Entrepreneurship & Mental Health

Published Dec 12, 2018, 8:00 AM
For today’s episode, we’re digging into some of the common challenges that come up for entrepreneurs that can impact our mental health. For this conversation, I was joined by Samara Stone, LCSW-C. Samara and I chatted about some of the mental health challenges that are common for entrepreneurs, the importance of a healthy support system, and how to get in touch with your real why for wanting to start a business. 

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Welcome to the Therapy for a Black Girls Podcasts, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. And while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session eighty seven of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Today's episode is a gift especially for my entrepreneurs and those hoping to become one. Today we're digging into some of the how many challenges that come up for entrepreneurs that can impact our mental health. The sense of uncertainty and insecurity that comes up once you start your entrepreneurial journey. It's something that I think folks aren't absolutely prepared for. But before we jump into the episode, I want to share that I've just released my first book, Questions That Need Answers After the Breakup. It's a guided journal designed to help anyone who's struggling to make sense of their life and figure out what to do next after a big breakup. It takes you through the process of managing your emotions in the immediate aftermath after the breakup, all the way to getting back out there to date again. If this is something you can use, or if you know someone else who can, head on over to Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash shop to download your copy. Now let's get back to the episode. For this conversation, I was joined by Samara Stone lcs WC. Since two thous in five, Samara has been the founder of The Stone Foundation, a behavioral health firm in Maryland. As an innovative leader in the field of mental health, she leverages her twenty years of experience to develop business coaching and branding solutions specifically for her unique niche of mental health entrepreneurs. Through her work with be Brand Confidence, Samara is the perfect balance of compassion and accountability, offering its sightful strategy while nurturing the emotional resilience needed to approach entrepreneurship with the confidence to take inspired action. Samara and I chatted about some of the mental health challenges that are common for entrepreneurs, the importance of a healthy support system, and how to get in touch with your real why for wanting to start a business. If you hear something while listening that really resonates with you, be sure to share with us on social media use in the hashtag tb G in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today tomorrow. I am so glad to be here. Dr Joy, I am too. You know, we have been talking. We are in a variety of Facebook groups and such together and on this entrepreneurship journey together, and your conversation, I think is always you always have such depth I think in reflection to conversation. So I'm happy to have you here because I know that a lot of people in the audience are entrepreneurs or they're thinking about starting a business. But like we've talked about, sometimes you don't always think about all of the mental health stuff that can come up when you're trying to start a business. Absolutely absolutely, and I think you know, having been in business for almost fourteen years, I have seen all sides of this thing. I bet you have. So can you start by telling us maybe some of the common mental health challenges that often surprised entrepreneurs, like things that they just weren't even expecting that kind of hit them. Yeah. Yeah, I think really the sense of uncertainty and insecurity that comes up once you start your entrepreneurial journey, it's something that I think folks aren't absolutely prepared for. Right. Um, once you enter the world of entrepreneurship and you start to create a business for yourself, there are so many decisions that you're gonna need to make, not only about how you're going to create your business and what you're gonna do, but how to properly fund the business, or where to go to market it, or how you want to show up and so all of these things kind of cause you to look at yourself from a real kind of transparent and vulnerable space, and I think if we're not ready for that, that part can be very very surprising. I think also the sense of anxiety that comes up for folks around this perfectionism and expectation, you know, really feeling like these ideas that you have for what you want to do in your business, that these things should be manifesting in ninety days. I should have the perfect business that I want to create for myself, and I think that starts to give people a lot of pressure. And I see people struggling through with feeling good enough and wondering whether they have what it takes to be in business, when actually this is kind of a natural process of developing and growing, and I think that piece is surprising to them. So where do you think some of that comes from? Somewhere? Like how do you think entrepreneurship itself unnerved some of that in us? You know, it's a few things that I think about. This is an interesting question for me because I think a part of the problem when we see what it looks like to be in business, it's through the filter of people that are marketing their business, and so they're showing you their absolute best self. They're giving you this view of the way that they roll, in the way that their business is structured, in the way that they set things up so that they can kind of attract people to their businesses. But it creates like this artificial perspective of what it actually looks like to be in business for themselves. It kind of glamorizes this entrepreneur lifestyle. And so when folks are thinking about, well, I want financial freedom, and I to be in command of my time, and I want to be able to make my own choices and not feel like I have to be beholden to someone else. The lure of that type