The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
Today we're joined by Dr. Crystal Jones. She and I chatted about what sound therapy is and how she uses it with clients, how she has been able to cultivate stillness in her life, the importance of radical vulnerability, and what it means to experience a full body yes and how this can be a great gauge for decision making.
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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session on the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. Today, I'm excited to share a conversation with you with one of those people who just exudes peace and calm. Today I'm chatting with Dr Crystal Jones. Dr Jones is a dynamic anchor into the depth of stillness, trained and certified in many languages of healing. Her chosen path is that of the witness. Dr Jones and I chatted about what sound therapy is and how she uses it with clients, how she's been able to cultivate stillness in her life, the importance of radical vulnerability and what it means to experience a full body yes, and how this can be a great gauge for decision making. If you hear something that resonates with you while listening, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in Session. Here's our conversation. I'm so glad you're finally able to join us, Dr Crystal. I am excited to be here. Yes, you are one of those people, and I think people who are listening kind of know what I'm talking about, Like one of those people that you meet that you are just like instantly curious about and they just instantly had like this presence in the room. So that is who you are, Dr Crystal, and so I definitely wanted to take some time to just hear more about your story and to you know, let the audience here from another practitioner who heals in a different way, because we definitely, you know, have conversations here on the podcast just about the fact that healing become in many different forms. And so you were one of those people that I really wanted people to meet. So can you start just a little bit by telling us about who you are and your journey to displace where you are in your life now. Personally, I have to say you are that person I was literally sitting on stage with you, like, who is talking to me? This is wild? I need to know her more. So I just wanted to say that firstly, and um, and I think of who I am, like I really just think of my essence, and my essence is really a person that like anchors into the present moment, and so that could be anchoring other people, that could be anchoring myself. And I do that in many different ways, and currently the way that I do it mostly is through sound therapy, and then also I call them anchoring sessions where people just we come together on the path together at a certain time and we get into this present moment and really acknowledge what's here, what's now, what's available, and how do we move forward? Truly honoring your favorite thing, the full body, yes, and allowing our body to continually expand into like what this this seed inside of us wants to do. And that's literally all that I do. I think sound therapy really creates the atmosphere for the sales to move into that like planting space. And then once we're a present moment, it's like, how do we continue moving from there? And it looks so different for different people. I worked for the corporate side of it, and I worked for it with individuals, and people just really get in to the present moment with me, and that's really where I sit with myself all the time. I am an anchor into the present moment and how I got here. I've worked in like on the allopathic side. I've been in that industry for fifteen years, for sixteen years, and I just didn't do very well with leaving out the critical thinking aspect of of health care. I know I started off. I would see a chart in the box. As soon as I saw the chart, I was a nutritionist already knew exactly what the person needed and like how much they needed of a certain thing. And I never been trained to like hear anything outside of just what the facts were showing and how I can get you to whatever the standard was. And so I continue working. Moved all the way up into energy medicine, reiki, chirocractic, and those are everything that you know. All those spaces have been really amazing spaces, but they generally bring you to a space of standard so that you can prove it. And if you can prove it, then like the body knows what it needs to do. And I really really really enjoy witnessing how fascinating it is for it to create its own path. And I get to do that now as I'm a little more hands off of people and listening to the facts a lot less and listening to the story a lot more than being able to leave in those facts and saying, Okay, well, your body is expressing in this capacity, how can we continue to expand in that way? I hope that answers your question in a roundabout way, yes, And it definitely gave us a high level point for us to kind of drill down a little bit more. So we will get into, of course, my favorite thing. So we'll talk about the fool body years. You hear us talking about it now and you're like, what are we talking about? But that was a moment we shared. Um. So we originally met at some of the twenty one in Atlienza. I mean you talked about this fool body, yes, and I was like, oh my gosh, this thing is mag difficente. This is what I want to talk to her about. But I feel like you, you know, the words that you're using sounds so powerful, and I think or think that as black women, we often have a difficult time really focusing on so things like anchoring and sing a tune to the positive moment. I feel like they're often so many things competing for our attention that when you're talking about sounds like something that lots of us desperately need. Mm. Yeah. And you know, honestly, that's what I love about sound, because there's so much sound around you all the time that it's competing for your attention and you can do this or you can do that, but like most times we forget to listen to that sound a fin and that