably, you even giving them permission mixed it better absolutely yea. So, so what are some of the books and things that you find yourself kind of recommending over and over? You know, I think there's so much out there, and so this is this is my thing. There's something out there for you, for every personality, for every person who's like I just want the science for every person who was like, oh, but I want the natural, you know, I want to go into acupuncture and I want to do this. Like there's something out there for you, Tobe. But to be careful because you can't get overloaded with all of the websites, all of the Instagram accounts, Like you can be sucked in, but then it can make you anxious about things you didn't even know could happen. Right, So it's like also being mindful of like as I talk about these things, also being mindful of how much you're using it and giving yourself some breaks from even some of the social media. Um. But there's some great podcasts out there. There is Sisters in Laws, which is a really good podcast. It is by sort of air comment like a I can't I'm not McAfee. Uh yeah, I think that's really good. Black Girl's Guide to Fertility Sunhara Eastman, that's a good podcast that's out there. There is like, like we talked about, I think miscarriage and fertility issues sometimes go hand in hand for some people, for a lot of people, So I had a miscarriage that's on Instagram. That's really good. Um, some books just about fertility in general, it's like it starts with the egg. And then some apps for just the mindfulness is there's one called FERTI Calm f E R T I C A l M, and so that's really just mind body sort of self help skills for fertility. Um Headspace is another great mindfulness app. There's IVF Planner, which really helps you keep track of your doctor's appointment. So there's just so many different things on there. But there's another thing that I want to make sure that I mentioned, and this because this makes me think about a different book, is that sometimes people don't feel like they have permission to stop, to just say I'm not going to do this anymore. And there's not a lot of support out there, and a lot of these forms people are actively trying to get pregnant. They're actively you know, and so you're not gonna find a lot of people saying I'm just not gonna do this anymore, you know. And so I have seen so many people struggle and try to find like support groups and for just people who just want to stop and figure out how to live again post fertility issues. And so there's a book called Sweet Grapes and it's by Gene J. E. A. N. Carter and Michael Carter. It is a wife and husband team. I believe they're both physicians, and they talk about their UM fertility journey and making the conscious choice to stop and how to then live your life again post fertility issues and post trying and striving for that. So I think that's also a really good resource for people UM. And then the last one is Resolved r E. S O l v E dot org. It's sort of like the national sort of infertility UM website. It has so much information about just the facts about what infertility is, the acronyms, the medical tests, all kinds of stuff. So it's a really good resource, and it can you connect you to lots of different support groups that happened both online and in person in different regions of the United States. Perfect those sounds like some incredible resources. Than yeah, so where can people find you on line? I would imagine that people are going to want to find out what do you do? They want to know more about you. What's your website as well as any social media handles you want to share? Yes, so my website is www dot Women's Wellness Atlanta dot com. So that's Women's w O m e n S Wellness Atlanta dot com and then you can also find me on Instagram at a Breathing Space for women, and then I am also on Facebook at Women's Wellness Atlanta Cool and all of that will be included in the show notes For anybody who didn't catch it, okay, perfect well, thank you so much for sharing this information with us today, Dr Pete. I know it will be so helpful to people. Thank you so much. It's so it's just so fun to get to do this with you, just from college to now. It's amazing, and I'm just so grateful for what you're doing because I know you're just helping so many people. So thanks, Dr Joy, thank you, thank you for sharing with us. I'm so happy Dr Pete was able to share her expertise with us today. To check out the resources that she shared and to learn more about her practice, visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session see and please make sure to share your takeaways from the episode in your I G stories or on Twitter. Be sure to use the hashtag tv G in session so that we can share them. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to visit the therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory, and don't forget to check out the Therapy for Black Girls store to grab a T shirt, sweatshirt, or a mug to show your love for the podcast. You can find this at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash shop. And if you want to continue this conversation and join a community of other sisters who listen to the podcast, join us over in the thrive Tribe, which is the Facebook group for community. You can request to join at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Tribe. Make sure you answer the three questions that are asked to gain entry. Thank you all so much for joining me again this week, and I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care

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The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
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