of freedom it draws people in. But there's this other side of it that I think that is not well discussed, and so I think the comparison that people have of seeing what folks that are in business for themselves put out there and then what the real experience of it is different. I also think too, that when you're working for someone, you can show up in your unique role, whatever that role is, and comfortably on that space. You've got the expertise, you've got the experience, the credentials, whatever, the personality to be able to fill the capacity that you have in the workplace. But suddenly, once you become an entrepreneur, you have to be adept at wearing all those hats, and so you start to see maybe the places where you're not as strong. Maybe there's a lot of accounting stuff that you don't understand, or maybe marketing things you don't understand. And so we are not only being made present to these areas where we might have some deficits, but we're also kind of responsible for making those things happen, and it can put a lot of pressure on folks, It really can. Yeah, that's a key word. I think you touched on their the idea of responsibility, right, Like, it's not just okay, I need to be to work on time and feel out my reports on time and all that stuff. Now you're responsible for everything, every single thing, Even the things that you don't think of as being a part of business are now part of your responsibility, right right, So we we come to entrepreneurship because we want to maybe do the work. Like there's this book called e Meth where the woman talks about how great she was at making pies. She loved making pies. The pie making part was great. Well, once she got into the fullness of being in business as a pie maker, it was like, oh wait, I gotta work about marketing demands and I gotta figure out how many pies to create to keep this audience satisfied and write all of the other moving parts that are not the thing we signed up for. But we don't get to do the thing we love unless we manage the thing that we're responsible for. Right, piece, I think creates it creates a real challenge for people as they're moving in and I feel like for entrepreneurs too, it takes a lot of discipline to do the things that you don't want to do right. But because you've got to be able to do them, there's no supervisor standing over you requiring you to do them. But your business will suffer, just like a baby would suffer if you don't take care of it. Your business will suffer if you're not taking care of these elements. And so it can be a lot of pressure to do things you don't like doing. And you're like, wait a minute, I signed up for freedom and flexibility, which you mean I got do some stuff I don't like doing. Right, It's like, yeah, you do exactly exactly. So you touched on this a little bit, but I think that this is not something that I often here discussed when we're talking about entrepreneurship. This whole idea of decision fatigue because of all the decisions we have to make. Can you talk more about that and like some strategies for managing some of it? Oh my god, Oh my god. Okay, so dr Joy. The first thing to understand is that some of the decisions you just have to make in order to be in business for yourself. And because we're ill equipped, we don't understand the lay of the land. How do you decide from options When you don't understand the implications of the stuff you're trying to consider, you don't even know enough to make a wise choice. So then you're in this rabbit hole of trying to find information to inform your decisions, and uh, that's a whole another kind of thing that starts to occur. I think the other piece around decision fatigue is being able to commit to a consistent course of action. So you might have an idea of something that you want to do, and as you get started on trying to implement that idea, you find yourself getting pieces of information from all of these sources and it kind of spends your head, you know, thinking of all these different ways to approach it. You can google something like how to grow a Facebook community and get hundreds of different perspectives. Trying to sort through all of that and figure out what what's the right set for me? What actions do I need to take to really get some results is difficult, and this is one of the reasons I'm so passionate about branding and doing the personal development side when it comes to being in business for yourself. Once you know what you're good at, what you want to offer, and who those ideal clients are that you're trying to connect with and serve, it can kind of create a compass, if you will, as you're navigating the choices that are before you as an entrepreneur, you can make choices that are consistent with your brand, and knowing the brand then allows those choices to more naturally unfold. You can even make choices about the kinds of opportunities to pursue. Instead of trying to do everything all the time, You're gonna choose those things that help you to move the needle in your business in a significant and meaningful way. And so it kind of having clarity around your brand and knowing exactly what your vision is and what you're trying to do can help lessen some of the decision fatigue. That's a good one somewhere, because I was gonna ask you maybe you even have more to add. I think when we talk about like really getting in touch with your why and like what is my brand and what do I want to stand for. I think people sometimes have trouble actually doing that, which means that they can't get to the piece where decisions are easier because they're still trying to figure out the why. Do you have any ideas about or you know, activities that you would suggest for how people can really get in touch with the why, Yes, yes, thank you. I mean the first thing that I'm thinking about when you're asking that question is how important it is that you don't feel like this is something you need to do alone. Right. I don't think that the choices that we make in business, or the clarity we're looking for in business comes from sitting alone in the corner thinking about thinking about your life. You have to be