voice of and and um or we listened to that voice of them, and we think that voice is long, and we're always wanting something outside of us to tell us what to do, because that's right over what does your body say? And like we can even touch on it now and say, like when I say a full body yes, it's like you have to know what that feels like. And to know what that feels like, you have to think of that last time there was an absolute yes, there was like no way that the answer would have ever been known and it excited you and it made you like jump for joy, and when you feel that for your whole body, Like what would it be like to create a life that was full of that? And then like when I asked that question, do you think of the idea that I can't live a full life like that? That's not possible, Like life has to be struggle, life has to be this. Like just notice the narratives that come up when I say that you can live a life of that same level of excitement that you had when you found out that all of your student loans are paid off, Like whatever it is that like if you could get that into your body, you really could embody that feeling. You can experience that all the time. That does not mean that you won't have any challenges and you won't be asked is this the type of life you want to live? That comes up, like what would it be like to always live and say yes when it means yes and let your know be like a full statement even if it's yes and two percent no, What would it be like to say that to how greatly would you expand your life? And that requires that sound in that voice that comes within and it really does mean tuning out everybody's thoughts of what success or what happiness or what joy or whatever is supposed to be. Like, let's tune that out and start saying, what is my full body? Yes? And can I choose to live in that capacity for the rest of my life? And how would we even start to get on that pair of Dr Crystal m. You know, I think it can be terrifying, But the first step is to figure out what that feels like. And it does, and it can relate to a past thought or you can visualize that that's not kind of what I do. But I think of the last time something was like I always say, like orgasman, I can say on here what I can't failing here? But what was that last orgasmic experience? And you that doesn't even have to be sexual in nature, but like sexuality is creativity, Like when were you creating the last time and you were just like, this is it? And how can you have more of that? So the beginning is to know what that feels like. Because once you know what it feels like, now you have a responsibility. Now this is when the work comes in, because you have to say no when it doesn't feel that way. And that is taking on this level and responsibility for your path and knowing that your liberation means the liberation of other people. So where we get caught in that is saying that if I say yes to myself and yes to all the things that I want, does that mean that other people are going to be hurt? No, that's that's that's like scarcity mindset is saying that like somebody somebody, yes means uh, hurting someone else, That's not very true. That means that the other person starts to have to take that responsibility like you did. You have to teach by example. And so that's where the last part of it is. It's like really dedicating your life to being that example, not just for yourself but for other people. Really owning um that this is the way that I want to move, This is the way that I want to continue to expand in my life. And it takes time because it's very easy to put yourself second, and it's very easy to believe that you don't deserve to live a life like that, especially in the Western world. It's very easy to take on the narratives of everything else around you. Once again, all those competing narratives that want to be true for you. So it sounds like a part of at least the work that you do in helping people to really kind of tap into what feels like a full body yes, is through sound therapy. So I am excited to learn more about that because I don't know And I saw you sharing more about it on your Instagram one day and I was like, Oh, I definitely want to talk to me about that because I don't know who what this is and how this works. So can you tell us more about what sound therapy is and how it works for people. It's really interesting because a lot of people have used it and they've ever had an ultrasounder ever been like like literally Laure's ultrasound. It's very it for me, and time practitioners are very different. Sound is It gives your brain this vocal point and as you have this focal point, your body is you know, it's just mostly water, and water vibrates at different frequencies, and as your body is vibrating at this different frequency, like different things are just opening for You're relaxing in this You're relaxing in this bath because we call it sound bath. So think about getting into a regular bath you're relaxing into this specific frequency that is designed to give yourself like a cellular deep tissue massage, and that's literally what the person is doing. And we do this through gong, we do it through like crystal balls. There's so many different instruments, drumming. I mean, this is some stuff that we've done since the beginning of time, where we literally just focus the mind in one direction and then you're once your mind is focused in one direction, the body just begins to relax and the body only heals when it relaxes. And so as the body is healing through this relaxation, certain things come up. And my experience and why even do it is to kind of give your body this level of reset, and not a reset that I think that you need, but a reset that your body allows so you can accept what you want. Your body is going to reject what it doesn't want. And now that we're at this reset, now that we're finally in this present moment, now what is it that we want to create from this? Because like we're in this life and that which is greater than us always wants to express through us. And now that we're in a vessel and