Session 69: Healing Intergenerational Trauma

Published Aug 8, 2018, 7:00 AM
Today's episode features my conversation with Shaketa Robinson-Bruce, a National Certified Counselor and Licensed Professional Counselor in Atlanta, GA. Shaketa and I chatted about the definition of intergenerational trauma, what this looks like in our community, how it impacts our relationships, how therapy can help to heal from intergenerational trauma, and she shared her favorite books about this topic in case you want to read more.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Welcome to the Therapy for a Black Girls podcasts, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy Hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. And while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Ay y'all, thanks so much for joining me for this week's episode of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. For today's episode, I'm joined by shaked To Robinson. Bruce Shakeda is a National Certified counselor and a license professional counselor in the state of Georgia. She obtained a Masters of Science degree in Counseling and Human Development and a Bachelor of Science degree in psychology from Ture University. She is currently pursuing a doctoral degree from Argossa University in counselor education and Supervision. Shakeda is the owner and founder of Open Arms Counseling Center in Atlanta, Georgia, where she provides counseling for women adolescents in the African American community. She has received a certification as a clinical hypnotherapist and specialized training in cognitive processing therapy, both of which she uses to treat trauma and PTSD. Shakeda and I chatted about the definition of intergenerational trauma, what this looks like in our community, how it impacts our relationships, how therapy can help to heal from intergener rational trauma, and of course, she shared her favorite books about this topic in case you want to read more. If you hear something you'd like to share why you're listening, please share it on social media using the hashtag TVG in Session. Here's our conversation. So thank you so much for joining us today, Shakita, thank you so much for having me. Dr Joyce. I'm very excited to have you here to talk about one of your specialties, which is working with clients with generational trauma um. So can you define that for us? What is generational trauma? So essentially, generational trauma is the effects of trauma that is passed down through the generations. It has also been referred to or called historical trauma, cultural trauma, intergenerational trauma, or transgenerational trauma. It affects groups of people. So historically that has been people that have been affected have been Native Americans, Holocaust survivors, and of course African Americans through slavery. Got it, Okay? So people may have heard any number of those terms. And that's basically what we're going to be talking about today. Yes, how it affects us now and what it looks like. Yeah, And I definitely want to dive into that right because I don't know that that's always clear how it is passed on, you know, generations later. So can you explain that to us? Sure? Um, it's so rich and complex and multilayered. Um, it can be passed down through behaviors and beliefs and our DNA and genetics. So yes. So, Um, if a parent, if you have a parent or a grandparent that experienced trauma or so if they were affected by I don't know, a single traumatic incident, um that has shaped how they see the world and how they interact with others, and that pattern is passed down through parenting to their child or children and grandchildren. So if a parent grandparent has experienced or traumatic events or multiple traumatic events and have not had resources or done any type of work to recover from that. It can't impact how they parent their children, and it can be passed down through generations emotionally, behaviorally, psychologically. Okay, And I'm guessing, um, much of the research and stuff that has been done in this area is similar to you know, like how there are studies that talk about the way traumatic experience actually changes, like the neurons in your brain and things are rewired differently sometimes after a traumatic event. So I'm guessing that's what the DNA part is talking about. Yes, So studies have shown that UM when and children or UM someone experienced long term trauma, so over a period of time or multiple times, it can actually change the functioning and operation of your DNA, and that can become permanent and your makeup biologically, and that can be passed down through your genes to your children as well. Got it? Okay? Okay, So how would somebody know if this is something that is showing up for them? It can show up through violence, aggression, abuse, neglect, mistrust of others, and nomine behaviors like abusing drugs and alcohol. It can show up really and how you interact with others and how you view the world and how would you I'm guessing, UM, this would only be through like an interview that you would maybe might be able to get at some of this right, like doing some history around UM, maybe what the relationship was like with parents or caregivers to kind of connect some of these dots. Yes, so UM. There's a screening form I use with clients called the Life Events Checklist, and it UM just acts different scenarios, different questions about specific events you may or may not have experienced. UM. And a lot of times people don't understand what trauma is or what it looks like. And so a lot of times in initial session, I may be taking history and a client may refer to being repeatedly beaten by a parent, and that's been normalized in our culture and society as a you know, acceptable form of discipline in some cultures, and you know, they may think nothing of it. At that point, I would kind of ask them further questions about, well, how do you feel about your parents now or UM, just disaffect you now? If they answer yes, how does it affect you now? Well, I don't like to be around certain objects, or I may have flashbacks about this, or if I'm around this person, it reminds me of when they did that. And all of those are examples of traumatic reactions that still