involved with some other folks who can help you to see yourself from a different perspective. Oftentimes, the things that we think we're good at are invisible to us because there are natural talents, there are natural skills, so we're not value in them as much as we should. But others outside of ourselves can absolutely see it because they are able to kind of see that this is something that we're uniquely gifted to be able to do. So I think getting feedback from the world around you is a great way for you to start thinking about what you're great at and what you can offer. I think being honest about why you're wanting to be in business is something that people need space to kind of work through. Sometimes we want to be in business because it just seemed like what everybody is doing, and so I need to have a business too, Or maybe you're in business because you just want to make some extra money and you're looking for ways to do that. Having clarity about why you're even wanting to open the doors of a business can help you to kind of get clear on what you're trying to accomplish too. And sometimes I think we have a mistake of pursuing entrepreneurship without really thinking about do I want to commit to this as a lifestyle. Like you can be someone who maybe has an entrepreneurial spirit, and maybe you are a micropreneur. You've got a little side i'd hustle where you're selling a product or you're making shirts, so you're doing something in addition to your full time gig. Or maybe you're like an entrepreneur where you're working with people that are you know, you're like a consultant of sorts working in a space where you're not a full time employee or anything, but you're able to kind of bring your unique talents to the process. So I think sometimes we are confused about why we want to be in business and feeling like, well, if I'm interested in business at all, that must mean I want to quit my full time job instantly become an entrepreneur and be on my way to being a CEO. And that's not always the truth, you know, Like getting clear about what you're trying to accomplish, that's an important piece to got you, got You? So I think it may be important somewhere to kind of make the distinction between what you just said in terms of like, oh, do I really need to be like a full time entrepreneur and is that some imposter syndrome stuff coming up? Because I think sometimes that may look similar, right Like you can't quite tell am I talking myself out of coming a full time entrepreneur because I don't really believe I can do it? Or do I really not want that? Yeah? Yeah, I mean some of it is getting clear about what being a full time entrepreneur entails, right Like, um, because I think when we're trying to build businesses for ourselves. There are a lot of needs that you're gonna have, both financially, in terms of time, skill sets, all of these things that you're gonna need in order to make this thing go. And it could very well be that a part of your feels like I can't do it and you've never tried, or maybe you have done it and you're like, no, I actually don't like this, right. I think having some clarity about that is super important. I also think when it comes to the imposter syndrome piece, it is hard for us to see ourselves as excellent sometimes. You know, whenever I ask someone you know, what are you're great at? They hesitate on that question, But if I ask them what they're struggling with, they can give me a ten minute tirade on right. And so I think, really, you're right. Being able to identify what your strengths are and make a decision from that place can help you to see is this feeling like an imposter and shine away or is it really that this just isn't a good fit for the way I want to work. So you mentioned something elsewhere that I want to spend some time on the whole idea of like not being in a corner by yourself trying to figure all of this out. And I know something that you preach a lot on your platform is the whole idea of community and making sure that you're working with other people to really kind of do this thing in a right and healthy way. Can you talk more about, like what support should look like for an entrepreneur. I love this question because I am convinced that a rising tide lifts all boats, right, and I know for certain that the supports we need are both in our home and personal life, especially as black women, and also in business. So let's start with home, right. I think that if you have children, if you're married, if you just have a life that requires you to be responsible for something, making sure that you have people in your corner that believing what you're doing and can help you as you're navigating some of these other responsibilities that you have is gonna be key to your success in the entrepreneurial journey. Like I always say that if it weren't for my mama, who helps me with these three babies I have, it would be absolutely impossible for me to, you know, do what I'm doing in business. And so getting clear about what those supports need to look like for you in order for you to thrive is very important. And I also think normalizing the challenges that we see in business, because sometimes people feel like needing support makes them weak. Oh, I should be able to do this on my own solo dolo. I should just be able to thud life make this happen, And that's just not even true at all. I mean, we absolutely need one another if we're going to be able to move through some of the challenges that we face. And so not only do you need help at home and strategies to allow you to work, you also need supports in business because you kind of be around other entrepreneurs who understand what this feels like. You want to learn from people who have already done what you're trying to do, so you're not over here reinventing the will. I really think that peace around support, both in your personal and your business life. It's what makes people seem like they are rocking it out faster and going further quicker because they're leveraging supports to help them accomplish this, and it seems like it's just the one person that's out on the top of the platform. But just like