clearly, like we've created this clear path for expression, wants to sound back is over. Then it's like, now what do we want to create? Because we can focus on all the reasons that we don't deserve to create or that we we don't know how to do anything, and then we can always focus on like the future of how we need to control stuff. But like, once we get down to that moment of stillness, you can create. Now is the only time that it exists. And a lot of my particular clients are people that are in like heavy transition, so that could be physical transition, it could be wanting to transition in career. Most of them are wanting to let that wild person inside of them out and they don't think that it's right, but that the inner child really begins to exist in this present moment. And that's why I intend to ever use sound, is to like really unleash that wild wanting to say you're available, like you're here, Like what do you want to do? How do you want to play? How do you want to be curious to life? Yeah, that's how I see it, and that that's my intention. And there's so many different intentions for for sound, and and you said, like, how does it lead to that full body? Yes, if you think of like the inner child, that two year old, they always only follow there, Yes, they always they always feel their emotions to completion and then they're like, oh yeah, like what do we want to eat? Now? They get really angry and get really sad and screaming out and they're done. And like, that's actually what happens when we can get into this now moment instead of like thinking of all the reasons that we can't express ourselves. And like, once we come out of the sound bath, generally I do some like constructed rests where like we're like really intentional about our rest and then we get up and we're like, okay, so from this place, let's set that child out less released, because that like that's the reason that we're in most of the patterns. It's because of that child has never been able to play and have fun. They got shut down at a young age. So is the sound beath non talking? Like? Am I been just with you in the room while the sound bath is happening and then we maybe have some conversation afterwards, or is it you're talking while you're listening to the cell or the ones that I do. There's no talking through the sound. We will bring it in. I like to, and I think it's more for my clinical background. I like to start with like what's bringing you here? Like why are we here today? Why did you choose to like connect with me on my path, because like I don't really put myself out there and say everybody come to a sound back with me. So it's intentional that you're here. And so now that I know what's happening, they will drop it into the body, and so we'll say, like where do you feel it in your body? And so like you just have a present tense of like what is actually here, So drop into your body, will do like some breathing exercises, and then between like forty and sixty minutes there's just pure sound. And it's really interesting because like how I played the instruments is intuitively, and I can hear when they don't want to be played in a certain way, or they want to be played counterclockwise, or let's go to the gonge. Like their body is saying all of that stuff to me, and so the person is just laying there and sometimes like if it's very intense, they can't lay there, they're like moving and doing all the things, which is fine with me. Um and some people snore whatever. It is like, they just have their moments. And then once we bring it back out, after we've done this constructive rest, then we presence again. We bring it back into the body what's really here, And a lot of people noticed that what they felt that body had changed. And then we kind of like go into conversation of what came up for you and how do we want to move forward now that you know where you were feeling stuck before you've moved back. And I think the most important thing that I try to convey by me not talking is you did that. You're the one who guided my hands. You're the one who decided what you wanted and what you didn't want. You're the one who started and stop this. I just connected with you on that level. And then as I'm bringing you out, like I said, it's just more of well, what came up for you, and if nothing came up for you, that's fine. I just keep myself available for the next forty eight hours. And just like any like deep tissue massage, there's lots of water that you have to dre you have to push all of these toxins that came up through your body. And sometimes people just want to be held afterwards. And that's my favorite part is there's like there's firstly an intimacy with themselves, and then there's like this intimacy where they want to be held as they're figuring it out, because there's not always words. It's just like I just want to be hell right now, and knowing that that's okay and whatever continues to move through that process. That's why I have such you know, I leave a lot of time for our appointments. There's no rush. It's just what's here and once now and what wants to be released and expressed to you mm hmm. Yeah. And I can imagine that that would be a very powerful experience, especially for somebody who is maybe quite distracted right or or heads difficulty getting to the stilless that you talk about also where they're kind of, you know, in this space where there is no conversation. I'm just listening to this sound and really, you know, kind of thinking about what's going on with me and you know, experiencing what's happening in my body. Mm hmm. You know, I think a really important part is that you're required to trust yourself and advocate for yourself, and many people don't know how to do that through their mouths because you know, they advocated for themselves before and nobody listened to them where they were wrong, or they were told they were in a safe space and that space was not safe for them, And you know, you always have to hit on the fact that there's no such things a safe space, because like people have been told that and then