The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
For this conversation I was joined by Dr. Maria Dominguez, LMFT, also known as Dr. D. Dr. D and I chatted about what it looks like to explore this idea of freedom while in relationships, how you can begin to define what freedom looks like to you, conversations to have while dating that help you gain clarity about this, and establishing a culture in your relationship that can support the many changes you and your partner are likely to experience.
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M okay. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session Therapy for Black Girl's podcasts. Last week on our social media channels, we posted a community members question about struggling with the idea of losing some of your freedom to be in a relationship and who y'all engaged in such a thoughtful and beautiful conversation, So of course we had to bring it to the podcast to talk through it a little more. A lot of people were talking about preferring and wanting and choosing to stay single because of that expectation that when they get in a relationship they're going to lose some of their freedom. For this conversation, I was joined by Dr Maria Dominguez to chat all about it, and we'll dig right in after this quick word from our sponsor introducing the all new and totally reimagined Explorer. It's built for modern exploration, whether venturing across country or simply across town, over various terrains or through rough weather, It's all good. The ford To Sport is specifically designed for comfort, confidence, and a whole lot of style. Ready to explore more Explore the greatest exploration vehicle of all time, built forward proud. Dr Dominguez, also known as Dr D the m f T, is a licensed marriage and family therapist in Missouri, Hawaii, and Michigan and a life coach that is passionate about cultivating resilience in life and in relationships. Dr D and I chatted about what it looks like to explore this idea of freedom while in relationships, How you can begin to define what freedom looks like to you, conversations to have while dating that can help you gain clarity about this, and establishing a culture in your relationship that can support the many changes you and your partner are likely to experience. If you hear something that resonates with you while listening, please be sure to share with us on social media using the hashtag TPG in session. Here's our conversation. But thank you so much for joining us today, Dr Dominguez. Thank you for having me. I am so excited to be here. Yeah. So we have been having a very riveting, I would say, conversation over in the Instagram comments. So we posted a question last week, and our new features help us sister out and that's where audience or community members can kind of submit a question or a topic they want to discuss with the collective and kind of have people weigh in on it. And so one of the questions last week was about how do you maintain your sense of freedom while being in a relationship, And needless to say, the comments section has been jumping and so you shared beautifully, which is why I wanted you to come on the podcast to talk more about this, because it definitely feels like something is happening right Yeah, that that people are feeling that the world, at least a lot of people who commented or feeling that their sense of freedom is in some way threatened by the possibility of being in a relationship. So I just want to hear your thoughts on what you kind of think maybe shaping this kind of a of a conversation and narrative that people are holding onto. Absolutely. First I'll share from my own personal, individual perspective, and then I'll kind of go out. And what I shared in the comments was my own experience, right, because I am in a relationship. I've been married for nine years and we've known each other since high school, so it's like a fifteen year marriage. And I was sharing about how throughout, you know, through those fifteen years do you do a lot of changing, Like I'm definitely not the same sixteen year old or seventeen year old that that met him, right, and through those years, like different changes come and the response to those changes differ. Some of those changes were welcome, you know, it was welcome with open arms and like yes, other of those changes got decided like where is this coming from? You know, who are you? And so for myself, one thing that I realized I got confused with this whole idea of freedom was expecting or kind of anticipating the person's support to be necessary for me to move forward with that. And so what liberated me and my process was realizing, like, the reason we even work is because we compliment each other, and we compliment each other because we're different people, we have different perspectives, and at times that's exactly what I need. At other times, like I want us to be working in unison, but sometimes I like using the metaphor of like being singing in unison versus singing in harmony, And sometimes that harmony is so much more beautiful. But to have that harmony, you do need to learn how to marry that difference together. And so understanding that when I do not receive the support that I want or that I long for or that I anticipate, it is up to me to know how to look inward and understand, Okay, why do I want to do this, why do I feel so strongly? What is it that you know, my intuition is guiding me to do? And how can I do it? How can I encourage myself? How can I support