you know, Dr Joy, there are tons of people that are helping with some of the moving parts for you to build what you're building. And so I think folks need to kind of understand that these supports don't make you weak, they make you strong. Absolutely yeah, and definitely you know, none of us can be doing this by ourselves. I mean, you could be, but it would likely not be as successful as it could be, or you're going to burn yourself out, I think, really quickly, trying to do it all yourself. And sometimes it's hard to foster those relationships that are supportive because there is such a sense of comparison and competition that people are going through. And so one of the things I'm really big on is kind of neutralizing some of that and focusing on our shared experiences and how we can support each other because the truth is that competition it doesn't help us. If we don't have to compete with one another, what we can do is kind of be clear about what makes us unique and difference, so that there's some contrast, not competition, not comparison, just a little bit of contrast, and then you can find your own space in the market. And so I think that's a part of why sometimes I see entrepreneurs not supporting one another as much as they could because they are kind of fearful this feeling like if I support this person's business, maybe I'm somehow taken away from attraction I'm trying to create in mind, and that stuff is just not true. That stuff is just not true. Because I think you're right, and I have seen lots of conversations around that. How do you think people can kind of begin to break down some of that narrative that they've built around, you know, people being your competitors and stuff like that. Yeah, I really believe and being beautiful in business, bringing your values, like who you are as a person to the table in the way you conduct yourself in building a business. That's the whole point of building something for yourself that you get to do it in a way that's in alignment with who you are, right And so I mean for some people, if you actually are a super competitive person and that's just who you are, and you need to just go ahead and run that, right. But you know, if you're someone who maybe is more focused on, you know, doing something quality, I know, for me, I'm all about creating meaningful brands and building businesses that are on purpose, where people are doing something that they're really proud of and they feel good about. And so if you're able to really focus on that and then celebrate the accomplishments of a sister that you see doing something awesome, it kind of creates that spirit of good will that we're wanting to generate in a community. I mean, there are so many black women that are going into business for themselves. I mean, we are rocking it out this space that we're in now where we're able to be we were able to see possibility, we are confident in the skills that we're bringing into the marketplace, and we have so many examples of women that are just boston it out in business. It's inspiring us to go for it. And I think that that's a beautiful thing. And one of the ways that we support each other and being able to make that happen is to celebrate and to collaborate with people who are doing things that are similar like I think for me, I call them niche mats, people that are my niche mates, where they're doing things that are similar to what I and at the same time make enough contrast so they can see how they would be able to support the work and I'm doing and it works beautifully. Got you, got you something else? I want to kind of go back to a little bit, because I do think it's often like you just talked about how many black women are going into business for themselves, but we also know that black women wear many heads. We are often involved in lots of things, were in different roles. How can you begin in too, you know, do a better job probably for a lot of us of managing all of those different roles. You've already talked about support, But are there other things you think that we should be taking into consideration to really help ourselves to manage. I'm gonna tell you my business really started to grow when I learned how to say no to the things that weren't really important to me. So often we allow others to set our priorities, to set the agenda for how we're gonna spend our time and use our energy and pour out our creativity. Learning how to say no opens the door for you to say yes to the stuff you really want right now. Some of those things we can't control. If you got babies, you gotta take care of the babies, if you got a house, you got cleaned up, you got just some things you gotta do. Okay, some of these basics, you know, in case they no to that. But these other commitments that we're making that are above and beyond and aren't even really what we're interested in doing. We just don't know how to say no, to kill the frivolous. Get that stuff out the way so that you can do the things that you really want to do. I also think setting realistic goals for yourself is important. You know, remember earlier when we're like people feel like, oh, I'm gonna hang my shingo and in ninety days, I'm gonna be making a million bucks, right like, dude, Let's set some realistic expectations about what this is gonna look like so that you can fit this into your life. You know. I think that it doesn't have to happen overnight, but as you continue to make small steps towards what you're trying to create, what you want to build for yourself, you can create some momentum. And so I think creating a business plan that fits your life plan and then being creative about how you're gonna solve those things that need to adjust so that you can make it happen. That's a better approach, you know, realistic goals, being clear about what you actually want to do, and saying no to the stuff that you don't. So how do you balance that because you've already said you know that sometimes other people can see like our gifts and us in ways that we can't. So how do you balance this idea of people saying like, oh, you should do this, you're great at this with the idea of okay, but