like adults that they trust that came in and made it not safe. So I think a big part of it is trusting yourself because as you're laying there, there's part of you that's going to say I need to be still, and there's another part of you that says, this sound is making my body move right now, or there's part of you that says that I don't need to fall asleep because this is a thing that needs to be done. And so what I'm like, without giving any instruction, you have to trust yourself. And I really get to see that for the first ten minutes they're really wanting to trust me. Um, and I love it and I'm happy to create that brave space where you trust me. But the big part is me getting you to trust yourself because I'm not going to tell you what to do when I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna allow you to hurt yourself by any means. But what's coming through is when were you told you had to be so? Like when did you have to start adulting in a certain way? Or when did you have to do this? Or when did you have to be quiet? When did like a sound moved through you and you had to figure out how to hush it? Like when did all of this show up for you? And that's kind of what happens at the end when they realize this wanted to come through me. But I realized that like I couldn't because I didn't want to disturb you. And how people that are like generally like wanting to work with me there need to take care of me because they're like I'm too heavy or I'm too intense. They're like, if I move, I'm going to mess you up, and like, no, if you move, I'm gonna move with you. And that's so different to trust yourself as the guide. And it's why I moved out of the industry that I was in because I had to be the guy that had to be the one that was the smartest about the body. And yeah, I understand human physiology and love human physiology, but I don't know more about your body than you do. In this really really really forces you to have to sit with where did you learn that you're not brilliant? Where did you learn that like you don't know about your body? Where did you learn that you need to an outsource to someone with the doctor title to no more than you? Where did it come from? And it's okay, And we're going to play with it until it moves because I'm not going to tell you what to do. But you do know that I'm not going to let you like run into something or like I'm not going to let that happen. And so that's where I think the trust is necessary and mean creating the space, but also like no, this is a playground and you get to be a child right now. And that's where we start letting that wild woman. And that's when we make that decision that like this job is actually killing me and the full body, yes, the two year old would say no to that. And if it's just for this like three hours, it's just for this hour long session. How did it feel to be a child? And do I want more of that? Or do I want to like an air quotes adult more? And neither one of them is wrong. But now you're just more conscious of your decisions. Yeah, and so this sounds like allowed. What did you talk about in you were to this is the concept of radical vulnerability, um, And it feels like you have to really embrace that in one of these found therapy experiences because you know, I am kind of in the space where you know, even if I'm open to it, you likely have done it, boy, and you know no more about like what can happen in this space. And I'm really kind of trusting you to create this space with me. Yeah, I mean, right of the vulnerability is my it's it's newer for me, but it is my spiritual practice that and allowing and just allowing what's inside of me to be true. And there's not like a scale of like being good at it or not being good at it. It's how I bring myself back to this moment because I won't be vulnerable if I say something that's true for me that m M, it might lead to this consequence. And so now I'm already out of the present moment. So vulnerability really makes you be true with what's true for you in this moment. It creates once again that trust that whatever is coming through you is for highest good and you have to always take it back. And I think this is probably something you all do more in your work. But therapy is where did it come from that what I said or how I felt was not okay? Um? And so vulnerability, I think in some stances it seems like a thing that people are trying to achieve and like I need to be vulnerable. I need to like let it all hang out there, and that's the thing. But also radical vulnerability is mostly with yourself first. It's like, do I even trust that the feelings that I'm feeling are okay and that they're enough and that they're not going to hurt someone? Or do I not trust that? And do I put on a facade so that like everybody else is okay, or so that my words don't hurt, or so that my actions don't hurt. And all of it's rooted in like allowing yourself to be like this divine person, like who I am is the personification of the divine that's all that's available. And if I really trusted that I live in fear or what I live in love, what I be stagnant, or what I continue to create, And this is not just sound, and it's when you know I'm doing things like I deal with you at Summer twenty one. It's like it feels like it's this trance of you being enough and you're being great and you being a genius. Like to feel that way for a certain amount of time feels like a tramp because you're so stuck in the present moment um what I call it anchored in the present moment, because most times we're like trying to be better instead of like really trusting that where you are is perfect and that you will continue to expand from there. It's just beautiful to recognize that where you are, which can be a very raw and vulnerable place, is the perfect place to continue to grow from. Like you don't grow from being better, You grow from like being in the moment and fully expanding from there. And I think we just get a lot of opportunity to do that. But it doesn't feel normal to not have to grasp on something else or to find something that's wrong with us too, that we need to fix. And I noticed that at the beginning of working with someone, they're like wanting me to fix them or that's why even what they wanted in practice, and there's nothing wrong with you, it's like where we want to expand from. That's all that I can focus on. Let's hear us down on, however, going to expand. I find myself really fortunate to be in the position to really get to just watch a lot of trees grow into amazing nous as they realized like they've been this all along. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I'm wondering what this looks like in relationships, right, because I can imagine, you know, when you start to orient yourself in this way and really you know, embrace being more vulnerable, and of course the systems around you have to shift as well. So I'm wondering if you can talk more about how you navigate that, like trying to lead more into this space of your own amazing nous and you know, the full body, yes, but also navigating relationships with other people when you walk in the space of wholeness. And I think I need to say that life is flow, which means sometimes I feel whole. Sometimes I feel broken. Like the practice that I create of like radical vulnerability and allowance and all of that is my practice so that I do recognize my wholeness. If I knew it all the time, I wouldn't need to practice. So I need to preface that by saying that. But as I'm in the practice, I tend to attract people who are aware of their wholeness, and so there there's not like the space of codependency of like needing to eat projections or needing to save other people or anything like that. It's now My relationships are continual practices. They're all spiritual relationships. There's whatever level they're on. If they're not to that level of intimacy where we're being radically vulnerable with each other, they're really not for me, because otherwise I'm going to have to be pulled into like whatever it is that you're projecting on me and all those kinds of things. I have to see that. You know, whatever you're saying, it's a reflection of you, and you have to see that in me. Otherwise we're going to fight at a level of like content all the time, and it doesn't really get anybody anywhere. And so I'm pretty intentional about those types of relationships and I love the quality of the relationships that I have. And you know, growing up military was not really important to me to have like a lot of people around me. It was who was around me. Was also interesting about relationships is that they are very intense and they're always burcing me into a deeper practice with myself, and it's easy for me to jump out of that and always want to like be in the relationship with the other person and like we're creating this like code of pendency. It's easier to do that because then I can blame someone else, so like talk about how amazing thing they are. But the truth of it is that create this responsibility where no matter what I'm seeing, like that's what's within me, and like do I want to build on that? Do I want to expand on that? Or is that something that like I want to dive into, or am I do I want to push that mirror away and not work on that? Because that's all relationships are to me at this point, levels of of reflection and how deep will I allow myself to see myself no matter what that person looks like or what that person is doing how deep am I willing to see myself? And going deeper does not mean better or worse. It means I have the control to say that doesn't resonate with me. I have the ability to do that. And so that's what relationships are for me now on every single level. Mm hmm. Yeah, So it sounds like you're saying that once you're really leaning into this practice, then it makes it easier, at least sometimes to choose people who can kind of connect with you where you are as opposed to people who may be pulling you into a cold dipence or a need to kind of be fighting all the time or that kind of thing. It makes it easier for you to make those choices. Yeah, m hmmm, Um, I wasn't. It's I wasn't. It's easier. I will say, there's like just a difference because you resonate with people who are on that same frequency, not better, not worse, not like looking at like, oh I'm above these people, are below these people. It's just you start to like be around people who resonate on that frequency because anything else just doesn't make sense. Everything else. Now, Now, what I have noticed with people is there's a level of guilt when you are you know, operating in a different in a different space, and it's like this all that I'm leaving other people behind, which you're not leaving people behind, You're allowing people to resonate on their frequency, and for you to see it as behind me to think that you're ahead, and that is where the problem is. You're just on a different frequency. You're not ahead of anybody. You're not more spiritually aware, you're not more like emotionally available, like none of that. There's no there's no hierarchy. It's like this is another frequency and and if I allow what people that resonate on that frequency will start to come around. That's just that's just the law of nature. We just tend de fide it a lot because certain levels of attachment and when we look at those attachments and not actually healthy, it's more of like just levels of codependency. Yeah, And so I want to get more into that because I think, you know, kind of going back to the fool body. Yes, And of course we talk a lot about boundaries on the podcast, um right, which which pointimes perfectly with your fool body, Yes, right, like that you have a boundary that I am only accepting things that give meat this full body yes? But what happens when you don't get that full body yes? With relationships that you may really want to keep in your life, like family the first and I think that's where a lot of people in the community really struggle um with, like how do I stay true to myself and like the practices I'm trying to grow into even if I have relationships with people who may not be on