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Welcome to the Therapy for a Black Girls podcasts, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. And while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. For today's episode, we'll be looking at the multiple roles we have as women and how these roles can impact how we see ourselves. For this conversation, I was joined by Sarah Elisey, who is a licensed mental health counselor in the state of Florida. Sarah is the owner of Sounder Mind Wellness Center, a therapy and life coaching practice promoting female mental health and well being. She has over thirteen years of clinical experience and is an expert in mental health, trauma, dependency, court and child welfare and non profit management. She is an entrepreneur, writer, and public speaker. Sarah has a passion to empower and help women heal and create healthy relationships and experienced joy in their lives. Sarah has a Baschelor's degree in psychology from Florida International University and a master's degree in counseling from Barry University. Sarah and I chatted about some of the ways our multiple roles as women impact our identity, how to hold on to who we are after life transitions, mommy guilt, and how to manage all of these roles while making sure we're taking care of ourselves. If you hear something that resonates with you while listening, please be sure to share it with us on social media using the hashtag tv G in Session. Here's our conversation. Thanks so much for joining us today, Sarah, You're very welcome. I'm excited to have you chat with us um and I know in a couple of the other episodes we've kind of talked a little bit about mom guilt and like the multiple hats that moms where, but I'm excited that we will kind of dive into it fully today. So I want to start by asking you why do you think that there is such a sense of guilt for moms when we feel like we can't be all things to all people as moms, you know, the world often tells us that we have to be able to do it all um and we have to give up ourselves to take care of our families, take care of our children, and when we feel like we're unable to do that, it makes you feel as if like you're not worth it, or like what you're doing is not enough, and you kind of like feel guilty about not being able to give your all and be the best everything that you're doing. Yeah, so I think you mentioned an important word that I think is typically a trigger for a lot of women, this whole sense of like not being enough, you know, like wanting to kind of be the best mom and the best partner and the best employee or business owner, you know, all of these things, and when we feel like we're not like being enough, that it can trigger some of these feelings of guilt, definitely, because you want to be that person. You don't want the world to see you as if she's not doing enough and you're not a bit of and sometimes you know, there's that inner competition with others where you're like, Okay, how is she able to like be at the PTA meetings and I'll also be able to take care of the household and go to work and I can't I do that. Yeah, glad you brought that up there, because I do think and you said, you know, like an inner composition, because it isn't typically like an outwork kind of thing, right, like where the other moms even know that you're competing with them, But sometimes there can be like this sense of competition. What do you think that comes from? But if it comes from what society says that as a mom, you're supposed to be able to be the best at what you do. And also within ourselves, we have our inner struggles where we don't want people to think that we can't or we don't want people to see us as if, um, we're unable to do things and that you know, you don't have your life together. There's just no that inner struggle that you have and you don't want to see that you're weak and that you don't have your life together. Yeah, So it sounds like a lot of it comes down to, you know, what are pretty much like unrealistic expectations because none of us have it all together right, Um, you know, like nobody is perfect anything, and so comparing ourselves to these unrealistic standers can really set us up for failure. I think in a lot of ways, you're very right. You're very right, and that's the thing that really those unrealistic expectations are what create the challenges and create unhappiness in our lives at times where you put yourself in a way where you can't be perfect as a mom, as a woman, you feel like you have to be perfect and us have to get things right, and it overshadows who really are. So I know that you mentioned that a common theme that had been coming up in your practice is women who like, we're struggling to hold onto pieces of their identities after something like becoming a mom. Can you say more about that, and like, in what ways does that show up for women as a mom? You know, who were many hats as women, we were many hats, and you know they're often overshadowed, right who we really are? Right? So, as a mom and as a business owner, and I have women in a practice who comes in and they're like, you know, I have to give my best to my children, and I have to put my dreams on hold, right, And they feel guilty when you know, I want to go back to school, I want to start a business, but you know, I should be able to take care of my children and make sure that they have everything that they need or their goals are accomplished, and maybe I should wait. And a lot of women feel guilty when you know they want to do things for themselves and they want to work on those goals. They