that's not the business that I want to build right. Um, Now, that's a good question, I mean, because I would be curious about what is the common thread between what people see me as excellent with and what I'm interested in, because there is usually some sort of a commonality that's found in the midst of that. Because you do want to create a business around things that are your natural strengths and talents. Like there's this thing called the Gallop strength finder that I've used from time to time with some of my coaching clients to help them get clear on what their strengths are. Because you want to build the business in a way that's going to resonate with Like how you best work. And so sometimes when people are telling you what you're great at, listen for what it is in there that feels resonant with what you're wanting to do. And that's kind of the sweet spot where you're personal and your professional is gonna meet the place where your interest and then what folks want from you. That's kind of the best way to go forward. Also making sure that it's something that people are willing to pay you for. Like you might like crocheting hats, let's say, right, but crochet and hats, you know, the amount of money that you would be able to make for the time spent crocheting hats is not going to give you the profit margin you're gonna need to be in a sustainable business. It's a nice hobby, but it may not actually convert into the type of dollars that you need to see. And so I think, you know, making sure that what you're interested in and then what's actually gonna be able to be a viable business option for you, there's something to be said for those two being imbalanced. Also, so some are something else that I have been thinking about, just kind of thinking about, like some of the mental health issues that impact entrepreneurs, and I think I see it a lot, you know, just again, like in observing Facebook groups or just paying attention online, you can really tell that some business owners are struggling with things that are likely coming out in their businesses, maybe in the way of like customer service or you know, in other ways that they may not recognize. Do you have any suggestions for that or can you speak to you know, why it may be important for us as business owners to really be paying attention to like maybe we do need to talk with the therapist about some things. There are so many highs and loads that come at you as you're moving through business. I mean the range of emotions that you're gonna experience, from being excited to then being disappointed, to then being anxious, to the financial inconsistencies, like all of this range of feelings that you're going to move through. I have seen people really develop a sort of depression and anxiety as a result of their experience in the entrepreneurial life. And I feel like that there's a need to create resilience for us so that we can manage this this emotional space of entrepreneurship with excellence. And some of it is just being aware that this is going to happen for everyone. I can't emphasize that point enough. You know, like part of being in business is failing, messing up, making mistakes, getting it wrong. And so if we have those experiences and we then become so anxious about not getting it wrong the next time that we're afraid to try. Can you see how that just you know, sucks the life out of your business. And so you really want to know that this is a part of the journey, these emotional highs and lows, that is part and parcel of what this is going to look like. And then I think to address it as being able to talk honestly with at least one person, at least one person that you can say, this is what I'm going through, this is what I'm experiencing. And I think that's where therapists can be very helpful, because even if the therapist is not herself an entrepreneur, they can recognize the emotional arc that you're going through with this entrepreneurial trauma, right because every time something happens in your business, it can be a sort of traumatization. If you had a certain expectation of the way you wanted things to go and then it doesn't. Helping you to process that disappointment in a healthy way and then be resilient enough to try again. That's a role that both good friends and therapists can I love that. I love that. M m mmmmm. You know what else too? I think that I have always been someone that journals, like from the very beginning when I launched my business. And I was five months pregnant when I opened my business. It's kind of crazy how all that started happening, But I remember feeling so out of sorts, like there was so much I didn't know, and there were so many things I was trying to figure out quickly to get this thing going. And I started journaling, like I would write about my feelings. And then over the years, as I would go back, I can recognize the patterns in the emotional experience. So although the situation might change, the emotional experience of growing a business remains the same. So making your first thousand dollars in business to get into making a million in business, it's gonna take you on a similar emotional arc. Although the game gets more complex, is still the same game. So you can learn how to be resilient by using some of the same strategies that worked, you know, to help you man manage your emotions when it was small. Keep using those same strategies to manage your emotions as it gets bigger. Got it? And something else you mentioned again kind of going back to Facebook, Like you've made a post a couple of weeks ago about the fact that a lot of us are experiencing stress related to starting our businesses because there's no real blueprint for the kinds of businesses we're building, right, I mean, you know, I think there's a blueprint for like if you want to have a fast food franchise, or if you want to do certain things, you know, but even for myself, like building a business around like a podcast and a directory and all of these things, Like it does feel very much like, Okay, who can help me to figure out what I'm doing here? Right as trailblazers don't have templates. Trailblazers do not