myself even if I'm not getting that support need meant by this particular person, You know, I can reach out and have that meant by a family member or by a friend, or by someone in my spiritual community. And so that kind of what was really important for me at that individual level, and yeah, my understanding of freedom and a relationship and a lot of people seeming to resonate with that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I love this this whole part of you kind of turning internally right and kind of reflecting for yourself, like, Okay, what is it that I am looking for? And so I'm wondering, you know, what can you share with maybe other people about how to do that internal process? Oh yeah, so I form my self and um, I know a lot of other people. Journaling is big, and and journaling in the way in which you're asking yourself questions. Because when you ask yourself a question, just the way a brain is wired, like it automatically starts creating some kind of solution. And when we're writing it out or whether you're doing a video journal or audio journal, like then your brain, you know, it tries to put the pieces together and it it usually brings some kind of revelation to you. And so writing has been very important in my healing and liberating process. But I know for other people that I've worked with or I speak with, using music or using some kind of creative process to express what it is that they're feeling or going through really helps them to be able to uncover that. But it's about like recognizing and sitting with whatever it is you're feeling. So if you're feeling that, like that discomfort of I'm feeling trapped or I'm feeling contrained, like, don't don't brush it off. I know for myself sometimes I'll I in the past, I would just be like, well, you know, that's married life for you know, not necessarily, it doesn't have to be that way. So where is this coming from? What is it that I'm feeling I'm comfortable and really discovering that and bringing that to the surface, because once you understand what the core is, then you could deal with it so much more effectively. So I would imagine that there may be some people listening who are thinking, whoa is this how I'm feeling? Like? Am I feeling like my freedom is being threatened? So can you give us some ideas about like how would you even know if this is something that you're struggling with. Resentment is a very good warning sign. So if you're starting to feel resentment, then that that's probably a sign that yeah, that that there might be some some feelings of a loss of freedom there, got it. Yeah, And that resentment I think can speak to a lot of different things, right, Like I think we've even talked about on the podcast how that resentment is a warning sign of like a needing to typen up on boundaries, or you know, lots of different things kind of pop up as resentment. So I definitely agree that you're feeling resentment. There's a need to kind of look at what's happening there. Yes, And then those feelings we touched on it a little bit earlier, of like of being trapped or even the idea that another person being involved that means that you somehow have a little bit less power or a little bit less privilege. And that's not necessarily a case unless we allow it to be so. And so I'm wondering if there are any kinds of things that you can be on the lookout for, or are there questions that you can ask maybe in the dating relationship that will kind of give you a sign about what this might look like in a long term relationship between you and someone else. Oh, that's a good question, and I definitely think that both of you talking about what your expectations are right, And so I remember some one in the comments was talking about what does that freedom actually mean? Doesn't mean that you want to go out and stay out late, doesn't mean that you want to do this, want to do that. So, like in the dating relationship, have clear expectations, Like a lot of the times when I'm doing my couple's therapy, it's that mismatch of expectations that was never discussed earlier on in the relationship that presents itself later on. So expectations about what's appropriate or inappropriate when it comes to building relationships with people of other sexes, or what they believe to be inappropriate when it comes to what's forgivable or what it's not forgivable, or when divorce can be put on the table or not put on the table, or all all of these things. Even money, you know, like what what's appropriate? How involved are we going to be in each other's finances? Like all of these things and expectations. A lot of the times we just assume that our partner thinks the way that we do, and it's not until we're confronted with that friends, than we realize there's a totally different way of looking at this m hmmm. Yeah. And I think a lot of that pre work is really important because there are some things that you just don't even imagine will come up in partnership and you're like, whoa, where did they come from? And it kind of comes from, you know, not discussing some of these really important topics that I think are important to talk about kind of early on in a partnership. Yeah. Yeah, And I like the the idea of even even discussing, like, what is these this evolution gonna look like, because sometimes people expect that how this relationship started, this is how it's gonna look like for the next ten twenty plus years, and taking into account and maybe even you know, discussing with each other like what