really feel guilty and they have and it really affects them to the point where they're like, and I'm not a good mom, I'm not a good person. I shouldn't be thinking this way. I should be given my aunt to my children. I should be given my all, you know, to my partner. So what suggestions would you have for them to, you know, try to maybe change some of that thinking, or to try to examine some of that thinking that they may be having. I would say, find out who you are outside of those roles. Find out who you are truly outside of the role of being a mom um. Learn what you like and what you don't like. What are your dreams, what are your visions. It's okay to go after your dreams. And not have to feel guilty about it. You know, that's where balance comes in, creating a system that will allow you to maintain a healthy household, a healthy business and career and not have to give up on the things that you want. So I think that that would be a great place to kind of go next, because I think they're probably there are a lot of people who are listening who are like, yeah, you know, I agree with that, but have no idea where to start. Like, you know, there's just too many irons in the fire. They're just doing too much and just don't even know where to start. So like, where could you even start to? You know, kind of get some systems or something in place that allows you to kind of manage all of these multiple roles. For example, you gotta have balance, right so right now on your goals and create action steps that are measurable so that you will be able to visually see progress. You know, we get upset when it seems that we aren't accomplishing anything. You know, set your expectations and communicate them. You can't expect people to know how you feel, what you like and don't like if you don't let them know. Okay, the way you communicate is important as well. You know, I believe communication is an art. It's a very beautiful thing when it's done effectively and efficiently. We avoid so many misunderstandings when we learn how to articulate our emotions to others. And next, you have to delegate and accept help. No matter how much we think we can, it's impossible to do everything on your own and not eventually burn out. There's nothing wrong with saying that you need help. Figure out what you can do on your own, like those things you really enjoy, and then the things you don't that may take up most of your time, assign them to someone else to do. And then next, limit your distractions. Ask yourself, with this add value to what I'm doing right now? Can it wait for later? Use a planner, whether it's paper or electronically. This will help you stay on track and be more productive. Schedule time to read your emails, make calls, and put your phone away while you're getting things done. The next thing, separate your work at home, even if you work from home. Draw that line and try your very best to not cross it. This will decrease your frustration, increase the quality of your relationships with your partner, your children, and also be mindful of the interaction you have with others. Are you always checking emails on the phone or are you present? This communicates to others that they are important to you and that you value their existence. And last, but not least, scared your time for yourself. If you don't take care of yourself and you're not well, you can't help someone else. You have to be okay. First. It's not selfish at all to think about yourself and to create time to recharge. The people in your life will thank you for it. Self care is a world that we've been hearing all lately, but it's important. Yeah, those are some really good actionable strategy, Sarah, thank you for sharing it. I think the other side of the mom guilt conversation because I think we often hear it related to like moms who want to maybe be spending more time with their children and get really upset if they have to like miss a play or miss something. But I think there's also another side to it where some moms really feel like they miss like the business side of things, right, Like you know, motherhood maybe is becoming like too much a part of their life and kind of feel guilty about the fact that they maybe want to be spending more time in their business. What kinds of things might you do to work with that kind of client who might come in saying something like that, First, who would evaluate what it is that you're feeling, recognized as feeling, actually validate them, and began creating like action steps to stop feeling that way. Also honor the fact that, you know, recognize that, Okay, I feel guilty, I'm not you know, I feel like I'm not doing enough or you know, this is not the right time for me to start my business and create you know, goals and create an action plant where you can be able to balance starting that business or moving forward in your career and at the same time, how can I be able to incorporate it all, you know, having time for my children, having time to attend to their needs, and at the same time having time to attend to my needs my goal as well. Okay, so you would kind of start with the clarification around, you know, like, what are they actually feeling? Yes, find out exactly what you're feeling, and recognize and honor those feelings and move towards, you know, creating whatever goal it is that's going to help you to start decreasing that guilt. I'm curious, Sarah, what do you think actually shifts for women after becoming a mom? Like, it seems like there are there's a lot that kind of comes up after you become a parent, right, like changes in your role, changes in your