continue to affect you. And so they may not look at it as trauma, and to me as a therapist, puts the word to it and say, well that that sounds very traumatic. And so saying that and pointed out to them in that way can kind of help them understand that it was not a normal form of discipline, that it's just not something everybody goes through, right, right, Yeah, And I think a lot of people, um, you know, unfortunately have grown up in such traumatic environments and like repeat did incidences of trauma that you know, until they maybe get out of the house and start talking to other people, they don't realize that everybody doesn't have that same kind of experience. Everybody doesn't have that same kind of um history with their parents, right exactly. I just thought of an example. Um and Tiffany hates his book The Last Unicorn. She talked about living at this foster home and the older gentleman who was there, I think it was the foster mom's grandfather. Someone would tell her, you know, if you let me suck your preasures, chitties are grows. And she was like, okay, she didn't think nothing other but this happened to her for several years. And it wasn't until she was older and out of that home and talking to a friend and a friend told her that was abused and she didn't, you know, been thinking anything of it. But that's very common in our society that you know, things like this are swept under the rug or kept secret because of shame or and our culture. You know, we don't tell our personal business. But that's how that cycle gets repeated over and over again. Yeah, it kind of also reminds me of you know, there have been more people kind of coming forward and sharing their experiences with sexual assault, right, and um, you know, it has been I think interesting to watch even people online say like, oh, that happened to me, But I never would have called that like rape or I never would have called that sexual assault. Right. And so until you realize and have these conversations with other people, you may not necessarily even call it that thing. Right. We have to begin to put a word who would put the exact appropriate word to it? Right? And So I'm interested in hearing Shakida because you mentioned you know, different cultural groups, like just histories of oppression and awful things that have happened to different groups of people in our society and in the world. UM, I'm interested in hearing more about, like specific to the Black community, related to you know, our origins of slavery. What kinds of things behavior wise we have come out of that that you maybe see with some clients or you know in your experiences or research, what kinds of things have you seen? UM. What stands out most I think is very UM relevant right now is distrust of police or white people in authority, distrust distrust of the government. UM. I have a lot of clients who work in corporate America and you know, talk about experiencing microaggressions because they wear their natural hair to work or um being you know, looked at and you know, viewed a certain white if they are in management and not feeling respected. It shows up mostly that way in my practice. UM. But in in in the research I've been reading, it's very generalized to not trusting you know, Caucasian men or Caucasian man who are in authority or the police, any type of authority figures, there's suspicion, mistrust, or anxiety around these individuals. Yeah, And I think that's really interesting because it doesn't feel like that has ever Like there hasn't ever been a time in history where it's really been okay for us to not have that right. It's like, I think the anxiety is warranted. You know, so if you've started with the origin of the slavery, but even now when you look at the news and the experiences that people have with police officers and other authority figures or even non authority figures who wants to be authority figures? Right, Um, there there there's a real reason to be nervous and anxious about you know, what could happen if this person approaches you or if that situation doesn't go well. And so the way it is passed on now, um culturally is you know, we're seeing you know, videos and images on social media and on the new that kind of create anxiety. It didn't happen to us directly, but it happens to you know, someone we identify with culturally, ethnically. And I remember I just had a client, um not too long ago, had neighbors called the police on someone who was just passing through and the pain this client failed, and you know the need to protect this person because she identified with them. It's just kind of you connect, you're you're, we're connected, and we we feel that pain even though we didn't experience it directly. So there is um what we call hyper arrivals where we're like easily to be thrown into that fight or flight mode, this need to protect each other because we've seen the brutality and oppression that's been placed on other people that we are connected with ethnically and culturally, other black brothers and sisters. And something else that I'm thinking about, um that I don't know that I would have connected to this generational trauma, but I feel like it could be related. Is this whole idea that we have to have a talk with our children at some point about how to interact with police officers and how to you know, have conversations with authority figures. And in some ways I feel very resentful, and I think lots of parents do right like that I will have to have this conversation with my children in a way that other communities don't have to have for their children. And you know, feeling like that takes some of their innocence, but also wanting to help them be safe. Yeah. Um, and I have a three and an eight year old, and I started having that conversation with my eight year old earlier this year and last year. It is difficult because you want them to stay innocent as long as possible, but we have to prepare them for the real world and what they may face as young black men. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing I was gonna touch on how it can play out is historically we have not been in places and had resources where we are financially literate or prepared for building our wealth. And so we a lot of us come from place, you know, families where their lower class, even though they worked hard and went to work every day, we still saw our parents and grandparents struggle. And so there hasn't been conversations and preparations to prepare our future generations for financial literacy. And I think that is tied into intergenerational trauma as well. Yes, And it does feel like that kind of psycho continues to be perpetuated when you see these conversations about old people would rather buy Jordan's than buy stock, and you know, like just really misguided conversations, not not taking into account you know that we are not coming from generational wealth usually, and so you know, like almost being people of any amount of joy that they would want to have because it makes them feel good to buy new shoes or you know that kind of thing. You know. I think there's a lot of context that's missed when people trying to have those conversations and it doesn't take into account this whole generational trauma thing you're talking about. Yeah, so what would work look like, Shaquita? You know, like, let's say somebody comes to you and you figure out, okay, this is connected to generational trauma. What kinds of things might you do with a client to help them work through some of these issues? UM? There are different approaches I take UM and talk therapy. UM one being cognitive behavioral therapy, which teach us the client help client or become aware of their thoughts that they have with themselves about themselves to themselves, UM and just helping them trying to understand or identify if those thoughts are rational or irrational, and helping them connect to helping them understand the connection between their thoughts and their emotions and their behaviors UM, helping them understand the connection between those and replacing those thoughts if they are negative thoughts and unhealthy thoughts, replacing those thoughts with more healthier thoughts or alternative thoughts. UM. That is one technique or strategy. The other one is behavioral activities. Assign a lot of a lot of times, I'll assign homework outside of sessions, UM, and that may consist of a lot of writing about your traumatic experiences or emotionally collect you didn't get or emotionally like you received and how do you what do you want to do about that? So a lot of processing what is being written outside of sessions, and may train clients in learning how to relax because a lot of clients who have trauma histories have difficulty trusting others and have difficulty relaxing. So I do a lot of relaxation training, helping them learn how to meditate, doing breathing exercises, guided imagery. UM, there's a technique called progressive muscle relaxation, and just really helping them become more in tune with their body and learning how to relax. Okay, and I know that you know a lot of times when you're doing trauma work, there is a process of kind of teaching the client how to tolerate the topics that are going to come up. Because I know a lot of clients are you know, potential clients will say, I want to start therapy, but I'm afraid because I don't want to like open this closet that I've been shoving all this stuff into you for a long time. Right, And so it sounds like probably some of those things you're talking about with the progressive muscle relaxation and the guided imagery would be things that you would teach before you dig dig into the closet. Yes. So there's a specific um form of therapy that I'm trained in called cognitive processing therapy and it started out as a treatment for veterans with PTSD and it's now used with trauma victims in general or trauma survivors in general, And the goal is to get the client to become tolerable, into sit and allow themselves to feel because a lot of times survivors are trauma engaged in avoiding behaviors, they do things to non themselves so they don't feel all of these intense emotions. And so the CPT therapy is very structured and the focus is to get the client to feel their emotions, however intense they may be. And over time you see that those emotions aren't as strong. But like you're saying, of first, you want to establish safety and help them build some coping strategies to kind of soothe themselves when they begin to feel those things. So I am also curious, Hikeita, because there was, um a recent article written in Madam Noir um, which is a popular popular platform for black women, UM and articles and you know, things that are centered around like the black woman's experience, and um it went around a lot, you know. So I did think that it was important to talk about because when I think about generational trauma sometimes I also connect that to the sometimes very tenuous relationship between black mothers and daughters, um, you know. And I think that this is often a taboo topic because you know, the Ten Commandments. I know that my mother and father, um, you know, like mothers are supposed to be revered in our culture. But I do think that has not allowed us to have some very important conversations about some of the horn that has also been caused by a lot of our mothers. So do you connect that to generational trauma. Do you see that as completely separate. I think it's tied in um, and I think it may again deal with some type of trauma that the mother or the mother's mother has experienced. When I'm thinking about the trauma symptoms or trauma reactions as it relates to mother daughter relationships, what I have seen is mothers don't show emotion or feel like, I can't have this connection with you because you're gonna think I'm your friends, right, and then you're gonna just then you you think, um, you're my equally gonna you know, want to disrespect me or try to run over me. And so there's this there's this power struggle and this need to you know, to stay in control, which again goes back to a trauma symptom. UM. There's this issue with the need to feel in control at all times. And so you see that in mother daughter relationships. You see the emotional neglect because old school mothers, you know, they feel like you got a roof over your head, you got clothes over your back. You know, be quiet, go sit down, that's all you need. Your child rum. And