does that change look like? And how are we going to nurture support or not when those changes come up, because we we do change over the years, and how do we are our partners so lovingly and embracing those changes? M And I want to dig into that a little bit more dr D because I feel like that is really hard, especially when we ourselves don't always know how we're gonna change, like in the next teen years, right, Like things happen, your interest change, and you know, so the commitment that you made early on in the partnership may look very different ten years in, right, And and so how do you how do you navigate that? Because I feel like in some ways, like some changes are small, right, like you you change your hair or you know, something like pretty simple. But there are other changes, like you know, you're taking a job that requires you to travel a whole bunch when you didn't used to, or you know, like changes that really impact the family unit in bigger ways. And so how do you have those kinds of conversations and creative partnership that allows for both people to to change in those ways? That is? That is such a powerful question. And I faced with that question a lot, especially because of the population of people I work with and and live with as a military spouse. Often a lot of those changes occur because it's part of the job, right. A lot of our service members are forced to go through a lot of transitions. They experience and witnessed a lot of trauma, and there's a lot of like isolation and loss of support systems building up a network, but then you know, being moved to another one, and there is a lot of that sense of a loss of freedom because you know, you might you might have to throw your five year plan out the window, Like you don't you have no idea where you'll be living five years from now, or things like that and so and the ways in which we change and we grow up or um, we may say stuff when we do experience traumatic events that has an impact on our personality as well. And what I found from working with military families, also working with families that go through a lot of transition, Um, you know a lot of uh, the spouses of business women, men and women that need to travel a lot, and they stay home, or they may have chosen to put their career on hold while they take care of the children while their partners traveling all of those things. Then all of these couples have to look at each other and figure out what is still tying us all of these changes happen, we change ourselves, but how do we still stay connected? And that answer looks very different for every couple. But like figuring out, like what what is our bond based on? And then having that acceptance that many of these other things will change. But like you know, our commitment to these vows or our spiritual connection or our attachment bond to each other or our love for this is always going to remain and I've seen that a lot of couples have found that to be kind of what they hope onto and be able to cope with a lot of these other changes in our personalities as a result of you know, what life throws at us. M hm. So I think something else that happens, and you often hear this whole expression of oh, she lost herself in the relationship. Oh yeah, right, So I want to touch on that a little bit and kind of talk through like how that happens and what that looks like, because I think that that can be something that contributes to this waking up one day is realizing like, oh my goodness, like who am I in this relationship? So can you talk a little bit about like maybe if you had a client who came in and said, you know, five years into this relationship and I'm realizing, I don't know what my interests are. I don't you know, I feel like I've lost myself in this relationship. Yeah, And a lot of a lot of times that losing themselves with the clients when they come up and and you know, I can relate to that feeling as well. A lot of times it's triggered one we noticed that we're not doing things that we used to before, or we dropped habits that we used to have, or maybe we were very career oriented people, and then we we chose to um, stay home and and um take care of the children, or or travel for a year with our our partner overseas or whatever the case may be. But there was something that we had as a priority or we were really committed to at one point, and then we no longer practice that or engage in that, and then we're like, okay, now what And so one way I like to kind of reframe it or look at it is, Okay, how do you want to recreate yourself? Who is it that you want to be now? Because the power that we have is the power to reinvent ourselves. So because you know, maybe five or ten years ago, um, you might have really been interested in writing, but now you have found that there's something else that's calling your attention or there's something else that you're really interested in. But again that it's coming back to that self reflection piece is the spending time with yourself and figuring out what is it that I need most now and you being your biggest advocate for having those needs met versus yet expecting or anticipating someone or something outside you to guide you in that direction. Mmmmm. I love that information. And is there a way to really kind of tap into that for yourself. So you've already mentioned journaling, yes, And I like bonding with other people who have had similar experiences. So that's part of what I love with the community that you're building because