have templates. When you're doing something unique, you really do have to follow your intuition and trust your path because it may not look like the path that others have left. You know. One of the things I remember hearing from Oprah years ago she was talking about how initially she felt herself to be in competition with the Donna Hue Show. Right now, this is I'm really dating myself back in the ad, but you know, she really felt herself to be in competition, and she said it wasn't until she stopped focusing on him and just started paying attention to run in her own race that she started to find the kind of success that she was hoping to accomplish. And so I really think that um, as a business owner, you have the beautiful responsibility of creating something that is unique and specific to who you are and what you want to do. And it is disconcerting at times because you don't have the certainty to know that every choice you're making is the right one. But what you can trust is that if you continue to move forward in a way that's an alignment with your values, in a way that's an alignment with the vision that you have for what you're wanting to do, that you're gonna keep getting closer and closer and closer to this vision for the business that you are building. And I think you know, treating your business, you know, love her, love that business, because she's growing right alongside you, she's maturing you as she's maturing, and so I oftentimes have a relationship with my business where I try to respect the things that she's capable of, you know, like that as she got stronger and stronger. You know. The first business I had was a private practice, and once that became a group practice and we started getting contracts, like, I could see that the business itself was getting stronger. And so every time I'm growing to another level, I just really am clear about being grateful for what's been created already and letting that serve as the jump off spot for the next level that we're trying to move towards. So wonderful somewhere. Thank you. And I still love the way that you talk about business because I think sometimes you know, when we're looking for like business coaches to help us, and you know, it often feels very aggressive to me, you know, like they are these things that you gotta do and stop doing this, and yeah, it doesn't have to be that. Like I feel like you have given us like a very different framework for how you can actually grow for yourself and grow your business in a way that really fits for you. Be beautiful in business, Be beautiful in business, and I believe that even when it comes to things like customer service and support. You know, sometimes people have an antagonistic relationship with their clients, like these clients always calling me your clients like, you know, I understand it's frustrating, but build some systems and your customer service so that you know you're not overwhelmed with the continual, you know, issues that people are haven't. But I think that when we don't approach business in a way that resonates with our values, then we're getting into problem spots. And you're right trying to find a business coach or someone to help you grow your business when y'all are not a values match, that's just not a good idea because they're gonna help you build something that's not in alignment with who you are, right mm hmmm mmmmm. I love it. I love seeing black women in particular create businesses for themselves. Our daughters are watching us, They're watching us and thinking possibility. I know, my baby girl does. Our sons see us and respect what it is that we're doing. I love seeing women occupied their unique space in the world and create businesses that are just as unique and creative and as beautiful as black women are, and and the things that we're able to do when we trust ourselves enough to try. Oh yeah, you'll amaze yourself. It's possible. Yeah someone, Yeah, I love it. So tell of us where we can find you online? What's your website as well as any social media handles? Sure? Sure, I'm at the brand confidence dot Com for the work that we do with granting folks and helping them kind of get their businesses off the ground. I'm also I am some aarrow stone on Instagram and Facebook, and the thing that I'm most enjoying now is the Entrepreneurs Tribe. That's a Facebook group that I have where we're really helping people get the clarity and the confidence that they need to build businesses that resonate with who they are and and really help them to be creative and creating the kind of connections they need to grow. So I am all about seeing businesses thrive. There's nothing that makes me more happy perfect, And of course we will include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today tomorrow. I appreciate it. Thank you, Dr Joey. I have a good one, you too, I'm so thankful Tomorrow was able to share her expertise with us today. To learn more about her and her practice, visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot Com slash Session eighty seven, and please make sure to share your takeaways from this episode with us in your i G stories are on Twitter, be sure to use the hashtag tb G in session so that we can find them and share them. Just to heads up that next week's episode will be our last one for this year, but don't worry, we'll be back with a brand new episode on January nine. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to visit the therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory, and don't forget that. If you're interested in grabbing a copy of the Guided Journal for Healing after a breakup, visit our store at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash shop. If you want to continue this conversation and chat with other sisters who listen to the podcast, join us over in the Thrive tribe at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash tribe. Make sure you answer the three questions that are asked to gain injury thank y'all so much for joining me again this week, and I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care, actor ter

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