the same frequency, but those people are so important to me, and I think it's important to recognize even that awareness that the person is important to you and they're not on the same frequency. I want to sit with this. I feel I feel like I have to be careful with my words because we can just say, well, throw the family out or you know this is this is your family and you need to do whatever they say. Like we tend to like thinking that black and white of like either we have to throw the family away or yeah, and then is that's not if you think in that capacity, yeah, you do need to choose. But the other way, it's like what would it be like? So here's what happens sometimes, I think when we start to be on a different frequency than we think that's the right frequency for everyone around us. So we have responsibility in those relationships that have tensions because what we're trying to do is like drag everybody with us because like, oh, no, where you are is where I was, and that's not right because like I've seen this light. No, that's not it. Like what would it be like if family relationships, your children, whatever it is, whatever that like that court is that we have us someone What if we just like really witness of each other and just allowed what's there to be there. And something that I've learned through some work that I'm doing is like really asking like how this is for me? Not like how is whow is my mom trying to come at me or like how she trying to bring me down or whatever? Like how is this for me? Like how is what she's asking me to do? Or how is her reaction to me? Like what is that actually triggering inside of me? Because we can say that mom is a trigger, but then we don't actually say that next sentence, what is she actually triggering inside of me? And how is that for me? That does take a level of practice because it's easy to just come back and say, well, that's my mom and either I need to do what she says or I need to be like my mom is trash and like think of all of the ways that she's just not good enough. Like it's easy to get into that cycle rather than like really just stepping back and saying, is she actually coming from me? Or is she like using everything that she's used in her and experience in her life and just saying something. It's really it's really tempting to get involved in what she's saying to you, right instead of saying, how is this a projection and it's is my dinner to eat? Or is she just needing to say this? And so now when that happens, then we can get into the point of like hearing well Crystal saying that I just need to sit there and be abused. No, you don't. What you have to do is allow yourself to be conscious enough to make choices to remove yourself from spaces that don't resonate. So when you find that, like the talk is not something that you want, this is when we can activate the school body. Yes, because if you decide to continue allowing it to happen, we can look at what BOYD, is this like kind of talk feeling for me, and then we can also say how can I remove myself from the situation because I don't have to allow it. And I think when we're talking about family, we have these like societal expectations of how you're supposed to act in certain relationships, and you really need to evaluate is that true for me? Am I always supposed to be my mom stomping girl? Because when you step even further back away from it, you realize that if you're not the one she's going to stop on, she's going to stop on someone else. That's not the thing. What she's doing is living out her life, and you get to decide if you're going to be a character in her play or if you're not going to be a character in her play. And that doesn't mean throw her out or anything like that. It just means I may need to walk away. But there's just so much to think about why am I still holding onto this? Because there's some part of you that's saying, I'm here because she's my mom, and I'm supposed to do this for my mom. And you just really need to think and start to like come up with those definitions on your own and in that way, we start to be too humans communicating with each other, not mom and child playing these roles that somebody else made up for us. Like, what would it be like to enter that relationship with our own roles because most times that we're stuck in those family things because they're playing by the rules of society. You can, you know, even with like partnered relationships, you know, like there was one point that one spouse had to do the cooking and the cleaning and all of those kinds of things, and the other person had to work all of the times. That's changing these days because people are realizing we can create our own rules, and what would it be like to create your own rules? What would it be like to create relationship out of what you want rather than like what you have to do because of this person, Like I think it's an invitation for you to start doing that. It may be hard because this person has been doing this all their life. You get to do what you want to do, and you can create these relationships however you want to. You are not stuck in any pattern unless that's the pattern that you know served you best or whatever. You don't have to do anything but taking that responsibility can be very difficult, and it can be very shy. Name. Are you dedicated to your liberation? Are you dedicated to being trapped and something that doesn't work for you? Because whatever you choose will continue to expand, and that's where the responsibility comes in. Yeah, that's very important point. Dr Crystal, This idea that in a lot of our relationships were not necessarily like in the relationship like in the present, we are really just acting out these roles of what we think we're supposed to do in the relationship. M hm, We're just yeah, we're playing the roles. And then when you really think about it, we taught you that, mm hmm. And then they didn't mean any malis by because somebody taught them that. And just like any streamwriter, you can rewrite your story at any moment. It does not mean it's not