priorities. What do you think really are some of those shifts that come up for women after they become a mom. After you become a mom is like you kind of like trying to get into your own and try to figure out, Okay, how can I balance this? How can I still have my identity, you know, personally and still be a great mom. How can I still be true to who I was before I was a mom? And you know, no matter what kind of training you may get, you know, you don't get like a full training to become a mom. And I was like, yeah, it's like a life journey where you're you're you're training on the goal. You know, you're learning on the goal, and coming to mom bring so many different emotions where like you feel like sometimes you lose a sense of who you were, and that made need to feeling resentful or feeling guilty for feeling that way, and so many different emotions come up because you're like, Okay, what should I do? Should I act this way? How can I balance, you know, continuing to be who I was and being able to balance this new role that I have. So you say something, Sarah about this whole idea of like holding on to who you were before you became a mom, And in some ways I'm wondering if that it's also not an unrealistic expectation, you know, because I think you can hold on to some pieces of maybe who you were, but also have to allow for that to be very flexible and for that to look very different. You're right, it can be a very unrealistic expectation because this is the new journey that you're evolving. You're getting a new role and you're evolving, and you have to give yourself the permission to be able to learn how to be in that new role and how to be and learn new things. And you're not really losing a sense of yourself. You're actually gaining because now you're getting a new role, you're learning new things, and it doesn't mean that you're going to lose who you are. You're actually adding value to who you are. Yeah, like deepening your understanding of yourself and like stretching in ways that maybe you didn't even think we're possible. Yes, because from you learned so many things, like you like I didn't know I could do this, Like you know, you become more motivated, and it could actually help you to reach your goals or even give you more motivation because now you have this new being that you're living for, and you know you want to do the best that you can because you know, okay, this new being, you know, this new child, this baby is counting on me to be the best that I can be, and it actually adds that value to what it is that you want to do in life. Yes, Sarah, and I also think it's important to make sure that we're paying attention. You know. I had a recent episode with Dr Christopher Holloway about like postpartum depression and anxiety and how just all of that can also shape these experiences of mom yils and like how you're feeling about becoming a mom, especially if you know some of those things are in the play in the background. Yes, Yes, because it does anxiety. You can start feeling anxious and it can lead to depression if you do recognize those things and allow yourself to actually sometimes get the help when those things happen. So, something else you mentioned, Sarah was about, you know, reaching out for help, and I think you know, for a lot of like really ambitious, really driven women, it can be sometimes difficult to reach out for help. So what are some suggestions you have for people of maybe you know, things they can share with their partners or other supportive people in their lives that would help them to kind of get the help that they need to you know, be successful in transition into the role as mom. So first tell yourself it's okay not to be okay, But you don't have to say that void right. You have to understand that healing does take time and it's a process and there's no time frame to it. So once you recognize you do need help, it doesn't mean that you're weak. You know, talk about it, write it down, Hearing or seeing it makes a difference. It rings life to how you feel and what you've experienced it. Share it to someone you can confide in. That doesn't mean that you're going to immediately start feeling better, but it's the first step to overcoming those feelings and those emotions and you know, let others know how you feel. If someone offended you or treating you badly, you know, um, they need to hear it and may not change how they act or what they're doing. What it gives you a peace of mind that you're not caring that emotional baggage around. And do you have any suggestions like like more pointed suggestions from maybe talking with a partner, I would say, you know, you have to communicate with your partner and let them know how you feel because they don't know how they People cannot read our minds right, So you let them know, Hey, this is the help that I need, or this is how I'm feeling if we have to go and get help together, so you can understand what it is that I'm going through. Communicate those needs to them, Communicate your emotions to them, don't keep them in If it's hard for you to articulate it verbally, write it down and keep that line of communication open and be honest with them on how you feel so they can be able to start understanding and you can move forward in the relationship and you can start getting that emotional support that you do need. That kind of reminds me of the conversation I had a couple of weeks ago with Melanie about like intentional communication and how sometimes we expect like our partners to be mind readers, like, oh, they should just know that I'm tired from taking care of the baby and should be