that question itself, like, that's not something that you know, I've had a lot of conversations about, but then we make these taboo topics open and we connect to each other about that, and then we understand, Okay, it's not only me, and there are other people that have found this way to do it or that way to do it. And so just just finding a safe space, finding community, and um allowing your experience to be heard. Even that process in itself, will you know, because sometimes when you say something and then you hear the words actually come out of your mouth, you're like, oh shoot. Sometimes you know it's that conviction, or sometimes it's like, oh, that's a really good idea, you know, I want to go forward with that. So um, not allowing yourself to to be isolated is also really helpful in you figuring out, Okay, what is it that I need or how is it that I want to move forward? So looking for community and yeah, that also helps you in that process of self reflection because we kind of have some kind of contrast their feedback. So a lot of the suggestions you're offering require us to maybe have some very difficult conversations. Um, anyway, we know those are not always easy. So can you talk a little bit about like the kind of internal work and the kind of personal work you might need to do either to have this kind versation with somebody you're dating or partner with, or even with yourself, Like I think sometimes there's some work that needs to be done before you can be even honest with some of the pieces of yourself. I agree, and I love the concept of emotional intelligence. The way I was raised, emotions were frowned upon. I suppose it was something that you know, it's not it's irrational, like logic, you know, came first, and so like I, I ended up reaching a point where I would emotionally cut off or shut off right and then um when and still in many ways. I'm so grateful for the transition that I'm sensing in our culture, in society in general, but there are still many areas where emotions are frowned upon or they're seen as less than. And so I like the idea of emotional intelligence because our emotions are a source of intelligence. Our emotions point to an area that needs to be healed, or it points to something that needs to be resolved, or points to something that needs a little bit more attention. And so if we're feeling like we're trapped, if we're feeling like we're we're um losing a sense of freedom or we're losing ourselves, that is absolutely something that we need to pay more attention to, that we need to listen to. And I like to talk about emotions being messengers and sitting with the emotion and trying to understand, Okay, what is it that you're trying to communicate to me, Especially if you keep on feeling that emotion intensely or coming to you over and over and over again, try to think about it as some messenger coming to you, trying to communicate something that is going to help you move forward, something that is trying to help you be more resilient or trying to help you have a little bit more balanced in your life, and um, being able to sit with that and understand what you're feeling and what what it is that you need as a result of that, whether that be anger or sadness, or feeling isolated or you know, of the loss of freedom, all of those things. And going through that process was how I came to the realization about you know, me using that support and confusing it with permission. And I realized, Okay, yes I'd like support, of course who wouldn't. But when I don't get it, I can still move forward with what's important to me versus oh, I'm not getting support, so I'm not going to do that. M And I think that that's the important piece, right, And I think we talked about this on the podcast, to just this like internal knowing in this sense of intuition, and sometimes we don't pay attention to you, right, but that really is usually a very important message for us to actually tap into. Absolutely. Yeah, And I think you know that is the hard part of just figuring out like how you can really pay attention to that, how you can kind of tap into what message your intuition is trying to give you and literally just asking that question. So you know, whether that's a journal prompt or whether you have like an empty chair in the room and you're like, you know, what, sit down, sit down chains, or sit on pain or sit down anger. What is it that you're trying to tell you right now? And sometimes you know, stepping outside and kind of looking bigger picture, it gives you that flexibility and asking that question gives your brain the opportunity to try to find a solution for that versus you know, a lot of times we're just trying to shy away from it or trying to numb it away or something else, but just inviting it and asking it to reveal its message or teach you what it is that's important for you to grasp or whatever the case may be in that moment. And I would imagine that sometimes you know, like let's say you've done your own work in terms of your emotional to intelligence and you're paying attention to your emotions and what they're trying to teach you. But that may come up against a partner who has not necessarily done that work, right, So you're trying to have these conversations, you know, you have done all the work, but then this person has not, and so you're trying to have this conversation maybe about how you see yourself changing and what the relationship might look like now that you change, but they have not done that work. So do