there's this this common thing growing up where I grew up that a child should be seen and not heard or stay in a child's place, and so the message that sends to a child is my voice doesn't matter, And so they grow up feeling invalidated. But with that, you can also have that child to go up and repeat that cycle and engage in those very same behaviors as a parent themselves. Yeah, And I do think it is interesting to look at this through a trauma lens because a lot of that I think spurred from a survival kind of thing, right, Like, um, you know are rebellion thing like having to have difficult interactions with your slave owners and you know, kind of wanting to be not be seen so that you don't draw attention to yourself, right. And so I think for most behaviors, and this is what we kind of talk about in the field, right, like, they usually start from somewhere that is abductive and needed, but then it turns into something that is not productive and right and not healthy. And we don't sometimes realize that and don't realize that we're continuing to perpetuate that cycle. But I do think it's important even though we know where it may come from, it's still very harmful, right, And so I think that's where I see a lot of sisters struggling, like, Okay, they may even understand where some of the things that mom does come from, but that doesn't mean it's not hurtful and harmful. So what kinds of tips or strategies might you have for people who are struggling, you know, like they want mom to change, but of course mom is not going to change um and they have these very difficult relationships with their moms. The person who wants their mom to change, I would suggest initially trying to have an open dialogue. That isn't always successful because a lot of times mothers, you know, if you try to sometimes approach them with things that you felt like you didn't get in childhood, you know that it feels like an atte And so if the mother isn't receptive to that, I would suggest to the daughter, you know, learning healthy batteries, learning to you know, set limits and understand that you know, saying no that doesn't mean you're a bad person. It's what you need to maintain peace and emotional safety. You know, you have to come to a place of acceptance that they may not ever understand, and they may not ever give you that apology, being okay with that, and being learning to give yourself what you didn't get or identify people who who have given you those things you didn't get from your mother. Right. And I also think, um, I think because people are open and being more willing to share their experiences about maybe not so good relationships with their mothers, I think that there has also been some comfort and people realizing that this was not about them, right because of course, as a child, you don't necessarily have the vocabulary to understand like why mom is treating me this way? And I think that lead to, you know, a feeling like I did something wrong to make Mom treat me this way. So if I'm having other people validate that experience also helps, Yes, excellent, exactly. Yeah. So what are your favorite resources shakida for people who maybe want to learn more about this or books that you find yourself frequently recommending to some of your clients. First and foremost as it relates to anti generational trauma is booked by Dr Joy de Grew called Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome UM. The other one as it relates to how trauma affects our bodies and our attachment where our parents. Um, it's called The Body Keeps the Score by bessel Vandercolt. Okay, Yeah, that's a one that's frequently recommended here on the podcast. Yes, yes, it can be intense and times, but you know, I was just kind of reading it and in certain spirts and you know, take taking a break when you need to god it any others? Um? The other ones is um Boundaries by Handy Hanry Cloud and John Townsend. Another favorite. Yes, And um, I think that's that's it. I can't think of any other ones right off the top of my head. Okay. And where can we find you, Shakida? I'm sure people will want to ask you more questions after they hear the episode and get involved with whatever you have going on? Where can we find you online? In any social media handles you want to share? Um? My Facebook business page is at Open Arms Counseling Center and my website is www dot Open Arms Counseling Center dot com. Okay, And anything going on that you want to share with people any um, like workbooks are workshops you're having soon? No? Not yet? Okay. So people can stay tuned and stay connected with you on Facebook if they want to learn more about that. Yes, definitely perfect perfect. Well, thank you so much for chatting with us today, Shakeia, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I am so grateful. Thank you. I'm so thankful Shakida was able to share her expertise with us today. You can find more information about the books she suggested and her practice in the show notes. You can find those at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session sixty nine. And we also love it if you made sure to share this episode with two people in your life, or you can share your takeaways from the episode with us in your Instagram stories. Make sure to use the hashtag tv G in session. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to visit the therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And don't forget that the tb G merch store is now open, so if you want to have a T shirt or a mug to show your love for the podcast, you can do that at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. So last shop, and if you want to continue the conversation that we started on the podcast, come on over and join us in the thrive tribe. You can find it at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash tribe and make sure you answer the three questions that are asked to gain entry. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week, and I look forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. Take get care, doctor, doctor actor or

Therapy for Black Girls

The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a license 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 473 clip(s)