doing these things that you really sometimes do. You have to be very specific in your ask and in your request so that you do get your needs mad. You have to be if it's that you need them to watch the baby or you need sleep, let them know exactly how you feel and speak about it. If you're tired and you need to you know, I need more sleep, or I didn't like the way you did this. I felt like I didn't I felt like you didn't understand what I was saying. UM, communicate that to them, let them know. Let your partner know that you do need help and I did do need your support. And when you're communicating that, you're communicating how you feel. It's not that you're, you know, telling them and you're dismissing how they feel. It becomes a collaborative conversation where I understand how you feel as well. But here, here's what I'm going through, and here's the help that I need. I need your support. Let's do this together. Here's how you can help me. I like that idea of a collaborative conversation, right, because then it doesn't feel so much like I tell you what I need and then you tell me what you need. Working together to make sure everybody's needs a man. Nice nice. So are there other things you feel like mom should considers to kind of reduce this feeling of guilt or you know, being able to much more effectively and realistically manage the multiple roles that they have. Definitely, you know, take time for yourself. You know it, create a tribe. I truly believe in creating a community and creating a tribe of some work. So when you need to take that time away and have that need time and maybe go to the spall or just go to like a Starbucks and sit down and have time for yourself. You need to get away sometimes and see like recharge. You need to create create that tribe, create that community of support. Be honest with yourself. Try to recognize the patterns of emotions if you have to track what's going on. You know today I feel sad at this time, you know, keep a weekly mood tracker, so you can start recognizing the patterns because oftentimes we don't know what it is that's making us feel the way that we are. Right. So, once you start to recognize the patterns, then you can start working towards fixing things and working towards improving your mood and improving the way that you feel and start feeling better about yourself and about what's going on in your life. Nice. So, are there particular books or podcasts or things, Sarah that you find yourself frequently recommending to your clients. Really it is, yes, Actually I actually recommend the Working Well Self Care Journal by Pharah Harris. I always recommend therapy for Black girls, um, your podcast Dr Joy because I do have clients to come in. You're very welcome. I have a lot of clients to come in, and we actually use your podcasts as homework sometimes and we actually um sometimes they can't articularly how they feel, and by having me listen to that podcast, we are able to process what's going on and I can better understand how they're feeling, and then we go from there. So there is a podcast by Lovey and uh So by my leak Um. She has an amazing podcast as well that I recommend promote positivity. I promote you know, positive as for me sans and UM, I use those and I actually recommend those to my clients and I they come back and tell me that you know, they are working and they are helping them to start seeing a better sense of themselves, UM, start to understand who they are. And also it helps to have them move from the negative mindset and start to UM feeling better about themselves. Nice. Nice, So where can people find out more information about your practice, Sarah and any like social media handles that you'd like to share? So I am on Instagram, sound mound, vous m as well, some speaks on Twitter. My website is www dot sound my wellness dot com. Very cool and anything going on that you would like to share any information about. Yes, So I just launched The Amazing Clinician and it's a network for clinicians. We have an um Instagram UM it's called the Amazing Clinicians, and I am actually creating events for clinicians UM and also clients that we serve and promoting wellness, promoting you know, mental wellness, which is really important. And UM, I just enjoy seeing people get better. I enjoy seeing people moved past the hurt that's been holding them down and actually experiencing enjoy finally in their lives. I love it. Thank you so much, Sarah, thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me dr Joy. Absolutely so thankful Sarah was able to share her expertise with us today. To learn more about her and her practice, visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session, and please make sure to share your takeaways from the episode with us in your i G stories are on Twitter, be sure to use the hashtag tv G and session so that we can find them and share them. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to visit the therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory, and don't forget to check out our Therapy for Black Girls store to grab a T shirt, sweatshirt, or a mug. You can do your shopping at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash shop. And if you want to continue this conversation with other sisters who listen to the podcast, join us over in the Thrive tribe at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash tribe. Make sure you answer the three questions that are asked to gain jury. Thank you all so much for joining me again this week, and I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take get care. M I doctor Actor. I doctor Actor