you have any suggestions about like how to navigate that kind of a conversation. I was like, I saw where this was going, Like as soon as you like, look, it's not It's definitely not easy because just us going through that process ourselves, it takes so much work, so much energy, and it would be ideal, it would be so beautiful if we could bring that that work, that gift that we that diamond that we mind for you know, going through all that emotions and presented to our partner and they're like appreciative of it and acknowledgement and acknowledge it in all those things. However, a lot of times when we come into our partner, they might still be stuck in um, let's just say a different level of emotional intelligence. And so you are having a hard time trying to be heard or feel understood or feel seen. And so it's about again when you meet that like being very aware of how you make meaning of that. So one way you can interpret that is, oh my gosh, this person doesn't care about me, they don't love me. Another way we could go like the name calling route, you know, or we can we can respond to that in so many different ways. But it's paying attention to, Okay, what story am I making about their response? And so if they respond in a way that isn't supporting you, or that isn't here um hearing you, or they might get really defensive, or they might take it um like you're trying to criticize them or text them or whatever, it's about you understanding that, Okay, we're not in a place where we're seeing eye to eye, we're not in a place where we're understanding each other. I see that they're operating from defensiveness, or they're operating from anger, or they're you know, whatever the case may be. But you you doing the work to make sure that you understand where you are operating from, because then that that gives you the power not to fall into into that trap of them being being reactive and like control or manipulated by by whatever it is that they say. And so just noticing like exactly you were mentioning in the question, like they're not in a place where they're able to hold the intensity of the emotion or the the rawness of this issue that I'm bringing to them right now. And if you are in the early stages of a relationship, like that's one thing that you could pay attention to, Like how emotionally intelligent is this person? Like is this person someone who is able to hold and process emotion or is this someone that just tries to like dodge or numb stuff away, Like those are good signs for you to know whether or not this is someone that I could work through life's crap with. Got it? Yeah? I think that is important, Like we talked about earlier, like Okay, what are some of these questions or what can I be paying attention to you? This is something that you definitely can be paying attention to. Yeah, So I think it's also important to kind of broaden the conversation a little because we've been talking a lot about like if I'm changing and I feel like I want to do more in the relationship, like how do I navigate that? But I also think that there is a threat in the relationship, or it often feels like a threat when your partner is changing. Right, So what if you you wake up and realize that your partner is changing in ways that you didn't expect and now the threat that you experience is like they're burgeoning freedom or them wanting more freedom in terms of the relationship. Yeah, and and I feel, um, I don't know how I feel about this because I feel like I'm bringing it back to the self again because then it then the question that comes to my mind is isn't that what you want unless you know it's not. But if your spouse or your partner experiencing freedom in the safety of a relationship, is that not a beautiful thing? And so if you feel threatened by your partner expressing themselves in a different way, or if you feel threatened by your partner changing, where is that coming from? Are you fearful that they may have less commitment to the relationship? Is it bringing up something else from previous experiences? But yeah, then I would be curious as to why your partner is sparking some kind of fear panic mm hmmm, yeah, that panic feeling. It feels like that is something people can really they connect to, right, Um, and I think paying attention to that for yourself can give you a lot of information about the relationship and about like how you maybe both are showing up in the relationship that they'm shifting a little or you know, spreading their wings in a little gives you an internal panic feeling right right? And I think, you know, if we kind of go back to the original question around like what our partner may be feeling, that maybe some of it, you know, so thinking about how you maybe would be feeling can give you some insight into maybe how they're feeling as well. Absolutely so, Dr Dee, can you maybe share some characteristics of what a relationship looks like when freedom is celebrated, when there is this kind of space, like what might that relationship look like? That relationship would welcome curiosity for sure, and so it would be when one of the partners is dabbling into something different or they showing up, you know, with a new trait or a new patterns being curious and understanding you know, what is inspiring that because a lot of times when we do change, it is because of some kind of experience that we've had or some kind of new aha moment or insight that we went through. And so that curiosity allows space for a new level of intimacy. And