going to feel like death for you to do that. It's going to feel like that. And those are the people who generally come and see me because they're like, Okay, I did this. I feel like I'm gonna die, and I'm like, okay, yeah, of course, feel like we're gonna die because everything you've known is changing, Like everything that you're doing right now you feel like it's wrong because you're honoring yourself is nothing you were ever taught, and it's going to feel like hill to do it. That's why I'm here, and that's why I'm willing to hold you through it and take your time. You're not trying to get anywhere. I think that's also a thing, especially with a lot of self health and spirituality. It's like there's another end of the spectrum that we're trying to get to. Once again, that means we're trying to get better. Stop trying to get better, and why don't you accept yourself for where you are right now? And if we do that, then we can expand and grow. But if we're always trying to escape the now moment with getting better, because getting better has become a drug to escape the now moment, if we're always on that getting better drug, you'll never be here long enough to create any sustainable change. So what are some of your favorite resources. What are some of the things the books of podcasts and movie is that you find yourself kind of maybe frequently recommending to other people who want to kind of maybe lead more into this practice or you know, could be helpful with some of the things you've talked about, I learned very experientially, so I do recommend highly if anybody's interested seeking out, we're not seeking out, just like setting the intention to find like sound therapy, that's helpful for you to create this space, and that's something that I recommend. I love Therapy forul Black Girls, I love Black Girl, and Home I love Alexael And those are like podcasts that I listened to, and I listened to a lot, like a lot of times when I'm traveling. I really like these three podcasts, and I'm sure there are other ones that I'm cregating, but these are regular because they seem very like exploratory where there's like not this this idea of right long, it's more of experiencing someone else as they're like finding their way. And so those are three resources that I recommend. I am a fan of the Fifteen Commitments to Conscious Leadership. That's a book, and I like it from the standpoint of just even looking at the commitments and being aware of where you are at the time, because a lot of a lot of um this work is just knowing where you're at without needing to fix anything. And I like to recommend different types of body work, but I'm very leary about it because I think people have to go into body work not feeling a void, but in a space of co creation. And so you can do any type of body work, but I think you have to go from a space what am I going to create from this? Like what do I want to create as this person is touching me? And I am also a fan of therapy, and and um, that's a great resource. And I will tell people I looked on many many directories. The person that is my therapist was the last person that I found. I looked up and down, inside and out because I wanted a specific type of person to hold me. And I see her every week. I don't know what anybody else's a therapy relationship is like. But that's a huge resource because once again, like I learned by experiencing, and I think having a therapist is very helpful because it's experiential in nature. I don't ever know where we're starting or where we're ending, but like it's wild where we go in fifteen minutes is right right? It definitely could be a wild ride. Yeah, like how did how did we how did we get there? So like obviously the director for Therapy for Black Girls. It's helpful, and there was also like the National Black trans Queer Directory. I don't know all of the letters because it correlates with the letters, but for those who may really want to and that's where I found my therapist. They want to like have a specific identity. That one was helpful too and really finding someone that you like to hold you. I'm a fan of therapy. I'm here for it. That were probably my number one resource, but from a space of co creation rather than like fix me. Mm hmm, right, and where can we learn more about you? Dr Crystal Wood is your website as well as any social media handles you want to share. I keep it pretty simple for myself. Mostly it is Dr Crystal Jones dot com and that's d R c r y s t A l j o anys dot com, my Instagram handle, Twitter, anything that ever comes out from here and forth will be Dr Crystal Jones spelt the same way. And I do look forward to connecting with people who you know resonate with this message. Those are the ways to connect with me perfect well. Thank you so much, Liker christ I really appreciate you spending some time with us today. Thank you for inviting me out. I always love spending time with you, and so you know, the audience was like an extra special icing on Happen. Love it. Thank you so much, You're welcome. I'm so glad Dr Jones was able to share her expertise with us today. To find out more information about her and the resources she shared, check out the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session one. Please remember to share the episode with two people in your circle, and don't forget to share your takeaways with us either on Twitter or in your I G stories using the hashtag tv G in session. If you're searching for a therapist in your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into this topic and meet some other sisters in your area, come on over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take a deeper dive into the topics from the podcast and just about everything else. You can join us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y c C. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. As a reminder, next week's episode will be the last new episode for twenty nineteen, and we'll pick up again with new episodes on January e I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take your care,