so when we're able to connect in that way, that's not only encouraging, like UM intimacy at an intellectual level, it's also at an emotional level, and that might even be open to to sharing some of those new experiences with them so that you know that would look like providing that support, even though you may not have chosen to do that yourself, but because your partner is showing interest in that, UM just at least being curious or opening open to seeing what that is about. UM also just increasing communication and again just yeah, exploring what those changes are about what and redefining what the future may look like as a result, because in most relationships, what we envision the relationship to look like from day one is very different from what we envision the relationship looking like year one, year, five, year, ten, year twenty. As we evolve, our relationships evolved, and being able to communicate with each other openly what we see changing in those visions also allows that freedom to be nurtured, because if you can even feel safe, then that that would be goals right to feel safe to talk about and just brainstorm and be open with each other about what we could look like moving forward or what could be represented or lived out in our relationship would be signs of freedom being nurtured. Yeah, and that comment made me think about, like this maybe another important question our conversation to add to your kind of early dating questionnaire, just this idea around, is it okay for people to kind of have their own things going on that have nothing to do with their partner, You know, so if I want to do dancing or rock climbing or whatever, like, does every activity need to be a joint kind of venture or is it okay for both people to have interests that really have nothing to do with the other person. Yeah, and I think that's a beautiful description of what freedom in a relationship could look like. It's two people, two individual people, coming together and choosing to share life together. That choice of sharing the life together and partnering together in life does not mean that we are choosing to do every single activity in our waking moments together, right, Like, I still have my own visions, my own dreams, and my own goals, and I still have my space in which I explore or expand, and I still come together with you in and sharing that life together. So again, like that concept of harmony. It could still be two um different individuals working together beautifully and everything doesn't have to be in unison. And that's an excellent question as well, because a lot of people do think that whatever we do, we need to do it together. And if you're one of the people that don't think that, like that would be good for you to get out of the way from the beginning and be like, Okay, you know there's there's somebody for you, but that may not be me mm hmm. Yeah. So what kinds of books or other resources do you want to share, Doctor d for anybody who maybe wants to read out more about this, or maybe they're feeling like they're struggling with some of this and want to get more information anything that you really love. I um like the book The Dance of Intimacy that's by Harriet Lerner, and that is about you. It teaches you different ways and prompts you with a lot of questions to look inward in a way that influences your relationships. So I would highly recommend that book and then other just general books for things that you could do differently to make sure that you're showing up intentionally in your relationships dot Man, John Gotman, the seven principles for making marriage work, and so Johnson's holding type perfect And where can people find you online? Dr D? Your website as well as any social media handles that you want to share. Yes, I am on most active on Instagram, so that's at doctor spelled d R dot D V m f T so um dr D the m f T on Instagram. I'm also they're the same handle on Facebook YouTube, and my website is dr D th H D m f T dot com Perfect And of course all of that information will be included in the show notes. Well, thank you so much for sharing with us, Actor D. I really really appreciate it. Thank you. It's my pleasure to be here. I'm so glad Dr D was able to share her expertise with us today. To find out more information about her and her practice. Are the resources that she shared. Be sure to check out the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session, and don't forget to share this episode with two people in your circle and share your takeaways with us either on Twitter or in your I G stories using the hashtag tb G in session. A huge thank you to all of you who showed up at the Will to Be Will this weekend here in Atlanta. It was an amazing experience and I'm always so thrilled and grateful to meet you all in person, So thank you. Remember that if you're searching for a therapist in your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic and meet some other sisters in your area, come on over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective where we take a deeper dive into the topics from the podcast and just about everything else. You can join us at Therapy for Black Girls com slash y c C. Don't forget to check out our online store where you can grab a copy of our guided affirmation track, break up journal, or your favorite Therapy for Black Girls T shirt or mug. Grab your goodies at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash shop. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care